trying to make a decision about unschooling
yule189
Hi all,
my daughter is supposed to start Kindergarten this fall. The closer we get there, the more attracted I become to the idea of unschooling her, at least for the kindergarten year. here are a few reasons why I'd like unschooling:
1. I think a 5-year-old needs to be out playing as much as possible. I don't think it's very healthy for a 5-year-old to be stuck inside most of the day every day within a structured environment. I want her to be free a bit longer.
2. I was not unschooled, but the most meaningful things I learned were outside of school and in a way in spite of school. I did go to a pretty crappy school, though.
3. I want to be able to hang out with my daughter, do interesting things with her. I'm afraid that if she starts school, she'd be so exhausted that I would just want to let her rest for the rest of the day. Besides, there'll be just too little time to go places and do things. (I'm expecting a baby this summer, so it may not be very easy to care for the baby and at the same time provide for my daughter's social and intellectual needs, but I feel that if she's not at school, I'll also get to earn a lot instead of just living a "bodily" life of a baby's mother.)
4. (a somewhat minor reason): We speak Russian at home, and keeping her home for one more year maybe will strengthen her Russian even further, as we're hoping she'll grow up truly bilingual--something that often doesn't work out once kids start going to school.
5. (another minor reason): Her going to Kindergarten would mean that we'd have to move from our current neighborhood. We're not against moving, but it would mean much higher rent and other living expenses for us.
Now, I have a few reasons that make me doubt whether unschooling would be the right move. Here they are:
1. My daughter is in preschool right now (a play-based one, a couple of hours 4 times a week) and she wants to go to the "big school" in the fall because she know everybody is going. I don't want her to feel like I'm forcing her to stay home. I think that's my biggest worry about keeping her home. She may feel left out.
2. She's a Russian speaker, and her English, although very functional, is quite broken. My husband thinks that by keeping her home an extra year we may harm her because she'd be so much behind when and if she goes to 1 st grade after skipping Kindergarten. I am planning to hire a nanny whose primary role would be being an English speaking friend to my daughter, but this may still not bring her to the level she would probably be after going to school for a year. I am not at all worried about her English--there's no way she won't be able to speak it growing up. I am however worried about her school testing her and tracking her and making the whole thing stressful to all of us.
So, while I'm trying to make a decision, we're also looking at places to move to (the nearest suburb), and so far we've found nothing that would work for us. We could of course just stay where we're at and take her to a neighborhood school here, but city schools I think are even tougher on the kids--no real recess, almost no PE classes, longer school days... I don't want her to go away for a whole day and come back exhausted... Maybe she'll be fine and I just need to give it a try? And just keep the possibility to not go to school always open for her?
I'm new to this list, but I've already learned quite a few things from it. As I'm sorting this out for myself, II would greatly appreciate your thoughts and suggestions.
Thanks,
Yulia
my daughter is supposed to start Kindergarten this fall. The closer we get there, the more attracted I become to the idea of unschooling her, at least for the kindergarten year. here are a few reasons why I'd like unschooling:
1. I think a 5-year-old needs to be out playing as much as possible. I don't think it's very healthy for a 5-year-old to be stuck inside most of the day every day within a structured environment. I want her to be free a bit longer.
2. I was not unschooled, but the most meaningful things I learned were outside of school and in a way in spite of school. I did go to a pretty crappy school, though.
3. I want to be able to hang out with my daughter, do interesting things with her. I'm afraid that if she starts school, she'd be so exhausted that I would just want to let her rest for the rest of the day. Besides, there'll be just too little time to go places and do things. (I'm expecting a baby this summer, so it may not be very easy to care for the baby and at the same time provide for my daughter's social and intellectual needs, but I feel that if she's not at school, I'll also get to earn a lot instead of just living a "bodily" life of a baby's mother.)
4. (a somewhat minor reason): We speak Russian at home, and keeping her home for one more year maybe will strengthen her Russian even further, as we're hoping she'll grow up truly bilingual--something that often doesn't work out once kids start going to school.
5. (another minor reason): Her going to Kindergarten would mean that we'd have to move from our current neighborhood. We're not against moving, but it would mean much higher rent and other living expenses for us.
Now, I have a few reasons that make me doubt whether unschooling would be the right move. Here they are:
1. My daughter is in preschool right now (a play-based one, a couple of hours 4 times a week) and she wants to go to the "big school" in the fall because she know everybody is going. I don't want her to feel like I'm forcing her to stay home. I think that's my biggest worry about keeping her home. She may feel left out.
2. She's a Russian speaker, and her English, although very functional, is quite broken. My husband thinks that by keeping her home an extra year we may harm her because she'd be so much behind when and if she goes to 1 st grade after skipping Kindergarten. I am planning to hire a nanny whose primary role would be being an English speaking friend to my daughter, but this may still not bring her to the level she would probably be after going to school for a year. I am not at all worried about her English--there's no way she won't be able to speak it growing up. I am however worried about her school testing her and tracking her and making the whole thing stressful to all of us.
So, while I'm trying to make a decision, we're also looking at places to move to (the nearest suburb), and so far we've found nothing that would work for us. We could of course just stay where we're at and take her to a neighborhood school here, but city schools I think are even tougher on the kids--no real recess, almost no PE classes, longer school days... I don't want her to go away for a whole day and come back exhausted... Maybe she'll be fine and I just need to give it a try? And just keep the possibility to not go to school always open for her?
I'm new to this list, but I've already learned quite a few things from it. As I'm sorting this out for myself, II would greatly appreciate your thoughts and suggestions.
Thanks,
Yulia
Joyce Fetteroll
On Mar 14, 2012, at 11:31 PM, yule189 wrote:
Do you get out so she can be with other kids? Playground? Indoor playspace? Perhaps joining a local homeschooling group for activities? (You can be honest and say you're exploring the idea of homeschooling.)
But she needs good choices in order to choose home. If school is full of fun things and home is less fun, obviously she'll choose school. What are her favorite things at school that you can bring home? WIth her guidance, get some of those. What kinds of things can you do that she can't do in school? Do those.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 1. My daughter is in preschool right now (a play-based one,Home should be at least as much fun as school. What are you doing together when she's home on the other 3 days?
> a couple of hours 4 times a week) and she wants to go to the
> "big school" in the fall because she know everybody is going.
Do you get out so she can be with other kids? Playground? Indoor playspace? Perhaps joining a local homeschooling group for activities? (You can be honest and say you're exploring the idea of homeschooling.)
> I don't want her to feel like I'm forcing her to stay home.Forced homeschooling can be worse than forced schooling. At least with school kids get to escape at the end of the day.
> I think that's my biggest worry about keeping her home. She may feel left out.
But she needs good choices in order to choose home. If school is full of fun things and home is less fun, obviously she'll choose school. What are her favorite things at school that you can bring home? WIth her guidance, get some of those. What kinds of things can you do that she can't do in school? Do those.
> 2. She's a Russian speaker, and her English, although very functional, is quite broken.If she plays with English speaking children regularly she'll be picking up English naturally in the same way she picked up Russian.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
yule189
Thanks so much for the reply. We do do fun things when she's not at school--library, museums, Botanical garden, zoo, fun classes, playground, or we play/read at home... I understand that she has to have a choice, but she hasn't been to school yet, so I guess she thinks that school is going to be like her preschool now--play, crafts, running around on the playground. I guess my big question is whether I have the right to decide to unschool her before she even gets to experience school.
--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Mar 14, 2012, at 11:31 PM, yule189 wrote:
>
> > 1. My daughter is in preschool right now (a play-based one,
> > a couple of hours 4 times a week) and she wants to go to the
> > "big school" in the fall because she know everybody is going.
>
> Home should be at least as much fun as school. What are you doing together when she's home on the other 3 days?
>
> Do you get out so she can be with other kids? Playground? Indoor playspace? Perhaps joining a local homeschooling group for activities? (You can be honest and say you're exploring the idea of homeschooling.)
>
> > I don't want her to feel like I'm forcing her to stay home.
> > I think that's my biggest worry about keeping her home. She may feel left out.
>
> Forced homeschooling can be worse than forced schooling. At least with school kids get to escape at the end of the day.
>
> But she needs good choices in order to choose home. If school is full of fun things and home is less fun, obviously she'll choose school. What are her favorite things at school that you can bring home? WIth her guidance, get some of those. What kinds of things can you do that she can't do in school? Do those.
>
> > 2. She's a Russian speaker, and her English, although very functional, is quite broken.
>
> If she plays with English speaking children regularly she'll be picking up English naturally in the same way she picked up Russian.
>
> Joyce
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Joyce Fetteroll
On Mar 15, 2012, at 10:12 AM, yule189 wrote:
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I guess my big question is whether I have the right to decide toHow about taking her to visit the kindergarten? My daughter wanted to go to kindergarten thinking it would be bigger better preschool with Big Wheels to ride. I let her know there were no Big Wheels and she decided she didn't want to go. ;-)
> unschool her before she even gets to experience school.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Joyce did you take her for visit at Kindergarten?
Just last night Gigi told me she wants to go to school for one day to check it out how it is.
She said she is curious and wanted to see it.
Alex Polikowsky
________________________________
From: Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] trying to make a decision about unschooling
Just last night Gigi told me she wants to go to school for one day to check it out how it is.
She said she is curious and wanted to see it.
Alex Polikowsky
________________________________
From: Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] trying to make a decision about unschooling
On Mar 15, 2012, at 10:12 AM, yule189 wrote:
> I guess my big question is whether I have the right to decide to
> unschool her before she even gets to experience school.
How about taking her to visit the kindergarten? My daughter wanted to go to kindergarten thinking it would be bigger better preschool with Big Wheels to ride. I let her know there were no Big Wheels and she decided she didn't want to go. ;-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Mar 15, 2012, at 10:44 AM, BRIAN POLIKOWSKY wrote:
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Joyce did you take her for visit at Kindergarten?No, she never asked. The Big Wheels where pretty much it for school for her. She enjoyed staying home.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
yule189
How do we visit the kindergarten? I could take her for a school tour, but I don't think this would give her an idea of how it would really be. Otherwise, I don't think we can just come in and stay for a day or something like that. I could of course take her to school whenever it starts this coming fall and let her know she doesn't have to stay there. Is that what you meant by a visit to the kindergarten?
Thanks!
Thanks!
--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Mar 15, 2012, at 10:12 AM, yule189 wrote:
>
> > I guess my big question is whether I have the right to decide to
> > unschool her before she even gets to experience school.
>
> How about taking her to visit the kindergarten? My daughter wanted to go to kindergarten thinking it would be bigger better preschool with Big Wheels to ride. I let her know there were no Big Wheels and she decided she didn't want to go. ;-)
>
> Joyce
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Joyce Fetteroll
On Mar 15, 2012, at 12:02 PM, yule189 wrote:
It will depend on the school but the schools want kids to be comfortable and are usually willing to accommodate. If you visit, make sure it isn't on a day something special is happening! ;-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Otherwise, I don't think we can just come in and stay for a day or something like that.You can ask :-)
It will depend on the school but the schools want kids to be comfortable and are usually willing to accommodate. If you visit, make sure it isn't on a day something special is happening! ;-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Alex Polikowsy
Gigi says she does not want to go to school everyday it she is curious and wants to see how it is.
I am not afraid of her wanting to stay there.
But she clearly told she is curious and wanted to see how it is.
Sent from my iPhone
I am not afraid of her wanting to stay there.
But she clearly told she is curious and wanted to see how it is.
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 15, 2012, at 10:12 AM, Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>
> On Mar 15, 2012, at 10:44 AM, BRIAN POLIKOWSKY wrote:
>
> > Joyce did you take her for visit at Kindergarten?
>
> No, she never asked. The Big Wheels where pretty much it for school for her. She enjoyed staying home.
>
> Joyce
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
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Alex Polikowsy
There are many schools that will let a homeschool kid come for a day
Sent from my iPhone
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 15, 2012, at 11:02 AM, "yule189" <yborisova@...> wrote:
> How do we visit the kindergarten? I could take her for a school tour, but I don't think this would give her an idea of how it would really be. Otherwise, I don't think we can just come in and stay for a day or something like that. I could of course take her to school whenever it starts this coming fall and let her know she doesn't have to stay there. Is that what you meant by a visit to the kindergarten?
> Thanks!
>
> --- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Mar 15, 2012, at 10:12 AM, yule189 wrote:
> >
> > > I guess my big question is whether I have the right to decide to
> > > unschool her before she even gets to experience school.
> >
> > How about taking her to visit the kindergarten? My daughter wanted to go to kindergarten thinking it would be bigger better preschool with Big Wheels to ride. I let her know there were no Big Wheels and she decided she didn't want to go. ;-)
> >
> > Joyce
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
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Amy at Six Flower Mom
I have not really been keeping up with this thread BUT when I read your note I thought I would like to add my two cents!
I think homeshool/unschooling children is a tough decision ... when my oldest was born I taught at a preschool and although we had always said that we would homeschool ... some how she was enrolled in school and off she went. Life was crazy and the next thing I knew my 2nd daughter was in school ... half way through my 2nd daughters first grade I came to my senses and realized we had a different plan. Having said all that I am glad that they had the experience of going to school but part of me wishes I had not sent them at all ... there are still things that we have to unlearn from that time.
Check your state laws ... where we are from children can start Kindergarten as late as 6 years old. So maybe you could wait another year without making this decision OR some states Kindergarten is not required, again you could wait another year and see where it takes you.
I think that your reasons for homeschooling are very valid and even though you say it is minor, being bilingual is a HUGE gift to anyone. And I think that is a valid reason to homeschool.
I now have 6 children and have been homeschooling for over 10 years ... my younger children have never been to school and yes there are times when they wonder what it is like and have friends who talk about it but with a little time they realize that we do so many great things that they would never have the time to do if they were in school all day.
This is just my opinion but public school is not a right of passage or something that children have to do ... you as a parent have the right to make choices that you feel are best for your child ... what doctors they see, etc... education is just as important in my opinion and yes you have the right to make this decision for your child.
Wishing you much luck ... parenting can be hard but it sounds like you have some great thoughts going on and I hope it all works well for you!
Peace, love and kindness, Amy
--
I think homeshool/unschooling children is a tough decision ... when my oldest was born I taught at a preschool and although we had always said that we would homeschool ... some how she was enrolled in school and off she went. Life was crazy and the next thing I knew my 2nd daughter was in school ... half way through my 2nd daughters first grade I came to my senses and realized we had a different plan. Having said all that I am glad that they had the experience of going to school but part of me wishes I had not sent them at all ... there are still things that we have to unlearn from that time.
Check your state laws ... where we are from children can start Kindergarten as late as 6 years old. So maybe you could wait another year without making this decision OR some states Kindergarten is not required, again you could wait another year and see where it takes you.
I think that your reasons for homeschooling are very valid and even though you say it is minor, being bilingual is a HUGE gift to anyone. And I think that is a valid reason to homeschool.
I now have 6 children and have been homeschooling for over 10 years ... my younger children have never been to school and yes there are times when they wonder what it is like and have friends who talk about it but with a little time they realize that we do so many great things that they would never have the time to do if they were in school all day.
This is just my opinion but public school is not a right of passage or something that children have to do ... you as a parent have the right to make choices that you feel are best for your child ... what doctors they see, etc... education is just as important in my opinion and yes you have the right to make this decision for your child.
Wishing you much luck ... parenting can be hard but it sounds like you have some great thoughts going on and I hope it all works well for you!
Peace, love and kindness, Amy
--
Meredith
"yule189" <yborisova@...> wrote:
Rather than thinking in terms of great big decisions and "rights" - which can lead on on a wild theoretical tangent, look at what your daughter needs and desires. What does she like about preschool and imagine she'll like about school? Look for ways to give her more of those things. If her big interest is friends, be sure to find lots of ways for her to meet and hang out with other kids - play dates and outings where she can meet people of all ages. Some kids Do like the concentrated press of people school provides! But going to school for social reasons isn't quite the same as going because it's what everyone just... does.
It may be that she'll enjoy preschool and kindergarten but then be appalled at first grade - and in that case, you and she both have an advantage in that you've already considered home as an option. School isn't a "once and for all" decision!
And whether or not she goes to school you can work to make choices more thoughtfully, to be a kinder, softer, more creative parent who works with her child rather than against her. You don't have to make any decision about unschooling per se to do that.
---Meredith
>>I guess my big question is whether I have the right to decide to unschool her before she even gets to experience school.****************
Rather than thinking in terms of great big decisions and "rights" - which can lead on on a wild theoretical tangent, look at what your daughter needs and desires. What does she like about preschool and imagine she'll like about school? Look for ways to give her more of those things. If her big interest is friends, be sure to find lots of ways for her to meet and hang out with other kids - play dates and outings where she can meet people of all ages. Some kids Do like the concentrated press of people school provides! But going to school for social reasons isn't quite the same as going because it's what everyone just... does.
It may be that she'll enjoy preschool and kindergarten but then be appalled at first grade - and in that case, you and she both have an advantage in that you've already considered home as an option. School isn't a "once and for all" decision!
And whether or not she goes to school you can work to make choices more thoughtfully, to be a kinder, softer, more creative parent who works with her child rather than against her. You don't have to make any decision about unschooling per se to do that.
---Meredith
Meredith
Alex Polikowsy <polykowholsteins@...> wrote:
Alex, call a local school and ask if you can get a tour sometime during the day. It doesn't have to be the grade Gigi would be in, necessarily - she could see what school is like in general, look into classrooms filled with kids, get to look at some of the books and desks, maybe, while you make wish-lists of anything she thinks looks fun. If the local elementary school won't give a tour, call the middle and high schools, too. My family moved several times and I remember countless school tours - they Do give tours, if they think you're interested in the school, so you might want to gently lead them to think so, without actually saying it. After all, you Are homeschoolers, and your daughter Is interested in seeing what goes on in school - you don't have to mention it's something like a field trip.
---Meredith
>*************
> Gigi says she does not want to go to school everyday it she is curious and wants to see how it is.
Alex, call a local school and ask if you can get a tour sometime during the day. It doesn't have to be the grade Gigi would be in, necessarily - she could see what school is like in general, look into classrooms filled with kids, get to look at some of the books and desks, maybe, while you make wish-lists of anything she thinks looks fun. If the local elementary school won't give a tour, call the middle and high schools, too. My family moved several times and I remember countless school tours - they Do give tours, if they think you're interested in the school, so you might want to gently lead them to think so, without actually saying it. After all, you Are homeschoolers, and your daughter Is interested in seeing what goes on in school - you don't have to mention it's something like a field trip.
---Meredith
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
that is a great idea Meredith. I will do that. I guess she really does not know how it looks like inside and is curious!
Alex Polikowsky
________________________________
From: Meredith <plaidpanties666@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 5:43 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: trying to make a decision about unschooling
Alex Polikowsy <polykowholsteins@...> wrote:
Alex, call a local school and ask if you can get a tour sometime during the day. It doesn't have to be the grade Gigi would be in, necessarily - she could see what school is like in general, look into classrooms filled with kids, get to look at some of the books and desks, maybe, while you make wish-lists of anything she thinks looks fun. If the local elementary school won't give a tour, call the middle and high schools, too. My family moved several times and I remember countless school tours - they Do give tours, if they think you're interested in the school, so you might want to gently lead them to think so, without actually saying it. After all, you Are homeschoolers, and your daughter Is interested in seeing what goes on in school - you don't have to mention it's something like a field trip.
---Meredith
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Alex Polikowsky
________________________________
From: Meredith <plaidpanties666@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 5:43 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: trying to make a decision about unschooling
Alex Polikowsy <polykowholsteins@...> wrote:
>*************
> Gigi says she does not want to go to school everyday it she is curious and wants to see how it is.
Alex, call a local school and ask if you can get a tour sometime during the day. It doesn't have to be the grade Gigi would be in, necessarily - she could see what school is like in general, look into classrooms filled with kids, get to look at some of the books and desks, maybe, while you make wish-lists of anything she thinks looks fun. If the local elementary school won't give a tour, call the middle and high schools, too. My family moved several times and I remember countless school tours - they Do give tours, if they think you're interested in the school, so you might want to gently lead them to think so, without actually saying it. After all, you Are homeschoolers, and your daughter Is interested in seeing what goes on in school - you don't have to mention it's something like a field trip.
---Meredith
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
If the plan is to send her to school starting with 1st grade, I think the kindest thing would be to send her starting with K.
Just because unschooling is a good thing for many families doesn't mean it is the best answer for all families.
It sounds to me like you will have your hands full with the new baby and the new house. There is no point adding additional stress to everyone's life by showing up at school for 1st grade and asking for all sorts of scrutiny about language skills and everything else.
Nance
Just because unschooling is a good thing for many families doesn't mean it is the best answer for all families.
It sounds to me like you will have your hands full with the new baby and the new house. There is no point adding additional stress to everyone's life by showing up at school for 1st grade and asking for all sorts of scrutiny about language skills and everything else.
Nance
--- In [email protected], "yule189" <yborisova@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> my daughter is supposed to start Kindergarten this fall. The closer we get there, the more attracted I become to the idea of unschooling her, at least for the kindergarten year. here are a few reasons why I'd like unschooling:
[email protected]
Another thought -- if your daughter goes to school, you can still keep unschooling ideas in mind. Continue to be kind and generous with your time, listen to her, respect her needs -- if she's tired, let her rest, don't expect her to play with you the way she does now, and approach school with a positive attitude, help her to have a fun time with it.
Nance
Nance
--- In [email protected], "marbleface@..." <marbleface@...> wrote:
>
> If the plan is to send her to school starting with 1st grade, I think the kindest thing would be to send her starting with K.
>
> Just because unschooling is a good thing for many families doesn't mean it is the best answer for all families.
>
> It sounds to me like you will have your hands full with the new baby and the new house. There is no point adding additional stress to everyone's life by showing up at school for 1st grade and asking for all sorts of scrutiny about language skills and everything else.
>
> Nance
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "yule189" <yborisova@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> > my daughter is supposed to start Kindergarten this fall. The closer we get there, the more attracted I become to the idea of unschooling her, at least for the kindergarten year. here are a few reasons why I'd like unschooling:
>
Catherine Goudouchaouri
Sorry, just jumping in about the language.
We are a french family living in England, and really my boys picked up
english very quickly by playing with other children.
Your daughter doesn't "need" to go to school or have a nanny in order to
learn english, playing with other kids will do the job, in a much nicer
way as well !
If you are not isolated and see other kids regularly (playing groups,
social gatherings, inviting friends over...), she will learn much faster
and with less pain than in school, in my opinion !
Cath
We are a french family living in England, and really my boys picked up
english very quickly by playing with other children.
Your daughter doesn't "need" to go to school or have a nanny in order to
learn english, playing with other kids will do the job, in a much nicer
way as well !
If you are not isolated and see other kids regularly (playing groups,
social gatherings, inviting friends over...), she will learn much faster
and with less pain than in school, in my opinion !
Cath
Meredith
"marbleface@..." <marbleface@...> wrote:
For a contrary view, you might want to read Better Late than Early about the benefits of delaying education.
---Meredith
>*************
> If the plan is to send her to school starting with 1st grade, I think the kindest thing would be to send her starting with K.
For a contrary view, you might want to read Better Late than Early about the benefits of delaying education.
---Meredith
yule189
Thank you all so much for commenting! It really helps me work through my thoughts. This post is going to be long and rambling, but if some of you have patience to go through it and comment, I'd be very grateful.
Yes, I do feel that 5 years old is too early for structured learning. It's almost painful for me to accept that she'll be tested in her kindergarten year. Admittedly, she may not find it painful at all.
When I ask her why she wants to go to school, she says because she wants to learn what the teachers will teach her. I wouldn't say she enjoys structured "lessons" at home. She has little patience with it and tries to take over. For example, she sometimes prefers to read words her own way, or when she writes something (when SHE wants to write something, without me suggesting it to her), she may ask for my help but for very limited help--she doesn't want me to spell out the whole word for her, just one small part of the word. I usually don't interfere with her writing because most of the time she doesn't like it. She just recently took a liking for playing "school" with me, but she prefers to set the terms for the game even when she tells me I'll be the teacher. So, I guess she like the idea of school, but she doesn't enjoy becoming a "receptacle" for at least my teaching. I do admit though that if she likes her teacher she may enjoy learning from him or her.
As for her language, it's an interesting issue. She's a very sociable and articulate child, and when she started preschool last year we thought she'd pick up English very fast--we were just hoping she wouldn't want to switch to it too soon. It didn't happen the way we expected. On the one hand, she picked up enough English to communicate with the kids and the teachers, and she seems to be very confident about talking to people in English. However, I would say that her English is weaker than we thought it would be after almost 2 years of preschool. For a while her interest in English was markedly limited--for example, she wouldn't have us read English books to her. It has recently started changing: once in a while she would even start speaking English to us at home. Her pattern of acquiring English is quite different from that of a Korean boy in her preschool class. He speaks English as a native speaker, and I was very surprised to find out that he was born in Korea and has been living in the US for 2,5 years at most. He speaks Korean at home and is also very much attached to his grandma who lives in Korea and talks to him on Skype every day. I'm not saying that he's more talented in languages than my daughter, but it's really amazing how different kids are. My daughter's Russian has been very rich and really wonderful for a while by now, and maybe it's because she has felt so at home speaking it that she has stuck to it so persistently for so long. In other words, she's very verbal and maybe because she has known Russian so much better than English, it offers much more room for her verbal imagination? All of this doesn't at all make me think she's going to have problems with English. I think her English is going to be just as great at her Russian, and I don't understand why they have ESL classes for kindergartners. That's another thing that seems to be quite wrong in our public schools. I think her Russian knowledge is actually going to enrich her English, especially if she's not pushed in her English acquisition. So, when it comes to going to school this year, I'm not worried about her English, but I am a bit worried about her giving up on her Russian. I thought one more year at home would give us more chances to strengthen her Russian. Do you think I'm preparing her for a rough entry when I bring her to 1st grade?
I am of course planning to find socializing opportunities for her in case she stays home. It's true, I will have my hands full with the baby, but the "new house" is very likely to be simply a 2-bedroom apartment, so that shouldn't be a big deal especially if I take it slowly.
In any case, I guess, what I'm going to do is take her to school when it starts and let her know that she can stay home if she wants to. I would love to leave her home, but I can't think of a smart way to do it without her feeling I'm leaving her behind other kids her age. We'll see how it works out.
Yes, I do feel that 5 years old is too early for structured learning. It's almost painful for me to accept that she'll be tested in her kindergarten year. Admittedly, she may not find it painful at all.
When I ask her why she wants to go to school, she says because she wants to learn what the teachers will teach her. I wouldn't say she enjoys structured "lessons" at home. She has little patience with it and tries to take over. For example, she sometimes prefers to read words her own way, or when she writes something (when SHE wants to write something, without me suggesting it to her), she may ask for my help but for very limited help--she doesn't want me to spell out the whole word for her, just one small part of the word. I usually don't interfere with her writing because most of the time she doesn't like it. She just recently took a liking for playing "school" with me, but she prefers to set the terms for the game even when she tells me I'll be the teacher. So, I guess she like the idea of school, but she doesn't enjoy becoming a "receptacle" for at least my teaching. I do admit though that if she likes her teacher she may enjoy learning from him or her.
As for her language, it's an interesting issue. She's a very sociable and articulate child, and when she started preschool last year we thought she'd pick up English very fast--we were just hoping she wouldn't want to switch to it too soon. It didn't happen the way we expected. On the one hand, she picked up enough English to communicate with the kids and the teachers, and she seems to be very confident about talking to people in English. However, I would say that her English is weaker than we thought it would be after almost 2 years of preschool. For a while her interest in English was markedly limited--for example, she wouldn't have us read English books to her. It has recently started changing: once in a while she would even start speaking English to us at home. Her pattern of acquiring English is quite different from that of a Korean boy in her preschool class. He speaks English as a native speaker, and I was very surprised to find out that he was born in Korea and has been living in the US for 2,5 years at most. He speaks Korean at home and is also very much attached to his grandma who lives in Korea and talks to him on Skype every day. I'm not saying that he's more talented in languages than my daughter, but it's really amazing how different kids are. My daughter's Russian has been very rich and really wonderful for a while by now, and maybe it's because she has felt so at home speaking it that she has stuck to it so persistently for so long. In other words, she's very verbal and maybe because she has known Russian so much better than English, it offers much more room for her verbal imagination? All of this doesn't at all make me think she's going to have problems with English. I think her English is going to be just as great at her Russian, and I don't understand why they have ESL classes for kindergartners. That's another thing that seems to be quite wrong in our public schools. I think her Russian knowledge is actually going to enrich her English, especially if she's not pushed in her English acquisition. So, when it comes to going to school this year, I'm not worried about her English, but I am a bit worried about her giving up on her Russian. I thought one more year at home would give us more chances to strengthen her Russian. Do you think I'm preparing her for a rough entry when I bring her to 1st grade?
I am of course planning to find socializing opportunities for her in case she stays home. It's true, I will have my hands full with the baby, but the "new house" is very likely to be simply a 2-bedroom apartment, so that shouldn't be a big deal especially if I take it slowly.
In any case, I guess, what I'm going to do is take her to school when it starts and let her know that she can stay home if she wants to. I would love to leave her home, but I can't think of a smart way to do it without her feeling I'm leaving her behind other kids her age. We'll see how it works out.
--- In [email protected], "Meredith" <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
>
> "marbleface@" <marbleface@> wrote:
> >
> > If the plan is to send her to school starting with 1st grade, I think the kindest thing would be to send her starting with K.
> *************
>
> For a contrary view, you might want to read Better Late than Early about the benefits of delaying education.
>
> ---Meredith
>
lalow
My oldest son kind of liked the idea of going to kindergarden. My other kids expressed no real interest because we knew more people tnat didnt go to school and their brother had not. He just thought thats what everyone did so he should too. I got him involved in some homeschool groups so he could meet kids that stayed home. We went to the school and looked around, talked about what interested him. It boiled down to a desire to eat in a cefeteria and ride a bus... Both easily accomidated. He is 10 now... Has no interest in being in school all day.
[email protected]
"Do you think I'm preparing her for a rough entry when I bring her to 1st grade?"
I think, if you are planning to put her in school starting with 1st grade, there doesn't sound like there is any reason to hold her out for K and she will be out of step with the other kids if you do.
I think school can be a good experience and there is no reason to create problems to start with. This could be a time where you and your daughter get all excited about K and get ready for it and have a positive experience.
If your daughter does not enjoy K and you decide to homeschool for the long run, that's a different story completely. I would try to make it a good thing now, though, making home as fun as it always is and being enthusiastic about school. She's 5 and she's interested in school -- support her.
Nance
I think, if you are planning to put her in school starting with 1st grade, there doesn't sound like there is any reason to hold her out for K and she will be out of step with the other kids if you do.
I think school can be a good experience and there is no reason to create problems to start with. This could be a time where you and your daughter get all excited about K and get ready for it and have a positive experience.
If your daughter does not enjoy K and you decide to homeschool for the long run, that's a different story completely. I would try to make it a good thing now, though, making home as fun as it always is and being enthusiastic about school. She's 5 and she's interested in school -- support her.
Nance
--- In [email protected], "yule189" <yborisova@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you all so much for commenting! It really helps me work through my thoughts. This post is going to be long and rambling, but if some of you have patience to go through it and comment, I'd be very grateful.
>
> Yes, I do feel that 5 years old is too early for structured learning. It's almost painful for me to accept that she'll be tested in her kindergarten year. Admittedly, she may not find it painful at all.
>
> When I ask her why she wants to go to school, she says because she wants to learn what the teachers will teach her. I wouldn't say she enjoys structured "lessons" at home. She has little patience with it and tries to take over. For example, she sometimes prefers to read words her own way, or when she writes something (when SHE wants to write something, without me suggesting it to her), she may ask for my help but for very limited help--she doesn't want me to spell out the whole word for her, just one small part of the word. I usually don't interfere with her writing because most of the time she doesn't like it. She just recently took a liking for playing "school" with me, but she prefers to set the terms for the game even when she tells me I'll be the teacher. So, I guess she like the idea of school, but she doesn't enjoy becoming a "receptacle" for at least my teaching. I do admit though that if she likes her teacher she may enjoy learning from him or her.
>
> As for her language, it's an interesting issue. She's a very sociable and articulate child, and when she started preschool last year we thought she'd pick up English very fast--we were just hoping she wouldn't want to switch to it too soon. It didn't happen the way we expected. On the one hand, she picked up enough English to communicate with the kids and the teachers, and she seems to be very confident about talking to people in English. However, I would say that her English is weaker than we thought it would be after almost 2 years of preschool. For a while her interest in English was markedly limited--for example, she wouldn't have us read English books to her. It has recently started changing: once in a while she would even start speaking English to us at home. Her pattern of acquiring English is quite different from that of a Korean boy in her preschool class. He speaks English as a native speaker, and I was very surprised to find out that he was born in Korea and has been living in the US for 2,5 years at most. He speaks Korean at home and is also very much attached to his grandma who lives in Korea and talks to him on Skype every day. I'm not saying that he's more talented in languages than my daughter, but it's really amazing how different kids are. My daughter's Russian has been very rich and really wonderful for a while by now, and maybe it's because she has felt so at home speaking it that she has stuck to it so persistently for so long. In other words, she's very verbal and maybe because she has known Russian so much better than English, it offers much more room for her verbal imagination? All of this doesn't at all make me think she's going to have problems with English. I think her English is going to be just as great at her Russian, and I don't understand why they have ESL classes for kindergartners. That's another thing that seems to be quite wrong in our public schools. I think her Russian knowledge is actually going to enrich her English, especially if she's not pushed in her English acquisition. So, when it comes to going to school this year, I'm not worried about her English, but I am a bit worried about her giving up on her Russian. I thought one more year at home would give us more chances to strengthen her Russian. Do you think I'm preparing her for a rough entry when I bring her to 1st grade?
>
> I am of course planning to find socializing opportunities for her in case she stays home. It's true, I will have my hands full with the baby, but the "new house" is very likely to be simply a 2-bedroom apartment, so that shouldn't be a big deal especially if I take it slowly.
>
> In any case, I guess, what I'm going to do is take her to school when it starts and let her know that she can stay home if she wants to. I would love to leave her home, but I can't think of a smart way to do it without her feeling I'm leaving her behind other kids her age. We'll see how it works out.
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "Meredith" <plaidpanties666@> wrote:
> >
> > "marbleface@" <marbleface@> wrote:
> > >
> > > If the plan is to send her to school starting with 1st grade, I think the kindest thing would be to send her starting with K.
> > *************
> >
> > For a contrary view, you might want to read Better Late than Early about the benefits of delaying education.
> >
> > ---Meredith
> >
>
yule189
Nance,
thanks for your thoughts--you are really making good points and helping me examine the issue from different perspectives. However, I do feel there are reasons to hold her for K, the most important one being that she'll be more mature in a year. I do agree that school can be a good experience but I don't think that waiting a year necessarily means creating problems. Some problems can be seen as positive challenges. We are immigrants and we have lots of immigrant friends. Based on our experience, I would say that getting adjusted to a new situation can be hard but it can also be enriching. Besides, I think with our support it could be a challenge that would involve learning and maturing for our daughter. I remember reading a fascinating article by a New York Times correspondent in Moscow, who brought his three school-age children from the US to Moscow, and they ended up attending a Russian school for 4 years. They all went through hard times (the kindergartner actually had it the easiest), but in the end the experience they had was invaluable. We're of course not in the same situation, but it's really going to be a lot easier for our daughter than for those American kids in Moscowshe has been around English speaking people since she was born.
I also think that skipping K for the sake of strengthening her Russian language skills is not a silly whim. Most immigrant children, with the exclusion perhaps of those who speak Spanish, lose their family language very quickly after they start schoolwe've definitely seen it among Russian families. I believe that being bilingual is a huge advantage. Besides, I'd make sure she spends time with English speaking kids if she decides to stay home. Linguistic and cultural isolation is definitely not my plan for her.
But yes, you are right that I should support her interests and her decision. If she decides to go to school, that's what she'll do.
Thanks again for the thoughtful feedback!
yulia
thanks for your thoughts--you are really making good points and helping me examine the issue from different perspectives. However, I do feel there are reasons to hold her for K, the most important one being that she'll be more mature in a year. I do agree that school can be a good experience but I don't think that waiting a year necessarily means creating problems. Some problems can be seen as positive challenges. We are immigrants and we have lots of immigrant friends. Based on our experience, I would say that getting adjusted to a new situation can be hard but it can also be enriching. Besides, I think with our support it could be a challenge that would involve learning and maturing for our daughter. I remember reading a fascinating article by a New York Times correspondent in Moscow, who brought his three school-age children from the US to Moscow, and they ended up attending a Russian school for 4 years. They all went through hard times (the kindergartner actually had it the easiest), but in the end the experience they had was invaluable. We're of course not in the same situation, but it's really going to be a lot easier for our daughter than for those American kids in Moscowshe has been around English speaking people since she was born.
I also think that skipping K for the sake of strengthening her Russian language skills is not a silly whim. Most immigrant children, with the exclusion perhaps of those who speak Spanish, lose their family language very quickly after they start schoolwe've definitely seen it among Russian families. I believe that being bilingual is a huge advantage. Besides, I'd make sure she spends time with English speaking kids if she decides to stay home. Linguistic and cultural isolation is definitely not my plan for her.
But yes, you are right that I should support her interests and her decision. If she decides to go to school, that's what she'll do.
Thanks again for the thoughtful feedback!
yulia
--- In [email protected], "marbleface@..." <marbleface@...> wrote:
>
>
> "Do you think I'm preparing her for a rough entry when I bring her to 1st grade?"
>
> I think, if you are planning to put her in school starting with 1st grade, there doesn't sound like there is any reason to hold her out for K and she will be out of step with the other kids if you do.
>
> I think school can be a good experience and there is no reason to create problems to start with. This could be a time where you and your daughter get all excited about K and get ready for it and have a positive experience.
>
> If your daughter does not enjoy K and you decide to homeschool for the long run, that's a different story completely. I would try to make it a good thing now, though, making home as fun as it always is and being enthusiastic about school. She's 5 and she's interested in school -- support her.
>
> Nance
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "yule189" <yborisova@> wrote:
> >
> > Thank you all so much for commenting! It really helps me work through my thoughts. This post is going to be long and rambling, but if some of you have patience to go through it and comment, I'd be very grateful.
> >
> > Yes, I do feel that 5 years old is too early for structured learning. It's almost painful for me to accept that she'll be tested in her kindergarten year. Admittedly, she may not find it painful at all.
> >
> > When I ask her why she wants to go to school, she says because she wants to learn what the teachers will teach her. I wouldn't say she enjoys structured "lessons" at home. She has little patience with it and tries to take over. For example, she sometimes prefers to read words her own way, or when she writes something (when SHE wants to write something, without me suggesting it to her), she may ask for my help but for very limited help--she doesn't want me to spell out the whole word for her, just one small part of the word. I usually don't interfere with her writing because most of the time she doesn't like it. She just recently took a liking for playing "school" with me, but she prefers to set the terms for the game even when she tells me I'll be the teacher. So, I guess she like the idea of school, but she doesn't enjoy becoming a "receptacle" for at least my teaching. I do admit though that if she likes her teacher she may enjoy learning from him or her.
> >
> > As for her language, it's an interesting issue. She's a very sociable and articulate child, and when she started preschool last year we thought she'd pick up English very fast--we were just hoping she wouldn't want to switch to it too soon. It didn't happen the way we expected. On the one hand, she picked up enough English to communicate with the kids and the teachers, and she seems to be very confident about talking to people in English. However, I would say that her English is weaker than we thought it would be after almost 2 years of preschool. For a while her interest in English was markedly limited--for example, she wouldn't have us read English books to her. It has recently started changing: once in a while she would even start speaking English to us at home. Her pattern of acquiring English is quite different from that of a Korean boy in her preschool class. He speaks English as a native speaker, and I was very surprised to find out that he was born in Korea and has been living in the US for 2,5 years at most. He speaks Korean at home and is also very much attached to his grandma who lives in Korea and talks to him on Skype every day. I'm not saying that he's more talented in languages than my daughter, but it's really amazing how different kids are. My daughter's Russian has been very rich and really wonderful for a while by now, and maybe it's because she has felt so at home speaking it that she has stuck to it so persistently for so long. In other words, she's very verbal and maybe because she has known Russian so much better than English, it offers much more room for her verbal imagination? All of this doesn't at all make me think she's going to have problems with English. I think her English is going to be just as great at her Russian, and I don't understand why they have ESL classes for kindergartners. That's another thing that seems to be quite wrong in our public schools. I think her Russian knowledge is actually going to enrich her English, especially if she's not pushed in her English acquisition. So, when it comes to going to school this year, I'm not worried about her English, but I am a bit worried about her giving up on her Russian. I thought one more year at home would give us more chances to strengthen her Russian. Do you think I'm preparing her for a rough entry when I bring her to 1st grade?
> >
> > I am of course planning to find socializing opportunities for her in case she stays home. It's true, I will have my hands full with the baby, but the "new house" is very likely to be simply a 2-bedroom apartment, so that shouldn't be a big deal especially if I take it slowly.
> >
> > In any case, I guess, what I'm going to do is take her to school when it starts and let her know that she can stay home if she wants to. I would love to leave her home, but I can't think of a smart way to do it without her feeling I'm leaving her behind other kids her age. We'll see how it works out.
> >
> >
> > --- In [email protected], "Meredith" <plaidpanties666@> wrote:
> > >
> > > "marbleface@" <marbleface@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > If the plan is to send her to school starting with 1st grade, I think the kindest thing would be to send her starting with K.
> > > *************
> > >
> > > For a contrary view, you might want to read Better Late than Early about the benefits of delaying education.
> > >
> > > ---Meredith
> > >
> >
>
Joyce Fetteroll
On Mar 20, 2012, at 10:36 PM, yule189 wrote:
The most damaging part of school is that kids don't have a choice about being there and they feel powerless to make any changes.
If someone knows a loved one could help them out of a bad situation but the loved one is refusing because the problems are a positive challenge, it damages the relationship. It might make the person stronger and more independent. It might make them feel more helpless. Either way it's very likely they'll trust the person less.
It will help your daughter and your relationship with her to focus on her rather than on the experience and what she might get from it. If *she* sees it as an interesting challenge, if she knows she can bail if it's taking more than she's getting from it, then it's far more likely to be a positive experience for her.
It helps to not focus on *potential* ends and focus on your daughter's experience being a positive one in whatever she does.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Some problems can be seen as positive challenges.They *can* be but whether they are depends on two things: personality and how empowered the person feels within the situation.
The most damaging part of school is that kids don't have a choice about being there and they feel powerless to make any changes.
If someone knows a loved one could help them out of a bad situation but the loved one is refusing because the problems are a positive challenge, it damages the relationship. It might make the person stronger and more independent. It might make them feel more helpless. Either way it's very likely they'll trust the person less.
> I would say that getting adjusted to a new situation can be hard but it can also be enriching.Providing access to a wealth of situations is good. But focusing on what possible good might come from difficulties causes people to miss the damage they can cause and why.
It will help your daughter and your relationship with her to focus on her rather than on the experience and what she might get from it. If *she* sees it as an interesting challenge, if she knows she can bail if it's taking more than she's getting from it, then it's far more likely to be a positive experience for her.
> but in the end the experience they had was invaluable.People generally don't write articles about how experience damaged their kids. The parents often feel too guilty or they blame the kids. So we get a very skewed view of the effects of hardship on kids.
> I believe that being bilingual is a huge advantage.Huge might be an overstatement. It could open some doors for her. It's certainly useful for someone who enjoys languages and two different cultures. But the enjoyment will depend more on personality, relationship with the people who speak the two languages and interests than than being bilingual.
It helps to not focus on *potential* ends and focus on your daughter's experience being a positive one in whatever she does.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Best of luck! I'm sure you will figure out the best path for your daughter.
Nance
Nance
--- In [email protected], "yule189" <yborisova@...> wrote:
>
> Nance,
> thanks for your thoughts--you are really making good points and helping me examine the issue from different perspectives. However, I do feel there are reasons to hold her for K, the most important one being that she'll be more mature in a year.
lindaguitar
Yulia,
I also feel that kids should have lots of time to run around and play outside (and indoors); basically, kids need to be allowed time to play!
Having unschooled my kids, I really did enjoy spending lots of time with them as they grew up!
After reading what you wrote about this decision, and what others wrote back, it seems to me that one possible solution might be for you to enroll your daughter in kindergarten in the fall, but let her know what homeschooling IS (you don't have to try to explain unschooling, just let her know that there are lots of kids who learn at home instead of going to school, and that it's one of many acceptable choices for families), and tell her that if she ever decides that she would rather be homeschooled and not go to school anymore, she should let you know.
She might decide that she doesn't like school after just a few days! In that case, she will have experienced school, and will be happier for being homeschooled. BUT - in that case, it seems like it would be unfair to force her to go to school in 1st grade! Unschooling is really a lifestyle of freedom and respect for the child, trust in the child's natural growing and learning process, and it brings families closer together; have you considered really unschooling, and NOT sending her to school for 1st grade?
(I just looked again at what you wrote and noticed that you said you'd have to move to another neighborhood to send her to school. Is that a definite "must"? Is the public school in your neighborhood unsafe? Or are you looking into a particular private school? Moving is a big deal, and maybe not worth it if the likely outcome is that she will not end up staying in school.)
I can tell you, as a mom of two unschooled young adults, unschooling seems to produce awesome, self-actualized, self-motivated kids/teens/young adults!
There are no guarantees in life, but, based on my experience, it seems that unschooled kids, in general, have a much higher rate than public school kids of retaining their innate curiosity and love of learning, as well as being more polite, kind, friendly, calm, happy, and interesting to talk to.
On the other hand, if your daughter starts kindergarten and LIKES it, you don't need to worry that she will forget her Russian. You just need to make an effort to always speak Russian at home, read to her in Russian, get her some videos of Russian kids' programs to watch, and socialize with other Russian families. I used to babysit after school for two kids whose parents were Russian. They had always attended public school. But the parents only spoke Russian to the kids, read them Russian books, had Russian movies in the house, and the kids were completely bilingual.
If your daughter goes to school for kindergarten and is happy there, but starts getting unhappy with school in first grade, you still have the option of homeschooling/unschooling. It is in 1st grade that school becomes really oppressive for many kids.
Linda
I also feel that kids should have lots of time to run around and play outside (and indoors); basically, kids need to be allowed time to play!
Having unschooled my kids, I really did enjoy spending lots of time with them as they grew up!
After reading what you wrote about this decision, and what others wrote back, it seems to me that one possible solution might be for you to enroll your daughter in kindergarten in the fall, but let her know what homeschooling IS (you don't have to try to explain unschooling, just let her know that there are lots of kids who learn at home instead of going to school, and that it's one of many acceptable choices for families), and tell her that if she ever decides that she would rather be homeschooled and not go to school anymore, she should let you know.
She might decide that she doesn't like school after just a few days! In that case, she will have experienced school, and will be happier for being homeschooled. BUT - in that case, it seems like it would be unfair to force her to go to school in 1st grade! Unschooling is really a lifestyle of freedom and respect for the child, trust in the child's natural growing and learning process, and it brings families closer together; have you considered really unschooling, and NOT sending her to school for 1st grade?
(I just looked again at what you wrote and noticed that you said you'd have to move to another neighborhood to send her to school. Is that a definite "must"? Is the public school in your neighborhood unsafe? Or are you looking into a particular private school? Moving is a big deal, and maybe not worth it if the likely outcome is that she will not end up staying in school.)
I can tell you, as a mom of two unschooled young adults, unschooling seems to produce awesome, self-actualized, self-motivated kids/teens/young adults!
There are no guarantees in life, but, based on my experience, it seems that unschooled kids, in general, have a much higher rate than public school kids of retaining their innate curiosity and love of learning, as well as being more polite, kind, friendly, calm, happy, and interesting to talk to.
On the other hand, if your daughter starts kindergarten and LIKES it, you don't need to worry that she will forget her Russian. You just need to make an effort to always speak Russian at home, read to her in Russian, get her some videos of Russian kids' programs to watch, and socialize with other Russian families. I used to babysit after school for two kids whose parents were Russian. They had always attended public school. But the parents only spoke Russian to the kids, read them Russian books, had Russian movies in the house, and the kids were completely bilingual.
If your daughter goes to school for kindergarten and is happy there, but starts getting unhappy with school in first grade, you still have the option of homeschooling/unschooling. It is in 1st grade that school becomes really oppressive for many kids.
Linda
--- In [email protected], "yule189" <yborisova@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> my daughter is supposed to start Kindergarten this fall. The closer
> we get there, the more attracted I become to the idea of
> unschooling her, at least for the kindergarten year. here are a few
> reasons why I'd like unschooling:
> 1. I think a 5-year-old needs to be out playing as much as possible. ....
> 3. I want to be able to hang out with my daughter, do interesting things with her. ....
> 4. .... We speak Russian at home, and keeping her home for one more year maybe will strengthen her Russian even further, ....
> 5. (another minor reason): Her going to Kindergarten would mean that we'd have to move from our current neighborhood. ....
Joyce Fetteroll
On Mar 24, 2012, at 1:06 PM, lindaguitar wrote:
I think many people, without realizing it, get the feeling that their kids have somehow absorbed why unschooling is so much better than school from our own experiences with school. But they haven't, of course. If they've always unschooled, they can only speak with authority about their unschooling experience and only theoretically about school.
I'm not suggesting everyone send their kids to school to get that hands on knowledge of school! ;-) But if a child wants to try, the point of unschooling is that kids learn best through experience. We can't' pour in our knowledge of school any more than school can pour in knowledge of the world.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> She might decide that she doesn't like school after just a few days!My daughter tried 2nd grade and she lasted 2 months. She got to experience the good parts, and the parts she was curious about. When the bad parts outweighed the good, she was able to leave.
I think many people, without realizing it, get the feeling that their kids have somehow absorbed why unschooling is so much better than school from our own experiences with school. But they haven't, of course. If they've always unschooled, they can only speak with authority about their unschooling experience and only theoretically about school.
I'm not suggesting everyone send their kids to school to get that hands on knowledge of school! ;-) But if a child wants to try, the point of unschooling is that kids learn best through experience. We can't' pour in our knowledge of school any more than school can pour in knowledge of the world.
> On the other hand, if your daughter starts kindergarten and LIKES it,That will completely depend on the child. While parents can create the environment that would support a child being bilingual, not all kids in that environment will be. Some kids have a greater facility for language and will effortlessly move from one language to another. Others are not as verbal so trying to express themselves in one language is hard enough for them. I believe she said her daughter picked up just enough English to get by so it sounds like she's more the second type.
> you don't need to worry that she will forget her Russian. You just need
> to make an effort to always speak Russian at home, read to her in Russian,
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
yule189
Hi Linda,,
Thanks so much for the message. About our plan to take Eva to 1st grade and not to unschool the whole way. I would absolutely love to try unschooling her, but there're a couple of complications. My husband is not on the same page with me. He's fine with skipping the K year, but at this point he wouldn't agree with me about unschooling her all the way. Second is that I'll need (and want) to start working in a couple of years. I may be able to come up with a plan when I can have my own schedule and so can be with the kids as well, but so far this is all unclear. Living on one paycheck may not be an option for us. Besides, I thought we'd possible try both and see what Eva prefers--that's why the plan is provisional.
I have a friend whole son skipped kindergarten and went straight to 1st grade, and that really worked for them. I realize that all kids are different, and right now it's hard to predict how it will turn out with Eva. I get a sense from all the comments that many people don't think skipping K is a good idea...
As for the public school in our neighborhood, I thought about it for a while and actually came to the point where I was OK with Eva going to what I thought was our school and checking it out. Then, just a little while ago I realized that our side of the street goes to a different one, and that one may actually be a little unsafe. Maybe not so much the school--which actually could be the worst in our part of town--as the immediate neighborhood, which is definitely the worst around us. Besides the safety concerns, I think it would not be fair to take my daughter there to let her decide whether she wants to go to school. That wouldn't be much of a choice.
So, we're moving and hopefully she's going to a decent school, and we'll go from there. I may also try to have her do half a day. It appears that we have a right to ask for it in IL, but from what I know I would have to negotiate that with the principal.
yulia
Thanks so much for the message. About our plan to take Eva to 1st grade and not to unschool the whole way. I would absolutely love to try unschooling her, but there're a couple of complications. My husband is not on the same page with me. He's fine with skipping the K year, but at this point he wouldn't agree with me about unschooling her all the way. Second is that I'll need (and want) to start working in a couple of years. I may be able to come up with a plan when I can have my own schedule and so can be with the kids as well, but so far this is all unclear. Living on one paycheck may not be an option for us. Besides, I thought we'd possible try both and see what Eva prefers--that's why the plan is provisional.
I have a friend whole son skipped kindergarten and went straight to 1st grade, and that really worked for them. I realize that all kids are different, and right now it's hard to predict how it will turn out with Eva. I get a sense from all the comments that many people don't think skipping K is a good idea...
As for the public school in our neighborhood, I thought about it for a while and actually came to the point where I was OK with Eva going to what I thought was our school and checking it out. Then, just a little while ago I realized that our side of the street goes to a different one, and that one may actually be a little unsafe. Maybe not so much the school--which actually could be the worst in our part of town--as the immediate neighborhood, which is definitely the worst around us. Besides the safety concerns, I think it would not be fair to take my daughter there to let her decide whether she wants to go to school. That wouldn't be much of a choice.
So, we're moving and hopefully she's going to a decent school, and we'll go from there. I may also try to have her do half a day. It appears that we have a right to ask for it in IL, but from what I know I would have to negotiate that with the principal.
yulia
--- In [email protected], "lindaguitar" <lindaguitar@...> wrote:
>
> Yulia,
>
> I also feel that kids should have lots of time to run around and play outside (and indoors); basically, kids need to be allowed time to play!
>
> Having unschooled my kids, I really did enjoy spending lots of time with them as they grew up!
>
> After reading what you wrote about this decision, and what others wrote back, it seems to me that one possible solution might be for you to enroll your daughter in kindergarten in the fall, but let her know what homeschooling IS (you don't have to try to explain unschooling, just let her know that there are lots of kids who learn at home instead of going to school, and that it's one of many acceptable choices for families), and tell her that if she ever decides that she would rather be homeschooled and not go to school anymore, she should let you know.
>
> She might decide that she doesn't like school after just a few days! In that case, she will have experienced school, and will be happier for being homeschooled. BUT - in that case, it seems like it would be unfair to force her to go to school in 1st grade! Unschooling is really a lifestyle of freedom and respect for the child, trust in the child's natural growing and learning process, and it brings families closer together; have you considered really unschooling, and NOT sending her to school for 1st grade?
>
> (I just looked again at what you wrote and noticed that you said you'd have to move to another neighborhood to send her to school. Is that a definite "must"? Is the public school in your neighborhood unsafe? Or are you looking into a particular private school? Moving is a big deal, and maybe not worth it if the likely outcome is that she will not end up staying in school.)
>
> I can tell you, as a mom of two unschooled young adults, unschooling seems to produce awesome, self-actualized, self-motivated kids/teens/young adults!
>
> There are no guarantees in life, but, based on my experience, it seems that unschooled kids, in general, have a much higher rate than public school kids of retaining their innate curiosity and love of learning, as well as being more polite, kind, friendly, calm, happy, and interesting to talk to.
>
> On the other hand, if your daughter starts kindergarten and LIKES it, you don't need to worry that she will forget her Russian. You just need to make an effort to always speak Russian at home, read to her in Russian, get her some videos of Russian kids' programs to watch, and socialize with other Russian families. I used to babysit after school for two kids whose parents were Russian. They had always attended public school. But the parents only spoke Russian to the kids, read them Russian books, had Russian movies in the house, and the kids were completely bilingual.
>
> If your daughter goes to school for kindergarten and is happy there, but starts getting unhappy with school in first grade, you still have the option of homeschooling/unschooling. It is in 1st grade that school becomes really oppressive for many kids.
>
> Linda
>
> --- In [email protected], "yule189" <yborisova@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> > my daughter is supposed to start Kindergarten this fall. The closer
> > we get there, the more attracted I become to the idea of
> > unschooling her, at least for the kindergarten year. here are a few
> > reasons why I'd like unschooling:
> > 1. I think a 5-year-old needs to be out playing as much as possible. ....
> > 3. I want to be able to hang out with my daughter, do interesting things with her. ....
> > 4. .... We speak Russian at home, and keeping her home for one more year maybe will strengthen her Russian even further, ....
> > 5. (another minor reason): Her going to Kindergarten would mean that we'd have to move from our current neighborhood. ....
>