vermontones

I 've posted several times and have spoken often of my son
Keegan who is 5, but for those of you who haven't heard of him he is
typical highly spirited child. He, in addition, is also sensitive to
touch meaning he doesn't like to be touched. He can take a little
touching by me, but not by outsiders. The other day we were talking
to our neighbors and Keegan was in the back of the truck with the
rear window open. Now, there is a windshield wiper which he had
access to and was playing with. It didn't bother me, but my neighbor
felt the need to tell him that he shouldn't that because it might
break. When he started to speak to Keegan, Keegan ducked away and
when he did this the neighbor held him by the arm and didn't let go.
Before I could say anything Keegan stood up and blew the biggest
raspberry right in his face. The neighbor was so offended, and
probably more so when I didn't make Keegan apologize or even make a
big deal out of it. I felt and still feel that Keegan had the right
to defend himself, I mean think about Keegans point of view. Here's
this guy who grabs him and demands for him to listen and the feeling
of his hand around his wrist probably felt like daggers. He aslo had
a similar reaction to his martial arts teacher. He spit and even
atempted to bite him because he grabbed and started dragging Keegan
to the middle of the floor when Keegan didn't want to participate in
a huddle. Can you imagine a sensitive to touch kid participating in
a huddle?
Am I doing the right thing? Later when all was calm I asked him
how he felt about both situations and he expressed that he didn't
like to be touched like that. We just talked about how next time he
could try to tell them first that he doesn't like to be touched or he
could give me a look that would tell me he wants my help with it, but
I didn't tell him not to spit in people's faces.
Just curiose about opinions you might have on the subject. Maybe
I should have been more active and said take your hands off him, but
it all happened so quickly.

AnnMarie

dail

Things do happen quickly

Yes, I do feel Keegan was right in defending himself when a neighbor grabs him. As well meaning as the neighbor may have been that was stepping over the line. It was not his business . Sensitive to touch or not, NO one likes to be grabbed or reprimanded. No one.

The martial arts instructor should know more creative ways to get a kid to join /or not than grabbing and pulling. That is his job. Five is very young. Even if he was not in the circle he can hear what is being said and choose to join when ready.

However, Keegan will need to learn not to use biting and spitting as a defense. He is still too young to know what else to do, but needs to learn. I

The reason I say this about spitting is because in " this day and age of AIDS" , people will use this against him. It is ridicules for a natural kid reaction of spitting to be considered an assault but it is now. My ds had to have an Aids test taken when he spit at an abusive teacher in ps

Dail

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kelly Lenhart

> Just curiose about opinions you might have on the subject. Maybe
>I should have been more active and said take your hands off him, but
>it all happened so quickly.
>AnnMarie

This is really the only thing I can think of.

Well, also taking the time to explain to the agressor just what it was THEY
did wrong. You can say something like, "Oh dear, are you ok? My son feels
very threatened in these situations and was only defending himself. I hope
that you are ok, but you have to understand that he was very scared."

Don't make a big deal, be matter of fact and don't back down from defending
your son's actions.

If someone did that to an adult, they might be up on assult charges, but
it's just assumed we can manhandle kids.

Kelly

Valerie

Now, there is a windshield wiper which he had access to and was
playing with. It didn't bother me, but my neighbor felt the need to
tell him that he shouldn't that because it might break. When he
started to speak to Keegan, Keegan ducked away and when he did this
the neighbor held him by the arm and didn't let go. Before I could
say anything Keegan stood up and blew the biggest raspberry right in
his face.

*****GO KEEGAN!!!!

The neighbor was so offended, and probably more so when I didn't
make Keegan apologize or even make a big deal out of it.

*****The neighbor is the one that needs to apologize to Keegan.
After you've calmed down (I'm ready to blow my own raspberry at the
neighbor) if you want to avoid something like that happening again,
you could tell the neighbor how offended you and Keegan were by the
grabbing. Whether or not Keegan is sensitive to touch, what the
neighbor did is unacceptable and he shouldn't think what he did was
ok.

> Am I doing the right thing?

*****Yes! You're putting Keegan's feelings and opinion above the
neighbor's (the sorry (*&)@#*&*#%&.) I have a cousin who always felt
the need to teach Laurie a lesson. I kept myself between the two of
them and told Laurie that if my cousin offended her in any way she
had my support to react any way she chose.

love, Valerie

G&M Contracting Inc., Kenneth Gillilan

Valerie,
See now that was exactly my thinking. I was offended at the neighbor
and wished that I was quicker with a response. I'm one of those people,
unfortunately, that thinks about the things I should have said 10 minutes
after I should have said them.
Why do people feel the need to touch him even if they know his touch
issues? I hate that. If I tell them about it in advance it makes the
situation that much worse. Power issues for the adult I guess. It
obviously irks me and that's why I thought " there you get what you deserve,
a big old fat raspberry"

AnnMarie
-----Original Message-----
From: Valerie [mailto:valerie@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 11:56 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: DON'T TOUCH ME!


Now, there is a windshield wiper which he had access to and was
playing with. It didn't bother me, but my neighbor felt the need to
tell him that he shouldn't that because it might break. When he
started to speak to Keegan, Keegan ducked away and when he did this
the neighbor held him by the arm and didn't let go. Before I could
say anything Keegan stood up and blew the biggest raspberry right in
his face.

*****GO KEEGAN!!!!

The neighbor was so offended, and probably more so when I didn't
make Keegan apologize or even make a big deal out of it.

*****The neighbor is the one that needs to apologize to Keegan.
After you've calmed down (I'm ready to blow my own raspberry at the
neighbor) if you want to avoid something like that happening again,
you could tell the neighbor how offended you and Keegan were by the
grabbing. Whether or not Keegan is sensitive to touch, what the
neighbor did is unacceptable and he shouldn't think what he did was
ok.

> Am I doing the right thing?

*****Yes! You're putting Keegan's feelings and opinion above the
neighbor's (the sorry (*&)@#*&*#%&.) I have a cousin who always felt
the need to teach Laurie a lesson. I kept myself between the two of
them and told Laurie that if my cousin offended her in any way she
had my support to react any way she chose.

love, Valerie


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

G&M Contracting Inc., Kenneth Gillilan

Dail,
What? It was my understanding that you can't get aids from saliva.
anyway, I understand your point and didn't condone the spitting. I just
couldn't bring myself at the time to reprimand him because these people know
about his touching issues. Sometimes I think they tend to be more physical
with him when they know of his touch issues. Like they think they can
change him.

AnnMarie
-----Original Message-----
From: dail [mailto:dailrow@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 11:36 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] DON'T TOUCH ME!


Things do happen quickly

Yes, I do feel Keegan was right in defending himself when a neighbor grabs
him. As well meaning as the neighbor may have been that was stepping over
the line. It was not his business . Sensitive to touch or not, NO one
likes to be grabbed or reprimanded. No one.

The martial arts instructor should know more creative ways to get a kid to
join /or not than grabbing and pulling. That is his job. Five is very
young. Even if he was not in the circle he can hear what is being said and
choose to join when ready.

However, Keegan will need to learn not to use biting and spitting as a
defense. He is still too young to know what else to do, but needs to learn.
I

The reason I say this about spitting is because in " this day and age of
AIDS" , people will use this against him. It is ridicules for a natural kid
reaction of spitting to be considered an assault but it is now. My ds had
to have an Aids test taken when he spit at an abusive teacher in ps

Dail

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

G&M Contracting Inc., Kenneth Gillilan

Kelly,
I didn't state that the two examples I gave of people manhandling my son
were from people who I have explained on more than one occasion what the
situation is. It's like they don't believe me or like I said in another
post it's some king of power trip there on to try to change him. Like; He
won't dare do that to me...

AnnMarie
-----Original Message-----
From: Kelly Lenhart [mailto:mina@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 11:36 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] DON'T TOUCH ME!


> Just curiose about opinions you might have on the subject. Maybe
>I should have been more active and said take your hands off him, but
>it all happened so quickly.
>AnnMarie

This is really the only thing I can think of.

Well, also taking the time to explain to the agressor just what it was
THEY
did wrong. You can say something like, "Oh dear, are you ok? My son
feels
very threatened in these situations and was only defending himself. I
hope
that you are ok, but you have to understand that he was very scared."

Don't make a big deal, be matter of fact and don't back down from
defending
your son's actions.

If someone did that to an adult, they might be up on assult charges, but
it's just assumed we can manhandle kids.

Kelly



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Alyce

--- In [email protected], "G&M Contracting Inc.,
Kenneth Gillilan" <gmcontractinginc@v...> wrote:


I'd like to know where the neighbor gets off thinking he has
anything to say about your child touching your wiper. It would fall
to you to tell him to stop if you wanted him to stop. I'd think the
neighbor should apologize to Keegan for the touching when he knows
that's not comfortable, then apologize to you for "parenting" your
child without your consent.

~Alyce

G&M Contracting Inc., Kenneth Gillilan

Amen to that!!!

AnnMarie
-----Original Message-----
From: Alyce [mailto:Groups@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 2:51 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: DON'T TOUCH ME!


--- In [email protected], "G&M Contracting Inc.,
Kenneth Gillilan" <gmcontractinginc@v...> wrote:


I'd like to know where the neighbor gets off thinking he has
anything to say about your child touching your wiper. It would fall
to you to tell him to stop if you wanted him to stop. I'd think the
neighbor should apologize to Keegan for the touching when he knows
that's not comfortable, then apologize to you for "parenting" your
child without your consent.

~Alyce


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Valerie

AnnMarie... I didn't realize the neighbor was already aware of
Keegan's sensitivity. I'm more peeved than I was before.

It sounds like the same kind of thing that well-meaning people do
when they 'test' our kids to see if we're up to grade level. My aunt
was always asking Laurie English questions because she was an
English teacher. (Laurie eventually told my aunt that she would let
her know when she had an interest in advanced grammar... she was 9
at the time).

I understand what you mean about thinking too late about what you
should have said. I am better at that than I used to be, but I still
have a problem with it. I used to automatically not say anything
because I didn't want others to think I was strange. I think it
became habit to hold my tongue some of the time rather than say what
I was thinking...just to avoid the conflict.

As Laurie got older, I became more confident and I started saying
what I thought as soon as I thought it. It would have been okay in
your situation to immediately gasp and say, "You KNOW he doesn't
like to be touched. How dare you!" Once I got to where I would speak
out immediately when someone offended me or Laurie, Laurie grew
stronger and more verbose (and boy did she!) :-)

Sometimes I believe I KNEW what to say when something happened, but
I was afraid I'd offend so I'd keep quiet. I soon figured out that
the offenders needed to be offended or they'd do it again.

I guess in a way I'm giving you permission (not that you need it
from me) to "let 'em have it" when they offend you. You don't owe
them a thing.

love, Valerie

--- In [email protected], "G&M Contracting Inc.,
Kenneth Gillilan" <gmcontractinginc@v...> wrote:
> Kelly,
> I didn't state that the two examples I gave of people
manhandling my son
> were from people who I have explained on more than one occasion
what the
> situation is. It's like they don't believe me or like I said in
another
> post it's some king of power trip there on to try to change him.
Like; He
> won't dare do that to me...
>
> AnnMarie

mamaaj2000

--- In [email protected], "vermontones"
<gmcontractinginc@v...> wrote:
> I 've posted several times and have spoken often of my son
> Keegan who is 5, but for those of you who haven't heard of him he
is
> typical highly spirited child. He, in addition, is also sensitive
to
> touch meaning he doesn't like to be touched. He can take a little
> touching by me, but not by outsiders.

AnnMarie,

I am often in similar situations. People have so little respect for a
2-3 yr old's space. I took Mikey to a tumbling class when he was 2
and the teachers kept doing the same thing every class--trying
to 'help' him on the equipment, jumping into his path to say hello
when he was running, etc. They never got the fact that they might
want to do something different. When I took him to a Gymboree
class...ah, the difference. The teachers had obviously been trained
on how to deal with his type! He went from screaming the first time
they tried to do something with them to eating out of their hands
(figuratively, that is). Of course, it cost a lot more money and is
much further from our house...

When he screams or blows raspberries, I remind him of our standards
of behavior and ask him to use his words. I usually start by talking
to Mikey and ignoring the adult, because Mikey's so upset. Then
either he can express himself in words or I can do it or help him. At
that point, the adult hears what the issue is and sees that I treat
it as legitimate. How they respond varies. Sometimes I understand
where they are coming from; e.g., Mikey starts screaming when someone
else tries to strap him into his carseat. Well, of course he needs to
be strapped in, so sometimes the adult doesn't see the real reason
he's fussing. Once they understand it's the problem of *who* straps
him in, they usually are happy to sit back and not deal with it! Our
almost 9 yr old neighbor with VERY controling parents has had a bit
of a learning curve but is finally asking Mikey before he does
something.


Whew. Your neighbor grabbing his arm is terrible. I can understand
both of you having a strong reaction. I would probably gotten away
from the neighbor as quickly as possible before I grabbed his arm!
I'd wait until I could talk calmly and tell him never to grab my
child again. It's not about Keegan's touch issues; it wouldn't be
appropriate to do to any child, even if they didn't protest!

Good luck,
aj