baby steps to radical unschooling
lreinbach
This topic of unschooling and radical unschooling and relinquishing
controls has been really interesting. Those of you who consider
yourselves radical unschoolers, what are the steps to getting there?
So far I have learned NOT to go cold turkey and drop all the controls
that have been in place(ie. bedtimes, TV, food, etc) all at once. So
how exactly do you do it so everything and everyone can transition
smoothly?
Thanks
Laura
mom to Ethan(4) and Luke(2.5)
controls has been really interesting. Those of you who consider
yourselves radical unschoolers, what are the steps to getting there?
So far I have learned NOT to go cold turkey and drop all the controls
that have been in place(ie. bedtimes, TV, food, etc) all at once. So
how exactly do you do it so everything and everyone can transition
smoothly?
Thanks
Laura
mom to Ethan(4) and Luke(2.5)
Deb
--- In [email protected], "lreinbach" <laura@r...>
wrote:
transition (maybe littler bumps because your kids don't have 6 or 8 or
10 years of regulations to shed), know that this will be hardest on
the grown ups who have decades of "shoulds" and societal expectations
rumbling around in their heads. Say Yes more and before saying No,
think about Why you are about to say no. Is there a reason behind it?
Or is it just "business as usual"? Sometimes there are ways to make a
No be a Yes - for instance "Can I have 3 cookies?"
standard answer might be "NO! Just one"
new answer might be "They are good aren't they? Everyone liked them so
much that there are only 3 left. Let's check and see if anyone else
wants any before we finish them all off." And, if no one wants one, 3
cookies it is.
standard answer might be "NO - no cookies before dinner"
new answer might be "we're having (name dinner food) in about 10
minutes (or 'when SpongeBob is over' or 'when the timer beeps' -
little kids don't have much time sense - there's "now" and "a long
time from now" and that's about it). how about one cookie now so
you'll have room for (dinner food) which I know you like (if that's
true)? you can have more later" *note this one might not be a first go
round because the kids need to have a foundation of trust that when
you say 'later' it really happens later.
standard answer might be "NO" (a little kid whining) "Oh okay" (long
suffering sigh) But don't come crying to me when you've got a tummy
ache."
new answer might be "You know, I've noticed that when you eat 3
cookies in a row, it upsets your stomach. Maybe we can put these 3
aside just for you and you can eat them a little slowly over the
evening." *note this too is one that requires a background of trust
and a willingness on both parties to work toward a mutually acceptable
solution - child asking might decide to "risk" getting a stomach ache
or might have an alternate plan to propose. lots of communication
needed.
I'm sure other folks have better examples but maybe this'll get you
started
--Deb
wrote:
>One thing at a time, slowly, assume there will be bumps in the
> This topic of unschooling and radical unschooling and relinquishing
> controls has been really interesting. Those of you who consider
> yourselves radical unschoolers, what are the steps to getting there?
> So far I have learned NOT to go cold turkey and drop all the controls
> that have been in place(ie. bedtimes, TV, food, etc) all at once. So
> how exactly do you do it so everything and everyone can transition
> smoothly?
> Thanks
> Laura
> mom to Ethan(4) and Luke(2.5)
>
transition (maybe littler bumps because your kids don't have 6 or 8 or
10 years of regulations to shed), know that this will be hardest on
the grown ups who have decades of "shoulds" and societal expectations
rumbling around in their heads. Say Yes more and before saying No,
think about Why you are about to say no. Is there a reason behind it?
Or is it just "business as usual"? Sometimes there are ways to make a
No be a Yes - for instance "Can I have 3 cookies?"
standard answer might be "NO! Just one"
new answer might be "They are good aren't they? Everyone liked them so
much that there are only 3 left. Let's check and see if anyone else
wants any before we finish them all off." And, if no one wants one, 3
cookies it is.
standard answer might be "NO - no cookies before dinner"
new answer might be "we're having (name dinner food) in about 10
minutes (or 'when SpongeBob is over' or 'when the timer beeps' -
little kids don't have much time sense - there's "now" and "a long
time from now" and that's about it). how about one cookie now so
you'll have room for (dinner food) which I know you like (if that's
true)? you can have more later" *note this one might not be a first go
round because the kids need to have a foundation of trust that when
you say 'later' it really happens later.
standard answer might be "NO" (a little kid whining) "Oh okay" (long
suffering sigh) But don't come crying to me when you've got a tummy
ache."
new answer might be "You know, I've noticed that when you eat 3
cookies in a row, it upsets your stomach. Maybe we can put these 3
aside just for you and you can eat them a little slowly over the
evening." *note this too is one that requires a background of trust
and a willingness on both parties to work toward a mutually acceptable
solution - child asking might decide to "risk" getting a stomach ache
or might have an alternate plan to propose. lots of communication
needed.
I'm sure other folks have better examples but maybe this'll get you
started
--Deb
frozenandcold
*This topic of unschooling and radical unschooling and relinquishing
controls has been really interesting. Those of you who consider
yourselves radical unschoolers, what are the steps to getting there?
So far I have learned NOT to go cold turkey and drop all the controls
that have been in place(ie. bedtimes, TV, food, etc) all at once. So
how exactly do you do it so everything and everyone can transition
smoothly?
Thanks
Laura
mom to Ethan(4) and Luke(2.5)*
Laura, I think the biggest thing is just to be VERY mindful so that
what you say and do are not just knee jerk reactions. And being
mindful never ends! I still sometimes find myself saying and doing
things that our OLD tools from my childhood. And saying yes more
often, that is really good advice! Slowly let go of rules and start
living by principles, I have mentioned it a couple of times but a
really good starting point for me was the book Living Joyfully With
Children. I think it is also really good to see it in action, that is
what convinced me on several issues, it didn't make sense to read
about it but when I saw it in action it all made sense! Do you know
any radical unschoolers that you could hang out with now and then?
Maybe try to meet some. I think just being very conscious of what
your children are feeling, their perceptions of situations, their
needs, their desires, etc., a basic respect and honor of their person.
Hope that helps.
Heidi
controls has been really interesting. Those of you who consider
yourselves radical unschoolers, what are the steps to getting there?
So far I have learned NOT to go cold turkey and drop all the controls
that have been in place(ie. bedtimes, TV, food, etc) all at once. So
how exactly do you do it so everything and everyone can transition
smoothly?
Thanks
Laura
mom to Ethan(4) and Luke(2.5)*
Laura, I think the biggest thing is just to be VERY mindful so that
what you say and do are not just knee jerk reactions. And being
mindful never ends! I still sometimes find myself saying and doing
things that our OLD tools from my childhood. And saying yes more
often, that is really good advice! Slowly let go of rules and start
living by principles, I have mentioned it a couple of times but a
really good starting point for me was the book Living Joyfully With
Children. I think it is also really good to see it in action, that is
what convinced me on several issues, it didn't make sense to read
about it but when I saw it in action it all made sense! Do you know
any radical unschoolers that you could hang out with now and then?
Maybe try to meet some. I think just being very conscious of what
your children are feeling, their perceptions of situations, their
needs, their desires, etc., a basic respect and honor of their person.
Hope that helps.
Heidi
[email protected]
----Original Message-----
From: lreinbach <laura@...
This topic of unschooling and radical unschooling and relinquishing
controls has been really interesting.
-=-=-=-
I think that's really important to point out to Rebecca---and others who are questioning us:
it's not necessarily *you* we are talking/writing to. There are others who read here whose
minds start swirling 'round and 'round when you start asking and we start answering. Some
questions lead to others which lead to others and others and others. When we start questioning
things, that's GOOD! And the more questions you ask (both *us* AND *yourownselves*), the more
questions you (and we <g>) will have!
-=-=-=-
Those of you who consider
yourselves radical unschoolers, what are the steps to getting there?
So far I have learned NOT to go cold turkey and drop all the controls
that have been in place(ie. bedtimes, TV, food, etc) all at once. So
how exactly do you do it so everything and everyone can transition
smoothly?
-=-=-=-=-
Good for you not to go cold turkey!
Yes more. No less. Be the parent you wish you'd had. Be mindful and think before you speak.
Make better choices each time, if you can.
~KellyKelly LovejoyConference CoordinatorLive and Learn Unschooling Conferencehttp://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: lreinbach <laura@...
This topic of unschooling and radical unschooling and relinquishing
controls has been really interesting.
-=-=-=-
I think that's really important to point out to Rebecca---and others who are questioning us:
it's not necessarily *you* we are talking/writing to. There are others who read here whose
minds start swirling 'round and 'round when you start asking and we start answering. Some
questions lead to others which lead to others and others and others. When we start questioning
things, that's GOOD! And the more questions you ask (both *us* AND *yourownselves*), the more
questions you (and we <g>) will have!
-=-=-=-
Those of you who consider
yourselves radical unschoolers, what are the steps to getting there?
So far I have learned NOT to go cold turkey and drop all the controls
that have been in place(ie. bedtimes, TV, food, etc) all at once. So
how exactly do you do it so everything and everyone can transition
smoothly?
-=-=-=-=-
Good for you not to go cold turkey!
Yes more. No less. Be the parent you wish you'd had. Be mindful and think before you speak.
Make better choices each time, if you can.
~KellyKelly LovejoyConference CoordinatorLive and Learn Unschooling Conferencehttp://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
<<exactly how do you do it so everything and everyone can transition smoothly?>>
I think it is different with each family and probably each child. We initially tried jumping in with both feet, dropping all controls, telling the kids we were dropping controls.....HUGE mistake, we were in absolute chaos for a long time, plus the fact that I didn't "get" that my needs were as important as my kids. It got pretty ugly and with one son we are still re-cuping from that.
I would suggest simply thinking about what rules and limitations you have. Why do you have them? Are they to prevent some possible problem in the future (too much sugar can lead to cavities) or are they in place because of real, current problems (can't stay up late at night alone because continues to leave house and wander neighborhood even after many, many discussions of dangers)?
When the kids ask you something, challenge yourself to try to find a way to be able to say "yes" to them and feel comfortable about it. Think outside the box. Try new things.
Keep track of those off the cuff "no" answers. Were they truly necessary because of safety and respect issues or were you concerned about what "society" will think?
Julie S.
I think it is different with each family and probably each child. We initially tried jumping in with both feet, dropping all controls, telling the kids we were dropping controls.....HUGE mistake, we were in absolute chaos for a long time, plus the fact that I didn't "get" that my needs were as important as my kids. It got pretty ugly and with one son we are still re-cuping from that.
I would suggest simply thinking about what rules and limitations you have. Why do you have them? Are they to prevent some possible problem in the future (too much sugar can lead to cavities) or are they in place because of real, current problems (can't stay up late at night alone because continues to leave house and wander neighborhood even after many, many discussions of dangers)?
When the kids ask you something, challenge yourself to try to find a way to be able to say "yes" to them and feel comfortable about it. Think outside the box. Try new things.
Keep track of those off the cuff "no" answers. Were they truly necessary because of safety and respect issues or were you concerned about what "society" will think?
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: lreinbach <laura@...>
Date: Wednesday, November 2, 2005 2:57 pm
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] baby steps to radical unschooling
> This topic of unschooling and radical unschooling and relinquishing
> controls has been really interesting. Those of you who consider
> yourselves radical unschoolers, what are the steps to getting
> there?
> So far I have learned NOT to go cold turkey and drop all the controls
> that have been in place(ie. bedtimes, TV, food, etc) all at once. So
> how exactly do you do it so everything and everyone can transition
> smoothly?
> Thanks
> Laura
> mom to Ethan(4) and Luke(2.5)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
> ~-->
> DonorsChoose.org helps at-risk students succeed. Fund a student
> project today!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/G7lQgA/FpQLAA/HwKMAA/0xXolB/TM
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> -~->
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
lreinbach
My kids(ages 4 and 2.5) have a bedtime and it is mainly so I can have
some quiet time in the evening to watch tv or read. I feel like I
really need that time because I don't usually get it during the day.
At this point in my kids lives they still want me to play with them or
just sit with them while they are watching tv or whatever. So I feel
if I stop with the bedtime then I will lose my quiet, alone time. Is
that a selfish reason? How can there be a balance?
Thanks,
Laura
some quiet time in the evening to watch tv or read. I feel like I
really need that time because I don't usually get it during the day.
At this point in my kids lives they still want me to play with them or
just sit with them while they are watching tv or whatever. So I feel
if I stop with the bedtime then I will lose my quiet, alone time. Is
that a selfish reason? How can there be a balance?
Thanks,
Laura
--- In [email protected], jnjstau@d... wrote:
>
> <<exactly how do you do it so everything and everyone can transition
smoothly?>>
>
> I think it is different with each family and probably each child.
We initially tried jumping in with both feet, dropping all controls,
telling the kids we were dropping controls.....HUGE mistake, we were
in absolute chaos for a long time, plus the fact that I didn't "get"
that my needs were as important as my kids. It got pretty ugly and
with one son we are still re-cuping from that.
>
> I would suggest simply thinking about what rules and limitations you
have. Why do you have them? Are they to prevent some possible
problem in the future (too much sugar can lead to cavities) or are
they in place because of real, current problems (can't stay up late at
night alone because continues to leave house and wander neighborhood
even after many, many discussions of dangers)?
>
> When the kids ask you something, challenge yourself to try to find a
way to be able to say "yes" to them and feel comfortable about it.
Think outside the box. Try new things.
>
> Keep track of those off the cuff "no" answers. Were they truly
necessary because of safety and respect issues or were you concerned
about what "society" will think?
>
> Julie S.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: lreinbach <laura@r...>
> Date: Wednesday, November 2, 2005 2:57 pm
> Subject: [unschoolingbasics] baby steps to radical unschooling
>
> > This topic of unschooling and radical unschooling and relinquishing
> > controls has been really interesting. Those of you who consider
> > yourselves radical unschoolers, what are the steps to getting
> > there?
> > So far I have learned NOT to go cold turkey and drop all the controls
> > that have been in place(ie. bedtimes, TV, food, etc) all at once. So
> > how exactly do you do it so everything and everyone can transition
> > smoothly?
> > Thanks
> > Laura
> > mom to Ethan(4) and Luke(2.5)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
> > ~-->
> > DonorsChoose.org helps at-risk students succeed. Fund a student
> > project today!
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/G7lQgA/FpQLAA/HwKMAA/0xXolB/TM
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -~->
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Pamela Sorooshian
They are very little. Do they resist going to bed? Do you have an
arbitrary time and it is "time" no matter what else is going on? Do
you make them quit happily being involved in something because it is
bedtime RIGHT NOW? Do you have a sweet and calm bedtime routine that
helps them transition to sleeping time?
I, personally, think it is great to have a quiet time most evenings
when you know the kids are tired and pretty close to ready to sleep
and you turn the lights down and the noise level down and you get
pj's on and have warm milk and get teeth brushed and do something
that transitions to sleep for the little ones - watch a soft and
gentle and often-watched movie, read well-loved stories (not the time
for new and exciting ones).
You might do that and call it "bedtime."
But when we talk about not having bedtimes, we're not talking about
that - we're talking about those parents who say: "You must be in bed
at 7:30 pm whether you're sleepy or not and if you're not, well, you
can just LIE there and rest."
I think lots of us probably did the family bed thing - so the concept
of "sending the kids off to bed" didn't really enter into our lives.
With my oldest, when it seemed she was getting sleepy, I'd lie down
with her and I'd sing, every night, until she went to sleep. I
sometimes had to cajole her into lying down, because she was a go-go-
go-go kid, never wanted to rest. STILL like that. MANY nights that
was it for me, too, I'd be out for the night. Second kid was one who
would SAY she was sleepy and want me to go tuck her in, maybe sing a
song or two, never more than that. Before she was four, she started
reading and from then on she'd go get into her own bed with a PILE of
books to read and would always fall asleep with a book in her hand.
Third kid just fell asleep anywhere, anytime. Still does that at 14.
Very often watching tv and sometimes with a book over her face <G>.
-pam
arbitrary time and it is "time" no matter what else is going on? Do
you make them quit happily being involved in something because it is
bedtime RIGHT NOW? Do you have a sweet and calm bedtime routine that
helps them transition to sleeping time?
I, personally, think it is great to have a quiet time most evenings
when you know the kids are tired and pretty close to ready to sleep
and you turn the lights down and the noise level down and you get
pj's on and have warm milk and get teeth brushed and do something
that transitions to sleep for the little ones - watch a soft and
gentle and often-watched movie, read well-loved stories (not the time
for new and exciting ones).
You might do that and call it "bedtime."
But when we talk about not having bedtimes, we're not talking about
that - we're talking about those parents who say: "You must be in bed
at 7:30 pm whether you're sleepy or not and if you're not, well, you
can just LIE there and rest."
I think lots of us probably did the family bed thing - so the concept
of "sending the kids off to bed" didn't really enter into our lives.
With my oldest, when it seemed she was getting sleepy, I'd lie down
with her and I'd sing, every night, until she went to sleep. I
sometimes had to cajole her into lying down, because she was a go-go-
go-go kid, never wanted to rest. STILL like that. MANY nights that
was it for me, too, I'd be out for the night. Second kid was one who
would SAY she was sleepy and want me to go tuck her in, maybe sing a
song or two, never more than that. Before she was four, she started
reading and from then on she'd go get into her own bed with a PILE of
books to read and would always fall asleep with a book in her hand.
Third kid just fell asleep anywhere, anytime. Still does that at 14.
Very often watching tv and sometimes with a book over her face <G>.
-pam
On Nov 3, 2005, at 3:16 PM, lreinbach wrote:
> My kids(ages 4 and 2.5) have a bedtime and it is mainly so I can have
> some quiet time in the evening to watch tv or read. I feel like I
> really need that time because I don't usually get it during the day.
> At this point in my kids lives they still want me to play with them or
> just sit with them while they are watching tv or whatever. So I feel
> if I stop with the bedtime then I will lose my quiet, alone time. Is
> that a selfish reason? How can there be a balance?
> Thanks,
> Laura
>
>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/3/2005 6:18:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
laura@... writes:
My kids(ages 4 and 2.5) have a bedtime and it is mainly so I can have
some quiet time in the evening to watch tv or read. I feel like I
really need that time because I don't usually get it during the day.
At this point in my kids lives they still want me to play with them or
just sit with them while they are watching tv or whatever. So I feel
if I stop with the bedtime then I will lose my quiet, alone time. Is
that a selfish reason? How can there be a balance?
Thanks,
Laura
~~~~~~~~~~
My oldest 2 (5 1/2 and 4) both have tenative "bedtimes", but they are very
flexible. It doesn't mean lights out, in bed, go to sleep. They go hang out in
their rooms for some down time. My daughter will quietly play dolls on her
bed, or look at books. My son will look at books, play with Leap Pad, play with
him Thomas trains, whatever strikes his fancy. My daughter will fall asleep
with her light on. My son will ask to be tucked in when he's ready.
Tonight, "bedtime" is being pushed back because my daughter asked to watch
her new Cinderella movie she got for her birthday. My son will watch it too,
but he is sitting here playing with some random toys as well. And I am still
getting to do as I please. My favorite TV shows will be on later, and they will
most likely be asleep by then :o)
Jenny
Homeschooling in Greenfield, MA
Danny (12-1-99), Kelsey (11-1-01) and Evelyn (5-19-04)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Education is not filling a pail but the lighting of a fire. ~William Butler
Yeats
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
laura@... writes:
My kids(ages 4 and 2.5) have a bedtime and it is mainly so I can have
some quiet time in the evening to watch tv or read. I feel like I
really need that time because I don't usually get it during the day.
At this point in my kids lives they still want me to play with them or
just sit with them while they are watching tv or whatever. So I feel
if I stop with the bedtime then I will lose my quiet, alone time. Is
that a selfish reason? How can there be a balance?
Thanks,
Laura
~~~~~~~~~~
My oldest 2 (5 1/2 and 4) both have tenative "bedtimes", but they are very
flexible. It doesn't mean lights out, in bed, go to sleep. They go hang out in
their rooms for some down time. My daughter will quietly play dolls on her
bed, or look at books. My son will look at books, play with Leap Pad, play with
him Thomas trains, whatever strikes his fancy. My daughter will fall asleep
with her light on. My son will ask to be tucked in when he's ready.
Tonight, "bedtime" is being pushed back because my daughter asked to watch
her new Cinderella movie she got for her birthday. My son will watch it too,
but he is sitting here playing with some random toys as well. And I am still
getting to do as I please. My favorite TV shows will be on later, and they will
most likely be asleep by then :o)
Jenny
Homeschooling in Greenfield, MA
Danny (12-1-99), Kelsey (11-1-01) and Evelyn (5-19-04)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Education is not filling a pail but the lighting of a fire. ~William Butler
Yeats
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: lreinbach <laura@...>
My kids(ages 4 and 2.5) have a bedtime and it is mainly so I can have
some quiet time in the evening to watch tv or read. I feel like I
really need that time because I don't usually get it during the day.
At this point in my kids lives they still want me to play with them or
just sit with them while they are watching tv or whatever. So I feel
if I stop with the bedtime then I will lose my quiet, alone time. Is
that a selfish reason? How can there be a balance?
-=-=-=-=-
They're still *really* little. I can't imagine that they're even able to stay up too late! But
I have two big sleepers, so I'm always amazed at how late other kids can keep going! <g>
I think it's much more important that they learn to give you space when you need it than to set
up arbitrary bedtimes in order to get it. But they are really little! I'll use my Aunt Celie's
advice: enjoy it while you got it 'cause you're gonna miss it when it's gone!
ENJOY the time you play with them and sit with them while they watch tv! It won't last forever!
And you WILL miss it when they move on to bigger and better things!
I understand the need to have alone time. I get mine mostly in the mornings---no one's awake at
6:30 but me & the dogs! <G> You may need to alter your scheduled alone time! <g> But you can
also explain to them how you need some quiet time in the evenings. They may want to just fall
asleep in your arms as you watch tv or read. But again---they are sooo little! I bet with a
little warm milk (or nursing), a bath, and a few books or songs, they would be asleep anyway
within 1/2 hour!
We're NOT saying that such young children should be awake until you retire @ midnight! But you
*can* make bedtime a pleasant time FOR them---something they look forward to---even if that
means you get 1/2 hour less time for yourself alone.
Are they not tired at the end of the day? Do they *want* to stay up? Do they fight sleep? Do
*you* understand that they'll sleep when they're tired? Won't they???
~Kelly Kelly LovejoyConference CoordinatorLive and Learn Unschooling Conferencehttp://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: lreinbach <laura@...>
My kids(ages 4 and 2.5) have a bedtime and it is mainly so I can have
some quiet time in the evening to watch tv or read. I feel like I
really need that time because I don't usually get it during the day.
At this point in my kids lives they still want me to play with them or
just sit with them while they are watching tv or whatever. So I feel
if I stop with the bedtime then I will lose my quiet, alone time. Is
that a selfish reason? How can there be a balance?
-=-=-=-=-
They're still *really* little. I can't imagine that they're even able to stay up too late! But
I have two big sleepers, so I'm always amazed at how late other kids can keep going! <g>
I think it's much more important that they learn to give you space when you need it than to set
up arbitrary bedtimes in order to get it. But they are really little! I'll use my Aunt Celie's
advice: enjoy it while you got it 'cause you're gonna miss it when it's gone!
ENJOY the time you play with them and sit with them while they watch tv! It won't last forever!
And you WILL miss it when they move on to bigger and better things!
I understand the need to have alone time. I get mine mostly in the mornings---no one's awake at
6:30 but me & the dogs! <G> You may need to alter your scheduled alone time! <g> But you can
also explain to them how you need some quiet time in the evenings. They may want to just fall
asleep in your arms as you watch tv or read. But again---they are sooo little! I bet with a
little warm milk (or nursing), a bath, and a few books or songs, they would be asleep anyway
within 1/2 hour!
We're NOT saying that such young children should be awake until you retire @ midnight! But you
*can* make bedtime a pleasant time FOR them---something they look forward to---even if that
means you get 1/2 hour less time for yourself alone.
Are they not tired at the end of the day? Do they *want* to stay up? Do they fight sleep? Do
*you* understand that they'll sleep when they're tired? Won't they???
~Kelly Kelly LovejoyConference CoordinatorLive and Learn Unschooling Conferencehttp://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
<<I really need that time>>
If you really need alone time (I know I have to have some or I am a real grouch), then by all means you should have it. The kicker is looking at the situation so nobody's needs are getting trampled on.
If you are bellowing orders about bedtime and the kids are bawling, the kids' needs are not being met.
If you are gently guiding your children toward quiet time in their room (a bedtime story, perhaps a music tape, a foot massage, etc.) and your kids are smiling as they lay down, then both needs are being met.
Anytime people are consistently being unhappy, either parent or child, the situation needs to be looked at to see where the needs aren't getting met.
Julie S.
If you really need alone time (I know I have to have some or I am a real grouch), then by all means you should have it. The kicker is looking at the situation so nobody's needs are getting trampled on.
If you are bellowing orders about bedtime and the kids are bawling, the kids' needs are not being met.
If you are gently guiding your children toward quiet time in their room (a bedtime story, perhaps a music tape, a foot massage, etc.) and your kids are smiling as they lay down, then both needs are being met.
Anytime people are consistently being unhappy, either parent or child, the situation needs to be looked at to see where the needs aren't getting met.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: lreinbach <laura@...>
Date: Thursday, November 3, 2005 5:16 pm
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: baby steps to radical unschooling
> My kids(ages 4 and 2.5) have a bedtime and it is mainly so I can have
> some quiet time in the evening to watch tv or read. I feel like I
> really need that time because I don't usually get it during the
> day.
> At this point in my kids lives they still want me to play with
> them or
> just sit with them while they are watching tv or whatever. So I feel
> if I stop with the bedtime then I will lose my quiet, alone time. Is
> that a selfish reason? How can there be a balance?
> Thanks,
> Laura
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], jnjstau@d... wrote:
> >
> > <<exactly how do you do it so everything and everyone can transition
> smoothly?>>
> >
> > I think it is different with each family and probably each
> child.
> We initially tried jumping in with both feet, dropping all controls,
> telling the kids we were dropping controls.....HUGE mistake, we were
> in absolute chaos for a long time, plus the fact that I didn't "get"
> that my needs were as important as my kids. It got pretty ugly and
> with one son we are still re-cuping from that.
> >
> > I would suggest simply thinking about what rules and limitations you
> have. Why do you have them? Are they to prevent some possible
> problem in the future (too much sugar can lead to cavities) or are
> they in place because of real, current problems (can't stay up
> late at
> night alone because continues to leave house and wander neighborhood
> even after many, many discussions of dangers)?
> >
> > When the kids ask you something, challenge yourself to try to
> find a
> way to be able to say "yes" to them and feel comfortable about it.
> Think outside the box. Try new things.
> >
> > Keep track of those off the cuff "no" answers. Were they truly
> necessary because of safety and respect issues or were you concerned
> about what "society" will think?
> >
> > Julie S.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: lreinbach <laura@r...>
> > Date: Wednesday, November 2, 2005 2:57 pm
> > Subject: [unschoolingbasics] baby steps to radical unschooling
> >
> > > This topic of unschooling and radical unschooling and
> relinquishing> > controls has been really interesting. Those of
> you who consider
> > > yourselves radical unschoolers, what are the steps to getting
> > > there?
> > > So far I have learned NOT to go cold turkey and drop all the
> controls> > that have been in place(ie. bedtimes, TV, food, etc)
> all at once. So
> > > how exactly do you do it so everything and everyone can transition
> > > smoothly?
> > > Thanks
> > > Laura
> > > mom to Ethan(4) and Luke(2.5)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> ----
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> > > project today!
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> > > -~->
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> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
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lreinbach
-
and 8. It seems like they are always doing SOMETHING around bedtime,
We usually give them a warning that we'll be heading upstairs soon to
start getting ready for bed. I think we have a nice routine. We
usually take a bath, brush teeth, get in bed and read a bedtime
story. It just seems that everytime we say it is time to get ready
for bed they find other things to do or really resist going upstairs.
Laura
mom to Ethan(4) and Luke(2.5)
> They are very little. Do they resist going to bed? Do you have anYes, sometimes they resist going to bed. Their badtime is between 7
> arbitrary time and it is "time" no matter what else is going on? Do
> you make them quit happily being involved in something because it is
> bedtime RIGHT NOW? Do you have a sweet and calm bedtime routine that
> helps them transition to sleeping time?
and 8. It seems like they are always doing SOMETHING around bedtime,
We usually give them a warning that we'll be heading upstairs soon to
start getting ready for bed. I think we have a nice routine. We
usually take a bath, brush teeth, get in bed and read a bedtime
story. It just seems that everytime we say it is time to get ready
for bed they find other things to do or really resist going upstairs.
Laura
mom to Ethan(4) and Luke(2.5)
Pamela Sorooshian
You might need to "think ahead" more -- you're building a
relationship and you might want to consider whether you want it to be
based on you being an "enforcer" or not.
Also, you might want to work a bit at being very aware of what is
going through your child's mind. For example, you say, "Ten more
minutes until bedtime, sweeties," and the child says, "But I'm
playing." You say, "I know, and you have ten more minutes to wind it
up for the night." (All done nicely and calmly, I'm sure.)
So WHAT is the child thinking? What emotions is she likely to be
experiencing?
We WISH they'd be thinking "Mom is so fair - she always give us a
warning." Or, "We'll play just five minutes more and then clean up so
we'll be ready for bed." Or, "Mom is right - even though I still want
to play, I'm getting sleepy." Or even, "Oh, good thing mom stopped us
because I really DO need to get to sleep." Or, "I'm so glad my mom
takes charge and tells me when to go to sleep. That proves she loves
me." And we hope they'll take this time to slow down their play, get
calmer, think sweet sleepy thoughts, be preparing for bedtime.
What are they really likely to be thinking?
"Oh no. She's doing it again. JUST when we're having so much fun. Why
do WE have to go to bed when SHE doesn't? It isn't FAIR. She doesn't
care. She's selfish. She's so mean." And, "I'm going to play as hard
as I can and squeeze as much as possible into those 10
minutes." (Frantic, impatient type of play ensues.) AND, "Maybe if we
play really quietly and even move to the other room, she'll
forget." (Sneaky.) Or, "What's the use, she'll win in the end, might
as well just go along." (apathy)
I'd just like to suggest that you might want to keep your
relationship in the forefront of your mind at all times - what you
build now will BE the relationship you have when they are teens. If
you're building resentment, avoidance, sneaky feelings, or apathy
now, you'll see those later. People are often so worried about what
is going to happen when their lovely sweet little children grow into
teens, renowned for being difficult, etc. Well - it isn't random
accident when teens turn out to continue to care about what their
parents think, to listen to them, to enjoy being with them, and so
on. It is thoughtful mindful parenting throughout their childhood.
-pam
PS - Just to be clear, I'm not saying having parent-imposed bedtimes
is going to lead to difficult rebellious teenagers <G>. Too simple.
I'm saying bedtimes are a good, clear issue that parents can think
about and that thinking can really help them become better parents
overall.
relationship and you might want to consider whether you want it to be
based on you being an "enforcer" or not.
Also, you might want to work a bit at being very aware of what is
going through your child's mind. For example, you say, "Ten more
minutes until bedtime, sweeties," and the child says, "But I'm
playing." You say, "I know, and you have ten more minutes to wind it
up for the night." (All done nicely and calmly, I'm sure.)
So WHAT is the child thinking? What emotions is she likely to be
experiencing?
We WISH they'd be thinking "Mom is so fair - she always give us a
warning." Or, "We'll play just five minutes more and then clean up so
we'll be ready for bed." Or, "Mom is right - even though I still want
to play, I'm getting sleepy." Or even, "Oh, good thing mom stopped us
because I really DO need to get to sleep." Or, "I'm so glad my mom
takes charge and tells me when to go to sleep. That proves she loves
me." And we hope they'll take this time to slow down their play, get
calmer, think sweet sleepy thoughts, be preparing for bedtime.
What are they really likely to be thinking?
"Oh no. She's doing it again. JUST when we're having so much fun. Why
do WE have to go to bed when SHE doesn't? It isn't FAIR. She doesn't
care. She's selfish. She's so mean." And, "I'm going to play as hard
as I can and squeeze as much as possible into those 10
minutes." (Frantic, impatient type of play ensues.) AND, "Maybe if we
play really quietly and even move to the other room, she'll
forget." (Sneaky.) Or, "What's the use, she'll win in the end, might
as well just go along." (apathy)
I'd just like to suggest that you might want to keep your
relationship in the forefront of your mind at all times - what you
build now will BE the relationship you have when they are teens. If
you're building resentment, avoidance, sneaky feelings, or apathy
now, you'll see those later. People are often so worried about what
is going to happen when their lovely sweet little children grow into
teens, renowned for being difficult, etc. Well - it isn't random
accident when teens turn out to continue to care about what their
parents think, to listen to them, to enjoy being with them, and so
on. It is thoughtful mindful parenting throughout their childhood.
-pam
PS - Just to be clear, I'm not saying having parent-imposed bedtimes
is going to lead to difficult rebellious teenagers <G>. Too simple.
I'm saying bedtimes are a good, clear issue that parents can think
about and that thinking can really help them become better parents
overall.
On Nov 4, 2005, at 10:17 AM, lreinbach wrote:
> -
>> They are very little. Do they resist going to bed? Do you have an
>> arbitrary time and it is "time" no matter what else is going on? Do
>> you make them quit happily being involved in something because it is
>> bedtime RIGHT NOW? Do you have a sweet and calm bedtime routine that
>> helps them transition to sleeping time?
>
>
> Yes, sometimes they resist going to bed. Their badtime is between 7
> and 8. It seems like they are always doing SOMETHING around bedtime,
> We usually give them a warning that we'll be heading upstairs soon to
> start getting ready for bed. I think we have a nice routine. We
> usually take a bath, brush teeth, get in bed and read a bedtime
> story. It just seems that everytime we say it is time to get ready
> for bed they find other things to do or really resist going upstairs.
> Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb
--- In [email protected], "lreinbach" <laura@r...>
wrote:
not). At age 3 my DS was sleeping from 9 pm to 8 am quite happily
(that's a good 11 hrs of sleep). Maybe do the bath and teeth and pjs
between 7 and 8 as an intro to 'quieter time'. Then, since they're all
pjd and sweet and ready for bed, put on a quiet favorite movie (fun
but gentle) and snuggle on the couch together - odds are, if they're
tired, they'll be asleep before it ends. Make sure it's a favorite
movie - one they already know - so that there's no "what happens
next?" to keep them awake - they know what happens and can watch it
over and over so no urgent reason to stay awake. If anyone is still
awake afterward, then story time in bed. Or, use quiet music or
something. Generally, I've found that if I can help DS (now 7 1/2) to
slow down for 5 minutes, if he's tired, he'll be asleep. So, we have
favorite movies, TV programs, books to read, etc and we choose -each
evening- what we'll do (currently, and since mid summer this year,
it's Who's Line is it Anyway? which is on around 10 pm most nights,
sometimes earlier, sometimes later and that's fine since DS will sleep
until he's done, whether that's 7 am or 9 am). I'm the one with the
strictest bedtime - I'm at work between 7:30 and 8:00 am Mon-Fri so I
take myself off to bed around 9 or 9:30 and my guys (DH and DS) tend
towant to come snuggle before I'm totally asleep.
Also, find out what it is that they are wanting to stay awake for - is
it to watch a program, play a game, play with particular toys? When DS
was littler, he'd often head to bed with his matchbox cars (the
favorite du jour) and after storytime he'd sit in bed and play with
them a bit until he fell asleep - then I'd go back into his room and
move them off to the small bookcase (doubled as a nightstand with his
touchlamp - 3 way cool shade touch lamp - best investment for a kid's
room ever!) that was next to his bed so he could see them right off
but not wake up with tire treads on his face.
--Deb
wrote:
> Yes, sometimes they resist going to bed. Their badtime is between 7Maybe between 7 and 8 pm is too early still for them (and again maybe
> and 8. It seems like they are always doing SOMETHING around bedtime,
> We usually give them a warning that we'll be heading upstairs soon
>to
> start getting ready for bed. I think we have a nice routine. We
> usually take a bath, brush teeth, get in bed and read a bedtime
> story. It just seems that everytime we say it is time to get ready
> for bed they find other things to do or really resist going upstairs.
> Laura
> mom to Ethan(4) and Luke(2.5)
>
not). At age 3 my DS was sleeping from 9 pm to 8 am quite happily
(that's a good 11 hrs of sleep). Maybe do the bath and teeth and pjs
between 7 and 8 as an intro to 'quieter time'. Then, since they're all
pjd and sweet and ready for bed, put on a quiet favorite movie (fun
but gentle) and snuggle on the couch together - odds are, if they're
tired, they'll be asleep before it ends. Make sure it's a favorite
movie - one they already know - so that there's no "what happens
next?" to keep them awake - they know what happens and can watch it
over and over so no urgent reason to stay awake. If anyone is still
awake afterward, then story time in bed. Or, use quiet music or
something. Generally, I've found that if I can help DS (now 7 1/2) to
slow down for 5 minutes, if he's tired, he'll be asleep. So, we have
favorite movies, TV programs, books to read, etc and we choose -each
evening- what we'll do (currently, and since mid summer this year,
it's Who's Line is it Anyway? which is on around 10 pm most nights,
sometimes earlier, sometimes later and that's fine since DS will sleep
until he's done, whether that's 7 am or 9 am). I'm the one with the
strictest bedtime - I'm at work between 7:30 and 8:00 am Mon-Fri so I
take myself off to bed around 9 or 9:30 and my guys (DH and DS) tend
towant to come snuggle before I'm totally asleep.
Also, find out what it is that they are wanting to stay awake for - is
it to watch a program, play a game, play with particular toys? When DS
was littler, he'd often head to bed with his matchbox cars (the
favorite du jour) and after storytime he'd sit in bed and play with
them a bit until he fell asleep - then I'd go back into his room and
move them off to the small bookcase (doubled as a nightstand with his
touchlamp - 3 way cool shade touch lamp - best investment for a kid's
room ever!) that was next to his bed so he could see them right off
but not wake up with tire treads on his face.
--Deb
k
Aw! What a great picture of your family. That 14 yo sounds like me
and
dh.
Kathe
Pamela Sorooshian wrote:
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
and
dh.
Kathe
Pamela Sorooshian wrote:
> With my oldest, when it seemed she was getting sleepy, I'd lie down__________________________________
> with her and I'd sing, every night, until she went to sleep. I
> sometimes had to cajole her into lying down, because she was a go-go-
> go-go kid, never wanted to rest. STILL like that. MANY nights that
> was it for me, too, I'd be out for the night. Second kid was one who
> would SAY she was sleepy and want me to go tuck her in, maybe sing a
> song or two, never more than that. Before she was four, she started
> reading and from then on she'd go get into her own bed with a PILE of
> books to read and would always fall asleep with a book in her hand.
> Third kid just fell asleep anywhere, anytime. Still does that at 14.
> Very often watching tv and sometimes with a book over her face <G>.
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