Detoxing
Joanne
I just need to connect with the group. We are new to unschooling
and actually feel that the best match for our son and our family
would be what is now loosely described as radical unschooling. But
my dh and I are really detoxing! I will only speak for myself from
this point on but I feel like I am on an emotional roller coaster.
Ds (5) digss up all the shale from the back path to make a volcano.
DH and I both have strong feelings but work it through had allow him
to proceed without dumping any further judgment on him. He makes an
awesome volcano which then the family fills with baking soda and
vinegar and it erupts. It was just great. Another episode, DS is
now choosing to stay up very late (way past us guessing 3:00 a.m. or
so) and is sleeping past noon. When we wake him for his horseback
riding lesson he is angry that he has been woken. Now dh and I are
wondering if we are doing the wrong thing allowing him to choose
when he is sleeping half the day and so cranky. Another episode, ds
goes to store and gets overstimulated (my fault ad choice for him)
and climbs up the metal staircase for employees and won't get down.
Then when he does runs all over the store as I try to chase him (and
catch him). When I catch him his body almost seems to relax. I
then carry him out of the store. I feel frazzled but glad I can
talk with him calming not get angry. Another on going challenge ds
just takes something he does want and throws it on the floor. (I
have asked if he could put it in the garbage or give it to me or
leave it on the table.....) Another episode, after dinner Ds wants
me to play tag (again) with he and his friend. I say (which is
consistent on my part) that after dinner mommy likes to wind down.
I like to read and be quieter and get ready for bed. I would be
happy to watch a movie with him. He then gets angry and tells me
that Since I don't do his needs he is not listening to me. This
time I wait. He doesn't throw his food on the floor, he doesn't run
out the door, he doesn't start knocking things over. But he has
done all of those things at others times this week. So I guess I am
saying that we are transitioning and like giving birth it is
uncomfortable and hard work at times. I am not someone who cries
easily and yet I feel teary. I am tired. I am sad for the time I
had put him in school. I am frustrated that I can't reach him
better at times. I am ashamed that I don't know more about what to
do to diffuse the situation. I offer to come close. I offer to
hold him. I offer to give him space. I just want someone to know
that we are hurting. When you drink too much and discover you are
an alcoholic, one can chose to detox and then begin to recover one
day at a time. Well we lived a way that was unhelpful to ds and
have discovered that we need to detox from not only school and
expectations but our own upbringings. We have a strong desire to
find a new way for ds and us but it is really hard right now. I
just didn't want to be alone with all of these new feelings. Sorry
for the lengthy share. I just needed to know someone out there
might be able to offer me some hope. Joanne
and actually feel that the best match for our son and our family
would be what is now loosely described as radical unschooling. But
my dh and I are really detoxing! I will only speak for myself from
this point on but I feel like I am on an emotional roller coaster.
Ds (5) digss up all the shale from the back path to make a volcano.
DH and I both have strong feelings but work it through had allow him
to proceed without dumping any further judgment on him. He makes an
awesome volcano which then the family fills with baking soda and
vinegar and it erupts. It was just great. Another episode, DS is
now choosing to stay up very late (way past us guessing 3:00 a.m. or
so) and is sleeping past noon. When we wake him for his horseback
riding lesson he is angry that he has been woken. Now dh and I are
wondering if we are doing the wrong thing allowing him to choose
when he is sleeping half the day and so cranky. Another episode, ds
goes to store and gets overstimulated (my fault ad choice for him)
and climbs up the metal staircase for employees and won't get down.
Then when he does runs all over the store as I try to chase him (and
catch him). When I catch him his body almost seems to relax. I
then carry him out of the store. I feel frazzled but glad I can
talk with him calming not get angry. Another on going challenge ds
just takes something he does want and throws it on the floor. (I
have asked if he could put it in the garbage or give it to me or
leave it on the table.....) Another episode, after dinner Ds wants
me to play tag (again) with he and his friend. I say (which is
consistent on my part) that after dinner mommy likes to wind down.
I like to read and be quieter and get ready for bed. I would be
happy to watch a movie with him. He then gets angry and tells me
that Since I don't do his needs he is not listening to me. This
time I wait. He doesn't throw his food on the floor, he doesn't run
out the door, he doesn't start knocking things over. But he has
done all of those things at others times this week. So I guess I am
saying that we are transitioning and like giving birth it is
uncomfortable and hard work at times. I am not someone who cries
easily and yet I feel teary. I am tired. I am sad for the time I
had put him in school. I am frustrated that I can't reach him
better at times. I am ashamed that I don't know more about what to
do to diffuse the situation. I offer to come close. I offer to
hold him. I offer to give him space. I just want someone to know
that we are hurting. When you drink too much and discover you are
an alcoholic, one can chose to detox and then begin to recover one
day at a time. Well we lived a way that was unhelpful to ds and
have discovered that we need to detox from not only school and
expectations but our own upbringings. We have a strong desire to
find a new way for ds and us but it is really hard right now. I
just didn't want to be alone with all of these new feelings. Sorry
for the lengthy share. I just needed to know someone out there
might be able to offer me some hope. Joanne
Ren Allen
"Ds (5) digss up all the shale from the back path to make a volcano.
DH and I both have strong feelings but work it through had allow him
to proceed without dumping any further judgment on him."
I think that's really COOl that you could stand back and watch his
creative genius at work! Very cool.
I think I would offer to set up an area with his own rocks and
materials for future use, so you can have your path too.
Sometimes, when things like this come up, I try to imagine a few years
down the road....looking back, a messed up path won't seem like such a
big deal. If I really liked my path and didn't want it messed up
though, I'd let my children know it wasn't ok. I'd load them into the
van and head to the nearest home improvement store to get them volcano
materials!!
I'm having trouble cutting and pasting tonight..so I'm going on memory
from here on;
As far as running up a metal staircase and running all over the
store...If I knew my child was overstimulated, I would try to leave
very quickly. I get very firm when my children are heading into
something that is either dangerous or off limits. By firm, that means
I state very loudly "STOP" or something to that effect. By saving a
firm voice for important moments, they usually freeze and look at me.
Not always.
I have a four year old that is VERY high energy, VERY independent and
VERY destructive at times. It sometimes means a physical restraint of
some kind, which these days involves picking him up and holding him
until I can be sure it is safe to put him down.
When I'm holding him and talking to him, he is more likely to really
hear me.
If you have a child that is running from you, there could be many
issues you need to explore. WHY is he running away from you? Is he
fearful because of past experience? Or is he simply feeling he can
ignore you because you aren't trustworthy?
It sounds like he is really being hurtful at times, which in his world
isn't intentional, but may be a method of finding out how you're going
to react.
If he isn't sure what kind of response he'll get, he's lacking trust.
So this could be some transitional stuff, but you might need to set
better personal boundaries.
I don't let people hurt my stuff, I don't let people hurt me if I can
help it. Children OR adult.
So if he's acting hurtful, that might be a sign that he's lacking
trust and needs you to say "STOP, that isn't ok to do to me or my stuff".
I really need more information about the sleep thing to be much help
there. If his natural bio-rhythm is to be up late and sleep in,
finding ways to accomodate his new schedule will be helpful.
I have a feeling he's just testing out this new freedom and trying to
suck up every moment because he fears it might be taken away.
Is he keeping anyone awake?
Is he doing anything harmful?
Jalen (the aforementioned four year old) often stays up after everyone
else. If the house is dark and everyone asleep, he can be easily
trusted to turn off the tv, the lights and come crawl into bed with me
when he's done.
This is a child that can do some amazingly crazy things in the waking
hours!! So you never know.
Just today, he exploded a fluorescent bulb (and I mean EXPLODED, my
room was covered in glass) and stood out on a busy street, explaining
that he was looking out for cars. Yikes.
But I don't worry about him at night, up alone. Go figure. You know
your child best that way, so if he's safe and happy, let him be.
My concern would be that he's trying to understand how you will react,
and staying up alone might be a recipe for disaster. Jalen has never
had a bedtime, so he doesn't have those issues.
As far as throwing things down on the floor, I'd say "HEY, that
belongs in the garbage, not on my floor!!" and make sure there was a
garbage somewhere nearby to facilitate easy clean up.
Jalen went through that for years. We mostly cleaned up after him and
pointed out that we wanted these items in the garbage.
He does pretty good now, better than his older brothers usually!:)
I make sure to have a garbage in every room, kids of all ages will
toss wrappers in the darndest places if you don't.
I think a lot of this is transitional. "No" isn't a bad word though.
It's just lame if you haven't thought through the options. If someone
wants to break an item I love, "NO" is GOOD.
Radical unschooling is a huge transition for a family to make. You
might be going through some rough stuff for a while, in the mean time,
know that it's ok to stop harmful things from happening. Respecting
yourself is part of the package.
Saying "yes" more and more is usually the recommended path for this
transition, rather than changing all behavior overnight.
Tell us more about how you eased into radical unschooling and whether
or not you made some sort of announcement that there were no rules.
Hang in there...it will get better.
Ren
DH and I both have strong feelings but work it through had allow him
to proceed without dumping any further judgment on him."
I think that's really COOl that you could stand back and watch his
creative genius at work! Very cool.
I think I would offer to set up an area with his own rocks and
materials for future use, so you can have your path too.
Sometimes, when things like this come up, I try to imagine a few years
down the road....looking back, a messed up path won't seem like such a
big deal. If I really liked my path and didn't want it messed up
though, I'd let my children know it wasn't ok. I'd load them into the
van and head to the nearest home improvement store to get them volcano
materials!!
I'm having trouble cutting and pasting tonight..so I'm going on memory
from here on;
As far as running up a metal staircase and running all over the
store...If I knew my child was overstimulated, I would try to leave
very quickly. I get very firm when my children are heading into
something that is either dangerous or off limits. By firm, that means
I state very loudly "STOP" or something to that effect. By saving a
firm voice for important moments, they usually freeze and look at me.
Not always.
I have a four year old that is VERY high energy, VERY independent and
VERY destructive at times. It sometimes means a physical restraint of
some kind, which these days involves picking him up and holding him
until I can be sure it is safe to put him down.
When I'm holding him and talking to him, he is more likely to really
hear me.
If you have a child that is running from you, there could be many
issues you need to explore. WHY is he running away from you? Is he
fearful because of past experience? Or is he simply feeling he can
ignore you because you aren't trustworthy?
It sounds like he is really being hurtful at times, which in his world
isn't intentional, but may be a method of finding out how you're going
to react.
If he isn't sure what kind of response he'll get, he's lacking trust.
So this could be some transitional stuff, but you might need to set
better personal boundaries.
I don't let people hurt my stuff, I don't let people hurt me if I can
help it. Children OR adult.
So if he's acting hurtful, that might be a sign that he's lacking
trust and needs you to say "STOP, that isn't ok to do to me or my stuff".
I really need more information about the sleep thing to be much help
there. If his natural bio-rhythm is to be up late and sleep in,
finding ways to accomodate his new schedule will be helpful.
I have a feeling he's just testing out this new freedom and trying to
suck up every moment because he fears it might be taken away.
Is he keeping anyone awake?
Is he doing anything harmful?
Jalen (the aforementioned four year old) often stays up after everyone
else. If the house is dark and everyone asleep, he can be easily
trusted to turn off the tv, the lights and come crawl into bed with me
when he's done.
This is a child that can do some amazingly crazy things in the waking
hours!! So you never know.
Just today, he exploded a fluorescent bulb (and I mean EXPLODED, my
room was covered in glass) and stood out on a busy street, explaining
that he was looking out for cars. Yikes.
But I don't worry about him at night, up alone. Go figure. You know
your child best that way, so if he's safe and happy, let him be.
My concern would be that he's trying to understand how you will react,
and staying up alone might be a recipe for disaster. Jalen has never
had a bedtime, so he doesn't have those issues.
As far as throwing things down on the floor, I'd say "HEY, that
belongs in the garbage, not on my floor!!" and make sure there was a
garbage somewhere nearby to facilitate easy clean up.
Jalen went through that for years. We mostly cleaned up after him and
pointed out that we wanted these items in the garbage.
He does pretty good now, better than his older brothers usually!:)
I make sure to have a garbage in every room, kids of all ages will
toss wrappers in the darndest places if you don't.
I think a lot of this is transitional. "No" isn't a bad word though.
It's just lame if you haven't thought through the options. If someone
wants to break an item I love, "NO" is GOOD.
Radical unschooling is a huge transition for a family to make. You
might be going through some rough stuff for a while, in the mean time,
know that it's ok to stop harmful things from happening. Respecting
yourself is part of the package.
Saying "yes" more and more is usually the recommended path for this
transition, rather than changing all behavior overnight.
Tell us more about how you eased into radical unschooling and whether
or not you made some sort of announcement that there were no rules.
Hang in there...it will get better.
Ren
[email protected]
Joanne,
It sounds like you have a young man on "overload". It can happen when people make a sudden, drastic switch to radical unschooling. You had always been his safety net, making his decisions for him. Now he is revelling in his freedom but at the same time, nervous about lack of a safety net while he is doing very new things.
I would suggest rather than having "no bedtime" that you have a gradual transition to bedtime. Something of a routine (brush teeth, put on pj's, read a book, cuddle and talk, etc.). Not a rushed "Oh my God, we HAVE to be in bed by 9). But thinking that somewhere between 9 and 11 or so, he would usually be going to bed. When your son gets used to flexibility, he will have a much easier transition to making all those decisions himself.
Also, sometimes you do need to set limits even with radically unschooled kids, just like you sometimes have to set limits with adults. People don't get to stomp on other people's rights so that they can do what they want. You might need to talk to your son about how you don't deserve him being mad and grumpy at you if he wants to stay up AND go to riding lessons. You might need to talk to him about how somebody has to clean up the messes he makes at stores. Empathy is important.
Julie S.
It sounds like you have a young man on "overload". It can happen when people make a sudden, drastic switch to radical unschooling. You had always been his safety net, making his decisions for him. Now he is revelling in his freedom but at the same time, nervous about lack of a safety net while he is doing very new things.
I would suggest rather than having "no bedtime" that you have a gradual transition to bedtime. Something of a routine (brush teeth, put on pj's, read a book, cuddle and talk, etc.). Not a rushed "Oh my God, we HAVE to be in bed by 9). But thinking that somewhere between 9 and 11 or so, he would usually be going to bed. When your son gets used to flexibility, he will have a much easier transition to making all those decisions himself.
Also, sometimes you do need to set limits even with radically unschooled kids, just like you sometimes have to set limits with adults. People don't get to stomp on other people's rights so that they can do what they want. You might need to talk to your son about how you don't deserve him being mad and grumpy at you if he wants to stay up AND go to riding lessons. You might need to talk to him about how somebody has to clean up the messes he makes at stores. Empathy is important.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: Joanne <oh.kneel@...>
Date: Friday, October 28, 2005 6:44 pm
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Detoxing
> I just need to connect with the group. We are new to unschooling
> and actually feel that the best match for our son and our family
> would be what is now loosely described as radical unschooling.
> But
> my dh and I are really detoxing! I will only speak for myself
> from
> this point on but I feel like I am on an emotional roller coaster.
>
> Ds (5) digss up all the shale from the back path to make a
> volcano.
> DH and I both have strong feelings but work it through had allow
> him
> to proceed without dumping any further judgment on him. He makes
> an
> awesome volcano which then the family fills with baking soda and
> vinegar and it erupts. It was just great. Another episode, DS is
> now choosing to stay up very late (way past us guessing 3:00 a.m.
> or
> so) and is sleeping past noon. When we wake him for his horseback
> riding lesson he is angry that he has been woken. Now dh and I
> are
> wondering if we are doing the wrong thing allowing him to choose
> when he is sleeping half the day and so cranky. Another episode,
> ds
> goes to store and gets overstimulated (my fault ad choice for him)
> and climbs up the metal staircase for employees and won't get
> down.
> Then when he does runs all over the store as I try to chase him
> (and
> catch him). When I catch him his body almost seems to relax. I
> then carry him out of the store. I feel frazzled but glad I can
> talk with him calming not get angry. Another on going challenge
> ds
> just takes something he does want and throws it on the floor. (I
> have asked if he could put it in the garbage or give it to me or
> leave it on the table.....) Another episode, after dinner Ds
> wants
> me to play tag (again) with he and his friend. I say (which is
> consistent on my part) that after dinner mommy likes to wind down.
>
> I like to read and be quieter and get ready for bed. I would be
> happy to watch a movie with him. He then gets angry and tells me
> that Since I don't do his needs he is not listening to me. This
> time I wait. He doesn't throw his food on the floor, he doesn't
> run
> out the door, he doesn't start knocking things over. But he has
> done all of those things at others times this week. So I guess I
> am
> saying that we are transitioning and like giving birth it is
> uncomfortable and hard work at times. I am not someone who cries
> easily and yet I feel teary. I am tired. I am sad for the time I
> had put him in school. I am frustrated that I can't reach him
> better at times. I am ashamed that I don't know more about what
> to
> do to diffuse the situation. I offer to come close. I offer to
> hold him. I offer to give him space. I just want someone to know
> that we are hurting. When you drink too much and discover you are
> an alcoholic, one can chose to detox and then begin to recover one
> day at a time. Well we lived a way that was unhelpful to ds and
> have discovered that we need to detox from not only school and
> expectations but our own upbringings. We have a strong desire to
> find a new way for ds and us but it is really hard right now. I
> just didn't want to be alone with all of these new feelings.
> Sorry
> for the lengthy share. I just needed to know someone out there
> might be able to offer me some hope. Joanne
>
>
>
>
>
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