socialization?
schooldzed
I have to ask this. My son is almost 14, refuses to leave his Minecraft and Brainpop to go out and meet people.
He's very very VERY awkward due to his Aspergers and I'm very concerned about getting him out there.
All of his friends (two of them) have pretty much disappeared and I feel terrible for him!!!
I know he can be difficult, but he's just a little boy with the same desires and needs as any other. He's just in a different "world" and most/all don't understand that.
Any ideas out there? We are in the Lexington SC area.
TIA!
He's very very VERY awkward due to his Aspergers and I'm very concerned about getting him out there.
All of his friends (two of them) have pretty much disappeared and I feel terrible for him!!!
I know he can be difficult, but he's just a little boy with the same desires and needs as any other. He's just in a different "world" and most/all don't understand that.
Any ideas out there? We are in the Lexington SC area.
TIA!
Meredith
"schooldzed" <gretchen@...> wrote:
Does he meet people online? The internet can be such a marvelous resource for connecting with people who have similar interests. Lots of people make friends over the internet these days. My dad met his second wife over the internet, so I've learned to take online relationships seriously ;)
Are there chances for your son to meet his online friend in person?
I was socially awkward for years - decades! I have a number of friends who were also very awkward when they were young, some of whom still are, and yet they do have people who they care about who care about them, friends and loves and spouses. Some have found their communities online, others through friends.
Is he pining for "irl" friends? Or is it you who are worried?
Here's something to consider when you do take him out - can he bring a laptop or hand-held game along? Or a book if he likes to read. You might not have considered that if you were taking him out for "socialization" but having a game or movie along has been a big, big tool for my daughter in terms of meeting people. She can "hide" behind her thing, focus on the content when she gets overwhelmed by a crowd, and come out slowly, easing in to things. She's met a couple friends this way - once finding a fellow hiding behind a game of his own and gently striking up a conversation with him about the game itself.
---Meredith
>***************
> I have to ask this. My son is almost 14, refuses to leave his Minecraft and Brainpop to go out and meet people.
Does he meet people online? The internet can be such a marvelous resource for connecting with people who have similar interests. Lots of people make friends over the internet these days. My dad met his second wife over the internet, so I've learned to take online relationships seriously ;)
Are there chances for your son to meet his online friend in person?
> He's very very VERY awkward due to his Aspergers and I'm very concerned about getting him out there.****************
I was socially awkward for years - decades! I have a number of friends who were also very awkward when they were young, some of whom still are, and yet they do have people who they care about who care about them, friends and loves and spouses. Some have found their communities online, others through friends.
Is he pining for "irl" friends? Or is it you who are worried?
>>He's just in a different "world" and most/all don't understand that.More than you think! But the way he's going to meet people with whom he can connect is going to be by doing things he enjoys and finding others who enjoy the same interests. He's not likely to meet other geeks at a baseball game or mall, and the sorts of places he might meet people with similar interests (anime and comic conventions, for instance) may be too overwhelming for him, depending on how he handles crowds of people he doesn't know in a new environment.
Here's something to consider when you do take him out - can he bring a laptop or hand-held game along? Or a book if he likes to read. You might not have considered that if you were taking him out for "socialization" but having a game or movie along has been a big, big tool for my daughter in terms of meeting people. She can "hide" behind her thing, focus on the content when she gets overwhelmed by a crowd, and come out slowly, easing in to things. She's met a couple friends this way - once finding a fellow hiding behind a game of his own and gently striking up a conversation with him about the game itself.
---Meredith
Alex Polikowsy
Yes Meredith! Right now at the Unschooling Gamers list peoe are talking about meeting in person with friends they made by playing games!
The ones who already have met wrote that it was great and some are making plans!
I met my husband online and we have been together for 12 years In a couple of weeks. We have met several wonderful unschooling families in real life because of the internet. Many local friends too!
I remember at around 12 and 13 I had only one close friend and I spent many of my time reading ! At 13 I got into dog shows because of a neighbor and my friends became mostly adults! They are still friends today and in touch tha nks to the Internet!
Sent from my iPhone
The ones who already have met wrote that it was great and some are making plans!
I met my husband online and we have been together for 12 years In a couple of weeks. We have met several wonderful unschooling families in real life because of the internet. Many local friends too!
I remember at around 12 and 13 I had only one close friend and I spent many of my time reading ! At 13 I got into dog shows because of a neighbor and my friends became mostly adults! They are still friends today and in touch tha nks to the Internet!
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 27, 2012, at 12:12 PM, "Meredith" <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
> "schooldzed" <gretchen@...> wrote:
> >
> > I have to ask this. My son is almost 14, refuses to leave his Minecraft and Brainpop to go out and meet people.
> ***************
>
> Does he meet people online? The internet can be such a marvelous resource for connecting with people who have similar interests. Lots of people make friends over the internet these days. My dad met his second wife over the internet, so I've learned to take online relationships seriously ;)
>
> Are there chances for your son to meet his online friend in person?
>
> > He's very very VERY awkward due to his Aspergers and I'm very concerned about getting him out there.
> ****************
>
> I was socially awkward for years - decades! I have a number of friends who were also very awkward when they were young, some of whom still are, and yet they do have people who they care about who care about them, friends and loves and spouses. Some have found their communities online, others through friends.
>
> Is he pining for "irl" friends? Or is it you who are worried?
>
> >>He's just in a different "world" and most/all don't understand that.
>
> More than you think! But the way he's going to meet people with whom he can connect is going to be by doing things he enjoys and finding others who enjoy the same interests. He's not likely to meet other geeks at a baseball game or mall, and the sorts of places he might meet people with similar interests (anime and comic conventions, for instance) may be too overwhelming for him, depending on how he handles crowds of people he doesn't know in a new environment.
>
> Here's something to consider when you do take him out - can he bring a laptop or hand-held game along? Or a book if he likes to read. You might not have considered that if you were taking him out for "socialization" but having a game or movie along has been a big, big tool for my daughter in terms of meeting people. She can "hide" behind her thing, focus on the content when she gets overwhelmed by a crowd, and come out slowly, easing in to things. She's met a couple friends this way - once finding a fellow hiding behind a game of his own and gently striking up a conversation with him about the game itself.
>
> ---Meredith
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Susan Lervold
My son (14) met his current best friend playing Xbox. With a little
planning, his friend, Luis (15), took his first bus trip (nine hours!) to
come visit us; today's the last day of his two-week visit. It has been
wonderful, and the boys have already planned another trip in the winter.
Did your parents find your friends for you? Kids will make friends when
they need friends. They need to have their own motivation. I know it's hard
to have that faith (I can very much relate to your worry!), but everyone
will be happier when you allow your son the room to be who he is.
I just wanted to let you know that unconventional things can.and do.happen
all the time.
Cheers--
Susan
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
planning, his friend, Luis (15), took his first bus trip (nine hours!) to
come visit us; today's the last day of his two-week visit. It has been
wonderful, and the boys have already planned another trip in the winter.
Did your parents find your friends for you? Kids will make friends when
they need friends. They need to have their own motivation. I know it's hard
to have that faith (I can very much relate to your worry!), but everyone
will be happier when you allow your son the room to be who he is.
I just wanted to let you know that unconventional things can.and do.happen
all the time.
Cheers--
Susan
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sarah Taylor
I have a question that sort of goes along with this. My daughter just
turned 13 and she has expressed a desire to make friends (in real life)
with people with common interests as her. Her main interests are: Wolves,
drawing wolves, talking about wolves etc, the Warrior Cats book series and
role playing in a Warrior Cats online environment. She loves deviantart and
has made some friendships on there, but to me they aren't necessarily
healthy friendships. For instance, she made friends with a boy who talked
about legal trouble he had been in previously, and when she didn't get on
the computer for approximately a week, he had sent her messages alluding to
contemplating suicide because she had "abandoned" him. My daughter has
generalized anxiety, and being on this site causes her anxiety to spike
(from people like this boy, to people critiquing her artwork, etc.) My
question is: How do I handle these issues? How can I help ensure she's not
communicating with unsafe people without invading her privacy? We've tried
meet up groups but it seems like most people that attend have younger
children, and she really wants friends closer to her own age. Also, she has
a nook e-reader and because you have to have a credit card to buy books,
it's registered with my e-mail address and card number so I can't help but
see what books she's purchasing. Some of these titles are by authors of
hard core erotica. Should I say anything to her about her choice of reading
material? On the one hand I feel like I shouldn't because I don't want to
make her feel embarrassed about her emerging sexuality, but on the other
hand, some of these books have themes that are...envelope pushing? I don't
want her getting the idea that this is, typical, for lack of a better word
sexual interaction.. UGH! I guess I just need some advice on any or all of
this. This is my oldest child so this is the first time I'm dealing with
all of this. Thanks to everyone who has ideas :)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
turned 13 and she has expressed a desire to make friends (in real life)
with people with common interests as her. Her main interests are: Wolves,
drawing wolves, talking about wolves etc, the Warrior Cats book series and
role playing in a Warrior Cats online environment. She loves deviantart and
has made some friendships on there, but to me they aren't necessarily
healthy friendships. For instance, she made friends with a boy who talked
about legal trouble he had been in previously, and when she didn't get on
the computer for approximately a week, he had sent her messages alluding to
contemplating suicide because she had "abandoned" him. My daughter has
generalized anxiety, and being on this site causes her anxiety to spike
(from people like this boy, to people critiquing her artwork, etc.) My
question is: How do I handle these issues? How can I help ensure she's not
communicating with unsafe people without invading her privacy? We've tried
meet up groups but it seems like most people that attend have younger
children, and she really wants friends closer to her own age. Also, she has
a nook e-reader and because you have to have a credit card to buy books,
it's registered with my e-mail address and card number so I can't help but
see what books she's purchasing. Some of these titles are by authors of
hard core erotica. Should I say anything to her about her choice of reading
material? On the one hand I feel like I shouldn't because I don't want to
make her feel embarrassed about her emerging sexuality, but on the other
hand, some of these books have themes that are...envelope pushing? I don't
want her getting the idea that this is, typical, for lack of a better word
sexual interaction.. UGH! I guess I just need some advice on any or all of
this. This is my oldest child so this is the first time I'm dealing with
all of this. Thanks to everyone who has ideas :)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
Sarah Taylor <bdb1978@...> wrote:
Most novels written for women contain a certain amount of sex - some of it pretty over the top in one way or another. When I was 11 I was in a "girls book club" over the summer where we read books off our moms shelves - read the sex scenes out loud to each other in shocked giggles: can you believe my Mom reads this? Some of the sex was graphic, some was trashy... some of the metaphors were eyerollingly bad even then.
And keep in mind that fantasy isn't reality. A smutty novel isn't an instruction book any more than a crime novel ;)
---Meredith
>MyYou can't "ensure" - that's one of the scary things about kids growing up and meeting other people. You can set the stage for open conversations with your kids and do what little you can to help them navigate the tougher social situation, or they'll go behind your back and you don't get any input at all.
> question is: How do I handle these issues? How can I help ensure she's not
> communicating with unsafe people without invading her privacy?
>> Some of these titles are by authors ofWould you want her critiquing Your sexual fantasies?
> hard core erotica. Should I say anything to her about her choice of reading
> material?
Most novels written for women contain a certain amount of sex - some of it pretty over the top in one way or another. When I was 11 I was in a "girls book club" over the summer where we read books off our moms shelves - read the sex scenes out loud to each other in shocked giggles: can you believe my Mom reads this? Some of the sex was graphic, some was trashy... some of the metaphors were eyerollingly bad even then.
>> I don'tThe best way for her to avoid that idea is to read more, not less. That's a better way for her to get a sense of variety.
> want her getting the idea that this is, typical,
And keep in mind that fantasy isn't reality. A smutty novel isn't an instruction book any more than a crime novel ;)
---Meredith
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jul 31, 2012, at 2:20 PM, Sarah Taylor wrote:
A place with not-so-wonderful people isn't bad unless it's the only option. The more options she has, the less she'll need to hang around places with people who make her uncomfortable.
I know some DeviantArt people are using Tumblr. I think there are channels to subscribe to so it's easier for people with common interests to find each other.
There are also groups around the internet, especially for Warrior Cats. You might try reading in some of the Warrior Cats groups on Deviant Art or just searching on line to see what's recommended.
Be her resource rather than her problem solver.
At 13 she's growing more into needing you for advice rather than to physically do things for her. These are complex social issues which need a lot of practice. The great thing about the internet is she can practice without being in any danger.
Have you read Parent/Teen Breakthrough: The relationship approach by Mira Kirshenbaum:
http://tinyurl.com/23rhfms
It should be essential reading for every parent before their kids become teens :-D
I think parents tend to picture that strangers must be inherently drawing if they're able to lure kids into meeting with them.
But what predators have is the ability to suss out kids needs that the parents are refusing to meet. A stranger with candy isn't dangerous if a kid's life is full of easily available candy. If a stranger is offering understanding or what you refuse to support your kids in exploring, you're making your kids vulnerable.
The most dangerous phrase a child can hear from a stranger is "I understand." (An "I understand," that's NOT followed by a "but"!) A parent can suck the power out of a stranger's use of that phrase by using it themselves and by having the child trust that's true.
After observing it for those years, it all feels very natural. It usually starts with animal characters and progresses to humans with animal features and onto humans. It even explores boys love themes. Seen causally from the outside it's shocking. Seeing it in the context of what else the kids are doing, it seems totally and completely natural.
Getting to know your kids, being their support system, can help you see a bigger picture and be less worried about these odd things that poke up ;-) They look much less odd in the full context.
What if she were ordering books about horses? What would you do? How would you support her? Well, you might want to take her to a horse show but might not want to take her to a sex show! ;-) But the point is to not wash over her interest with worry and judgement. She'll see you as someone her interests aren't safe with and hide the parts she thinks you'll make judgements about! Her interests are part of who she is.
There are books on sexuality that she might be interested in. I'm sure members here can recommend some their kids liked, but it's also easy enough to search Amazon and read through the reviews.
The Scarleteen site is really good:
http://www.scarleteen.com
A really good program that's run by the Unitarian Universalists and The United Church of Christ is Our Whole Lives, a sexuality program. (There are several editions of the program divided up by age groups.) The UU program is presented without the God component, the UCC program adds the Christian point of view. (They developed it together so that part is removable or addable so it doesn't feel like there are holes or something's been tacked on.) There is rigorous training the leaders go through so they know how to present it to the age groups and how to handle the issues that come up.
You might want to check in your area if either church offers it. While kids initially feel awkward, I haven't heard a single kid not think it's wonderful by the end. :-)
Did you have favorites when you were younger? Bodice busters maybe? You might want to share them with her.
http://sandradodd.com/sex
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> She loves deviantart andThe less stellar ones may be worth putting up with to talk to the ones she does like.
> has made some friendships on there, but to me they aren't necessarily
> healthy friendships.
A place with not-so-wonderful people isn't bad unless it's the only option. The more options she has, the less she'll need to hang around places with people who make her uncomfortable.
I know some DeviantArt people are using Tumblr. I think there are channels to subscribe to so it's easier for people with common interests to find each other.
There are also groups around the internet, especially for Warrior Cats. You might try reading in some of the Warrior Cats groups on Deviant Art or just searching on line to see what's recommended.
> For instance, she made friends with a boy who talkedIt can help to stay connected to her feelings but detach from the problem. Help her with ideas, and strategies for dealing with such encounters. They'll be skills she can use throughout life -- but let her decide how to handle it. (In addition to handling it emotionally and how to respond, dA has ways to block people. She can also hide any comments she doesn't want to see.)
> about legal trouble he had been in previously, and when she didn't get on
> the computer for approximately a week, he had sent her messages alluding to
> contemplating suicide because she had "abandoned" him.
Be her resource rather than her problem solver.
> My daughter hasHow does she want you to?
> generalized anxiety, and being on this site causes her anxiety to spike
> (from people like this boy, to people critiquing her artwork, etc.) My
> question is: How do I handle these issues?
At 13 she's growing more into needing you for advice rather than to physically do things for her. These are complex social issues which need a lot of practice. The great thing about the internet is she can practice without being in any danger.
Have you read Parent/Teen Breakthrough: The relationship approach by Mira Kirshenbaum:
http://tinyurl.com/23rhfms
It should be essential reading for every parent before their kids become teens :-D
> How can I help ensure she's notWhat could "unsafe" people offer her that you can't?
> communicating with unsafe people without invading her privacy?
I think parents tend to picture that strangers must be inherently drawing if they're able to lure kids into meeting with them.
But what predators have is the ability to suss out kids needs that the parents are refusing to meet. A stranger with candy isn't dangerous if a kid's life is full of easily available candy. If a stranger is offering understanding or what you refuse to support your kids in exploring, you're making your kids vulnerable.
The most dangerous phrase a child can hear from a stranger is "I understand." (An "I understand," that's NOT followed by a "but"!) A parent can suck the power out of a stranger's use of that phrase by using it themselves and by having the child trust that's true.
> We've triedHave you tried starting up a group yourself? You could advertise a Warrior Cats group on your local email list. A local family started a Friday night movie night. She got it started but then the kids picked the movie for the next time themselves. They had discussions about it.
> meet up groups but it seems like most people that attend have younger
> children, and she really wants friends closer to her own age.
> Also, she hasHaving been on DeviantArt for a couple of years, I'm still surprised at how young some kids are when they start exploring sexual themes in their writing and art (even though no one's supposed to be under 18 on there ;-)
> a nook e-reader and because you have to have a credit card to buy books,
> it's registered with my e-mail address and card number so I can't help but
> see what books she's purchasing. Some of these titles are by authors of
> hard core erotica. Should I say anything to her about her choice of reading
> material?
After observing it for those years, it all feels very natural. It usually starts with animal characters and progresses to humans with animal features and onto humans. It even explores boys love themes. Seen causally from the outside it's shocking. Seeing it in the context of what else the kids are doing, it seems totally and completely natural.
Getting to know your kids, being their support system, can help you see a bigger picture and be less worried about these odd things that poke up ;-) They look much less odd in the full context.
> On the one hand I feel like I shouldn't because I don't want toRather than being concerned about what she's reading see it as an interest. You can offer resources to expand on it.
> make her feel embarrassed about her emerging sexuality, but on the other
> hand, some of these books have themes that are...envelope pushing?
What if she were ordering books about horses? What would you do? How would you support her? Well, you might want to take her to a horse show but might not want to take her to a sex show! ;-) But the point is to not wash over her interest with worry and judgement. She'll see you as someone her interests aren't safe with and hide the parts she thinks you'll make judgements about! Her interests are part of who she is.
There are books on sexuality that she might be interested in. I'm sure members here can recommend some their kids liked, but it's also easy enough to search Amazon and read through the reviews.
The Scarleteen site is really good:
http://www.scarleteen.com
A really good program that's run by the Unitarian Universalists and The United Church of Christ is Our Whole Lives, a sexuality program. (There are several editions of the program divided up by age groups.) The UU program is presented without the God component, the UCC program adds the Christian point of view. (They developed it together so that part is removable or addable so it doesn't feel like there are holes or something's been tacked on.) There is rigorous training the leaders go through so they know how to present it to the age groups and how to handle the issues that come up.
You might want to check in your area if either church offers it. While kids initially feel awkward, I haven't heard a single kid not think it's wonderful by the end. :-)
> I don'tI definitely understand that. *If* these were the only books she had available, she'd be building an image of sexuality from a skewed base. But it sounds like she has a whole bookstore to choose from and that's what she's choosing.
> want her getting the idea that this is, typical, for lack of a better word
> sexual interaction..
Did you have favorites when you were younger? Bodice busters maybe? You might want to share them with her.
> UGH! I guess I just need some advice on any or all ofSandra Dodd has a good page on sex and kids with some good links and approaches she's been gathering from unschoolers:
> this. This is my oldest child so this is the first time I'm dealing with
> all of this. Thanks to everyone who has ideas :)
http://sandradodd.com/sex
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sarahrandom78
"Would you want her critiquing Your sexual fantasies? "
No, I would not. This wouldn't be me critiquing her sexual fantasies. What I'm asking here is whether I should bring up a discussion of what she's reading at all, in any capacity. I don't want to say "Hey, how was that book about the menage? Is it something you would recommend?" And have her be embarrassed. I also don't want her to feel like she has to hide what she's reading, or feel ashamed of it. Our talks thus far about sex have been WAY open. I guess I just feel a little lost here. She has said she skips the "cozy" parts (her words, not mine), and I've said "Why would you do that?" Jokingly, as if I can't understand why ANYONE would skip the good parts. She just shrugs. Now I'm not stupid, I don't believe she is really skipping these parts, she is more likely just embarrassed about me knowing what she's reading. I'm not trying to say she can't read this, or I forbid it, but previously when she's bought a book, I'll ask her how it was, or what it was about, because I'm genuinely curious and that is one of the very few things (reading) that we have in common, but when I see authors who's work I'm familiar with, like this new stuff she's bought, that's where I'm stumped. I just don't know how to approach it.
"Most novels written for women contain a certain amount of sex"
Yes, especially the novels I read. The more the better in my opinion. I also read lots of stuff that is pretty out there, I believe it's in the open-minded section on my nook. I'm also 33. I have no problem with her exploring her sexuality in this venue (and really, would it even matter if I did? Probably not.) in fact I think it's perfectly normal and healthy. I guess part of me is just a little worried. As I've said numerous times on this list, my daughter has an anxiety disorder. Part of my underlying fear is that she will read some of these books, get the idea that this stuff is the norm, and it will make her fear yet one more thing in life. Or make her worry that that is how sex actually is, but will be afraid to ask.
No, I would not. This wouldn't be me critiquing her sexual fantasies. What I'm asking here is whether I should bring up a discussion of what she's reading at all, in any capacity. I don't want to say "Hey, how was that book about the menage? Is it something you would recommend?" And have her be embarrassed. I also don't want her to feel like she has to hide what she's reading, or feel ashamed of it. Our talks thus far about sex have been WAY open. I guess I just feel a little lost here. She has said she skips the "cozy" parts (her words, not mine), and I've said "Why would you do that?" Jokingly, as if I can't understand why ANYONE would skip the good parts. She just shrugs. Now I'm not stupid, I don't believe she is really skipping these parts, she is more likely just embarrassed about me knowing what she's reading. I'm not trying to say she can't read this, or I forbid it, but previously when she's bought a book, I'll ask her how it was, or what it was about, because I'm genuinely curious and that is one of the very few things (reading) that we have in common, but when I see authors who's work I'm familiar with, like this new stuff she's bought, that's where I'm stumped. I just don't know how to approach it.
"Most novels written for women contain a certain amount of sex"
Yes, especially the novels I read. The more the better in my opinion. I also read lots of stuff that is pretty out there, I believe it's in the open-minded section on my nook. I'm also 33. I have no problem with her exploring her sexuality in this venue (and really, would it even matter if I did? Probably not.) in fact I think it's perfectly normal and healthy. I guess part of me is just a little worried. As I've said numerous times on this list, my daughter has an anxiety disorder. Part of my underlying fear is that she will read some of these books, get the idea that this stuff is the norm, and it will make her fear yet one more thing in life. Or make her worry that that is how sex actually is, but will be afraid to ask.
--- In [email protected], "Meredith" <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
>
> Sarah Taylor <bdb1978@> wrote:
> >My
> > question is: How do I handle these issues? How can I help ensure she's not
> > communicating with unsafe people without invading her privacy?
>
> You can't "ensure" - that's one of the scary things about kids growing up and meeting other people. You can set the stage for open conversations with your kids and do what little you can to help them navigate the tougher social situation, or they'll go behind your back and you don't get any input at all.
>
> >> Some of these titles are by authors of
> > hard core erotica. Should I say anything to her about her choice of reading
> > material?
>
> Would you want her critiquing Your sexual fantasies?
> Most novels written for women contain a certain amount of sex - some of it pretty over the top in one way or another. When I was 11 I was in a "girls book club" over the summer where we read books off our moms shelves - read the sex scenes out loud to each other in shocked giggles: can you believe my Mom reads this? Some of the sex was graphic, some was trashy... some of the metaphors were eyerollingly bad even then.
>
> >> I don't
> > want her getting the idea that this is, typical,
>
> The best way for her to avoid that idea is to read more, not less. That's a better way for her to get a sense of variety.
>
> And keep in mind that fantasy isn't reality. A smutty novel isn't an instruction book any more than a crime novel ;)
>
> ---Meredith
>
Joyce Fetteroll
On Aug 9, 2012, at 4:49 AM, sarahrandom78 wrote:
If she's choosing freely and has lots to choose from, the fear seems irrational. The books don't feel real. Even if they're in a modern setting.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Part of my underlying fear is that she will read some of these books,Our sense of norm comes from home then from real people around us. Stories are lower down on our trust lists. She will hear vanilla sex mentioned far more than any other kind -- in jokes and off hand remarks. The reactions to it will be different than to more unusual sex.
> get the idea that this stuff is the norm, and it will make her fear yet one more thing in life.
If she's choosing freely and has lots to choose from, the fear seems irrational. The books don't feel real. Even if they're in a modern setting.
> I don't want to say "Hey, how was that book about the menage?You could share some of yours that you feel comfortable sharing. And then ask about those. If she feels comfortable sharing what she's finding with you then she will.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sarahrandom78
"If she's choosing freely and has lots to choose from, the fear seems irrational. The books don't feel real. Even if they're in a modern setting."
See this is yet another reason why I have this problem. To her, books are real. She reads the warrior cat books and she wants to BE those cats. She BELIEVES our own cats have human feelings. To a point beyond, they are hungry or sad. She actually said something yesterday about thinking it was weird that some people on Deviant Art (friends of hers I guess) are not even attracted to humans, but to animals instead. She then said she went through a phase where she felt that way, but says she doesn't anymore. HOWEVER she does believe her cat is attracted to her. I got the very distinct impression she was feeling me out to see if I thought it was weird or normal. My only reaction was to say that it was illegal to have "that" sort of relationship with an animal. At this point in time it doesn't seem irrational to me, I have a real fear based on things she is actually saying to me. Even for me, being uber open minded about sex, I still don't understand being attracted to animals. She has access to every book out there, but she routinely chooses books about animals (like the warrior cats, where they have human type personalities). Even the romance books she chooses always include a wolf, or other sort of shape shifting animal. I know you had said something previously about kids going from animals, to animals with human characteristics, and then on to humans, I believe in response to exploring sexual themes. This is a little different as it actually seems to be an attraction to animals, or the perception that an animal is attracted to her. She will not get dressed in front of her cat because he's male. I'm not kidding.. Maybe this is something she will outgrow, I have no idea. It worries me to the point that I think maybe I should mention it to a therapist. She has said repeatedly that she's just not into boys yet, (her friend is boy crazy and she was saying that they don't have that much in common because she's not really into boys yet) but her reading material would suggest otherwise. I do know that she has told me she thinks she is bisexual, and that's fine with me and I told her so.
"You could share some of yours that you feel comfortable sharing. And then ask about those. If she feels comfortable sharing what she's finding with you then she will."
Do you mean some of the romance/erotica books I read? Or just some of the books I read outside of that genre? I don't think I would feel comfortable with sharing the type of romance books I read, but I do share other genres already. I read the Hunger Games trilogy back before it was popular (otherwise I'm sure she would have heard about it on her own) and I told her how awesome it was and suggested she read it. She loved it too, couldn't wait for the movie to come out, and even wanted a bow and arrow for Christmas,(she got one) I also suggested Incarceron, which she also loved. However she never chooses those sorts of books herself. She does share some of her books with me, like the warrior cats series, and a few others. They're hard for me to read because they are very uninteresting to me, but I do my best so I can try to share in her enthusiasm.
"Our sense of norm comes from home then from real people around us."
Exactly what I'm afraid of ;)
See this is yet another reason why I have this problem. To her, books are real. She reads the warrior cat books and she wants to BE those cats. She BELIEVES our own cats have human feelings. To a point beyond, they are hungry or sad. She actually said something yesterday about thinking it was weird that some people on Deviant Art (friends of hers I guess) are not even attracted to humans, but to animals instead. She then said she went through a phase where she felt that way, but says she doesn't anymore. HOWEVER she does believe her cat is attracted to her. I got the very distinct impression she was feeling me out to see if I thought it was weird or normal. My only reaction was to say that it was illegal to have "that" sort of relationship with an animal. At this point in time it doesn't seem irrational to me, I have a real fear based on things she is actually saying to me. Even for me, being uber open minded about sex, I still don't understand being attracted to animals. She has access to every book out there, but she routinely chooses books about animals (like the warrior cats, where they have human type personalities). Even the romance books she chooses always include a wolf, or other sort of shape shifting animal. I know you had said something previously about kids going from animals, to animals with human characteristics, and then on to humans, I believe in response to exploring sexual themes. This is a little different as it actually seems to be an attraction to animals, or the perception that an animal is attracted to her. She will not get dressed in front of her cat because he's male. I'm not kidding.. Maybe this is something she will outgrow, I have no idea. It worries me to the point that I think maybe I should mention it to a therapist. She has said repeatedly that she's just not into boys yet, (her friend is boy crazy and she was saying that they don't have that much in common because she's not really into boys yet) but her reading material would suggest otherwise. I do know that she has told me she thinks she is bisexual, and that's fine with me and I told her so.
"You could share some of yours that you feel comfortable sharing. And then ask about those. If she feels comfortable sharing what she's finding with you then she will."
Do you mean some of the romance/erotica books I read? Or just some of the books I read outside of that genre? I don't think I would feel comfortable with sharing the type of romance books I read, but I do share other genres already. I read the Hunger Games trilogy back before it was popular (otherwise I'm sure she would have heard about it on her own) and I told her how awesome it was and suggested she read it. She loved it too, couldn't wait for the movie to come out, and even wanted a bow and arrow for Christmas,(she got one) I also suggested Incarceron, which she also loved. However she never chooses those sorts of books herself. She does share some of her books with me, like the warrior cats series, and a few others. They're hard for me to read because they are very uninteresting to me, but I do my best so I can try to share in her enthusiasm.
"Our sense of norm comes from home then from real people around us."
Exactly what I'm afraid of ;)
--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Aug 9, 2012, at 4:49 AM, sarahrandom78 wrote:
>
> > Part of my underlying fear is that she will read some of these books,
> > get the idea that this stuff is the norm, and it will make her fear yet one more thing in life.
>
>
> Our sense of norm comes from home then from real people around us. Stories are lower down on our trust lists. She will hear vanilla sex mentioned far more than any other kind -- in jokes and off hand remarks. The reactions to it will be different than to more unusual sex.
>
> If she's choosing freely and has lots to choose from, the fear seems irrational. The books don't feel real. Even if they're in a modern setting.
>
> > I don't want to say "Hey, how was that book about the menage?
>
> You could share some of yours that you feel comfortable sharing. And then ask about those. If she feels comfortable sharing what she's finding with you then she will.
>
> Joyce
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Joyce Fetteroll
On Aug 9, 2012, at 11:09 AM, sarahrandom78 wrote:
She had fortunately uploaded some old art at Deviantart that's anthro, which she identified as being from 2007 so she was 15 then.
http://zombiepencil.deviantart.com/art/Old-Art-Mishee-108612980
When she was 16 she was transitioning to humans. By 17 she was fully into humans.
Though the sex aspect wasn't part of her interests -- she's a late bloomer as was I -- I do see it a lot in what her peers are doing.
I would do less worrying and do more looking. Look at what her peers are doing on Deviantart. Not to snoop but to get a sense of what's going on.
There's a good article on Wikipedia about the furry fandom that touches on the sexual aspect.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furry
There are furry and anthro (and they have wars about those two not being the same ;-) groups at Deviantart. There are website devoted to it. There are online comics. It may not necessarily ease your worries but knowing how huge it is might help :-)
There are also furry conventions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_furry_conventions
Maybe she'd like to go to one.
I *definitely* remember up through 17 not wanting to undress in front of the pictures of rock guys I had on my walls.
Once I hit college it faded.
Which isn't to say she isn't but don't be surprised if she goes through several phases.
Though it would be understandable if you weren't comfortable. And perhaps understandable why *she's* not comfortable sharing with you. Some things really are private.
I hope you don't think I'm saying to ignore your instincts. Only that it can help to find out more about what she's interested in from those who are interested in it to get a more accurate baseline.
Joyce
> She has access to every book out there, but she routinelyYes, my daughter was definitely anti-human for quite a while. She wanted to be a cat.
> chooses books about animals (like the warrior cats,
> where they have human type personalities).
She had fortunately uploaded some old art at Deviantart that's anthro, which she identified as being from 2007 so she was 15 then.
http://zombiepencil.deviantart.com/art/Old-Art-Mishee-108612980
When she was 16 she was transitioning to humans. By 17 she was fully into humans.
Though the sex aspect wasn't part of her interests -- she's a late bloomer as was I -- I do see it a lot in what her peers are doing.
I would do less worrying and do more looking. Look at what her peers are doing on Deviantart. Not to snoop but to get a sense of what's going on.
There's a good article on Wikipedia about the furry fandom that touches on the sexual aspect.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furry
There are furry and anthro (and they have wars about those two not being the same ;-) groups at Deviantart. There are website devoted to it. There are online comics. It may not necessarily ease your worries but knowing how huge it is might help :-)
There are also furry conventions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_furry_conventions
Maybe she'd like to go to one.
> Even the romance books she chooses always include a wolf, or other sort of shape shifting animal.Wolves and cats and foxes seem to be the favorites!
> She will not get dressed in front of her cat because he's male. I'm not kidding..I believe I remember feeling weird about undressing in front of my cat!
I *definitely* remember up through 17 not wanting to undress in front of the pictures of rock guys I had on my walls.
Once I hit college it faded.
> I do know that she has told me she thinks she is bisexual, and that's fine with me and I told her so.I think not knowing is very common. I watched one of my daughter's friends go from a confirmed-and-proud-of-it lesbian at 14 to love doesn't care what sex you are to dating guys at 17.
Which isn't to say she isn't but don't be surprised if she goes through several phases.
> Do you mean some of the romance/erotica books I read?Yes, if you felt comfortable. If it was something you sincerely wanted to share and not something you wanted her to read instead of what she is reading.
Though it would be understandable if you weren't comfortable. And perhaps understandable why *she's* not comfortable sharing with you. Some things really are private.
I hope you don't think I'm saying to ignore your instincts. Only that it can help to find out more about what she's interested in from those who are interested in it to get a more accurate baseline.
Joyce
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
OH MY!'
I still love romance books where the characters shape shift!
I loved Dragon Bound ( lots of hot sex) and up until I was 16-17 I too was not into humans
at all.
Actually when I was younger than 14 I used to say I would save an animal before I saved a human!
Now I would not even think something like that.
I am now 46 and happily married, unschooling 2 wonderful kids.
I have a very healthy relationship with sex ( HA!)
I still love to read my books and travel in my mind to a world of fantasy.
Alex Polikowsky
________________________________
From: Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2012 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] socialization?
I still love romance books where the characters shape shift!
I loved Dragon Bound ( lots of hot sex) and up until I was 16-17 I too was not into humans
at all.
Actually when I was younger than 14 I used to say I would save an animal before I saved a human!
Now I would not even think something like that.
I am now 46 and happily married, unschooling 2 wonderful kids.
I have a very healthy relationship with sex ( HA!)
I still love to read my books and travel in my mind to a world of fantasy.
Alex Polikowsky
________________________________
From: Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2012 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] socialization?
On Aug 9, 2012, at 11:09 AM, sarahrandom78 wrote:
> She has access to every book out there, but she routinely
> chooses books about animals (like the warrior cats,
> where they have human type personalities).
Yes, my daughter was definitely anti-human for quite a while. She wanted to be a cat.
She had fortunately uploaded some old art at Deviantart that's anthro, which she identified as being from 2007 so she was 15 then.
http://zombiepencil.deviantart.com/art/Old-Art-Mishee-108612980
When she was 16 she was transitioning to humans. By 17 she was fully into humans.
Though the sex aspect wasn't part of her interests -- she's a late bloomer as was I -- I do see it a lot in what her peers are doing.
I would do less worrying and do more looking. Look at what her peers are doing on Deviantart. Not to snoop but to get a sense of what's going on.
There's a good article on Wikipedia about the furry fandom that touches on the sexual aspect.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furry
There are furry and anthro (and they have wars about those two not being the same ;-) groups at Deviantart. There are website devoted to it. There are online comics. It may not necessarily ease your worries but knowing how huge it is might help :-)
There are also furry conventions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_furry_conventions
Maybe she'd like to go to one.
> Even the romance books she chooses always include a wolf, or other sort of shape shifting animal.
Wolves and cats and foxes seem to be the favorites!
> She will not get dressed in front of her cat because he's male. I'm not kidding..
I believe I remember feeling weird about undressing in front of my cat!
I *definitely* remember up through 17 not wanting to undress in front of the pictures of rock guys I had on my walls.
Once I hit college it faded.
> I do know that she has told me she thinks she is bisexual, and that's fine with me and I told her so.
I think not knowing is very common. I watched one of my daughter's friends go from a confirmed-and-proud-of-it lesbian at 14 to love doesn't care what sex you are to dating guys at 17.
Which isn't to say she isn't but don't be surprised if she goes through several phases.
> Do you mean some of the romance/erotica books I read?
Yes, if you felt comfortable. If it was something you sincerely wanted to share and not something you wanted her to read instead of what she is reading.
Though it would be understandable if you weren't comfortable. And perhaps understandable why *she's* not comfortable sharing with you. Some things really are private.
I hope you don't think I'm saying to ignore your instincts. Only that it can help to find out more about what she's interested in from those who are interested in it to get a more accurate baseline.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
draconi_ann
I was going to reply to this specifically last time you mentioned it. I play WoW with my kids on a roleplay server. There has been a guild advertsing lately in Trade Chat that is based on the Warrior Cat series. I tried to find a website reference for them or a guild recruitment ad on the forums but couldn't...they may be too new. I don't know if your daughter plays WoW or not, but if she does she may be interested in joining this guild. She might enjoy being around other like-minded people roleplaying these cats. It's on Wyrmrest Accord.
~Michelle
~Michelle
--- In [email protected], "sarahrandom78" <bdb1978@...> wrote:
>She does share some of her books with me, like the warrior cats series, and a few others.
Meredith
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...> wrote:
It could also be helpful to think about the value of mythology, religion, folk tales, and rituals of all kinds. Think about animal-headed gods, gods and spirits who take the form of animals (or plants, or the wind...) to seduce humans or to offer them wisdom. Given the history of world religions, its not so unreasonable to be hesitant to undress in front of a cat... or even an iconic image (like a poster). In our modern world where we're so intent on separating "reality" from "fantasy" those seem like ideas to outgrow, but the modern pagan and earth-based spirituality movements are a testament to the fact that these aren't just the feelings and ideas of children or perverts.
---Meredith
>There is a reason shapeshifter/animal/monster/alien romance novels (or just fantasy novels with good steamy bits) are so popular!
> OH MY!'
>
> I still love romance books where the characters shape shift!
It could also be helpful to think about the value of mythology, religion, folk tales, and rituals of all kinds. Think about animal-headed gods, gods and spirits who take the form of animals (or plants, or the wind...) to seduce humans or to offer them wisdom. Given the history of world religions, its not so unreasonable to be hesitant to undress in front of a cat... or even an iconic image (like a poster). In our modern world where we're so intent on separating "reality" from "fantasy" those seem like ideas to outgrow, but the modern pagan and earth-based spirituality movements are a testament to the fact that these aren't just the feelings and ideas of children or perverts.
---Meredith