Enjoying Children
melissazietlow
Hello All,
Just wondering if anyone else has been at a point with a child when
it has become very difficult to enjoy their company? And if so, how
have you gotten through it?
My 5yo dd is a challenge. She is intense, extroverted, extremely
verbal, persistant, reactive, demanding, observant, sensitive, and
high energy. While we love her for all that she is, her personality
has been hard to handle at times. Shortly before coming to this
group, I started the journey of more mindful/positive/respectful
parenting. I joined a few lists, have been reading recommended
books, and working on having a better relationship with dd, and
seeing her challenging traits in a different light. It has not been
easy, to say the least, but I am commited to 'unschooling' my
parenting and discipline, and have seen enough successes to know that
as inept as I feel, it is the right and better approach.
At various times, and recently, we (dh and I) have been seeing Orion
trying new behaviors and testing waters. For example, she will go
through periods of time when she is especially bossy and rude to her
sister, and nothing we seem to do (negotiating, diverting, waiting to
see if they work it out, etc.) helps the conflicts. Lately she has
been very adamant about expressing her opinion, over what someone
else is saying, before hearing the other person out. She has been
increasingly impolite -- deliberately pushing, jumping on, touching
other family members in annoying ways after being told it is
bothering someone. She has been (purposefully?)repeating negative
things she hears on tv/movies more and more often. While we want to
respect where she is coming from, it is sometimes so very draining,
and difficult to remain positive. We have been trying to be as non-
reactive as possible, talking through situations, etc. but I am sorry
to say that there have been a few days lately where we have been
slipping into the old reactions of impatience, anger, yelling etc.
We have been hired a teenage babysitter that has been coming to
occupy the girls and give me a break, which helps. We thought
perhaps an energy outlet like t-ball would help dd, but I am not sure
it has, although she seems to like it. We are looking into a hs
support group, thinking that making new friends on a similar path
might be good for us all.
I have been reassured that difficulties of this sort are normal for
her age, and I want to believe that, but I also do not know anyone
who has a child like Orion. If I were to label her, I would
definitely say she is spirited to the maximum. Sometimes, at the end
of the day, I cannot wait for bedtime to come so I can have some time
away from her. When we go through these phases, it is hard to enjoy
being around her. I feel like an awful parent...
Melissa Z.
Just wondering if anyone else has been at a point with a child when
it has become very difficult to enjoy their company? And if so, how
have you gotten through it?
My 5yo dd is a challenge. She is intense, extroverted, extremely
verbal, persistant, reactive, demanding, observant, sensitive, and
high energy. While we love her for all that she is, her personality
has been hard to handle at times. Shortly before coming to this
group, I started the journey of more mindful/positive/respectful
parenting. I joined a few lists, have been reading recommended
books, and working on having a better relationship with dd, and
seeing her challenging traits in a different light. It has not been
easy, to say the least, but I am commited to 'unschooling' my
parenting and discipline, and have seen enough successes to know that
as inept as I feel, it is the right and better approach.
At various times, and recently, we (dh and I) have been seeing Orion
trying new behaviors and testing waters. For example, she will go
through periods of time when she is especially bossy and rude to her
sister, and nothing we seem to do (negotiating, diverting, waiting to
see if they work it out, etc.) helps the conflicts. Lately she has
been very adamant about expressing her opinion, over what someone
else is saying, before hearing the other person out. She has been
increasingly impolite -- deliberately pushing, jumping on, touching
other family members in annoying ways after being told it is
bothering someone. She has been (purposefully?)repeating negative
things she hears on tv/movies more and more often. While we want to
respect where she is coming from, it is sometimes so very draining,
and difficult to remain positive. We have been trying to be as non-
reactive as possible, talking through situations, etc. but I am sorry
to say that there have been a few days lately where we have been
slipping into the old reactions of impatience, anger, yelling etc.
We have been hired a teenage babysitter that has been coming to
occupy the girls and give me a break, which helps. We thought
perhaps an energy outlet like t-ball would help dd, but I am not sure
it has, although she seems to like it. We are looking into a hs
support group, thinking that making new friends on a similar path
might be good for us all.
I have been reassured that difficulties of this sort are normal for
her age, and I want to believe that, but I also do not know anyone
who has a child like Orion. If I were to label her, I would
definitely say she is spirited to the maximum. Sometimes, at the end
of the day, I cannot wait for bedtime to come so I can have some time
away from her. When we go through these phases, it is hard to enjoy
being around her. I feel like an awful parent...
Melissa Z.
G&M Contracting Inc., Kenneth Gillilan
Melissa,
You are not an awful parent. I assure you of that and know what I am
talking about. My child, Keegan is 5 and we went through the "rate your
child" section of "The Spirited Child" book and if the highest was 5 he was
the highest with just one exception.
Keegan sounds exactly like your child and I am sure I could even tell
you a few stories.
He is Sensitive meaning he doesn't like to be touched (and you
would be surprised how many things touch you during the day) unless he want
to be, which is close to never.
He is Spirited and I mean the kind of spirited that starts at
5:00am and doesn't stop until he passes out cold at around 9:30pm if your
lucky.
He has sibling rivalry in a major way with his older sister
probably because she is an extravert also and they fight for that same kind
of attention.
Oh I could go on and on about the things we have been through and like
you thought that getting him involved in things would be the best for him,
but in the long run it made it worse sometimes. And, yes I have had days
when I have been thankful when his precious little head hit the pillow and
snoring sounds came out.
I don't know if you tried martial arts, but for Keegan it really
seemed to pull something out of it. He needed the focus and ability to see
someone letting off steam, but not directly hurting someone. Initially I
thought; Yeah right teach him how to really hurt someone, but was I wrong.
I think all the focus on being courteous and having self control is starting
to sink in.
I don't know if this is the case for your daughter, but for Keegan I
love that his personality is constant. No matter where he goes or who he is
with his emotions are raw and out there. The other kids in his martial arts
class are wearing masks while their there. They are all composed and
thoughtful during class and then when they get outside they are crying,
whining and carrying on to their moms and dads. With Keegan you get what
you see and I just love that.
It also helped to look at things a little differently in my case. I
needed to stop seeing the negative Keegan and start seeing the positive
things he did. That isn't as easy as it sounds when you thought that you
were in a constant battle with a five year old. When I woke up and saw that
when he wasn't tormenting someone or needing to wear his clothes just right
etc.. he had extreme happy moments. You gotta love that!!
I don't know if I helped at all, but atleast you know you are not the
only one out there with a child that just takes a little more energy than
the rest.
AnnMarie
-----Original Message-----
From: melissazietlow [mailto:Zietlowfamily@...]
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 11:16 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Enjoying Children
Hello All,
Just wondering if anyone else has been at a point with a child when
it has become very difficult to enjoy their company? And if so, how
have you gotten through it?
My 5yo dd is a challenge. She is intense, extroverted, extremely
verbal, persistant, reactive, demanding, observant, sensitive, and
high energy. While we love her for all that she is, her personality
has been hard to handle at times. Shortly before coming to this
group, I started the journey of more mindful/positive/respectful
parenting. I joined a few lists, have been reading recommended
books, and working on having a better relationship with dd, and
seeing her challenging traits in a different light. It has not been
easy, to say the least, but I am commited to 'unschooling' my
parenting and discipline, and have seen enough successes to know that
as inept as I feel, it is the right and better approach.
At various times, and recently, we (dh and I) have been seeing Orion
trying new behaviors and testing waters. For example, she will go
through periods of time when she is especially bossy and rude to her
sister, and nothing we seem to do (negotiating, diverting, waiting to
see if they work it out, etc.) helps the conflicts. Lately she has
been very adamant about expressing her opinion, over what someone
else is saying, before hearing the other person out. She has been
increasingly impolite -- deliberately pushing, jumping on, touching
other family members in annoying ways after being told it is
bothering someone. She has been (purposefully?)repeating negative
things she hears on tv/movies more and more often. While we want to
respect where she is coming from, it is sometimes so very draining,
and difficult to remain positive. We have been trying to be as non-
reactive as possible, talking through situations, etc. but I am sorry
to say that there have been a few days lately where we have been
slipping into the old reactions of impatience, anger, yelling etc.
We have been hired a teenage babysitter that has been coming to
occupy the girls and give me a break, which helps. We thought
perhaps an energy outlet like t-ball would help dd, but I am not sure
it has, although she seems to like it. We are looking into a hs
support group, thinking that making new friends on a similar path
might be good for us all.
I have been reassured that difficulties of this sort are normal for
her age, and I want to believe that, but I also do not know anyone
who has a child like Orion. If I were to label her, I would
definitely say she is spirited to the maximum. Sometimes, at the end
of the day, I cannot wait for bedtime to come so I can have some time
away from her. When we go through these phases, it is hard to enjoy
being around her. I feel like an awful parent...
Melissa Z.
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You are not an awful parent. I assure you of that and know what I am
talking about. My child, Keegan is 5 and we went through the "rate your
child" section of "The Spirited Child" book and if the highest was 5 he was
the highest with just one exception.
Keegan sounds exactly like your child and I am sure I could even tell
you a few stories.
He is Sensitive meaning he doesn't like to be touched (and you
would be surprised how many things touch you during the day) unless he want
to be, which is close to never.
He is Spirited and I mean the kind of spirited that starts at
5:00am and doesn't stop until he passes out cold at around 9:30pm if your
lucky.
He has sibling rivalry in a major way with his older sister
probably because she is an extravert also and they fight for that same kind
of attention.
Oh I could go on and on about the things we have been through and like
you thought that getting him involved in things would be the best for him,
but in the long run it made it worse sometimes. And, yes I have had days
when I have been thankful when his precious little head hit the pillow and
snoring sounds came out.
I don't know if you tried martial arts, but for Keegan it really
seemed to pull something out of it. He needed the focus and ability to see
someone letting off steam, but not directly hurting someone. Initially I
thought; Yeah right teach him how to really hurt someone, but was I wrong.
I think all the focus on being courteous and having self control is starting
to sink in.
I don't know if this is the case for your daughter, but for Keegan I
love that his personality is constant. No matter where he goes or who he is
with his emotions are raw and out there. The other kids in his martial arts
class are wearing masks while their there. They are all composed and
thoughtful during class and then when they get outside they are crying,
whining and carrying on to their moms and dads. With Keegan you get what
you see and I just love that.
It also helped to look at things a little differently in my case. I
needed to stop seeing the negative Keegan and start seeing the positive
things he did. That isn't as easy as it sounds when you thought that you
were in a constant battle with a five year old. When I woke up and saw that
when he wasn't tormenting someone or needing to wear his clothes just right
etc.. he had extreme happy moments. You gotta love that!!
I don't know if I helped at all, but atleast you know you are not the
only one out there with a child that just takes a little more energy than
the rest.
AnnMarie
-----Original Message-----
From: melissazietlow [mailto:Zietlowfamily@...]
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 11:16 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Enjoying Children
Hello All,
Just wondering if anyone else has been at a point with a child when
it has become very difficult to enjoy their company? And if so, how
have you gotten through it?
My 5yo dd is a challenge. She is intense, extroverted, extremely
verbal, persistant, reactive, demanding, observant, sensitive, and
high energy. While we love her for all that she is, her personality
has been hard to handle at times. Shortly before coming to this
group, I started the journey of more mindful/positive/respectful
parenting. I joined a few lists, have been reading recommended
books, and working on having a better relationship with dd, and
seeing her challenging traits in a different light. It has not been
easy, to say the least, but I am commited to 'unschooling' my
parenting and discipline, and have seen enough successes to know that
as inept as I feel, it is the right and better approach.
At various times, and recently, we (dh and I) have been seeing Orion
trying new behaviors and testing waters. For example, she will go
through periods of time when she is especially bossy and rude to her
sister, and nothing we seem to do (negotiating, diverting, waiting to
see if they work it out, etc.) helps the conflicts. Lately she has
been very adamant about expressing her opinion, over what someone
else is saying, before hearing the other person out. She has been
increasingly impolite -- deliberately pushing, jumping on, touching
other family members in annoying ways after being told it is
bothering someone. She has been (purposefully?)repeating negative
things she hears on tv/movies more and more often. While we want to
respect where she is coming from, it is sometimes so very draining,
and difficult to remain positive. We have been trying to be as non-
reactive as possible, talking through situations, etc. but I am sorry
to say that there have been a few days lately where we have been
slipping into the old reactions of impatience, anger, yelling etc.
We have been hired a teenage babysitter that has been coming to
occupy the girls and give me a break, which helps. We thought
perhaps an energy outlet like t-ball would help dd, but I am not sure
it has, although she seems to like it. We are looking into a hs
support group, thinking that making new friends on a similar path
might be good for us all.
I have been reassured that difficulties of this sort are normal for
her age, and I want to believe that, but I also do not know anyone
who has a child like Orion. If I were to label her, I would
definitely say she is spirited to the maximum. Sometimes, at the end
of the day, I cannot wait for bedtime to come so I can have some time
away from her. When we go through these phases, it is hard to enjoy
being around her. I feel like an awful parent...
Melissa Z.
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pam sorooshian
On Jun 14, 2004, at 8:16 PM, melissazietlow wrote:
My oldest was like Orion. She's 19 now and sometimes I'm glad when she
goes off to bed, still!!!! I love her with all my heart - but she is
always "on" and sometimes I just feel like a worn out old grouch.
So - either I get to join you as an awful parent or we're both just
being honest that our own very intense kids can exhaust us.
Keep reading and working on the books you've got - I think you said you
were reading PET and How to Talk -- do you also have "The Explosive
Child?" That one is my strongest recommendation. When you've read them
- read them again - keep trying to pick out something from them to work
on. Look for small improvements in your relationships and take good
care of yourself so you are as strong and healthy as possible.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> I have been reassured that difficulties of this sort are normal forYou're not. You're an exhausted and overwhelmed parent.
> her age, and I want to believe that, but I also do not know anyone
> who has a child like Orion. If I were to label her, I would
> definitely say she is spirited to the maximum. Sometimes, at the end
> of the day, I cannot wait for bedtime to come so I can have some time
> away from her. When we go through these phases, it is hard to enjoy
> being around her. I feel like an awful parent...
>
My oldest was like Orion. She's 19 now and sometimes I'm glad when she
goes off to bed, still!!!! I love her with all my heart - but she is
always "on" and sometimes I just feel like a worn out old grouch.
So - either I get to join you as an awful parent or we're both just
being honest that our own very intense kids can exhaust us.
Keep reading and working on the books you've got - I think you said you
were reading PET and How to Talk -- do you also have "The Explosive
Child?" That one is my strongest recommendation. When you've read them
- read them again - keep trying to pick out something from them to work
on. Look for small improvements in your relationships and take good
care of yourself so you are as strong and healthy as possible.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
Wendy E
We seem to have a challenging 5yo theme going here (and not just the
challenging boys, it seems). Rest assured, you are not a bad
parent. It seems like you are doing much to honor your child. My DS
is all the things you mentioned, to the 100th degree. We have good
days, and we have bad days... I do find a lot of time it's the
way "I" handle the situation and the mood I'm in that day which
affects the way things go. But having an intense child is
demanding. Physically, emotionally, and mentally. One thing I try
to do everyday is to consciously enjoy my child...it may be hard to
find that moment, today for me it was as we were walking to the car
to go to an appointment. Well, I was walking, he was running, and
twirling, and laughing...down the sidewalk with one blue sandle and
one brown sandle on...and I thought, what a cool kid!-
-- In [email protected], "melissazietlow"
<Zietlowfamily@w...> wrote:
challenging boys, it seems). Rest assured, you are not a bad
parent. It seems like you are doing much to honor your child. My DS
is all the things you mentioned, to the 100th degree. We have good
days, and we have bad days... I do find a lot of time it's the
way "I" handle the situation and the mood I'm in that day which
affects the way things go. But having an intense child is
demanding. Physically, emotionally, and mentally. One thing I try
to do everyday is to consciously enjoy my child...it may be hard to
find that moment, today for me it was as we were walking to the car
to go to an appointment. Well, I was walking, he was running, and
twirling, and laughing...down the sidewalk with one blue sandle and
one brown sandle on...and I thought, what a cool kid!-
-- In [email protected], "melissazietlow"
<Zietlowfamily@w...> wrote:
> Hello All,personality
>
> Just wondering if anyone else has been at a point with a child when
> it has become very difficult to enjoy their company? And if so, how
> have you gotten through it?
>
> My 5yo dd is a challenge. She is intense, extroverted, extremely
> verbal, persistant, reactive, demanding, observant, sensitive, and
> high energy. While we love her for all that she is, her
> has been hard to handle at times.
Rachel and Carson Milgroom
Melissa-
You're doing a very intense form of parenting, and are bound to have some
periods where the intensity is uncomfortable (unbearable maybe? lol).
You're not alone - there are many days I have wished I was unaware and could
just send my kids off to school and be alone. But we are aware and, I
believe, making the very best choice to help our kids to grow up and through
their stages as whole and cherished people.
Some of the things we've done to help with giving me a break from the
intensity:
*like you, we have had some babysitters
*he watches TV/videos - I was always opposed to TV and he watched none for
the first 3 years, but it has actually been a nice addition to our house.
He and I appreciate the quiet time, which he was often unable to settle in
for before.
*we have a second computer (passed down from my sister) which we have set up
for him to play games on. That way we can be in the same room and he feels
connected to me while I get some personal time. Also, it prevents him vying
with me for time on the computer which used to create conflict.
* I try to find some quiet time to be just with him (usually while our 1.5yo
naps or plays with my dh) which helps us when I need some non-interactive
time later. I've already given him some focused time and he is more patient
with the time I want for myself or when I want to be in the same room but
doing a different activity.
*He has a playspace in the house that is a place he can go alone, and other
people come in by invitation only. I never thought he would want to play
alone, but I think the lack of distraction and the ability to set up his
play as he chooses and leave it up as long as he wants helps him to get
involved deeply which gives me some stretches of time to renew my energy.
Also he is experiencing that one way people get renewal is by having some
time alone.
Rachel
www.DiaperFreeBaby.org
You're doing a very intense form of parenting, and are bound to have some
periods where the intensity is uncomfortable (unbearable maybe? lol).
You're not alone - there are many days I have wished I was unaware and could
just send my kids off to school and be alone. But we are aware and, I
believe, making the very best choice to help our kids to grow up and through
their stages as whole and cherished people.
Some of the things we've done to help with giving me a break from the
intensity:
*like you, we have had some babysitters
*he watches TV/videos - I was always opposed to TV and he watched none for
the first 3 years, but it has actually been a nice addition to our house.
He and I appreciate the quiet time, which he was often unable to settle in
for before.
*we have a second computer (passed down from my sister) which we have set up
for him to play games on. That way we can be in the same room and he feels
connected to me while I get some personal time. Also, it prevents him vying
with me for time on the computer which used to create conflict.
* I try to find some quiet time to be just with him (usually while our 1.5yo
naps or plays with my dh) which helps us when I need some non-interactive
time later. I've already given him some focused time and he is more patient
with the time I want for myself or when I want to be in the same room but
doing a different activity.
*He has a playspace in the house that is a place he can go alone, and other
people come in by invitation only. I never thought he would want to play
alone, but I think the lack of distraction and the ability to set up his
play as he chooses and leave it up as long as he wants helps him to get
involved deeply which gives me some stretches of time to renew my energy.
Also he is experiencing that one way people get renewal is by having some
time alone.
Rachel
www.DiaperFreeBaby.org
melissazietlow
--- In [email protected], pam sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:
Explosive Child?" That one is my strongest recommendation. When
you've read them - read them again - keep trying to pick out
something from them to work > on. Look for small improvements in your
relationships and take good care of yourself so you are as strong and
healthy as possible.
I did read How to Talk, Sibling Rivalry, PET and The Spirited Child.
I am currently in the middle of The Inner Work of Mindful Parenting
and Whole Child/Whole Parent. I need all the help I can get! Who is
the Explosive Child by?
I am thinking that after I read through the last few, I will go back
and re-read the ones that made the most sense.
I have been doing well at taking care of myself. When I get
overwhelmed to the point where I 'feel a spanking coming on' I have
been letting dh know he needs to take over, or if he is unavailable,
retreating to the bedroom with the door closed for a little while,
even if that means the kids have to pout/squabble/run wild while I do
it.
I have also been chalking up communication failures to needing more
practice.
But the guilt still comes in full when the thoughts like "I can't
stand her anymore today" pop into my head...
Thanks,
Melissa Z.
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:
>you were reading PET and How to Talk -- do you also have "The
> Keep reading and working on the books you've got - I think you said
Explosive Child?" That one is my strongest recommendation. When
you've read them - read them again - keep trying to pick out
something from them to work > on. Look for small improvements in your
relationships and take good care of yourself so you are as strong and
healthy as possible.
I did read How to Talk, Sibling Rivalry, PET and The Spirited Child.
I am currently in the middle of The Inner Work of Mindful Parenting
and Whole Child/Whole Parent. I need all the help I can get! Who is
the Explosive Child by?
I am thinking that after I read through the last few, I will go back
and re-read the ones that made the most sense.
I have been doing well at taking care of myself. When I get
overwhelmed to the point where I 'feel a spanking coming on' I have
been letting dh know he needs to take over, or if he is unavailable,
retreating to the bedroom with the door closed for a little while,
even if that means the kids have to pout/squabble/run wild while I do
it.
I have also been chalking up communication failures to needing more
practice.
But the guilt still comes in full when the thoughts like "I can't
stand her anymore today" pop into my head...
Thanks,
Melissa Z.
melissazietlow
--- In [email protected], "Rachel and Carson
Milgroom" <rachelcarson@r...> wrote:
maybe? lol). You're not alone - there are many days I have wished I
was unaware and could just send my kids off to school and be alone.
But we are aware and, I believe, making the very best choice to help
our kids to grow up and through their stages as whole and cherished
people.
Thank you for this. A few reassuring and understanding words is
sometimes enough to carry one through for quite awhile. I used to
talk to my mother when the times got tough, but feel like I can't
anymore because she is very against the idea of homeschooling, and
her advice started to be "this is why you need to send her to
school. You'll never be able to handle it."
Thanks also for the suggestions. Most we are already utilizing, but
you gave me a few new ideas I will try right away!
to our house. He and I appreciate the quiet time, which he was often
unable to settle in for before.
I do get a blessed break when Orion decides to watch a movie. We
recently cancelled our expensive satelitte service because dh and I
did not feel we were using it enough to justify the cost. It was
almost solely used for kids programs, which we decided we can rent.
So, we have subscribed to a dvd service and get movies from the
library (saving $40/month!).
However, we have noticed that because Orion is so observant and
analytical, she picks up on many negative aspects of shows and
focuses on them/acts them out with intensity (BECOMES the show). She
is doing this even with carefully chosen videos -- mainly living
anything negative she might see/hear, even though we have always
tried to discuss what is seen, and right vs. wrong ideas, etc. It is
un-nerving.
Melissa Z.
Milgroom" <rachelcarson@r...> wrote:
> You're doing a very intense form of parenting, and are bound tohave some periods where the intensity is uncomfortable (unbearable
maybe? lol). You're not alone - there are many days I have wished I
was unaware and could just send my kids off to school and be alone.
But we are aware and, I believe, making the very best choice to help
our kids to grow up and through their stages as whole and cherished
people.
Thank you for this. A few reassuring and understanding words is
sometimes enough to carry one through for quite awhile. I used to
talk to my mother when the times got tough, but feel like I can't
anymore because she is very against the idea of homeschooling, and
her advice started to be "this is why you need to send her to
school. You'll never be able to handle it."
Thanks also for the suggestions. Most we are already utilizing, but
you gave me a few new ideas I will try right away!
>He watches TV/videos - I was always opposed to TV and he watchednone for the first 3 years, but it has actually been a nice addition
to our house. He and I appreciate the quiet time, which he was often
unable to settle in for before.
I do get a blessed break when Orion decides to watch a movie. We
recently cancelled our expensive satelitte service because dh and I
did not feel we were using it enough to justify the cost. It was
almost solely used for kids programs, which we decided we can rent.
So, we have subscribed to a dvd service and get movies from the
library (saving $40/month!).
However, we have noticed that because Orion is so observant and
analytical, she picks up on many negative aspects of shows and
focuses on them/acts them out with intensity (BECOMES the show). She
is doing this even with carefully chosen videos -- mainly living
anything negative she might see/hear, even though we have always
tried to discuss what is seen, and right vs. wrong ideas, etc. It is
un-nerving.
Melissa Z.
Valerie
I used to
high-spirited children and decided to stay mum and just listen to
those in the know about them. Laurie was nowhere near high-spirited.
What did come to mind was the admiration I have for you parents who
are giving these special children this kind of parenting. Sending
them to school might be easier during the day, but it would be worse
when they got home from school and had to get their day (in prison)
out of their systems. Melissa, your mother shows little faith in
your abilities, but the rest of us here know you're giving your
child the best she could possibly get.
One of my nephews is high-spirited and he spends his days in school
and his time away from school with controlling parents. He doesn't
know if he's coming or going half the time and makes life difficult
for everyone around him. The other day I saw his 6-year old brother
close his eyes, cross his legs, put his hands on his knees and
say "Ohmmmmmmm" in a meditative way. When he finished, he looked at
me and said, "THAT's how I handle my brother." I wish he'd show his
parents how to Ohmmmmmmm. :-)
love, Valerie
> talk to my mother when the times got tough, but feel like I can't***** I was trying to think of something wise to say to parents of
> anymore because she is very against the idea of homeschooling, and
> her advice started to be "this is why you need to send her to
> school. You'll never be able to handle it."
high-spirited children and decided to stay mum and just listen to
those in the know about them. Laurie was nowhere near high-spirited.
What did come to mind was the admiration I have for you parents who
are giving these special children this kind of parenting. Sending
them to school might be easier during the day, but it would be worse
when they got home from school and had to get their day (in prison)
out of their systems. Melissa, your mother shows little faith in
your abilities, but the rest of us here know you're giving your
child the best she could possibly get.
One of my nephews is high-spirited and he spends his days in school
and his time away from school with controlling parents. He doesn't
know if he's coming or going half the time and makes life difficult
for everyone around him. The other day I saw his 6-year old brother
close his eyes, cross his legs, put his hands on his knees and
say "Ohmmmmmmm" in a meditative way. When he finished, he looked at
me and said, "THAT's how I handle my brother." I wish he'd show his
parents how to Ohmmmmmmm. :-)
love, Valerie
mamaaj2000
--- In [email protected], "melissazietlow" > However,
we have noticed that because Orion is so observant and
to a home day care once a week last year, but he would come home
acting horribly, talking to us so rudely, etc. And he's still
saying "ha, ha, I'm winning" every day since a bday party last month
where one girl was doing that. Ugh. He's so dramatic, so sensitive to
negative emotions. He needs to socialize more, but it's hard to find
situations and kids that work out well for us.
--aj
we have noticed that because Orion is so observant and
> analytical, she picks up on many negative aspects of shows andShe
> focuses on them/acts them out with intensity (BECOMES the show).
> is doing this even with carefully chosen videos -- mainly livingis
> anything negative she might see/hear, even though we have always
> tried to discuss what is seen, and right vs. wrong ideas, etc. It
> un-nerving.Melissa, that's how Mikey is with other kids! I had been sending him
to a home day care once a week last year, but he would come home
acting horribly, talking to us so rudely, etc. And he's still
saying "ha, ha, I'm winning" every day since a bday party last month
where one girl was doing that. Ugh. He's so dramatic, so sensitive to
negative emotions. He needs to socialize more, but it's hard to find
situations and kids that work out well for us.
--aj
pam sorooshian
On Jun 15, 2004, at 6:18 AM, melissazietlow wrote:
been able to have a window into what you've been doing.
I know you knew better than to expect miraculous overnight
transformations of your intense and high-energy little girl into a
docile compliant one - but still want to warn you not to have
expectations that she'll ever be very different temperamentally. My 19
yo is STILL the same temperament as she was when I was an overwhelmed
and exhausted mom of a 5 yo. But - that intensity is wonderful - she
directs it to her passions now and she's an amazing person.
STILL hard to live with, sometimes. I still breathe deeper when she
falls asleep.
Don't feel guilty - what you think is what you think - wishing she'd be
different is NORMAL when you have a kid who is so demanding and tiring.
Just keep on with the direction you're going - you're doing just fine.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> I have also been chalking up communication failures to needing moreYou're doing absolutely AWESOME Melissa - I feel privileged to have
> practice.
>
> But the guilt still comes in full when the thoughts like "I can't
> stand her anymore today" pop into my head...
been able to have a window into what you've been doing.
I know you knew better than to expect miraculous overnight
transformations of your intense and high-energy little girl into a
docile compliant one - but still want to warn you not to have
expectations that she'll ever be very different temperamentally. My 19
yo is STILL the same temperament as she was when I was an overwhelmed
and exhausted mom of a 5 yo. But - that intensity is wonderful - she
directs it to her passions now and she's an amazing person.
STILL hard to live with, sometimes. I still breathe deeper when she
falls asleep.
Don't feel guilty - what you think is what you think - wishing she'd be
different is NORMAL when you have a kid who is so demanding and tiring.
Just keep on with the direction you're going - you're doing just fine.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
melissazietlow
--- In [email protected], "Valerie" <valerie@u...>
wrote:
I say, Ohmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!
wrote:
> What did come to mind was the admiration I have for you parentswho are giving these special children this kind of parenting.
I say, Ohmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!
melissazietlow
--- In [email protected], "mamaaj2000"
<mamaaj2000@y...> wrote:
acting horribly, talking to us so rudely, etc. And he's still
saying "ha, ha, I'm winning" every day since a bday party last month
where one girl was doing that. Ugh. He's so dramatic, so sensitive to
negative emotions. He needs to socialize more, but it's hard to find
situations and kids that work out well for us.
DRAMATIC. Yes, we know that word here. Often, it is best if we
ignore/not make a big deal of things she says/acts out, because if we
do, it is just fuel... But there are just some things that we cannot
ignore.
For examples:
Something Orion has been doing for awhile is making her Barbies
embrace and kiss, just like the prince & princesses from her Disney
movies. I have hoped this is normal, and have chosen to say little
about it. It makes dh very uncomfortable.
We rented an Arthur video with an episode about baseball, since Orion
just started t-ball. She must have watched (studied) that movie 20
times. I did not sit and watch the entire thing with her, but heard
enough to recognize some of DW's negative phrases coming out of
Orion's mouth the following week. "No one likes me," "No one loves
me anymore," and "That's not fair." She was repeating so often we
have had to address it, almost to no avail.
Sigh.
MZ
<mamaaj2000@y...> wrote:
> >Melissa, that's how Mikey is with other kids! I had been sendinghim to a home day care once a week last year, but he would come home
acting horribly, talking to us so rudely, etc. And he's still
saying "ha, ha, I'm winning" every day since a bday party last month
where one girl was doing that. Ugh. He's so dramatic, so sensitive to
negative emotions. He needs to socialize more, but it's hard to find
situations and kids that work out well for us.
DRAMATIC. Yes, we know that word here. Often, it is best if we
ignore/not make a big deal of things she says/acts out, because if we
do, it is just fuel... But there are just some things that we cannot
ignore.
For examples:
Something Orion has been doing for awhile is making her Barbies
embrace and kiss, just like the prince & princesses from her Disney
movies. I have hoped this is normal, and have chosen to say little
about it. It makes dh very uncomfortable.
We rented an Arthur video with an episode about baseball, since Orion
just started t-ball. She must have watched (studied) that movie 20
times. I did not sit and watch the entire thing with her, but heard
enough to recognize some of DW's negative phrases coming out of
Orion's mouth the following week. "No one likes me," "No one loves
me anymore," and "That's not fair." She was repeating so often we
have had to address it, almost to no avail.
Sigh.
MZ
melissazietlow
--- In [email protected], pam sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:
and tiring. Just keep on with the direction you're going - you're
doing just fine.
Thanks so much, Pam.
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:
>she'd be different is NORMAL when you have a kid who is so demanding
> You're doing absolutely AWESOME Melissa - I feel privileged to have
> been able to have a window into what you've been doing.
> Don't feel guilty - what you think is what you think - wishing
and tiring. Just keep on with the direction you're going - you're
doing just fine.
Thanks so much, Pam.
Wendy E
I don't like the Arthur show for that reason. What is up with TV
shows where they make the kids little brats??? Rugrats is the same
way..yuck.
--- In [email protected], "melissazietlow"
<Zietlowfamily@w...> wrote:>
shows where they make the kids little brats??? Rugrats is the same
way..yuck.
--- In [email protected], "melissazietlow"
<Zietlowfamily@w...> wrote:>
> We rented an Arthur video with an episode about baseball, sinceOrion
> just started t-ball. She must have watched (studied) that movie 20heard
> times. I did not sit and watch the entire thing with her, but
> enough to recognize some of DW's negative phrases coming out ofloves
> Orion's mouth the following week. "No one likes me," "No one
> me anymore," and "That's not fair." She was repeating so often we
> have had to address it, almost to no avail.
>
> Sigh.
>
> MZ
Rachel and Carson Milgroom
> For examples:Avoiding other work to say... I used to get my barbies naked and put them on
>
> Something Orion has been doing for awhile is making her Barbies
> embrace and kiss, just like the prince & princesses from her Disney
> movies. I have hoped this is normal, and have chosen to say little
> about it. It makes dh very uncomfortable.
top of each other "in bed". I played that for years, and I have grown up
fine. I'd say tell your dh not to worry. Is he concerned about her, or
about what other people will think about her/you because of her playing that
way?
I was thinking that maybe Orion's love of imitation might mean she'd enjoy
some foreign language videos - I am particularly fond of "French in Action"
(available from the library here) which shows people doing interesting
things related to whatever the French phrase is while repeating the word or
phrase over and over. Like to teach the phrase "bon appetit" they show
people in all different settings about to eat or being served a meal and
saying "bon appetit" to each other. Anyway, maybe she'd like something like
that because it would give her lots to repeat and an interesting new skill
at the same time (and probably is less annoying to everyone else than DW's
character.)
I was also thinking that maybe she'd like to do some acting or producing of
home plays, as she seems to have a knack for memory and drama :-)
Rachel
www.DiaperFreeBaby.org
mamaaj2000
--- In [email protected], "Rachel and Carson
Milgroom" <rachelcarson@r...> wrote:
Oh, I'm going to look for that. Mikey loves "Yoga for Kids" and I bet
he'd go for something like that, too.
start...Mikey is acting all day long, so I'd love to nurture that
need...and if it meant a little less drama about everyday
events...well, that would be all right!
--aj, who is thrilled today because a 17 yr old boy showed up on the
doorstep wanting to babysit this summer!!!!!
Milgroom" <rachelcarson@r...> wrote:
> > For examples:she'd enjoy
> I was thinking that maybe Orion's love of imitation might mean
> some foreign language videos - I am particularly fond of "French inAction"
Oh, I'm going to look for that. Mikey loves "Yoga for Kids" and I bet
he'd go for something like that, too.
>producing of
> I was also thinking that maybe she'd like to do some acting or
> home plays, as she seems to have a knack for memory and drama :-)LOL, I was just thinking today about how young acting classes might
start...Mikey is acting all day long, so I'd love to nurture that
need...and if it meant a little less drama about everyday
events...well, that would be all right!
--aj, who is thrilled today because a 17 yr old boy showed up on the
doorstep wanting to babysit this summer!!!!!
melissazietlow
--- In [email protected], "Rachel and Carson
Milgroom" <rachelcarson@r...> wrote:
drama :-)
I have been thinking the same thing. In fact, I saw there was a
kids' drama camp offered by the college close to us -- starting at
4yo. By the time I saw it in the paper, it was a little out of our
means for this year. Maybe next year. I could definitely see her
becoming an actress!
Milgroom" <rachelcarson@r...> wrote:
> I was also thinking that maybe she'd like to do some acting orproducing of home plays, as she seems to have a knack for memory and
drama :-)
I have been thinking the same thing. In fact, I saw there was a
kids' drama camp offered by the college close to us -- starting at
4yo. By the time I saw it in the paper, it was a little out of our
means for this year. Maybe next year. I could definitely see her
becoming an actress!
melissazietlow
--- In [email protected], "Rachel and Carson
Milgroom" <rachelcarson@r...> wrote:
grown up fine. I'd say tell your dh not to worry. Is he concerned
about her, or about what other people will think about her/you
because of her playing that way?
Me too. For a long time. And I think I'm okay... Dh is just not
sure what to think at all. I told him not to get concerned -- it
must be a normal early exploration into sexuality/relationships that
I suspect most girls go through. Or at least I remember going through
with most of my friends and cousins.
The one time I said anything to her, I asked her what she was
playing. She said they were married, and I casually said, well, you
know married people do lots of things, not just kiss. Like, making
dinner and shopping and taking care of the house or kids or going fun
places. She said I know and that was it. And they are still kissing
all the time. Sometimes I walk by and say woo-wooo because I can't
help it.
MZ
Milgroom" <rachelcarson@r...> wrote:
> I used to get my barbies naked and put them ontop of each other "in bed". I played that for years, and I have
grown up fine. I'd say tell your dh not to worry. Is he concerned
about her, or about what other people will think about her/you
because of her playing that way?
Me too. For a long time. And I think I'm okay... Dh is just not
sure what to think at all. I told him not to get concerned -- it
must be a normal early exploration into sexuality/relationships that
I suspect most girls go through. Or at least I remember going through
with most of my friends and cousins.
The one time I said anything to her, I asked her what she was
playing. She said they were married, and I casually said, well, you
know married people do lots of things, not just kiss. Like, making
dinner and shopping and taking care of the house or kids or going fun
places. She said I know and that was it. And they are still kissing
all the time. Sometimes I walk by and say woo-wooo because I can't
help it.
MZ
Robyn Coburn
<<< He needs to socialize more, but it's hard to find
situations and kids that work out well for us.>>>
Does he?
I'm not trying to a smart-alec here. I'm just kind of thinking out loud.
Sometimes I think we believe our younger children need more socializing
outside of the family than they really do - perhaps sometimes the opposite
is true and we underestimate their needs!
Jayn (4.5) has become very good at letting me know, verbally, when we have
done too much, or seen too many people, in the preceding days. She will even
want the blinds left closed on occasion. I think expressing "too much" may
be easier for her, than "not enough", although I also suspect that point of
saturation sneaks up on her.
How do you (the collective "you" of the list) tell, or estimate, or what
leads you to believe, that your kids "need" to socialize more?
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.692 / Virus Database: 453 - Release Date: 5/28/2004
situations and kids that work out well for us.>>>
Does he?
I'm not trying to a smart-alec here. I'm just kind of thinking out loud.
Sometimes I think we believe our younger children need more socializing
outside of the family than they really do - perhaps sometimes the opposite
is true and we underestimate their needs!
Jayn (4.5) has become very good at letting me know, verbally, when we have
done too much, or seen too many people, in the preceding days. She will even
want the blinds left closed on occasion. I think expressing "too much" may
be easier for her, than "not enough", although I also suspect that point of
saturation sneaks up on her.
How do you (the collective "you" of the list) tell, or estimate, or what
leads you to believe, that your kids "need" to socialize more?
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.692 / Virus Database: 453 - Release Date: 5/28/2004
pam sorooshian
On Jun 15, 2004, at 3:11 PM, mamaaj2000 wrote:
they really need is as much opportunity for "dramatic play" as
possible. They need other kids to play with, props of all kinds and
uninterrupted play time.
Roxana went through a phase at about 11 years old when she was REALLY
cranky and just going around bugging everybody all the time. I realized
that her big sister, 14, had suddenly stopped playing pretend with her
- stopped playing with stuffed animals, stopped playing star trek, etc.
Rox needed more dramatic play time. Since Roya was the one being most
bugged by her, I pointed this out to Roya and she decided to
voluntarily play Star Trek with Rox for an hour a day (it often
stretched into more). This was enough to make a dramatic difference in
Roxana's behavior - it was very noticeable - she turned back into our
happy pleasant little girl, overnight!
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> LOL, I was just thinking today about how young acting classes mightActing classes for little kids might just not be the best idea - what
> start...Mikey is acting all day long, so I'd love to nurture that
> need...and if it meant a little less drama about everyday
> events...well, that would be all right!
they really need is as much opportunity for "dramatic play" as
possible. They need other kids to play with, props of all kinds and
uninterrupted play time.
Roxana went through a phase at about 11 years old when she was REALLY
cranky and just going around bugging everybody all the time. I realized
that her big sister, 14, had suddenly stopped playing pretend with her
- stopped playing with stuffed animals, stopped playing star trek, etc.
Rox needed more dramatic play time. Since Roya was the one being most
bugged by her, I pointed this out to Roya and she decided to
voluntarily play Star Trek with Rox for an hour a day (it often
stretched into more). This was enough to make a dramatic difference in
Roxana's behavior - it was very noticeable - she turned back into our
happy pleasant little girl, overnight!
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
Kate Sitzman
>>How do you (the collective "you" of the list) tell, or estimate, or whatSorry to answer a question with a question, but "socialization" has been a
>>leads you to believe, that your kids "need" to socialize more?
bit of an issue around here for me lately, and I wanted to throw this out
there. My son turns 4 this week, and he just does not function very well in
social situations - he completely shuts down around unfamiliar kids, and is
awkward and stressed even around those he knows well. At home or among close
relatives he is relaxed, talkative and charming. He doesn't like to go out
much and prefers to stay home most days. My dilemma is that I really don't
know how to tell if this is just a normal personality variation that I just
need to accept, or a deeper problem that needs working on. It seems like he
would like to reach out to kids more often, and would like to be more at
ease with them, so in that sense it creates a problem, but is it serious
enough to require a more concerted effort? Therapy? How do I know? The
ongoing dilemma for me is that I honestly don't know if he needs me to limit
social situations at this point or if he needs me to give him more
opportunities in which to improve his skills. I would love to know how
people make these decisions. I hate to put him in uncomfortable situations,
but does keeping him away from them make it harder for him to develop in
this area? Ack!
Kate (new to list!)
Duvall, WA
melissazietlow
--- In [email protected], "Robyn Coburn"
<dezigna@c...> wrote:
"Mom, what are we doing today? Where are we going? Who's coming
over?" All in one breath and repeated several times, if the answer
is not satisfactory.
<dezigna@c...> wrote:
> How do you (the collective "you" of the list) tell, or estimate, orwhat leads you to believe, that your kids "need" to socialize more?
"Mom, what are we doing today? Where are we going? Who's coming
over?" All in one breath and repeated several times, if the answer
is not satisfactory.
Rachel and Carson Milgroom
> "Mom, what are we doing today? Where are we going? Who's cominglol - sounds like my house! Except for the days when he declares "I'm not
> over?" All in one breath and repeated several times, if the answer
> is not satisfactory.
>
going anywhere today! I am having a home day!"
Rachel
www.DiaperFreeBaby.org
G&M Contracting Inc., Kenneth Gillilan
>>>>Sometimes I think we believe our younger children need more socializingoutside of the family than they really do - perhaps sometimes the opposite
is true and we underestimate their needs!>>>>
This is very true in my case. My son who is sensitive and spirited only
becomes more so when we have been out. Now "outsiders" tend to think that
our lifestyle caused this, but I know for a fact he has always been this way
from day one. If we honor his feelings instead of making him join a million
different activities to try to ground him we are in for a big surprise at
the end of the day.
AnnMarie
-----Original Message-----
From: Robyn Coburn [mailto:dezigna@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 11:58 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] How Much Socializing was Enjoying Children
/Intense Reaction to TV
<<< He needs to socialize more, but it's hard to find
situations and kids that work out well for us.>>>
Does he?
I'm not trying to a smart-alec here. I'm just kind of thinking out loud.
Sometimes I think we believe our younger children need more socializing
outside of the family than they really do - perhaps sometimes the opposite
is true and we underestimate their needs!
Jayn (4.5) has become very good at letting me know, verbally, when we have
done too much, or seen too many people, in the preceding days. She will even
want the blinds left closed on occasion. I think expressing "too much" may
be easier for her, than "not enough", although I also suspect that point of
saturation sneaks up on her.
How do you (the collective "you" of the list) tell, or estimate, or what
leads you to believe, that your kids "need" to socialize more?
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.692 / Virus Database: 453 - Release Date: 5/28/2004
Yahoo! Groups Links
G&M Contracting Inc., Kenneth Gillilan
>>>>> Theongoing dilemma for me is that I honestly don't know if he needs me to limit
social situations at this point or if he needs me to give him more
opportunities in which to improve his skills. I would love to know how
people make these decisions. I hate to put him in uncomfortable situations,
but does keeping him away from them make it harder for him to develop in
this area.>>>>>
I am and have always been an introvert with shy tendencies. To this
day I get nervous just thinking about entering a room with a large group of
people or even worse a small group of people. It's not that I don't want to
be social it's just that I CAN'T be.
My parents were very social people and it was very hard for them to
understand that I was o.k. the way I was/am.
My advice would be to let him grow. If he wants to try and asks to go
some place where there will be a crowd just let him try. If he doesn't like
it when he gets their that's o.k. to. Pushing it will only make it worse
and it WILL develop in to a complex. He is too young at this point to worry
about whether he needs therapy. Let this play out a little. Take him to
the park if he meets up with kids and wants to play with them he will.
It's beautiful that he is comfortable with you and the family. I was
never comfortable in my own skin at home, because I seemed so unaccepted.
Who know what could have happened if they had just let me be me.
Don't know if I helped, but I feel for him. I know him. I look at him
in the mirror every day and you know what I like what I see.....
AnnMarie
[G&M Contracting Inc., Kenneth Gillilan] >>> ?iginal Message-----
From: Kate Sitzman [mailto:kate@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 4:02 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] How Much Socializing was Enjoying Children
/Intense Reaction to TV
>>How do you (the collective "you" of the list) tell, or estimate, or whatSorry to answer a question with a question, but "socialization" has been a
>>leads you to believe, that your kids "need" to socialize more?
bit of an issue around here for me lately, and I wanted to throw this out
there. My son turns 4 this week, and he just does not function very well
in
social situations - he completely shuts down around unfamiliar kids, and
is
awkward and stressed even around those he knows well. At home or among
close
relatives he is relaxed, talkative and charming. He doesn't like to go out
much and prefers to stay home most days. My dilemma is that I really don't
know how to tell if this is just a normal personality variation that I
just
need to accept, or a deeper problem that needs working on. It seems like
he
would like to reach out to kids more often, and would like to be more at
ease with them, so in that sense it creates a problem, but is it serious
enough to require a more concerted effort? Therapy? How do I know? The
ongoing dilemma for me is that I honestly don't know if he needs me to
limit
social situations at this point or if he needs me to give him more
opportunities in which to improve his skills. I would love to know how
people make these decisions. I hate to put him in uncomfortable
situations,
but does keeping him away from them make it harder for him to develop in
this area? Ack!
Kate (new to list!)
Duvall, WA
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mamaaj2000
--- In [email protected], "melissazietlow"
<Zietlowfamily@w...> wrote:
link fence), talking to everyone who walks by "Do you want to come
over and play?" Approaching kids, no matter how old, on the
playground to play with him. He was really cranky a couple weeks ago,
then we had 2 bday parties in two days, plus some other play time and
he was a very happy boy again.
Mikey, dd and I have been sick, one at a time, for the last week and
a half. I've made up for some of the lack of socializing by playing
tons with him. It's certainly easier for both of us to have some
variety in playmates, though!
You should see him when we get to large family gatherings. He is in
heaven when he has cousins around...I wish we lived closer to family.
I keep trying. Two of his friends are moving away in the next few
weeks. I've got two short trips and a visit from Grandmom planned for
July. We've got a lot of new neighbors and some of them seem great to
play with. Some of them let their 3 and 4 yr olds play in the street
while the parents are in the house, and I'm not going to do that
until Mikey starts actually looking both ways before saying "no cars
coming, it's safe"!!
--aj
<Zietlowfamily@w...> wrote:
> --- In [email protected], "Robyn Coburn"or
> <dezigna@c...> wrote:
> > How do you (the collective "you" of the list) tell, or estimate,
> what leads you to believe, that your kids "need" to socialize more?Uh huh. And "Can we have a party?" When we're in the backyard (chain
>
> "Mom, what are we doing today? Where are we going? Who's coming
> over?" All in one breath and repeated several times, if the answer
> is not satisfactory.
link fence), talking to everyone who walks by "Do you want to come
over and play?" Approaching kids, no matter how old, on the
playground to play with him. He was really cranky a couple weeks ago,
then we had 2 bday parties in two days, plus some other play time and
he was a very happy boy again.
Mikey, dd and I have been sick, one at a time, for the last week and
a half. I've made up for some of the lack of socializing by playing
tons with him. It's certainly easier for both of us to have some
variety in playmates, though!
You should see him when we get to large family gatherings. He is in
heaven when he has cousins around...I wish we lived closer to family.
I keep trying. Two of his friends are moving away in the next few
weeks. I've got two short trips and a visit from Grandmom planned for
July. We've got a lot of new neighbors and some of them seem great to
play with. Some of them let their 3 and 4 yr olds play in the street
while the parents are in the house, and I'm not going to do that
until Mikey starts actually looking both ways before saying "no cars
coming, it's safe"!!
--aj
mamaaj2000
Oh, yeh we do a ton of that. I'd noticed that Mikey was playing less
with his Thomas engines, which has always been his favorite fantasy
play. We bought a battery powered engine and now he's back to
building huge, fancy track layouts and acting out all sorts of things
with his trains.
Pam, thanks for reminding me about props. I'd planned to order this:
http://www.discountschoolsupply.com/product/product.asp?sku=844
and then forgotten all about it!
I would be nervous about an actual acting class for 3-4 yr olds, but
I look forward to doing some kind of class this fall.
Thanks,
aj
--- In [email protected], pam sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:
with his Thomas engines, which has always been his favorite fantasy
play. We bought a battery powered engine and now he's back to
building huge, fancy track layouts and acting out all sorts of things
with his trains.
Pam, thanks for reminding me about props. I'd planned to order this:
http://www.discountschoolsupply.com/product/product.asp?sku=844
and then forgotten all about it!
I would be nervous about an actual acting class for 3-4 yr olds, but
I look forward to doing some kind of class this fall.
Thanks,
aj
--- In [email protected], pam sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:
>might
> On Jun 15, 2004, at 3:11 PM, mamaaj2000 wrote:
>
> > LOL, I was just thinking today about how young acting classes
> > start...Mikey is acting all day long, so I'd love to nurture thatwhat
> > need...and if it meant a little less drama about everyday
> > events...well, that would be all right!
>
> Acting classes for little kids might just not be the best idea -
> they really need is as much opportunity for "dramatic play" asREALLY
> possible. They need other kids to play with, props of all kinds and
> uninterrupted play time.
>
> Roxana went through a phase at about 11 years old when she was
> cranky and just going around bugging everybody all the time. Irealized
> that her big sister, 14, had suddenly stopped playing pretend withher
> - stopped playing with stuffed animals, stopped playing star trek,etc.
> Rox needed more dramatic play time. Since Roya was the one beingmost
> bugged by her, I pointed this out to Roya and she decided toin
> voluntarily play Star Trek with Rox for an hour a day (it often
> stretched into more). This was enough to make a dramatic difference
> Roxana's behavior - it was very noticeable - she turned back intoour
> happy pleasant little girl, overnight!
>
> -pam
> National Home Education Network
> <www.NHEN.org>
> Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
> through information, networking and public relations.
Joan Labbe & Salvatore Genovese
Hi, Kate, and welcome.
My daughter is the same way to the "nth" degree and I used to wonder what
was "wrong" - and I am an introvert! Mary Sheedy Kurcinka's book "The
Spirited Child" talks a lot about introvert / extrovert and that was the
book that finally changed my thinking around to accepting and celebrating
the extreme introvert that my child is. I think it is doubly hard because
it is my belief that it is our cultural norm here in the US anyway to value
and celebrate extroverts - they are the ones who "get things done" the "go
getters" etcetera. I think the contributions and skills of introverts are
vastly undervalued and that affects all of our thinking. I myself used to
feel I was just "stuck" with being an introvert - it would be so much better
to be extroverted.
After reading Mary's book, I stopped trying to "get" my daughter into social
situations I wanted her to handle, or to particularly value that, and I
started to notice and nurture the ways in which she feels comfortable
meeting others (small groups actually one on one or one on two is best; at
our house is best for a while and almost a must the first time). My
daughter loves playing with other kids she likes (and she certainly doesn't
like or have to like them all) in an environment that feels safe to her and
what I think I understand now about her personality is that what affects her
safety level is her exteme sensitivity to others. This is a wonderful
gift - I've seen her comfort other kids, she cares so much about their
feelings. She is also very sensitive to the safety of others in a situation
and how that makes her feel - rough play among other kids in a close
environment will make her feel unsafe for instance even if it is not
directed at her.
So I do not believe there is anything wrong with your daughter, possibly
just something faulty with our own culturally ingrained values and
expectations.
Cheers,
Joan
-----Original Message-----
From: Kate Sitzman [mailto:kate@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 4:02 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] How Much Socializing was Enjoying
Children /Intense Reaction to TV
bit of an issue around here for me lately, and I wanted to throw this out
there. My son turns 4 this week, and he just does not function very well in
social situations - he completely shuts down around unfamiliar kids, and is
awkward and stressed even around those he knows well. At home or among close
relatives he is relaxed, talkative and charming. He doesn't like to go out
much and prefers to stay home most days. My dilemma is that I really don't
know how to tell if this is just a normal personality variation that I just
need to accept, or a deeper problem that needs working on. It seems like he
would like to reach out to kids more often, and would like to be more at
ease with them, so in that sense it creates a problem, but is it serious
enough to require a more concerted effort? Therapy? How do I know? The
ongoing dilemma for me is that I honestly don't know if he needs me to limit
social situations at this point or if he needs me to give him more
opportunities in which to improve his skills. I would love to know how
people make these decisions. I hate to put him in uncomfortable situations,
but does keeping him away from them make it harder for him to develop in
this area? Ack!
Kate (new to list!)
Duvall, WA
Yahoo! Groups Links
My daughter is the same way to the "nth" degree and I used to wonder what
was "wrong" - and I am an introvert! Mary Sheedy Kurcinka's book "The
Spirited Child" talks a lot about introvert / extrovert and that was the
book that finally changed my thinking around to accepting and celebrating
the extreme introvert that my child is. I think it is doubly hard because
it is my belief that it is our cultural norm here in the US anyway to value
and celebrate extroverts - they are the ones who "get things done" the "go
getters" etcetera. I think the contributions and skills of introverts are
vastly undervalued and that affects all of our thinking. I myself used to
feel I was just "stuck" with being an introvert - it would be so much better
to be extroverted.
After reading Mary's book, I stopped trying to "get" my daughter into social
situations I wanted her to handle, or to particularly value that, and I
started to notice and nurture the ways in which she feels comfortable
meeting others (small groups actually one on one or one on two is best; at
our house is best for a while and almost a must the first time). My
daughter loves playing with other kids she likes (and she certainly doesn't
like or have to like them all) in an environment that feels safe to her and
what I think I understand now about her personality is that what affects her
safety level is her exteme sensitivity to others. This is a wonderful
gift - I've seen her comfort other kids, she cares so much about their
feelings. She is also very sensitive to the safety of others in a situation
and how that makes her feel - rough play among other kids in a close
environment will make her feel unsafe for instance even if it is not
directed at her.
So I do not believe there is anything wrong with your daughter, possibly
just something faulty with our own culturally ingrained values and
expectations.
Cheers,
Joan
-----Original Message-----
From: Kate Sitzman [mailto:kate@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 4:02 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] How Much Socializing was Enjoying
Children /Intense Reaction to TV
>>How do you (the collective "you" of the list) tell, or estimate, or whatSorry to answer a question with a question, but "socialization" has been a
>>leads you to believe, that your kids "need" to socialize more?
bit of an issue around here for me lately, and I wanted to throw this out
there. My son turns 4 this week, and he just does not function very well in
social situations - he completely shuts down around unfamiliar kids, and is
awkward and stressed even around those he knows well. At home or among close
relatives he is relaxed, talkative and charming. He doesn't like to go out
much and prefers to stay home most days. My dilemma is that I really don't
know how to tell if this is just a normal personality variation that I just
need to accept, or a deeper problem that needs working on. It seems like he
would like to reach out to kids more often, and would like to be more at
ease with them, so in that sense it creates a problem, but is it serious
enough to require a more concerted effort? Therapy? How do I know? The
ongoing dilemma for me is that I honestly don't know if he needs me to limit
social situations at this point or if he needs me to give him more
opportunities in which to improve his skills. I would love to know how
people make these decisions. I hate to put him in uncomfortable situations,
but does keeping him away from them make it harder for him to develop in
this area? Ack!
Kate (new to list!)
Duvall, WA
Yahoo! Groups Links
TreeGoddess
On Jun 16, 2004, at 4:01 AM, Kate Sitzman wrote:
always been quiet around large groups of children until just this month
really. If there's 3 or less kids other than him he does ok. One on
one is even better. He's now growing out of this, it seems, and is
open to hanging out with kids and even approaching some at parks and at
Jeepers (like Chuck E Cheese). This is all very recent for him, but
totally normal for HIM. KWIM? I didn't push him to be "more social"
and he did it in his own time.
would comment on how quiet he is and I'd laugh because at home we
couldn't shut him up if we wanted to. LOL
same as a year or two from now. He isn't complaining about not having
more friends, is he? This is normal for HIM and he'll out grow it --
or not -- but you can't force him to change who he is. Just relax and
let him be. :)
little guy needs to go to therapy!
Do you have any friends with quiet, laid back children? Maybe you
could invite them over to just hang out. Don't call it a "play date"
necessarily so that the "focus" isn't on your DS and watching what
happens. Just invite them over to hang out and do something all
together, but don't try to push him toward the other child(ren). Just
let what happens happen. :)
HTH
-Tracy-
> My son turns 4 this week, and he just does not function very well inMy question is: How many kids are we talking about? My DS (5) has
> social situations - he completely shuts down around unfamiliar kids,
> and is
> awkward and stressed even around those he knows well.
always been quiet around large groups of children until just this month
really. If there's 3 or less kids other than him he does ok. One on
one is even better. He's now growing out of this, it seems, and is
open to hanging out with kids and even approaching some at parks and at
Jeepers (like Chuck E Cheese). This is all very recent for him, but
totally normal for HIM. KWIM? I didn't push him to be "more social"
and he did it in his own time.
> At home or among close relatives he is relaxed, talkative and charming.Oh, yeah, just like my baby boy. Friends who didn't know Aydn well yet
would comment on how quiet he is and I'd laugh because at home we
couldn't shut him up if we wanted to. LOL
> My dilemma is that I really don't know how to tell if this is just aNah, just accept who he is -- and who he is right now may not be the
> normal personality variation that I just need to accept, or a deeper
> problem that needs working on.
same as a year or two from now. He isn't complaining about not having
more friends, is he? This is normal for HIM and he'll out grow it --
or not -- but you can't force him to change who he is. Just relax and
let him be. :)
> It seems like he would like to reach out to kids more often, andI certainly don't think (from what you've written) that your sweet
> would like to be more at ease with them, so in that sense it creates a
> problem, but is it serious enough to require a more concerted effort?
> Therapy?
little guy needs to go to therapy!
Do you have any friends with quiet, laid back children? Maybe you
could invite them over to just hang out. Don't call it a "play date"
necessarily so that the "focus" isn't on your DS and watching what
happens. Just invite them over to hang out and do something all
together, but don't try to push him toward the other child(ren). Just
let what happens happen. :)
HTH
-Tracy-
Kate Sitzman
Thanks so much for your feedback, everyone!
------------
warms up more quickly to babies and adults.
Well, he isn't complaining exactly - usually he tells me he doesn't like
kids (except his 18month old sister) but sometimes I can see that he wants
to connect more. Recently we had an experience where he wanted to invite a
new neighbor boy over, but when the boy got here, Alex could barely speak to
him at all - I could tell he was really frustrated and embarrassed , even
though the other child was very understanding. I just wished I could help
him more.
I added the therapy thing because several people have mentioned to me
recently that maybe I should have him "evaluated" - I really am not anxious
to do that, or slap any kind of label on his behavior, but I do wonder
sometimes at what point it is considered problematic - I don't want to be
all in denial if he really needs more help than I can provide at some point.
My son is a wonderful person, and I have always tried to honor his
personality for what it is, and that is what led me to unschooling - I never
dreamed I'd homeschool my kids until I woke up one morning and realized that
my child didn't belong in a classroom, and much reading and considering
later, here I am. It is just hard to know, when you encounter a problem area
whether it is an area that needs more attention or less attention.
Kate
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------------
>> My question is: How many kids are we talking about?In some cases, it only takes 1, but it gets worse when there are more. He
warms up more quickly to babies and adults.
>> He isn't complaining about not havingmore friends, is he?
Well, he isn't complaining exactly - usually he tells me he doesn't like
kids (except his 18month old sister) but sometimes I can see that he wants
to connect more. Recently we had an experience where he wanted to invite a
new neighbor boy over, but when the boy got here, Alex could barely speak to
him at all - I could tell he was really frustrated and embarrassed , even
though the other child was very understanding. I just wished I could help
him more.
>I certainly don't think (from what you've written) that your sweetlittle guy needs to go to therapy!
I added the therapy thing because several people have mentioned to me
recently that maybe I should have him "evaluated" - I really am not anxious
to do that, or slap any kind of label on his behavior, but I do wonder
sometimes at what point it is considered problematic - I don't want to be
all in denial if he really needs more help than I can provide at some point.
My son is a wonderful person, and I have always tried to honor his
personality for what it is, and that is what led me to unschooling - I never
dreamed I'd homeschool my kids until I woke up one morning and realized that
my child didn't belong in a classroom, and much reading and considering
later, here I am. It is just hard to know, when you encounter a problem area
whether it is an area that needs more attention or less attention.
Kate
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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etflix.com/Default?mqso=60183350> click here
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