sex and alcohol
Ren Allen
"So, you talk about it openly and its not a fascination. But that
doesn't mean they wont drink. Will you allow it?"
I've already "allowed" it.... My children know that I'm not against
drinking, I have issues with irresponsible drinking. I trust them to
make their own decisions, I trust that will be the best decision for
their life. I also give them good information ahead of time if I see
something that might go wrong.
My oldest knows that I will gladly pick him up at any time of night,
from ANYWHERE, no questions asked. His closest friends are
unschoolers too....none of them think drinking is anything
fascinating. They don't care about being out late, they are up late
anytime they want. They don't crave getting away from their
families, they think their families are pretty awesome.
Many factors are affecting how these teens interact with their peers
and community. Far different from my own life.
I recognize that I can't allow or disallow anything...only create a
situation in which we have optimum communication and trust. He's
going to do things whether I allow it or not, he's 15!!
He has no reason to sneak or try anything harmful, his parents are
on his side.
Not to say he won't do things I disagree with...that is a very real
possibility, but something I'm prepared to accept and keep dialogue
open about.
Actually, he plays video games and listens to music I find very
disagreeable at times. But it all comes back to trust.
I see the violent video games and scratch my head, but then he joins
peace rallies and shows a depth of character and kindness that not
many at his age seem to possess and I know he's following his own
light.
If he chooses to drink or have sex, he will be armed with good
information, parents that are available, more common sense than most
teens and the ability to know himself on a deep level.
That's going into it well armed....more than I ever had.
Ren
doesn't mean they wont drink. Will you allow it?"
I've already "allowed" it.... My children know that I'm not against
drinking, I have issues with irresponsible drinking. I trust them to
make their own decisions, I trust that will be the best decision for
their life. I also give them good information ahead of time if I see
something that might go wrong.
My oldest knows that I will gladly pick him up at any time of night,
from ANYWHERE, no questions asked. His closest friends are
unschoolers too....none of them think drinking is anything
fascinating. They don't care about being out late, they are up late
anytime they want. They don't crave getting away from their
families, they think their families are pretty awesome.
Many factors are affecting how these teens interact with their peers
and community. Far different from my own life.
I recognize that I can't allow or disallow anything...only create a
situation in which we have optimum communication and trust. He's
going to do things whether I allow it or not, he's 15!!
He has no reason to sneak or try anything harmful, his parents are
on his side.
Not to say he won't do things I disagree with...that is a very real
possibility, but something I'm prepared to accept and keep dialogue
open about.
Actually, he plays video games and listens to music I find very
disagreeable at times. But it all comes back to trust.
I see the violent video games and scratch my head, but then he joins
peace rallies and shows a depth of character and kindness that not
many at his age seem to possess and I know he's following his own
light.
If he chooses to drink or have sex, he will be armed with good
information, parents that are available, more common sense than most
teens and the ability to know himself on a deep level.
That's going into it well armed....more than I ever had.
Ren
Ren Allen
I wanted to add, that my parents didn't allow a lot of things...
let's see,
I wasn't allowed to go to the dances at school
I wasn't allowed to drink
I wasn't allowed to do drugs
I wasn't allowed to have pre-marital sex
I wasn't allowed to wear jeans to school
I wasn't allowed to wear makeup
I wasn't allowed to get my hair cut
Guess what? I had done all of the above and much more by the age of 16.
Ren
let's see,
I wasn't allowed to go to the dances at school
I wasn't allowed to drink
I wasn't allowed to do drugs
I wasn't allowed to have pre-marital sex
I wasn't allowed to wear jeans to school
I wasn't allowed to wear makeup
I wasn't allowed to get my hair cut
Guess what? I had done all of the above and much more by the age of 16.
Ren
Rod Thomas
I know they will, that is my point also. But the question I was asking
is whether they can sit at home and get drunk?
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ren Allen
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 11:05 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] sex and alcohol
I wanted to add, that my parents didn't allow a lot of things...
let's see,
I wasn't allowed to go to the dances at school
I wasn't allowed to drink
I wasn't allowed to do drugs
I wasn't allowed to have pre-marital sex
I wasn't allowed to wear jeans to school
I wasn't allowed to wear makeup
I wasn't allowed to get my hair cut
Guess what? I had done all of the above and much more by the age of 16.
Ren
Yahoo! Groups Links
is whether they can sit at home and get drunk?
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ren Allen
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 11:05 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] sex and alcohol
I wanted to add, that my parents didn't allow a lot of things...
let's see,
I wasn't allowed to go to the dances at school
I wasn't allowed to drink
I wasn't allowed to do drugs
I wasn't allowed to have pre-marital sex
I wasn't allowed to wear jeans to school
I wasn't allowed to wear makeup
I wasn't allowed to get my hair cut
Guess what? I had done all of the above and much more by the age of 16.
Ren
Yahoo! Groups Links
coolcrew
Sounds like my parents Ren. Only add to that I wasn' t allowed to see my friends on a Sunday and I wasn't allowed to buy anything on a Sunday. I had to go to church 3 times a week. It just made me kick against their control. I wouldn't be be seen dead in a church now. I don't have any beliefs they have and I do the opposite with my children to what they did with me.
Ruth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ruth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
soggyboysmom
--- In [email protected], "Rod Thomas" <flyerrod@d...>
wrote:
around and get drunk? Getting drunk isn't all that much fun UNLESS
you're getting away with something. It interferes with too many things
(coordination for gaming, doing all sorts of physical activities,
being coherent when watching a movie, etc). Having a drink or two
(anywhere) with friends, conversation, food, etc. is very different
than a bunch of people sitting around with the intent of drinking a
lot and being, can't think of another word for it, flat stupid.
My DS is only 7 but he already has seen the difference between when
(several relatives) are drunk and not. He has seen DH have a beer or
two at gatherings and stop at that while others continue on down the
boozy road (I rarely drink - a glass of wine puts me to sleep and I'd
hate to miss out on stuff because I just wanted to curl up and take a
nap). By the time he's a teen, I am hoping that we'll have had many
opportunities to discuss this and more topics (smoking, drugs, sex,
etc) - he already knows he doesn't like the way grandma's house smells
when all the smokers are over there. We're not likely to 'ban' alcohol
but neither are we going to hand him a beer to celebrate his 13th
birthday. Balance in all things
--Deb
wrote:
> I know they will, that is my point also. But the question I wasWhat I read so far (to boil it down) is, why would they want to sit
>asking
> is whether they can sit at home and get drunk?
>
around and get drunk? Getting drunk isn't all that much fun UNLESS
you're getting away with something. It interferes with too many things
(coordination for gaming, doing all sorts of physical activities,
being coherent when watching a movie, etc). Having a drink or two
(anywhere) with friends, conversation, food, etc. is very different
than a bunch of people sitting around with the intent of drinking a
lot and being, can't think of another word for it, flat stupid.
My DS is only 7 but he already has seen the difference between when
(several relatives) are drunk and not. He has seen DH have a beer or
two at gatherings and stop at that while others continue on down the
boozy road (I rarely drink - a glass of wine puts me to sleep and I'd
hate to miss out on stuff because I just wanted to curl up and take a
nap). By the time he's a teen, I am hoping that we'll have had many
opportunities to discuss this and more topics (smoking, drugs, sex,
etc) - he already knows he doesn't like the way grandma's house smells
when all the smokers are over there. We're not likely to 'ban' alcohol
but neither are we going to hand him a beer to celebrate his 13th
birthday. Balance in all things
--Deb
polykow
I usually just lurk since I can't write well enough and still have lots to learn.
Let me add thsi to the conversation:
I was born and raised in Brazil and my parents did allow us to drink very early on. They even gave us wine for luch like every Sunday when they had it. None of us four kids was ever a drinker or fascinated by it. We did it responsably as my parents did. None of us ever went binge drinking or just went out to get drunk. Drinking was normal and social. At this point all of us siblings are still the same way.
I remenber drinking Amaretto, Port Wine and sweet liquor as early as 8 or 9 maybe even before that.
Alex ( who still drinks little and does it to enjoy and not get drunk)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Let me add thsi to the conversation:
I was born and raised in Brazil and my parents did allow us to drink very early on. They even gave us wine for luch like every Sunday when they had it. None of us four kids was ever a drinker or fascinated by it. We did it responsably as my parents did. None of us ever went binge drinking or just went out to get drunk. Drinking was normal and social. At this point all of us siblings are still the same way.
I remenber drinking Amaretto, Port Wine and sweet liquor as early as 8 or 9 maybe even before that.
Alex ( who still drinks little and does it to enjoy and not get drunk)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/23/2005 1:38:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
I know they will, that is my point also. But the question I was asking
is whether they can sit at home and get drunk?
*********************
Kathy, I've read all of your posts and what I'm seeing is a lot of
fear...but you're still here. Interesting.
I have a very-close-to-16 year old son who wants to be a rock star. We talk
about things like drugs, alcohol, and sex a lot. We talk about why people
might want to use or abuse any of those things. We talk about their use without
abuse. We talk about concerns and consequences.
You asked "whether they can sit at home and get drunk?" What I'm saying to
you is that it's the wrong question. Here's an analogy, something I thought
of when I read your post.
I am a Unitarian Universalist. It is a creedless religion with no required
dogma, and UU's get challenged on this a lot. I read this anecdote where
someone was challenging a UU and said, "So you can rape and murder or steal if you
want?" The UU's response was "Is raping and murdering and stealing what YOU
want to do?"
Your question was whether it'd be okay for my kid to sit at home and get
drunk. I can't imagine why he would want to do that. People tend to get drunk
either because they are in a festive situation with others and find it
pleasant, or because they have a problem. People who "sit at home and get drunk"
rarely do it as a hobby.
If Julian wanted, perhaps, to get drunk because he wanted to know what it
felt like, I suppose he'd be safer doing at home with people who loved him. He
has no real desire to do that, partially I've honestly described my own only
experience with being drunk ("It was sort of fun because it felt silly and
uninhibited for a bit, but then I got really sick and it really wasn't worth
it, for me, to try again.") If he sincerely asked for that, I don't know what
my response would be, but I'd think about it.
But again, it's NOT the right question, partly because it's not really
likely to come up.
What I hear in your fear is "Can I really say yes to my children almost all
of the time and still have them turn out to be safe, happy, prepared for
life, not a drain on society, etc. etc.?" "Can I spare the rod, the time-out, the
packaged curriculum, the food restrictions, etc. and still have them be
pleasant, healthy, good people?" Maybe even, "This all sounds wonderful but it
couldn't possibly work. Could it?!?"
I can answer that question with a passionate YES! YES! YES!
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
I know they will, that is my point also. But the question I was asking
is whether they can sit at home and get drunk?
*********************
Kathy, I've read all of your posts and what I'm seeing is a lot of
fear...but you're still here. Interesting.
I have a very-close-to-16 year old son who wants to be a rock star. We talk
about things like drugs, alcohol, and sex a lot. We talk about why people
might want to use or abuse any of those things. We talk about their use without
abuse. We talk about concerns and consequences.
You asked "whether they can sit at home and get drunk?" What I'm saying to
you is that it's the wrong question. Here's an analogy, something I thought
of when I read your post.
I am a Unitarian Universalist. It is a creedless religion with no required
dogma, and UU's get challenged on this a lot. I read this anecdote where
someone was challenging a UU and said, "So you can rape and murder or steal if you
want?" The UU's response was "Is raping and murdering and stealing what YOU
want to do?"
Your question was whether it'd be okay for my kid to sit at home and get
drunk. I can't imagine why he would want to do that. People tend to get drunk
either because they are in a festive situation with others and find it
pleasant, or because they have a problem. People who "sit at home and get drunk"
rarely do it as a hobby.
If Julian wanted, perhaps, to get drunk because he wanted to know what it
felt like, I suppose he'd be safer doing at home with people who loved him. He
has no real desire to do that, partially I've honestly described my own only
experience with being drunk ("It was sort of fun because it felt silly and
uninhibited for a bit, but then I got really sick and it really wasn't worth
it, for me, to try again.") If he sincerely asked for that, I don't know what
my response would be, but I'd think about it.
But again, it's NOT the right question, partly because it's not really
likely to come up.
What I hear in your fear is "Can I really say yes to my children almost all
of the time and still have them turn out to be safe, happy, prepared for
life, not a drain on society, etc. etc.?" "Can I spare the rod, the time-out, the
packaged curriculum, the food restrictions, etc. and still have them be
pleasant, healthy, good people?" Maybe even, "This all sounds wonderful but it
couldn't possibly work. Could it?!?"
I can answer that question with a passionate YES! YES! YES!
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Rod Thomas
>>>>>What I read so far (to boil it down) is, why would they want to sitaround and get drunk? Getting drunk isn't all that much fun UNLESS
you're getting away with something. It interferes with too many things
(coordination for gaming, doing all sorts of physical activities,
being coherent when watching a movie, etc). Having a drink or two
(anywhere) with friends, conversation, food, etc. is very different
than a bunch of people sitting around with the intent of drinking a
lot and being, can't think of another word for it, flat
stupid.>>>>>>>>>>
If they drink, someday they are going to get drunk. Period.
flyerkat
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Rod Thomas <flyerrod@...>
I know they will, that is my point also. But the question I was
asking
is whether they can sit at home and get drunk?
-=-=-=-=-
I think Kathryn hit the nail on the head---why would they want to? I
don't!
About the tv:
If they don't have the *choice* to turn it on or off, they can't make
the decision to turn it off.
We have three tvs. Cameron TiVos "That 70s Show" and will watch "Whose
Line is it Anyway" and music specials when he can. Movies every now and
then. Not much else---he's too busy with other things!
For 18 months---TV was pretty much *ALL* he did---those months after
leaving school. He watched tv, ate, slept, talked on the phone, and
played on the computer. NOTHING ELSE. I'm not joking. I was about to
rip my hair out.
He was healing. Everyone just told me to hold out. Keep offering neat
things (which I did anyway with my younger son) and be willing to take
no for an answer. I can't tell you how hard it was.
But it probably wouldn't have taken nearly as long if I had trusted
these people and not asked him to read to me or draw a picture or
explained that packing the trunk was geometry! (I really did! <G>)
Can you trust us??? Can you trust your kids? They are brilliant,
interesting, passionate, kind people who haven't yet been allowed to be
themselves. With that gift, you can open their worlds----they'll become
more than you can possibly imagine.
I'm dead serious. It happened here. Cameron is absolutely phenomenal!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
October 6-9, 2005
http://liveandlearnconference.org
From: Rod Thomas <flyerrod@...>
I know they will, that is my point also. But the question I was
asking
is whether they can sit at home and get drunk?
-=-=-=-=-
I think Kathryn hit the nail on the head---why would they want to? I
don't!
About the tv:
If they don't have the *choice* to turn it on or off, they can't make
the decision to turn it off.
We have three tvs. Cameron TiVos "That 70s Show" and will watch "Whose
Line is it Anyway" and music specials when he can. Movies every now and
then. Not much else---he's too busy with other things!
For 18 months---TV was pretty much *ALL* he did---those months after
leaving school. He watched tv, ate, slept, talked on the phone, and
played on the computer. NOTHING ELSE. I'm not joking. I was about to
rip my hair out.
He was healing. Everyone just told me to hold out. Keep offering neat
things (which I did anyway with my younger son) and be willing to take
no for an answer. I can't tell you how hard it was.
But it probably wouldn't have taken nearly as long if I had trusted
these people and not asked him to read to me or draw a picture or
explained that packing the trunk was geometry! (I really did! <G>)
Can you trust us??? Can you trust your kids? They are brilliant,
interesting, passionate, kind people who haven't yet been allowed to be
themselves. With that gift, you can open their worlds----they'll become
more than you can possibly imagine.
I'm dead serious. It happened here. Cameron is absolutely phenomenal!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
October 6-9, 2005
http://liveandlearnconference.org
Rod Thomas
What if you are wrong?
Flyerkat (Kathy)
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
kbcdlovejo@...
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 4:27 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] sex and alcohol
-----Original Message-----
From: Rod Thomas <flyerrod@...>
I know they will, that is my point also. But the question I was
asking
is whether they can sit at home and get drunk?
-=-=-=-=-
I think Kathryn hit the nail on the head---why would they want to? I
don't!
About the tv:
If they don't have the *choice* to turn it on or off, they can't make
the decision to turn it off.
We have three tvs. Cameron TiVos "That 70s Show" and will watch "Whose
Line is it Anyway" and music specials when he can. Movies every now and
then. Not much else---he's too busy with other things!
For 18 months---TV was pretty much *ALL* he did---those months after
leaving school. He watched tv, ate, slept, talked on the phone, and
played on the computer. NOTHING ELSE. I'm not joking. I was about to
rip my hair out.
He was healing. Everyone just told me to hold out. Keep offering neat
things (which I did anyway with my younger son) and be willing to take
no for an answer. I can't tell you how hard it was.
But it probably wouldn't have taken nearly as long if I had trusted
these people and not asked him to read to me or draw a picture or
explained that packing the trunk was geometry! (I really did! <G>)
Can you trust us??? Can you trust your kids? They are brilliant,
interesting, passionate, kind people who haven't yet been allowed to be
themselves. With that gift, you can open their worlds----they'll become
more than you can possibly imagine.
I'm dead serious. It happened here. Cameron is absolutely phenomenal!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
October 6-9, 2005
http://liveandlearnconference.org
Yahoo! Groups Links
Flyerkat (Kathy)
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
kbcdlovejo@...
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 4:27 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] sex and alcohol
-----Original Message-----
From: Rod Thomas <flyerrod@...>
I know they will, that is my point also. But the question I was
asking
is whether they can sit at home and get drunk?
-=-=-=-=-
I think Kathryn hit the nail on the head---why would they want to? I
don't!
About the tv:
If they don't have the *choice* to turn it on or off, they can't make
the decision to turn it off.
We have three tvs. Cameron TiVos "That 70s Show" and will watch "Whose
Line is it Anyway" and music specials when he can. Movies every now and
then. Not much else---he's too busy with other things!
For 18 months---TV was pretty much *ALL* he did---those months after
leaving school. He watched tv, ate, slept, talked on the phone, and
played on the computer. NOTHING ELSE. I'm not joking. I was about to
rip my hair out.
He was healing. Everyone just told me to hold out. Keep offering neat
things (which I did anyway with my younger son) and be willing to take
no for an answer. I can't tell you how hard it was.
But it probably wouldn't have taken nearly as long if I had trusted
these people and not asked him to read to me or draw a picture or
explained that packing the trunk was geometry! (I really did! <G>)
Can you trust us??? Can you trust your kids? They are brilliant,
interesting, passionate, kind people who haven't yet been allowed to be
themselves. With that gift, you can open their worlds----they'll become
more than you can possibly imagine.
I'm dead serious. It happened here. Cameron is absolutely phenomenal!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
October 6-9, 2005
http://liveandlearnconference.org
Yahoo! Groups Links
soggyboysmom
--- In [email protected], "Rod Thomas" <flyerrod@d...>
wrote:
with dinner occasionally or a beer at a ballgame that someday they
*are going to get drunk. Period* Why? Seriously. It's akin to saying
that because someone eats a candy bar on occasion and enjoys it that
someday they will gorge on it until they become ill.
Maybe someone else can be more eloquent on this than I am
--Deb
wrote:
>Why? I don't see the correlation that if they enjoy a glass of wine
> If they drink, someday they are going to get drunk. Period.
> flyerkat
with dinner occasionally or a beer at a ballgame that someday they
*are going to get drunk. Period* Why? Seriously. It's akin to saying
that because someone eats a candy bar on occasion and enjoys it that
someday they will gorge on it until they become ill.
Maybe someone else can be more eloquent on this than I am
--Deb
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Rod Thomas <flyerrod@...>
If they drink, someday they are going to get drunk. Period.
flyerkat
-=-=-=-
Is *everything* so black and white with you?
~Kelly
From: Rod Thomas <flyerrod@...>
If they drink, someday they are going to get drunk. Period.
flyerkat
-=-=-=-
Is *everything* so black and white with you?
~Kelly
coolcrew
If they drink, someday they are going to get drunk. Period.
*****************
I don' t see why tbh. This is a bit like saying if they have sex someday they will sleep with half the town.
Ruth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
*****************
I don' t see why tbh. This is a bit like saying if they have sex someday they will sleep with half the town.
Ruth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dana Matt
> If they drink, someday they are going to get drunk.I have missed this (and many) conversations due to a
> Period.
> flyerkat
>
broken computer this week...but I would like to
question why it's such a big deal if your kids get
drunk? We recently had a home brew fest at my
brother's house--my parents flew in from Atlanta with
their beers, my brother made his, my husband made his,
as well as about 15 of my brother's friends. There
was also a house full of fun and merriment, and
gourmet food, and chatting, and picture taking, etc
etc etc. One of my brother's friends thoughtfully
brought his pocket breathalaizer, and we all tested
ourselves, and most of us were found to be "drunk".
Does this mean we were morally deranged, dangerous,
unthinking, or the like? No, just that we tasted a
lot of beer. There were designated drivers, and many
slept over. My children were there and were certainly
offered beer as well as food, but they don't enjoy the
taste of but a few beers so they declined. But I
would certainly not have found it a problem if they
had tried too many tasters and had found themselves
"drunk"...
Dana
Guadalupe's Coffee Roaster
100% Organic Fair Trade Coffee
Roasted to Perfection Daily
http://www.guadalupescoffee.com
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Rod Thomas <flyerrod@...>
What if you are wrong?
Flyerkat (Kathy)
-=-=-=-=-
Then send your kids to school.
I'm willing to take this chance with my kids because I know deep down
that following one's passions is *right*.
I can't see *any* redeeming qualities in school or school-at-home.
My relationship with my kids is my number one priority. Hands down.
If I knew today were my last day with my child, would I send him to
school? Many people DO---children with cancers---they send those poor
kids to school. Hard to fathom. I'd spend my child's last months or
weeks or days pursuing his passions. So why would I change that if I
knew he'd live to be 95? Seriously? What's MOST important to you?
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
October 6-9, 2005
http://liveandlearnconference.org
From: Rod Thomas <flyerrod@...>
What if you are wrong?
Flyerkat (Kathy)
-=-=-=-=-
Then send your kids to school.
I'm willing to take this chance with my kids because I know deep down
that following one's passions is *right*.
I can't see *any* redeeming qualities in school or school-at-home.
My relationship with my kids is my number one priority. Hands down.
If I knew today were my last day with my child, would I send him to
school? Many people DO---children with cancers---they send those poor
kids to school. Hard to fathom. I'd spend my child's last months or
weeks or days pursuing his passions. So why would I change that if I
knew he'd live to be 95? Seriously? What's MOST important to you?
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
October 6-9, 2005
http://liveandlearnconference.org
[email protected]
<<If they drink, someday they are going to get drunk. Period>>
You may be right and to be honest, so what? Lots of people occassionally over-do it.
Why don't you just sit around and get drunk all day? You legally can. Why don't you run around and have sex with anybody and everybody? You legally can. Nobody is stopping you from doing these things. You can do them all day, everyday. But instead you are on an email list trying to figure out what is a good path for your family. You have a vision, a quest. Why would you choose a positive path rather than a dead-end one? When you can answer that for yourself, you will have the answer for your kids as well.
Julie S.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You may be right and to be honest, so what? Lots of people occassionally over-do it.
Why don't you just sit around and get drunk all day? You legally can. Why don't you run around and have sex with anybody and everybody? You legally can. Nobody is stopping you from doing these things. You can do them all day, everyday. But instead you are on an email list trying to figure out what is a good path for your family. You have a vision, a quest. Why would you choose a positive path rather than a dead-end one? When you can answer that for yourself, you will have the answer for your kids as well.
Julie S.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sylvia Toyama
If they drink, someday they are going to get drunk. Period.
flyerkat
******
And you know that absolutely for sure -- that anyone who ever drinks will get drunk. Period.
Okay, so big deal, they may get drunk someday. When my child knows I won't punish him, shame him or think less of him for making the choice to drink (whether or not getting drunk was an actual choice) he's much safer than when he has to sneak around behind my back. The same is true for sex and other potentially dangerous behaviors.
Sylvia
Mom to Will (20) Andy (9) and Dan (4.5)
The opposite of courage in our society is not cowardice, it is conformity -- Rollo May
---------------------------------
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
flyerkat
******
And you know that absolutely for sure -- that anyone who ever drinks will get drunk. Period.
Okay, so big deal, they may get drunk someday. When my child knows I won't punish him, shame him or think less of him for making the choice to drink (whether or not getting drunk was an actual choice) he's much safer than when he has to sneak around behind my back. The same is true for sex and other potentially dangerous behaviors.
Sylvia
Mom to Will (20) Andy (9) and Dan (4.5)
The opposite of courage in our society is not cowardice, it is conformity -- Rollo May
---------------------------------
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sylvia Toyama
What if you are wrong?
Flyerkat (Kathy)
*****
It's equally possible you could be wrong. Heck, we could all be wrong about any one of a thousand things every day. Should we spend the rest of our lives safely locked in the house, never participating in anything that could result in injury?
Sylvia
Mom to Will (20) Andy (9) and Dan (4.5)
The opposite of courage in our society is not cowardice, it is conformity -- Rollo May
---------------------------------
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Flyerkat (Kathy)
*****
It's equally possible you could be wrong. Heck, we could all be wrong about any one of a thousand things every day. Should we spend the rest of our lives safely locked in the house, never participating in anything that could result in injury?
Sylvia
Mom to Will (20) Andy (9) and Dan (4.5)
The opposite of courage in our society is not cowardice, it is conformity -- Rollo May
---------------------------------
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kiersten Pasciak
--- In [email protected], kbcdlovejo@a... wrote:
My relationship with my kids is my number one priority. Hands down.
If I knew today were my last day with my child, would I send him to
school? Many people DO---children with cancers---they send those
poor kids to school. Hard to fathom. I'd spend my child's last
months or weeks or days pursuing his passions. So why would I change
that if I knew he'd live to be 95? Seriously? What's MOST important
to you?
~Kelly
-------------------------------------
Kelly,
Thank you so much for putting it this way!
This exact notion is what has totally sold my husband and me on
unschooling.
What a waste of time and energy to spend your life doing anything
more than what you must of things you do not enjoy.
The world is just to full of opportunities for that.
Kiersten
Michelle
I do not htink it is ok to "allow them to drink in your home. I see it as you are saying it is OK to break the law. It is NOT ok to do drugs. What laws are ok to break? You can drink even though it is against the law. Is it OK to shop lift? Breaking the law is not ok
Mihcelle
kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: Rod Thomas <flyerrod@...>
If they drink, someday they are going to get drunk. Period.
flyerkat
-=-=-=-
Is *everything* so black and white with you?
~Kelly
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Mihcelle
kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: Rod Thomas <flyerrod@...>
If they drink, someday they are going to get drunk. Period.
flyerkat
-=-=-=-
Is *everything* so black and white with you?
~Kelly
---------------------------------
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April
I drink occasionally. I have never been drunk. Ever. Most I've ever been is
a little tipsy. Never felt much need to get drunk.
~April
Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-16, Karl-14, & Ben-9.
*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
<http://www.reachhomeschool.com> www.reachhomeschool.com
* Michigan Unschoolers
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
*Check out Chuck's art! <http://www.artkunst23.com/>
http://www.artkunst23.com
*Michigan Youth Theater...Acting On Our Dreams...
<http://www.michiganyouththeater.com/> http://www.michiganyouththeater.com
"Know where to find the information and how to use it - That's the secret of
success."
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Rod Thomas
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 4:20 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] Re: sex and alcohol
you're getting away with something. It interferes with too many things
(coordination for gaming, doing all sorts of physical activities,
being coherent when watching a movie, etc). Having a drink or two
(anywhere) with friends, conversation, food, etc. is very different
than a bunch of people sitting around with the intent of drinking a
lot and being, can't think of another word for it, flat
stupid.>>>>>>>>>>
If they drink, someday they are going to get drunk. Period.
flyerkat
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a little tipsy. Never felt much need to get drunk.
~April
Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-16, Karl-14, & Ben-9.
*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
<http://www.reachhomeschool.com> www.reachhomeschool.com
* Michigan Unschoolers
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
*Check out Chuck's art! <http://www.artkunst23.com/>
http://www.artkunst23.com
*Michigan Youth Theater...Acting On Our Dreams...
<http://www.michiganyouththeater.com/> http://www.michiganyouththeater.com
"Know where to find the information and how to use it - That's the secret of
success."
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Rod Thomas
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 4:20 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [unschoolingbasics] Re: sex and alcohol
>>>>>What I read so far (to boil it down) is, why would they want to sitaround and get drunk? Getting drunk isn't all that much fun UNLESS
you're getting away with something. It interferes with too many things
(coordination for gaming, doing all sorts of physical activities,
being coherent when watching a movie, etc). Having a drink or two
(anywhere) with friends, conversation, food, etc. is very different
than a bunch of people sitting around with the intent of drinking a
lot and being, can't think of another word for it, flat
stupid.>>>>>>>>>>
If they drink, someday they are going to get drunk. Period.
flyerkat
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coolcrew
Hi April
I actually have been drunk. I didn't like it. It was an experience - I think most teens go through it and I think unless they have other problems decide it is not that cool to stagger about, feel sick/be sick, have a raging headache the next day and be told they did stupid things whilst under the influence. None of my children are interested in drink despite the fact we always have beer in the house.
Ruth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I actually have been drunk. I didn't like it. It was an experience - I think most teens go through it and I think unless they have other problems decide it is not that cool to stagger about, feel sick/be sick, have a raging headache the next day and be told they did stupid things whilst under the influence. None of my children are interested in drink despite the fact we always have beer in the house.
Ruth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
April
Both of my girls have been drunk once each. Neither cares to ever repeat it.
I knew about both times, they don't keep many secrets from me.
I've had plenty of opportunity, just never wanted to. On the other hand,
both the girls have developed a taste for very good..very expensive beer.
My husband likes that kind of thing. It's hard to get drunk when your beer
costs $6-8 each and you need to savor it. :-)
~April
Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-16, Karl-14, & Ben-9.
*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
<http://www.reachhomeschool.com> www.reachhomeschool.com
* Michigan Unschoolers
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
*Check out Chuck's art! <http://www.artkunst23.com/>
http://www.artkunst23.com
*Michigan Youth Theater...Acting On Our Dreams...
<http://www.michiganyouththeater.com/> http://www.michiganyouththeater.com
"Know where to find the information and how to use it - That's the secret of
success."
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of coolcrew
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 3:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: sex and alcohol
Hi April
I actually have been drunk. I didn't like it. It was an experience - I
think most teens go through it and I think unless they have other problems
decide it is not that cool to stagger about, feel sick/be sick, have a
raging headache the next day and be told they did stupid things whilst under
the influence. None of my children are interested in drink despite the fact
we always have beer in the house.
Ruth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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I knew about both times, they don't keep many secrets from me.
I've had plenty of opportunity, just never wanted to. On the other hand,
both the girls have developed a taste for very good..very expensive beer.
My husband likes that kind of thing. It's hard to get drunk when your beer
costs $6-8 each and you need to savor it. :-)
~April
Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-16, Karl-14, & Ben-9.
*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
<http://www.reachhomeschool.com> www.reachhomeschool.com
* Michigan Unschoolers
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
*Check out Chuck's art! <http://www.artkunst23.com/>
http://www.artkunst23.com
*Michigan Youth Theater...Acting On Our Dreams...
<http://www.michiganyouththeater.com/> http://www.michiganyouththeater.com
"Know where to find the information and how to use it - That's the secret of
success."
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
_____
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of coolcrew
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 3:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: sex and alcohol
Hi April
I actually have been drunk. I didn't like it. It was an experience - I
think most teens go through it and I think unless they have other problems
decide it is not that cool to stagger about, feel sick/be sick, have a
raging headache the next day and be told they did stupid things whilst under
the influence. None of my children are interested in drink despite the fact
we always have beer in the house.
Ruth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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soggyboysmom
--- In [email protected], "Rod Thomas" <flyerrod@d...>
wrote:
sending our kids to school, for not having set bedtimes, for not
having required chores, for not holding the reins tightly on our kids
in every aspect of their lives. Then I look around and see unhappy
parents and unhappy kids living disconnected lives who are doing
everything 'right'. And I look around at the unschoolers I've met
personally (not to mention all the lovely folks online) and see the
connected lives and positive outlooks. Gee, to paraphrase an old
song "if unschooling is wrong, I don't wanna be right"
--Deb
wrote:
> What if you are wrong?According to much of society, we're already totally "wrong" for not
> Flyerkat (Kathy)
>
sending our kids to school, for not having set bedtimes, for not
having required chores, for not holding the reins tightly on our kids
in every aspect of their lives. Then I look around and see unhappy
parents and unhappy kids living disconnected lives who are doing
everything 'right'. And I look around at the unschoolers I've met
personally (not to mention all the lovely folks online) and see the
connected lives and positive outlooks. Gee, to paraphrase an old
song "if unschooling is wrong, I don't wanna be right"
--Deb
soggyboysmom
> It's hard to get drunk when your beerLOL! My DH likes the really good expensive beers as well. So,
> costs $6-8 each and you need to savor it. :-)
>
generally he'll get ONE if we go out to dinner and maybe have 2 when
we go to SIL's for a cookout - 2 over the course of 6 or 8 hours that
is (BIL also likes good beers).
--Deb
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Michelle <pmteet@...>
I do not htink it is ok to "allow them to drink in your home. I see
it as you
are saying it is OK to break the law. It is NOT ok to do drugs. What
laws are
ok to break? You can drink even though it is against the law. Is it OK
to shop
lift? Breaking the law is not ok
-=-=-=-=-
I have a problem with a lot of laws. But that's another issue in and of
itself! <g> I'm not wild about laws that have to do with *me* and no
one else. I don't need protection from myself! Neither do my children.
Too much government!!!
In SC it is only illegal for a minor (under 21) to *purchase* alcohol.
Nothing about consumption. I think it's smart to know your state laws!
I have no problem allowing my children to drink in my home, and I've
poured my son a glass of wine when at a restaurant. We're enophiles
here, so we encourage a basic knowledge of wines. And none of us is a
wino! <g>
Open, honest communication. Know your laws. Be sure your children do
too. But you can lead their lives for them!
~Kelly
From: Michelle <pmteet@...>
I do not htink it is ok to "allow them to drink in your home. I see
it as you
are saying it is OK to break the law. It is NOT ok to do drugs. What
laws are
ok to break? You can drink even though it is against the law. Is it OK
to shop
lift? Breaking the law is not ok
-=-=-=-=-
I have a problem with a lot of laws. But that's another issue in and of
itself! <g> I'm not wild about laws that have to do with *me* and no
one else. I don't need protection from myself! Neither do my children.
Too much government!!!
In SC it is only illegal for a minor (under 21) to *purchase* alcohol.
Nothing about consumption. I think it's smart to know your state laws!
I have no problem allowing my children to drink in my home, and I've
poured my son a glass of wine when at a restaurant. We're enophiles
here, so we encourage a basic knowledge of wines. And none of us is a
wino! <g>
Open, honest communication. Know your laws. Be sure your children do
too. But you can lead their lives for them!
~Kelly
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: kbcdlovejo@...
Open, honest communication. Know your laws. Be sure your children do
too. But you can lead their lives for them!
-=-=-
Oohoohooh! Typo!
You CANNOT lead their lives for them!
~Kelly
From: kbcdlovejo@...
Open, honest communication. Know your laws. Be sure your children do
too. But you can lead their lives for them!
-=-=-
Oohoohooh! Typo!
You CANNOT lead their lives for them!
~Kelly
Angela S.
Ever go faster than the posted speed? Roll through a stop sign? Would you
send your kids to school if homeschooling became illegal again?
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
Is it OK to shop lift? Breaking the law is
send your kids to school if homeschooling became illegal again?
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
Is it OK to shop lift? Breaking the law is
> not ok
>
> Mihcelle
Daniel MacIntyre
In most (but not all) states, parents can legally provide their
underage children with alcoholic beverages in their homes.
In most European countries, what we would consider underage children
are commonly served alcoholic drinks - e.g. wine in France and Italy,
beer in Germany. America is comparatively prudish in this regard
compared to Europe.
underage children with alcoholic beverages in their homes.
In most European countries, what we would consider underage children
are commonly served alcoholic drinks - e.g. wine in France and Italy,
beer in Germany. America is comparatively prudish in this regard
compared to Europe.
On 8/25/05, Angela S. <game-enthusiast@...> wrote:
>
> Ever go faster than the posted speed? Roll through a stop sign? Would you
> send your kids to school if homeschooling became illegal again?
>
> Angela
> game-enthusiast@...
>
> Is it OK to shop lift? Breaking the law is
> > not ok
> >
> > Mihcelle
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Daniel
(Amy is doing a half marathon for Team in Training
Anyone who wants to help can do so by going to:
http://www.active.com/donate/fundraise/tntgmoAMacint )
Ruth G
Would you
No. I have thought about this cos I live in the UK and our country is under some pressure to conform to Europe where it is illegal in Germany to HS and the French have to follow a set curriculum. I woud fight it long and hard. Both any ban or the curriculum idea if tht comes in first. Moves are already a foot to regulate us. I spent considerable time battling with the authorities over unschooling - both mine and others as I am a contact for our county -even tho our HS laws are very lenient as they are now.
Ruth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> send your kids to school if homeschooling became illegal again?>**********************
No. I have thought about this cos I live in the UK and our country is under some pressure to conform to Europe where it is illegal in Germany to HS and the French have to follow a set curriculum. I woud fight it long and hard. Both any ban or the curriculum idea if tht comes in first. Moves are already a foot to regulate us. I spent considerable time battling with the authorities over unschooling - both mine and others as I am a contact for our county -even tho our HS laws are very lenient as they are now.
Ruth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]