Happy Medium between Homeschooling and Unschooling
TL
Hi there!
My husband and I are researching homeschooling and unschooling andI wanted to get some feedback from those of you who unschool. My personal opinion is that unschooling can get a bit extreme, as far as letting the children rule the roost. Our son will always have chores, bedtime and consequences. However, I completely agree with the methodology of teaching them in a natural way. I am concerned that if at some point he wants to go back to school that he may end up being behind if we were to go that route. How are you able to find the happy medium? Any feedback is appreciated.
My husband and I are researching homeschooling and unschooling andI wanted to get some feedback from those of you who unschool. My personal opinion is that unschooling can get a bit extreme, as far as letting the children rule the roost. Our son will always have chores, bedtime and consequences. However, I completely agree with the methodology of teaching them in a natural way. I am concerned that if at some point he wants to go back to school that he may end up being behind if we were to go that route. How are you able to find the happy medium? Any feedback is appreciated.
Joyce Fetteroll
On Dec 19, 2011, at 6:28 PM, TL wrote:
All the practices of unschooling provide benefits to learning and relationships. They exist for a reason not because they're the rules of an airy fairy philosophy.
List members can use part of the philosophy or the whole thing. But what gets discussed on the list is extending the principles of trusting learning will happen in a supportive environment into parenting. Any ideas brought to the list are examined in that light. Where those ideas move people closer or further away from supported explorations and joyful living will be discussed by list members.
When kids are motivated to go to school they don't seem to have problems learning what they need to be where their peers are. That's not a guarantee but the foundation of unschooling is that learning happens effortlessly when kids want to know. Kids who want school are at a huge advantage over kids who don't have a choice to go and are there just filling their seats because it's required.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> My personal opinion is that unschooling can getNo, unschooling can't get extreme. Some people get a surface understanding and take it in directions that aren't part of unschooling.
> a bit extreme, as far as letting the children rule the roost.
> Our son will always have chores, bedtime and consequences.Then you won't see the same benefits that radical unschoolers see in the relationships with their kids.
All the practices of unschooling provide benefits to learning and relationships. They exist for a reason not because they're the rules of an airy fairy philosophy.
List members can use part of the philosophy or the whole thing. But what gets discussed on the list is extending the principles of trusting learning will happen in a supportive environment into parenting. Any ideas brought to the list are examined in that light. Where those ideas move people closer or further away from supported explorations and joyful living will be discussed by list members.
> However, I completely agree with the methodology of teaching them in a natural way.It's clearer to think of unschooling as a way of learning rather than teaching. Teaching is about putting information into someone's head. Unschooling is about creating an environment for kids to explore their interests in, where they pull in what interests them.
> I am concerned that if at some point he wants to go back to schoolI think it's clearer to say he'll be on a different track. He'll be learning different things than they'll be learning in school.
> that he may end up being behind if we were to go that route.
> How are you able to find the happy medium? Any feedback is appreciated
When kids are motivated to go to school they don't seem to have problems learning what they need to be where their peers are. That's not a guarantee but the foundation of unschooling is that learning happens effortlessly when kids want to know. Kids who want school are at a huge advantage over kids who don't have a choice to go and are there just filling their seats because it's required.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nancy Valimaki
This site is a good resource for you to check out: holtgws.com
I think it will help you find a happy medium in your homeschooling experience, whichever way you choose to do it.
Good Luck!
Nancy
I think it will help you find a happy medium in your homeschooling experience, whichever way you choose to do it.
Good Luck!
Nancy
--- In [email protected], "TL" <mknmoney2@...> wrote:
>
> Hi there!
> My husband and I are researching homeschooling and unschooling andI wanted to get some feedback from those of you who unschool. My personal opinion is that unschooling can get a bit extreme, as far as letting the children rule the roost. Our son will always have chores, bedtime and consequences. However, I completely agree with the methodology of teaching them in a natural way. I am concerned that if at some point he wants to go back to school that he may end up being behind if we were to go that route. How are you able to find the happy medium? Any feedback is appreciated.
>
Ann
I used to feel this way too when I first starting on our journey toward unschooling. But here is what happened in our household. The more I let go of the control, the more responsible and cooperative my son became. No I don't make him clean his room. It's messy. But at some point of messy I refuse to go into his room because there's no where to walk and I don't want to hurt myself on legos. I ask him if he'd like me to help him clean up his room so I can walk in there and he almost always says yes, but no is an answer too and he knows that he can say no. As to bed time, he almost always heads to his room when I go to bed because he doesn't like being alone in a quiet house. He turns on his TV in his room and watches or plays with legos until he gets tired. He's almost always asleep within 30 minutes of me going to bed. But that might change as he gets older. and that's ok too. As to consequences, life tends to dole out the real consequences. The artificial consequences that parents try to give their children are not real such as "if you don't clean your room you can't play on the computer. If my son plays on the computer the entire day, his neck and arm hurts. That's a natural consequence. If my son leaves the coffee table covered with Legos and doesn't want to pick them up, then his Dad will take care of it for him. My son hates for other people to clean up his legos because they don't "do it right". So he knows if he doesn't take care of it, Dad will. It's our problem, not our son's problem if we don't like Legos on the coffee table in the evening. My husband does look at this as our child ruling the roost. I don't. I look at it as I have the problem with the mess, so I'll clean it up. My son also figured out fairly quickly that if I have to do all the house work, I often don't have time to help him with things he wants to do.
With unschooling I find that I also have to let go of the structure that I love so much. I have to be available to my son to watch him play computer games, help him with projects he wants to build, take him places to get the stuff he needs for his projects. School isn't at the same time every day, it's all day, every day. Sometimes he works on his own, sometimes he needs my help. Sometimes I sit with him because I want to see what he's doing. Unschooling is much more fluid than homeschooling. Unschooling can radically change over night because my son's needs can change very quickly.
Now that we have come this far into unschooling, I can't separate the school part from the parenting part. It seems to be all the same thin to me.
Ann
With unschooling I find that I also have to let go of the structure that I love so much. I have to be available to my son to watch him play computer games, help him with projects he wants to build, take him places to get the stuff he needs for his projects. School isn't at the same time every day, it's all day, every day. Sometimes he works on his own, sometimes he needs my help. Sometimes I sit with him because I want to see what he's doing. Unschooling is much more fluid than homeschooling. Unschooling can radically change over night because my son's needs can change very quickly.
Now that we have come this far into unschooling, I can't separate the school part from the parenting part. It seems to be all the same thin to me.
Ann
--- In [email protected], "TL" <mknmoney2@...> wrote:
>
> Hi there!
> My husband and I are researching homeschooling and unschooling andI wanted to get some feedback from those of you who unschool. My personal opinion is that unschooling can get a bit extreme, as far as letting the children rule the roost. Our son will always have chores, bedtime and consequences. However, I completely agree with the methodology of teaching them in a natural way. I am concerned that if at some point he wants to go back to school that he may end up being behind if we were to go that route. How are you able to find the happy medium? Any feedback is appreciated.
>
Ann
One more thing. I'm not sure how it would work if my son went back to school, but I've known lots of unschooled kids that either went back to school, went to college, or, as in my daughter's case, went into the Navy, and none of them had any significant issues. They just seems to catch up very quickly in any area they needed to. My daughter scored very well on the ASVAB test for the Navy.
Ann
Ann
--- In [email protected], "TL" <mknmoney2@...> wrote:
>
> Hi there!
> My husband and I are researching homeschooling and unschooling andI wanted to get some feedback from those of you who unschool. My personal opinion is that unschooling can get a bit extreme, as far as letting the children rule the roost. Our son will always have chores, bedtime and consequences. However, I completely agree with the methodology of teaching them in a natural way. I am concerned that if at some point he wants to go back to school that he may end up being behind if we were to go that route. How are you able to find the happy medium? Any feedback is appreciated.
>
[email protected]
If you don't want to unschool, then don't.
Nance
Nance
--- In [email protected], "TL" <mknmoney2@...> wrote:
>
> Hi there!
> My husband and I are researching homeschooling and unschooling andI wanted to get some feedback from those of you who unschool. My personal opinion is that unschooling can get a bit extreme, as far as letting the children rule the roost. Our son will always have chores, bedtime and consequences. However, I completely agree with the methodology of teaching them in a natural way. I am concerned that if at some point he wants to go back to school that he may end up being behind if we were to go that route. How are you able to find the happy medium? Any feedback is appreciated.
>
iksnolbay67
--- In [email protected], "TL" <mknmoney2@...> wrote:
Unschooling means letting go of linear teaching and specific time tables of when someone must learn things. It means understanding that learning is life-long and true knowledge happens when the person doing the learning is the one who wants to understand that thing/concept/fact/skill. The brain makes countless small and large connections with information that are unique to that person - expecting people to learn the exact same thing at the same pace is unnatural. Unschooling lets go of the idea that anyone must "keep up" with others - that's a school system requirement that isn't rooted in brain development at all.
As you read and research more about unschooling you will likely see that those of us who do this avoid saying things like "Our son will always have chores, bedtime and consequences." Not only may you change your mind about this (as MANY have as they learn more about non-coercive parenting) but life may throw you a big fat curve ball that negates those kind of statements. Illness or disability is a scary thought but sometimes they do occur - & these events sometimes throw into stark relief what is really important and what is really necessary to live a life of love, respect and trust.
Keep reading, keep learning. There are big concepts discussed here that WILL challenge you and the way you think things should be done. Please try to keep an open mind as you explore this because it may get uncomfortable for you but if you stick with it you may find a better path for yourself and your family.
~ Christine
>Since you are at the beginning of your research & understanding of unschooling I would caution you to recognize that unschooling isn't really about teaching the child or keeping up with any school's curriculum. If those are your goals unschooling will not be a good fit. I know many people like to think of unschooling as a more eclectic method of teaching subjects but that really is not an accurate description.
> Hi there!
> My husband and I are researching homeschooling and unschooling andI wanted to get some feedback from those of you who unschool. My personal opinion is that unschooling can get a bit extreme, as far as letting the children rule the roost. Our son will always have chores, bedtime and consequences. However, I completely agree with the methodology of teaching them in a natural way. I am concerned that if at some point he wants to go back to school that he may end up being behind if we were to go that route. How are you able to find the happy medium? Any feedback is appreciated.
Unschooling means letting go of linear teaching and specific time tables of when someone must learn things. It means understanding that learning is life-long and true knowledge happens when the person doing the learning is the one who wants to understand that thing/concept/fact/skill. The brain makes countless small and large connections with information that are unique to that person - expecting people to learn the exact same thing at the same pace is unnatural. Unschooling lets go of the idea that anyone must "keep up" with others - that's a school system requirement that isn't rooted in brain development at all.
As you read and research more about unschooling you will likely see that those of us who do this avoid saying things like "Our son will always have chores, bedtime and consequences." Not only may you change your mind about this (as MANY have as they learn more about non-coercive parenting) but life may throw you a big fat curve ball that negates those kind of statements. Illness or disability is a scary thought but sometimes they do occur - & these events sometimes throw into stark relief what is really important and what is really necessary to live a life of love, respect and trust.
Keep reading, keep learning. There are big concepts discussed here that WILL challenge you and the way you think things should be done. Please try to keep an open mind as you explore this because it may get uncomfortable for you but if you stick with it you may find a better path for yourself and your family.
~ Christine
Sylvia Woodman
It sounds like you would be more comfortable with something like eclectic
homeschooling or "relaxed" homeschooling.
Best of luck to you and your family!
Sylvia
homeschooling or "relaxed" homeschooling.
Best of luck to you and your family!
Sylvia
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 6:28 PM, TL <mknmoney2@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> Hi there!
> My husband and I are researching homeschooling and unschooling andI wanted
> to get some feedback from those of you who unschool. My personal opinion is
> that unschooling can get a bit extreme, as far as letting the children rule
> the roost. Our son will always have chores, bedtime and consequences.
> However, I completely agree with the methodology of teaching them in a
> natural way. I am concerned that if at some point he wants to go back to
> school that he may end up being behind if we were to go that route. How are
> you able to find the happy medium? Any feedback is appreciated.
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Debra Rossing
> How are you able to find the happy medium? Any feedback is appreciated.I suppose you'd need to first define what a 'happy medium' would be, in your view (and that can simply be something you think through for yourself, posting the results of your ponderings is totally up to you). However, what I can say is that once you drop the "kids must go to school", all those other "must do" things get called into question. If kids don't have to go to school, then do they need to go to bed at a set hour, given that they don't need to get up at 6:30 to catch the bus? If they don't have to get up at a set hour, do they need to eat meals at the same time as everyone else? If they don't have to go to school to learn to read (write, add, etc), then do they need "chores" to learn how to participate in a family (helping out as needed)? And so on - a lot of what might originally have seemed "required" might get a little fuzzier around the edges.
One thing that also popped out was the idea of "consequence" - do you mean that if they make a certain choice, they'll have results that they need to deal with (such as if they go outside in the rain, they'll get wet and they may or may not want to be that wet) or do you mean if they do something you have a 'rule' about, they'll be punished in some manner? Lots of pop culture parenting references to "suitable consequences" actually mean "find an appropriate punishment to fit the crime". Consequences happen - go weaving through a DUI checkpoint with an open beer on the seat next to you, the consequence is arrest. The punishment may vary - first offense vs. multiple offenses, for example, but there will be something punitive. Does that help a little with differentiating whether you are talking about consequences or punishments? There's not much need to create "consequences" since most of life carries with it some kind of consequence, good or bad. Rules tend to set up a black & white situation - either you keep the rule or you break the rule. Period. Life, in general, tends to be more grey (or gray if you prefer LOL). And then there's the "little lawyer" - you said not to touch Sister, I'm not touching her, I'm touching her sleeve! That's the 'grey' area and most kids can find a dozen different 'greys' to any black & white you try to set up.
Deb R
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
www.mastercam.com
**********************************************************************
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Dec 20, 2011, at 11:28 AM, marbleface@... wrote:
There are definite benefits to unschooling. The benefits are different from what schools provide. To get those benefits requires giving up what school provides. If you have a foot in each camp, neither will work well.
You might find something that works for you and/or your son. But it won't be unschooling. And it won't be school.
It's like wanting to swim but wanting to let go of the side of the pool. Or not wanting to get wet! ;-)
Every choice has its good points and bad points. To get the benefits of unschooling means accepting some bad points like erratic feedback that learning is happening, learning that more often looks like playing, letting go of your own agenda for your child and supporting his, learning who he is to support him rather than having a step by step list of things to do.
Those who decide to unschool do so because *for them* the good points outweigh the bad.
If you need the reassurance of keeping on track with the schools, eclectic homeschooling might be more appealing.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> If you don't want to unschool, then don't.This sounds harsh and yet it's true.
There are definite benefits to unschooling. The benefits are different from what schools provide. To get those benefits requires giving up what school provides. If you have a foot in each camp, neither will work well.
You might find something that works for you and/or your son. But it won't be unschooling. And it won't be school.
It's like wanting to swim but wanting to let go of the side of the pool. Or not wanting to get wet! ;-)
Every choice has its good points and bad points. To get the benefits of unschooling means accepting some bad points like erratic feedback that learning is happening, learning that more often looks like playing, letting go of your own agenda for your child and supporting his, learning who he is to support him rather than having a step by step list of things to do.
Those who decide to unschool do so because *for them* the good points outweigh the bad.
If you need the reassurance of keeping on track with the schools, eclectic homeschooling might be more appealing.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb
One thing I forgot to mention. Check out sandradodd.com. She's very well known in the unschooling world and has tons of info on her sight. She also wrote a book, The Big Book Of Unschoolimg that I just got and it is chuck full of good info on unschooling.
As far as consequences and bedtimes, etc., there is a very wide plain with unschooling. Some people call themselves Radical Unschoolers and take all of the principles of Unschoolimg into the rest of their lives. So don't feel like you have to fit you and your child into a box labeled " Unschoolimg" that leaves no wiggle room. I hope you find what you're looking for here. If you want more resources to get more info just pop me an email and I can give several good websites for you to check out.
As far as consequences and bedtimes, etc., there is a very wide plain with unschooling. Some people call themselves Radical Unschoolers and take all of the principles of Unschoolimg into the rest of their lives. So don't feel like you have to fit you and your child into a box labeled " Unschoolimg" that leaves no wiggle room. I hope you find what you're looking for here. If you want more resources to get more info just pop me an email and I can give several good websites for you to check out.
--- In [email protected], "TL" <mknmoney2@...> wrote:
>
> Hi there!
> My husband and I are researching homeschooling and unschooling andI wanted to get some feedback from those of you who unschool. My personal opinion is that unschooling can get a bit extreme, as far as letting the children rule the roost. Our son will always have chores, bedtime and consequences. However, I completely agree with the methodology of teaching them in a natural way. I am concerned that if at some point he wants to go back to school that he may end up being behind if we were to go that route. How are you able to find the happy medium? Any feedback is appreciated.
>
ushabug
What I believe you are looking for is called Relaxed Eclectic Homeschooling. The thing about calling it "unschooling" that triggers these kinds of responses is that unschooling is more than a technique of teaching, it is a philosophy and lifestyle. I call myself a relaxed homeschooler, I am inspired by the writings of unschoolers and apply a good deal of the philosophy to my relationship with my children. However, since I haven't so far completely jumped ship on homeschooling I call myself a homeschooler.
These are my principles of education I wrote a few months ago for my blog - it sounds similar to what you are reaching for -
1. All Principles are in fact guidelines and are of course flexible -lol
2. Parents and family should matter more than friends or so called "socialization".
3. Always question authority even me!
4. Learning is most effective when child directed.
5. A child's interests should never be put down, but adults should seek to understand them.
6. A child's primary method of learning (whether behavior lessons or "educational" ones) is through play. Play should be actively encouraged even if I don't "like" it or think he should be doing something "more important".
7. Children don't know what they don't know.
8. Therefore, an educators job is to expose children to a variety of age appropriate topics to encourage active learning. This should, however, be done gently and without coercion. Do not be offended if your child has no interest in learning about Egypt this week. Keep your book/craft/website available for when he or she comes back to it.
9. Math and Reading will be learnt naturally when the child is ready if resources are made available. However:
10. A child's natural curiosity and desire to learn will not be squashed by a few minutes of directed activity a day.
11. Children have the right to say, "No, Thank you." to directed activity.
12. Treat children the way you would treat an adult whose opinion you value.
13. Long term feelings about a subject are far more important that short term obedience. Brushing teeth in a forced, argumentative, fighting way is far more damaging than a cavity. Staying up late but feeling good about going to bed is better than fighting and threatening. Memorization of math facts is far less important than enjoying math and seeing it's practical applications. Early reading is less important than enjoying the magic of books.
So I was going to write ten, but like I said not much for rules around here and I've always like the number 13. What can I say, I'm a rebel .
Since writing this I am leaning more towards ditching the directed activity and embracing unschooling more fully - but I thought it might help you. Even if it isn't exactly what this list is for.
Usha
These are my principles of education I wrote a few months ago for my blog - it sounds similar to what you are reaching for -
1. All Principles are in fact guidelines and are of course flexible -lol
2. Parents and family should matter more than friends or so called "socialization".
3. Always question authority even me!
4. Learning is most effective when child directed.
5. A child's interests should never be put down, but adults should seek to understand them.
6. A child's primary method of learning (whether behavior lessons or "educational" ones) is through play. Play should be actively encouraged even if I don't "like" it or think he should be doing something "more important".
7. Children don't know what they don't know.
8. Therefore, an educators job is to expose children to a variety of age appropriate topics to encourage active learning. This should, however, be done gently and without coercion. Do not be offended if your child has no interest in learning about Egypt this week. Keep your book/craft/website available for when he or she comes back to it.
9. Math and Reading will be learnt naturally when the child is ready if resources are made available. However:
10. A child's natural curiosity and desire to learn will not be squashed by a few minutes of directed activity a day.
11. Children have the right to say, "No, Thank you." to directed activity.
12. Treat children the way you would treat an adult whose opinion you value.
13. Long term feelings about a subject are far more important that short term obedience. Brushing teeth in a forced, argumentative, fighting way is far more damaging than a cavity. Staying up late but feeling good about going to bed is better than fighting and threatening. Memorization of math facts is far less important than enjoying math and seeing it's practical applications. Early reading is less important than enjoying the magic of books.
So I was going to write ten, but like I said not much for rules around here and I've always like the number 13. What can I say, I'm a rebel .
Since writing this I am leaning more towards ditching the directed activity and embracing unschooling more fully - but I thought it might help you. Even if it isn't exactly what this list is for.
Usha
Meredith
"ushabug" <ushabug@...> wrote:
Those are some useful starting points! There's also a nice list of "principles of unschooling" here:
http://sandradodd.com/pam/principles
I'm going to take this off on a bit of a tangent to pull out some other principles/ideas which pertain to unschooling.
I'd step back, to an extent, from "age appropriate" and instead focus on what's appropriate to the individual child. If your child finds something dull or frightening, its no appropriate regardless of age ;)
Here's a lovely essay about filling your home with interesting things:
http://sandradodd.com/museum
And a whole page of links to lots and lots of ideas of things to do, get, offer, and share:
http://sandradodd.com/strewing
It's sometimes helpful to think about sharing things with kids the way you would with an adult. When do you say "hey, check this out!" or "share" something on your facebook page or include it in a blog post just because you want your friends to see it too? Unschooling can be like that at times - "hey, check this out!" with kids and parents both getting to start the excitement.
---Meredith
>> These are my principles of education I wrote a few months ago for my blog*****************
Those are some useful starting points! There's also a nice list of "principles of unschooling" here:
http://sandradodd.com/pam/principles
I'm going to take this off on a bit of a tangent to pull out some other principles/ideas which pertain to unschooling.
> 4. Learning is most effective when child directed.Not necessarily because:
> 7. Children don't know what they don't know.Unschoolers can and do sometimes choose to be taught. Unschooling parents can and do offer advice, suggestions, ideas, not all of which are solicited by the kids. What's more important than getting hung up on the idea of "child directed" is to ask yourself what your child's interests and needs are.
> 8. Therefore, an educators job is to expose children to a variety of age appropriate topics to encourage active learning. This should, however, be done gently and without coercion.********************
I'd step back, to an extent, from "age appropriate" and instead focus on what's appropriate to the individual child. If your child finds something dull or frightening, its no appropriate regardless of age ;)
Here's a lovely essay about filling your home with interesting things:
http://sandradodd.com/museum
And a whole page of links to lots and lots of ideas of things to do, get, offer, and share:
http://sandradodd.com/strewing
It's sometimes helpful to think about sharing things with kids the way you would with an adult. When do you say "hey, check this out!" or "share" something on your facebook page or include it in a blog post just because you want your friends to see it too? Unschooling can be like that at times - "hey, check this out!" with kids and parents both getting to start the excitement.
---Meredith