Questions about computer usage
T McAdams
Hello all,
My daughter is 11.5 and she spends most of her day online. She has two
social networking sites where she spends time, she listens to her music,
she is learning all sorts of things. I believe that she is fine tuning a
lot of different skills. She's learning to navigate new sites, post
pictures, find pictures online to post. She reads about her favorite music
artists and is generally in a state of learning, imho. Herein lies my
problem. I don't know how to convey this to my husband sot hat he sees what
she's doing as educational. He got very heated about it last night. I
stayed calm. I tried to explain to him all of what I thought she was
learning. Obviously, I didn't convey it in rich enough thought b/c he
called bullshit on everything I said. Do any of quick links that will do a
better job of explaining it than I do? What kind of advice do you have in
this situation? Thank you.
Kindly,
Tina
in South Florida
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My daughter is 11.5 and she spends most of her day online. She has two
social networking sites where she spends time, she listens to her music,
she is learning all sorts of things. I believe that she is fine tuning a
lot of different skills. She's learning to navigate new sites, post
pictures, find pictures online to post. She reads about her favorite music
artists and is generally in a state of learning, imho. Herein lies my
problem. I don't know how to convey this to my husband sot hat he sees what
she's doing as educational. He got very heated about it last night. I
stayed calm. I tried to explain to him all of what I thought she was
learning. Obviously, I didn't convey it in rich enough thought b/c he
called bullshit on everything I said. Do any of quick links that will do a
better job of explaining it than I do? What kind of advice do you have in
this situation? Thank you.
Kindly,
Tina
in South Florida
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Raw Shells
I'd be very interested in seeing information stating that a child being on
a computer all day is optimal for his/her development. There is, indeed, a
huge amount of information that implies the opposite..... Have you read
"Last Child in the Woods" by Richard Louv? Nature is essential for healthy
child development.
Lovingly,
Rachelle
a computer all day is optimal for his/her development. There is, indeed, a
huge amount of information that implies the opposite..... Have you read
"Last Child in the Woods" by Richard Louv? Nature is essential for healthy
child development.
Lovingly,
Rachelle
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 7:56 AM, T McAdams <tmcadams81670@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> Hello all,
>
> My daughter is 11.5 and she spends most of her day online. She has two
> social networking sites where she spends time, she listens to her music,
> she is learning all sorts of things. I believe that she is fine tuning a
> lot of different skills. She's learning to navigate new sites, post
> pictures, find pictures online to post. She reads about her favorite music
> artists and is generally in a state of learning, imho. Herein lies my
> problem. I don't know how to convey this to my husband sot hat he sees what
> she's doing as educational. He got very heated about it last night. I
> stayed calm. I tried to explain to him all of what I thought she was
> learning. Obviously, I didn't convey it in rich enough thought b/c he
> called bullshit on everything I said. Do any of quick links that will do a
> better job of explaining it than I do? What kind of advice do you have in
> this situation? Thank you.
>
> Kindly,
> Tina
> in South Florida
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
--
*Lovingly,
*Rachelle
*�When you teach a child something you take away forever his chance of
discovering it for himself.� ~ Jean Piaget*
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Amy Lemmon
We had a family member that was also concerned about my children who spend time online and their learning ... I put it back at them ... what do you think they should be learning about? After sometimes they came up with a very generic list: math, history, etc... and we filled in under each of these subjects the things that my children do daily to meet these needs.
My kids have plenty of their own time online but we also use math games online and I give research assignments for them to do online all the time, usually pertaining to something that they are interested in ... as you said research on music artists, etc... but I feel (and maybe you do this) that the next step is for you (or an adult) to have conversations around this information ... my kids and I even sometimes use a yahoo group to have conversations but mostly in the car or at the dinner table ... we talk about a song they like, the artist, where the artist is from, how they became famous, and this usually branches to many things. When ever my children have a question we research it ... find out the history, etc...
This is hard for others to see because it is not the typical ... but it is a way of learning. Again for me a big issue is that all these things need to be done with guidance from someone ... hope this helps some!
With peace, love and kindness,
Amy Lemmon
amylemmon@...
Blog: Six Flower Mom
________________________________
From: T McAdams <tmcadams81670@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 9:56 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Questions about computer usage
Hello all,
My daughter is 11.5 and she spends most of her day online. She has two
social networking sites where she spends time, she listens to her music,
she is learning all sorts of things. I believe that she is fine tuning a
lot of different skills. She's learning to navigate new sites, post
pictures, find pictures online to post. She reads about her favorite music
artists and is generally in a state of learning, imho. Herein lies my
problem. I don't know how to convey this to my husband sot hat he sees what
she's doing as educational. He got very heated about it last night. I
stayed calm. I tried to explain to him all of what I thought she was
learning. Obviously, I didn't convey it in rich enough thought b/c he
called bullshit on everything I said. Do any of quick links that will do a
better job of explaining it than I do? What kind of advice do you have in
this situation? Thank you.
Kindly,
Tina
in South Florida
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My kids have plenty of their own time online but we also use math games online and I give research assignments for them to do online all the time, usually pertaining to something that they are interested in ... as you said research on music artists, etc... but I feel (and maybe you do this) that the next step is for you (or an adult) to have conversations around this information ... my kids and I even sometimes use a yahoo group to have conversations but mostly in the car or at the dinner table ... we talk about a song they like, the artist, where the artist is from, how they became famous, and this usually branches to many things. When ever my children have a question we research it ... find out the history, etc...
This is hard for others to see because it is not the typical ... but it is a way of learning. Again for me a big issue is that all these things need to be done with guidance from someone ... hope this helps some!
With peace, love and kindness,
Amy Lemmon
amylemmon@...
Blog: Six Flower Mom
________________________________
From: T McAdams <tmcadams81670@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 9:56 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Questions about computer usage
Hello all,
My daughter is 11.5 and she spends most of her day online. She has two
social networking sites where she spends time, she listens to her music,
she is learning all sorts of things. I believe that she is fine tuning a
lot of different skills. She's learning to navigate new sites, post
pictures, find pictures online to post. She reads about her favorite music
artists and is generally in a state of learning, imho. Herein lies my
problem. I don't know how to convey this to my husband sot hat he sees what
she's doing as educational. He got very heated about it last night. I
stayed calm. I tried to explain to him all of what I thought she was
learning. Obviously, I didn't convey it in rich enough thought b/c he
called bullshit on everything I said. Do any of quick links that will do a
better job of explaining it than I do? What kind of advice do you have in
this situation? Thank you.
Kindly,
Tina
in South Florida
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lesley Cross
While I don't know that there's specific evidence that being on the computer is optimal (all depends on how you judge and measure "optimal", imo), there is plenty of evidence that following one's joy IS.
One piece of evidence being that many adults spend large amounts of time, energy and money trying to relearn how to connect with what they love and fight off all the ingrained messages that doing what they love, living joyously, is hazardous.
Essentially millions of adults are attempting to unschool, to de-enculturate, themselves- because they've found that following everyone else's idea of what's good for them has not helped them live healthy, happy, fulfilled lives.
Lesley
http://www.euphorialifedesignstudio.com
One piece of evidence being that many adults spend large amounts of time, energy and money trying to relearn how to connect with what they love and fight off all the ingrained messages that doing what they love, living joyously, is hazardous.
Essentially millions of adults are attempting to unschool, to de-enculturate, themselves- because they've found that following everyone else's idea of what's good for them has not helped them live healthy, happy, fulfilled lives.
Lesley
http://www.euphorialifedesignstudio.com
On Jun 17, 2012, at 12:26 PM, Raw Shells <overhereinheaven@...> wrote:
I'd be very interested in seeing information stating that a child being on
a computer all day is optimal for his/her development. There is, indeed, a
huge amount of information that implies the opposite..... Have you read
"Last Child in the Woods" by Richard Louv? Nature is essential for healthy
child development.
Lovingly,
Rachelle
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 7:56 AM, T McAdams <tmcadams81670@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> Hello all,
>
> My daughter is 11.5 and she spends most of her day online. She has two
> social networking sites where she spends time, she listens to her music,
> she is learning all sorts of things. I believe that she is fine tuning a
> lot of different skills. She's learning to navigate new sites, post
> pictures, find pictures online to post. She reads about her favorite music
> artists and is generally in a state of learning, imho. Herein lies my
> problem. I don't know how to convey this to my husband sot hat he sees what
> she's doing as educational. He got very heated about it last night. I
> stayed calm. I tried to explain to him all of what I thought she was
> learning. Obviously, I didn't convey it in rich enough thought b/c he
> called bullshit on everything I said. Do any of quick links that will do a
> better job of explaining it than I do? What kind of advice do you have in
> this situation? Thank you.
>
> Kindly,
> Tina
> in South Florida
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
--
*Lovingly,
*Rachelle
*�When you teach a child something you take away forever his chance of
discovering it for himself.� ~ Jean Piaget*
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jun 17, 2012, at 12:26 PM, Raw Shells wrote:
Some things are easy to measure so get studied by science. Like memorization, ability to display the proper behavior, number of hours spent on various tasks, weight.
Some things are hard to measure so don't get studied. Happiness, healthy relationships, nurturedness, passion, interest, curiosity.
The result is that what gets studied seems important while what isn't studied seems unimportant.
If a child ranks high on all the measurables but low on the unmeasurables, they would rate at "optimal level". An A student can be miserable. A D student can be passionately, happily exploring what interests her.
Anything done by choice when the choices are all appealing to the child, increases happiness.
Kids dragged into nature after mom has cut off their computer, video game or TV time, is resentful and has damaged her child's trust, neither of which is good for healthy development.
Rather than trying to subtract computers from a child's life, add lots of options to the child's life. Be mindful of what the child wants to do and work more options into the day. Invite them to help in the garden. Go to parks and other place grounds they've never been. Walk through old cemeteries. Plan out and about days in advance: be mindful of making time for both being out dewing new stuff and giving the child time to do what they need not he computer.
When mothers look at where they want their children to be, it becomes a struggle to get them there. When mothers focus on offering their kids more and supporting their choices, it's far more pleasant and builds relationships.
Joyce
> I'd be very interested in seeing information stating that a child being onOptimal for what?
> a computer all day is optimal for his/her development.
Some things are easy to measure so get studied by science. Like memorization, ability to display the proper behavior, number of hours spent on various tasks, weight.
Some things are hard to measure so don't get studied. Happiness, healthy relationships, nurturedness, passion, interest, curiosity.
The result is that what gets studied seems important while what isn't studied seems unimportant.
If a child ranks high on all the measurables but low on the unmeasurables, they would rate at "optimal level". An A student can be miserable. A D student can be passionately, happily exploring what interests her.
> There is, indeed, aRather than looking at theories and information that "makes intellectual sense", the questions to ask are does it match what unschoolers see in their own kids? And if not, what do the unschoolers see instead? And why the difference?
> huge amount of information that implies the opposite....
> Nature is essential for healthyThe most important factor in health and development -- one that is really hard to measure -- is happiness.
> child development.
Anything done by choice when the choices are all appealing to the child, increases happiness.
Kids dragged into nature after mom has cut off their computer, video game or TV time, is resentful and has damaged her child's trust, neither of which is good for healthy development.
Rather than trying to subtract computers from a child's life, add lots of options to the child's life. Be mindful of what the child wants to do and work more options into the day. Invite them to help in the garden. Go to parks and other place grounds they've never been. Walk through old cemeteries. Plan out and about days in advance: be mindful of making time for both being out dewing new stuff and giving the child time to do what they need not he computer.
When mothers look at where they want their children to be, it becomes a struggle to get them there. When mothers focus on offering their kids more and supporting their choices, it's far more pleasant and builds relationships.
Joyce
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jun 17, 2012, at 10:56 AM, T McAdams wrote:
What does he want to see? What will make him more comfortable?
Often people put up with something until they can't stand it any longer and then they blow up. :-/ So what he asks for may sound initially unreasonable. So start small. Find doable, enjoyable ways to give him what he wants to see.
Keep a blog.
Take your daughter places that she enjoys that have an educational feel to them.
Listen to books on tape in the car.
Find documentaries to watch that tie in to her interests. She might be interested in the history of whatever subject she's exploring through music.
If you give us some idea of what she enjoys undoubtedly people on the list will have ideas.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Herein lies myRather than trying to get him to see the "right" way, move to where he is and build bridges outward.
> problem. I don't know how to convey this to my husband sot hat he sees what
> she's doing as educational.
What does he want to see? What will make him more comfortable?
Often people put up with something until they can't stand it any longer and then they blow up. :-/ So what he asks for may sound initially unreasonable. So start small. Find doable, enjoyable ways to give him what he wants to see.
Keep a blog.
Take your daughter places that she enjoys that have an educational feel to them.
Listen to books on tape in the car.
Find documentaries to watch that tie in to her interests. She might be interested in the history of whatever subject she's exploring through music.
If you give us some idea of what she enjoys undoubtedly people on the list will have ideas.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lovejoy
-----Original Message-----
From: Raw Shells <overhereinheaven@...>
I'd be very interested in seeing information stating that a child being on
a computer all day is optimal for his/her development. There is, indeed, a
huge amount of information that implies the opposite..... Have you read
"Last Child in the Woods" by Richard Louv? Nature is essential for healthy
child development.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
So all those children who are incapacitated on some huge level who canNOT be exposed to nature the "optimal" amount? ALL those children are developmentally unhealthy?
I call bullshit.
Please don't come on this list spouting untruths.
As a nature lover who spends 10-12 hours outdoors daily, *I* know that *I* need more time in nature than most people. That does NOT make everyone else as nature-needy as *I* am.
Some children simply canNOT enjoy the outdoors, yet they CAN be developmentally normal. Each individual IS an individual---and no book is going to change who they are.
Yes, get your children out and enjoy nature. But all day on the computer (even weeks/months at a time) is NOT going to ruin them. As an unschooling parent, I try to expose my children to as many different things/situations/people/experiences as possible. I see that as my job. But if they *clearly* aren't enjoying something, I will NOT make them. It's counter-productive: a child who made to spend time where he clearly doesn't want to be can become resentful and learn to hate whatever he's being made to do.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: Raw Shells <overhereinheaven@...>
I'd be very interested in seeing information stating that a child being on
a computer all day is optimal for his/her development. There is, indeed, a
huge amount of information that implies the opposite..... Have you read
"Last Child in the Woods" by Richard Louv? Nature is essential for healthy
child development.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
So all those children who are incapacitated on some huge level who canNOT be exposed to nature the "optimal" amount? ALL those children are developmentally unhealthy?
I call bullshit.
Please don't come on this list spouting untruths.
As a nature lover who spends 10-12 hours outdoors daily, *I* know that *I* need more time in nature than most people. That does NOT make everyone else as nature-needy as *I* am.
Some children simply canNOT enjoy the outdoors, yet they CAN be developmentally normal. Each individual IS an individual---and no book is going to change who they are.
Yes, get your children out and enjoy nature. But all day on the computer (even weeks/months at a time) is NOT going to ruin them. As an unschooling parent, I try to expose my children to as many different things/situations/people/experiences as possible. I see that as my job. But if they *clearly* aren't enjoying something, I will NOT make them. It's counter-productive: a child who made to spend time where he clearly doesn't want to be can become resentful and learn to hate whatever he's being made to do.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
What does he suggest?
Nance
Nance
--- In [email protected], T McAdams <tmcadams81670@...> wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> My daughter is 11.5 and she spends most of her day online. She has two
> social networking sites where she spends time, she listens to her music,
> she is learning all sorts of things. I believe that she is fine tuning a
> lot of different skills. She's learning to navigate new sites, post
> pictures, find pictures online to post. She reads about her favorite music
> artists and is generally in a state of learning, imho. Herein lies my
> problem. I don't know how to convey this to my husband sot hat he sees what
> she's doing as educational. He got very heated about it last night. I
> stayed calm. I tried to explain to him all of what I thought she was
> learning. Obviously, I didn't convey it in rich enough thought b/c he
> called bullshit on everything I said. Do any of quick links that will do a
> better job of explaining it than I do? What kind of advice do you have in
> this situation? Thank you.
>
> Kindly,
> Tina
> in South Florida
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Meredith
Raw Shells <overhereinheaven@...> wrote:
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/
http://sandradodd.com/unschooling
---Meredith
>Read everything you can written by radical unschoolers. Here are two good places to start:
> I'd be very interested in seeing information stating that a child being on
> a computer all day is optimal for his/her development.
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/
http://sandradodd.com/unschooling
> There is, indeed, aThere's actually none whatsoever as pertains to unschoolers. There's plenty of evidence that if you lock children in a classroom all day and then limit their use of computers, so they binge every chance they get, it's bad for them. But the real life experience of unschoolers is very, very different.
> huge amount of information that implies the opposite.....
---Meredith
Erica Iwamura
I have a 10 year old who LOVES Minecraft and the part of me that wants to
control gets antsy about the time he spends on there BUT then I step back
and I see what he builds, which is amazing! He is chatting with friends
which has improved his reading and he is typing a dialog with them so he is
spelling and typing.. all on his own! (okay sometimes I type the longer
responses for him but that is getting to be less and less as he develops
his skills) They have been having a building contest this week and they
are all building famous buildings. He chose to build the Sydney Opera
House.. which we looked up together and found pictures of.
My older son is 12 and he uses the computer to talk with friends on
Facebook, play some Minecraft but not much and he looks up lots of music on
YouTube and learned to play songs on his guitar and bass guitar finding
tabs for the songs he likes.
So, up there in those few things I see reading, grammar, typing, music,
research skills, hell.. I could even say there are some beginning drafting
skills in there with the Minecraft building : )
Not sure that helps but wanted to chime in with what I see with their
online usage...
also, they do eventually go out and do other things (mine do at least).. my
oldest is mountain biking with his dad right now. Given the freedom to
chose, he has decided that he wants to mountain bike more often. They
don't sit on the computer forever, LOL.
Erica
control gets antsy about the time he spends on there BUT then I step back
and I see what he builds, which is amazing! He is chatting with friends
which has improved his reading and he is typing a dialog with them so he is
spelling and typing.. all on his own! (okay sometimes I type the longer
responses for him but that is getting to be less and less as he develops
his skills) They have been having a building contest this week and they
are all building famous buildings. He chose to build the Sydney Opera
House.. which we looked up together and found pictures of.
My older son is 12 and he uses the computer to talk with friends on
Facebook, play some Minecraft but not much and he looks up lots of music on
YouTube and learned to play songs on his guitar and bass guitar finding
tabs for the songs he likes.
So, up there in those few things I see reading, grammar, typing, music,
research skills, hell.. I could even say there are some beginning drafting
skills in there with the Minecraft building : )
Not sure that helps but wanted to chime in with what I see with their
online usage...
also, they do eventually go out and do other things (mine do at least).. my
oldest is mountain biking with his dad right now. Given the freedom to
chose, he has decided that he wants to mountain bike more often. They
don't sit on the computer forever, LOL.
Erica
Meredith
I don't see this question as being about computers so much as being about unschooling itself.
T McAdams <tmcadams81670@...> wrote:
How does your husband feel about unschooling in general? How long have y'all been unschooling? What are his goals and concerns and values where his children are concerned?
Unschooling isn't a good fit for every family. If your husband doesn't feel that unschooling is serving his daughter's best interests, that's something for the two of you to discuss. Take his concerns and values seriously! It may be the two of you can come to a compromise which you can both feel okay about.
---Meredith
T McAdams <tmcadams81670@...> wrote:
>Herein lies myIf your goal is to show that unschooling is just as educational as education, you're going to fail. It isn't. It doesn't look like "getting an education" because it isn't. It's natural learning, and that looks very, very different.
> problem. I don't know how to convey this to my husband sot hat he sees what
> she's doing as educational.
How does your husband feel about unschooling in general? How long have y'all been unschooling? What are his goals and concerns and values where his children are concerned?
Unschooling isn't a good fit for every family. If your husband doesn't feel that unschooling is serving his daughter's best interests, that's something for the two of you to discuss. Take his concerns and values seriously! It may be the two of you can come to a compromise which you can both feel okay about.
>What kind of advice do you have inBe as thoughtful and considerate of your husband as you would be of your child. Sincerely appreciate his contributions to your family and his natural concerns for the future. Treat him like a member of your team, whose thoughts and feelings are important to the team. If he "loses" the whole family loses.
> this situation?
---Meredith
[email protected]
Erica:
I am amazed at the Minecraft creations. What site is he using that posts
the contests?
In a message dated 6/17/2012 12:46:26 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
hakujin777@... writes:
I have a 10 year old who LOVES Minecraft and the part of me that wants to
control gets antsy about the time he spends on there BUT then I step back
and I see what he builds, which is amazing! He is chatting with friends
which has improved his reading and he is typing a dialog with them so he is
spelling and typing.. all on his own! (okay sometimes I type the longer
responses for him but that is getting to be less and less as he develops
his skills) They have been having a building contest this week and they
are all building famous buildings. He chose to build the Sydney Opera
House.. which we looked up together and found pictures of.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I am amazed at the Minecraft creations. What site is he using that posts
the contests?
In a message dated 6/17/2012 12:46:26 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
hakujin777@... writes:
I have a 10 year old who LOVES Minecraft and the part of me that wants to
control gets antsy about the time he spends on there BUT then I step back
and I see what he builds, which is amazing! He is chatting with friends
which has improved his reading and he is typing a dialog with them so he is
spelling and typing.. all on his own! (okay sometimes I type the longer
responses for him but that is getting to be less and less as he develops
his skills) They have been having a building contest this week and they
are all building famous buildings. He chose to build the Sydney Opera
House.. which we looked up together and found pictures of.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
> I tried to explain to him all of what I thought she wasSome links which might be helpful to read, if he's interested in natural learning/unschooling in general:
> learning. Obviously, I didn't convey it in rich enough thought b/c he
> called bullshit on everything I said. Do any of quick links that will do a
> better job of explaining it than I do?
http://sandradodd.com/tv
http://sandradodd.com/videogames/
There are tons of stories on each of those pages. But it could also help to read here, and consider what your husband is actually looking for:
http://sandradodd.com/seeingit
---Meredith
Erica Iwamura
He is using an online friends server. I am looking in to getting him his
own server : )
the owner of the servers is a mom of one of the kids on there and she comes
up with contest ideas. they like it : )
Erica
own server : )
the owner of the servers is a mom of one of the kids on there and she comes
up with contest ideas. they like it : )
Erica
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 12:55 PM, <HSlater351@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> Erica:
>
> I am amazed at the Minecraft creations. What site is he using that posts
> the contests?
>
>
Ann
I don't usually chime in on these things,but I have the same issue in my home. I started just jotting down during the day the things my son and I have talked about and that he has done. I keep a running list of "vocabulary word" i.e. my son has asked me "what's this word mean" and we look it up. I keep a list of "spelling words" mom, how do you spell this word?". I list any projects we've done together, any games we've played together like scrabble, battle ship, etc. I write down when he plays Mindcraft which is construction and has all kinds of concepts involved like math, problem solving, etc. We had a litter of kittens born a few months ago, and that covered all kinds of biology lessons, anytime he gets outside and plays with friends-PE, anytime he researches something online which he does all the time. I never told my husband I was going to keep a list, I just did it for the next time he was unhappy with how things were going I could pull it out. I never had to pull it out. He never complained again. I'm sure he saw the list on my desk. So that's how we've approached the solution to this problem.
Ann L.
Ann L.
Ann
Oh yeah, one other thing, I asked my husband how long it would take if he had to, as an adult, sit down and learn all math concepts from K through 8th grade, how long would it take him. He replied "a couple of months". So that solved the math panic in him.
Ann L.
Ann L.
Ann
I agree. When my son was little he slowly stopped enjoying being outside and I could not understand why. Turned out he had severe food sensitivities that made his muscles and joint painful and made him sensitive to the sun. It literally stung when he went out in the sun. He is on the mend some 9 years later, but he still doesn't enjoy the out of doors. I myself spend time outdoors every day, sometimes up to 4 hours working in the yard. I do not force him to come with me. He spends a lot of screen time, but does some other things like building with bionicles and legos and doing wood working projects. but most of his time is screen time and he is learning so many things online.
Ann L
Ann L
--- In [email protected], Kelly Lovejoy <kbcdlovejo@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Raw Shells <overhereinheaven@...>
>
>
> I'd be very interested in seeing information stating that a child being on
> a computer all day is optimal for his/her development. There is, indeed, a
> huge amount of information that implies the opposite..... Have you read
> "Last Child in the Woods" by Richard Louv? Nature is essential for healthy
> child development.
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
>
> So all those children who are incapacitated on some huge level who canNOT be exposed to nature the "optimal" amount? ALL those children are developmentally unhealthy?
>
>
> I call bullshit.
>
>
> Please don't come on this list spouting untruths.
>
>
> As a nature lover who spends 10-12 hours outdoors daily, *I* know that *I* need more time in nature than most people. That does NOT make everyone else as nature-needy as *I* am.
>
>
> Some children simply canNOT enjoy the outdoors, yet they CAN be developmentally normal. Each individual IS an individual---and no book is going to change who they are.
>
>
> Yes, get your children out and enjoy nature. But all day on the computer (even weeks/months at a time) is NOT going to ruin them. As an unschooling parent, I try to expose my children to as many different things/situations/people/experiences as possible. I see that as my job. But if they *clearly* aren't enjoying something, I will NOT make them. It's counter-productive: a child who made to spend time where he clearly doesn't want to be can become resentful and learn to hate whatever he's being made to do.
>
>
>
> ~Kelly
>
> Kelly Lovejoy
> "There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Schuyler
"Have you read "Last Child in the Woods" by Richard Louv? Nature is essential for healthy child development."
No, I haven't. I see, when looking it up, that it is subtitled "Saving our Children from Nature-Deficit Disorder", goodness a whole disorder.
Have you read Wisconsin Death Trip? It was turned into a film that you can watch on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCEhxUZuV98&feature=related. It was a series of clippings and photographs from Wisconsin in the late 1800's about life and madness and death in Wisconsin. I don't like the narrator's whisper on the film. My mom has the book and it fascinated me, this analysis of what it was to live in nature. I like civilisation. David is reading Mari Sandoz's book Old Jules right now, another account of how nature red in tooth and claw is not the kindest of developers. It's her biography of her father, as he requested she write it, who was not a gentle man.
It is an interesting disorder to bring up on a list where children are being encouraged to explore the world on their own terms. I presume the prescription would be some kind of forced engagement with nature? My children are big into computers and gaming. Internet access is important, and the past 3 weeks without much access has been frustrating, for me at least as much as for them. It is a big part of how they connect with the world and how the world connects with them. And you can change the pronoun in the last sentence from "they" and "them" to "I" and "me". It is a fabulous thing that I can respond from anywhere in the world, given access, to someone anywhere else in the world. It is a fabulous thing that I can watch someone doing makeup for horror films without having to sign up for a class or figure out a way to get to Hollywood or make it up as I go along or decide that it isn't worth the effort, the curiosity all because youtube brings it to me,
brings me specialists in the field. Incredible. I know how, at least theoretically, to make up a burn injury on someone, 1st, 2nd and 3rd degree, because Simon and Linnaea shared a video with me last night. And I know more clearly what those degrees are because of the video.
Having those things to hand, however, hasn't precluded walks on the beach, or feeding kookaburras, or listening to magpies self-harmonising--almost like throat singers, or testing natural insect repellents on lines of ants or finding chitons on a rock amongst other molluscs or enjoying kangaroos and joeys or going to used bookstores or any of it. If I forced them, they wouldn't come so quickly, so readily when I called to look at this. They wouldn't find pleasure in nature, only duty. Nature deficit disorder sounds a justification for making a child do what you want them to do. Just like all the other kinds of excuses that populate the world of parenting.
Schuyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
No, I haven't. I see, when looking it up, that it is subtitled "Saving our Children from Nature-Deficit Disorder", goodness a whole disorder.
Have you read Wisconsin Death Trip? It was turned into a film that you can watch on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCEhxUZuV98&feature=related. It was a series of clippings and photographs from Wisconsin in the late 1800's about life and madness and death in Wisconsin. I don't like the narrator's whisper on the film. My mom has the book and it fascinated me, this analysis of what it was to live in nature. I like civilisation. David is reading Mari Sandoz's book Old Jules right now, another account of how nature red in tooth and claw is not the kindest of developers. It's her biography of her father, as he requested she write it, who was not a gentle man.
It is an interesting disorder to bring up on a list where children are being encouraged to explore the world on their own terms. I presume the prescription would be some kind of forced engagement with nature? My children are big into computers and gaming. Internet access is important, and the past 3 weeks without much access has been frustrating, for me at least as much as for them. It is a big part of how they connect with the world and how the world connects with them. And you can change the pronoun in the last sentence from "they" and "them" to "I" and "me". It is a fabulous thing that I can respond from anywhere in the world, given access, to someone anywhere else in the world. It is a fabulous thing that I can watch someone doing makeup for horror films without having to sign up for a class or figure out a way to get to Hollywood or make it up as I go along or decide that it isn't worth the effort, the curiosity all because youtube brings it to me,
brings me specialists in the field. Incredible. I know how, at least theoretically, to make up a burn injury on someone, 1st, 2nd and 3rd degree, because Simon and Linnaea shared a video with me last night. And I know more clearly what those degrees are because of the video.
Having those things to hand, however, hasn't precluded walks on the beach, or feeding kookaburras, or listening to magpies self-harmonising--almost like throat singers, or testing natural insect repellents on lines of ants or finding chitons on a rock amongst other molluscs or enjoying kangaroos and joeys or going to used bookstores or any of it. If I forced them, they wouldn't come so quickly, so readily when I called to look at this. They wouldn't find pleasure in nature, only duty. Nature deficit disorder sounds a justification for making a child do what you want them to do. Just like all the other kinds of excuses that populate the world of parenting.
Schuyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lindaguitar
My daughter, age 19, spends most of her time online when she's not at work (she is a lifeguard, but it's only a part-time job); I spend most of my free time online, reading, writing, chatting with friends, playing games, listening to music, etc; my husband and son (age 21) are both very tech-savvy, and both work in jobs that require that they sit at computers most of the time, and then they come home and do more computer stuff. (At home, my husband reads news and email and articles and listens to music; my son is an avid gamer.)
Admittedly, my daughter wasn't so into computers when she was 11. But my son was. And my husband and I were. So - here we are, an unschooling family of computer geeks, and no harm done by it, and plenty of good, in terms of learning and hire-ability, in addition to entertainment.
BUT, when my kids were younger, we also always loved swimming, going to parks and museums, concerts and plays, and other places of interest, reading aloud together, and other activities. My daughter has always been into art and crafts such as jewelry-making and sculpting. My kids liked to ride their bikes when they were younger; my son went roller-skating once a week; they got together with friends as often as possible. During the school year, they took some classes with our homeschool group. They each joined a Venture Scout group when they turned 14, and went to weekly meetings and did occasional cool stuff on weekends, like sailing, hiking, camping, rock-climbing, etc.
So we have always done a variety of activities, but we all spent and still spend a LOT of time online.
There are obvious advantages to being highly computer-literate and tech-savvy. And kids who spend a lot of time online really DO learn a lot! ALL of the kids I know whose parents let them spend a lot of time online are interesting, well-informed people who are knowledgeable and enthusiastic about a wide range of topics.
(Addressing concerns that people who spend a lot of time in front of electronic screens are unhealthy because of it: Neither of my kids is overweight or out-of-shape. At this point, my daughter gets her exercise by walking the dog, and doing pool maintenance and cleaning as a part of her job; I'm not sure what my son does for exercise these days; he lives about 40 miles away, and I don't get to see him very often. But I know he's healthy and happy.)
So - what does your husband see as the disadvantages of your daughter's spending so much time online? Whatever disadvantages he sees, can you all sit down and discuss his concerns rationally, without getting angry and upset?
Does he recognize the advantages of being comfortable and skilled with computers, and the availability of limitless information and culture and exposure to the wider world on the internet? (Surely your daughter wonders about things sometimes has questions, like any kid does and with the computer right in front of her, she can get the answers right away! In the middle of my writing this, my daughter asked something about the history of domesticated chickens, and that led to my husband and daughter and I all looking up articles about chickens and then doves and pigeons. We did a whole "research project" since I started writing this message!)
Are there other things your daughter likes doing that she would be willing (and happy) spending *some* of her time on, that would make your husband feel better about how she's spending her days? Does she like to swim, or ride a bike, or walk (maybe even walk around a mall with friends)? Does she enjoy reading books (in addition to emails, FB comments, and information about musicians and movies, etc) at all, or listening to audio books? Does she have a pet to take care of? (My daughter has a chinchilla that she has taken care of since she was 11.) Does she enjoy doing anything artistic or musical? Gardening? Sewing or knitting? Does she have friends?
Hopefully you'll be able to reassure your husband about the very real advantages of spending time online, AND come up with some other enjoyable (and maybe productive) ways for your daughter to spend some of her time.
If it helps him feel better about the situation, you can let him know that a lot of grown unschoolers who spent a lot of time online as kids are now working in IT, programming, web design, graphic design, journalism, etc. If he wants examples, I'll write more about the ones I know, and know of.
Linda
Admittedly, my daughter wasn't so into computers when she was 11. But my son was. And my husband and I were. So - here we are, an unschooling family of computer geeks, and no harm done by it, and plenty of good, in terms of learning and hire-ability, in addition to entertainment.
BUT, when my kids were younger, we also always loved swimming, going to parks and museums, concerts and plays, and other places of interest, reading aloud together, and other activities. My daughter has always been into art and crafts such as jewelry-making and sculpting. My kids liked to ride their bikes when they were younger; my son went roller-skating once a week; they got together with friends as often as possible. During the school year, they took some classes with our homeschool group. They each joined a Venture Scout group when they turned 14, and went to weekly meetings and did occasional cool stuff on weekends, like sailing, hiking, camping, rock-climbing, etc.
So we have always done a variety of activities, but we all spent and still spend a LOT of time online.
There are obvious advantages to being highly computer-literate and tech-savvy. And kids who spend a lot of time online really DO learn a lot! ALL of the kids I know whose parents let them spend a lot of time online are interesting, well-informed people who are knowledgeable and enthusiastic about a wide range of topics.
(Addressing concerns that people who spend a lot of time in front of electronic screens are unhealthy because of it: Neither of my kids is overweight or out-of-shape. At this point, my daughter gets her exercise by walking the dog, and doing pool maintenance and cleaning as a part of her job; I'm not sure what my son does for exercise these days; he lives about 40 miles away, and I don't get to see him very often. But I know he's healthy and happy.)
So - what does your husband see as the disadvantages of your daughter's spending so much time online? Whatever disadvantages he sees, can you all sit down and discuss his concerns rationally, without getting angry and upset?
Does he recognize the advantages of being comfortable and skilled with computers, and the availability of limitless information and culture and exposure to the wider world on the internet? (Surely your daughter wonders about things sometimes has questions, like any kid does and with the computer right in front of her, she can get the answers right away! In the middle of my writing this, my daughter asked something about the history of domesticated chickens, and that led to my husband and daughter and I all looking up articles about chickens and then doves and pigeons. We did a whole "research project" since I started writing this message!)
Are there other things your daughter likes doing that she would be willing (and happy) spending *some* of her time on, that would make your husband feel better about how she's spending her days? Does she like to swim, or ride a bike, or walk (maybe even walk around a mall with friends)? Does she enjoy reading books (in addition to emails, FB comments, and information about musicians and movies, etc) at all, or listening to audio books? Does she have a pet to take care of? (My daughter has a chinchilla that she has taken care of since she was 11.) Does she enjoy doing anything artistic or musical? Gardening? Sewing or knitting? Does she have friends?
Hopefully you'll be able to reassure your husband about the very real advantages of spending time online, AND come up with some other enjoyable (and maybe productive) ways for your daughter to spend some of her time.
If it helps him feel better about the situation, you can let him know that a lot of grown unschoolers who spent a lot of time online as kids are now working in IT, programming, web design, graphic design, journalism, etc. If he wants examples, I'll write more about the ones I know, and know of.
Linda
--- In [email protected], T McAdams <tmcadams81670@...> wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> My daughter is 11.5 and she spends most of her day online. She has two
> social networking sites where she spends time, she listens to her music,
> she is learning all sorts of things. I believe that she is fine tuning a
> lot of different skills. She's learning to navigate new sites, post
> pictures, find pictures online to post. She reads about her favorite music
> artists and is generally in a state of learning, imho. Herein lies my
> problem. I don't know how to convey this to my husband sot hat he sees what
> she's doing as educational. He got very heated about it last night. I
> stayed calm. I tried to explain to him all of what I thought she was
> learning. Obviously, I didn't convey it in rich enough thought b/c he
> called bullshit on everything I said. Do any of quick links that will do a
> better job of explaining it than I do? What kind of advice do you have in
> this situation? Thank you.
>
> Kindly,
> Tina
> in South Florida
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Joyce Fetteroll
> but most of his time is screen timeIt will help parents get to know their kids better by not labeling what kids do on the computer (and TV, video games) as screen time. It suggests all those hours are being spent on the same thing. But it would be like labeling reading a novel, following a recipe, looking up a word, doing origami, drawing a picture, writing a story, papering a wall, writing a song, reading a map, making a to-do list as all "paper time".
"Screen time" might be watching a Shakespeare play, listening to music (which might be Mozart or aboriginal music or composing your own), solving puzzles, finding the origin of a word and how it's being used, chatting with friends, writing stories, drawing pictures, designing buildings, researching recipes, exploring the history of toilets ...
Just because 2 things have one thing in common doesn't mean they're at all alike.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]