Eating all the time and everywhere?
messy_boys
I wanted to ask your suggestions on dealing the the whole food/snacks issue.
I really don't mind when they eat or where they eat - but - they leave huge messes everywhere. Dishes, trash, wrappers, crumbs and millions of cups! I swear they never use the same cup twice!!!
How can I make this more doable? I moved a smaller table into the living room, hoping that they would snack there (and cut back on the mess), but they still prefer to sit on the couch or floor. I also thought about writing their names on a cup, and maybe that would help cut back on that?
Thanks for any ideas,
Kristie
(six kids, ages 13, 10, 7, 5, 4 and 2)
I really don't mind when they eat or where they eat - but - they leave huge messes everywhere. Dishes, trash, wrappers, crumbs and millions of cups! I swear they never use the same cup twice!!!
How can I make this more doable? I moved a smaller table into the living room, hoping that they would snack there (and cut back on the mess), but they still prefer to sit on the couch or floor. I also thought about writing their names on a cup, and maybe that would help cut back on that?
Thanks for any ideas,
Kristie
(six kids, ages 13, 10, 7, 5, 4 and 2)
Stephanie Lavan
I've taken my children (and my nieces and nephew that were living with me
at the time) shopping at Goodwill for a favorite cup. Any cup would do, as
long as they loved it. The older girls picked out beautiful chunky wine
goblets and the younger guys found plastic cups with their favorite
character on them. I even found a coffee thermos that I really liked.
When we each had a favorite cup, I found that we wanted to use it all the
time! Then the kids didn't mind keeping their favorite cup clean (they
would rinse it out or they would ask to have it washed.) Even though I had
many other cups available, each child usually kept their own favorite cup.
Yes, there was (and still continues) to be a food/crumbs/plate mess around
our house, the multiplying cup issue was reduced because we all wanted to
use our favorite cup.
Stephanie
at the time) shopping at Goodwill for a favorite cup. Any cup would do, as
long as they loved it. The older girls picked out beautiful chunky wine
goblets and the younger guys found plastic cups with their favorite
character on them. I even found a coffee thermos that I really liked.
When we each had a favorite cup, I found that we wanted to use it all the
time! Then the kids didn't mind keeping their favorite cup clean (they
would rinse it out or they would ask to have it washed.) Even though I had
many other cups available, each child usually kept their own favorite cup.
Yes, there was (and still continues) to be a food/crumbs/plate mess around
our house, the multiplying cup issue was reduced because we all wanted to
use our favorite cup.
Stephanie
On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 8:33 AM, messy_boys <messy_boys@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> I wanted to ask your suggestions on dealing the the whole food/snacks
> issue.
>
> I really don't mind when they eat or where they eat - but - they leave
> huge messes everywhere. Dishes, trash, wrappers, crumbs and millions of
> cups! I swear they never use the same cup twice!!!
>
> How can I make this more doable? I moved a smaller table into the living
> room, hoping that they would snack there (and cut back on the mess), but
> they still prefer to sit on the couch or floor. I also thought about
> writing their names on a cup, and maybe that would help cut back on that?
>
> Thanks for any ideas,
> Kristie
>
> (six kids, ages 13, 10, 7, 5, 4 and 2)
>
>
>
--
Stephanie Lavan
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Debra Rossing
Are there convenient trash cans for the trash? Convenient small tables for snacking next to whatever they're doing? We've got half a dozen small stackable tables (knee high-ish) that can be stacked out of the way or pulled over next to the couch or wherever as needed. Taller/older folks would be reasonably okay sitting on the floor and using these as tables, toddlers could stand and use them (which we've done when cousins come to visit). Also, if there's a fav location/area for snacking (the area where they can see TV, play videogames, etc) maybe purchase inexpensive outdoor type table cloths (The ones with the non-slip backing designed for picnic tables) to put down for them to sit on - then just pick it up and shake it off outside, wipe it down as needed, ready to go again. Maybe each one can have their own 'travel tray' - inexpensive type trays of some sort they can put their stuff on then carry it back once in a while.
Deb R
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Why do they do this? Why isn't putting the dish or cup in the sink when you're done part of their routine? Garbage goes in the garbage can. Dirty dishes go in the sink. We eat all over the house and both kids have dishes in their rooms sometimes and all I do is ask them to bring their dishes and laundry out to be done. Eventually they do. Or if I'm there for some reason I pick up a bit. But mostly they know how to put the dirty stuff where it belongs.
Nance
Nance
--- In [email protected], "messy_boys" <messy_boys@...> wrote:
>
> I wanted to ask your suggestions on dealing the the whole food/snacks issue.
>
> I really don't mind when they eat or where they eat - but - they leave huge messes everywhere. Dishes, trash, wrappers, crumbs and millions of cups! I swear they never use the same cup twice!!!
>
> How can I make this more doable? I moved a smaller table into the living room, hoping that they would snack there (and cut back on the mess), but they still prefer to sit on the couch or floor. I also thought about writing their names on a cup, and maybe that would help cut back on that?
>
> Thanks for any ideas,
> Kristie
>
> (six kids, ages 13, 10, 7, 5, 4 and 2)
>
tlbtsrh
We all have a cup/bowl/plate each and it works well. We did get a lot of cups piling up before that. My younger 2 have favourite colours, my eldest has a favourite style, and we even have a green set(because it's like the hulk) for a little boy who visits regularly. They have no interest in using any others and they know which drink is theirs. They were always getting mixed up before. I've always had a favourite mug. I always take my time choosing it. Just the right size, just the right style to reflect my current phase. It's kinda comforting.
We have experimented with different meal times/number of meals and have found that every 3hrs seems to suit us all best so we have 5 meals a day. 8am, 11am, 2pm, 5pm and 8pm (roughly). That is when the kitchen is "open" and I am available to help with preparing food/clearing up etc... sometimes I'll prepare the food myself, sometimes with help from the kids. My oldest will miss the 8am,as she gets up later, but she's happy with that. They can help themselves to food at other times if they wish but they do not seem to as every 3 hrs seems to keep everyone happy. There isn't an endless "I'm hungry" any more. And everything can get cleaned up at once, again sometimes with help and sometimes not. Sometimes the meals do not even use dishes which is even better! There is usually a selection of foods available, so everyone does not need to eat the same things.
Thinking about principles rather than rules (which I have been thinking about a lot recently) Being thoughtful/considerate of others would be a good principle to encourage. If you were thoughtful, you wouldn't leave a mess everywhere because you'd know that someone else would have to pick up after you. But how do you do that within unschooling? My son does some things from habit, like taking his plate to the kitchen, but he'll also just leave a pile of sweet wrappers on the floor, therefore, not considering what happens to the sweet wrappers, or knowing that I'll pick them up, or that in the past they magically disappeared! I can remember my ex thinking that the toilet cleaned itself until we left! He never realised that I had been doing it as I'd never mentioned it!
Sarah
We have experimented with different meal times/number of meals and have found that every 3hrs seems to suit us all best so we have 5 meals a day. 8am, 11am, 2pm, 5pm and 8pm (roughly). That is when the kitchen is "open" and I am available to help with preparing food/clearing up etc... sometimes I'll prepare the food myself, sometimes with help from the kids. My oldest will miss the 8am,as she gets up later, but she's happy with that. They can help themselves to food at other times if they wish but they do not seem to as every 3 hrs seems to keep everyone happy. There isn't an endless "I'm hungry" any more. And everything can get cleaned up at once, again sometimes with help and sometimes not. Sometimes the meals do not even use dishes which is even better! There is usually a selection of foods available, so everyone does not need to eat the same things.
Thinking about principles rather than rules (which I have been thinking about a lot recently) Being thoughtful/considerate of others would be a good principle to encourage. If you were thoughtful, you wouldn't leave a mess everywhere because you'd know that someone else would have to pick up after you. But how do you do that within unschooling? My son does some things from habit, like taking his plate to the kitchen, but he'll also just leave a pile of sweet wrappers on the floor, therefore, not considering what happens to the sweet wrappers, or knowing that I'll pick them up, or that in the past they magically disappeared! I can remember my ex thinking that the toilet cleaned itself until we left! He never realised that I had been doing it as I'd never mentioned it!
Sarah
--- In [email protected], "marbleface@..." <marbleface@...> wrote:
>
> Why do they do this? Why isn't putting the dish or cup in the sink when you're done part of their routine? Garbage goes in the garbage can. Dirty dishes go in the sink. We eat all over the house and both kids have dishes in their rooms sometimes and all I do is ask them to bring their dishes and laundry out to be done. Eventually they do. Or if I'm there for some reason I pick up a bit. But mostly they know how to put the dirty stuff where it belongs.
>
> Nance
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "messy_boys" <messy_boys@> wrote:
> >
> > I wanted to ask your suggestions on dealing the the whole food/snacks issue.
> >
> > I really don't mind when they eat or where they eat - but - they leave huge messes everywhere. Dishes, trash, wrappers, crumbs and millions of cups! I swear they never use the same cup twice!!!
> >
> > How can I make this more doable? I moved a smaller table into the living room, hoping that they would snack there (and cut back on the mess), but they still prefer to sit on the couch or floor. I also thought about writing their names on a cup, and maybe that would help cut back on that?
> >
> > Thanks for any ideas,
> > Kristie
> >
> > (six kids, ages 13, 10, 7, 5, 4 and 2)
> >
>
Meredith
"marbleface@..." <marbleface@...> wrote:
My daughter Just started doing this - she's 10. For years, it was too much for her to stop what she was doing just because something was empty - and empty thing wasn't nearly as important to her as what she was doing. It's still not important enough for her to stop in the middle of what she's doing to deal with some empty thing, but often when she's transitioning from one thing to another, she bring empty cups and plates to the sink, or tidy up a little bit.
Kids are busy people, busy learning and exploring and creating. In the grown-up world of work learning and exploring and creating very often trump cleaning up in terms of value. Sometimes an extra employee has the sole job of cleaning up after others. Other times, people stop and clean at logical transitional moments - sometimes that's the end of the day, or the week, other times at the end of a project and in between people work over and around one another's messes.
---Meredith
>**************
> Why do they do this? Why isn't putting the dish or cup in the sink when you're done part of their routine?
My daughter Just started doing this - she's 10. For years, it was too much for her to stop what she was doing just because something was empty - and empty thing wasn't nearly as important to her as what she was doing. It's still not important enough for her to stop in the middle of what she's doing to deal with some empty thing, but often when she's transitioning from one thing to another, she bring empty cups and plates to the sink, or tidy up a little bit.
Kids are busy people, busy learning and exploring and creating. In the grown-up world of work learning and exploring and creating very often trump cleaning up in terms of value. Sometimes an extra employee has the sole job of cleaning up after others. Other times, people stop and clean at logical transitional moments - sometimes that's the end of the day, or the week, other times at the end of a project and in between people work over and around one another's messes.
---Meredith
Meredith
"tlbtsrh" <sarahtalbot@...> wrote:
The trouble with "encouraging" principles is that it can quickly become an attempt to teach lessons - or worse, turn into nagging! Your principles are Yours, those positive values which bubble up inside you like a smile. How do you encourage a smile? If you want to think about encouraging principles, think in those terms. You can't say "buck up, mister" and have someone magically learn about happiness. And you can tell someone "you need to be more thoughtful" and have that somehow translate in that person having the perspective you'd like.
It's thoughtful to keep in mind that young children have a hard time seeing past their own needs and that this is developmental. They'll Grow into a broader perspective - and realistically, they'll grow into it more easily if that perspective isn't occluded by a lot of vague, muddy half-rules like "be thoughtful". It's also thoughtful to look for alternatives which meet a range of needs.
Individual cups is one idea. Disposables is another. Regular "kitchen times" is a good one! Someone suggested more tables and garbage cans right where the kids tend to eat. Another option could be to put down a sheet or tablecloth on the couch and floor and change it regularly.
---Meredith
>> Thinking about principles rather than rules (which I have been thinking about a lot recently) Being thoughtful/considerate of others would be a good principle to encourage.*************
The trouble with "encouraging" principles is that it can quickly become an attempt to teach lessons - or worse, turn into nagging! Your principles are Yours, those positive values which bubble up inside you like a smile. How do you encourage a smile? If you want to think about encouraging principles, think in those terms. You can't say "buck up, mister" and have someone magically learn about happiness. And you can tell someone "you need to be more thoughtful" and have that somehow translate in that person having the perspective you'd like.
It's thoughtful to keep in mind that young children have a hard time seeing past their own needs and that this is developmental. They'll Grow into a broader perspective - and realistically, they'll grow into it more easily if that perspective isn't occluded by a lot of vague, muddy half-rules like "be thoughtful". It's also thoughtful to look for alternatives which meet a range of needs.
Individual cups is one idea. Disposables is another. Regular "kitchen times" is a good one! Someone suggested more tables and garbage cans right where the kids tend to eat. Another option could be to put down a sheet or tablecloth on the couch and floor and change it regularly.
---Meredith
Joyce Fetteroll
On Apr 25, 2012, at 6:15 PM, tlbtsrh wrote:
Ask him sweetly to pick them up when he has a break. Or put a trash can near where you usually find them. It might be noticeable enough to remind him. But it might not be.
When he's developmentally able, if you're sweet about asking him, he'll notice. But don't hold your breath ;-)
Joyce
> but he'll also just leave a pile of sweet wrappers on the floor, therefore,I would bet he doesn't even notice. His focus is elsewhere and he really can't developmentally even be aware.
> not considering what happens to the sweet wrappers, or knowing that
> I'll pick them up, or that in the past they magically disappeared!
Ask him sweetly to pick them up when he has a break. Or put a trash can near where you usually find them. It might be noticeable enough to remind him. But it might not be.
When he's developmentally able, if you're sweet about asking him, he'll notice. But don't hold your breath ;-)
Joyce
tlbtsrh
Joyce - Yes, he does pick them up when asked sweetly ;0)
Meredith - Thank you for clearing up principles for me. The one that keeps coming up as an example was to be kind, I wasn't sure what to do with it. It's like a "be the change you want to see" type of thing. If you yourself are tidy, with no fuss, and are happy to be so, and enjoy a clear living space to live/create/play/work/be then perhaps if others then see the value in it too they may (if they choose) mirror that in themselves.
Sarah
Meredith - Thank you for clearing up principles for me. The one that keeps coming up as an example was to be kind, I wasn't sure what to do with it. It's like a "be the change you want to see" type of thing. If you yourself are tidy, with no fuss, and are happy to be so, and enjoy a clear living space to live/create/play/work/be then perhaps if others then see the value in it too they may (if they choose) mirror that in themselves.
Sarah
--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Apr 25, 2012, at 6:15 PM, tlbtsrh wrote:
>
> > but he'll also just leave a pile of sweet wrappers on the floor, therefore,
> > not considering what happens to the sweet wrappers, or knowing that
> > I'll pick them up, or that in the past they magically disappeared!
>
> I would bet he doesn't even notice. His focus is elsewhere and he really can't developmentally even be aware.
>
> Ask him sweetly to pick them up when he has a break. Or put a trash can near where you usually find them. It might be noticeable enough to remind him. But it might not be.
>
> When he's developmentally able, if you're sweet about asking him, he'll notice. But don't hold your breath ;-)
>
> Joyce
>
Debra Rossing
Yup, Meredith - stopping right when something is done or empty doesn't work for adults even...as I sit here with an apple core on my desk here at work that needs to go to the compost bin in the kitchen. I'll get to it when I'm done with some other tasks (that are running as I type -I've got FOUR computers here in my little cube!) What we've noticed over time is that we graciously just picked up DS' cup/plate/wrapper when we're heading near the trash/sink, and now he'll do the same - if I'm sitting with an empty mug waiting for a commercial break to take it to the kitchen and he's taking a bathroom break from Minecraft, he'll often come collect the mug and take that to the kitchen on his way. It wasn't immediate, it took time and patience. When he was 5 or 6, clearing up was not on his radar most of the time, his priorities weren't the same as mine or hubby's. When we were doing 'house cleaning tasks' of an evening or Saturday, we'd let him know what the plan for the time was, invite him along to help when/if he chose. As he's now nearing 14, he'll assist when we ask for it, but it's on his own timeframe, same as if hubby asks for me to take the recycling bin from the kitchen to the big outdoor recycle bin, I'll usually do that when I'm heading in that direction (it may be right then, it might be 20 minutes later). Making it easy to do, allowing space for it to happen (realizing that it won't always be "Right now" when you want it), and not having expectations that an X yr old 'should' do this or that simply because they are that age. We've got two non-nuclear family folks (SIL and a friend of ours) sharing our living space right now (both over 21) and they are LESS likely to bring cups from their room to the sink, LESS likely to separate trash from recyclables, LESS likely to wash their own dishes (which is why we've banned food from the bedrooms to avoid bugs!) than DS (who has been careful about recycling since he was 4!) Some of it is their own 'issues' related to having been forced to do household tasks in the past (thus, in our non-coercive household, they don't do much), some of it is their own priorities/focus, and admittedly some is us not clearly stating the expectations (like not leaving half glasses of fruit juice sitting on a nightstand when it's "ant season"! or not providing convenient recycling collectors for their rooms - I realized when I went in to collect trash that most of what they dispose of is recyclable - but they only have one small trash can each - so when I put the small trash can back I also put a brown paper grocery bag labeled "Recycle" next to it)
Deb R
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Debra Rossing
> I would bet he doesn't even notice. His focus is elsewhere ...This doesn't only apply to kids though. I remember when I was pregnant and admittedly quite emotional and 'nesty' but I laid into DH one evening for how "messy" our wee apartment was. He was already doing all the cooking, vacuuming, laundry, and working full time!! He came and sat next to me to give me a shoulder to cry on while I ranted. Then, when I was calmer (a little bit anyway) I asked him to look around and see what needed to be done - he listed off a small handful of things. Then I listed off what I saw - BIG difference. It was an eye opener for both of us. So, now, if there's something that needs to be done, either I'll just do it or I'll ask for specific assistance. And, too, we've discussed our 'pet peeves', those particular things that make the hairs on the neck stand up. For instance, I REALLY hate when there are day old pasta sauce splatters on the stove top. Hubby hates having dishes piled up in the sink. So, we've worked out these things - We, together as partners, plan the time to do the dishes between dinner and sleep EVERY night, barring unusual things like flu and such. We add in wiping down the stovetop when doing dishes and wiping down the counter top. He prefers to do laundry once a week in one big swoop, so I assist him in sorting the dirty laundry into laundry loads and getting them down to the laundry area, then assist as needed with moving laundry washer to dryer to basket and bringing it up and sorting/folding/putting away. I start to get tense when the dog hair from our lab mix starts getting to the size of a Shih Tzu and tumbling around the room, so, if I can't get to it, he'll do it (even if sweeping is not his favorite thing - if I add it to MY to-do list and he's got time, he'll handle it for me, otherwise I just go ahead and do it when I get to it).
It's a lot more about partnering with the rest of the family members than it is about 'getting the kids to pick up after themselves'.
Deb R
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Right. I wasn't picturing jumping up when the last corn flake is gone. But taking the bowl along to the kitchen at the next natural break. If only for another snack. :)
Nance
Nance
--- In [email protected], "Meredith" <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
>
> "marbleface@" <marbleface@> wrote:
> >
> > Why do they do this? Why isn't putting the dish or cup in the sink when you're done part of their routine?
> **************
>
> My daughter Just started doing this - she's 10. For years, it was too much for her to stop what she was doing just because something was empty - and empty thing wasn't nearly as important to her as what she was doing. It's still not important enough for her to stop in the middle of what she's doing to deal with some empty thing, but often when she's transitioning from one thing to another, she bring empty cups and plates to the sink, or tidy up a little bit.
>
> Kids are busy people, busy learning and exploring and creating. In the grown-up world of work learning and exploring and creating very often trump cleaning up in terms of value. Sometimes an extra employee has the sole job of cleaning up after others. Other times, people stop and clean at logical transitional moments - sometimes that's the end of the day, or the week, other times at the end of a project and in between people work over and around one another's messes.
>
> ---Meredith
>
Meredith
"tlbtsrh" <sarahtalbot@...> wrote:
And if not, you Still get a tidier space, you Still get to be happy about that, and you Still get to feel good about yourself for doing something you value.
---Meredith
>It's like a "be the change you want to see" type of thing. If you yourself are tidy, with no fuss, and are happy to be so, and enjoy a clear living space to live/create/play/work/be then perhaps if others then see the value in it too they may (if they choose) mirror that in themselves.*******************
And if not, you Still get a tidier space, you Still get to be happy about that, and you Still get to feel good about yourself for doing something you value.
---Meredith