shepelec2002

Hello,
I *see* some names here on the list that they are from the MHLA list.
I am from MA as well.
I have several questions about Unschooling. I will be open and blunt
since I want to learn all I can about Unschooling.
I have read several books on Unschooling, including the teenage
liberation hand book.

Here is one of my questions(I hope it makes sense)..way back long
ago, there were lots of children who did not finish "school". Dropped
out in 6th, 7th or 8th grade. I will assume that most of these
children went on to help around the home, or helping out in a family
situation. And you always here "I only had an 8th grade
education"....so isn't unschooling similar to those who never finshed
school? Does that make sense?? How can you get along in a doggy-dog
world like this one without a formal education?

Here is the situation. I have a 12 yo that wants to do NOTHING, and I
mean NOTHING. She HATES Math with a passion, she HATES to read. All
she does is sits around and watches TV, listens to her CD's and talks
on the phone when her friends come home. She is in her second year at
home. I pulled teeth with her last year, and this year it is the same
thing.
She takes Dance class twice a week. That's it.
How in the world can this child unschool, if she is not interested in
doing anything? She thinks learning is a waste of time. She really
could care less.
We have gone from strict textbook approach, to unit studies, to
trying to to just watch educational videos and read alouds. Nope. She
sleeps until 11:00, and lays around. I am ready to send her back to
school.

I WANT to believe in child led learning. But I cannot get it out of
my head that kids or adults who do not have an education, will not go
far in this world. We do not live in an area that has many museums,
or artsy stuff, or educational things(unless we want to visit
Sturbridge village a million times)..I am not crafty, and barely got
out of high school myself.

If someone can offer me a direction here and I would greatly
appreciate it. Thanks
Cindy

Rod Thomas

Your post sounds just like mine a month or two ago. Here we go again.
(I mean that in a good way.) I am still re-reading the replies and
pondering it all daily. And considering going to the conference in a
few weeks.
Flyerkat

>>Here is the situation. I have a 12 yo that wants to do NOTHING, and I
>>mean NOTHING. She HATES Math with a passion, she HATES to read. All
>>she does is sits around and watches TV, listens to her CD's and talks
>>on the phone when her friends come home. She is in her second year at
>>home. I pulled teeth with her last year, and this year it is the same

jlh44music

Hi Cindy,
I'm on the mhla list as well and this is our first year
homeschooling/unschooling. My dd just finished 6th grade, turned 13
on Monday and is deschooling BIG TIME! We're in North Reading
(about 15 mins north of Boston). Where are you?

Have you gone back to the archives to read some of the posts on this
list? I HIGHLY recommend it, there are a lot of experienced
unschoolers who are really good a writing what the whole concept is
about (and are very patient with us "newbies"!) (and it's not easily
summed up, you have to take it in chunks, I've found!) There are also
a lot of great books listed in recent posts and the LINKS section of
this group that are great!

>She HATES Math with a passion, she HATES to read. All
she does is sits around and watches TV, listens to her CD's and talks
on the phone when her friends come home. She is in her second year at
home.>>> >

This sounds a lot like my dd! REALLY! (And I LOVE math and LOVE to
read!) (Go figure). My dd is currently into World of Warcraft on
the computer (and, remember, deschooling BIG TIME! It's VERY
important).

> Sturbridge village a million times)..I am not crafty, and barely
got out of high school myself.>>>>

Do you live near Sturbridge? We're going camping in Oakham (Pine
acres) Columbus Day weekend and plan to go there (never been!). If
you DO live out that way, let me know, maybe we can connect!
(seriously!)

I've really got to get to bed as I'm very tired today, but would love
to chat with you more. Feel free to email me off list, and also in
the meantime, read past posts on this group. I only heard about
unschooling about a year ago, started researching homeshooling 2+ yrs
ago (when I came across the word "unschooling" - I'd never heard
about it before!).

To be continued....
Jann (in North Reading)

Brandie

> so isn't unschooling similar to those
> who never finshed
> school? Does that make sense??

No. Unschooling isn't just not going to school or
just not finishing school. Unschooling is an active
process. Parents who unschool provide rich,
interesting environments for their children. They are
constantly listening to their children, talking to
them, learning about them, providing for
them....parents who unschool are living joyful lives
with their children.

So, if the person who doesn't finish school has an
environment like this, then yes, it can be similiar,
but generally, the person who didn't finish school
doesn't live a unschooling life.


> Here is the situation. I have a 12 yo that wants to
> do NOTHING, and I
> mean NOTHING.

I seriously doubt she literally does nothing -- but
since this is the way you see it, is it safe to say
that her choices are not pleasing to you? Saying that
she is doing NOTHING is extremely negative, and I am
guessing that she knows you don't approve of her
"nothing" activities???


> She HATES Math with a passion, she
> HATES to read.

My guess is that she has either been in public school
or be doing school-at-home? If so, I am not surprised
that she does hate these things.


> She takes Dance class twice a week. That's it.
> How in the world can this child unschool, if she is
> not interested in
> doing anything?

But she is interested in things -- she takes dance,
she listens to CD's, she watches TV, she talks to her
friends about lots of things that interest her.

Unschooling is not about finding so-called
"educational" things to do. Unschooling is about
living a joyful life, with the freedom to pursue her
interests, regardless of whether they seem educational
or not. Her interests right now may be just TV, CD's
and talking on the phone with friends. There is
nothing wrong with that.


> She thinks learning is a waste of
> time. She really
> could care less.

The teaching she has had forced on her has probably
been a waste of time and it makes sense that she could
care less. I would too.


> We have gone from strict textbook approach, to unit
> studies, to
> trying to to just watch educational videos and read
> alouds. Nope. She
> sleeps until 11:00, and lays around. I am ready to
> send her back to
> school.
>

For unschooling to work for her, you -- as her parent
-- must learn as much as you can about how learning
works and about unschooling. This list is a great
place to read and learn and there are several great
websites, such as:
http://sandradodd.com/unschooling
http://home.earthlink.net/~fetteroll/rejoycing/




Brandie
http://tableforfive.blogspot.com
http://homemadeliving.blogspot.com


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Joyce Fetteroll

On Sep 20, 2005, at 3:46 PM, shepelec2002 wrote:

> way back long
> ago, there were lots of children who did not finish "school". Dropped
> out in 6th, 7th or 8th grade. I will assume that most of these
> children went on to help around the home, or helping out in a family
> situation. And you always here "I only had an 8th grade
> education"....

Way back when it was common -- especially out west -- to only go up
to 4th grade or 8th grade or whatever. Those who went further were
the ones who wanted to be teachers ;-) School wasn't seen as the
passageway to success. It was a place to learn to read and learn
arithmetic and get some other basic information about the world. Some
teachers tried to give them more but it wasn't necessary information.

Back then I'd say that school was seen as one piece of learning. It
was learning that was harder to get by living because not everyone
had the skills or had access to books. That's no longer true today.
We each have easy access to more information than they could have
dreamed of back then. And schools are asked to take on the burden of
cramming more information and skills into kids than they were
designed to do.

> so isn't unschooling similar to those who never finshed
> school?

Only similar to those who have clarity of mind and recognize that
school is a waste of time and they have better things to do and then
go out and do them :-) But by and large people buy into the idea that:

> How can you get along in a doggy-dog
> world like this one without a formal education?

so they feel demoralized if they don't succeed in school.

Unschooling is not doing school. But it's a lot more than that. It's
knowing that we learn a lot better by doing what we're interested in,
by being exposed to the world than by being force fed information
that experts tell us we'll need one day.

Unschooling is the way your daughter learned to speak English. It was
a side effect of living. And it worked marvelously! School is the way
kids "learn" Spanish in school. It's hard, it's boring and it doesn't
stick.

> Here is the situation. I have a 12 yo that wants to do NOTHING, and I
> mean NOTHING.

I think you mean she isn't doing anything that looks like school.

Unschooling won't look like kids doing school work on their own. It
looks like play.

But what your daughter is doing right now isn't unschooling. It is
*de*schooling. She needs downtime to recover from being forced to
learn. Rule of thumb is 1 month for every month she was in school (or
made to do school work). And, as Ren often points out, that resets if
you breakdown and make her do some school work even for a little bit.

She needs to feel down to her bones that she's free from restrictions
and that you're happy that she's free and enjoying life. Celebrate
life with her :-)

If your husband had been insisting that you make German food for
dinner every night of your marriage, and then he stopped how long
would it take before you liked German food again? How long would it
be before you didn't feel like he was going to start making you
again? And if he slipped up and made you, what would that feel like?
What if he didn't really want you to stop but heard if he gave you
the choice that you'd start making German food on your own? What if
you knew he was watching and waiting for you to make a German meal
and that everytime you made something else he was judging that you'd
come up short?

That's how your daughter feels. She needs to know that you aren't
waiting for her to pick up a math book or pick up any book to read.

Do things with her. Go to movies. Ask her if there's any music you
should try. Read the lyrics and talk to her about them. Ask her what
she likes about the groups. Go places that are not educational. Dog
shows. Ethnic restaurants. Renaissance fair. Tractor pulls. Shopping
in a town you've never been to. Antique stores. Redecorate her room
to *her* specifications. (Keep your mouth shut if she wants to paint
the ceiling green. (I did when I was a teen :-) But set a budget and
talk about it realistically.)

The goal, of course, is to treat everything the same. A monster truck
rally is no different than a Shakespeare play. it's either an
interest or it's not. Rather than dividing the world into educational
and play (or waste of time or fun), the world should be divided into
"of interest" and "not yet of interest". But she can't get there yet
until she feels confident that everything that was in the "waste of
time" category is just as important as everything that was in the
"educational" category. To get there you need to be as happy that
she's enjoying what she's doing right now as you'd be if she was
reading Shakespeare. Join her in her world.

> She HATES Math with a passion, she HATES to read.

It could be she'll always hate those because they aren't natural
interests. It could be that once she's confident she can learn
something without it becoming a boring lesson, can stop when she
likes, can pick it up when she likes and go no further than she
wants, that she will like those. Right now you have to let it go.

Think of it like a broken leg on a world class runner. Wanting the
runner to get back out running won't make the leg heal faster. It
might in fact delay the healing because the runner would know she's
disappointing you. And in fact she might start to feel that she's
only worthwhile to you when she runs and if you can't see the worth
in her without the running then maybe she doesn't want to run again
ever.

You need to see the worth in her right now. Appreciate the person she
is right now. She needs to not feel that she'll only be worthwhile in
your eyes when she's doing what you think is right.

How would you feel if your husband weighed and measured what you did
against his own yardstick and you were only "good" when you did
things he thought were worthwhile and you were disappointing when you
did things he thought were wastes of time?

A really good book for parents of teens is Parent/Teen Breakthrough:
The relationship approach. Basically you can't influence her
positively until she feels that her worth isn't tied to the choices
she makes.

> She
> sleeps until 11:00, and lays around. I am ready to send her back to
> school.

I spent the entire summer after my freshman year in college watching
HBO. Hours and hours of movies. Often the same movie over and over
since they had so few in rotation. It wouldn't have made me need to
recover less if someone had decided I needed to go back to school to
stop watching TV. I needed to do that.

> kids or adults who do not have an education, will not go
> far in this world.

Everyone has to believe that. We couldn't have forced ourselves to do
what we did in school without going mad if we didn't stuff down the
voices that said "This is a ridiculous waste of time!" and listened
to the voices that said "Experts know better. Just do what they say
and everything will be fine."

> We do not live in an area that has many museums,
> or artsy stuff, or educational things(unless we want to visit
> Sturbridge village a million times)

Don't think so big. Look first at your daughter. Look at her
interests and help her expand from there. Rather than trying to get
stuff into her, help her reach out and pull in the things she wants.
Be her partner.

Joyce
Answers to common unschooling questions: http://home.earthlink.net/
~fetteroll/rejoycing/
Weekly writing prompts: [email protected]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

waltonc32927

Joyce, that was a wonderful response. I've just been browsing your
site and I'm going to send the address to my very own questioners and
doubters for reference. Lots of great information!

We are also new to unschooling and I spend many late nights
researching different homeschool methods and whatnot and found that we
already were unschoolers by virtue of our lifestyle. Our DS, 16, has
spend his deschooling time watching tv, playing runescape, fixing his
bike, doing electrical repairs on thrift store lamps(I had to have
them), watching The History Channel, staying up til ungodly hours, and
sometimes doing "nothing", and we as a family couldn't be happier for
him. This is a great learning experience for all of us as we had to
have trust and patience and open our minds and hearts and just let
him "be".

[email protected]

Hi Cindy,
I'm on the mhla list as well and this is our first year
homeschooling/unschooling. My dd just finished 6th grade, turned 13
on Monday and is deschooling BIG TIME! We're in North Reading
(about 15 mins north of Boston). Where are you?

*HI!!
I know you from the MHLA list!! I live in Palmer, right outside of Sturbridge.


>She HATES Math with a passion, she HATES to read. All
she does is sits around and watches TV, listens to her CD's and talks
on the phone when her friends come home. She is in her second year at
home.>>> >

This sounds a lot like my dd! REALLY! (And I LOVE math and LOVE to
read!) (Go figure). My dd is currently into World of Warcraft on
the computer (and, remember, deschooling BIG TIME! It's VERY
important)
*I have been told about de-schooling. I WANT to believe that is what she
needs.*
.

Do you live near Sturbridge? We're going camping in Oakham (Pine
acres) Columbus Day weekend and plan to go there (never been!). If
you DO live out that way, let me know, maybe we can connect!
(seriously!)
*We camped at PIne Acres all the time!! Oakham is only about 40 minutes from
here!! I would LOVE to try and connect!! It would be nice to have my dd talk
to another unschooler her age. I would LOVE to chat with you more!!! Please
email me off list if you want as well. I am sure you will see me on here quitre a
bit as I ask more questions and gather more information. I am curious though,
for those who live in MA, how you write an "Unschool" Ed Plan, and normally,
what method of evaluation one chooses when Unschooling. We had chosen to Test
these past two years, but I will assume that Unschoolers choose a Narrative
Report? Thanks for your help!!*

Cindy







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Brandie,
Thank you for providing the web links below, I am going to look into these.
Cindy

For unschooling to work for her, you -- as her parent
-- must learn as much as you can about how learning
works and about unschooling. This list is a great
place to read and learn and there are several great
websites, such as:
http://sandradodd.com/unschooling
http://home.earthlink.net/~fetteroll/rejoycing/




Brandie


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

This was interesting..
I never thought of it the way you put it down below.

Wondering, how do Unschoolers fare in College? How do they know upper level
Math if they never formally learned it?
What about upper level Sciences?

I was wondering if there are some people on this list who can share what a
"typical" unschooling day looks like.

Also..If I were decide to just "let it go" and just let my dd pursue her
interests. Do I mention this to her? What do I say to her? Nothing? Something?
What have all of you done when you decided to Unschool? DId you tell you children?

Thank you again
Cindy



But what your daughter is doing right now isn't unschooling. It is
*de*schooling. She needs downtime to recover from being forced to
learn. Rule of thumb is 1 month for every month she was in school (or
made to do school work). And, as Ren often points out, that resets if
you breakdown and make her do some school work even for a little bit.

She needs to feel down to her bones that she's free from restrictions
and that you're happy that she's free and enjoying life. Celebrate
life with her :-)

If your husband had been insisting that you make German food for
dinner every night of your marriage, and then he stopped how long
would it take before you liked German food again? How long would it
be before you didn't feel like he was going to start making you
again? And if he slipped up and made you, what would that feel like?
What if he didn't really want you to stop but heard if he gave you
the choice that you'd start making German food on your own? What if
you knew he was watching and waiting for you to make a German meal
and that everytime you made something else he was judging that you'd
come up short?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

----Original Message-----
From: shepelec2002 <pscs@...>
I will be open and blunt
since I want to learn all I can about Unschooling.
*********

You might see the same kinds of responses! Brace yourself! <g>

But we DO like to hang around people who "want to learn all about unschooling!"
*********

I have read several books on Unschooling, including the teenage
liberation hand book.

*******

Please add the brand new _Parenting A Free Child: An Unschooled Life_
by Rue Kream to your list. Rue's a moderator and a regular poster on this list. She's
compiled a bunch of questions that we've read over and over and put them---with answers---in
a beautiful book.
Frank Smith's _The Book of Learning and Forgetting_ should be on your list as well.

*******



Here is one of my questions(I hope it makes sense)..way back long
ago, there were lots of children who did not finish "school". Dropped
out in 6th, 7th or 8th grade. I will assume that most of these
children went on to help around the home, or helping out in a family
situation. And you always here "I only had an 8th grade
education"....so isn't unschooling similar to those who never finshed
school? Does that make sense??
*****
Hmmmm... *Can be*. Depends on the "drop-out's" attitude. If he leaves school and
thinks he's stupid and that learning sucks, well....no that's not the same thing. IF,
on the other hand, he leaves with his sense of self intact (often hard to do---all that
societal stigma of "uneducated") and with a burning desire to learn more and do more and
BE more---well, he'll be just fine---in fact, probably *better* than the child who stays
in school--- struggling and suffering 'til the bitter end.
************
How can you get along in a doggy-dog
world like this one without a formal education?

********

If you look at the world as "dog-eat-dog," that could be an issue. We see the world as a place
FULL of wonderful, interesting, awe-inspiring things to be touched, viewed, poked, examined,
and enjoyed.
********

Here is the situation. I have a 12 yo that wants to do NOTHING, and I
mean NOTHING. She HATES Math with a passion, she HATES to read. All
she does is sits around and watches TV, listens to her CD's and talks
on the phone when her friends come home. She is in her second year at
home. I pulled teeth with her last year, and this year it is the same
thing.
*******
First question: What do *YOU* do?
Second question: What do 12 year olds DO? They are *very* interested in cultural/social
situations/interactions. They DO listen to music a lot. They DO watch a lot of tv. They DO
talk on the phone with their friends a lot. They DO want to hang out with peers. THAT'S WHAT
12 YEAR OLDS DO! They do MORE of that when they are denied other things they want to do.

They are *just now* starting to be able to assert themselves. At 12, many are just about
as tall as their parents (if not taller!). They are old enough to know that they can use the
same tactics on *you* that were used on *them*! Think about that!
********

She takes Dance class twice a week. That's it.
****

Well, that's MORE than CDs, tv, and phone time.
Can she take MORE dance classes?
*******

How in the world can this child unschool, if she is not interested in
doing anything? She thinks learning is a waste of time. She really
could care less.
*****

She's NOT UNschooling. She's still DEschooling. This is the hardest time in the whole
process. She could stay in this funk for a long, long time. Hell, most schooled kids stay in
it their entire LIVES! They become adults with no interests other than tv and football.
Start ENJOYING her! Rent movies together---do a vertical of Johnny Depp. Rent Ferris Bueller's
Day Off---GREAT Unschooling movie! <G> Encourage her to stay in her pj's all day. Order pizza
for lunch and watch movies all day---WITH HER! Let her pick them out. No fair pushing
Shakespeare if she doesn't want that. Be prepared for a day of horror flicks! <bwg> Have FUN!!!

Paint each others' nails and toes---even if you don't usually. Pretend that *YOU* are 12
again!
*********
We have gone from strict textbook approach, to unit studies, to trying to to just watch educational videos and read alouds. Nope. She sleeps until 11:00, and lays around. I am ready to send her back to school.

********

She doesn't trust you. THAT'S what you need to work on now. Your relationship. Screw everything else!

OH! And all that sleeping? Two things: 1) she's healing---that's what happens when we sleep; our bodies heal themselves. and 2) she's growing---this is a time of HUGE growth---both physically and mentally. She NEEDS sleep---desperately!

*********

I WANT to believe in child led learning. But I cannot get it out of my head that kids or adults who do not have an education, will not go far in this world.

******

That's *your* problem that you'll have to come to terms with. *YOU* had an education. How far have *YOU* gone?

I find it hysterical that professional athletes and actors are always hollering, "Stay in school!" Right---the two professions MOST likely to have ditched school. Cracks me up!

Basically, the saying, "Do what you love; the money will follow" is spot on. Passions can take you much, much further than *ANY* curriculum!

*********

We do not live in an area that has many museums, or artsy stuff, or educational things(unless we want to visit Sturbridge village a million times)..I am not crafty, and barely got out of high school myself.

*****

Whinewhinewhine. NO ONE lives in the perfect spot. Country people bitch about no culture. City folk bitch about no animals/nature. Suburbanites bitch about it all. Quit bitching and enjoy what you *have*! Plant a butterfly garden. Tile your bathroom. Volunteer at wildlife rescue.

MAKE your own museum! MAKE your own art (see the ATCs---Ren? a link? We have been having SOOO much fun with these lately! )! And hell---EVERYTHING is educational!

*****


If someone can offer me a direction here and I would greatly appreciate it.

*******

We need to model for our children what we'd like to see in them. BE fun. Be creative. BE interesting. DO things. She'll follow. Slowly, at first, but she'll follow. Then she'll spurt ahead of you so fast, you won't know what happened! Take pictures! <G>

~Kelly


Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
October 6-9, 2005
http://liveandlearnconference.org


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

<<I want to believe in child led learning...>>

Problem is that you haven't seen it yet. What you have been trying to do is have your child do "adult led learning" but on her own. Child led learning looks very, very different than school. In fact, it looks pretty much nothing like school ....at least until your child and you have thoroughly, thoroughly de-schooled yourselves.

You posted that your child isn't interested in learning....tell her fine. Blow it off. Quit worrying about if learning is happening. Just have fun, play, go to the beach, cook Indonesian food, spend time with older relatives hearing stories from their youth, etc..

Many people ruin their attempts at unschooling because they keep trying to make sure learning is happening. A child expresses an interest in horses and first thing you know, the parents have them hip-deep in documentaries, experiments, etc.. Sure fire way to quash an interest.

Another big stumbling block is to take something fun...like the zoo and turn it into a lesson. The schools do this with papers the kids must fill out about each exhibit. Really, truly, quit worrying about the learning. As long as the kids are having fun, they are learning.

Now about getting a job without a diploma.....lots of jobs don't require a diploma, lots of others you can just go get a GED in a few months at most and take off. You can do that to go to college.

You can spend 12 years in school, 4 in college and still not have a clue what you want to do. I figure it is best to figure out what you want to do then do what you need to get the training to do that job. It might be college, it might be technical school, it might be an apprenticeship, whatever.

I have a HS diploma and graduated college with honors. I have a Master's degree in Clinical Psychology and have no interest in pursuing that field anymore. (When I just wanted to say "quit whining" to a client, I figured it was time to move on <grin>). I am looking into training as a massage therapist and midwife, neither of which require hs diploma both can be fairly lucrative.

Julie S./


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

<<pursuing her interests>>>

I wouldn't hold a big talk with your daughter about the joys of unschooling. I would simply say "yes" to her as much as I could comfortably do and then I would quietly question myself about the extent of my comfort envelope. I would strive to stretch it as far and wide as possible.

<<formal math>>

I have 5 kids. My oldest wants to go to college. She is 14 and highly traditional. She researched the college she wants to attend, looked at their admission policies in regards to homeschoolers and decided her best chance to go there was with a traditional transcript...so she started taking some classes with tutors. She arranges it, makes sure her work is done, etc.. It is her deal. It has nothing to do with me other than my giving moral support. She is described by her tutors as a "fantastic student" even though she hasn't had any formal schooling since the age of 7. It really isn't rocket science.

I would be real surprised if any other of the kids wanted to go to college. But they all understand the basics of algebra theory just by living life and none of them is over the age of 12.

<<typical day>>

We get up about 7:00... have breakfast... the kids feed their many, many animals...we check on the eggs in the incubator...I take Marsie to horseback riding...I check emails while Zach tries to figure out how to fry bologna for a sandwich...Dan and Michelle play on the trampoline while Adriane is finishing her Spanish lessons...we have lunch...Adriane and I clip hooves on the goats...a friend of Dan's comes over and they play Pokemon...Marsie makes cookies...Michelle and Zach help me in the garden...I take Adriane to gymnastics...the other kids watch a cartoon or two on tv...I milk the goats and we all help with dinner...dh is home and we go for a walk...I go get Adriane from gymnastics...the kids all have a massage and a bath and head off for bed.

Julie S.


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soggyboysmom

--- In [email protected], pscs@a... wrote:
> This was interesting..
> I never thought of it the way you put it down below.
>
> Wondering, how do Unschoolers fare in College? How do they know
upper level
> Math if they never formally learned it?
> What about upper level Sciences?
>
> I was wondering if there are some people on this list who can
share what a
> "typical" unschooling day looks like.
>
> Also..If I were decide to just "let it go" and just let my dd
pursue her
> interests. Do I mention this to her? What do I say to her?
Nothing? Something?
> What have all of you done when you decided to Unschool? DId you
tell you children?
>
> Thank you again
> Cindy
>
Remember Field of Dreams? "If you build it they will come" Well, If
they want it they will do it. IF (big IF) a person (child or adult)
wants for whatever reason OF THEIR OWN CHOOSING to explore algebra
or phyics or the life cycle of the Luna moth, they will do what it
takes to get there. An unschooled-from-birth young man who grew up
not far from me (I never met him, he was already in college before
DS was a toddler) graduated with flying colors from a private
university with a double major, worked a job, had an apartment in
Manhattan... sounds a lot more 'life-like' than when I was in
college doing enough to pass and partying the weekends
away... "upper level" math and "upper level" science - I'm guessing
you probably took them in high school. How much of it do you use?
How much do you even remember? (unless of course you are a working
professional engineer or something - then you probably use some and
LOOK UP a lot of it in tables and use a computer and/or calculator a
bunch). The point is, IF it is needed, the entire typical K-12 'math
curriculum' in the typical school district can be absorbed WHEN the
interest is there, in a summer. really.

As far as what you should do - say Yes a lot. Can we go pick up all
Johnny Depp's movies? Yes - (as many as we can afford right now/as
many as they have in stock/as many as we can carry/whatever). To
the 'unspoken' requests (like sleeping until noon), don't say
anything - find something to do yourself (quietly) and leave it be.
Teenagers (and preteens) NEED almost as much sleep as a newborn,
that's how much growth physically and developmentally is going on.
Coupled with a shift in melatonin production, their sleep schedules
shift around (thus the ability of college students to pull all-
nighters) often leaving them wide awake at 2 am and fast asleep at 2
pm. Even *public schools* in many areas acknowldege this and are
trying to work out ways to shift the high school schedules a little
later in the day.

DS is only 7 but here's roughly what a day looks like:

I get up, feed the dog, and go to work (arriving at my desk between
7:30 and 8:00). DH is sometimes up when I leave, sometimes just
waking. DS is usually asleep still (but not always, this morning he
was up before I left). Typically, DH and DS will play a round of
computer/video games (currently Age of Empires and StarCraft are
big - network computer gaming - DS has a desktop and an old laptop
so he can be closer to wherever DH is with his nice new laptop - for
instance, this morning when I called around 9:30, DH was playing
against the computer in Age of Empires and DS was running the
terrain editor module which is used to design the playing field -
you can add mountains, rivers, lakes, forests, etc). Somewhere
between 9 and 10 roughly, they'll eat something. DS will head off to
watch TV or play while DH handles a household task (dishes, start
some laundry, whatever). Then they'll probably play some more - this
time maybe 007 Nightfire on the PS2. Additional household stuff
might happen - more loads of laundry if it's laundry day (DH does
the whole week's worth at one time so he can ignore it for the rest
of the week). They might go out to a park...or not. Fridays they
spend the afternoon at a homeschooling friend's house - their 3 boys
and DS go run around and play while DH and the mom play Scrabble and
Rummikub. So, generically, the afternoon is playing. I get home,
feed the dog (unless DS has already done it or wants to do it once
I'm home), we have dinner. Sometimes DS eats at the table, sometimes
he chooses to take it to a stack table in the living room if he's
mid-stream of watching something. After dinner, we might watch a
movie together or they might play more and I'll read or watch a
movie. We might go out and run an errand of some sort. During the
summer, Friday nights were spent at the drive in near us (yup we're
lucky enough to have a double feature showing, 3 screen drive in
about 15 minutes away). Around 9:30 or 10, I head to bed. They'll
usually head that way soon after. We may read, watch TV, whatever as
the day winds down. I'm usually first asleep and they finish the
game, movie, TV program and drift off to sleep. Sometimes DH and I
will both be mostly asleep and DS will go to his room to read or
draw or play on his desktop computer for a while before coming back
in to snuggle and fall asleep. It's about 50/50 whether I'll
actually wake up enough to walk him back to his bed later (odds are
higher in the sticky humid summer weather than in the cold winter -
he's a nice handy little space heater!) And so it goes.

Did you note that he might go read? He's 7. Never been to school.
Never had a formal 'lesson' or curriculum. Yet he reads. When we
were in the car the other day, he merrily spent time doubling
numbers - 25, 50, 100, 200, 400, 800, then he got a little stuck so
I filled in 1600, he did 3200, then we were at our destination. He
can also determine whether something is odd or even. And so on -
"math stuff" - again, without any formal 'schooling' in any form.
Lots of questions, answers, discussions, explorations. We decided
pretty much when he was born that we'd unschool. So we didn't
have 'transitional' issues to deal with. We've just lived life all
along.

--Deb

jlh44music

> I know you from the MHLA list!! I live in Palmer, right outside of
Sturbridge.
> *I have been told about de-schooling. I WANT to believe that is
what she needs.*>>>>

BELIEVE!!!! And also what a lot of others have been saying about
SLEEPING at this age. Danielle has been sleeping on average 10 hours
(or until SHE'S ready to wake up). She's growing, going through a
lot of development and physical changes, and healing.

> *We camped at PIne Acres all the time!! Oakham is only about 40
minutes from here!! I would LOVE to try and connect!! It would be
nice to have my dd talk to another unschooler her age. I would LOVE
to chat with you more!!! Please email me off list if you want as
well.>>

I'll email you about that weekend and if we can work it out,
DEFINITELY let's try to get together! We've never camped in MA (we
love Maine and have been to a couple of places in NH, we've only been
doing it a couple of years)

>> I am sure you will see me on here quitre a bit as I ask more
questions and gather more information. I am curious though,
for those who live in MA, how you write an "Unschool" Ed Plan, and
normally, what method of evaluation one chooses when Unschooling. We
had chosen to Test these past two years, but I will assume that
Unschoolers choose a Narrative Report? Thanks for your help!!*>>

I will be doing a narrative and have some samples and lots of lists
of helpful info and "educationese" words etc. I'll send them to you
when I email (will have to do that later - we're off to volunteer
socializing kittens at a "cat" foster dad's house. He wants them to
get used to lots of different people, not just him, so when they're
ready to be adopted they're used to being with others (many of the
moms were wild/abandoned/ferral, sometimes the moms are pretty
friendly (if they had lived with people before) but some of the
others are pretty unfriendly because they're scared and not used to
humans.
Jann

[email protected]

Kelly,
Your post put a smile on my face :-)

You are so right, we do whine don't we? None of us are ever happy...LOL

Thanks for you uplifting post. Eveyone here has been so helpful...

Cindy


Whinewhinewhine. NO ONE lives in the perfect spot. Country people bitch about
no culture. City folk bitch about no animals/nature. Suburbanites bitch about
it all. Quit bitching and enjoy what you *have*! Plant a butterfly garden.
Tile your bathroom. Volunteer at wildlife rescue.

MAKE your own museum! MAKE your own art (see the ATCs---Ren? a link? We have
been having SOOO much fun with these lately! )! And hell---EVERYTHING is
educational!

*****


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[email protected]

You can spend 12 years in school, 4 in college and still not have a clue what
you want to do. I figure it is best to figure out what you want to do then
do what you need to get the training to do that job. It might be college, it
might be technical school, it might be an apprenticeship, whatever.

*This is so true. I spent 12 years in school, and 1 year in College and hated
all of it.*

Cindy


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[email protected]

Deb,
I remember this movie well. Actually, I just watched it a few weeks ago for
the first time. As far as any math's or sciences, I especially do not remember
any upper level Math because I hated it. Science, I do remember quite a bit,
because I enjoyed it. I do not use it, but I can remember it. BUT, that is
because it was my area of interest only. The more I read here, the more I am
realizing.*
Cindy

Remember Field of Dreams? "If you build it they will come" Well, If
they want it they will do it. IF (big IF) a person (child or adult)
wants for whatever reason OF THEIR OWN CHOOSING to explore algebra
or phyics or the life cycle of the Luna moth, they will do what it
takes to get there. An unschooled-from-birth young man who grew up
not far from me (I never met him, he was already in college before
DS was a toddler) graduated with flying colors from a private
university with a double major, worked a job, had an apartment in
Manhattan... sounds a lot more 'life-like' than when I was in
college doing enough to pass and partying the weekends
away... "upper level" math and "upper level" science - I'm guessing
you probably took them in high school. How much of it do you use?
How much do you even remember? (unless of course you are a working
professional engineer or something - then you probably use some and
LOOK UP a lot of it in tables and use a computer and/or calculator a
bunch). The point is, IF it is needed, the entire typical K-12 'math
curriculum' in the typical school district can be absorbed WHEN the
interest is there, in a summer. really.


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[email protected]

In a message dated 9/21/2005 11:18:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
jnjstau@... writes:

You can spend 12 years in school, 4 in college and still not have a clue
what you want to do.



I am sooo one of "those" people... 12 yrs of school, 5 of college and a B.A.
in English... And during that whole time, have wanted "to be" so many
things...

Jenny
Mom to Danny, Kelsey and Evelyn
Happily homeschooling in Greenfield
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Learning is a treasure that will follow its owner everywhere. ~Chinese
Proverb



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