New to unschooling with high schoolers
Jodi Harvatin
Hi,
I'm new to this list and am wondering if anyone can share what their high
schoolers do (or don't do). We have done Charlotte Mason for years, but I
got really overwhelmed when I had a difficult pregnancy and then a new
baby. She is now 2 and I'm STILL not motivated to do much of anything. I
have a lot of guilt about that, but there's no use in wallowing, it's time
to do something about it. So, I have a friend who introduced me to
unschooling. My kids are 16 (17 next month), 14, 7, almost 5 and my
daughter turned 2 a couple of weeks ago. So, I understand how to do this
with the younger kids, that's easy. It's the high schoolers that I'm at a
loss about. In fact, this past year, we haven't done much of anything at
all. I'm sure you won't agree with that statement, since it's impossible
to do NOTHING. :)
My 16 yr. old has expressed interest in going to college. He was always
strong at math until we got to algebra. We haven't done anything beyond
basic math, other than a year ago, when we struggled with algebra. He has
a part time job at a fast food restaurant and wants to work about 25-30
hours (he bought a car, so needs to pay for it and insurance, since we
can't), which I think is great. He doesn't enjoy reading and doesn't seem
to have much interest in anything else, so I don't know what to do. He did
ask me to assign him pages in The Teenage Liberation Handbook, because he
wants to read it, but says he never will, unless I assign him pages. So, I
told him I'd do that for him. I want to help him be ready for college, but
don't know how to do that without getting "schooly." I have read some
stories about unschoolers going to college and am thinking he'll be ok, if
he starts at a community college, which is about all we could afford right
now, anyway.
My 14 yr. old is very involved with music. He took a few years of piano
lessons when he was younger and teaches himself songs from the radio and
makes up his own. He plays the bass guitar (self-taught) in the church
band and is teaching himself the acoustic guitar. He spends much of his
day, in his room, playing. He also works at the same restaurant that my 16
yr. old works at. He can't work as many hours, due to his age, but works
what he can and loves it.
Other than that, they aren't doing anything right now, other than watching
Netflix at night or playing video games on occasion. So, since I'm fairly
clueless, is there something else I should be doing with them? Critique
away!
Jodi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm new to this list and am wondering if anyone can share what their high
schoolers do (or don't do). We have done Charlotte Mason for years, but I
got really overwhelmed when I had a difficult pregnancy and then a new
baby. She is now 2 and I'm STILL not motivated to do much of anything. I
have a lot of guilt about that, but there's no use in wallowing, it's time
to do something about it. So, I have a friend who introduced me to
unschooling. My kids are 16 (17 next month), 14, 7, almost 5 and my
daughter turned 2 a couple of weeks ago. So, I understand how to do this
with the younger kids, that's easy. It's the high schoolers that I'm at a
loss about. In fact, this past year, we haven't done much of anything at
all. I'm sure you won't agree with that statement, since it's impossible
to do NOTHING. :)
My 16 yr. old has expressed interest in going to college. He was always
strong at math until we got to algebra. We haven't done anything beyond
basic math, other than a year ago, when we struggled with algebra. He has
a part time job at a fast food restaurant and wants to work about 25-30
hours (he bought a car, so needs to pay for it and insurance, since we
can't), which I think is great. He doesn't enjoy reading and doesn't seem
to have much interest in anything else, so I don't know what to do. He did
ask me to assign him pages in The Teenage Liberation Handbook, because he
wants to read it, but says he never will, unless I assign him pages. So, I
told him I'd do that for him. I want to help him be ready for college, but
don't know how to do that without getting "schooly." I have read some
stories about unschoolers going to college and am thinking he'll be ok, if
he starts at a community college, which is about all we could afford right
now, anyway.
My 14 yr. old is very involved with music. He took a few years of piano
lessons when he was younger and teaches himself songs from the radio and
makes up his own. He plays the bass guitar (self-taught) in the church
band and is teaching himself the acoustic guitar. He spends much of his
day, in his room, playing. He also works at the same restaurant that my 16
yr. old works at. He can't work as many hours, due to his age, but works
what he can and loves it.
Other than that, they aren't doing anything right now, other than watching
Netflix at night or playing video games on occasion. So, since I'm fairly
clueless, is there something else I should be doing with them? Critique
away!
Jodi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
Jodi Harvatin <jodskiinca@...> wrote:
Ray's 18, so technically he's not even an unschooler any more, but over the past few years he has done a number of different things. He's very busy and social, so we spent a lot of time taking him where he wanted to go and helping him get rides when we couldn't take him. We helped him find places and people and events and the sorts of resources which are useful to him.
Do your teens Want to unschool? If it's new to them, it may be an intimidating idea, especially if they're used to a more directed educational program. They might see it as a kind of trick to get them to take more responsibility than they really want, or a way for you to get out of helping them. If you're not up to helping them do what they want to do, it might be a good idea to brainstorm some options with them - school? an online curriculum? a tutor?
You might find some more ideas at the following links:
http://sandradodd.com/strew/teens
http://sandradodd.com/strewing
---Meredith
> I'm new to this list and am wondering if anyone can share what their highWell, since they're unschoolers, they're Not high-schoolers ;)
> schoolers do (or don't do).
Ray's 18, so technically he's not even an unschooler any more, but over the past few years he has done a number of different things. He's very busy and social, so we spent a lot of time taking him where he wanted to go and helping him get rides when we couldn't take him. We helped him find places and people and events and the sorts of resources which are useful to him.
>>I'm STILL not motivated to do much of anything. IWow, that makes it sound like you can unschool without ever leaving your couch... especially with older teens who often want to be out and doing. Younger teens sometimes go through a kind of cocooning stage where they spend a lot of time by themselves, but older teens tend to want more. Those are big generalizations! but unschooling is first and foremost about being engaged with and responsive to your kids.
> have a lot of guilt about that, but there's no use in wallowing, it's time
> to do something about it. So, I have a friend who introduced me to
> unschooling.
Do your teens Want to unschool? If it's new to them, it may be an intimidating idea, especially if they're used to a more directed educational program. They might see it as a kind of trick to get them to take more responsibility than they really want, or a way for you to get out of helping them. If you're not up to helping them do what they want to do, it might be a good idea to brainstorm some options with them - school? an online curriculum? a tutor?
>> is there something else I should be doing with them?A good way to start unschooling is to live like you're on vacation for awhile - since you've been doing home-ed, you'll probably need a solid year or more to deschool, especially the teens. That makes transitioning to unschooling unpractical for the eldest unless he obviously need to spend a Lot of time chilling out. But the rest of the kids - live like you're on holiday. Get out and do fun things for the fun of it. Throw house parties or hold movie marathons. Spend days window shopping. Spend hours at a "claw" machine. Go to a big event and get goofy temporary tattoos or face paint. Stay up all night playing video games. Live That kind of holiday, with plenty of time chilling out and snuggling, too.
You might find some more ideas at the following links:
http://sandradodd.com/strew/teens
http://sandradodd.com/strewing
---Meredith
Schuyler
>>My 16 yr. old has expressed interest in going to college.<<Parents often jump on a vague expression by a child of a desire to go to university as though it were water in a desert. It's the promised land, if you can get your teenager to sign up for higher education your decisions to rock the boat by homeschooling are validated. Or something like that. I would step back from the belief that he really wants to go to university. Even if it is true, he's short term goal of having his car be insured are bigger in his picture than the much longer term picture of a bachelor's degree. Help him to reach his real goals rather than the goals you are hoping are his.
"So, since I'm fairly clueless, is there something else I should be doing with them? "
Make their lives interesting and engaging. Find things to do. Go out more.Watch movies with them on netflix that they haven't seen or ones that you all love and can quote the dialogue from word for word. Have a party, dance, sing, laugh. Worry less and play more. Unschooling takes you being there with them, you offering cool and fun things to do and exploring the world as their partner. Figure out how to do that by spending lots and lots of time with them and really getting to know who they are right now.
Schuyler
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Jodi Harvatin
Meredith,
Thank you so much for your reply.
only lived in Oklahoma for 3 1/2 years, so aren't as familiar with the area
as we would be, if we had lived here our whole lives. Something to work on.
*
motivated to do anything "schooly." Like, assigning things for them to do,
which is NOT unschooling, so I need to get over feeling like we're not
doing anything, right? :) I guess, I thought that at their ages (16 and
14), I should be doing something more formal with them, even as
unschoolers. I guess, I thought that the playing etc. that unschoolers do
when they're young, needs to have more focus when they're older. Clearly,
I haven't fully grasped the concept of unschooling. *
year old does for sure. When I talked to them about it, my 14 yr. old
said, "So, we don't have to do math anymore? Good because I hate math!"
My 16 yr. old likes the idea, but they both worry about not knowing what
kids their age know. That's when I suggested the Teenage Liberation
Handbook (maybe there's a better one?) that my 16 yr. old asked me to
"assign" pages for him to read.*
been working as much as he can and I explained to him that THAT'S education
right there!*
differently with my 16 yr. old?*
being WITH them and not just letting them go off and play while I do
housework or cook or whatever. It's hard because my parents weren't
involved with me at all, so I struggle with knowing what to do with them.
Thanks again. Your response was very helpful. *
*
*
*Jodi*
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thank you so much for your reply.
>*You have a good point there!*
> >Well, since they're unschoolers, they're Not high-schoolers ;)
>
> Ray's 18, so technically he's not even an unschooler any more, but over*Ok, it's the helping them find places and people that is tough. We've
> the past few years he has done a number of different things. He's very busy
> and social, so we spent a lot of time taking him where he wanted to go and
> helping him get rides when we couldn't take him. We helped him find places
> and people and events and the sorts of resources which are useful to him.
>
>
only lived in Oklahoma for 3 1/2 years, so aren't as familiar with the area
as we would be, if we had lived here our whole lives. Something to work on.
*
> >>I'm STILL not motivated to do much of anything. I*Shoot...I should have made myself more clear. I meant that I'm not
> > have a lot of guilt about that, but there's no use in wallowing, it's
> time
> > to do something about it. So, I have a friend who introduced me to
> > unschooling.
>
> Wow, that makes it sound like you can unschool without ever leaving your
> couch... especially with older teens who often want to be out and doing.
> Younger teens sometimes go through a kind of cocooning stage where they
> spend a lot of time by themselves, but older teens tend to want more. Those
> are big generalizations! but unschooling is first and foremost about being
> engaged with and responsive to your kids.
>
motivated to do anything "schooly." Like, assigning things for them to do,
which is NOT unschooling, so I need to get over feeling like we're not
doing anything, right? :) I guess, I thought that at their ages (16 and
14), I should be doing something more formal with them, even as
unschoolers. I guess, I thought that the playing etc. that unschoolers do
when they're young, needs to have more focus when they're older. Clearly,
I haven't fully grasped the concept of unschooling. *
>*Those are great ideas. I do believe they want to unschool. Well, my 14
> Do your teens Want to unschool? If it's new to them, it may be an
> intimidating idea, especially if they're used to a more directed
> educational program. They might see it as a kind of trick to get them to
> take more responsibility than they really want, or a way for you to get out
> of helping them. If you're not up to helping them do what they want to do,
> it might be a good idea to brainstorm some options with them - school? an
> online curriculum? a tutor?
>
year old does for sure. When I talked to them about it, my 14 yr. old
said, "So, we don't have to do math anymore? Good because I hate math!"
My 16 yr. old likes the idea, but they both worry about not knowing what
kids their age know. That's when I suggested the Teenage Liberation
Handbook (maybe there's a better one?) that my 16 yr. old asked me to
"assign" pages for him to read.*
>*That's pretty much what we've done this whole year. My 16 yr. old has
>
> A good way to start unschooling is to live like you're on vacation for
> awhile - since you've been doing home-ed, you'll probably need a solid year
> or more to deschool, especially the teens.
>
been working as much as he can and I explained to him that THAT'S education
right there!*
> That makes transitioning to unschooling unpractical for the eldest unless*What do you mean by that? Is there something I should be doing
> he obviously need to spend a Lot of time chilling out.
>
differently with my 16 yr. old?*
> But the rest of the kids - live like you're on holiday. Get out and do fun*Thank you for your great suggestions. Yes, I do need to focus more in
> things for the fun of it. Throw house parties or hold movie marathons.
> Spend days window shopping. Spend hours at a "claw" machine. Go to a big
> event and get goofy temporary tattoos or face paint. Stay up all night
> playing video games. Live That kind of holiday, with plenty of time
> chilling out and snuggling, too.
>
being WITH them and not just letting them go off and play while I do
housework or cook or whatever. It's hard because my parents weren't
involved with me at all, so I struggle with knowing what to do with them.
Thanks again. Your response was very helpful. *
*
*
*Jodi*
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jodi Harvatin
*Hi Schuyler,*
*
*
*Thank you for taking the time to respond to my email.
*
not going to college. Whatever he decides to do to support himself in the
future is ok with me. I was raised in a family who believed that you
weren't good enough (they never said that, that's just the message that
came across), if you didn't go to college and I don't feel the same way.
We were just talking about what he might like to do in the future and he
said, "Well, if I was going to "real" school, I'd want to go to college."
So, I told him that he can go whether or not he goes to a public school
and that I could help him figure it all out, if he wants me to. No
pressure at all. I love the idea of talking to him about making goals,
though. His own, not mine for him. :) *
around the house (I'm not at all a clean freak, quite the opposite, but
with little ones, the house gets messy very easily.) because there's so
much to do. With 6 kids (5 at home), the housework never ends. I will work
on finding fun things for us to do. My challenge is that I have teenagers
and then young children, so their interests are varied. I'll have to
figure out how to make it work for everyone. What I've tried to do is
spend time with the little ones in the morning and give my teens focused
attention at night, when the little ones are sleeping. It's tough, though,
because the little ones have me up at dawn and the teens can keep me up
UNTIL dawn. LOL. Of course, I can't forget my husband. He wants my
attention, too. Phew! I'm getting tired, just thinking about it. Thanks
again for your reply.*
*
*
*Jodi*
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
*
*
*Thank you for taking the time to respond to my email.
*
>*That makes total sense. Just to clarify, I would be perfectly ok with him
>
> Parents often jump on a vague expression by a child of a desire to go to
> university as though it were water in a desert. It's the promised land, if
> you can get your teenager to sign up for higher education your decisions to
> rock the boat by homeschooling are validated. Or something like that. I
> would step back from the belief that he really wants to go to university.
> Even if it is true, he's short term goal of having his car be insured are
> bigger in his picture than the much longer term picture of a bachelor's
> degree. Help him to reach his real goals rather than the goals you are
> hoping are his.
>
not going to college. Whatever he decides to do to support himself in the
future is ok with me. I was raised in a family who believed that you
weren't good enough (they never said that, that's just the message that
came across), if you didn't go to college and I don't feel the same way.
We were just talking about what he might like to do in the future and he
said, "Well, if I was going to "real" school, I'd want to go to college."
So, I told him that he can go whether or not he goes to a public school
and that I could help him figure it all out, if he wants me to. No
pressure at all. I love the idea of talking to him about making goals,
though. His own, not mine for him. :) *
>*Thanks for that, I really needed to hear that because I tend to get busy
> Make their lives interesting and engaging. Find things to do. Go out
> more.Watch movies with them on netflix that they haven't seen or ones that
> you all love and can quote the dialogue from word for word. Have a party,
> dance, sing, laugh. Worry less and play more. Unschooling takes you being
> there with them, you offering cool and fun things to do and exploring the
> world as their partner. Figure out how to do that by spending lots and lots
> of time with them and really getting to know who they are right now.
>
>
around the house (I'm not at all a clean freak, quite the opposite, but
with little ones, the house gets messy very easily.) because there's so
much to do. With 6 kids (5 at home), the housework never ends. I will work
on finding fun things for us to do. My challenge is that I have teenagers
and then young children, so their interests are varied. I'll have to
figure out how to make it work for everyone. What I've tried to do is
spend time with the little ones in the morning and give my teens focused
attention at night, when the little ones are sleeping. It's tough, though,
because the little ones have me up at dawn and the teens can keep me up
UNTIL dawn. LOL. Of course, I can't forget my husband. He wants my
attention, too. Phew! I'm getting tired, just thinking about it. Thanks
again for your reply.*
*
*
*Jodi*
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Mar 6, 2012, at 9:53 AM, Jodi Harvatin wrote:
Since we can't know what kids need, sometimes the kids can't even articulate it, the atmosphere and environment is important in unschooling. And to create that it takes getting to know your kids so you can provide them with support in exploring what interests them and a wealth of opportunities within reach that you believe might appeal to them to expand their interests.
Unschooling is hard to grasp because it involves understanding the "why" (the principles and purpose of unschooling) so you can figure out the "what" that will work for your family.
You could suggest you try it and if he doesn't like it, then he can continue to read it on his own.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I thought that the playing etc. that unschoolers doIt can be for some kids. It depends on their learning style and personality. For some kids it might even look like a college course or two of intense interest. For some kids it might look like deeper, more focused playing. Some kids -- some people -- will always be drawn to knowing a little about lots of things.
> when they're young, needs to have more focus when they're older.
Since we can't know what kids need, sometimes the kids can't even articulate it, the atmosphere and environment is important in unschooling. And to create that it takes getting to know your kids so you can provide them with support in exploring what interests them and a wealth of opportunities within reach that you believe might appeal to them to expand their interests.
Unschooling is hard to grasp because it involves understanding the "why" (the principles and purpose of unschooling) so you can figure out the "what" that will work for your family.
> That's when I suggested the Teenage LiberationWould he like you to read it to him? And then you could discuss it together. The 14 yo might like listening in. (I still read to my 20 yo daughter when she comes back to visit. :-) It was always part of her wake up routine to eat breakfast while I read manga to her in bed.)
> Handbook (maybe there's a better one?) that my 16 yr. old asked me to
> "assign" pages for him to read.
You could suggest you try it and if he doesn't like it, then he can continue to read it on his own.
> So, I told him that he can go whether or not he goes to a public schoolAnd be sure he realizes that he doesn't need to go at 18 when he's "done" with unschooling. College can be even more meaningful after someone's been out in the world exploring, getting to know themselves and the world.
> and that I could help him figure it all out, if he wants me to.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]