RE: limits
Marcia Coakley
It seems to me that Ren was on the mark about we as the parents being clear
about where we are with our own comfort level and where our strong feelings
about things lie. I know that it has always been important for me to get
straight with myself what really matters to me, and that I communicate it
clearly, first to my husband and since they joined us, to our kids. It is
an important for our family to share our beliefs with one another and to
respect one another.
The word that has always mattered to me, and that I share with my children,
is consideration. It is the right thing to do in relationships with
everyone in your life...being considerate of another persons' feelings is
the best way to learn compassion; to gain trust and learn and understand
empathy. These are things that build strong, loving relationships. My
husband and I believe in emphasizing with our children the value of being
considerate of "the other person's" feelings as the way to have things go
the way we might want. Others are much more likely to give us what we
want/help us/be considerate of us...if they feel considered!
Even little children can begin to understand why we do better to take care
of things that are getting damaged and broken. It means "thinking of the
other person and what they care about". I don't remember what age "the
experts" say kids generally learn empathy...but if it is part of your family
culture to tune into this with one another...it's easier to show how it
relates everywhere in life.
Respecting our children and honoring their journey....that's what
unschooling has come to mean to me.
Marcia C.
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about where we are with our own comfort level and where our strong feelings
about things lie. I know that it has always been important for me to get
straight with myself what really matters to me, and that I communicate it
clearly, first to my husband and since they joined us, to our kids. It is
an important for our family to share our beliefs with one another and to
respect one another.
The word that has always mattered to me, and that I share with my children,
is consideration. It is the right thing to do in relationships with
everyone in your life...being considerate of another persons' feelings is
the best way to learn compassion; to gain trust and learn and understand
empathy. These are things that build strong, loving relationships. My
husband and I believe in emphasizing with our children the value of being
considerate of "the other person's" feelings as the way to have things go
the way we might want. Others are much more likely to give us what we
want/help us/be considerate of us...if they feel considered!
Even little children can begin to understand why we do better to take care
of things that are getting damaged and broken. It means "thinking of the
other person and what they care about". I don't remember what age "the
experts" say kids generally learn empathy...but if it is part of your family
culture to tune into this with one another...it's easier to show how it
relates everywhere in life.
Respecting our children and honoring their journey....that's what
unschooling has come to mean to me.
Marcia C.
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Cameron Parham
We see a psychologist who has been a real support to us through some hard things. He has a sweet little quote on the wall of his office by a 4yo boy: "You know when someone loves you because your name is safe in their mouth." That's the kind of safe I was talking about on this list. Of course I didn't think anyone would "come to my door and beat me up." I feel surprised that you'd say what you said, or act unaware that physical safety is not the only kind of safety...I had felt that this was a safe place to ask these questions, a place where the basic assumption would be that we are all striving toward a worthwhile goal and doing our best. I am ready to drop it now.
----- Original Message ----
From: Deb Lewis <d.lewis@...>
To: unschoolingbasics <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 6:53:05 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: thank you thank you Ren
***And 'use words' is what we've always said in our home, because it
just seems to be a good
reminder.***
Dylan wasn't a hitter and we were lucky that most of his friends in those
days were gentle, pacifist kids too. <g> One little boy though, was from a
big family and was knocked around by his older brother. If he'd had a
scuffle with his brother before he came to our house he'd be rough with
Dylan and rough with toys and cats.
I didn't say "use word" because he thought he had used words to solve his
problem when he first said "give me that or I'll hit you," or just "NO!" or
"MINE."
What I said if he seemed to be getting worked up was a
specific-to- the-moment, "Don't hit him! I'll help you." I tried to keep
the cats out of his way but if I hadn't done that I would remind him, "Don't
hit the cat, I'll move her."
I didn't say "People shouldn't hit," because his mom spanked and his
siblings smacked each other so his experience was that people DO hit.
Shouldn't schmoodent. When you're five, and have just been whacked in the
knee with a baseball bat, philosophy means nothing at all.
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
----- Original Message ----
From: Deb Lewis <d.lewis@...>
To: unschoolingbasics <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 6:53:05 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: thank you thank you Ren
***And 'use words' is what we've always said in our home, because it
just seems to be a good
reminder.***
Dylan wasn't a hitter and we were lucky that most of his friends in those
days were gentle, pacifist kids too. <g> One little boy though, was from a
big family and was knocked around by his older brother. If he'd had a
scuffle with his brother before he came to our house he'd be rough with
Dylan and rough with toys and cats.
I didn't say "use word" because he thought he had used words to solve his
problem when he first said "give me that or I'll hit you," or just "NO!" or
"MINE."
What I said if he seemed to be getting worked up was a
specific-to- the-moment, "Don't hit him! I'll help you." I tried to keep
the cats out of his way but if I hadn't done that I would remind him, "Don't
hit the cat, I'll move her."
I didn't say "People shouldn't hit," because his mom spanked and his
siblings smacked each other so his experience was that people DO hit.
Shouldn't schmoodent. When you're five, and have just been whacked in the
knee with a baseball bat, philosophy means nothing at all.
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb Lewis
***I feel surprised that you'd say what you said, or act unaware that
physical safety is not the only kind of
safety...***
And I'm surprised at the drama. This is a list full of strangers, a public
forum with a specific purpose - to discuss ideas and principles and
practices that will help families unschool. It's not a psychiatrists
office. No one writing here is four years old. It's too much to expect a
list to meet your personal needs for emotional safety. And barring actual
threats, strangers on an email list can't *make* you feel unsafe.
So please don't try to manipulate people here with sweet quotes from four
year old psychiatric patients.
This is a good and active list with dedicated list owners. Many members
have teen aged kids who've been unschooling a long time. There are lots of
nice folks here with kind and helpful natures and happy kids.
***I had felt that this was a safe place to ask these questions, ***
This is definitely a place to ask questions about unschooling and a place
where you'll get answers that will help unschooling work beautifully in your
life.
***a place where the basic assumption would be that we are all striving
toward a worthwhile
goal and doing our best.***
The assumption is that people who join the list are working toward
unschooling. Not just any goal that seems worthwhile but the goal of
unschooling. If there's some other assumption it might ought to be that
people offering unschooling advice are doing so out of a desire to help
others get to a joyful happy life with their kids.
Limiting children is not something that helps unschooling. Unschoolers are
the least likely people to help you feel ok about a decision to place limits
on your kid. We can help you think about why you feel the need to control
someone else's choices, or help you find ways to feel better about your
son's choices or give you ideas to make his world really interesting so that
his TV choices are only one small part of his big life, but if you want
approval for limiting him, an unschooling list probably won't help you.
*** I am ready to drop it now.***
You certainly don't have to respond to any post, but please understand ideas
take on a life of their own once they're out. They don't automatically go
away just because one person's ready to drop it.
Deb Lewis
physical safety is not the only kind of
safety...***
And I'm surprised at the drama. This is a list full of strangers, a public
forum with a specific purpose - to discuss ideas and principles and
practices that will help families unschool. It's not a psychiatrists
office. No one writing here is four years old. It's too much to expect a
list to meet your personal needs for emotional safety. And barring actual
threats, strangers on an email list can't *make* you feel unsafe.
So please don't try to manipulate people here with sweet quotes from four
year old psychiatric patients.
This is a good and active list with dedicated list owners. Many members
have teen aged kids who've been unschooling a long time. There are lots of
nice folks here with kind and helpful natures and happy kids.
***I had felt that this was a safe place to ask these questions, ***
This is definitely a place to ask questions about unschooling and a place
where you'll get answers that will help unschooling work beautifully in your
life.
***a place where the basic assumption would be that we are all striving
toward a worthwhile
goal and doing our best.***
The assumption is that people who join the list are working toward
unschooling. Not just any goal that seems worthwhile but the goal of
unschooling. If there's some other assumption it might ought to be that
people offering unschooling advice are doing so out of a desire to help
others get to a joyful happy life with their kids.
Limiting children is not something that helps unschooling. Unschoolers are
the least likely people to help you feel ok about a decision to place limits
on your kid. We can help you think about why you feel the need to control
someone else's choices, or help you find ways to feel better about your
son's choices or give you ideas to make his world really interesting so that
his TV choices are only one small part of his big life, but if you want
approval for limiting him, an unschooling list probably won't help you.
*** I am ready to drop it now.***
You certainly don't have to respond to any post, but please understand ideas
take on a life of their own once they're out. They don't automatically go
away just because one person's ready to drop it.
Deb Lewis
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: acsp2205@...
"You know when someone loves you because your name is safe in their
mouth."
-=-=-=-=-
There is NO safer "name in my mouth" than *Cameron*! <bwg>
~Kelly, mom to Cameron, now 19
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
From: acsp2205@...
"You know when someone loves you because your name is safe in their
mouth."
-=-=-=-=-
There is NO safer "name in my mouth" than *Cameron*! <bwg>
~Kelly, mom to Cameron, now 19
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.