sleep question
odiniella
I have three kids, the two older ones have sleep schedules that have
evolved according to their own styles (ages 17 and 14). My youngest
one (12) is throwing me for a loop.
My concern is over his anxiety over getting to sleep on his own.
Because he stays up until he's the last one awake, his sleep schedule is
quite late, which means he sleeps in quite late (maybe around 2pm
daily). The immediate and practical challenge is with him getting
enough sleep for those days when we want to do things as a family that
require us to leave the house before 3pm, but my real goal is helping
him identify and find a solution to whatever it is about falling asleep
that makes him want to avoid it until he can't keep his eyes open. He's
always been hesitant to go to bed alone but I just can't figure out how
to help him help himself with this. For various reasons, sharing a
bedroom with his siblings or with us don't work.
Any ideas?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
evolved according to their own styles (ages 17 and 14). My youngest
one (12) is throwing me for a loop.
My concern is over his anxiety over getting to sleep on his own.
Because he stays up until he's the last one awake, his sleep schedule is
quite late, which means he sleeps in quite late (maybe around 2pm
daily). The immediate and practical challenge is with him getting
enough sleep for those days when we want to do things as a family that
require us to leave the house before 3pm, but my real goal is helping
him identify and find a solution to whatever it is about falling asleep
that makes him want to avoid it until he can't keep his eyes open. He's
always been hesitant to go to bed alone but I just can't figure out how
to help him help himself with this. For various reasons, sharing a
bedroom with his siblings or with us don't work.
Any ideas?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
"odiniella" <hgaimari@...> wrote:
---Meredith
> The immediate and practical challenge is with him gettingHow often are those? If they're not all that frequent, then it may not be a big deal for him to not have enough sleep - he'll catch up the next night. It's one of the advantages of being young ;) Or you can make arrangements for him to nap - in the car, perhaps, on the way to or from whatever you're doing, or plan a rest break with his needs in mind.
> enough sleep for those days when we want to do things as a family that
> require us to leave the house before 3pm
>He'sIt could very well be that's the need he's not getting met: the need for human company when settling into sleep. It's really not uncommon for people to prefer Not to sleep alone - at any age. He doesn't have the option of sleeping in company, so he's figured something out - he has already helped himself in that sense. If you can find a way to meet his real need, that's a way you could help. Can you lie down with him while he falls asleep, and get up and move to your own bed later? If not, well, he has a plan which works for him.
> always been hesitant to go to bed alone but I just can't figure out how
> to help him help himself with this.
---Meredith
Debra Rossing
DS often just sleeps on the couch - he didn't like leaving where people are because he might 'miss' something fun. At 6 or 7, he'd usually come up to bed when I went up to sleep (I have to get up for work in the morning) because a sleeping mom isn't as much fun as snuggling with an awake mom to go to sleep. Now, at nigh 14, he often stays up until all hours - sometimes I kiss him goodbye as I head off to work and he heads to sleep! We typically leave the weather channel on as sort of 'people in the room' sounds for him. If leaving the common area to go to someplace away from people is part of the situation, maybe arrange some way to allow for him to fall asleep if he chooses on a couch, beanbag nest, sleeping bag.
Currently, DS' preference for the couch is handy because he's content with his laptop and the TV and the couch in the living room and his room is being used as a guest room (with his permission ahead of time) for a friend who moved back up here but needed a place to live until she gets settled in a permanent job. Our other guest room (the one that is actually a guest room) is the abode of SIL (hubby's youngest sis) while she's getting herself sorted out after losing jobs and such.
Deb R
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Currently, DS' preference for the couch is handy because he's content with his laptop and the TV and the couch in the living room and his room is being used as a guest room (with his permission ahead of time) for a friend who moved back up here but needed a place to live until she gets settled in a permanent job. Our other guest room (the one that is actually a guest room) is the abode of SIL (hubby's youngest sis) while she's getting herself sorted out after losing jobs and such.
Deb R
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cnj995
I have a similar situation with my 12 year old. He has great difficulty getting to sleep at a traditional hour. He is full of energy in the evening (even when he is up early) and doesn't usually fall asleep until 2 am or later. He has AS and increased anxiety about not being able to fall asleep. We have tried many things: getting up early, strict "lights out" time, extra exercise when he is up during the day, melatonin, etc. These things tended to increase his anxiety not to mention family members giving him a hard time about sleeping in. He usually gets 6-8 hours of sleep just not when everyone else is sleeping. Homeschooling allows us great flexibiltiy in this area(thank goodness). We have an appt. with his doctor this week and I am planning to inquire about a sleep study to rule out any physical issues. Will keep you posted if anything interesting comes up.
--- In [email protected], "odiniella" <hgaimari@...> wrote:
>
> I have three kids, the two older ones have sleep schedules that have
> evolved according to their own styles (ages 17 and 14). My youngest
> one (12) is throwing me for a loop.
>
> My concern is over his anxiety over getting to sleep on his own.
> Because he stays up until he's the last one awake, his sleep schedule is
> quite late, which means he sleeps in quite late (maybe around 2pm
> daily). The immediate and practical challenge is with him getting
> enough sleep for those days when we want to do things as a family that
> require us to leave the house before 3pm, but my real goal is helping
> him identify and find a solution to whatever it is about falling asleep
> that makes him want to avoid it until he can't keep his eyes open. He's
> always been hesitant to go to bed alone but I just can't figure out how
> to help him help himself with this. For various reasons, sharing a
> bedroom with his siblings or with us don't work.
>
> Any ideas?
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
odiniella
--- In [email protected], "Meredith"
<plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
night. It's one of the advantages of being young ;) Or you can make
arrangements for him to nap - in the car, perhaps, on the way to or from
whatever you're doing, or plan a rest break with his needs in mind.
Many weekends, and during the week his sister would like to get out of
the house. I'm not comfortable with him being alone so much. I don't
think he likes to be home alone either. As I'm thinking about this, I'm
wondering if some of this couldn't be solved by finding more enticing
things out of the house. He told me yesterday he wants to get back into
martial arts. He's also starting to play his guitar more and has a
really informal, fun lesson once a week. Perhaps it's just a matter of
him having something to get up for. I'm not sure. Still thinking...
Thanks for the ideas, everyone.
:)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
> How often are those? If they're not all that frequent, then it may notbe a big deal for him to not have enough sleep - he'll catch up the next
night. It's one of the advantages of being young ;) Or you can make
arrangements for him to nap - in the car, perhaps, on the way to or from
whatever you're doing, or plan a rest break with his needs in mind.
Many weekends, and during the week his sister would like to get out of
the house. I'm not comfortable with him being alone so much. I don't
think he likes to be home alone either. As I'm thinking about this, I'm
wondering if some of this couldn't be solved by finding more enticing
things out of the house. He told me yesterday he wants to get back into
martial arts. He's also starting to play his guitar more and has a
really informal, fun lesson once a week. Perhaps it's just a matter of
him having something to get up for. I'm not sure. Still thinking...
Thanks for the ideas, everyone.
:)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
"cnj995" <cnj995@...> wrote:
Have you tried relaxing about the whole issue and looking for ways for him to feel comfortable and supported when he's up late? One of the biggest factors in sleep issues is often tension, especially tension around going to sleep.
What sorts of things does he like to do in the evenings? Can you actively look for more fun things to do at a later hour? Make his sleep schedule an opportunity for you to do new and interesting things.
---Meredith
> We have tried many things: getting up early, strict "lights out" time, extra exercise when he is up during the day, melatonin, etc. These things tended to increase his anxiety*******************
Have you tried relaxing about the whole issue and looking for ways for him to feel comfortable and supported when he's up late? One of the biggest factors in sleep issues is often tension, especially tension around going to sleep.
What sorts of things does he like to do in the evenings? Can you actively look for more fun things to do at a later hour? Make his sleep schedule an opportunity for you to do new and interesting things.
---Meredith
Meredith
"odiniella" <hgaimari@...> wrote:
At the same time, it could still be helpful to look for ways for him to get a little extra rest or a nap in the middle of the day if he tends to be tired. If his natural rhythm right now is running later, he can shift his schedule and end up needing a bit more sleep as a result because he's fighting against what his body "wants" to do.
---Meredith
>As I'm thinking about this, I'mThere ya go ;)
> wondering if some of this couldn't be solved by finding more enticing
> things out of the house.
At the same time, it could still be helpful to look for ways for him to get a little extra rest or a nap in the middle of the day if he tends to be tired. If his natural rhythm right now is running later, he can shift his schedule and end up needing a bit more sleep as a result because he's fighting against what his body "wants" to do.
---Meredith
odiniella
--- In [email protected], "Meredith"
<plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
to be tired. If his natural rhythm right now is running later, he can
shift his schedule and end up needing a bit more sleep as a result
because he's fighting against what his body "wants" to do.
about him not waking up at 4:00 and wondering where everyone is, then
not being able to sleep until 5:00am. It makes for a short day with
people and a long day by himself. What my boys really need is a 30 hour
day so they can get all the things in they want, and sleep the required
10-12 hours, but I'm not sure how to changes the laws of reality to bend
to my will.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
> There ya go ;)That put a smile on my face - thanks!
> At the same time, it could still be helpful to look for ways for himto get a little extra rest or a nap in the middle of the day if he tends
to be tired. If his natural rhythm right now is running later, he can
shift his schedule and end up needing a bit more sleep as a result
because he's fighting against what his body "wants" to do.
>He's not tired during the day so this is really just a practical issue
> ---Meredith
>
about him not waking up at 4:00 and wondering where everyone is, then
not being able to sleep until 5:00am. It makes for a short day with
people and a long day by himself. What my boys really need is a 30 hour
day so they can get all the things in they want, and sleep the required
10-12 hours, but I'm not sure how to changes the laws of reality to bend
to my will.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Debra Rossing
>. What my boys really need is a 30 hour day so they can get all the things in they want, and sleep the required 10-12 hours, but I'm not sure how to changes the laws of reality to bend to my will.LOL My boy has been on something akin to a 26-30 hr day since he was born. For those times when he's on the night shift (waking at 8 pm and falling asleep mid-morning), I deliberately focus on spending time with him for the couple of hours that we overlap. Sometimes it means that I stay 'up' a little extra - instead of heading up to watch a last hour of TV in bed, I stay down in the living room where DS is, for example. If it's a day when I'm working from home, I'll invite him to curl up in our big bed to sleep since my "office" space is adjacent (no intervening walls - kind of an extension onto the room). That way, we're still connected even though he's asleep and I'm "at work". And, too, if he's been on the night shift for a few weeks, with no signs of shifting, we try to figure out other ways to connect up - I might hang out and watch a really late movie with him on a Friday night, for example. Or, he might deliberately work at staying awake a bit longer (maybe an hour longer) to try to shift things a little bit so we have more time in the evening together (and we even plan some sort of 'date' together at that point). There have been times when he's wanted to do something specific that is a one-of event (not something he could do later or on a different day) that meant switching his schedule, so we create down time before and after so he can adjust. Often 'adjusting' means he'll stay up extra long so he'll be REALLY tired and fall asleep earlier/later as the case may be to 'jog' things a bit. And, too, there are things that we wake him up for (with his consent and discussion) which will affect his sleep schedule - sometimes he'll end up napping a bit, other times it just puts him in a shifted sleep schedule for a time.
Deb R
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[email protected]
Good luck with that bending reality thing.
I have found that it is more realistic to accept that I am a size 14 rather than starve myself unsuccessfully and otherwise drive myself nuts thinking I "should" be a size 10. :)
Does he actually wonder where everyone is at 4? Or is he OK with being alone? If there's something he wants to do during the day, is he able to plan ahead and adjust his sleeping for a few days? It takes practice from what I have seen with DS but it can be done.
Nance
I have found that it is more realistic to accept that I am a size 14 rather than starve myself unsuccessfully and otherwise drive myself nuts thinking I "should" be a size 10. :)
Does he actually wonder where everyone is at 4? Or is he OK with being alone? If there's something he wants to do during the day, is he able to plan ahead and adjust his sleeping for a few days? It takes practice from what I have seen with DS but it can be done.
Nance
--- In [email protected], "odiniella" <hgaimari@...> wrote:
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "Meredith"
> <plaidpanties666@> wrote:
> > There ya go ;)
>
> That put a smile on my face - thanks!
>
> > At the same time, it could still be helpful to look for ways for him
> to get a little extra rest or a nap in the middle of the day if he tends
> to be tired. If his natural rhythm right now is running later, he can
> shift his schedule and end up needing a bit more sleep as a result
> because he's fighting against what his body "wants" to do.
> >
> > ---Meredith
> >
>
>
> He's not tired during the day so this is really just a practical issue
> about him not waking up at 4:00 and wondering where everyone is, then
> not being able to sleep until 5:00am. It makes for a short day with
> people and a long day by himself. What my boys really need is a 30 hour
> day so they can get all the things in they want, and sleep the required
> 10-12 hours, but I'm not sure how to changes the laws of reality to bend
> to my will.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
odiniella
--- In [email protected], "marbleface@..."
<marbleface@...> wrote:
plan ahead and adjust his sleeping for a few days? It takes practice
from what I have seen .with DS but it can be done.
about my own, quiet home these days, ahhh). When he came down he asked
where everyone was. I told him and he thanked me for being around. He
doesn't like to be alone (like Deb R said, just being around is
"connecting" in some way even if most of us are asleep). Today I had
plans with my daughter to do something in another city. We would have
been gone for 5-6 hours. That's too much for him (way too much), and so
we did something nearby (much to the disappointment of my daughter).
But that's the kind of thing that makes this sleep schedule
inconvenient. I woke him up to let him know we were going (he knows he
can fall back asleep because his older brother was home). We talked
about this plan last night at supper but for some reason the moment it
was happening (as he was waking up), it was too anxiety-provoking for
him. He was invited to come and I think he might have had he been well
rested and had something to eat, ect. Instead, we changed our plans to
accommodate his. I didn't mind, but my daughter really did, but she's
quite and sweet and keeps it locked up inside :( . I don't mean to
imply it's all his fault or anything like that, I don't think there's
any "fault" here at all, just competing needs and I'm not sure how to
accommodate them all when they conflict with each other, as I think they
just innocently do.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<marbleface@...> wrote:
> Does he actually wonder where everyone is at 4? Or is he OK with beingalone? If there's something he wants to do during the day, is he able to
plan ahead and adjust his sleeping for a few days? It takes practice
from what I have seen .with DS but it can be done.
>This past weekend everyone else went off and I stayed home (something
> Nance
about my own, quiet home these days, ahhh). When he came down he asked
where everyone was. I told him and he thanked me for being around. He
doesn't like to be alone (like Deb R said, just being around is
"connecting" in some way even if most of us are asleep). Today I had
plans with my daughter to do something in another city. We would have
been gone for 5-6 hours. That's too much for him (way too much), and so
we did something nearby (much to the disappointment of my daughter).
But that's the kind of thing that makes this sleep schedule
inconvenient. I woke him up to let him know we were going (he knows he
can fall back asleep because his older brother was home). We talked
about this plan last night at supper but for some reason the moment it
was happening (as he was waking up), it was too anxiety-provoking for
him. He was invited to come and I think he might have had he been well
rested and had something to eat, ect. Instead, we changed our plans to
accommodate his. I didn't mind, but my daughter really did, but she's
quite and sweet and keeps it locked up inside :( . I don't mean to
imply it's all his fault or anything like that, I don't think there's
any "fault" here at all, just competing needs and I'm not sure how to
accommodate them all when they conflict with each other, as I think they
just innocently do.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
odiniella
--- In [email protected], Debra Rossing
<debra.rossing@...> wrote:
When I find the trick to bending the laws of reality to one's will, I
promise to share!
But I have a couple questions, if you don't mind.
How old is your son, and what do you do on those days he has the "night
shift"? How do you accommodate his sleep needs with the needs of
everyone in your family (assuming it's more than just you and him)?
I guess I'm trying to figure out how to accommodate different needs
which, through no fault of anyone, conflict with the needs of each other
in some ways.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<debra.rossing@...> wrote:
> LOL My boy has been on something akin to a 26-30 hr day since he wasborn.
When I find the trick to bending the laws of reality to one's will, I
promise to share!
But I have a couple questions, if you don't mind.
How old is your son, and what do you do on those days he has the "night
shift"? How do you accommodate his sleep needs with the needs of
everyone in your family (assuming it's more than just you and him)?
I guess I'm trying to figure out how to accommodate different needs
which, through no fault of anyone, conflict with the needs of each other
in some ways.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
"odiniella" <hgaimari@...> wrote:
It could also be an introvert/extravert issue. One of my kids likes to be out and about a lot, and the other doesn't. In fact, there have been times when Ray was home a lot when Mo didn't want to go anywhere at all - she got all her social needs met just from having him around, and any more than that was overwhelming. I thought of that when you mentioned going out with your girls - they seem to want to be out waaaaay more than Mo would.
So there may still be competing needs - or on some level he may have switched to a night schedule so that he could stay home. If he's ready to be out and about more, then shifting back to days is part of that. I'm just "thinking out loud" here.
---Meredith
> We talkedThat doesn't actually seem like a sleep issue so much as an anxiety issue - there are plenty of reasons during the day for a person to be out of sorts, hungry, tired, in the middle of something else and not wanting to transition... It's something to keep in the back of your mind - you may be pinning the problems on "sleep" because it seems like an easy thing to change/fix.
> about this plan last night at supper but for some reason the moment it
> was happening (as he was waking up), it was too anxiety-provoking for
> him. He was invited to come and I think he might have had he been well
> rested and had something to eat, ect. Instead, we changed our plans to
> accommodate his.
It could also be an introvert/extravert issue. One of my kids likes to be out and about a lot, and the other doesn't. In fact, there have been times when Ray was home a lot when Mo didn't want to go anywhere at all - she got all her social needs met just from having him around, and any more than that was overwhelming. I thought of that when you mentioned going out with your girls - they seem to want to be out waaaaay more than Mo would.
So there may still be competing needs - or on some level he may have switched to a night schedule so that he could stay home. If he's ready to be out and about more, then shifting back to days is part of that. I'm just "thinking out loud" here.
---Meredith
odiniella
--- In [email protected], "Meredith"
<plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
to be out and about more, then shifting back to days is part of that.
I'm just "thinking out loud" here.
and I think your'e right. This isn't a sleep issue but sleep is simply
easy to identify, easy to try and find a fix. Certainly there's some
anxiety that needs to be considered.
So if I can pick your collective brains some more, I'd like to hear some
ideas about meeting different needs when they don't conform to each
other. Sadly, we haven't been able to find things near us that satisfy
either of their desires. They often conflict (what works for one would
be torture for the other), so over time we've gotten into a rut of
hanging out at home, playing video games or on the computer.
They both learn things while they're playing, which suits me fine, but
they are getting restless. I think I've figured out the next thing for
my son, but I'm at a loss for my daughter. I think I'll start a new
question for that, but I'd like to hear how people generally
accommodate the needs of kids whose needs conflict.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
> So there may still be competing needs - or on some level he may haveswitched to a night schedule so that he could stay home. If he's ready
to be out and about more, then shifting back to days is part of that.
I'm just "thinking out loud" here.
>I appreciate it. I've been twisting this around in my head a lot lately
> ---Meredith
>
and I think your'e right. This isn't a sleep issue but sleep is simply
easy to identify, easy to try and find a fix. Certainly there's some
anxiety that needs to be considered.
So if I can pick your collective brains some more, I'd like to hear some
ideas about meeting different needs when they don't conform to each
other. Sadly, we haven't been able to find things near us that satisfy
either of their desires. They often conflict (what works for one would
be torture for the other), so over time we've gotten into a rut of
hanging out at home, playing video games or on the computer.
They both learn things while they're playing, which suits me fine, but
they are getting restless. I think I've figured out the next thing for
my son, but I'm at a loss for my daughter. I think I'll start a new
question for that, but I'd like to hear how people generally
accommodate the needs of kids whose needs conflict.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Debra Rossing
But I have a couple questions, if you don't mind.
How old is your son, and what do you do on those days he has the "night shift"? How do you accommodate his sleep needs with the needs of
everyone in your family (assuming it's more than just you and him)?
He's almost 14 now, but this is not 'new' with the advent of the teen years. It's maybe a little more pronounced than when he was 5 or 6, but the tendency was still there. There are 3 in the family, 5 in the household currently. There's me, hubby, and DS. Then there's also SIL and a long-time friend of ours who needed housing while job hunting. They do their own thing so there's not much of an issue there as far as schedules, but it does mean that there's often someone else coming or going (even if hubby and I may be out for a time). We also don't have other kids to work things out with (which helps). On the days he's on the night shift, I get up and go to work as usual (8-5 job, leave the house around 7:20 am, get home around 5:20 pm). Hubby is usually up when I get up as well. If DS is still awake at that point, he often has breakfast with us before curling up to sleep (it's kind of his dinner is our breakfast - we've had fun trying to come up with new words for this sort of thing!) Hubby will do housework, play videogames, do yard work (if needed), prepare food - as I type (working from home today), hubby is making cinnamon rolls and DS is probably eating something, having just gotten up about an hour ago. It's been easier the last couple of years when we've all been more comfortable with him being home "alone" (we don't expect our "boarders" to be childcare) - we'll leave a note if we're leaving when he's asleep, he's got a cell phone to be in touch, etc. Previously, we mostly just tried to have one of us home if he was asleep during the day - there weren't many things that required both of us, especially since I'm usually at work during the week anyhow. And, now we've only got the one vehicle so if hubby and DS want to do something, it gets scheduled in advance anyhow (so DS knows the timing, sleeping, etc). The only thing that his sleep schedule impacts, to some extent, is that he sleeps on the living room couch (he graciously ceded his sleeping quarters to our houseguest) so that limits seating somewhat and we try not to be too terribly loud or have lots of company over when he's sleeping. Which isn't hard since we don't have lots of loud company very often anyway LOL He can sleep through videogame sounds and the sounds of the usual household stuff, including the grain mill whirring like a jet engine in the next room!
--Deb R
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How old is your son, and what do you do on those days he has the "night shift"? How do you accommodate his sleep needs with the needs of
everyone in your family (assuming it's more than just you and him)?
He's almost 14 now, but this is not 'new' with the advent of the teen years. It's maybe a little more pronounced than when he was 5 or 6, but the tendency was still there. There are 3 in the family, 5 in the household currently. There's me, hubby, and DS. Then there's also SIL and a long-time friend of ours who needed housing while job hunting. They do their own thing so there's not much of an issue there as far as schedules, but it does mean that there's often someone else coming or going (even if hubby and I may be out for a time). We also don't have other kids to work things out with (which helps). On the days he's on the night shift, I get up and go to work as usual (8-5 job, leave the house around 7:20 am, get home around 5:20 pm). Hubby is usually up when I get up as well. If DS is still awake at that point, he often has breakfast with us before curling up to sleep (it's kind of his dinner is our breakfast - we've had fun trying to come up with new words for this sort of thing!) Hubby will do housework, play videogames, do yard work (if needed), prepare food - as I type (working from home today), hubby is making cinnamon rolls and DS is probably eating something, having just gotten up about an hour ago. It's been easier the last couple of years when we've all been more comfortable with him being home "alone" (we don't expect our "boarders" to be childcare) - we'll leave a note if we're leaving when he's asleep, he's got a cell phone to be in touch, etc. Previously, we mostly just tried to have one of us home if he was asleep during the day - there weren't many things that required both of us, especially since I'm usually at work during the week anyhow. And, now we've only got the one vehicle so if hubby and DS want to do something, it gets scheduled in advance anyhow (so DS knows the timing, sleeping, etc). The only thing that his sleep schedule impacts, to some extent, is that he sleeps on the living room couch (he graciously ceded his sleeping quarters to our houseguest) so that limits seating somewhat and we try not to be too terribly loud or have lots of company over when he's sleeping. Which isn't hard since we don't have lots of loud company very often anyway LOL He can sleep through videogame sounds and the sounds of the usual household stuff, including the grain mill whirring like a jet engine in the next room!
--Deb R
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Debra Rossing
Are there ways to "bring home along" when going out? For DS, even though he's an only, there were times when both DH and I needed to be someplace, thus he'd have to come along (in his younger days, now he's old enough to be home for a time on his own - I make sure his cell phone is charged and there are accessible foods on hand for him). We'd take his 'to go' bag along - usually consisted of water bottle, snack, reading material, drawing stuff (sketchpad, favorite fine point markers), Nintendo DS and headphones. That way, we could find him a space to be in without having to be involved or interact as much - even if the place we were was at church (yes, he sat in church with his DS and headphones on many occasions!)
It takes some thinking and planning but there are often more options than go or don't go - timing things (such as having at least one day at home between 'events'; afternoons vs. mornings; quieter days of the week for the venue; etc); number of people and places in a given day - we found that any more than 3 "going out" days in a week and any more than two stops on a given trip were just too much for DS. No matter how much he usually liked stop number 3 or day number 4's plans, it would be more difficult. So, we'd prioritize and plan in advance - we found which days were quieter at the science center, the park, the library's children's room, etc. We'd even do the grocery shopping in the evening on a Tuesday (for example) because it's less crazy than on Saturday morning if DS wanted to go along; combining a favorite thing for each party - for instance, when DS was young enough not to stay home alone, we'd often combine a trip to the hardware store with a stop at Starbuck's or a favorite local ice cream place. That way both DH and DS got something they liked in the trip.
Also, I try to make sure that if I need to wake DS for something that (a) I am fed, rested, and ready to go, everything we need is packed/gathered/prepared BEFORE I even start to wake him, that way I can focus on him and not on a dozen other things (b) I have in mind several options of foods that he likes that can be prepared in the time available before we're planning to leave. Sometimes it can take him 5 or 10 minutes to just be awake enough to even think about eating but if he doesn't eat things will go downhill really fast. For a time, we'd budget each week (time and money) for a stop at Dunkin Donuts on Sunday morning so he could get a breakfast sandwich. Then, we started just getting the ingredients for a breakfast sandwich - ham, cheese, English muffin (for example). Now he's not so much wanting that particularly but there are other options we try to have available. (c) breathe - I need to remind myself to just breathe sometimes, stop talking, stop moving, just sit and breathe a bit. If I start getting time-stressed and edgy, it projects to him and makes it all that much harder for him to start moving toward being ready to go.
--Deb R
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It takes some thinking and planning but there are often more options than go or don't go - timing things (such as having at least one day at home between 'events'; afternoons vs. mornings; quieter days of the week for the venue; etc); number of people and places in a given day - we found that any more than 3 "going out" days in a week and any more than two stops on a given trip were just too much for DS. No matter how much he usually liked stop number 3 or day number 4's plans, it would be more difficult. So, we'd prioritize and plan in advance - we found which days were quieter at the science center, the park, the library's children's room, etc. We'd even do the grocery shopping in the evening on a Tuesday (for example) because it's less crazy than on Saturday morning if DS wanted to go along; combining a favorite thing for each party - for instance, when DS was young enough not to stay home alone, we'd often combine a trip to the hardware store with a stop at Starbuck's or a favorite local ice cream place. That way both DH and DS got something they liked in the trip.
Also, I try to make sure that if I need to wake DS for something that (a) I am fed, rested, and ready to go, everything we need is packed/gathered/prepared BEFORE I even start to wake him, that way I can focus on him and not on a dozen other things (b) I have in mind several options of foods that he likes that can be prepared in the time available before we're planning to leave. Sometimes it can take him 5 or 10 minutes to just be awake enough to even think about eating but if he doesn't eat things will go downhill really fast. For a time, we'd budget each week (time and money) for a stop at Dunkin Donuts on Sunday morning so he could get a breakfast sandwich. Then, we started just getting the ingredients for a breakfast sandwich - ham, cheese, English muffin (for example). Now he's not so much wanting that particularly but there are other options we try to have available. (c) breathe - I need to remind myself to just breathe sometimes, stop talking, stop moving, just sit and breathe a bit. If I start getting time-stressed and edgy, it projects to him and makes it all that much harder for him to start moving toward being ready to go.
--Deb R
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[email protected]
How old is he again? Old enough to understand that you are reachable by phone but that both you and your daughter have things you want to do that don't fit with his sleep schedule?
Nance
Nance
--- In [email protected], "odiniella" <hgaimari@...> wrote:
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "marbleface@"
> <marbleface@> wrote:
>
> > Does he actually wonder where everyone is at 4? Or is he OK with being
> alone? If there's something he wants to do during the day, is he able to
> plan ahead and adjust his sleeping for a few days? It takes practice
> from what I have seen .with DS but it can be done.
> >
> > Nance
>
>
>
> This past weekend everyone else went off and I stayed home (something
> about my own, quiet home these days, ahhh). When he came down he asked
> where everyone was. I told him and he thanked me for being around. He
> doesn't like to be alone (like Deb R said, just being around is
> "connecting" in some way even if most of us are asleep). Today I had
> plans with my daughter to do something in another city. We would have
> been gone for 5-6 hours. That's too much for him (way too much), and so
> we did something nearby (much to the disappointment of my daughter).
> But that's the kind of thing that makes this sleep schedule
> inconvenient. I woke him up to let him know we were going (he knows he
> can fall back asleep because his older brother was home). We talked
> about this plan last night at supper but for some reason the moment it
> was happening (as he was waking up), it was too anxiety-provoking for
> him. He was invited to come and I think he might have had he been well
> rested and had something to eat, ect. Instead, we changed our plans to
> accommodate his. I didn't mind, but my daughter really did, but she's
> quite and sweet and keeps it locked up inside :( . I don't mean to
> imply it's all his fault or anything like that, I don't think there's
> any "fault" here at all, just competing needs and I'm not sure how to
> accommodate them all when they conflict with each other, as I think they
> just innocently do.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
odiniella
Thanks for sharing! That was helpful to read.
--- In [email protected], Debra Rossing
<debra.rossing@...> wrote:
the tendency was still there. There are 3 in the family, 5 in the
household currently. There's me, hubby, and DS. Then there's also SIL
and a long-time friend of ours who needed housing while job hunting.
They do their own thing so there's not much of an issue there as far as
schedules, but it does mean that there's often someone else coming or
going (even if hubby and I may be out for a time). We also don't have
other kids to work things out with (which helps). On the days he's on
the night shift, I get up and go to work as usual (8-5 job, leave the
house around 7:20 am, get home around 5:20 pm). Hubby is usually up when
I get up as well. If DS is still awake at that point, he often has
breakfast with us before curling up to sleep (it's kind of his dinner is
our breakfast - we've had fun trying to come up with new words for this
sort of thing!) Hubby will do housework, play videogames, do yard work
(if needed), prepare food - as I type (working from home today), hubby
is making cinnamon rolls and DS is probably eating something, having
just gotten up about an hour ago. It's been easier the last couple of
years when we've all been more comfortable with him being home "alone"
(we don't expect our "boarders" to be childcare) - we'll leave a note if
we're leaving when he's asleep, he's got a cell phone to be in touch,
etc. Previously, we mostly just tried to have one of us home if he was
asleep during the day - there weren't many things that required both of
us, especially since I'm usually at work during the week anyhow. And,
now we've only got the one vehicle so if hubby and DS want to do
something, it gets scheduled in advance anyhow (so DS knows the timing,
sleeping, etc). The only thing that his sleep schedule impacts, to some
extent, is that he sleeps on the living room couch (he graciously ceded
his sleeping quarters to our houseguest) so that limits seating somewhat
and we try not to be too terribly loud or have lots of company over when
he's sleeping. Which isn't hard since we don't have lots of loud company
very often anyway LOL He can sleep through videogame sounds and the
sounds of the usual household stuff, including the grain mill whirring
like a jet engine in the next room!
--- In [email protected], Debra Rossing
<debra.rossing@...> wrote:
>"night shift"? How do you accommodate his sleep needs with the needs of
> But I have a couple questions, if you don't mind.
>
> How old is your son, and what do you do on those days he has the
> everyone in your family (assuming it's more than just you and him)?years. It's maybe a little more pronounced than when he was 5 or 6, but
>
> He's almost 14 now, but this is not 'new' with the advent of the teen
the tendency was still there. There are 3 in the family, 5 in the
household currently. There's me, hubby, and DS. Then there's also SIL
and a long-time friend of ours who needed housing while job hunting.
They do their own thing so there's not much of an issue there as far as
schedules, but it does mean that there's often someone else coming or
going (even if hubby and I may be out for a time). We also don't have
other kids to work things out with (which helps). On the days he's on
the night shift, I get up and go to work as usual (8-5 job, leave the
house around 7:20 am, get home around 5:20 pm). Hubby is usually up when
I get up as well. If DS is still awake at that point, he often has
breakfast with us before curling up to sleep (it's kind of his dinner is
our breakfast - we've had fun trying to come up with new words for this
sort of thing!) Hubby will do housework, play videogames, do yard work
(if needed), prepare food - as I type (working from home today), hubby
is making cinnamon rolls and DS is probably eating something, having
just gotten up about an hour ago. It's been easier the last couple of
years when we've all been more comfortable with him being home "alone"
(we don't expect our "boarders" to be childcare) - we'll leave a note if
we're leaving when he's asleep, he's got a cell phone to be in touch,
etc. Previously, we mostly just tried to have one of us home if he was
asleep during the day - there weren't many things that required both of
us, especially since I'm usually at work during the week anyhow. And,
now we've only got the one vehicle so if hubby and DS want to do
something, it gets scheduled in advance anyhow (so DS knows the timing,
sleeping, etc). The only thing that his sleep schedule impacts, to some
extent, is that he sleeps on the living room couch (he graciously ceded
his sleeping quarters to our houseguest) so that limits seating somewhat
and we try not to be too terribly loud or have lots of company over when
he's sleeping. Which isn't hard since we don't have lots of loud company
very often anyway LOL He can sleep through videogame sounds and the
sounds of the usual household stuff, including the grain mill whirring
like a jet engine in the next room!
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> --Deb R
>
> **********************************************************************
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
> are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
> the system manager.
>
> This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
> MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
>
> www.mastercam.com
> **********************************************************************
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
odiniella
--- In [email protected], "marbleface@..."
<marbleface@...> wrote:
that don't fit with his sleep schedule?
much detail that would embarrass my other child, staying at home alone
for hours and hours with his older brother can create more anxiety than
I would ask of him. If it were a matter of him not wanting to be alone,
I could handle that and talk with him about it and we could work out a
plan. Instead, it's a matter of anxiety, and that I consider a need, not
a preference. There's no danger, no potential danger, but the anxiety
is still enough to take seriously.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<marbleface@...> wrote:
>by phone but that both you and your daughter have things you want to do
> How old is he again? Old enough to understand that you are reachable
that don't fit with his sleep schedule?
>Yes, but there are other issues at play here. Without going into too
> Nance
much detail that would embarrass my other child, staying at home alone
for hours and hours with his older brother can create more anxiety than
I would ask of him. If it were a matter of him not wanting to be alone,
I could handle that and talk with him about it and we could work out a
plan. Instead, it's a matter of anxiety, and that I consider a need, not
a preference. There's no danger, no potential danger, but the anxiety
is still enough to take seriously.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
Debra Rossing <debra.rossing@...> wrote:
---Meredith
>I want to second this, especially if its hard to find things All the kids want to do. My kids are 8yrs apart in age, so there were several years where there was very little intersection in their interests - plus Mo's not very social. So it helped to shift my thinking from "find things everyone likes" to "make it work for the kid who'd rather be home" by bring some of "home" along.
> Are there ways to "bring home along" when going out?
---Meredith
[email protected]
Does he need a lock on his room door? It's hard to discuss this since we don't know what the anxiety is about. Not that we need to know. But if that's the issue and not sleep schedules, then how can that be dealt with?
Nance
Nance
--- In [email protected], "odiniella" <hgaimari@...> wrote:
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "marbleface@"
> <marbleface@> wrote:
> >
> > How old is he again? Old enough to understand that you are reachable
> by phone but that both you and your daughter have things you want to do
> that don't fit with his sleep schedule?
> >
> > Nance
>
>
> Yes, but there are other issues at play here. Without going into too
> much detail that would embarrass my other child, staying at home alone
> for hours and hours with his older brother can create more anxiety than
> I would ask of him. If it were a matter of him not wanting to be alone,
> I could handle that and talk with him about it and we could work out a
> plan. Instead, it's a matter of anxiety, and that I consider a need, not
> a preference. There's no danger, no potential danger, but the anxiety
> is still enough to take seriously.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
odiniella
Thanks for understanding. He wouldn't need a lock on his door or
anything like that. I've been watching the kids closely and talking
with them and my impression is they're feeling restless at home but each
want different things to do outside the home. I'm thinking that if he
has something to leave the house for, he won't mind getting his sleep in
the night. So we found a parkour gym nearby and we'll check that out.
Hopefully he'll get back in the swing of keeping his body moving, thus
making sleep a welcome respite at the end of the day.
--- In [email protected], "marbleface@..."
<marbleface@...> wrote:
if that's the issue and not sleep schedules, then how can that be dealt
with?
anything like that. I've been watching the kids closely and talking
with them and my impression is they're feeling restless at home but each
want different things to do outside the home. I'm thinking that if he
has something to leave the house for, he won't mind getting his sleep in
the night. So we found a parkour gym nearby and we'll check that out.
Hopefully he'll get back in the swing of keeping his body moving, thus
making sleep a welcome respite at the end of the day.
--- In [email protected], "marbleface@..."
<marbleface@...> wrote:
>we don't know what the anxiety is about. Not that we need to know. But
> Does he need a lock on his room door? It's hard to discuss this since
if that's the issue and not sleep schedules, then how can that be dealt
with?
>reachable
> Nance
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "odiniella" hgaimari@ wrote:
> >
> >
> > --- In [email protected], "marbleface@"
> > <marbleface@> wrote:
> > >
> > > How old is he again? Old enough to understand that you are
> > by phone but that both you and your daughter have things you want todo
> > that don't fit with his sleep schedule?too
> > >
> > > Nance
> >
> >
> > Yes, but there are other issues at play here. Without going into
> > much detail that would embarrass my other child, staying at homealone
> > for hours and hours with his older brother can create more anxietythan
> > I would ask of him. If it were a matter of him not wanting to bealone,
> > I could handle that and talk with him about it and we could work outa
> > plan. Instead, it's a matter of anxiety, and that I consider a need,not
> > a preference. There's no danger, no potential danger, but theanxiety
> > is still enough to take seriously.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>