Andrea L. Roher

My last email didn't quite say all I wanted it to say. :)

Anyway, I thought dh was onboard with most if not all of what I was
thinking in deciding how we were raising our ds. But lately (most
likely due to mom-in-law's influence), I've noticed that he's not on
board near as much as I thought.

So, I suggested to dh that he give me a year to "try my method"
(radical unschooling) of raising our ds. Then, if he wasn't happy
with the results, we could figure something else out. He said that
he'd want to see what exactly I was suggesting first, and that if it
seemed logical to him, he'd be willing to give me a year.

The total list of topics he wanted info on (some I suggested, because
I knew they'd be covered well) were:

- Rules v. Principles
- Dicipline/Rewards
- Manners
- Personal Hygiene
- Chores
- Eating
- Bedtime
- TV
- School

Some of the issues are obviously not much of an issue at the age of
ds, but I think they're worth discussing and agreeing upon before
they become an issue.

Anyway, I'm gathering the info for him and I'll let everyone know how
it goes.

Robyn Coburn

<<<<< The total list of topics he wanted info on (some I suggested, because
I knew they'd be covered well) were:

- Rules v. Principles
- Dicipline/Rewards
- Manners
- Personal Hygiene
- Chores
- Eating
- Bedtime
- TV
- School

Some of the issues are obviously not much of an issue at the age of
ds, but I think they're worth discussing and agreeing upon before
they become an issue.

Anyway, I'm gathering the info for him and I'll let everyone know how
it goes. >>>>

I'm chuckling because this is basically you want us to repeat everything
that has ever been written on all the lists and the boards and the several
blogs and several Unschooling writers' websites (most of which are already
linked from Sandra's site). It's all out there waiting for you.

Come across and add AlwaysUnschooled to your lists - it's for littler kids.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysUnschooled/

When you have joined there go to the wonderfully organized Files, Links and
Database sections which includes links to numerous Unschooling and AP
websites (especially www.naturalchild.org for the manners stuff) and great
Unschoolers blogs, links to shorter articles that might fit the need for
your dh, lists of useful books. I wish I could say that I helped set that
up, but it was entirely the amazing organizational ability and loving work
of Danielle!

Also go to www.unschooling.info for both resources, a "reprint" of some
pertinent articles and more links - as well as the forum itself - possibly
more easily searchable than looking through the archives here and at the
other lists.

Alternatively you could just buy a copy of "Parenting a Free Child" by Rue
Kream and leave it in the bathroom for dh - it is short Q & A format, and
believe me it covers all that and more.

Relax, breathe, enjoy the wonder of your baby - your child is 18 months old
- you have at least a bit of time before you have to start worrying about
anything remotely connected with "school" at any rate.

Robyn L. Coburn

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Andrea L. Roher

On 5 Nov 2005 at 12:40, Robyn Coburn wrote:

> I'm chuckling because this is basically you want us to repeat
> everything that has ever been written on all the lists and the boards
> and the several blogs and several Unschooling writers' websites (most
> of which are already linked from Sandra's site). It's all out there
> waiting for you.

I have a hard time re-reading something I've already read, and since
I understand this stuff inately (as it seems dh does not) I didn't
choose to keep some of the emails that would have done him good (as I
would have, had I known we had an issue).

> Come across and add AlwaysUnschooled to your lists - it's for littler
> kids.

Just did this.

> Also go to www.unschooling.info for both resources, a "reprint" of
> some pertinent articles and more links - as well as the forum itself -
> possibly more easily searchable than looking through the archives here
> and at the other lists.

I forgot about the forum... I've been finding info so many places.
:)

> Alternatively you could just buy a copy of "Parenting a Free Child" by
> Rue Kream and leave it in the bathroom for dh - it is short Q & A
> format, and believe me it covers all that and more.

I totally want that book. I'll have to make sure I get a copy soon!

> Relax, breathe, enjoy the wonder of your baby - your child is 18
> months old - you have at least a bit of time before you have to start
> worrying about anything remotely connected with "school" at any rate.

I understand that, but I cringe when I hear my husband say, "MAKE him
pick up the food he dropped at dinner" and the like. I want his life
to be as joyful as possible, and I figured the best way to do this
would be to handle these issues now, before he's old enough to be
truly harmed by the wrong attitude (not that he couldn't recover, but
I'm sure you understand).

Pamela Sorooshian

On Nov 5, 2005, at 12:40 PM, Robyn Coburn wrote:

> Alternatively you could just buy a copy of "Parenting a Free Child"
> by Rue
> Kream and leave it in the bathroom for dh - it is short Q & A
> format, and
> believe me it covers all that and more.

I wanted to pull this out of Robyn's post and highlight it - this is
probably THE best resource, by far, for the "convince my husband"
situation!

It is the kind of book that DOES make a good bathroom reader (no
offense, Rue <G>) because you can just thumb through it and start
anywhere and skip around, etc.

Straightforward questions and beautiful answers - clear, sweet, to-
the-point - Rue's voice comes through so well, you'll feel like
you're getting to have a personal consultation with an experienced
and wise unschooling mom.

-pam



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Rue Kream

>>It is the kind of book that DOES make a good bathroom reader (no
offense, Rue <G>)

**I'll take it as a compliment <G>. Thanks, Pam.

~Rue
http://www.freechild.info/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robyn Coburn

<<<<< Straightforward questions and beautiful answers - clear, sweet, to-
the-point - Rue's voice comes through so well, you'll feel like
you're getting to have a personal consultation with an experienced
and wise unschooling mom. >>>>

While in the bathroom....poor Rue....snort...just a funny
image...sorry..snicker....

But the assessment of the book is spot on!

Robyn L. Coburn


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Robyn Coburn

<<<< I understand that, but I cringe when I hear my husband say, "MAKE him
pick up the food he dropped at dinner" and the like. I want his life
to be as joyful as possible, and I figured the best way to do this
would be to handle these issues now, before he's old enough to be
truly harmed by the wrong attitude (not that he couldn't recover, but
I'm sure you understand). >>>>

Seriously, www.naturalchild.org is really one of the best resources for
articles about toddlers and younger - regardless of future Unschooling
intentions.

Another set of books that might be of interest to your dh are the Gessell
Institute child development books. "Your X year old" series (Louise Ames et
al); although later they do get into the school readiness guff we don't
need, they are really useful for elucidating the reasonable expectations of
various developmental levels, talk about the cyclic nature of development
and the wide range of "normal" (so very reassuring for someone still trying
to "get it").

EG picking up the food is probably a completely unreasonable expectation and
liable to result in more food mashed into the floor - what fun textural
stuff this food is!!! Put a drop cloth under his chair.

Robyn L. Coburn

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Pamela Sorooshian

On Nov 5, 2005, at 2:17 PM, Robyn Coburn wrote:

> <<<<< Straightforward questions and beautiful answers - clear,
> sweet, to-
> the-point - Rue's voice comes through so well, you'll feel like
> you're getting to have a personal consultation with an experienced
> and wise unschooling mom. >>>>
>
> While in the bathroom....poor Rue....snort...just a funny
> image...sorry..snicker....

Let's just call it "the powder room," okay?

-pam



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Danielle Conger

Rue Kream wrote:

> >>It is the kind of book that DOES make a good bathroom reader (no
> offense, Rue <G>)
>
> **I'll take it as a compliment <G>. Thanks, Pam.

Ahhh, it is absolutely a compliment, and I agree that it is the single
best book for reluctant family members--partners and extended family. I
am so, so thankful that Rue put her time and heart into this book
because she has such wonderful, poignant things to say. I am so grateful
Rue put her words on paper so they are available to help us all!

--
~~Danielle
Emily (8), Julia (6), Sam (5)
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

"With our thoughts, we make the world." ~~Buddha

Joyce Fetteroll

On Nov 5, 2005, at 9:47 PM, Danielle Conger wrote:

> Ahhh, it is absolutely a compliment, and I agree that it is the single
> best book for reluctant family members--partners and extended family.

And everyone who wrote (or who's about to write) a bit on Rue's or
one of the other books below, please cut and paste your bit at
Unschooling.info. All these are great, even the little one sentence
ones because they read as spontaneously honest :-)

http://www.unschooling.info/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=43

(Pam, what about a list of parenting books that fit with unschooling
like Living Joyfully With Children?)

Parenting a Free Child
Moving a Puddle, and other essays
Homeschooling for Excellence
Trust the Children
Homeschooling: A Patchwork of Days
The Homeschooling Book of Answers
Homeschooling and the Voyage of Self-Discovery
And the Skylark Sings with Me
Have Fun. Learn Stuff. Grow
Hard Times in Paradise
Fundamentals of Homeschooling
The Art of Education
I Learn Better by Teaching Myself
Better Than School
Child's Work

Joyce
Answers to common unschooling questions: http://home.earthlink.net/
~fetteroll/rejoycing/
Weekly writing prompts: [email protected]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Nov 5, 2005, at 3:12 PM, Andrea L. Roher wrote:

> The total list of topics he wanted info on (some I suggested, because
> I knew they'd be covered well) were:
>
> - Rules v. Principles
> - Dicipline/Rewards
> - Manners
> - Personal Hygiene
> - Chores
> - Eating
> - Bedtime
> - TV
> - School
>

Have you been to my website?

Answers to common unschooling questions: http://home.earthlink.net/
~fetteroll/rejoycing/

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Andrea L. Roher

On 6 Nov 2005 at 4:37, Joyce Fetteroll wrote:

> Have you been to my website?
>
> Answers to common unschooling questions: http://home.earthlink.net/
> ~fetteroll/rejoycing/

I was a bit overwhelmed the first few times I followed the link, but
when I was about to put together this for dh, I couldn't find the
URL. :) So, thanks! I'll be looking at it today.

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/6/2005 4:39:31 AM Eastern Standard Time,
fetteroll@... writes:

Have you been to my website?

Answers to common unschooling questions: http://home.earthlink.net/
~fetteroll/rejoycing/

Joyce



~~~~~~~~~~
Awesome website, and mostly what I printed for MY DH and his concerns and
left in the bathroom :)
It worked, he liked it. Very easy to find what you need!

Jenny
Unschooling in Greenfield, MA
Danny (12-1-99), Kelsey (11-1-01) and Evelyn (5-19-04)
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The important thing is not so much that every child should be taught, as
that every child should be given the wish to learn. ~John Lubbock



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Original Message-----
From: Andrea L. Roher evenstar75@...


I understand that, but I cringe when I hear my husband say, "MAKE him
pick up the food he dropped at dinner" and the like. I want his life
to be as joyful as possible, and I figured the best way to do this
would be to handle these issues now, before he's old enough to be
truly harmed by the wrong attitude (not that he couldn't recover, but
I'm sure you understand).

-=-=-=-=-

Is your husand the kind who can handle his own medicine?

Maybe take that tone with *him* once or twice. Then remind him that *he's* thirty-whatever
while his son is *only* _____. Can he imagine what it feels like when you're only _____?

~KellyKelly LovejoyConference CoordinatorLive and Learn Unschooling Conferencehttp://liveandlearnconference.org


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Andrea L. Roher

> Is your husand the kind who can handle his own medicine?
>
> Maybe take that tone with *him* once or twice. Then remind him that
> *he's* thirty-whatever while his son is *only* _____. Can he imagine
> what it feels like when you're only _____?

I grinned when I read that. Our son is not yet 18 months old... so
I'm sure he'd find it unfair for me to treat him the same way as the
baby... but then again, that's the whole point... he just doesn't
quite get it. And after further discussion, we've come to the
realization that we'd actually do the same thing in handling the baby
dropping food, he just phrases it in a way that makes it sound very
controlling. (We ask him if he'd pick it up or hand it to us --
something he loves to do -- and if he refuses clean it up ourselves.)

In fact, I recently reached an epiphany where I realized that the
whole "trying to say 'yes' whenever possible, getting to the root of
the desire when 'yes' isn't possible, and validating the feelings if
nothing else" applies equally to husbands. I don't think either of
us had a real good working definition of "respect."

So I'm going to try this way of relating to him (without telling him,
of course) and see if in a few months he notices the difference. My
hope is it will improve our relationship as well as give him an idea
of what I want for our relationship with our son. I expect this to
be one of the hardest things I've attempted in my life, and I try to
think of him as a teenager who's trying to "get my goat" (is that the
phrase?) in the best possible way I can. So far I've been only
moderately successful, but maybe that's the best way for me to
"transition" into this as opposed to a sudden drastic change (which
could have a negative backlash).

Meanwhile, I'm going to do my best to get my hands on Rue's book (for
me as well as for him) as soon as I can scrape the money together.

On 9 Nov 2005 at 20:46, kbcdlovejo@... wrote:

> Original Message-----
> From: Andrea L. Roher evenstar75@...
>
>
> I understand that, but I cringe when I hear my husband say, "MAKE him
> pick up the food he dropped at dinner" and the like. I want his life
> to be as joyful as possible, and I figured the best way to do this
> would be to handle these issues now, before he's old enough to be
> truly harmed by the wrong attitude (not that he couldn't recover, but
> I'm sure you understand).
>
> -=-=-=-=-
>
> ~KellyKelly LovejoyConference CoordinatorLive and Learn Unschooling
> Conferencehttp://liveandlearnconference.org
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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> Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
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> --------------------------------------------------------------------~-
> >
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

Deb

Sometimes it is helpful, later on, privately, to replay the event -
words, tone, etc - back to the person. I know with my DH, there have
been times when what he said, how he said it, were clearly voices
from the past coming out his mouth (because I've heard the same
words and tone used in his parents' home). For instance, one evening
when we were dating (lo these many years ago), I had dinner with his
family (not an uncommon event by any means - I knew MIL before DH
and I even met!). His littlest sister (about 7 or 8 at the time -
there's a good 17 years or so age difference between oldest and
youngest in his family) did something, dropped something or
whatever, and DH used one of those "what are you, stupid?" type
phrases in anger and frustration. After dinner, when we were alone
going to a movie or something, I played the scene back at him. He
*didn't even realize what he said*. It was something he had heard
all his life, sometimes directed at him, so it didn't occur to him
to do anything different. I told him flat out I didn't want to hear
it again and that it would not be coming to our house. He's grown
way more sensitive to that sort of stuff and has rooted out a lot of
those old tapes over time. Now he actually notices those things and
it frustrates him when we're with his family.

--Deb