new list description
Meredith
Now and then, usually after some onlist drama, it seems like a good idea to rework the list description. In the past I (and others) have tried to keep the description... um... descriptive, but this time I'm thinking of trying something with more of a "warning label" quality and keeping the actual descriptiveness to a minimum. I'm not expecting it to actually scare anyone away but I can at least hope less people will get their feelings hurt.
I haven't counted characters so I don't know if I'll have to pare this down but here's what I have in mind:
**************
HERE BE DRAGONS! and you are crunchy and go well with home-made ketchup: Welcome.
This group is dedicated to the analysis of factors which allow the basic principles of unschooling philosophy to be realized amidst the complex interactions of real family life. It does this via a kind of Q&A format where questions AND responses are vigorously dissected by... the dragons: seasonded unschooling parents who have been incorporating those principles into all areas of life - an approach sometimes called "radical unschooling". Brand new unschoolers and experienced home/unschoolers interested in exploring the unschooling basics are all welcome to read and participate.
You'll probably want to read a few threads before jumping in, as the style of interaction can be shocking at first. We're intense, passionate people who don't do (((hugs))) or empty assurances about parenting and... you're crunchy. To some, this group will seem like a breath of fresh air because of that. Others: feel free to run screaming at any time.
The Basics:
1. That learning is a central human endeavor.
2. That learning is inextricably dependent on the perceptions and perspectives of the individual.
3. That children are motivated by the same human needs, emotions, and responses as adults, including those related to learning.
*************
If anyone has a picture of a dragon playing a video game, that might be a fun addition too. Otherwise, I'll leave the photo alone - it's cute.
I haven't counted characters so I don't know if I'll have to pare this down but here's what I have in mind:
**************
HERE BE DRAGONS! and you are crunchy and go well with home-made ketchup: Welcome.
This group is dedicated to the analysis of factors which allow the basic principles of unschooling philosophy to be realized amidst the complex interactions of real family life. It does this via a kind of Q&A format where questions AND responses are vigorously dissected by... the dragons: seasonded unschooling parents who have been incorporating those principles into all areas of life - an approach sometimes called "radical unschooling". Brand new unschoolers and experienced home/unschoolers interested in exploring the unschooling basics are all welcome to read and participate.
You'll probably want to read a few threads before jumping in, as the style of interaction can be shocking at first. We're intense, passionate people who don't do (((hugs))) or empty assurances about parenting and... you're crunchy. To some, this group will seem like a breath of fresh air because of that. Others: feel free to run screaming at any time.
The Basics:
1. That learning is a central human endeavor.
2. That learning is inextricably dependent on the perceptions and perspectives of the individual.
3. That children are motivated by the same human needs, emotions, and responses as adults, including those related to learning.
*************
If anyone has a picture of a dragon playing a video game, that might be a fun addition too. Otherwise, I'll leave the photo alone - it's cute.
regan
I like it!
As a relative newbie, what I'd find additionally helpful, would be a quick (if that's possible) summary about how radical unschooling extends to sleeping, food, media, etc. When I looked around at lists to join, it seemed like this one, since it's called "basics" it was going to just handle reading, math, etc., and that other lists would focus on the radical whole-life approach.
One other note: in my world, "crunchy" is a nickname for a person who is involved in hippie culture, particularly as concerns making one's own food. Granola, raw milk, sprouting grains, etc. The way crunchy is used in this description sounds to me like it's for crunchy lifestyles in particular.
best,
Regan
As a relative newbie, what I'd find additionally helpful, would be a quick (if that's possible) summary about how radical unschooling extends to sleeping, food, media, etc. When I looked around at lists to join, it seemed like this one, since it's called "basics" it was going to just handle reading, math, etc., and that other lists would focus on the radical whole-life approach.
One other note: in my world, "crunchy" is a nickname for a person who is involved in hippie culture, particularly as concerns making one's own food. Granola, raw milk, sprouting grains, etc. The way crunchy is used in this description sounds to me like it's for crunchy lifestyles in particular.
best,
Regan
On Feb 24, 2013, at 9:55 AM, "Meredith" <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
> Now and then, usually after some onlist drama, it seems like a good idea to rework the list description. In the past I (and others) have tried to keep the description... um... descriptive, but this time I'm thinking of trying something with more of a "warning label" quality and keeping the actual descriptiveness to a minimum. I'm not expecting it to actually scare anyone away but I can at least hope less people will get their feelings hurt.
>
> I haven't counted characters so I don't know if I'll have to pare this down but here's what I have in mind:
>
> **************
>
> HERE BE DRAGONS! and you are crunchy and go well with home-made ketchup: Welcome.
>
> This group is dedicated to the analysis of factors which allow the basic principles of unschooling philosophy to be realized amidst the complex interactions of real family life. It does this via a kind of Q&A format where questions AND responses are vigorously dissected by... the dragons: seasonded unschooling parents who have been incorporating those principles into all areas of life - an approach sometimes called "radical unschooling". Brand new unschoolers and experienced home/unschoolers interested in exploring the unschooling basics are all welcome to read and participate.
>
> You'll probably want to read a few threads before jumping in, as the style of interaction can be shocking at first. We're intense, passionate people who don't do (((hugs))) or empty assurances about parenting and... you're crunchy. To some, this group will seem like a breath of fresh air because of that. Others: feel free to run screaming at any time.
>
> The Basics:
> 1. That learning is a central human endeavor.
> 2. That learning is inextricably dependent on the perceptions and perspectives of the individual.
> 3. That children are motivated by the same human needs, emotions, and responses as adults, including those related to learning.
> *************
>
> If anyone has a picture of a dragon playing a video game, that might be a fun addition too. Otherwise, I'll leave the photo alone - it's cute.
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bea
Hmm, I hope you're kidding :-)
I jut reread it, and I like the list description the way it is right now (the original one I mean, not the one in your post.)
But then again, I don't think most newcomers pay much attention to the list description... that might be a good way to get their attention, or to tell if they read it at all ;-) (It might scare some people right off too ;-)
Bea
I jut reread it, and I like the list description the way it is right now (the original one I mean, not the one in your post.)
But then again, I don't think most newcomers pay much attention to the list description... that might be a good way to get their attention, or to tell if they read it at all ;-) (It might scare some people right off too ;-)
Bea
--- In [email protected], "Meredith" <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
>
> Now and then, usually after some onlist drama, it seems like a good idea to rework the list description. In the past I (and others) have tried to keep the description... um... descriptive, but this time I'm thinking of trying something with more of a "warning label" quality and keeping the actual descriptiveness to a minimum. I'm not expecting it to actually scare anyone away but I can at least hope less people will get their feelings hurt.
>
> I haven't counted characters so I don't know if I'll have to pare this down but here's what I have in mind:
>
> **************
>
> HERE BE DRAGONS! and you are crunchy and go well with home-made ketchup: Welcome.
>
> This group is dedicated to the analysis of factors which allow the basic principles of unschooling philosophy to be realized amidst the complex interactions of real family life. It does this via a kind of Q&A format where questions AND responses are vigorously dissected by... the dragons: seasonded unschooling parents who have been incorporating those principles into all areas of life - an approach sometimes called "radical unschooling". Brand new unschoolers and experienced home/unschoolers interested in exploring the unschooling basics are all welcome to read and participate.
>
> You'll probably want to read a few threads before jumping in, as the style of interaction can be shocking at first. We're intense, passionate people who don't do (((hugs))) or empty assurances about parenting and... you're crunchy. To some, this group will seem like a breath of fresh air because of that. Others: feel free to run screaming at any time.
>
>
>
> The Basics:
> 1. That learning is a central human endeavor.
> 2. That learning is inextricably dependent on the perceptions and perspectives of the individual.
> 3. That children are motivated by the same human needs, emotions, and responses as adults, including those related to learning.
> *************
>
> If anyone has a picture of a dragon playing a video game, that might be a fun addition too. Otherwise, I'll leave the photo alone - it's cute.
>
Kelly Halldorson
I love it.
Sent from my iPhone
Sent from my iPhone
Meredith
regan <regan@...> wrote:
I was thinking about adding something to that effect, but here's the issue I have, and it's right there in Regan's comment - the list description absolutely does mention sleeping, food, media, chores and "parenting issues" and all those things were added to the description specifically because others have complained they didn't know that's what the list was about.
I might play around with blending the current description with the new idea - I really want it to read as a kind of warning, albeit a playful one. The current "everything you think you know is about to be challenged" doesn't seem to convey that strongly enough.
Okay, I wasn't sure how that would read... I might change the second "crunchy" to something else or drop it entirely.
---Meredith
>************
> I like it!
> As a relative newbie, what I'd find additionally helpful, would be a quick (if that's possible) summary about how radical unschooling extends to sleeping, food, media, etc. When I looked around at lists to join, it seemed like this one, since it's called "basics" it was going to just handle reading, math, etc., and that other lists would focus on the radical whole-life approach.
I was thinking about adding something to that effect, but here's the issue I have, and it's right there in Regan's comment - the list description absolutely does mention sleeping, food, media, chores and "parenting issues" and all those things were added to the description specifically because others have complained they didn't know that's what the list was about.
I might play around with blending the current description with the new idea - I really want it to read as a kind of warning, albeit a playful one. The current "everything you think you know is about to be challenged" doesn't seem to convey that strongly enough.
>************
> One other note: in my world, "crunchy" is a nickname for a person who is involved in hippie culture
Okay, I wasn't sure how that would read... I might change the second "crunchy" to something else or drop it entirely.
---Meredith
regan
I could add a clarification note about my own confusion -- why is the list called "Basics"? To me, that means simple, for beginners, just the essential parts, etc. What does "Basics" mean when it's applied to unschooling? I expect a basics list to be especially good for beginners, since new people would naturally join a place called basics first.
I think that the addition of the new warning is helpful because of terms like analysis, vigorous dissection -- those more accurately reflect the actual activity of the list.
cheers,
regan
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I think that the addition of the new warning is helpful because of terms like analysis, vigorous dissection -- those more accurately reflect the actual activity of the list.
cheers,
regan
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Danielle
I think the description is quite fitting.
Sent from my iPhone
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 24, 2013, at 9:55 AM, "Meredith" <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
> Now and then, usually after some onlist drama, it seems like a good idea to rework the list description. In the past I (and others) have tried to keep the description... um... descriptive, but this time I'm thinking of trying something with more of a "warning label" quality and keeping the actual descriptiveness to a minimum. I'm not expecting it to actually scare anyone away but I can at least hope less people will get their feelings hurt.
>
> I haven't counted characters so I don't know if I'll have to pare this down but here's what I have in mind:
>
> **************
>
> HERE BE DRAGONS! and you are crunchy and go well with home-made ketchup: Welcome.
>
> This group is dedicated to the analysis of factors which allow the basic principles of unschooling philosophy to be realized amidst the complex interactions of real family life. It does this via a kind of Q&A format where questions AND responses are vigorously dissected by... the dragons: seasonded unschooling parents who have been incorporating those principles into all areas of life - an approach sometimes called "radical unschooling". Brand new unschoolers and experienced home/unschoolers interested in exploring the unschooling basics are all welcome to read and participate.
>
> You'll probably want to read a few threads before jumping in, as the style of interaction can be shocking at first. We're intense, passionate people who don't do (((hugs))) or empty assurances about parenting and... you're crunchy. To some, this group will seem like a breath of fresh air because of that. Others: feel free to run screaming at any time.
>
> The Basics:
> 1. That learning is a central human endeavor.
> 2. That learning is inextricably dependent on the perceptions and perspectives of the individual.
> 3. That children are motivated by the same human needs, emotions, and responses as adults, including those related to learning.
> *************
>
> If anyone has a picture of a dragon playing a video game, that might be a fun addition too. Otherwise, I'll leave the photo alone - it's cute.
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
I think it's cute. :-) But humor should lead people to a new insight in a fun way. Instead I think it will just reinforce the impression we want to get rid of! ;-)
It's not that we *are* dragons. It's that new members assume the environment is something it isn't. In that "Accept me. Support me in my struggles" environment we *look* like dragons when we say "No, that will hurt your child.". But if they see the environment for what it is -- help on shifting their thinking -- we're being helpful. Maybe something like:
Wait! This group might not be what you think it is!
This group exists to help new unschoolers who want to change.
Here you will find help in making the choices that support your children in discovering what's meaningful to them and to growing closer relationships with them.
Here you will find deep examination of ideas that will move you closer to unschooling and ideas that will move you away.
Some people find what's offered here exactly what they wanted. Some people find it makes them uncomfortable.
Please take some time to read for a while to get a feel for how the group works and whether it will meet your need.
Joyce
It's not that we *are* dragons. It's that new members assume the environment is something it isn't. In that "Accept me. Support me in my struggles" environment we *look* like dragons when we say "No, that will hurt your child.". But if they see the environment for what it is -- help on shifting their thinking -- we're being helpful. Maybe something like:
Wait! This group might not be what you think it is!
This group exists to help new unschoolers who want to change.
Here you will find help in making the choices that support your children in discovering what's meaningful to them and to growing closer relationships with them.
Here you will find deep examination of ideas that will move you closer to unschooling and ideas that will move you away.
Some people find what's offered here exactly what they wanted. Some people find it makes them uncomfortable.
Please take some time to read for a while to get a feel for how the group works and whether it will meet your need.
Joyce
On Feb 24, 2013, at 9:55 AM, Meredith wrote:
> Now and then, usually after some onlist drama, it seems like a good idea to rework the list description. In the past I (and others) have tried to keep the description... um... descriptive, but this time I'm thinking of trying something with more of a "warning label" quality and keeping the actual descriptiveness to a minimum. I'm not expecting it to actually scare anyone away but I can at least hope less people will get their feelings hurt.
>
> I haven't counted characters so I don't know if I'll have to pare this down but here's what I have in mind:
>
> **************
>
> HERE BE DRAGONS! and you are crunchy and go well with home-made ketchup: Welcome.
>
> This group is dedicated to the analysis of factors which allow the basic principles of unschooling philosophy to be realized amidst the complex interactions of real family life. It does this via a kind of Q&A format where questions AND responses are vigorously dissected by... the dragons: seasonded unschooling parents who have been incorporating those principles into all areas of life - an approach sometimes called "radical unschooling". Brand new unschoolers and experienced home/unschoolers interested in exploring the unschooling basics are all welcome to read and participate.
>
> You'll probably want to read a few threads before jumping in, as the style of interaction can be shocking at first. We're intense, passionate people who don't do (((hugs))) or empty assurances about parenting and... you're crunchy. To some, this group will seem like a breath of fresh air because of that. Others: feel free to run screaming at any time.
>
> The Basics:
> 1. That learning is a central human endeavor.
> 2. That learning is inextricably dependent on the perceptions and perspectives of the individual.
> 3. That children are motivated by the same human needs, emotions, and responses as adults, including those related to learning.
> *************
>
> If anyone has a picture of a dragon playing a video game, that might be a fun addition too. Otherwise, I'll leave the photo alone - it's cute.
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
That's something I wasn't sure of - if it would reinforce the stereotype or poke fun at it while also... owning it a bit. I want to own it or parts of it. Because we absolutely do carve up posts into itty bitty bits and chew on them and I'm tired of downplaying that. The dragon bit was a cute conceit, and I wasn't sure the humor would carry or not. I'm more interested in keeping the word "dissect" in the description, or saying something every bit as strong. "Deep examination" doesn't get there. And "dissect" or something like it will Still reinforce the same stereotype.
---Meredith
>**************
> I think it's cute. :-) But humor should lead people to a new insight in a fun way. Instead I think it will just reinforce the impression we want to get rid of! ;-)
That's something I wasn't sure of - if it would reinforce the stereotype or poke fun at it while also... owning it a bit. I want to own it or parts of it. Because we absolutely do carve up posts into itty bitty bits and chew on them and I'm tired of downplaying that. The dragon bit was a cute conceit, and I wasn't sure the humor would carry or not. I'm more interested in keeping the word "dissect" in the description, or saying something every bit as strong. "Deep examination" doesn't get there. And "dissect" or something like it will Still reinforce the same stereotype.
---Meredith
Kelly Lovejoy
I think what's more important is to send a reminder to everyone every month.
I doubt less than half of the members actually reads and remembers the welcome message/list description. But if it goes out each month, it *might* get read once or twice/year.
The dragon stuff is cute---MAYBE it would get a chuckle or two and let folks know that, although we take the SUBJECT *very* seriously, we don't necessarily take ourselves so seriously! ;-)
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
-----Original Message-----
From: Meredith <plaidpanties666@...>
Now and then, usually after some onlist drama, it seems like a good idea to
rework the list description. In the past I (and others) have tried to keep the
description... um... descriptive, but this time I'm thinking of trying something
with more of a "warning label" quality and keeping the actual descriptiveness to
a minimum. I'm not expecting it to actually scare anyone away but I can at least
hope less people will get their feelings hurt.
I haven't counted characters so I don't know if I'll have to pare this down but
here's what I have in mind:
**************
HERE BE DRAGONS! and you are crunchy and go well with home-made ketchup:
Welcome.
This group is dedicated to the analysis of factors which allow the basic
principles of unschooling philosophy to be realized amidst the complex
interactions of real family life. It does this via a kind of Q&A format where
questions AND responses are vigorously dissected by... the dragons: seasonded
unschooling parents who have been incorporating those principles into all areas
of life - an approach sometimes called "radical unschooling". Brand new
unschoolers and experienced home/unschoolers interested in exploring the
unschooling basics are all welcome to read and participate.
You'll probably want to read a few threads before jumping in, as the style of
interaction can be shocking at first. We're intense, passionate people who don't
do (((hugs))) or empty assurances about parenting and... you're crunchy. To
some, this group will seem like a breath of fresh air because of that. Others:
feel free to run screaming at any time.
The Basics:
1. That learning is a central human endeavor.
2. That learning is inextricably dependent on the perceptions and perspectives
of the individual.
3. That children are motivated by the same human needs, emotions, and responses
as adults, including those related to learning.
*************
If anyone has a picture of a dragon playing a video game, that might be a fun
addition too. Otherwise, I'll leave the photo alone - it's cute.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I doubt less than half of the members actually reads and remembers the welcome message/list description. But if it goes out each month, it *might* get read once or twice/year.
The dragon stuff is cute---MAYBE it would get a chuckle or two and let folks know that, although we take the SUBJECT *very* seriously, we don't necessarily take ourselves so seriously! ;-)
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
-----Original Message-----
From: Meredith <plaidpanties666@...>
Now and then, usually after some onlist drama, it seems like a good idea to
rework the list description. In the past I (and others) have tried to keep the
description... um... descriptive, but this time I'm thinking of trying something
with more of a "warning label" quality and keeping the actual descriptiveness to
a minimum. I'm not expecting it to actually scare anyone away but I can at least
hope less people will get their feelings hurt.
I haven't counted characters so I don't know if I'll have to pare this down but
here's what I have in mind:
**************
HERE BE DRAGONS! and you are crunchy and go well with home-made ketchup:
Welcome.
This group is dedicated to the analysis of factors which allow the basic
principles of unschooling philosophy to be realized amidst the complex
interactions of real family life. It does this via a kind of Q&A format where
questions AND responses are vigorously dissected by... the dragons: seasonded
unschooling parents who have been incorporating those principles into all areas
of life - an approach sometimes called "radical unschooling". Brand new
unschoolers and experienced home/unschoolers interested in exploring the
unschooling basics are all welcome to read and participate.
You'll probably want to read a few threads before jumping in, as the style of
interaction can be shocking at first. We're intense, passionate people who don't
do (((hugs))) or empty assurances about parenting and... you're crunchy. To
some, this group will seem like a breath of fresh air because of that. Others:
feel free to run screaming at any time.
The Basics:
1. That learning is a central human endeavor.
2. That learning is inextricably dependent on the perceptions and perspectives
of the individual.
3. That children are motivated by the same human needs, emotions, and responses
as adults, including those related to learning.
*************
If anyone has a picture of a dragon playing a video game, that might be a fun
addition too. Otherwise, I'll leave the photo alone - it's cute.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
I'll be a "no" vote on the dragons. It's OK to speak to people in grownup voices.
What else does Yahoo Groups offer to inform people as they join? The monthly reminders are a good idea. Can there be some sort of waiting period before the newbies can post? Or a way to screen posts and refer posters to the list description when they clearly need it? Or is that just more work for the moderators?
Nance
What else does Yahoo Groups offer to inform people as they join? The monthly reminders are a good idea. Can there be some sort of waiting period before the newbies can post? Or a way to screen posts and refer posters to the list description when they clearly need it? Or is that just more work for the moderators?
Nance
--- In [email protected], Kelly Lovejoy <kbcdlovejo@...> wrote:
>
> I think what's more important is to send a reminder to everyone every month.
>
>
> I doubt less than half of the members actually reads and remembers the welcome message/list description. But if it goes out each month, it *might* get read once or twice/year.
>
>
> The dragon stuff is cute---MAYBE it would get a chuckle or two and let folks know that, although we take the SUBJECT *very* seriously, we don't necessarily take ourselves so seriously! ;-)
>
>
> ~Kelly
>
> Kelly Lovejoy
Meredith
"marbleface@..." <marbleface@...> wrote:
Yeah, that's the problem with humor - it can come across in exactly the wrong way.
Probably the list description is fine as it is - it already has everything Regan suggests in it. The only thing I'd add would be a warning of some kind at the top - maybe "this is not a support group!" Something really direct. People still won't read it, but I'll feel better.
I don't have any opinion at all about a monthly send-out, other than that the yahoo system seems kind of glitchy in that regard.
Someone (Kelly maybe, this whole discussion started off list) suggested an FAQ and I've been in the mood to write so I cobbled together a draft of one. It's in the files, but not set to be sent out, just there to be stumbled over.
It's entirely possible I'm just annoyed with the drama on the internet in general. I'm in one of my phases where I want to have a philosophical discussion and can't find one, and I'm lousy at thread starters so I can't figure out how to start the kind of discussion I want to have. I'll think about that.
---Meredith
> I'll be a "no" vote on the dragons. It's OK to speak to people in grownup voices.*************
Yeah, that's the problem with humor - it can come across in exactly the wrong way.
Probably the list description is fine as it is - it already has everything Regan suggests in it. The only thing I'd add would be a warning of some kind at the top - maybe "this is not a support group!" Something really direct. People still won't read it, but I'll feel better.
I don't have any opinion at all about a monthly send-out, other than that the yahoo system seems kind of glitchy in that regard.
Someone (Kelly maybe, this whole discussion started off list) suggested an FAQ and I've been in the mood to write so I cobbled together a draft of one. It's in the files, but not set to be sent out, just there to be stumbled over.
It's entirely possible I'm just annoyed with the drama on the internet in general. I'm in one of my phases where I want to have a philosophical discussion and can't find one, and I'm lousy at thread starters so I can't figure out how to start the kind of discussion I want to have. I'll think about that.
---Meredith
Joyce Fetteroll
On Feb 25, 2013, at 7:34 AM, marbleface@... wrote:
List owners can:
* send out automatic emails after someone joins. -- Problem one: Yahoo automatically sends out an email that's a waste of people's time. Problem two: We're inundated with "friendly" emails inviting and welcoming that have no substance.
So I think most people don't read them. The one on Always Learning even says "Don't post without reading!" or something like that. It gets ignored.
Problem three: I suspect many may sign up with an email address they don't use because they intend to read at the website, so emails are useless for reaching them.
* send out periodic (monthly, weekly) emails to the list. --Problem one: If you join right after an email goes out, it can be 30 days before the next one. Most people butt heads with the group in the first few days of joining.
Problem two: The emails get annoying to the people who've been on the list for a long time.
* require approval for everyone joining. -- With that everyone gets an email they must respond to. Question they need to answer can be added. Problem one: If someone signs up with an email they don't use, they won't see the email.
Problem two: lots of people don't like them. It feels like you're being scrutinized. I personally like joining lists quietly so I can see if I like them. I don't like feeling I'm being vetted first! ;-)
I think that's it.
The ways to use and get onto lists has expanded a great deal since Yahoo first began offering them. What it really needs is some kind of interactive join feature so a message can be put before the eyes of everyone before they join. But that's not (yet) possible. And, of course, there would *still* be people who wouldn't read. BUT, at least it's something to point at when someone gets flustered. Then you can ask "Well, did you read the guidelines that you said you did when you joined?" ;-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> What else does Yahoo Groups offer to inform people as they join?Very little!
List owners can:
* send out automatic emails after someone joins. -- Problem one: Yahoo automatically sends out an email that's a waste of people's time. Problem two: We're inundated with "friendly" emails inviting and welcoming that have no substance.
So I think most people don't read them. The one on Always Learning even says "Don't post without reading!" or something like that. It gets ignored.
Problem three: I suspect many may sign up with an email address they don't use because they intend to read at the website, so emails are useless for reaching them.
* send out periodic (monthly, weekly) emails to the list. --Problem one: If you join right after an email goes out, it can be 30 days before the next one. Most people butt heads with the group in the first few days of joining.
Problem two: The emails get annoying to the people who've been on the list for a long time.
* require approval for everyone joining. -- With that everyone gets an email they must respond to. Question they need to answer can be added. Problem one: If someone signs up with an email they don't use, they won't see the email.
Problem two: lots of people don't like them. It feels like you're being scrutinized. I personally like joining lists quietly so I can see if I like them. I don't like feeling I'm being vetted first! ;-)
I think that's it.
The ways to use and get onto lists has expanded a great deal since Yahoo first began offering them. What it really needs is some kind of interactive join feature so a message can be put before the eyes of everyone before they join. But that's not (yet) possible. And, of course, there would *still* be people who wouldn't read. BUT, at least it's something to point at when someone gets flustered. Then you can ask "Well, did you read the guidelines that you said you did when you joined?" ;-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Gina Rodriguez
I was thinking the exact same thing! The description is great! It is the name "basics" that throws a newbie off.
Gina
Sent from my iPhone
Gina
Sent from my iPhone
Joyce Fetteroll
On Feb 25, 2013, at 8:06 AM, Meredith wrote:
I've probably written "It's a discussion list not a support list," a couple hundred times to absolutely no effect. ;-) (I've stopped saying that. I try other ways.)
Once you understand the difference, that statement makes sense. Until then, it just doesn't register. It's like saying "What you're breathing isn't air."
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I'd add would be a warning of some kind at the top - maybe "this is not a support group!The problem I've found over the years is people don't know that groups aren't for support. Group = support in their minds. *Especially* if it's a gathering of moms around a parenting topic.
I've probably written "It's a discussion list not a support list," a couple hundred times to absolutely no effect. ;-) (I've stopped saying that. I try other ways.)
Once you understand the difference, that statement makes sense. Until then, it just doesn't register. It's like saying "What you're breathing isn't air."
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lovejoy
But newbies are all on moderation anyway. They can be sent a reminder if they "forget."
And how many oldtimers are incapable of hitting the delete button once a month?
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
-----Original Message-----
From: Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...>
* send out periodic (monthly, weekly) emails to the list. --Problem one: If you
join right after an email goes out, it can be 30 days before the next one. Most
people butt heads with the group in the first few days of joining.
Problem two: The emails get annoying to the people who've been on the list for a
long time.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
And how many oldtimers are incapable of hitting the delete button once a month?
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
-----Original Message-----
From: Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...>
* send out periodic (monthly, weekly) emails to the list. --Problem one: If you
join right after an email goes out, it can be 30 days before the next one. Most
people butt heads with the group in the first few days of joining.
Problem two: The emails get annoying to the people who've been on the list for a
long time.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Colleen
If you do go with the dragon humor, I'd suggest that maybe it's the ideas that are crunchy and go well with ketchup, not the people :-)
Ideas and philosophies and thoughts are fun and interesting to ponder and consider and dissect. And this list (and Always Learning, and maybe others I'm not thinking of) are great places to do that because experienced idea-havers are here and are willing to talk :-)
The process of bringing an idea and having it crunched up, dipped in ketchup, and devoured scares some people - I think in part because they get confused and blur the line between themselves and their ideas.
And then a dragon :-) says "that idea doesn't sound quite right, in a unschooling light, and this is why..." or "that idea doesn't sound quite in keeping with how children *really* learn, and this is why..." and the idea-bringer hears instead "YOU ARE WRONG AND STUPID AND HAVE NO BUSINESS BEING AROUND DRAGONS" even though that's not remotely what was actually said :-)
If I am my ideas, then it's easy to get insulted and upset when people criticize or question or dissect or dismiss my ideas. If I am simply Me - a person with ideas, ideas that I allow to change and grow and evolve over time - then it's easier to stand objectively to the side while my ideas get batted around and sometimes devoured.
Maybe something to say somehow to people new to the list would be along the lines of (not these words necessarily, but this idea :-))
It's not about you - it's about the ideas and words and concepts you bring to the dragon-table, but it's not about you. Really. You are not your ideas. Dragons are friendly to people, but they love to crunch on ideas :-)
Maybe not - or maybe it's been tried, or maybe what I'm thinking doesn't make sense. But trying really, really hard not to take things personally seems key in any good and productive discussion :-)
Colleen
Ideas and philosophies and thoughts are fun and interesting to ponder and consider and dissect. And this list (and Always Learning, and maybe others I'm not thinking of) are great places to do that because experienced idea-havers are here and are willing to talk :-)
The process of bringing an idea and having it crunched up, dipped in ketchup, and devoured scares some people - I think in part because they get confused and blur the line between themselves and their ideas.
And then a dragon :-) says "that idea doesn't sound quite right, in a unschooling light, and this is why..." or "that idea doesn't sound quite in keeping with how children *really* learn, and this is why..." and the idea-bringer hears instead "YOU ARE WRONG AND STUPID AND HAVE NO BUSINESS BEING AROUND DRAGONS" even though that's not remotely what was actually said :-)
If I am my ideas, then it's easy to get insulted and upset when people criticize or question or dissect or dismiss my ideas. If I am simply Me - a person with ideas, ideas that I allow to change and grow and evolve over time - then it's easier to stand objectively to the side while my ideas get batted around and sometimes devoured.
Maybe something to say somehow to people new to the list would be along the lines of (not these words necessarily, but this idea :-))
It's not about you - it's about the ideas and words and concepts you bring to the dragon-table, but it's not about you. Really. You are not your ideas. Dragons are friendly to people, but they love to crunch on ideas :-)
Maybe not - or maybe it's been tried, or maybe what I'm thinking doesn't make sense. But trying really, really hard not to take things personally seems key in any good and productive discussion :-)
Colleen
Joyce Fetteroll
On Feb 25, 2013, at 10:12 AM, Kelly Lovejoy wrote:
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> But newbies are all on moderation anyway. They can be sent a reminder if they "forget."They'll sit in the Pending folder until they're approved. But if they aren't checking the email address they signed up with, reminder emails won't work any better than the first one. And it's extra work for the moderators.
> And how many oldtimers are incapable of hitting the delete button once a month?There's lots of things I'm capable of doing that are nonetheless annoying! ;-) The local list I'm moderator of sends out reminders. It's not a BIG annoyance. But it's a factor to consider *if* there are other options.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Melissa Jones
I like it! It's interesting and gives a solid mental picture. It can be easily remembered. I hope it makes life easier for the moderators and company. You guys spend many many ours helping out.
Mel
Mel
On Feb 25, 2013, at 9:26 AM, Joyce Fetteroll wrote:
>
> On Feb 25, 2013, at 10:12 AM, Kelly Lovejoy wrote:
>
> > But newbies are all on moderation anyway. They can be sent a reminder if they "forget."
>
> They'll sit in the Pending folder until they're approved. But if they aren't checking the email address they signed up with, reminder emails won't work any better than the first one. And it's extra work for the moderators.
>
> > And how many oldtimers are incapable of hitting the delete button once a month?
>
> There's lots of things I'm capable of doing that are nonetheless annoying! ;-) The local list I'm moderator of sends out reminders. It's not a BIG annoyance. But it's a factor to consider *if* there are other options.
>
> Joyce
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
Gina Rodriguez <rodriguezintexas@...> wrote:
It does Some newcomers to the list, but for others the "basics" include the philosophical underpinnings of unschooling. In a way, it's a difference in learning styles - some people want to start with nuts and bolts, some with theory, and some with the intersection of theory and practicality. This list focuses on the intersection.
To me the "basics" part of the name is really important from that standpoint - I'd rather people were annoyed at the list than feel like they can't "jump in at the deep end" as it were and get into the... well, the basics of what unschooling is all about.
---Meredith
>************
> I was thinking the exact same thing! The description is great! It is the name "basics" that throws a newbie off.
It does Some newcomers to the list, but for others the "basics" include the philosophical underpinnings of unschooling. In a way, it's a difference in learning styles - some people want to start with nuts and bolts, some with theory, and some with the intersection of theory and practicality. This list focuses on the intersection.
To me the "basics" part of the name is really important from that standpoint - I'd rather people were annoyed at the list than feel like they can't "jump in at the deep end" as it were and get into the... well, the basics of what unschooling is all about.
---Meredith
lindaguitar
From my perspective, as a long-time unschooling mom whose kids are now grown, I think it's important to use the word "radical" before the word "unschooling" in any description you come up with (in fact, it's too bad the group's name isn't "Radical Unschooling Basics), and it's also only fair to warn prospective new members about your censorship of messages and points of view that you dislike or disagree with.
Linda
Linda
--- In [email protected], "Meredith" <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
>
> Now and then, usually after some onlist drama, it seems like a good idea to rework the list description. ....
Eva
It might be the 'basics' part that's a bit confusing. I think a lot of people assume this is a 'list for beginners' when they join the list. The expectations then would be to find a list that discusses the easier parts and consepts of unschooling and a list that helps beginning unschoolers. Where 'help' is often considered as: support, cheering on, encouraging etc.
Maybe it would help to write something on the homepage like: Although the list is called basics, this doesn't mean... etc. etc. [English is not my first language so I can't think of a really good sentence! ;-)]
Eva
Berend (8) & Fiene (6)
From The Netherlands
Maybe it would help to write something on the homepage like: Although the list is called basics, this doesn't mean... etc. etc. [English is not my first language so I can't think of a really good sentence! ;-)]
Eva
Berend (8) & Fiene (6)
From The Netherlands
alma
It was the tossing the tennis ball analogy that did it for me (that the ideas you bring are like tennis balls which get tossed back and forth. They not about you unless you keep jumping up to catch them shouting "Mine" - please someone say it better!). I'm not sure who first said it but I have seen it here and there from time to time.
That kind of thing might help.
Alison
(unschooling sons aged 10 and 7)
That kind of thing might help.
Alison
(unschooling sons aged 10 and 7)
--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Feb 25, 2013, at 8:06 AM, Meredith wrote:
>
> > I'd add would be a warning of some kind at the top - maybe "this is not a support group!
>
> The problem I've found over the years is people don't know that groups aren't for support. Group = support in their minds. *Especially* if it's a gathering of moms around a parenting topic.
>
> I've probably written "It's a discussion list not a support list," a couple hundred times to absolutely no effect. ;-) (I've stopped saying that. I try other ways.)
>
> Once you understand the difference, that statement makes sense. Until then, it just doesn't register. It's like saying "What you're breathing isn't air."
>
> Joyce
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Joyce Fetteroll
On Feb 26, 2013, at 3:07 AM, Eva wrote:
basic: "forming an essential foundation or starting point; fundamental"
The list doesn't offer a specific starting point. We do offer a place where beginners (and others) can ask questions. The two aren't the same because the answers won't be basic!
Maybe it could be called Answers to Radical Unschooling Questions.
A bit long but perhaps more descriptive.
That's because there *isn't* a little bit of unschooling. People can use one, two, a handful of unschooling ideas. But thats not unschooling. It's using a handful of unschooling ideas! It's using them all together as a package that makes it unschooling. Just as eating more vegetables isn't vegetarianism. Though someone who wants to eat more vegetables could certainly draw on the ideas in a vegetarian forum.
Though your expectations are a really good jumping off point to discuss thoughts on learning something new!
If someone picks up an introductory book, goes to an introductory class, that person expects it will start with the simplest, basic ideas and build from there.
That approach makes it easy to pour in a chunk of knowledge. (The down side is that since they aren't building their own understanding, they may have memorized rather than understood. Which means the knowledge will fade.)
But humans don't naturally learn like that. Usually we aren't asking questions that can be pulled out of context and answered simply. If someone says "I'm worried my 8 yo isn't reading yet," it's a beginner question, but there isn't a "beginner" answer to it. The answer delves in pretty deeply to how unschooling works.
Every time these beginner questions are answered, someone's understanding of the big picture grows, not just of that one thing.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> It might be the 'basics' part that's a bit confusingI'm coming to see that is true.
basic: "forming an essential foundation or starting point; fundamental"
The list doesn't offer a specific starting point. We do offer a place where beginners (and others) can ask questions. The two aren't the same because the answers won't be basic!
Maybe it could be called Answers to Radical Unschooling Questions.
A bit long but perhaps more descriptive.
> a list that discusses the easier parts and consepts of unschoolingIt is a list where beginners can begin. It isn't, though, a list for people who want to do a little bit of unschooling while being supported in whatever they're comfortable with.
> and a list that helps beginning unschoolers.
That's because there *isn't* a little bit of unschooling. People can use one, two, a handful of unschooling ideas. But thats not unschooling. It's using a handful of unschooling ideas! It's using them all together as a package that makes it unschooling. Just as eating more vegetables isn't vegetarianism. Though someone who wants to eat more vegetables could certainly draw on the ideas in a vegetarian forum.
Though your expectations are a really good jumping off point to discuss thoughts on learning something new!
If someone picks up an introductory book, goes to an introductory class, that person expects it will start with the simplest, basic ideas and build from there.
That approach makes it easy to pour in a chunk of knowledge. (The down side is that since they aren't building their own understanding, they may have memorized rather than understood. Which means the knowledge will fade.)
But humans don't naturally learn like that. Usually we aren't asking questions that can be pulled out of context and answered simply. If someone says "I'm worried my 8 yo isn't reading yet," it's a beginner question, but there isn't a "beginner" answer to it. The answer delves in pretty deeply to how unschooling works.
Every time these beginner questions are answered, someone's understanding of the big picture grows, not just of that one thing.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
And part of the problem is that the "simplest, basic ideas" change from person to person. If you go to a basic yoga class, you might get a lot of breathing, or sun-salutes, either of which would be considered too advanced by another teacher, one who prefers to start everyone out with standing poses. And someone else will start with theory.
What are the basics of unschooling? I think probably the biggest confusion about radical unschooling discussions (other than the obvious) is we rarely state those in any kind of straightforward manner. We let people derive them, come to their own conclusions. That's not an unalloyed good thing, though, because the people who have posted here for a long time (like me) have some definite opinions about what's at the core of unschooling.
People learn. People learn differently. Children are people.
Those are the unschooling basics, right there. Everything else - everything we discuss on this list - derives directly from those.
Maybe I should just add that as a tag line to all my posts... I certainly post enough.
---Meredith
>> If someone picks up an introductory book, goes to an introductory class, that person expects it will start with the simplest, basic ideas and build from there.***************
And part of the problem is that the "simplest, basic ideas" change from person to person. If you go to a basic yoga class, you might get a lot of breathing, or sun-salutes, either of which would be considered too advanced by another teacher, one who prefers to start everyone out with standing poses. And someone else will start with theory.
What are the basics of unschooling? I think probably the biggest confusion about radical unschooling discussions (other than the obvious) is we rarely state those in any kind of straightforward manner. We let people derive them, come to their own conclusions. That's not an unalloyed good thing, though, because the people who have posted here for a long time (like me) have some definite opinions about what's at the core of unschooling.
People learn. People learn differently. Children are people.
Those are the unschooling basics, right there. Everything else - everything we discuss on this list - derives directly from those.
Maybe I should just add that as a tag line to all my posts... I certainly post enough.
---Meredith
Joyce Fetteroll
On Feb 25, 2013, at 10:26 PM, lindaguitar wrote:
The list isn't a magazine. There are important differences, but there is the aspect of keeping the ideas focused on what supports human relationships and learning. There's the aspect of *using* that focus to filter out the ideas the "editors" believe won't. Not everyone will filter with the same criteria the long time posters use. BUT NO ONE IS LIMITED TO THIS FORUM BY SIGNING ON. If you want more ideas, they're out there!
The problem lies in people assuming this is a social group where *everyone* trades ideas.
The problem lies in not being able to explain what the list is instead of a social group before people jump in and get hurt. But it's not for lack of trying!
The best way to learn what something is isn't to depend on someone else to tell you what it is. It's to try it out! See if you like it. If you don't, find something else.
That's the foundation of unschooling! It's how humans learn. It's how kids learn and what parents should be supporting.
One of the big problems with trying to explain this list is that most people didn't know this is what they wanted until they try it. There's nothing people are familiar with that will help them get what this list is before they try it. It's not a class. It's not a magazine. But it shares more with them than it does a support group.
No where in the world can anyone say anything they want anywhere.
In the US everyone is free to create their own forum and put their words out for others to read. Yahoo. Facebook. Blogger. Twitter. Tumblr. You can print pamphlets and hand them out. And loads of others.
If you have ideas you believe are important for people to know that don't get through to the list, make your own forum. Invite people to read it.
That's not true in many countries. If someone's words can't appear in one place they *can't* go somewhere else. They are censored by the government.
What you're calling censorship is filtering. Filtering helps keep information focused. It's a *service* to people. As with a magazine, you find someone whose voice you like. If you don't like their voice, you find someone else. If you don't like any filtering, there's the whole wide world open to you.
Joyce
> it's also only fair to warn prospective new membersIf a magazine doesn't publish every article and letter sent to them, are they censoring? With a magazine there's the *expectation* that you *won't* get every opinion out there. That you *will* get what the editors believe is worthwhile. And if you want a different take on the subject you know there's hundreds of other sources where you can easily find them.
> about your censorship of messages and points of view
> that you dislike or disagree with
The list isn't a magazine. There are important differences, but there is the aspect of keeping the ideas focused on what supports human relationships and learning. There's the aspect of *using* that focus to filter out the ideas the "editors" believe won't. Not everyone will filter with the same criteria the long time posters use. BUT NO ONE IS LIMITED TO THIS FORUM BY SIGNING ON. If you want more ideas, they're out there!
The problem lies in people assuming this is a social group where *everyone* trades ideas.
The problem lies in not being able to explain what the list is instead of a social group before people jump in and get hurt. But it's not for lack of trying!
The best way to learn what something is isn't to depend on someone else to tell you what it is. It's to try it out! See if you like it. If you don't, find something else.
That's the foundation of unschooling! It's how humans learn. It's how kids learn and what parents should be supporting.
One of the big problems with trying to explain this list is that most people didn't know this is what they wanted until they try it. There's nothing people are familiar with that will help them get what this list is before they try it. It's not a class. It's not a magazine. But it shares more with them than it does a support group.
> warn prospective new members about your censorshipThe above is a *profound* misuse of the word censorship. It's dismissive of the people in this world who truly are censored, who can't get their words out so others can hear or read them.
No where in the world can anyone say anything they want anywhere.
In the US everyone is free to create their own forum and put their words out for others to read. Yahoo. Facebook. Blogger. Twitter. Tumblr. You can print pamphlets and hand them out. And loads of others.
If you have ideas you believe are important for people to know that don't get through to the list, make your own forum. Invite people to read it.
That's not true in many countries. If someone's words can't appear in one place they *can't* go somewhere else. They are censored by the government.
What you're calling censorship is filtering. Filtering helps keep information focused. It's a *service* to people. As with a magazine, you find someone whose voice you like. If you don't like their voice, you find someone else. If you don't like any filtering, there's the whole wide world open to you.
Joyce
Joyce Fetteroll
On Feb 26, 2013, at 4:13 AM, alma wrote:
=====================
The list is about ideas, not about people.
Think of ideas like balls and the list like a ball court. If someone tosses an idea worth discussing into the court it's going to get batted about. At that point what's going on is no longer about the person who tossed the idea in. It's about the idea and how well and cleanly it's being tossed about. (Unless the tosser keeps jumping in and grabbing the idea ball saying "Mine!")
Joyce
=====================
Sandra has it preserved on her notes about her Always Learning list:
http://sandradodd.com/lists/alwayslearning
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> It was the tossing the tennis ball analogy that did it for meHere it is for those who haven't seen it:
=====================
The list is about ideas, not about people.
Think of ideas like balls and the list like a ball court. If someone tosses an idea worth discussing into the court it's going to get batted about. At that point what's going on is no longer about the person who tossed the idea in. It's about the idea and how well and cleanly it's being tossed about. (Unless the tosser keeps jumping in and grabbing the idea ball saying "Mine!")
Joyce
=====================
Sandra has it preserved on her notes about her Always Learning list:
http://sandradodd.com/lists/alwayslearning
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karen Swanay
The tennis ball idea is also what allowed me to really "get" it too. I
think it's worth being a part of the description. And FWIW, I love the
dragon thing but then I get the gaming humor.
*"Anecdotes ain't evidence" ~Savage*
think it's worth being a part of the description. And FWIW, I love the
dragon thing but then I get the gaming humor.
*"Anecdotes ain't evidence" ~Savage*
fundayeveryday
What if there were a quick blurb about: who the site is intended for, what to expect from the site, ,where to look for supporting info, when to expect changes, and how to begin unschooling:
Who: Parents who want to learn about a pleasing style of learning for their children as well as respectful parenting--a partnership of love with their children
What: The owners and other contributors of this site will provide ANALYTICAL and BLUNT, HONEST answers to your questions based on their passion and years of whole life unschooling.
Where: (Meredith Novak, Sandra Dodd, Joyce Fetteroll, et al.).
When: When you begin to look at your children as curious individuals with innate interests and a deep desire for your love, kindness, and guidance for learning.
When you see yourself as a partner to your child(ren) who they can trust and rely on for positive support of their interests, unconditional love, kindness, patience, and respect.
How: Take time to read posts here and at other suggested sites to 'absorb' the foundation of unschooling
Help your children by listening more, supporting their interests and choices and being present with them, understanding them.
Prepare to be enlightened by the knowledge received on this site; advice may challenge your current line of thinking and is not meant to be hurtful, but helpful.
-----------It's just an idea...I'm sure my choice of words may not be the best! I assume it will be pulled apart, but now that I am familiar with how this site works, it's all good =)
________________________________
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Who: Parents who want to learn about a pleasing style of learning for their children as well as respectful parenting--a partnership of love with their children
What: The owners and other contributors of this site will provide ANALYTICAL and BLUNT, HONEST answers to your questions based on their passion and years of whole life unschooling.
Where: (Meredith Novak, Sandra Dodd, Joyce Fetteroll, et al.).
When: When you begin to look at your children as curious individuals with innate interests and a deep desire for your love, kindness, and guidance for learning.
When you see yourself as a partner to your child(ren) who they can trust and rely on for positive support of their interests, unconditional love, kindness, patience, and respect.
How: Take time to read posts here and at other suggested sites to 'absorb' the foundation of unschooling
Help your children by listening more, supporting their interests and choices and being present with them, understanding them.
Prepare to be enlightened by the knowledge received on this site; advice may challenge your current line of thinking and is not meant to be hurtful, but helpful.
-----------It's just an idea...I'm sure my choice of words may not be the best! I assume it will be pulled apart, but now that I am familiar with how this site works, it's all good =)
________________________________
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
"Meredith" <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
Learning is a central human endeavor.
Learning is inextricably dependent on the perceptions and perspectives
of the individual.
Children are motivated by the same human needs, emotions, and responses as adults, including those related to learning.
Ahhhh. I feel better now.
---Meredith
>> People learn. People learn differently. Children are people.EEEEW! I can't believe I wrote something that wimpy. My apologies! It's been bugging me since I posted it, but I haven't been able to get to computer. I prefer something a little more like this:
Learning is a central human endeavor.
Learning is inextricably dependent on the perceptions and perspectives
of the individual.
Children are motivated by the same human needs, emotions, and responses as adults, including those related to learning.
Ahhhh. I feel better now.
---Meredith