new member intro...
Tracy Freeman
Hello,I am a hs mom to one child who is 8. I am a novice eccelectic
unschooler I guess going on 3 yrs now(or since birth depending on your
view <G> I am happy to be a member and see what I can learn to help in
this adventure and contribute what I can.Thank You! Tracy
unschooler I guess going on 3 yrs now(or since birth depending on your
view <G> I am happy to be a member and see what I can learn to help in
this adventure and contribute what I can.Thank You! Tracy
Joanne
Hi Tracy! :)
I'm Joanne...new to unschooling and this list. Do you have a boy or girl? I'd love to hear more about your unschooling. What is an eclectic unschooler? I don't think I ever heard that term before.
~* Joanne *~ B-)
Mom to Jacqueline (7), Shawna (10) & Cimion (12)
Adopted into our hearts October 30, 2003
I'm Joanne...new to unschooling and this list. Do you have a boy or girl? I'd love to hear more about your unschooling. What is an eclectic unschooler? I don't think I ever heard that term before.
~* Joanne *~ B-)
Mom to Jacqueline (7), Shawna (10) & Cimion (12)
Adopted into our hearts October 30, 2003
--- In [email protected], "Tracy Freeman" <thundermorgaine14@y...> wrote:
>
> Hello,I am a hs mom to one child who is 8. I am a novice eccelectic
> unschooler I guess going on 3 yrs now(or since birth depending on your
> view <G> I am happy to be a member and see what I can learn to help in
> this adventure and contribute what I can.Thank You! Tracy
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tracy Freeman
Hello:) Maddie is 8 and in "3rd grade" she is better at unschooling
than me she often says ...."I don't know what 'grade' I am in....
mom?"<g> I mean that we use a variety of methods sometimes we do a unit
study(as we have Scotland and more recently Ireland)but we DO use
workbooks here and there and I guess most unschoolers don't(?)I
generally use real life applications of things that is how M learned
time and $ to read etc. I sometimes get caught up in when *I* learned a
certain thing and comparing her to others and I shouldn't. I was
worried would she learn to read cause she HATED phonics(hooked on
phonics did NOT work for us!LOL)and she didn't want to write but she'd
color and draw all the time,she couldn't tie her shoes,etc Once her dad
told me to CHILL OUT and I knew I should I left her alone and rather
quickly she picked up all three! Yet I worry if I don't *make* her do
formal English lessons will she 'get it' and be able to write reports
etc "properly"? She wants to use calculator NOW but I won't let her
until she learns simple math 'by hand' but she's NO real interest in
that now *sigh* and if I don't push her will she 'get it' eventually?
And how? I have these "worries" too but I KNOW I have made the right
decision for us as a family;) getting Mom to calm down is the major
issue :)~
Tracy
.... Do you have a boy or girl? I'd love to hear more about your
unschooling. What is an eclectic unschooler? I don't think I ever heard
that term before.
than me she often says ...."I don't know what 'grade' I am in....
mom?"<g> I mean that we use a variety of methods sometimes we do a unit
study(as we have Scotland and more recently Ireland)but we DO use
workbooks here and there and I guess most unschoolers don't(?)I
generally use real life applications of things that is how M learned
time and $ to read etc. I sometimes get caught up in when *I* learned a
certain thing and comparing her to others and I shouldn't. I was
worried would she learn to read cause she HATED phonics(hooked on
phonics did NOT work for us!LOL)and she didn't want to write but she'd
color and draw all the time,she couldn't tie her shoes,etc Once her dad
told me to CHILL OUT and I knew I should I left her alone and rather
quickly she picked up all three! Yet I worry if I don't *make* her do
formal English lessons will she 'get it' and be able to write reports
etc "properly"? She wants to use calculator NOW but I won't let her
until she learns simple math 'by hand' but she's NO real interest in
that now *sigh* and if I don't push her will she 'get it' eventually?
And how? I have these "worries" too but I KNOW I have made the right
decision for us as a family;) getting Mom to calm down is the major
issue :)~
Tracy
.... Do you have a boy or girl? I'd love to hear more about your
unschooling. What is an eclectic unschooler? I don't think I ever heard
that term before.
Robyn Coburn
<<<< Yet I worry if I don't *make* her do
formal English lessons will she 'get it' and be able to write reports
etc "properly"? >>>>
Does she speak English?
"Reports" are entirely a schoolish phenomenon. What are you having her
"report" on? Reports, in the school mode, are a great way to kill a love of
whatever the reports are on.
The best tool for learning about good written expression is extensive
reading (or books-on-tape) in topics that are interesting to the learner. (I
bet Jane Austen never wrote a "report" in her life.)
<<<< She wants to use calculator NOW but I won't let her
until she learns simple math 'by hand' but she's NO real interest in
that now *sigh* and if I don't push her will she 'get it' eventually?>>>>>
Get her the calculator at once - before she learns that she can't count on
you to help her in the ways she needs.
She asked you for a simple tool and you are denying her - the opposite of
unschooling, which is facilitating their explorations to the best of our
abilities - and the limits of our budgets. ;)
The calculator will be a vector towards math understanding. Her path will
likely be from the calculator to her head. She may never *need* to write
simple arithmetic stuff out - again a schoolish need so that "they" can
evaluate the child's progress.
"Don't push" is not the same as "never strew".
<<<<< What is an eclectic unschooler? I don't think I ever heard
that term before. >>>>>
Well probably because, at least on these Unschooling lists, the term is a
tautology at best. Unschooling by its very nature is entirely eclectic -
sparkling, wide ranging, unlimited, individual - as infinitely varied as the
wide world.
People who are *home*schooling utilizing a variety of curriculum and
information sources and styles, such as Unit studies combined with other
school-at-home options, are often termed "eclectic". It is in comparison to
people using a specific single curriculum or Charter type situations.
Robyn L. Coburn
Yahoo! Groups Links
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formal English lessons will she 'get it' and be able to write reports
etc "properly"? >>>>
Does she speak English?
"Reports" are entirely a schoolish phenomenon. What are you having her
"report" on? Reports, in the school mode, are a great way to kill a love of
whatever the reports are on.
The best tool for learning about good written expression is extensive
reading (or books-on-tape) in topics that are interesting to the learner. (I
bet Jane Austen never wrote a "report" in her life.)
<<<< She wants to use calculator NOW but I won't let her
until she learns simple math 'by hand' but she's NO real interest in
that now *sigh* and if I don't push her will she 'get it' eventually?>>>>>
Get her the calculator at once - before she learns that she can't count on
you to help her in the ways she needs.
She asked you for a simple tool and you are denying her - the opposite of
unschooling, which is facilitating their explorations to the best of our
abilities - and the limits of our budgets. ;)
The calculator will be a vector towards math understanding. Her path will
likely be from the calculator to her head. She may never *need* to write
simple arithmetic stuff out - again a schoolish need so that "they" can
evaluate the child's progress.
"Don't push" is not the same as "never strew".
<<<<< What is an eclectic unschooler? I don't think I ever heard
that term before. >>>>>
Well probably because, at least on these Unschooling lists, the term is a
tautology at best. Unschooling by its very nature is entirely eclectic -
sparkling, wide ranging, unlimited, individual - as infinitely varied as the
wide world.
People who are *home*schooling utilizing a variety of curriculum and
information sources and styles, such as Unit studies combined with other
school-at-home options, are often termed "eclectic". It is in comparison to
people using a specific single curriculum or Charter type situations.
Robyn L. Coburn
Yahoo! Groups Links
--
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/129 - Release Date: 10/11/2005
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Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/129 - Release Date: 10/11/2005
Angela
<<sometimes get caught up in when *I* learned a
certain thing and comparing her to others and I shouldn't.>>
No, you shouldn't. :) It is awful to be compared to someone else even if it
is the memory you have of yourself as child. Maybe when you think of doing
these things, you can take deep breaths and find something to do to amuse
yourself. That way, you can get through the moment and not put that onto
your child.
<< I was
worried would she learn to read cause she HATED phonics(hooked on
phonics did NOT work for us!LOL)and she didn't want to write but she'd
color and draw all the time,she couldn't tie her shoes,etc Once her dad
told me to CHILL OUT and I knew I should I left her alone and rather
quickly she picked up all three!>>
How wonderful that you have a supportive dh. Many unschoolers do not. (I
do though, and it's great!)
<< Yet I worry if I don't *make* her do
formal English lessons will she 'get it' and be able to write reports
etc "properly"?>>
She will still be exposed to writing every time she reads something. I know
with my own children, who have always been unschooled, that they love to
write and write often and they ask for help when they need it, whether it is
for spelling, punctuation, or clarity. Over the years I when I have been
helping them with something that they are writing, I've mentioned things
that will help them, like when to use punctuation to make things clearer and
when to use a paragraph, etc. My younger dd (9) loves to write stories and
is very good at it. My older dd enjoys writing articles for our family
newspaper, email, and lists of many things. Both understand all they need
to know to do what they want for now. As they have the need, they will
learn more. (And I'll be there to help them)
<<She wants to use calculator NOW but I won't let her
until she learns simple math 'by hand' but she's NO real interest in
that now *sigh* and if I don't push her will she 'get it' eventually?>>
First of all, I would give her the calculator and let her play with it.
That is how my older dd (probably 9 at the time) learned about square roots.
She just asked what that button was for and we talked about it. It's a very
basic concept. My kids have a good understanding of basic math but they
haven't done a lot of it on paper. (We play lots of games that involve
money, numbers, and logic) There is time for that and I don't worry about it
because it's way more important to know when to use a certain function than
to know have the basics memorized at a certain age. There are all kinds of
kids in school who can do the basic math but who don't know what function to
use to solve a real life problem. There is one girl we know who freezes up
every time anyone asks her a question because she is so nervous about
getting it wrong. It's very sad.
<<And how? I have these "worries" too but I KNOW I have made the right
decision for us as a family;) getting Mom to calm down is the major
issue :)~
Tracy>>
You can do that faster by reading these lists and Sandradodd.com and other
unschooling resources. It'll help you understand it better in your mind and
maybe then when you worry, you can learn to keep it to yourself. :) Good
luck!
Angela game-enthusiast@...
certain thing and comparing her to others and I shouldn't.>>
No, you shouldn't. :) It is awful to be compared to someone else even if it
is the memory you have of yourself as child. Maybe when you think of doing
these things, you can take deep breaths and find something to do to amuse
yourself. That way, you can get through the moment and not put that onto
your child.
<< I was
worried would she learn to read cause she HATED phonics(hooked on
phonics did NOT work for us!LOL)and she didn't want to write but she'd
color and draw all the time,she couldn't tie her shoes,etc Once her dad
told me to CHILL OUT and I knew I should I left her alone and rather
quickly she picked up all three!>>
How wonderful that you have a supportive dh. Many unschoolers do not. (I
do though, and it's great!)
<< Yet I worry if I don't *make* her do
formal English lessons will she 'get it' and be able to write reports
etc "properly"?>>
She will still be exposed to writing every time she reads something. I know
with my own children, who have always been unschooled, that they love to
write and write often and they ask for help when they need it, whether it is
for spelling, punctuation, or clarity. Over the years I when I have been
helping them with something that they are writing, I've mentioned things
that will help them, like when to use punctuation to make things clearer and
when to use a paragraph, etc. My younger dd (9) loves to write stories and
is very good at it. My older dd enjoys writing articles for our family
newspaper, email, and lists of many things. Both understand all they need
to know to do what they want for now. As they have the need, they will
learn more. (And I'll be there to help them)
<<She wants to use calculator NOW but I won't let her
until she learns simple math 'by hand' but she's NO real interest in
that now *sigh* and if I don't push her will she 'get it' eventually?>>
First of all, I would give her the calculator and let her play with it.
That is how my older dd (probably 9 at the time) learned about square roots.
She just asked what that button was for and we talked about it. It's a very
basic concept. My kids have a good understanding of basic math but they
haven't done a lot of it on paper. (We play lots of games that involve
money, numbers, and logic) There is time for that and I don't worry about it
because it's way more important to know when to use a certain function than
to know have the basics memorized at a certain age. There are all kinds of
kids in school who can do the basic math but who don't know what function to
use to solve a real life problem. There is one girl we know who freezes up
every time anyone asks her a question because she is so nervous about
getting it wrong. It's very sad.
<<And how? I have these "worries" too but I KNOW I have made the right
decision for us as a family;) getting Mom to calm down is the major
issue :)~
Tracy>>
You can do that faster by reading these lists and Sandradodd.com and other
unschooling resources. It'll help you understand it better in your mind and
maybe then when you worry, you can learn to keep it to yourself. :) Good
luck!
Angela game-enthusiast@...
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/12/2005 2:34:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
dezigna@... writes:
The calculator will be a vector towards math understanding. Her path will
likely be from the calculator to her head. She may never *need* to write
simple arithmetic stuff out - again a schoolish need so that "they" can
evaluate the child's progress.
~~~~~~~~~~
Oh, can I vouch for this! My son has always played with calculators. His
favorite thing was a piece of paper, pencil, calculator and some various dice,
and he would spend an hour or 2 just totally absorbed in his own world. We have
quite a few cheapy little calculators lying around the house. And at almost
6, he can do math in his head faster than me... adding and subtracting. Even
some simple multiplying.
I never understood why schools basically "forbid" calculators... I was even
shamed for using my fingers. Yet, out in the REAL world, pretty much everyone
uses a calculator.
Jenny
Mom to Danny, Kelsey and Evelyn
Happily homeschooling in Greenfield
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Learning is a treasure that will follow its owner everywhere. ~Chinese
Proverb
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
dezigna@... writes:
The calculator will be a vector towards math understanding. Her path will
likely be from the calculator to her head. She may never *need* to write
simple arithmetic stuff out - again a schoolish need so that "they" can
evaluate the child's progress.
~~~~~~~~~~
Oh, can I vouch for this! My son has always played with calculators. His
favorite thing was a piece of paper, pencil, calculator and some various dice,
and he would spend an hour or 2 just totally absorbed in his own world. We have
quite a few cheapy little calculators lying around the house. And at almost
6, he can do math in his head faster than me... adding and subtracting. Even
some simple multiplying.
I never understood why schools basically "forbid" calculators... I was even
shamed for using my fingers. Yet, out in the REAL world, pretty much everyone
uses a calculator.
Jenny
Mom to Danny, Kelsey and Evelyn
Happily homeschooling in Greenfield
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Learning is a treasure that will follow its owner everywhere. ~Chinese
Proverb
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Billy & Joanne
>>>>From: "Tracy Freeman" Subject: Re: new member intro...I sometimes get caught up in when *I* learned a certain thing and comparing her to others and I shouldn't. >>>>>
That's good that you realise that!
>>>>Yet I worry if I don't *make* her do formal English lessons will she 'get it' and be able to write reports etc "properly"? >>>>Being she's not in school, there's really no reason (that I can think of anyway) to write reports. :-)
>>>>She wants to use calculator NOW but I won't let her until she learns simple math 'by hand' but she's NO real interest in that now *sigh* and if I don't push her will she 'get it' eventually?>>>>>>I think you should get her a calculator of her own. Using a calculator is a skill that people use in the real world, right? :-)
>>>>>I have these "worries" too but I KNOW I have made the rightdecision for us as a family;) getting Mom to calm down is the major
issue>>>>>
Stick around here, read and ask questions. We'll help you calm down! :-)
~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (7), Shawna (10) & Cimion (12)
Adopted October 30, 2003
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tracy Freeman
--- In [email protected], "Robyn Coburn"
<dezigna@c...> wrote:
punctuation,sentence structure etc...I do not remember what
the 'predicate part of a sentence' is and all that "stuff"
a love of whatever the reports are on.
report'
does play w/it and use it in her 'store' etc
<dezigna@c...> wrote:
> Does she speak English?family LOL but I was particularly 'worried' about will she pick up
>
>>>>>She speaks "American" not proper English same as the rest of our
punctuation,sentence structure etc...I do not remember what
the 'predicate part of a sentence' is and all that "stuff"
> "Reports" are entirely a schoolish phenomenon. What are you havingher "report" on? Reports, in the school mode, are a great way to kill
a love of whatever the reports are on.
>>>>>>She basically tells me about a book she just read and I cantell how well her comprehension is by that and that to me is an 'oral
report'
> Get her the calculator at once - before she learns that she can'tcount on you to help her in the ways she needs.
>>>>>>She *has* one I just haven't let her do 345+678= type mathproblems w/it yet. She doesn't know how to do these on her own,she
does play w/it and use it in her 'store' etc
> "Don't push" is not the same as "never strew".TY for your comments and help Robyn;)
>
>>>>>um....this puzzles me
Judy Anderson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tracy Freeman" <thundermorgaine14@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 3:02 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: new member intro...
| --- In [email protected], "Robyn Coburn"
| <dezigna@c...> wrote:
| > Does she speak English?
| >
| >>>>>She speaks "American" not proper English same as the rest of our
| family LOL but I was particularly 'worried' about will she pick up
| punctuation,sentence structure etc...I do not remember what
| the 'predicate part of a sentence' is and all that "stuff"
J: So why does she need to waste time learning things like the predicate
part of a sentence? Punctuation, sentence structure will be picked up by
exposure. I don't remember if you said she likes reading or not, but
throughout her life she will be exposed to grammar. She doesn't need to be
formally taught it any more than she formally needed to be taught how eat
with a spoon. A little guidance when she asks for it, yes, but not lessons.
And being formally taught does not guarantee that she will use proper
grammar all the time. If her life is based in American culture, she should
speak American, not English. Can you imagine if she was writing something
in pencil, made a mistake and asked someone for a rubber? Or asks for help
putting her suitcases into her boot? LOL As far as I can tell, the only
difference between English and American is the slang and some pronunciation.
| > "Don't push" is not the same as "never strew".
| >
| >>>>>um....this puzzles me
|
J: Strewing is offering opportunities. Pushing is forcing something.
Strewing is, "Oh look, there is a jazz class starting up. Is that something
you would like to do?" Pushing is, "Oh look, there is a jazz class starting
up. You should do it. Your father always wanted to, but his parents never
had the money. You shouldn't miss out on this chance. Let's get you signed
up tomorrow."
Judy
Joyce Fetteroll
On Oct 14, 2005, at 3:02 PM, Tracy Freeman wrote:
if they don't know about prepositional phrases and so forth?
At its essence writing is just speaking on paper (or computer
screens ;-) Once someone has accepted that, the differences between
speaking and writing are minor points.
knew is about all unschoolers have to rely on to give us feedback
that it's "working", it will help you to get away from the idea that
the purpose of reading is some vague "comprehension". Sometimes we're
reading (or watching) for some reason other than the author's main
purpose for writing. For instance I read mysteries but I'm really
reading for the characters, though sometimes I couldn't tell someone
what the main characters' names are! A child may watch a movie and
most of it passes them by except for the scenes with a cat. We might
both "fail" at what we were "supposed" to comprehend, but we'd be
getting something more important: what *we* wanted from the story --
and the freedom to do that! :-)
calculator any time she wants. If she sees the answer, she's going to
absorb something about how numbers work.
Kids are forced to go through the motions to add 345+678 without
really understanding how numbers work or what they're really doing.
It's way more important that she get to mess around with numbers, use
a calculator, hear you do math out loud as your trying to figure out
an answer, have allowance to spend, than to do pencil and paper math.
Pencil and paper math is very abstract and isn't a good way to
understand the working of numbers.
Joyce
Answers to common unschooling questions: http://home.earthlink.net/
~fetteroll/rejoycing/
Weekly writing prompts: [email protected]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> but I was particularly 'worried' about will she pick upIsn't it funny that people never worry that kids won't learn to speak
> punctuation,sentence structure etc...I do not remember what
> the 'predicate part of a sentence' is and all that "stuff"
if they don't know about prepositional phrases and so forth?
At its essence writing is just speaking on paper (or computer
screens ;-) Once someone has accepted that, the differences between
speaking and writing are minor points.
> She basically tells me about a book she just read and I canWhile hearing kids spontaneously tell us things we didn't know they
> tell how well her comprehension is by that and that to me is an 'oral
> report'
knew is about all unschoolers have to rely on to give us feedback
that it's "working", it will help you to get away from the idea that
the purpose of reading is some vague "comprehension". Sometimes we're
reading (or watching) for some reason other than the author's main
purpose for writing. For instance I read mysteries but I'm really
reading for the characters, though sometimes I couldn't tell someone
what the main characters' names are! A child may watch a movie and
most of it passes them by except for the scenes with a cat. We might
both "fail" at what we were "supposed" to comprehend, but we'd be
getting something more important: what *we* wanted from the story --
and the freedom to do that! :-)
> She *has* one I just haven't let her do 345+678= type mathDon't worry about some "right" way to do math. Let her use the
> problems w/it yet. She doesn't know how to do these on her own,she
> does play w/it and use it in her 'store' etc
calculator any time she wants. If she sees the answer, she's going to
absorb something about how numbers work.
Kids are forced to go through the motions to add 345+678 without
really understanding how numbers work or what they're really doing.
It's way more important that she get to mess around with numbers, use
a calculator, hear you do math out loud as your trying to figure out
an answer, have allowance to spend, than to do pencil and paper math.
Pencil and paper math is very abstract and isn't a good way to
understand the working of numbers.
Joyce
Answers to common unschooling questions: http://home.earthlink.net/
~fetteroll/rejoycing/
Weekly writing prompts: [email protected]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Tracy Freeman <thundermorgaine14@...>
--- In [email protected], "Robyn Coburn"
<dezigna@c...> wrote:
punctuation,sentence structure etc...I do not remember what
the 'predicate part of a sentence' is and all that "stuff"
-=-=-=-=-
You don't remember. After years and years in school. And yet you find it terribly
important that she know it???
-=-=-=-=-
report'
-=-=-=-
And this is important...why????
-=-=-=-=
does play w/it and use it in her 'store' etc -
=-=-=-
You don't *allow* her to play with a calculator? That's how Duncan figured out
square roots and percentages and how to figgure his algorithms for adding such
large numbers---that's EXACTLY how he learned that math! By playing with a calculator!
You're requiring her to learn how to do boring methodical addition INSTEAD of learning
to PLAY with numbers????
Let her play. She'll figure it out THROUGH play! Seriously!
~Kelly
Kelly LovejoyConference CoordinatorLive and Learn Unschooling Conferencehttp://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: Tracy Freeman <thundermorgaine14@...>
--- In [email protected], "Robyn Coburn"
<dezigna@c...> wrote:
> Does she speak English?family LOL but I was particularly 'worried' about will she pick up
>
>>>>>She speaks "American" not proper English same as the rest of our
punctuation,sentence structure etc...I do not remember what
the 'predicate part of a sentence' is and all that "stuff"
-=-=-=-=-
You don't remember. After years and years in school. And yet you find it terribly
important that she know it???
-=-=-=-=-
>>>>>>She basically tells me about a book she just read and I cantell how well her comprehension is by that and that to me is an 'oral
report'
-=-=-=-
And this is important...why????
-=-=-=-=
>>>>>>She *has* one I just haven't let her do 345+678= type mathproblems w/it yet. She doesn't know how to do these on her own,she
does play w/it and use it in her 'store' etc -
=-=-=-
You don't *allow* her to play with a calculator? That's how Duncan figured out
square roots and percentages and how to figgure his algorithms for adding such
large numbers---that's EXACTLY how he learned that math! By playing with a calculator!
You're requiring her to learn how to do boring methodical addition INSTEAD of learning
to PLAY with numbers????
Let her play. She'll figure it out THROUGH play! Seriously!
~Kelly
Kelly LovejoyConference CoordinatorLive and Learn Unschooling Conferencehttp://liveandlearnconference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn Coburn
<<<< She basically tells me about a book she just read and I can
tell how well her comprehension is by that and that to me is an 'oral
report' >>>>>
This seems like an indication of schoolish thinking (and jargon!) still
permeating your mind. The assumptions behind this sentence could include
that you are in charge of her learning, that you have the important job of
testing her comprehension, that her reading is for the purpose of learning
how to read better or has some other overtly educational purpose.
Further schoolish ideas include that it is ok to engage in inauthentic
speech with children (by which I mean that you have a hidden agenda to
test/quiz her) and that your educational agenda should be paramount, rather
than freeing her to take charge of her own learning journey. Lurking even
more deeply might be the ideas that quizzing has some kind of intrinsic
value (I believe not) and that her academic achievements are important
validations of your parenting.
It can be tough to let go of the desire to keep track of a child's
"progress" or to want to categorize their activities into schoolish terms.
If you are living in a reporting/assessing State, the temptation to keep
living in this mindset is even stronger. In that situation I have two
recommendations. The first is to keep the records and your record-keeping
actions as private as possible, rather than burden your children with the
State's expectations. The second is to keep your records in terms of what
your children have *done* if you can, (still using "educationese") and leave
the educational authorities to make their own assumptions about what the
children have *learnt*.
What about a genuine conversation with her about what she enjoyed about the
book?
<<<<< She *has* one I just haven't let her do 345+678= type math
problems w/it yet. She doesn't know how to do these on her own,she
does play w/it and use it in her 'store' etc >>>>
I have to say I'm kinda floored by the concept of you not "letting" her use
her own calculator for its primary purpose of calculating. I think you are
still dividing life into "educational" and "entertaining" (or perhaps
"trivial play" would be more accurate). I'm going to ask you to think about
why you believe you have the right to tell her what to do with her own tool
or to control her learning, and what you hope to achieve by living in that
mode.
Certainly wider society and the dominant school based culture in this
country give parents both the legal right and the cultural sanction (to
varying points) to be authoritarian or controlling with their children.
However Unschoolers at every moment are making the amazing choice to
voluntarily renounce these entitlements in favor of creating an environment
and culture of freedom and autonomy for their children.
Part of that wonderful choice includes a much greater respect for privacy,
especially privacy of thought, on the part of the children.
I believe that it is damaging to the relationship for a child to believe
that her parent is an arbiter or assessor of her learning or her worth. I
believe it is damaging to the relationship for a child to be placed in a
position of being suspicious about a parent's motives when they initiate a
conversation. I believe that it is damaging to the relationship for the
children to feel that they need permission to engage in any passion or hobby
(beyond the cooperative sharing of resources). I believe it is damaging to
the soul for it to be implied that one's play is less worthy than
traditional academic pursuits.
Unschoolers who have let go of the schoolish in their thinking and their
words, are on the path to much deeper, wonderful, honest relationships with
their children, where the concept of "permission" is utterly replaced with
ideas like "co-operation", "facilitating", "pleasant surprises of unexpected
kindness" and most of all "transcendent moments of magical timing".
Robyn L. Coburn
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.0/132 - Release Date: 10/13/2005
tell how well her comprehension is by that and that to me is an 'oral
report' >>>>>
This seems like an indication of schoolish thinking (and jargon!) still
permeating your mind. The assumptions behind this sentence could include
that you are in charge of her learning, that you have the important job of
testing her comprehension, that her reading is for the purpose of learning
how to read better or has some other overtly educational purpose.
Further schoolish ideas include that it is ok to engage in inauthentic
speech with children (by which I mean that you have a hidden agenda to
test/quiz her) and that your educational agenda should be paramount, rather
than freeing her to take charge of her own learning journey. Lurking even
more deeply might be the ideas that quizzing has some kind of intrinsic
value (I believe not) and that her academic achievements are important
validations of your parenting.
It can be tough to let go of the desire to keep track of a child's
"progress" or to want to categorize their activities into schoolish terms.
If you are living in a reporting/assessing State, the temptation to keep
living in this mindset is even stronger. In that situation I have two
recommendations. The first is to keep the records and your record-keeping
actions as private as possible, rather than burden your children with the
State's expectations. The second is to keep your records in terms of what
your children have *done* if you can, (still using "educationese") and leave
the educational authorities to make their own assumptions about what the
children have *learnt*.
What about a genuine conversation with her about what she enjoyed about the
book?
<<<<< She *has* one I just haven't let her do 345+678= type math
problems w/it yet. She doesn't know how to do these on her own,she
does play w/it and use it in her 'store' etc >>>>
I have to say I'm kinda floored by the concept of you not "letting" her use
her own calculator for its primary purpose of calculating. I think you are
still dividing life into "educational" and "entertaining" (or perhaps
"trivial play" would be more accurate). I'm going to ask you to think about
why you believe you have the right to tell her what to do with her own tool
or to control her learning, and what you hope to achieve by living in that
mode.
Certainly wider society and the dominant school based culture in this
country give parents both the legal right and the cultural sanction (to
varying points) to be authoritarian or controlling with their children.
However Unschoolers at every moment are making the amazing choice to
voluntarily renounce these entitlements in favor of creating an environment
and culture of freedom and autonomy for their children.
Part of that wonderful choice includes a much greater respect for privacy,
especially privacy of thought, on the part of the children.
I believe that it is damaging to the relationship for a child to believe
that her parent is an arbiter or assessor of her learning or her worth. I
believe it is damaging to the relationship for a child to be placed in a
position of being suspicious about a parent's motives when they initiate a
conversation. I believe that it is damaging to the relationship for the
children to feel that they need permission to engage in any passion or hobby
(beyond the cooperative sharing of resources). I believe it is damaging to
the soul for it to be implied that one's play is less worthy than
traditional academic pursuits.
Unschoolers who have let go of the schoolish in their thinking and their
words, are on the path to much deeper, wonderful, honest relationships with
their children, where the concept of "permission" is utterly replaced with
ideas like "co-operation", "facilitating", "pleasant surprises of unexpected
kindness" and most of all "transcendent moments of magical timing".
Robyn L. Coburn
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.0/132 - Release Date: 10/13/2005