re: gifted children
frozenandcold
<There is a whole lot of emotional and
social issues which make them different. They process information
about the
world around them differently. Their emotions are magnified by 10. A
gifted
child knows they are different without having to be told. My son
would tell
you it's not a gift, it's a curse. He wishes he was like everyone
else. >
This may be the case with your child, but I know a LOT of "gifted"
children that aren't any different, they just get really good grades
and are considered very "academic" and "apply" themselves. I think
EVERYONE perceives the world differently and I think EVERYONE learns
differently. The problem with the public school system is that it
is only set up to accommodate one type of learner, thus the need
for "resource" and "gifted" program. Even those in the "gifted"
program are usually only considered "gifted" in one or two areas.
My son happens to be "highly sensitive" and it is good to understand
how his brain works and to have the support of others that have
children like him, at the same time 20% of people in this country
are like him so is it really necessary to assign a label? My
husband was considered slightly dyslexic but they never labeled him
and he figured out ways to function within that, he never felt
different but knew that he had to find ways around it. I think we
are all "different" and have different ways of functioning in this
world.
I agree that it is good to understand the deeper meaning of the
label but that doesn't mean we have to actually label.
Heidi
social issues which make them different. They process information
about the
world around them differently. Their emotions are magnified by 10. A
gifted
child knows they are different without having to be told. My son
would tell
you it's not a gift, it's a curse. He wishes he was like everyone
else. >
This may be the case with your child, but I know a LOT of "gifted"
children that aren't any different, they just get really good grades
and are considered very "academic" and "apply" themselves. I think
EVERYONE perceives the world differently and I think EVERYONE learns
differently. The problem with the public school system is that it
is only set up to accommodate one type of learner, thus the need
for "resource" and "gifted" program. Even those in the "gifted"
program are usually only considered "gifted" in one or two areas.
My son happens to be "highly sensitive" and it is good to understand
how his brain works and to have the support of others that have
children like him, at the same time 20% of people in this country
are like him so is it really necessary to assign a label? My
husband was considered slightly dyslexic but they never labeled him
and he figured out ways to function within that, he never felt
different but knew that he had to find ways around it. I think we
are all "different" and have different ways of functioning in this
world.
I agree that it is good to understand the deeper meaning of the
label but that doesn't mean we have to actually label.
Heidi
Daniel MacIntyre
On 11/3/05, frozenandcold <fivefreebirds@...> wrote:
student" - not a gifted child. Gifted children very often don't "apply"
themselves - they know they can pass a typical class without having to. They
aren't the ones eagerly answering the teacher's questions - they are the
ones asking the questions the teacher can't answer. They aren't the ones who
spend hours on end on their homework - they are the ones who do their
homework at the last minute during the teacher's lectures instead of
listening to the teacher - illegibly scrawling out the correct answers -
often without even bothering to show the necessary work because they just
"knew" the right answers. They aren't the ones who study ahead of time for
tests - they are the ones that come into class late, realize everyone is
doing a test, borrow a pencil and still finish the test first and get the
highest score.
In school, gifted children are troublemakers - bored with class, with too
much time on their hands and a load of really interesting ideas that are
pretty much guaranteed to piss off the school teachers and administrators (I
had one friend who built a rocket out of a box of matches and set it off in
school - he showed an understanding of mechanics, force and motion WELL
beyond his peers and got suspended for it). They are often mis labeled as
adhd - even told they are stupid. They do NOT fit in with the rest of the
school - even when they are "behaving." Their peers don't understand them
and the teachers don't have time to deal with them - they are too busy
dealing with the kids who are struggling with the material.
People assume that gifted children have it easy - after all, they understand
the material presented to them. They assume that a gifted child's emotions
keep in pace with their intellect and expect him to show a level of maturity
that they would NEVER expect from his peers, and then when he fails to live
up to their expectations, they blame him. They don't understand the drive a
gifted child has for learning that interests him to the exclusion of all
else. They can't relate.
Just my two cents on the matter - really, none of the above applies when you
are unschooling :)
--
Daniel
( Blogging at http://key-words.blogspot.com/ )
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>I have to disagree with this one - what you are describing is a "good
> <There is a whole lot of emotional and
> social issues which make them different. They process information
> about the
> world around them differently. Their emotions are magnified by 10. A
> gifted
> child knows they are different without having to be told. My son
> would tell
> you it's not a gift, it's a curse. He wishes he was like everyone
> else. >
>
> This may be the case with your child, but I know a LOT of "gifted"
> children that aren't any different, they just get really good grades
> and are considered very "academic" and "apply" themselves.
student" - not a gifted child. Gifted children very often don't "apply"
themselves - they know they can pass a typical class without having to. They
aren't the ones eagerly answering the teacher's questions - they are the
ones asking the questions the teacher can't answer. They aren't the ones who
spend hours on end on their homework - they are the ones who do their
homework at the last minute during the teacher's lectures instead of
listening to the teacher - illegibly scrawling out the correct answers -
often without even bothering to show the necessary work because they just
"knew" the right answers. They aren't the ones who study ahead of time for
tests - they are the ones that come into class late, realize everyone is
doing a test, borrow a pencil and still finish the test first and get the
highest score.
In school, gifted children are troublemakers - bored with class, with too
much time on their hands and a load of really interesting ideas that are
pretty much guaranteed to piss off the school teachers and administrators (I
had one friend who built a rocket out of a box of matches and set it off in
school - he showed an understanding of mechanics, force and motion WELL
beyond his peers and got suspended for it). They are often mis labeled as
adhd - even told they are stupid. They do NOT fit in with the rest of the
school - even when they are "behaving." Their peers don't understand them
and the teachers don't have time to deal with them - they are too busy
dealing with the kids who are struggling with the material.
People assume that gifted children have it easy - after all, they understand
the material presented to them. They assume that a gifted child's emotions
keep in pace with their intellect and expect him to show a level of maturity
that they would NEVER expect from his peers, and then when he fails to live
up to their expectations, they blame him. They don't understand the drive a
gifted child has for learning that interests him to the exclusion of all
else. They can't relate.
Just my two cents on the matter - really, none of the above applies when you
are unschooling :)
--
Daniel
( Blogging at http://key-words.blogspot.com/ )
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
"
I have to disagree with this one - what you are describing is a "good
student" - not a gifted child. Gifted children very often don't "apply"
themselves - they know they can pass a typical class without having to."
While I understand exactly what you're saying Danielle, the "gifted"
children that get the label in school, AREN'T the highly intelligent
"troublemakers" you just described.
Though the "gifted" label is so wrongly applied in SO many cases in
the school system, I still have to agree with Heidi's version of it.
If the school recognized what you just posted as truth, they'd have to
change their gifted program really FAST. It would be great if they'd
recognize the intelligence of those "troublemakers" YES!
Either way, I can't stand the label "gifted"...we're all "gifted" in
some way. Yes, there are highly intelligent, unique children that just
seem to need more stimulation than others...but in school the "gifted"
label means "better than" and it causes as much harm as the LD label
in my opinion.
I have a friend (are you still here Millie?) that has a VERY unique
child that way. At 16 months Will was reading. I don't mean a word or
two occasionally...I mean fluently reading ANYTHING.
He was two when they lived with us for a while, and I saw him pick up
a newspaper article and start reading it, word for word.
It freaked me out! He would walk behind me while I was on the computer
and walk away chanting words that were on my screen. CRIPES!
He preferred encyclopedia's and factual books to any children's
storybooks. He was SO unique that way....also a more intense personality.
I often wonder if Will would get the "gifted" label at school...I mean
it's obvious he has a very different learning path than other children
his age, but would they turn that ability into a disability?
I've seen it happen to other highly intelligent children. They
actually end up with an LD label because they don't do the schoolwork,
they can't write neatly, they lose focus (who wants to focus on
something you aren't interested in?), perhaps act destructively.
Anyhoo....I wrote too much, all I wanted to say was that I think all
these labels are harmful to a child's spirit...soulcrushing actually.
Unschooled children can just BE who they are, without judgements,
without divisive labels, simply being celebrated for who they are
today. It's a beautiful thing.
I know you already agree with that Danielle...I'm not writing that
aimed at you. I think you're absolutely right about many of the highly
intelligent children being "troublemakers" in school...but I don't
believe most educators see it for what it really is.
Ren
I have to disagree with this one - what you are describing is a "good
student" - not a gifted child. Gifted children very often don't "apply"
themselves - they know they can pass a typical class without having to."
While I understand exactly what you're saying Danielle, the "gifted"
children that get the label in school, AREN'T the highly intelligent
"troublemakers" you just described.
Though the "gifted" label is so wrongly applied in SO many cases in
the school system, I still have to agree with Heidi's version of it.
If the school recognized what you just posted as truth, they'd have to
change their gifted program really FAST. It would be great if they'd
recognize the intelligence of those "troublemakers" YES!
Either way, I can't stand the label "gifted"...we're all "gifted" in
some way. Yes, there are highly intelligent, unique children that just
seem to need more stimulation than others...but in school the "gifted"
label means "better than" and it causes as much harm as the LD label
in my opinion.
I have a friend (are you still here Millie?) that has a VERY unique
child that way. At 16 months Will was reading. I don't mean a word or
two occasionally...I mean fluently reading ANYTHING.
He was two when they lived with us for a while, and I saw him pick up
a newspaper article and start reading it, word for word.
It freaked me out! He would walk behind me while I was on the computer
and walk away chanting words that were on my screen. CRIPES!
He preferred encyclopedia's and factual books to any children's
storybooks. He was SO unique that way....also a more intense personality.
I often wonder if Will would get the "gifted" label at school...I mean
it's obvious he has a very different learning path than other children
his age, but would they turn that ability into a disability?
I've seen it happen to other highly intelligent children. They
actually end up with an LD label because they don't do the schoolwork,
they can't write neatly, they lose focus (who wants to focus on
something you aren't interested in?), perhaps act destructively.
Anyhoo....I wrote too much, all I wanted to say was that I think all
these labels are harmful to a child's spirit...soulcrushing actually.
Unschooled children can just BE who they are, without judgements,
without divisive labels, simply being celebrated for who they are
today. It's a beautiful thing.
I know you already agree with that Danielle...I'm not writing that
aimed at you. I think you're absolutely right about many of the highly
intelligent children being "troublemakers" in school...but I don't
believe most educators see it for what it really is.
Ren
Daniel MacIntyre
:)
On 11/4/05, Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
>
> "
> I have to disagree with this one - what you are describing is a "good
> student" - not a gifted child. Gifted children very often don't "apply"
> themselves - they know they can pass a typical class without having to."
>
> While I understand exactly what you're saying Danielle, the "gifted"
> children that get the label in school, AREN'T the highly intelligent
> "troublemakers" you just described.
> Though the "gifted" label is so wrongly applied in SO many cases in
> the school system, I still have to agree with Heidi's version of it.
>
> If the school recognized what you just posted as truth, they'd have to
> change their gifted program really FAST. It would be great if they'd
> recognize the intelligence of those "troublemakers" YES!
>
> Either way, I can't stand the label "gifted"...we're all "gifted" in
> some way. Yes, there are highly intelligent, unique children that just
> seem to need more stimulation than others...but in school the "gifted"
> label means "better than" and it causes as much harm as the LD label
> in my opinion.
>
> I have a friend (are you still here Millie?) that has a VERY unique
> child that way. At 16 months Will was reading. I don't mean a word or
> two occasionally...I mean fluently reading ANYTHING.
> He was two when they lived with us for a while, and I saw him pick up
> a newspaper article and start reading it, word for word.
> It freaked me out! He would walk behind me while I was on the computer
> and walk away chanting words that were on my screen. CRIPES!
> He preferred encyclopedia's and factual books to any children's
> storybooks. He was SO unique that way....also a more intense personality.
>
> I often wonder if Will would get the "gifted" label at school...I mean
> it's obvious he has a very different learning path than other children
> his age, but would they turn that ability into a disability?
> I've seen it happen to other highly intelligent children. They
> actually end up with an LD label because they don't do the schoolwork,
> they can't write neatly, they lose focus (who wants to focus on
> something you aren't interested in?), perhaps act destructively.
>
> Anyhoo....I wrote too much, all I wanted to say was that I think all
> these labels are harmful to a child's spirit...soulcrushing actually.
>
> Unschooled children can just BE who they are, without judgements,
> without divisive labels, simply being celebrated for who they are
> today. It's a beautiful thing.
>
> I know you already agree with that Danielle...I'm not writing that
> aimed at you. I think you're absolutely right about many of the highly
> intelligent children being "troublemakers" in school...but I don't
> believe most educators see it for what it really is.
>
> Ren
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Daniel
( Blogging at http://key-words.blogspot.com/ )
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Danielle Conger
Ren Allen wrote:
It was the blogging Daniel MacIntyre who wrote the gifted response, not
myself.
--
~~Danielle
Emily (8), Julia (6), Sam (5)
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"With our thoughts, we make the world." ~~Buddha
> "Just to clarify...
> I have to disagree with this one - what you are describing is a "good
> student" - not a gifted child. Gifted children very often don't "apply"
> themselves - they know they can pass a typical class without having to."
>
> While I understand exactly what you're saying Danielle,
It was the blogging Daniel MacIntyre who wrote the gifted response, not
myself.
--
~~Danielle
Emily (8), Julia (6), Sam (5)
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"With our thoughts, we make the world." ~~Buddha
Ren Allen
"While I understand exactly what you're saying Danielle,
Just to clarify...
It was the blogging Daniel MacIntyre who wrote the gifted response, not
myself."
Just to clarify...
It was the blogging Daniel MacIntyre who wrote the gifted response, not
myself."
Ren Allen
"While I understand exactly what you're saying Danielle,"
"Just to clarify...
It was the blogging Daniel MacIntyre who wrote the gifted response, not
myself."
OMG!!
I didn't even catch that. I saw DANIEL in my mind while I was typing
(his smiling face) but typed DANIELLE (whom I also love dearly).
Sorry for the confusion Daniel and Danielle and listmembers.:)
Ren
"Just to clarify...
It was the blogging Daniel MacIntyre who wrote the gifted response, not
myself."
OMG!!
I didn't even catch that. I saw DANIEL in my mind while I was typing
(his smiling face) but typed DANIELLE (whom I also love dearly).
Sorry for the confusion Daniel and Danielle and listmembers.:)
Ren
Daniel MacIntyre
It's ok. If I am to be confused with someone, there are far, far worse
people to be confused with :)
people to be confused with :)
On 11/4/05, Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
>
> "While I understand exactly what you're saying Danielle,"
>
> "Just to clarify...
>
> It was the blogging Daniel MacIntyre who wrote the gifted response, not
> myself."
>
>
> OMG!!
> I didn't even catch that. I saw DANIEL in my mind while I was typing
> (his smiling face) but typed DANIELLE (whom I also love dearly).
> Sorry for the confusion Daniel and Danielle and listmembers.:)
>
> Ren
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Daniel
( Blogging at http://key-words.blogspot.com/ )
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
frozenandcold
<Just my two cents on the matter - really, none of the above applies
when you
are unschooling :)>
This was really the point I was trying to make. You are right about
your description of what the label should mean but those definitely
weren't the kids that were labeled as gifted when I was going to
school and it certainly doesn't describe my nephew. Anyway, my main
point was that we all function differently in the world, I am sure I
could be labeled with something too, maybe ADHD or something! :)
I am just so thankful for unschooling and that my children are simply
honored for being who they are.
Heidi
when you
are unschooling :)>
This was really the point I was trying to make. You are right about
your description of what the label should mean but those definitely
weren't the kids that were labeled as gifted when I was going to
school and it certainly doesn't describe my nephew. Anyway, my main
point was that we all function differently in the world, I am sure I
could be labeled with something too, maybe ADHD or something! :)
I am just so thankful for unschooling and that my children are simply
honored for being who they are.
Heidi
k
The only good I've found with labels is a matter of degree. If you're
trying to counteract a really negative label then a more empowering
label can be good. OR even better is to get out of the labeling
business altogether and find ways around the blame game. So often,
knowing who or what causes a person's life to be different, like you
said, doesn't yield a useful strategy for living that life.
The biggest problem with labeling children is that such things comfort
adults (parents, grandparents, teachers, administrators, doctors,
psychologists and so on) while taking more power from children through
assigned names, which are seldom sought or welcomed. Entire
livelihoods
are based the job of labeling and doing things *to* people rather than
appreciating and doing things *for* and *with* them.
It's the best of all worlds to spend the young years finding out for
yourself who you are and what you will do. The alternative is to spend
a chunk or the entirety of your adulthood shedding old undesirable
labels. If a person doesn't use their power someone else will. The
greatest gift is to protect children from bullying, labeling, and
whatever else robs them of personal power over their life.
Kathe
frozenandcold wrote:
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
trying to counteract a really negative label then a more empowering
label can be good. OR even better is to get out of the labeling
business altogether and find ways around the blame game. So often,
knowing who or what causes a person's life to be different, like you
said, doesn't yield a useful strategy for living that life.
The biggest problem with labeling children is that such things comfort
adults (parents, grandparents, teachers, administrators, doctors,
psychologists and so on) while taking more power from children through
assigned names, which are seldom sought or welcomed. Entire
livelihoods
are based the job of labeling and doing things *to* people rather than
appreciating and doing things *for* and *with* them.
It's the best of all worlds to spend the young years finding out for
yourself who you are and what you will do. The alternative is to spend
a chunk or the entirety of your adulthood shedding old undesirable
labels. If a person doesn't use their power someone else will. The
greatest gift is to protect children from bullying, labeling, and
whatever else robs them of personal power over their life.
Kathe
frozenandcold wrote:
> <There is a whole lot of emotional and__________________________________
> social issues which make them different. They process information
> about the
> world around them differently. Their emotions are magnified by 10. A
> gifted
> child knows they are different without having to be told. My son
> would tell
> you it's not a gift, it's a curse. He wishes he was like everyone
> else. >
>
> This may be the case with your child, but I know a LOT of "gifted"
> children that aren't any different, they just get really good grades
> and are considered very "academic" and "apply" themselves. I think
> EVERYONE perceives the world differently and I think EVERYONE learns
> differently. The problem with the public school system is that it
> is only set up to accommodate one type of learner, thus the need
> for "resource" and "gifted" program. Even those in the "gifted"
> program are usually only considered "gifted" in one or two areas.
>
> My son happens to be "highly sensitive" and it is good to understand
> how his brain works and to have the support of others that have
> children like him, at the same time 20% of people in this country
> are like him so is it really necessary to assign a label? My
> husband was considered slightly dyslexic but they never labeled him
> and he figured out ways to function within that, he never felt
> different but knew that he had to find ways around it. I think we
> are all "different" and have different ways of functioning in this
> world.
>
> I agree that it is good to understand the deeper meaning of the
> label but that doesn't mean we have to actually label.
>
> Heidi
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com