A Few Issues
Andrea L. Roher
I am the mother of an 18-month-old boy (so, I'm a bit ahead of the
game as far as schooling issues). My husband agrees with
homeschooling and is pretty much okay on the concept of
"unschooling", but needs some work to get to "radical unschooling".
He asked me to come up with some information on specific topics to
give him an idea of what I'm talking about and how it would work "in
the real world". I've been to Sandra Dodd's page (very helpful), but
still have a few categories I'd love a brief response on that I can
pass his way. I wish I could just encourage him to read this list
(or a book or something) but he's not big on reading, so he needs the
Cliff Notes version.
Here are the issues I need some help with:
- Discipline/Rewards: I know the answer is "No" but I need a but
more than that to give him.
- Personal Hygiene
- Manners
I also know that modeling is the way the last two work, but again,
that's not enough for hubby. Life examples are also welcome, but
more importantly, he needs the theory, I think.
Thanks in advance for any help you're able to provide. Feel free to
email me off-list if you either don't want your information public or
feel that it won't be of benefit to others besides me. :)
game as far as schooling issues). My husband agrees with
homeschooling and is pretty much okay on the concept of
"unschooling", but needs some work to get to "radical unschooling".
He asked me to come up with some information on specific topics to
give him an idea of what I'm talking about and how it would work "in
the real world". I've been to Sandra Dodd's page (very helpful), but
still have a few categories I'd love a brief response on that I can
pass his way. I wish I could just encourage him to read this list
(or a book or something) but he's not big on reading, so he needs the
Cliff Notes version.
Here are the issues I need some help with:
- Discipline/Rewards: I know the answer is "No" but I need a but
more than that to give him.
- Personal Hygiene
- Manners
I also know that modeling is the way the last two work, but again,
that's not enough for hubby. Life examples are also welcome, but
more importantly, he needs the theory, I think.
Thanks in advance for any help you're able to provide. Feel free to
email me off-list if you either don't want your information public or
feel that it won't be of benefit to others besides me. :)
Angela
- Discipline/Rewards: I know the answer is "No" but I need a but more than
that to give him.
- Personal Hygiene
- Manners
-----
The discipline/rewards issue I find hard to address without a specific issue
to talk about, (love alfie Kohn's book "Punished by Rewards") but if you
start now living by principles instead of rules, taking time to explain
things in terms your child can understand, and by being respectful of
others, your child, and yourself, you will find that you won't need to
discipline or reward your child for their behavior. Make it easy for them
to do the right thing. Be with them and help them to make good choices.
When my children were small they loved baths. As they go older, it became
more of a chore to have a bath because the bath took time out from other fun
things. My kids can get away with a bath every 5 to 7 days now without
smelling noticably bad or having hair so tangly that it is a pain. They can
go longer in the summer when we swim often. The best motivation to bathe
has come from smelling other people who need a bath. :) They don't want to
smell that bad and I warn them when they are getting kind of ripe. As much
as they'd rather not bathe, they rather not smell bad even worse, so they
bathe.
Teeth brushing was never a big issue for us. When the kids didn't want to do
it, I just brought the brush to them and did it for them where ever they
were playing. It wasn't so much that they didn't want clean teeth as it was
that they didn't want to take the time out to brush them.
Manners...hmm. Kids really learn these by example. If you are polite, your
children will learn to be polite. It drives me nuts now when people
interupt kids to tell them to say please or thank you, even though I did it
when my kids were small. (I've learned a lot) You can ask something nicely
without saying please. Just the other day dh told one of the kids to say
please even though they asked for something quite politely. But he didn't
say thank you after eating the dinner I cooked and served. :)
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
that to give him.
- Personal Hygiene
- Manners
-----
The discipline/rewards issue I find hard to address without a specific issue
to talk about, (love alfie Kohn's book "Punished by Rewards") but if you
start now living by principles instead of rules, taking time to explain
things in terms your child can understand, and by being respectful of
others, your child, and yourself, you will find that you won't need to
discipline or reward your child for their behavior. Make it easy for them
to do the right thing. Be with them and help them to make good choices.
When my children were small they loved baths. As they go older, it became
more of a chore to have a bath because the bath took time out from other fun
things. My kids can get away with a bath every 5 to 7 days now without
smelling noticably bad or having hair so tangly that it is a pain. They can
go longer in the summer when we swim often. The best motivation to bathe
has come from smelling other people who need a bath. :) They don't want to
smell that bad and I warn them when they are getting kind of ripe. As much
as they'd rather not bathe, they rather not smell bad even worse, so they
bathe.
Teeth brushing was never a big issue for us. When the kids didn't want to do
it, I just brought the brush to them and did it for them where ever they
were playing. It wasn't so much that they didn't want clean teeth as it was
that they didn't want to take the time out to brush them.
Manners...hmm. Kids really learn these by example. If you are polite, your
children will learn to be polite. It drives me nuts now when people
interupt kids to tell them to say please or thank you, even though I did it
when my kids were small. (I've learned a lot) You can ask something nicely
without saying please. Just the other day dh told one of the kids to say
please even though they asked for something quite politely. But he didn't
say thank you after eating the dinner I cooked and served. :)
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/5/2005 3:06:11 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
evenstar75@... writes:
Discipline/Rewards: I know the answer is "No" but I need a but
more than that to give him.
*******
Welcome!
Check out Alfie Kohn's Unconditional Parenting. He gives lots of facts and
figures to support his ideas. Supposedly there is a DVD version, too, which
sometimes is better for DH's than reading a book.
Leslie in SC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
evenstar75@... writes:
Discipline/Rewards: I know the answer is "No" but I need a but
more than that to give him.
*******
Welcome!
Check out Alfie Kohn's Unconditional Parenting. He gives lots of facts and
figures to support his ideas. Supposedly there is a DVD version, too, which
sometimes is better for DH's than reading a book.
Leslie in SC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
polykow
I agree with the book recomendation.
Its a great book for your dh to read.
Also like someone else wrote- manners are learned by example.
My 3 years old is very polite and always says ( OK almost always) thank you and please and I NEVER told him to do so but I always said thank you and please to him (and not only to other people around). I always treat him like I would treat anyone else, like a real person and not just a "child".
I could go on and on bragging about my "always unschooled son"...and he is a very outspoken, strong-willed, self-assured, gentle, intense, loving, caring, vibrant, explosive little guy.
Alex
Its a great book for your dh to read.
Also like someone else wrote- manners are learned by example.
My 3 years old is very polite and always says ( OK almost always) thank you and please and I NEVER told him to do so but I always said thank you and please to him (and not only to other people around). I always treat him like I would treat anyone else, like a real person and not just a "child".
I could go on and on bragging about my "always unschooled son"...and he is a very outspoken, strong-willed, self-assured, gentle, intense, loving, caring, vibrant, explosive little guy.
Alex
----- Original Message -----
From: Leslie530@...
Check out Alfie Kohn's Unconditional Parenting. He gives lots of facts and
figures to support his ideas. Supposedly there is a DVD version, too, which
sometimes is better for DH's than reading a book.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Nov 5, 2005, at 12:40 PM, Angela wrote:
I've seen parents who are truly sweet and gentle and polite and the
kids seem harsh and rude and demanding. I DO think parents ought to
let kids know when they're being discourteous and actually talk to
them about why courtesy is useful in lubricating social interactions
and so on. In other words, I think my kids (who are generally very
well-mannered) learned mostly from just living with parents who
behaved with good manners, but I do think there are times for
discussions AND times to bring things directly to kids' attention.
And I do not think parents should let kids be really disruptive.
If a child IS being rude, for example, in a restaurant, and
disturbing other customers - I would not punish the child, no hand-
slapping, no verbal reprimand (how many times have we seen parents
being INCREDIBLY rude in telling their kids not to BE rude?). But I'd
say, "Honey, that wasn't polite, it is bothering other customers."
And if a child kept it up, I'd take him/her outside to run around a bit.
I'm not suggesting that parents do the "Go tell Mrs. Brown thank
you," routine so much as giving information such as "Mrs. Brown would
probably like it if you thanked her."
And even with much older kids, there are times they just don't think/
realize what effect they might be having on others. So it isn't
often, but occasionally I might STILL say, "So-and-so went to a lot
of work for you, did you thank her enough?" And I might point out to
them how other people's lack of manners impacts how people respond to
them - point out how people are more eager to do things for those who
show their gratitude, for example.
So - be careful that you're not misleading your husband into thinking
that radical unschooling is so hands off that we withhold information
and expect kids to learn ONLY from our modeling.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Manners...hmm. Kids really learn these by example. If you areMostly true.
> polite, your
> children will learn to be polite.
I've seen parents who are truly sweet and gentle and polite and the
kids seem harsh and rude and demanding. I DO think parents ought to
let kids know when they're being discourteous and actually talk to
them about why courtesy is useful in lubricating social interactions
and so on. In other words, I think my kids (who are generally very
well-mannered) learned mostly from just living with parents who
behaved with good manners, but I do think there are times for
discussions AND times to bring things directly to kids' attention.
And I do not think parents should let kids be really disruptive.
If a child IS being rude, for example, in a restaurant, and
disturbing other customers - I would not punish the child, no hand-
slapping, no verbal reprimand (how many times have we seen parents
being INCREDIBLY rude in telling their kids not to BE rude?). But I'd
say, "Honey, that wasn't polite, it is bothering other customers."
And if a child kept it up, I'd take him/her outside to run around a bit.
I'm not suggesting that parents do the "Go tell Mrs. Brown thank
you," routine so much as giving information such as "Mrs. Brown would
probably like it if you thanked her."
And even with much older kids, there are times they just don't think/
realize what effect they might be having on others. So it isn't
often, but occasionally I might STILL say, "So-and-so went to a lot
of work for you, did you thank her enough?" And I might point out to
them how other people's lack of manners impacts how people respond to
them - point out how people are more eager to do things for those who
show their gratitude, for example.
So - be careful that you're not misleading your husband into thinking
that radical unschooling is so hands off that we withhold information
and expect kids to learn ONLY from our modeling.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
frozenandcold
Andrea, I have mentioned this quite a few times so I apologize for
those of you who have read it before but a book that REALLY helped me
with the rules v. principles was Living Joyfully With Children. It
isn't a very long book either so you could just mark key pages for
your husband to read or just read it aloud to him at night. You can
probably get it on half.com for a few bucks!
Heidi
those of you who have read it before but a book that REALLY helped me
with the rules v. principles was Living Joyfully With Children. It
isn't a very long book either so you could just mark key pages for
your husband to read or just read it aloud to him at night. You can
probably get it on half.com for a few bucks!
Heidi
Angela
<<In other words, I think my kids (who are generally very
well-mannered) learned mostly from just living with parents who
behaved with good manners, but I do think there are times for
discussions AND times to bring things directly to kids' attention.
And I do not think parents should let kids be really disruptive. >>
I absolutely agree with this. I do know some parents who are polite and
have children who seem to have no manners at all, now that I think about it.
You need to take it a bit further and let your children know when they are
doing something that could be perceived as impolite and help them to learn
social courtesies.
Angela
well-mannered) learned mostly from just living with parents who
behaved with good manners, but I do think there are times for
discussions AND times to bring things directly to kids' attention.
And I do not think parents should let kids be really disruptive. >>
I absolutely agree with this. I do know some parents who are polite and
have children who seem to have no manners at all, now that I think about it.
You need to take it a bit further and let your children know when they are
doing something that could be perceived as impolite and help them to learn
social courtesies.
Angela