spanking christians
Ren Allen
" My opinion
is that Christianity is meant to be evangalistic. That is to say
that
Christians who earnestly believe that Christ died for everyones sin,
and belief in Him is the only way to heaven; we can not work our way
there or ever be good enough to earn it, believe that they should
share that with everyone. "
I guess that's one of my huge issues with most Christians....I'm
tired of anyone assuming what I need.
The other issue I have, is the Bible says that anyone ignorant of
truth is innocent and not to be held accountable. So if people that
are ignorant of Christ and the gospel message are going to heaven,
why would anyone evangalize to them and risk sending them to hell?
Seems evangalism would send more to hell than if you just let
everyone be ignorant.
One of the many paradoxes that make zero sense. 'Course, that's why
I'm not a Christian.;)
Ren
is that Christianity is meant to be evangalistic. That is to say
that
Christians who earnestly believe that Christ died for everyones sin,
and belief in Him is the only way to heaven; we can not work our way
there or ever be good enough to earn it, believe that they should
share that with everyone. "
I guess that's one of my huge issues with most Christians....I'm
tired of anyone assuming what I need.
The other issue I have, is the Bible says that anyone ignorant of
truth is innocent and not to be held accountable. So if people that
are ignorant of Christ and the gospel message are going to heaven,
why would anyone evangalize to them and risk sending them to hell?
Seems evangalism would send more to hell than if you just let
everyone be ignorant.
One of the many paradoxes that make zero sense. 'Course, that's why
I'm not a Christian.;)
Ren
Jennifer
Do you know where it says that, Ren?? I'm not familiar
with anything like that. There is a passage in Romans
that says something like "all people are without
excuse" because people can "see" God is the world he
created. (Rough paraphrase!)
I know there are Biblical passages that say you need
the "faith of Abraham" to be saved or have a
relationship with God. Obviously Abraham did not know
anything about Jesus ... so I believe it is at least
possible to have a true relationship with God without
having heard of Jesus.
Jenny
--- Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
with anything like that. There is a passage in Romans
that says something like "all people are without
excuse" because people can "see" God is the world he
created. (Rough paraphrase!)
I know there are Biblical passages that say you need
the "faith of Abraham" to be saved or have a
relationship with God. Obviously Abraham did not know
anything about Jesus ... so I believe it is at least
possible to have a true relationship with God without
having heard of Jesus.
Jenny
--- Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
> The other issue I have, is the Bible says that____________________________________________________
> anyone ignorant of
> truth is innocent and not to be held accountable. So
> if people that
> are ignorant of Christ and the gospel message are
> going to heaven,
> why would anyone evangalize to them and risk sending
> them to hell?
> Seems evangalism would send more to hell than if you
> just let
> everyone be ignorant.
> One of the many paradoxes that make zero sense.
> 'Course, that's why
> I'm not a Christian.;)
>
> Ren
>
>
>
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Christine Becker
We are a society, and have been, for thousands of years indundated by
Christ. If I never said anything to you via this forum could you say
you had never heard? God is on our money, in our constitution and so
on and only the people who live in the 10/40 widow have not a least
heard the name of Christ.
I believe that the ignorance you refered to is in reference to
babies, children, and people not of sound mind that are incapeable of
comprehending basic concepts or the larger concept of Christ. Those
are considered innocent and not held accountable.
--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
<starsuncloud@n...> wrote:
Christ. If I never said anything to you via this forum could you say
you had never heard? God is on our money, in our constitution and so
on and only the people who live in the 10/40 widow have not a least
heard the name of Christ.
I believe that the ignorance you refered to is in reference to
babies, children, and people not of sound mind that are incapeable of
comprehending basic concepts or the larger concept of Christ. Those
are considered innocent and not held accountable.
--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
<starsuncloud@n...> wrote:
> " My opinionsin,
> is that Christianity is meant to be evangalistic. That is to say
> that
> Christians who earnestly believe that Christ died for everyones
> and belief in Him is the only way to heaven; we can not work ourway
> there or ever be good enough to earn it, believe that they should
> share that with everyone. "
>
> I guess that's one of my huge issues with most Christians....I'm
> tired of anyone assuming what I need.
>
> The other issue I have, is the Bible says that anyone ignorant of
> truth is innocent and not to be held accountable. So if people that
> are ignorant of Christ and the gospel message are going to heaven,
> why would anyone evangalize to them and risk sending them to hell?
> Seems evangalism would send more to hell than if you just let
> everyone be ignorant.
> One of the many paradoxes that make zero sense. 'Course, that's why
> I'm not a Christian.;)
>
> Ren
christine becker
The faith of Abraham means you would entrust that God has your best interest in mind whether it fits what you believe to be your best interest. Abraham was not a perfect man, he sold his wife to Kings to save his own hide when he was an alien in foreign countries and slept with his wife's maidservant thereby committing adultry but he had faith that God would do what he said he would do, but that is old testament and although we believe the old testament because it precurses the new testament, we do not live by it. We live by the new testament which is grace through Christ. Grace that we are not perfect and we will screw up but that if we seek forgiveness for those things whether thought, word or deed and turn away from doing it again, we will receive it.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jennifer
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] spanking christians
Do you know where it says that, Ren?? I'm not familiar
with anything like that. There is a passage in Romans
that says something like "all people are without
excuse" because people can "see" God is the world he
created. (Rough paraphrase!)
I know there are Biblical passages that say you need
the "faith of Abraham" to be saved or have a
relationship with God. Obviously Abraham did not know
anything about Jesus ... so I believe it is at least
possible to have a true relationship with God without
having heard of Jesus.
Jenny
--- Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
> The other issue I have, is the Bible says that
> anyone ignorant of
> truth is innocent and not to be held accountable. So
> if people that
> are ignorant of Christ and the gospel message are
> going to heaven,
> why would anyone evangalize to them and risk sending
> them to hell?
> Seems evangalism would send more to hell than if you
> just let
> everyone be ignorant.
> One of the many paradoxes that make zero sense.
> 'Course, that's why
> I'm not a Christian.;)
>
> Ren
>
>
>
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
a.. Visit your group "unschoolingbasics" on the web.
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Christine Becker <crazymuthr5@...>
We are a society, and have been, for thousands of years indundated by
Christ.
-=-=-=-
I'm guessing a typo or hyperbole.
Christianity is about 2,000 years old. And "inundated" is a bit
exagerrated.
-=-=-=-=-
I believe that the ignorance you refered to is in reference to
babies, children, and people not of sound mind that are incapeable of
comprehending basic concepts or the larger concept of Christ. Those
are considered innocent and not held accountable.
-=-=-=
Including jews and muslims? I'd say most have heard, and yet....
~Kelly
From: Christine Becker <crazymuthr5@...>
We are a society, and have been, for thousands of years indundated by
Christ.
-=-=-=-
I'm guessing a typo or hyperbole.
Christianity is about 2,000 years old. And "inundated" is a bit
exagerrated.
-=-=-=-=-
I believe that the ignorance you refered to is in reference to
babies, children, and people not of sound mind that are incapeable of
comprehending basic concepts or the larger concept of Christ. Those
are considered innocent and not held accountable.
-=-=-=
Including jews and muslims? I'd say most have heard, and yet....
~Kelly
Elisa Allender
Ren, there are NO paradoxes in the Bible. So many people mistakenly
believe that but if one studies the Bible in its entirety then one will
see that it all ultimately comes down to Jesus (without confusion or
anything of that nature.)
I would love for you to tell us where you find the Bible verse(s)
backing up what you said below about "anyone ignorant of truth is
innocent...." because nowhere in my Bible does it say anything like that.
We are directed to go and tell ALL nations and God is basically
"waiting" until all nations are told. Doors open in far-distant lands
all the time allowing missionaries / evangelists to reach those far-off
remote places to tell those peoples about Jesus. In Romans 3:23 we are
told that "ALL of us have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God."
This includes those people in the remotest corners of the Earth. In
Romans 1:18-20 we read "The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven
against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth
by their wickedness, since _*what may be known about God is plain to
them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of
the world God's invisible qualities - have been clearly seen, being
understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."
*_Even people who haven't heard about Jesus have a conscience and an
understanding of right from wrong and an understanding of a greater
"being" who created everything.....that's God! God has made everyone
with that knowledge! Now it is up to Christians to reach everyone with
the good news of Jesus shedding His precious blood for us to save us
from the eternal lake of fire.
We also know that "God wants all men to be saved and to come to a
knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:4) so we must trust Him with our
uncertainties about the fate of others. We may be unsure about what God
will do with those who never hear the gospel but there is no doubt about
OUR responsibility toward those who have yet to hear! We are directed
over and over again that we are to "make disciples of all nations" (Matt
28:19). He has entrusted us with the privilege of taking his gospel "to
the ends of the earth." (Acts 1:8) If God is not wanting anyone to
perish (2 Peter 3:9), then we should not stand around idle while untold
millions go through life never hearing the good news of God's mercy.
Now He will deal differently with those who are told about Jesus and
refuse to accept it and/or lead others away from that knowledge through
their "false teachings"! In John 3:36 "Whoever believes in the Son has
eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's
wrath remains on him."
Elisa
Ren Allen wrote:
believe that but if one studies the Bible in its entirety then one will
see that it all ultimately comes down to Jesus (without confusion or
anything of that nature.)
I would love for you to tell us where you find the Bible verse(s)
backing up what you said below about "anyone ignorant of truth is
innocent...." because nowhere in my Bible does it say anything like that.
We are directed to go and tell ALL nations and God is basically
"waiting" until all nations are told. Doors open in far-distant lands
all the time allowing missionaries / evangelists to reach those far-off
remote places to tell those peoples about Jesus. In Romans 3:23 we are
told that "ALL of us have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God."
This includes those people in the remotest corners of the Earth. In
Romans 1:18-20 we read "The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven
against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth
by their wickedness, since _*what may be known about God is plain to
them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of
the world God's invisible qualities - have been clearly seen, being
understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."
*_Even people who haven't heard about Jesus have a conscience and an
understanding of right from wrong and an understanding of a greater
"being" who created everything.....that's God! God has made everyone
with that knowledge! Now it is up to Christians to reach everyone with
the good news of Jesus shedding His precious blood for us to save us
from the eternal lake of fire.
We also know that "God wants all men to be saved and to come to a
knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:4) so we must trust Him with our
uncertainties about the fate of others. We may be unsure about what God
will do with those who never hear the gospel but there is no doubt about
OUR responsibility toward those who have yet to hear! We are directed
over and over again that we are to "make disciples of all nations" (Matt
28:19). He has entrusted us with the privilege of taking his gospel "to
the ends of the earth." (Acts 1:8) If God is not wanting anyone to
perish (2 Peter 3:9), then we should not stand around idle while untold
millions go through life never hearing the good news of God's mercy.
Now He will deal differently with those who are told about Jesus and
refuse to accept it and/or lead others away from that knowledge through
their "false teachings"! In John 3:36 "Whoever believes in the Son has
eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's
wrath remains on him."
Elisa
Ren Allen wrote:
> " My opinion[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> is that Christianity is meant to be evangalistic. That is to say
> that
> Christians who earnestly believe that Christ died for everyones sin,
> and belief in Him is the only way to heaven; we can not work our way
> there or ever be good enough to earn it, believe that they should
> share that with everyone. "
>
> I guess that's one of my huge issues with most Christians....I'm
> tired of anyone assuming what I need.
>
> The other issue I have, is the Bible says that anyone ignorant of
> truth is innocent and not to be held accountable. So if people that
> are ignorant of Christ and the gospel message are going to heaven,
> why would anyone evangalize to them and risk sending them to hell?
> Seems evangalism would send more to hell than if you just let
> everyone be ignorant.
> One of the many paradoxes that make zero sense. 'Course, that's why
> I'm not a Christian.;)
>
> Ren
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> * Visit your group "unschoolingbasics
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics>" on the web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.14/79 - Release Date: 8/22/2005
>
>
Jen A
> In John 3:36 "Whoever believes in the Son hasWow. That's a screenful! Um, I'd much rather read about pretty much
> eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's
> wrath remains on him."
anything else actually, but unschooling especially. Oh, and there's no
way you can tell me that I have not "seen life". I have had two
glorious births, I have stood at the shore of the ocean, I have held a
baby tiger in my arms and swam with sharks. I have made love to the
love of my life and I have felt the deepest pain at the loss of a dear
family member. The other day my 2yo daughter woke up and her first
words were to her brother who was just stirring. "I love you, B" she
said. "I love you too, Eliza," he said groggily. I am flooded with life!
Jenny, a practicing Living Thing
Elisa Allender
I was merely replying to a post by Ren. You could have hit delete...I
didn't ask you to read the whole thing. LOL
I don't believe I told you you were not seeing life.....perhaps that was
your interpretation. Although no matter what we experience
here on earth it can't compare to what heaven will be like :-) .
Jen A wrote:
didn't ask you to read the whole thing. LOL
I don't believe I told you you were not seeing life.....perhaps that was
your interpretation. Although no matter what we experience
here on earth it can't compare to what heaven will be like :-) .
Jen A wrote:
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > In John 3:36 "Whoever believes in the Son has
> > eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's
> > wrath remains on him."
>
> Wow. That's a screenful! Um, I'd much rather read about pretty much
> anything else actually, but unschooling especially. Oh, and there's no
> way you can tell me that I have not "seen life". I have had two
> glorious births, I have stood at the shore of the ocean, I have held a
> baby tiger in my arms and swam with sharks. I have made love to the
> love of my life and I have felt the deepest pain at the loss of a dear
> family member. The other day my 2yo daughter woke up and her first
> words were to her brother who was just stirring. "I love you, B" she
> said. "I love you too, Eliza," he said groggily. I am flooded with life!
>
> Jenny, a practicing Living Thing
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> * Visit your group "unschoolingbasics
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics>" on the web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.14/79 - Release Date: 8/22/2005
>
>
averyschmidt
> I don't believe I told you you were not seeing life.....perhaps thatwas
> your interpretation.Here was your bible quote:
***In John 3:36 "Whoever believes in the Son has
eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's
wrath remains on him."***
Patti
Elisa Allender
hmmm, so are you saying you "reject the Son"? All I did was quote
scripture.....whether or not I was speaking to YOU literally is up to
you to decide......based on what you believe.
averyschmidt wrote:
scripture.....whether or not I was speaking to YOU literally is up to
you to decide......based on what you believe.
averyschmidt wrote:
> > I don't believe I told you you were not seeing life.....perhaps that[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> was
> > your interpretation.
>
> Here was your bible quote:
> ***In John 3:36 "Whoever believes in the Son has
> eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's
> wrath remains on him."***
>
> Patti
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> * Visit your group "unschoolingbasics
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics>" on the web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.14/79 - Release Date: 8/22/2005
>
>
coolcrew
This is all getting really OT. Are we really here to debate whether the bible is true or not are or for unschooling?
Ruth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ruth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: coolcrew <grayfamily9@...>
This is all getting really OT. Are we really here to debate whether
the bible is
true or not are or for unschooling?
Ruth
-=-=-
Right----back on topic, guys. This is not a religion list, and an
unschooling list can get side-tracked by religion *very* easily!
Now, back to your regularly scheduled program....
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
October 6-9, 2005
http://liveandlearnconference.org
From: coolcrew <grayfamily9@...>
This is all getting really OT. Are we really here to debate whether
the bible is
true or not are or for unschooling?
Ruth
-=-=-
Right----back on topic, guys. This is not a religion list, and an
unschooling list can get side-tracked by religion *very* easily!
Now, back to your regularly scheduled program....
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
October 6-9, 2005
http://liveandlearnconference.org