thetaberskifamily

Hey, I just posted but I have another question for everyone. What do
you tell other homeschoolers and non-homeschoolers when they ask what
you use (meaning curriculum)? Every other homeschooler that I've
come across up to this point has used a formal curriculum (typically
a comprehensive one that takes 4, 5 and 6 hours a day to get
through! UGGGHH. I've typically been saying that we take a
literature based approach...we use real books, real life and learn
about anything and everything we interested in. But I usually get
complete and total silence combined with a really confused or
mystified look (it's soooo quiet you can hear the crickets chriping
outside). Needless to say, I don't usually even get far enough in a
conversation to elaborate on how we don't use ANY formal curriculum
and don't have a schedule - I do feel that our routine gives us our
structure but we don't "do school". I have talked to Alexandra (7)
about what people mean when they ask what she is doing in "school" so
she's gotten pretty good about telling people what books we're
reading, what critters we've caught and keep, that she LOVES math and
is obsessively practicing her reading. Anyway, just wondering what
others say and if you get the same "can hear the crickets chirping"
moments?!?!

Rebecca

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/29/2005 3:04:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
thetaberskifamily@... writes:

Anyway, just wondering what
others say and if you get the same "can hear the crickets chirping"
moments?!?!



********

I have my long-winded answer that sounds impressive and makes it seem like
I've done my homework so they basically have no comment.

And always said with a confident smile :)

I say something like "Once you are out of the school paradigm of having to
address the needs of thirty students, a whole new world of educational
possibilities opens up. I find that I am able to tailor a custom curriculum for
each child, addressing his needs, interests and goals in the context of
day-to-day real life experiences."

They quit listening at "paradigm" and assume I know what I am doing.

And there is the popular unschooling joke, "we are self-directed learners,
would you pass the bean dip?"

Have fun!

Leslie in SC, who likes the term "unlimited learning" that someone around
here used once


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Donald and Sandra Winn

Dear Rebecca,

Yes, we've had those cricket chirping moments, but
really, I've stopped caring what others think.
However, I do point out how the kids are learning via
living life.

I mean this respectfully but if you were unschooled
yourself, it seems like you'd be better qualified to
answer this than most people because you're a living
example. :-) What did your mom tell others?






Happy Learning,
~Sandy
www.360.yahoo.com/aplan4life






__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com

Brandie

--- thetaberskifamily <thetaberskifamily@...>
wrote:
> What do
> you tell other homeschoolers and non-homeschoolers
> when they ask what
> you use (meaning curriculum)?

Since we tend to be closet unschoolers with those we
don't know well, I just give a vague statement such as
"a little bit of this, a little bit of that" or "we
are very eclectic -- learning from lots of different
resources". I like these because they are the truth
(important if I get to know the person better and I
wish to elaborate later on our unschooling), but
enough to satify the person who might never get to
know us further.

There's no need to say literature based unless that is
what you are doing.




Every other
> homeschooler that I've
> come across up to this point has used a formal
> curriculum (typically
> a comprehensive one that takes 4, 5 and 6 hours a
> day to get
> through! UGGGHH. I've typically been saying that
> we take a
> literature based approach...we use real books, real
> life and learn
> about anything and everything we interested in. But
> I usually get
> complete and total silence combined with a really
> confused or
> mystified look (it's soooo quiet you can hear the
> crickets chriping
> outside). Needless to say, I don't usually even get
> far enough in a
> conversation to elaborate on how we don't use ANY
> formal curriculum
> and don't have a schedule - I do feel that our
> routine gives us our
> structure but we don't "do school". I have talked
> to Alexandra (7)
> about what people mean when they ask what she is
> doing in "school" so
> she's gotten pretty good about telling people what
> books we're
> reading, what critters we've caught and keep, that
> she LOVES math and
> is obsessively practicing her reading. Anyway, just
> wondering what
> others say and if you get the same "can hear the
> crickets chirping"
> moments?!?!
>
> Rebecca
>
>
>
>
>

Brandie
http://tableforfive.blogspot.com
http://homemadeliving.blogspot.com





__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

thetaberskifamily

--- In [email protected], Donald and Sandra Winn
<aplan4life@y...> wrote:
>
> > I mean this respectfully but if you were unschooled
> yourself, it seems like you'd be better qualified to
> answer this than most people because you're a living
> example. :-) What did your mom tell others?
>
>
> Sandy,

I feel very confident about what we do and don't do....I guess I'm
still in awe at all the people still homeschooling just like we
initially started out 17 plus years ago. I was so delighted that
what my parents seemed to have stumbled onto so long ago was now
actually an entire APPROACH to homeschooling!! I assumed that most
homeschoolers would have figured it out....apparently not so. And I
believe my mom held up a smokescreen of "appropriate" sounding
educationese and nobody really did alot of indepth questioning back
then - they were typically too schocked that we were just doing it in
the first place. My father is a minister and there were some issues
in our church with families that included public school teachers. My
mom and dad always say now that my sister and I are their proof that
they did the right thing. And now interestingly enough, the public
school teacher friends are in complete agreement with ME
homeschooling - some of THEIR kids are looking into homeschooling
THEIR kids!!

Rebecca

Donald and Sandra Winn

Rebecca,

That is so great, I'm very happy for your family.
What's even cooler is to meet an unschooler who is an
adult and was a police officer...You go girl! :-)

Looking forward to seeing your emails, while on this
journey.



--- thetaberskifamily <thetaberskifamily@...>
wrote:

> --- In [email protected], Donald and
> Sandra Winn
> <aplan4life@y...> wrote:
> >
> > > I mean this respectfully but if you were
> unschooled
> > yourself, it seems like you'd be better qualified
> to
> > answer this than most people because you're a
> living
> > example. :-) What did your mom tell others?
> >
> >
> > Sandy,
>
> I feel very confident about what we do and don't
> do....I guess I'm
> still in awe at all the people still homeschooling
> just like we
> initially started out 17 plus years ago. I was so
> delighted that
> what my parents seemed to have stumbled onto so long
> ago was now
> actually an entire APPROACH to homeschooling!! I
> assumed that most
> homeschoolers would have figured it
> out....apparently not so. And I
> believe my mom held up a smokescreen of
> "appropriate" sounding
> educationese and nobody really did alot of indepth
> questioning back
> then - they were typically too schocked that we were
> just doing it in
> the first place. My father is a minister and there
> were some issues
> in our church with families that included public
> school teachers. My
> mom and dad always say now that my sister and I are
> their proof that
> they did the right thing. And now interestingly
> enough, the public
> school teacher friends are in complete agreement
> with ME
> homeschooling - some of THEIR kids are looking into
> homeschooling
> THEIR kids!!
>
> Rebecca
>
>
>
>


Happy Learning,
~Sandy
www.360.yahoo.com/aplan4life






__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com

thetaberskifamily

--- In [email protected], Brandie <scrapdiva73@y...>
wrote:

> Since we tend to be closet unschoolers with those we
> don't know well, I just give a vague statement such as
> "a little bit of this, a little bit of that" or "we
> are very eclectic -- learning from lots of different
> resources". I like these because they are the truth
> (important if I get to know the person better and I
> wish to elaborate later on our unschooling), but
> enough to satify the person who might never get to
> know us further.
>
> There's no need to say literature based unless that is
> what you are doing.
>
Brandie,

So I'm not the only closet unschooler?! Has anyone used the term among
other traditional homeschoolers? What was the reaction?

And I do consider us to take a very literature based approach...can you
unschool Charlotte Mason?!? lol Everything they have to say about
nature and living books....makes my heart feel all warm and fuzzy. At
least till you get to the structure/schedule part. Don't know why I
would "schedule" something we already do naturally.

Rebecca

thetaberskifamily

--- In [email protected], Donald and Sandra Winn
<aplan4life@y...> wrote:
>
> That is so great, I'm very happy for your family.
> What's even cooler is to meet an unschooler who is an
> adult and was a police officer...You go girl! :-)
>
> Looking forward to seeing your emails, while on this
> journey.
>
I have a college degree and can speak in complete sentences and
everything...which is waaaay more than alot of people thought would
happen back then if you homeschooled! lol lol

Thanks Sandy and I look forward to getting to know all of you!!

Rebecca

thetaberskifamily

--- In [email protected], Donald and Sandra Winn
<aplan4life@y...> wrote:
>
> That is so great, I'm very happy for your family.
> What's even cooler is to meet an unschooler who is an
> adult and was a police officer...You go girl! :-)
>
> Looking forward to seeing your emails, while on this
> journey.
>
I have a college degree and can speak in complete sentences and
everything...which is waaaay more than alot of people thought would
happen back then if you homeschooled! lol lol

Thanks Sandy and I look forward to getting to know all of you!!

Rebecca

Pamela Sorooshian

On Oct 29, 2005, at 7:54 PM, thetaberskifamily wrote:

> Don't know why I would "schedule" something we already do naturally.

LOL - because, for some people, learning doesn't COUNT unless it was
on the schedule!

-pam



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

thetaberskifamily

--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@e...> wrote:
>
>
> On Oct 29, 2005, at 7:54 PM, thetaberskifamily wrote:
>
> > Don't know why I would "schedule" something we already do naturally.
>
> LOL - because, for some people, learning doesn't COUNT unless it was
> on the schedule!
>
> -pam

It took a while for my husband to start to "get" this. That Allie
practiced her reading at night (not during typical school hours)
snuggled on my lap and because she so desperately wants to really,
really be a real, real reader (lol), that getting her allowance and
spending and budgeting (for her layaway projects!) and playing
monopoly, etc. were all "math" (and she thinks it's a blast), that
writing her thank you cards, notes, memory verses and scrapbook
journaling (!!!) are all writing, and that all the great books that we
read and shows that we watch, exploring that we do and trips we take
cover history, science, and so on! And these are things she loves to
do...why tell her to stop so we can do something artificial and
contrived in it's place?! I do believe he has accepted that all as
being what he needs to call "school" but we just call life and real
learning. And on the same note...all those activities DO require some
planning. The games and books, etc. don't just magically fly off the
shelf and set themselves up. I need to be mindful of my kids'
requests, desires and interests and available to make the time to the
fun things they like to do and include them in all that I do.

Note: If I am rambling it is only because I have completely exhausted
my family and friends with my ramblings, can't do so at the homeschool
group get-togethers that I'm part of and (apparently) am desperately in
need of someone to ramble on and on and on to! So thank you!

Rebecca

Robyn Coburn

<<<<< obsessively practicing her reading. >>>

I guess the tiny bit of schoolthink lurking in your mind, (or vocabulary)
here is the concept of "practicing" her reading. Practicing for what?

<<<< cover history, science, and so on >>>

One thing that we encourage people to do is let go of seeing everything they
do in terms of labeling it schoolish subjects in favor of living life and
seeing unlimited connections. Certainly that can result in a bit of double
think in States that require assessments. The next mental step is to focus
on what they are doing instead of trying to quantify what they are learning.


Unschoolers aren't practicing for life. Unschoolers don't make cookies to
learn math. They make cookies to make cookies - math understanding happens
as a side effect.

Unschoolers read (or ask to be read to) because they are interested in the
content of the material. Getting better at reading happens as a side effect.

I suspect that is what is actually happening at your house. However by
obsessively ;) questioning our own word use we can sometimes discover
assumptions hiding in our heads unwittingly.

That is why I would ask you to not merely be satisfied with all the
demonstrably wonderful ways that you *are* living joyfully and mindfully
with your children.

Instead I would ask you to push just a little further and examine for
yourself the non-Unschooling ideas that some of your words revealed. Those
examinations may lead you to climb all the way to the top of the mountain
where the view is even better, instead of stopping at the penultimate
plateau.

<<<<we don't offer them the choice>>>>>

<<<<< We work together and we all have our own jobs and
responsibilities.>>>>

<<<<<<I would have a problem with that.>>>>>

<<<<<<The girls don't choose >>>>>

<<<<< I don't consider that an option >>>>>

One purpose of this list is not to support people in remaining static, but
to help them think even more deeply about Unschooling and move forward in
that journey.


Robyn L. Coburn

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/150 - Release Date: 10/27/2005

Angela

<<Instead I would ask you to push just a little further and examine for
yourself the non-Unschooling ideas that some of your words revealed. Those
examinations may lead you to climb all the way to the top of the mountain
where the view is even better, instead of stopping at the penultimate
plateau.>>

Penultimate Plateau. Hey, I know what that means! :) LOL!


Angela ~ Who just read the next to the last book "The Penultimate Peril,
in A Series of Unfortunate Events by Lemony Snicket.


game-enthusiast@...

[email protected]

>>So I'm not the only closet unschooler?! Has anyone used the term among
other traditional homeschoolers? What was the reaction?>>

I'm definitely OUT of the closet! <g> Some traditional homeschoolers choose not to hang around with us but I find that's okay. I've found so many more like-minded families by being open about Who We Are and how we live.

--
~Mary

"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

>>Penultimate Plateau. Hey, I know what that means! :) LOL!


Angela ~ Who just read the next to the last book "The Penultimate Peril,
in A Series of Unfortunate Events by Lemony Snicket.>>

Oh too funny! I was thinking the same thing!

--
~Mary, halfway through The PP ;-)

"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."

scrapdiva73

--- In [email protected], "thetaberskifamily"
<thetaberskifamily@y...> wrote:
> So I'm not the only closet unschooler?! Has anyone used the term
among other traditional homeschoolers? What was the reaction?
>


Ooops, sorry, I might not have made myself clear. I consider us in
the closet about our unschooling with non-homeschoolers that I don't
know well, but with other homeschoolers, I always share that we
unschool. I actually love telling homeschoolers that we unschool. I
guess I like the debate that sometimes comes with those who homeschool
(sometimes there is no debate, but just honest interest, which is
always cool). But, I am very vocal about our unschooling with
homeschoolers.

But with your usual non-homeschool people I just meet, I don't usually
share that I unschool. For example, I just met a mom at the library
and she commented about "is there no school today?" upon seeing the
kids at the library with me during school hours. I responded with "I
don't have a clue...we homeschool".

I do want to share unschooling with even more people, so I am trying
to find easy ways to explain unschooling confidently to just about
anyone. I need a bumpersticker for my car. I want to be like Heidi
in Alaska when I grow up <g>.

Brandie

scrapdiva73

--- Donald and Sandra Winn <aplan4life@y...> wrote:
> I mean this respectfully but if you were unschooled
> yourself, it seems like you'd be better qualified to
> answer this than most people because you're a living
> example. :-)

I am pretty sure I read that she was homeschooled -- not unschooled.

Brandie

Donald and Sandra Winn

"I am pretty sure I read that she was homeschooled --
not unschooled.

Brandie"

Down at the very bottom of her initial email, Rebecca
said that they were unschooled.

"By the way, my parents "unschooled" my sister and I
after one hideous
year with ACE worktexts but they did so in the same
way I've laid out
above. So, maybe after your responses I'll discover
that they
didn't "unschool" us at all!"

Rebecca, have you been able to clarity whether your
parents and yourself unschool? A good way to answer
this is... If your children didn't want to read for a
month, would you make them anyway? Not that they
wouldn't but this helps to answer. You can apply the
same to writing. If your children said, "Mom, I don't
want to journal" and they didn't journal for a year,
would you make them or try to coerce them?

If so, then I would say you are more than likely
"relaxed" homeschoolers, not unschoolers. However,
I'm still new too, so for your seasoned unschoolers,
isn't that basically how you know whether or not you
are truly "unschooling" school?









Happy Learning,
~Sandy
www.360.yahoo.com/aplan4life






__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com

scrapdiva73

--- Donald and Sandra Winn <aplan4life@y...> wrote:
> Down at the very bottom of her initial email, Rebecca
> said that they were unschooled.
>

Ah, okay...missed that part. In the very beginning of the same email
it said her sister and her were homeschooled so that stuck in my head.

Brandie

thetaberskifamily

--- In [email protected], "Robyn Coburn"
<dezigna@c...> wrote:
>
> <<<<< obsessively practicing her reading. >>>
>
> I guess the tiny bit of schoolthink lurking in your mind, (or
vocabulary)
> here is the concept of "practicing" her reading. Practicing for
what?

But she IS "practicing" her reading - she's 7 and she has reached a
point where it has started to click and she is practicing her reading
just like she practices her cheerleading routine or her cross stitch
or whatever...so she can become more fluent, obtain a goal, etc. She
doesn't appear to be particularly enjoying the content of what she
picks out and chooses to read...she's just thrilled that she can READ
it!! Yeah! That is practicing.

> <<<< cover history, science, and so on >>>
>
> One thing that we encourage people to do is let go of seeing
everything they
> do in terms of labeling it schoolish subjects in favor of living
life and
> seeing unlimited connections.

I certainly don't sit around all day worrying if we're
covering "subjects"...I just think it's interesting how much history
(and it IS history), science (and it IS science) you learn in the
course of your daily life and through pursuing your interests. And
my husband is in a very "traditional" school mindset...we need to
label to a degree.
>
> That is why I would ask you to not merely be satisfied with all the
> demonstrably wonderful ways that you *are* living joyfully and
mindfully
> with your children.
>
> <<<<we don't offer them the choice>>>>>
>
> <<<<< We work together and we all have our own jobs and
> responsibilities.>>>>
>
> <<<<<<I would have a problem with that.>>>>>
>
> <<<<<<The girls don't choose >>>>>
>
> <<<<< I don't consider that an option >>>>>
>
> One purpose of this list is not to support people in remaining
static, but
> to help them think even more deeply about Unschooling and move
forward in
> that journey.

But I don't have a problem with there being some things that our
children don't necessarily have a choice in - I guess I don't get
exactly what you're saying. When you're getting ready to run
errands do you give a 5 and 7 year old a choice, ask them if they
want to go? And if they don't...do you leave them, find a sitter so
you can go to the post office or whatever or just not go because they
don't feel like it? I don't really think that's what you
mean...right? For us the same applies to going to church together,
helping around the house, etc.

And I honestly don't know what I would do if Allie just said she
didn't want to read or write or anything for a month. I don't push
her, she initiates, I initiate, but it's her interest in what we do
that determines what and how long. She's gone longer periods (entire
summer and early fall) without reading. I presented opportunities
(real life and interest related) but if she balked I backed off.
When she's ready for something she lets me know and it takes it so
much farther when we have that. But the opportunities are always
offered or available.

Rebecca

thetaberskifamily

--- In [email protected], "Robyn Coburn"
<dezigna@c...> wrote:
>
> <<<<< obsessively practicing her reading. >>>
>
> I guess the tiny bit of schoolthink lurking in your mind, (or
vocabulary)
> here is the concept of "practicing" her reading. Practicing for
what?

But she IS "practicing" her reading - she's 7 and she has reached a
point where it has started to click and she is practicing her reading
just like she practices her cheerleading routine or her cross stitch
or whatever...so she can become more fluent, obtain a goal, etc. She
doesn't appear to be particularly enjoying the content of what she
picks out and chooses to read...she's just thrilled that she can READ
it!! Yeah! That is practicing.

> <<<< cover history, science, and so on >>>
>
> One thing that we encourage people to do is let go of seeing
everything they
> do in terms of labeling it schoolish subjects in favor of living
life and
> seeing unlimited connections.

I certainly don't sit around all day worrying if we're
covering "subjects"...I just think it's interesting how much history
(and it IS history), science (and it IS science) you learn in the
course of your daily life and through pursuing your interests. And
my husband is in a very "traditional" school mindset...we need to
label to a degree.
>
> That is why I would ask you to not merely be satisfied with all the
> demonstrably wonderful ways that you *are* living joyfully and
mindfully
> with your children.
>
> <<<<we don't offer them the choice>>>>>
>
> <<<<< We work together and we all have our own jobs and
> responsibilities.>>>>
>
> <<<<<<I would have a problem with that.>>>>>
>
> <<<<<<The girls don't choose >>>>>
>
> <<<<< I don't consider that an option >>>>>
>
> One purpose of this list is not to support people in remaining
static, but
> to help them think even more deeply about Unschooling and move
forward in
> that journey.

But I don't have a problem with there being some things that our
children don't necessarily have a choice in - I guess I don't get
exactly what you're saying. When you're getting ready to run
errands do you give a 5 and 7 year old a choice, ask them if they
want to go? And if they don't...do you leave them, find a sitter so
you can go to the post office or whatever or just not go because they
don't feel like it? I don't really think that's what you
mean...right? For us the same applies to going to church together,
helping around the house, etc.

And I honestly don't know what I would do if Allie just said she
didn't want to read or write or anything for a month. I don't push
her, she initiates, I initiate, but it's her interest in what we do
that determines what and how long. She's gone longer periods (entire
summer and early fall) without reading. I presented opportunities
(real life and interest related) but if she balked I backed off.
When she's ready for something she lets me know and it takes it so
much farther when we have that. But the opportunities are always
offered or available.

Rebecca

[email protected]

>>I certainly don't sit around all day worrying if we're
covering "subjects"...I just think it's interesting how much history
(and it IS history), science (and it IS science) you learn in the
course of your daily life and through pursuing your interests. >>

It's never really *just* history or *just* science though. It's sort of narrowing the activity or the learning to think in those terms too much. There's so much overlap in learning because everthing's connected. It's a web. Science has it's place inhistory which relates to social customs of the day which is found in its literature and art, etc. That's why it's freeing to see beyond subjects. There's so much more than the way schools divide the world up.

>>When you're getting ready to run
errands do you give a 5 and 7 year old a choice, ask them if they
want to go?>>

It depends. If someone else was there to stay with them I would.

If it was just me and the kids, I wouldn't ask them each time we were going out. At that age my kids usually liked running errands with me so I wouldn't have wanted to plant the idea that it wasn't going to be fun. BUT...if one of them came to me and said they were in the middle of something and really didn't want to go, I'd evaluate the importance of the errand at that moment. I'd see what was stopping them from going. I'd see if I could make the errand more appealing in some way. I tried not to just lay down the law because I had an errand.

There were lots of things I saved to do until their dad was home. When I really thought about it, most things weren't critical to do at a certain time. I guess doctors appointments, that kind of thing. But since my kids knew I wasn't always insisting they go out when they had other plans for themselves, they were good about accomodating me when I needed it. I also gave lots of warning about things like errands. Casey in particular needed time to warm up to any idea or outing or visit.

--
~Mary, unschooling mom to Conor (16) and Casey (11)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CorvallisTLC/

"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."

Donald and Sandra Winn

"And I honestly don't know what I would do if Allie
just said she didn't want to read or write or
anything for a month."

This is where unschooling differs from other
homeschooling philosophies. :-) A person comfortable
in homeschooling would relax and not think that there
is anything wrong with that, KWIM? It is about
trusting the child to learn what they want in his or
her own way, at their own leisure. It is up to the
unschooling parent to provide for their needs and give
them opportunities to explore their passions.

I loved CM and went to that in my first year of
homeschooling. However, even though it is an awesome
method, it still separates "school time from free
time." That method leaves the afternoon for exploring
interest. It's a great method! Gentle, relaxed,
interest led, but it is not unschooling. Unschooling
happens 365/7 and all hours of the day, it is never
limited by "what must be done" or what we parents deem
is important.


"I don't push her, she initiates, I initiate, but it's
her interest in what we do that determines what and
how long. She's gone longer periods (entire summer
and early fall) without reading. I presented
opportunities (real life and interest related) but if
she balked I backed off. When she's ready for
something she lets me know and it takes it so much
farther when we have that. But the opportunities are
always offered or available."

Again, unschooling is everyday, summer and weekends
the learning continues, be it reading, or whatever.
Unschoolers see learning in everything and everywhere.
If when the summer roles around and you start
"school" and say you need to read, BUT you can choose
the material, that isn't unschooling. It's interest
led and relaxed but not unschooling. No one is
begrudging you or anything like that, it you guys are
happy great... :-)

I'm still learning unschooling too and it has taken me
awhile to let go of control and trust my children.
But we absolutely love this lifestyle and we're so
much happier as a family. My husband allows me to
unschool the children, at first he was not happy but
now he is starting to ease off and trust
me...afterall, I'm the one who has studied
philosophies for over 3 years.LOL

Rebecca, whatever you are doing is great! But you
wanted to know whether or not you were truly
"unschooling", just trying to help you understand the
philosophy behind it.

The way I explained it to you was pretty much the way
that Ren explained it to me. At first, I was a little
taken back, now, I've been moving forward and with the
wonderful support from these women, we're moving along
fine, even though being a newby, I'll have my insanity
moments and need support. ;-)

Rebecca
>
>
>
>
>


Happy Learning,
~Sandy
www.360.yahoo.com/aplan4life







__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

Danielle Conger

thetaberskifamily wrote:

> But I don't have a problem with there being some things that our
> children don't necessarily have a choice in - I guess I don't get
> exactly what you're saying. When you're getting ready to run
> errands do you give a 5 and 7 year old a choice, ask them if they
> want to go? And if they don't...do you leave them, find a sitter so
> you can go to the post office or whatever or just not go because they
> don't feel like it? I don't really think that's what you
> mean...right? For us the same applies to going to church together,
> helping around the house, etc.

Ummm, yes, that is what *I* personally would mean in terms of choice.
There is *always* a choice. The fact that parents present things as if
there is no choice is more a matter of parental convenience than fact.
The fact that many people choose to view situations in their lives as
mandatory is a matter of unfortunate avoidance and disempowerment. If
you want to consider the difference between choice and have to a bit
more, there are some interesting riffs collected here:
http://sandradodd.com/unschool/haveto

When I need to run errands, I don't "have to" run them at any particular
point in my day or week. I can be considerate of others when asking them
to come with me or I can not--that, too, is a choice.

When I want to run errands, I tell my kids (8, 6 and 5) where I would
like to go that day and ask them what time that day would work for them.
Generally speaking, the answer is after Tom & Jerry because that's their
favorite show these days. I don't *have to* ask my kids, but I choose to
show the same Consideration for them that I would show my partner, a
guest or a friend.

--
~~Danielle
Emily (8), Julia (6), Sam (5)
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

"With our thoughts, we make the world." ~~Buddha

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/30/2005 3:23:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
thetaberskifamily@... writes:

But I don't have a problem with there being some things that our
children don't necessarily have a choice in - I guess I don't get
exactly what you're saying. When you're getting ready to run
errands do you give a 5 and 7 year old a choice, ask them if they
want to go? And if they don't...do you leave them, find a sitter so
you can go to the post office or whatever or just not go because they
don't feel like it? I don't really think that's what you
mean...right? For us the same applies to going to church together,
helping around the house, etc.




******************

This is where your life is so different from mine. My children are
extremely vocal about what they want to and don't want to do. When we have options
and I can give them a choice, I do. They also understand that sometimes we
don't. For example, my husband is overseas and my kids can't veto a trip to
the grocery store, but if someone doesn't want to go "now", we discuss that.
They are also willing to give a little because they see there are limited
options right now. My kids, even as little ones, were never interested in
helping around the house.

I have an unschooling friend whose children just always go along. In fact,
she can get away with doing some math worksheets and teachy things because
her children are quite happy to do nearly anything she asks. It isn't that she
never considers her children, it is just that she rarely *has* to.

Since I have the kids that I have, I often wonder if it is harder for people
with more compliant children to know what they need. Since my babies
refused to be put down, I always wonder if those "babies in buckets" are getting
enough arm time. I have had to examine and examine and examine my motives with
my children to make sure I am reducing the arbitrary have-to's and limits so
I won't be forcing them to compromise needlessly. Other people can *choose*
to make these examinations.

Of course, this is what led me to unschooling. :)

Leslie in SC


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

On Oct 30, 2005, at 12:22 PM, thetaberskifamily wrote:

> I certainly don't sit around all day worrying if we're
> covering "subjects"...I just think it's interesting how much history
> (and it IS history), science (and it IS science) .....

And sometimes history IS science and science IS history.

By the way has anybody read any of Joy Hakim's newer series, "The
Story of Science?"

"In this six book series, author Joy Hakim traces the evolution of
scientific thought from ancient times to the present. With lively,
character-driven narrative, Hakim highlights the curiosity of the
world's greatest scientists, and encourages a similar spirit of
inquiry in the readers. "

So - is it science or history? Or maybe even literature or geography
or (for those who have seen it) art?

-pam



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

thetaberskifamily

--- In [email protected], zenmomma@c... wrote:
>
> It's never really *just* history or *just* science though. It's
sort of narrowing the activity or the learning to think in those
terms too much. There's so much overlap in learning because
everthing's connected. It's a web. Science has it's place inhistory
which relates to social customs of the day which is found in its
literature and art, etc. That's why it's freeing to see beyond
subjects. There's so much more than the way schools divide the world
up.
If it was just me and the kids, I wouldn't ask them each time we were
going out. At that age my kids usually liked running errands with me
so I wouldn't have wanted to plant the idea that it wasn't going to
be fun. BUT...if one of them came to me and said they were in the
middle of something and really didn't want to go, I'd evaluate the
importance of the errand at that moment. I'd see what was stopping
them from going. I'd see if I could make the errand more appealing in
some way. I tried not to just lay down the law because I had an
errand.
>
> There were lots of things I saved to do until their dad was home.
When I really thought about it, most things weren't critical to do
at a certain time. I guess doctors appointments, that kind of thing.
But since my kids knew I wasn't always insisting they go out when
they had other plans for themselves, they were good about
accomodating me when I needed it. I also gave lots of warning about
things like errands. Casey in particular needed time to warm up to
any idea or outing or visit.
>


I completely agree with you Mary. One of the joys of unschooling is
to see everything as a whole and not as chopped up into individual
subjects.

My kids too enjoy running errands, etc. and we don't have an issue
with it...maybe they are as someone else said "compliant" children
but to honest if we were all ready, with little Zach and whoever else
in the van and Allie or Libby announced that they did not want to
go...we'd still go. I wouldn't be angry or all controlling
about...we would just go. We'd talk about and they'd get in and we'd
go. Not that I can really see that scenario happening and it being
a problem but hey, who knows?!

I think there's alot of thinking and overthinking going on when it
comes to running errands, appointments, helping out, etc. My
goodness. I don't really think that that's unschooling...I think
that's more a difference in parenting styles.

Rebecca

thetaberskifamily

--- In [email protected], zenmomma@c... wrote:
>
> It's never really *just* history or *just* science though. It's
sort of narrowing the activity or the learning to think in those
terms too much. There's so much overlap in learning because
everthing's connected. It's a web. Science has it's place inhistory
which relates to social customs of the day which is found in its
literature and art, etc. That's why it's freeing to see beyond
subjects. There's so much more than the way schools divide the world
up.
If it was just me and the kids, I wouldn't ask them each time we were
going out. At that age my kids usually liked running errands with me
so I wouldn't have wanted to plant the idea that it wasn't going to
be fun. BUT...if one of them came to me and said they were in the
middle of something and really didn't want to go, I'd evaluate the
importance of the errand at that moment. I'd see what was stopping
them from going. I'd see if I could make the errand more appealing in
some way. I tried not to just lay down the law because I had an
errand.
>
> There were lots of things I saved to do until their dad was home.
When I really thought about it, most things weren't critical to do
at a certain time. I guess doctors appointments, that kind of thing.
But since my kids knew I wasn't always insisting they go out when
they had other plans for themselves, they were good about
accomodating me when I needed it. I also gave lots of warning about
things like errands. Casey in particular needed time to warm up to
any idea or outing or visit.
>


I completely agree with you Mary. One of the joys of unschooling is
to see everything as a whole and not as chopped up into individual
subjects.

My kids too enjoy running errands, etc. and we don't have an issue
with it...maybe they are as someone else said "compliant" children
but to honest if we were all ready, with little Zach and whoever else
in the van and Allie or Libby announced that they did not want to
go...we'd still go. I wouldn't be angry or all controlling
about...we would just go. We'd talk about and they'd get in and we'd
go. Not that I can really see that scenario happening and it being
a problem but hey, who knows?!

I think there's alot of thinking and overthinking going on when it
comes to running errands, appointments, helping out, etc. My
goodness. I don't really think that that's unschooling...I think
that's more a difference in parenting styles.

Rebecca

thetaberskifamily

--- In [email protected], Donald and Sandra Winn
<aplan4life@y...> wrote:
>
>
> "I don't push her, she initiates, I initiate, but it's
> her interest in what we do that determines what and
> how long. She's gone longer periods (entire summer
> and early fall) without reading. I presented
> opportunities (real life and interest related) but if
> she balked I backed off. When she's ready for
> something she lets me know and it takes it so much
> farther when we have that. But the opportunities are
> always offered or available."
>
> Again, unschooling is everyday, summer and weekends
> the learning continues, be it reading, or whatever.
> Unschoolers see learning in everything and everywhere.
> If when the summer roles around and you start
> "school" and say you need to read, BUT you can choose
> the material, that isn't unschooling. It's interest
> led and relaxed but not unschooling. No one is
> begrudging you or anything like that, it you guys are
> happy great... :-)

Yes. I completely agree with you. And no, we don't do school work,
we don't have school time or a special learning time. No, we don't
take summer breaks - learning goes on all year round! And yes, when
Allie announced while we were cooking that she wished she could read
the recipe, I told her that she would learn to read more as time went
on and that if she would like we could read more together and
practice (yes practice) just like with her cheerleading routine or
riding her bike, once she practiced, the more she practiced the
easier it would become. And we looked and looked together and found
different ways that she enjoyed to practice her reading....I think
that that is unschooling.

Rebecca

thetaberskifamily

--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@e...> wrote:
>
>
> > By the way has anybody read any of Joy Hakim's newer series, "The
> Story of Science?"
>
> So - is it science or history? Or maybe even literature or geography
> or (for those who have seen it) art?
>
> -pam
>
It sounds like it's all of the above and probably more.

Rebecca