Julia Berkley

Wow. More really helpful responses. I'm grateful and will re-read the
last bunch of posts often. Just want to clarify: I have no interest in
following the school department's requirements -- but I do have to gain
approval of an ed plan and submit a progress report at the end of the
year. I'm only interested in making sure I'm free to homeschool. So
either I have to do stuff that they consider equivalent in nature (but
not identical), or I have to be able to explain what we really do in a
way that satisfies their criteria. When the kids were younger, it was
easier to take an unschooling month and find so much stuff in it that
was "equivalent in nature" to what the schools expected. As they get
older, it gets a lot harder to pull that kind of terminology out of
what we really do. Though, again, I've got no problem doing that in
certain curricular categories, but quite a bit of a problem in the
other ones. Personally, if I didn't have to report, we'd never think
again about those categories!

Just wanted to make sure you get where that pressure is coming from.

Julia

On Feb 3, 2005, at 10:49 AM, [email protected] wrote:

>
>
> There are 9 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. Re: college and rich environment
> From: Julia Berkley <juliaberkley@...>
> 2. Re: Model United Nations
> From: Julia Berkley <juliaberkley@...>
> 3. Re: Re: college and rich environment
> From: Leslie530@...
> 4. college and a rich environment
> From: "Ren Allen" <starsuncloud@...>
> 5. What is "well rounded" anyway?
> From: "April M" <abmorris23@...>
> 6. Re: Re: college and rich environment
> From: kbcdlovejo@...
> 7. mornings
> From: "Latoya Hanson" <stuff4mom@...>
> 8. Re: What is "well rounded" anyway?
> From: "Debbie" <onehundredacrewood@...>
> 9. Re: mornings
> From: "J. Stauffer" <jnjstau@...>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 11:54:03 -0500
> From: Julia Berkley <juliaberkley@...>
> Subject: Re: college and rich environment
>
> Thanks for the encouraging words. I am a worrier, and I feel better! My
> husband is a librarian and where he worked (at the Boston Public
> Library -- he's a curator at a private institution now) you need an MLS
> to be considered a "professional." I believe most of the big research
> libraries are the same. But I was clueless about smaller libraries. I
> guess the trade-off would be salary, as always! But that's often a
> worthwhile trade if everything else falls into place, isn't it?
>
> And yes, these guys know all about what's out there to explore -- we're
> not far from Boston and the local support groups organize stuff all the
> time. We just don't tend to hook up with them much anymore. But we're
> certainly not isolated, either. My oldest does volunteer at 2 libraries
> so she's getting experience. Joanne got the science thing, alright.
> Fear of spiders and bees has kept us out of nature for the last bunch
> of years, so the first part of the year was spent trying to work
> through curriculum stuff because the kids thought that would be a good
> way to "get some science." But it goes against all of our grain and we
> just plain dropped it. We're starting to explore (like, this is our
> first week!) the many videos and NOVA programs that don't include
> arachnids or blood and guts (that takes a little research). And I
> think they're actually liking it. I certainly am, so maybe that helps.
>
> So I guess it's okay to ignore all the stuff about your kids needing to
> be well-rounded and let them round themselves however they like
> (barring requirements from the school dept.)? They are basically
> happier, and will be happier and happier the less we feel obligated to
> do stuff...
>
> Thanks again for you thoughts --
> Julia
> p.s. we're working on that physical activity thing, too!
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 11:28:59 -0500
> From: Julia Berkley <juliaberkley@...>
> Subject: Re: Model United Nations
>
>
> In answer to Jill's question about Model United Nations: They happen
> all over the country, usually organized by the political science
> departments of various colleges. They have them at both the Middle
> School and High School levels -- teams (which might represent several
> countries) are usually formed at schools, but we have a homeschooling
> group preparing for and participating in them. This year we're doing 2
> different MUN's in a year. I think it basically took one homeschooling
> mom's total diligence and devotion to make it happen here. She first
> taught an Introduction to the UN course, and followed with a course to
> prepare kids for the actual MUN. Now she repeats the process every year
> and we're all eternally grateful to her! She also dovetailed in a trip
> to NYC to the United Nations, including 2 days of meetings with
> officials and NGO's (Non-governmental organizations recognized by the
> UN).
>
> If you get more specifically interested, I can pass along your e-mail
> to her so you can connect for info/advise...
>
> Go here to start researching: www.unausa.org/
>
> Julia
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 12:38:19 EST
> From: Leslie530@...
> Subject: Re: Re: college and rich environment
>
>
> In a message dated 2/2/2005 12:14:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> juliaberkley@... writes:
>
> So I guess it's okay to ignore all the stuff about your kids needing
> to
> be well-rounded and let them round themselves however they like
> (barring requirements from the school dept.)? They are basically
> happier, and will be happier and happier the less we feel obligated to
> do stuff...
>
>
>
> *****
>
> I could be so wrong about this, but I like it so I'll share!
>
> I heard that "well-rounded" came from the days of the leisure upper
> classes.
> They had little else to do with their time except learn to make good
> social
> conversation. Being a well-rounded person, being able to converse on
> a wide
> range of topics, was important (so you weren't bored stiff!).
>
> The middle classes always wanted what the upper had, so when the middle
> class started to become "educated", they believed they wanted
> well-rounded too.
> Plus, it is a great time filler in school.
>
> So well-rounded, unless it is a personal goal, is just an intellectual
> superiority complex and a keep-up-with-the-jones' mentality.
>
> Leslie in SC, brought up to be well-rounded (and achieved it
> physically!)
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 17:58:08 -0000
> From: "Ren Allen" <starsuncloud@...>
> Subject: college and a rich environment
>
>
> "So I guess it's okay to ignore all the stuff about your kids
> needing to
> be well-rounded and let them round themselves however they like
> (barring requirements from the school dept.)? "
>
> Ooh.....you're including requirements from the school dept.? Yuck!!
> That's not going to bring you any closer to unschooling Julie. Try
> to live as though school didn't exist, including
> their "requirements", which even schooled kids may not understand!
>
> If you're trying to keep school requirements in your lives, that
> would probably keep you from enjoying LIFE. Unschoolers have decided
> that school requirements STOP learning from happening, why would we
> want to hang onto any of it?
>
> Ren
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 13:17:05 -0500
> From: "April M" <abmorris23@...>
> Subject: What is "well rounded" anyway?
>
> This is interesting that this has come up. I recently was part of an
> on-line
> conversation on a non-unschooling homeschool list about unschooling.
> It was
> brought up because of an article I was part of in the local paper about
> unschooling. The conversation was very respectful which isn't always
> the
> case on non-unschooling lists...anyway, being "well rounded" was
> brought up
> and discussed. It's the first time I've run into that concern in
> regards to
> unschooling. The concern expressed was basically "if I don't force my
> kids
> to learn certain things, they will not be 'well rounded'" We discussed
> the
> definition of 'well rounded' which of course, had different meanings to
> different people so defining our meanings cleared up a lot. It seems
> to me
> that in this day and age it is impossible to know 'a little about
> everything' (one of the definitions that was used) and being exposed to
> different things, places, people, etc is going to be limited to some
> degree
> by one's income, location, interests, etc. regardless of how one is
> educated. I'm not particularly worried about my kids being 'well
> rounded'.
> My kids have areas of interest they pursue...but because of friends,
> my own
> interests, activities they're involved in, they become exposed to
> things
> they wouldn't on their own. They are more 'well rounded' than some,
> less
> than others....but what seems right for us at this time. So though
> I'm not
> worried about it, I find it an interesting topic of conversation and
> thought.
>
> ~April
> Mom to Kate-18, Lisa-15, Karl-13, & Ben-9.
> *REACH Homeschool Group, an inclusive group meeting throughout Oakland
> County.. http://www.homeschoolingonashoestring.com/REACH_home.html
> *Michigan Youth Theater...Acting On Our Dreams...
> <http://www.michiganyouththeater.org/>
> "What one knows is, in youth, of little moment; they know enough who
> know
> how to learn."
> Henry Brooks Adams (1838-1918)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 16:14:33 -0500
> From: kbcdlovejo@...
> Subject: Re: Re: college and rich environment
>
> In a message dated 2/2/2005 11:54:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, Julia
> Berkley <juliaberkley@...> writes:
>
> Joanne got the science thing, alright.
>> Fear of spiders and bees has kept us out of nature for the last bunch
>> of years, so the first part of the year was spent trying to work
>> through curriculum stuff because the kids thought that would be a good
>> way to "get some science." But it goes against all of our grain and we
>> just plain dropped it. We're starting to explore (like, this is our
>> first week!) the many videos and NOVA programs that don't include
>> arachnids or blood and guts (that takes a little research).  <<<<<
>
> Well, first of all, dividing the world in to science and not-science
> just won't work with unschooling. Everything is science. To "not do
> science" because it's bugs and blood....yikes!
>
> Just because you have aversions to bugs and blood---well, science
> isn't just insects and the circulatory system! There's botany and
> physics and geology and astronomy and chemistry and......and each of
> those can be broken down into smaller -ologies. Isn't there even
> LIBRARY SCIENCE?? I'm sure you could find one that would satisfy the
> school board of you *had* to.
>
> Cooking is commonly used as "science" by homeschoolers.
>
> As an unschooler, though, I can see that making "Stone Soup" isn't
> *just* "science"----it's chemistry, of course, but it's also full of
> art, history, literature, sociology, math, biology,----possibly even
> foreign language/customs, depending on the soup!
>
>
>>>>> So I guess it's okay to ignore all the stuff about your kids
>>>>> needing to be well-rounded and let them round themselves however
>>>>> they like (barring requirements from the school dept.)? They are
>>>>> basically happier, and will be happier and happier the less we
>>>>> feel obligated to do stuff...<<<<<<<<
>
> Do you actually KNOW an adult who is well-rounded? My dad is about the
> closest to well-rounded that I know---kind of a renaissance man----but
> he is totally in the dark when I talk about John Holt (or unschooling)
> or bees or a poodle's pompons! He's NOT well-rounded in *my* world.
>
> I would be a fish out of water at a NASCAR event---and that's OK. It's
> not part of my world. I'm not well-rounded when it comes to NASCAR.
> But if I wanted to be (let's say I divorced and married Mario
> Andretti's grandson---you can tell how out of the loop I AM! <g> OHOH!
> Jeff Gordon---he's one, right? <g>), I could probably learn myself
> right into that world in no time.
>
> Each person's world is different. Well-rounded has nothing to do with
> anything because...well, life (and the world) changes. It used to be
> important to know how to chop wood properly. Well, lots of folks have
> no need of wood. Do I still need to know how? Am I not well-rounded if
> I don't know how? In Montana, maybe!
>
>>>>>>> (barring requirements from the school dept.)? <<<<<
>
> Too much school talk! There's NOTHING they can require that you can't
> provide just by living. Honestly! My kids can cover more in one day
> than a school can cover in a week. We just look at things in a
> different way.
>
> Start looking at your world with unschooling eyes and you'll be able
> top see the art and literature and chemistry and biology and physics
> and history and life and love in a pot of soup!
>
> ~Kelly
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 13:31:09 -0000
> From: "Latoya Hanson" <stuff4mom@...>
> Subject: mornings
>
>
>
> My children are sleeping later and later in the mornings. I have
> been trying to give unschooling a chance so we can both learn more
> about it.
> They go to bed usually at 9pm and don't awake until 9am.
> So I decided to have bed time earlier, 7:30pm, for the past 2 days.
> They are waking at 8am. It takes them about a half hour to be up.
>
> Then to eat and get dressed, takes an hour. so by time they are
> done, it will be 10:30. my kids ages are 10,3,1. the 3 and 1 year
> old NEEDS to go down for a nap by 1:30.
>
> I have to start cooking by 3pm.I work in the evenings when my
> husband comes home so I want to do things with them in the mornings.
>
> The little time we get between 10:30-12 is spent fussing over who
> needs my attention. Because the 10 year old wants to have more of my
> attention than the smaller children.
>
> Also if I don't think of something to do between those times, the 10
> year old either wants to watch TV or paint or play games on the
> computer. My 3 year old is always so busy doing something and the
> one year old follows. Some times the 10 year old will follow the
> two of them.
>
> When and wheredoes the school work come in with homeschooling???
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 09:46:19 -0600
> From: "Debbie" <onehundredacrewood@...>
> Subject: Re: What is "well rounded" anyway?
>
> I have been wondering something along these lines too.
> Specifically, how would you veteran unschoolers handle a child who,
> when given total freedom to direct their own learning, will choose to
> plop down in front of the television set or their Gameboy every day,
> rather than go outdoors to inspect nature, or read a book, or do a
> baking or science project, or do any physical activity, etc.? I
> realize television can be educational, but what if that was all the
> child ever wanted to do? OK, I can see an obvious answer - get rid of
> the television! LOL, but seriously, even if there is no TV in your
> home, how would you handle a child who is lazy about anything to do
> with education, such as writing or reading something now and then,
> etc.?
> Debbie
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The concern expressed was basically "if I don't force my kids
> to learn certain things, they will not be 'well rounded'"
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 09:24:32 -0600
> From: "J. Stauffer" <jnjstau@...>
> Subject: Re: mornings
>
> <<<When and wheredoes the school work come in with homeschooling???>>>
>
> You said you were wanting to unschool? There is often very little in
> unschooling that looks like schoolwork. The kids play, paint, do
> computer stuff, explore, etc.
>
> May I suggest reading some books by John Holt and reading some of the
> essays at www.unschooling.com
>
> Julie S.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Latoya Hanson
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 7:31 AM
> Subject: [unschoolingbasics] mornings
>
>
>
>
> My children are sleeping later and later in the mornings. I have
> been trying to give unschooling a chance so we can both learn more
> about it.
> They go to bed usually at 9pm and don't awake until 9am.
> So I decided to have bed time earlier, 7:30pm, for the past 2 days.
> They are waking at 8am. It takes them about a half hour to be up.
>
> Then to eat and get dressed, takes an hour. so by time they are
> done, it will be 10:30. my kids ages are 10,3,1. the 3 and 1 year
> old NEEDS to go down for a nap by 1:30.
>
> I have to start cooking by 3pm.I work in the evenings when my
> husband comes home so I want to do things with them in the mornings.
>
> The little time we get between 10:30-12 is spent fussing over who
> needs my attention. Because the 10 year old wants to have more of my
> attention than the smaller children.
>
> Also if I don't think of something to do between those times, the 10
> year old either wants to watch TV or paint or play games on the
> computer. My 3 year old is always so busy doing something and the
> one year old follows. Some times the 10 year old will follow the
> two of them.
>
> When and wheredoes the school work come in with homeschooling???
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
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> _______________________________________________________________________
> _
>
>
>
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Fetteroll

on 2/3/05 12:32 PM, Julia Berkley at juliaberkley@... wrote:

> but I do have to gain
> approval of an ed plan and submit a progress report at the end of the
> year.

Your wording is making it sound like you're in MA. And it's sounding like
you're giving them more information than you need to in your progress
report.

I use the "ed plan" at:

http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingcurriculum.html

There are links to two more at the bottom of that page.

Here's what I sent 2 years ago when she was in "6th grade". I don't plan to
do anything differently when she's in high school -- except divide it up
into different subjects ;-)

> Reading: Reading an adult level book slowly. Comprehends well and reads
> complex instructions for meaning.
>
> Writing, spelling, grammar: Nintendo Writing Class and Dungeons and Dragons
> Writing Class. Also continues to write prolifically, both comic books and
> beginning to dabble in fiction writing. Spelling is decent. She seems to have
> more problems with common words (such as spelling never as neaver) that she¹s
> been spelling wrong long enough that the wrong spelling look familiar than new
> and more complex words. But even the misspelling of familiar words are
> becoming fewer with time. She loves the spell checker on the computer which is
> probably responsible for improvement of her spelling of common words.
>
> Science: Pony care camp, gardening. Fascinated by anthropology and delving
> into that.
>
> Math: Programming games which involves algebra. Origami for geometry. Working
> her way through a computer Algebra program and a beginning Algebra book with
> her father.
>
> History/Social studies: Beginning Century Kids series that will follow an
> American family decade by decade from 1900 to 2000. World mythology. Dabbling
> in both American and history of Western Civilization. Did a lot of traveling:
> LA, Albequerque, South Carolina, Maine, New York, Pennsylvania, Las Vegas.
>
> Health: Becoming personally aware and concerned about nutrition and exercise.
> Working on increasing her endurance by jogging around the track.
>
> Art and music: Drawing nearly every day. Listening to a variety of music,
> getting into parodies which sparks a curiosity about the originals.

Joyce