Tina M

Hello fellow travelers!

My daughter is 11.5 and has no expected chores set for her. She volunteered to empty all of the trash cans in the house before trash day for an allowance. Beyond that she doesn't really do anything. Sometimes I'll ask her to vaccuum the upstairs and she says she will, but she doesn't. I don't nag at her for any kind of cleaning. She is comfortable living in the chaos of her room. I am the opposite. I like things very neat and clean and I keep it that way. Is there an expected age when she "should" do chores? I often make her bed for her, too, b/c I want to be kind and generous. Most of the chores that I do for her (laundry, making her bed, picking up her room) I do to show love. I model the qualities of generosity that I would prefer her to learn more than having her do a set of chores. My husband, however, is really frustrated. He thinks that at her age she should be responsible for a whole slew of chores. Laundry, keeping her bathroom clean, the aforementioned vaccuming, and whatever messes she makes during the day. I'm tending to just continue what I'm doing knowing that she has her own preferences of what level of clean she is willing to deal with. Her needs for order don't match mine or my husband's and that's okay. How do I present this in a positive light for my husband. How better can I explain it to him? Thanks!

Tina
in South Florida

Meredith

"Tina M" <tmcadams81670@...> wrote:
>She volunteered to empty all of the trash cans in the house before trash day for an allowance.
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Is she wanting the satisfaction of doing something for pay or would she be just as happy with a "no strings" allowance?

>>Beyond that she doesn't really do anything.

I know the topic is "chores" but gosh, that's a harsh statement. She's not interested in housekeeping right now. It's not a priority to her. That's okay. What other things does she like to do? It can help to see kids as busy people. Recently my 10yo has been very busy, spending hours every day building a world on Minecraft - that doesn't leave much time for other activities.

>>Is there an expected age when she "should" do chores?

Why? Really think about that, especially in light of this:
>> Most of the chores that I do for her... I do to show love.

Does the fact that she's not interested in housekeeping leave you wondering if your daughter loves you in some way? Different people show love in different ways. It may be that she doesn't really see your housekeeping as loving behavior - it's just something you do.

>> How do I present this in a positive light for my husband. How better can I explain it to him?
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It could help to ask him Why he thinks she should do all sorts of chores. Does he see that as teaching responsibility, perhaps? Or teaching life skills? Or is it more a matter of jealously that he had to, so she should too? Let him talk about his reasons without countering or contradicting him for now. There may be other ways you can meet his concerns than creating an ongoing struggle over chores - help him see her taking on greater responsibilities already, or help him feel valued and cared for so he's less likely to be jealous of her "easy" life.

---Meredith

Joyce Fetteroll

On Jun 5, 2012, at 11:37 AM, Tina M wrote:

11 or 12 was about the time Kathryn stopped groaning when I asked her to do something ;-) It wasn't because she was feeling put upon but because what I believed was easy was actually overwhelming to her. As she headed into puberty I could see a mental shift in how she processed the world. And what was difficult before because easy.

> Sometimes I'll ask her to vaccuum the upstairs and she says she will, but she doesn't.

I would ask her to do something with you rather than sending her off to do something alone that, from her point of view, doesn't really need done. How willingly would you scrub the garage floor if your husband asked you to do it for him? She won't be able to see the dirt that you do until she's several years older. Right now she's interrupting something interesting to do something she sees as pointless for you. So, of course, she tends to forget.

Imagine saying to a bunch of people on a list, "I asked my friend to come over to clean out my garage. And she says she will but she doesn't." What do you think their reaction would be? ;-)

On the other hand, if you invited your friend over to clean the garage together, putting on some lively music, and then had a barbecue or swim or some wine and cheese or something enjoyable together, then it's far more likely she'd do it happily.

> She is comfortable living in the chaos of her room.

Perhaps. Different people have different tolerances. But what looks like chaos in my home is actually a visual organization system. I know right where everything is because I can picture what cluster of stuff it's in.

But I would bet, especially at her age, that there's also the factor that getting the room organized is an overwhelming task that's more work than the end result is worth. Picture having to climb a mountain to get your favorite treat. At what point is the trouble of getting there not worth what you end up with?

Ask her if she wouldn't mind if you cleaned her room. Ask her to keep you company and you can talk. Tell her stories of when she was little :-) Mix in some stories from when you were a kid. Or listen to a book on tape together. Ask her help with a few things to do with you. Maybe give her something simple. (But let her reaction be your guide on whether *she* thinks it's simple.) Ask her advice on how she'd like something organized, but don't keep asking her where to put things. My husband has done that and it's irritating. If I knew where to put it, I'd have put it there! ;-) (I did gently explain it to him.)

It's harder to want clean and organized if she doesn't experience her own stuff being clean and well organized. And also experience the chaos it devolves into. And experiences seeing you tackle the chaos. And experiences a pleasant time with you as you do it :-) (Though do be sensitive to her schedule. She *will* get something out of you cleaning her room if she's not there.)

> Is there an expected age when she "should" do chores?

Soon after you stop expecting ;-)

> I often make her bed for her, too, b/c I want to be kind and generous. Most of the chores that I do for her (laundry, making her bed, picking up her room) I do to show love.

And this is good :-)

*But* I do want to caution you not to expect her to understand it as love. As an adult you have the freedom to choose. From her point of view you're doing what you want to do.

I can even clearly remember making that mental shift from seeing my parents busy all the time with the things they wanted to do around the house to understanding those were things they felt they "had" to do.

And then, later, making another mental shift \ to seeing everything as a choice. :-) (But most people don't get that far in their mental shift.)

She *will* feel nurtured by what you do for her *if* you do it because you want to nurture her, not because you expect her to appreciate all you do for her.

> I model the qualities of generosity that I would prefer her to learn more than having her do a set of chores.

I don't think she will see it as generous until she has a home and you come do it all because she has a broken leg ;-)

But don't stop because she can't see from an adult understanding! It's all adding up. It will just take some years until her brain shifts into a more adult way of viewing the world.

Right now, at her point of mental development, you're doing what you want to do and what you're "supposed" to do to take care of a child.

What she will feel as generosity is when you joyfully give your time to help her with the things that *she* values. LIke setting aside the day a new video game is released so you can drive her to go get it. (Or even standing in line at midnight for it :-) Like remembering her favorite foods. Like getting up without grumbling at night when she's scared to go to the bathroom by herself.


> My husband, however, is really frustrated. He thinks that at her age she should be responsible for a whole slew of chores.

Yes, most parents would agree. Also most parents end up with very strained relationships with their teens.

Don't not make her do chores because you fear turning her into a grumpy teen ;-) Do it because nurturing a relationship with her now will carry through the teen years.

But what you've written doesn't sound like building a relationship. You're choosing to do lots of home care. That's not bad! It get the chores done. But if you draw her in to be with you, keep you company, listen to stories together, ask her to do something simple for you -- and thank her for giving you her time as you would a friend -- that will build a relationship.

> He thinks that at her age she should be responsible for a whole slew of chores.

I'm going to pull that out especially.

Parents call things they think kids should do "responsibilities." But they bear little resemblance to what adults think of as responsibilities.

Adult responsibilities are tasks we've chosen to take on. We get to decide what level of care we're going to give them. We can decide whether or not we want to continue with our responsibilities.

There is no law -- unless you live in one of those controlled communities -- that says you must mow your lawn. You could choose to turn it into a meadow. Or you could choose to hire someone to care for it. Or you could choose to move to a condominium. Or you could choose to pave it. Most people reject all those and don't think of them as choices. But every time you mow -- or make a home cooked meal, or take a shower, or go grocery shopping -- you're making a choice *not* to do the other things you could do.

But kid "responsibilities" aren't like that at all. They can't choose the tasks (including no tasks). They can't drop the tasks. They can't keep the tasks to their own standards. The kids are, in effect, conscripted labor. And the kids react to their tasks exactly the way you'd expect conscripted labor to act.

> How do I present this in a positive light for my husband. How better can I explain it to him? Thanks!

Do things happily, joyfully with her. Be aware of her schedule and don't ask for help -- except in an emergency -- when she's involved in something else. (Just as you'd be sensitive to a friend's schedule before asking for help.)

Ask her if there are things she does enjoy doing. It might surprise you! Maybe she enjoys doing sinks with the foaming stuff. Maybe she enjoys doing mirrors. Don't, though, send her off to do those things alone. When she isn't busy invite her to do what she likes as you do another part of the room.

What helped me with the bathroom was doing a *tiny* bit each day. Like just wiping 2 square feet of floor as the water for the shower gets hot. And then wiping the rim of the toilet with the paper towel. Sometimes *just* doing the track of the shower door. Usually I squirt just a portion of the tub and wipe it off at then end of my shower. I found it was the accumulation of all those really dirty tasks that would make me put off cleaning. And they'd just get even worse of course!

I wouldn't try to convince your husband. What he'll hear instead is that his opinions don't matter. I'd try to make the atmosphere more peaceful and joyful around daily tasks. :-)

Joyce

Joyce Fetteroll

> Most of the chores that I do for her... I do to show love.

Have you heard of The 5 Love Languages:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Chapman_(author)

It's possible she won't *ever* see you doing laundry for her as an act of love. So do it because you want to so she has time to do the things she values :-)

Whenever my daughter asked if it was okay if she went off to write or beat a game while I was doing some chore I always said "Absolutely. Being creative is a much better use of time."

So be aware of what *she* feels is her love language. Or toss it all at her. :-) (She'll probably change with age.) Bring her treats and other little gifts. Tell her spontaneously you love her. Spending time doing things she enjoys with her. Touch her on the shoulder, kiss the top of her head spontaneously. Be her willing transportation.

(Gary Chapman also has the 5 Love Languages of Children. I suppose the examples are different. They probably are both available through your library.)

Do these things for your husband too :-) And he's less likely to be grumpy about the chores.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Is there an expected age when she "should" do chores? -- Well, I'm the homeowner now so I have to do them. Sort of. :) Never high on my list of priorities, though, I have to say. It's a rainy day today and I could be sweeping and mopping but I have better things to do -- and almost anything falls in the better things category. :)

Nance

Tina M

My daughter gets tons of hugs, pats, loves, and affection. We read together during the day, we read at night, and she's always in my lap. Affection is not lacking in our home. I did want to comment that she may not get it yet that the things I do for her are out of love in my heart. If she doesn't get it now she will someday, and besides, it's really for ME. I LOVE doing these things for her and they make me a better person to give and not to expect anything in return. When she wants to play we play. When she wants to read we read. I am really good at getting cleaning done in the in between times. We tackle her room together often, too. Good advice about the husband. It all comes back to love and vibrational energy. Thank you!

Tina
in South Florida

Meredith

"Tina M" <tmcadams81670@...> wrote:
>
> My daughter gets tons of hugs, pats, loves, and affection.

Tina, this isn't about you/your family but a general comment. You can do all those things and still have a child who feels a lack of love if what that child perceives as love is something like words of affirmation or gifts. That's where the "5 Love Languages" idea is really interesting - different people perceive love differently to the point where you can feel like your shouting your love from the rooftops and your child or partner can still have the sense that your affection is lukewarm - sure, mom gives me lots of hugs, but she never says she likes my writing.

To an extent, everyone needs all kinds of love, but its good to keep in mind that your kids aren't you. It can help to look at your kids behavior to get a sense of how they best understand loving, and reflect that back at them.

>If she doesn't get it now she will someday, and besides, it's really for ME.

That's probably something to tell your husband.

---Meredith

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". . .and besides, it's really for ME." -- I don't think this it what you meant but this is the meaning I have read all along about your statements on making your DD's bed, etc. You are doing these things for you. You want them done. There's nothing wrong with that. Enjoy! When she joins in, fine. When she doesn't, fine.

Nance