I need serious advice!
amy
I'm a wreak! I have 3 daughters. Ages 9, 3 and 2. I have tried 3 different public schools for my oldest in hopes to find the best one. I tried a home-school curriculum which didn't work because I was having to teach her everything and my two little ones just don't give me the time. Now she is doing Connections Academy at home and it is overwhelming for all of us! She is 17 lessons overdue and I'm pulling my hair out. I have thought about unschooling many times before but I'm scared I will get into trouble or go to jail. We live in CA. Stupid? I would rather take all the money I would need to spend on hiring a private tutor for her to catch up and spend it on singing lessons and theater training which is her passion. How do I get her back under the radar so I can let my family be free to do and learn what they wish?!!
Meredith
To some extent, this is more of a homeschooling issue than unschooling per se and you would benefit from checking with homeschoolers in your area to find out what your legal options are.
That being said ;) here are a couple links to CA homeschooling laws and information:
http://unschoolers.com/california.html
http://homeschooling.gomilpitas.com/regional/CaliforniaR4.htm
http://homeschooling.gomilpitas.com/laws/blCA.htm
The second of those is about filing an affidavit to be a private school, which is apparently the way to go, homeschooling in CA. Becoming some type of private school - your own or via an umbrella organization - is the way to go in many US states, as the laws for private schools are less onerous than for home education.
A more generally useful page for unschoolers who need to report what their kids are doing naturally to the Powers That Be:
http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingcurriculum.html
---Meredith
That being said ;) here are a couple links to CA homeschooling laws and information:
http://unschoolers.com/california.html
http://homeschooling.gomilpitas.com/regional/CaliforniaR4.htm
http://homeschooling.gomilpitas.com/laws/blCA.htm
The second of those is about filing an affidavit to be a private school, which is apparently the way to go, homeschooling in CA. Becoming some type of private school - your own or via an umbrella organization - is the way to go in many US states, as the laws for private schools are less onerous than for home education.
A more generally useful page for unschoolers who need to report what their kids are doing naturally to the Powers That Be:
http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingcurriculum.html
---Meredith
Debra Rossing
In CA, you can file an affidavit and become your own private school - then you can do things however you want, without any of the school district regulations and curricula. Details on that are best left to local homeschoolers/websites. So long as you file the paperwork in a timely fashion (withdraw her as needed from her current school arrangement, file the affidavit, etc), you're free and clear without hiding anything or being "under the radar" - you'll be "off the radar" instead.
Deb R
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Krisula Moyer
In california, there is a wonderful statewide group with homeschoolers of all sorts including many many unschoolers. You can find all the information you need here: http://www.hsc.org/choices.php There is a FAQ page there that might be helpful and join the yahoo group: HSC - The HomeSchool Association of California and ask this question there. It is very easy to homeschool in CA. There is no need to suffer with curriculum or an umbrella/charter school that's not working for you.
Krisula
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Krisula
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
JRossedd
"I would rather take all the money I would need to spend on hiring a
private tutor for her to catch up, and spend it on singing lessons and
theater training which is her passion."
Lots of us have done that very thing btw: Pam Sorooshian and I (JJ) are
just two I know on this list, who have spent years with multiple kids
growing up gloriously in musical theatre, without school. All perfectly
legal (I mention Pam because her family did this in CA; we did it in
Florida's capital city.)
First check your own preconceptions (as revealed through subconscious
words you chose) though. It helps to understand the degree to which
singing and music and theatre are best unschooled, not so much to be
taught and trained as to be loved and experienced through deeply
personal connections and relationships. As you say, because it is her
passion, the best way to live it and learn it is within the right
community of people sharing that passion.
We had a seven-year-old firstborn who developed a passion for musical
theatre and opera. We literally wore out a dvd of the 10th anniversary
Les Miserable in Concert, practially using it like a fireplace around
which we'd gather for mutual warmth every evening. We all knew all the
words and all the harmony parts and sang them in the car, worked the
lyrics into conversation as power of story, happy times!
Then think real community musical theatre, for instance -- right now! --
rather than school drama and/or private classes and teachers preparing
her for years of practice until she might someday get to try it for
real. My daughter spent a couple of years getting known at a musical
theatre dance studio and then started backstage on "running crew" around
age 12 or 13, still too young/inexperienced to be cast and obviously
with an immature body and voice. Yet this is wonderful (free!) real
musical theatre right now, not ten years from now when thety grow up,
with whole worlds to learn and connecting to everything else in those
worlds.
As a growing teen she did get cast every few shows, when they
desperately needed another boy/man in the ensemble, so she got to play
some characters much more interesting than the stereotypical ingenue
(Depression-era carnival roustabout was my favorite, I think, in "Side
Show") and by the time her chest was too developed for boy roles and her
voice was physically developed enough for serious study here at the
university, she had almost a dozen shows under her belt on and
off-stage, not high school shows but actual community theatre.
At age 16.
We figured she might want to major in musical theatre or voice at the
excellent fine arts programs here, but a funny thing happened on her way
there. She didn't see the point in doing something she already knew so
much about, just to earn credit. She wanted degrees that connected to
(but not echoed or remediated) what she already knew and loved from her
direct experience of it in the real world. And she already knew everyone
in that community, as an equal rather than a student, including
professors and star performers of all ages.
Our son is 16 now and starting private vocal study with the same
professor,but as a boy he's been cast since he was 10 and hasn't had the
chance to get backstage much -- they always need his now-booming
baritone in the ensemble. Now that he's tall and his whiskers are coming
in, he'll soon have a shot at young male named roles. Although as I've
learned, baritones aren't leads as often as they once were. Sidekicks
and villains get great songs, too, though. ;-)
When I write about our unschooling through musical theatre, these are
the things I think about. Here's a grab bag of my posts (and discussion
following each) about our son and daughter, including the first one
which my daughter wrote herself, at age 18:
http://misedjj.wordpress.com/2008/09/30/there-is-nothing-sexier-than-a-baritone/
I remember my mom begging me to change the channel when she heard the
opening notes of "Bless Your Beautiful Hide
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyrYBXuz5YY>."
Her argument was:
It was heinous that
a) Howard Keel was roaming the streets looking for a wife simply because
she would be a useful farming asset, and,
b) He had reduced the act to such a transactional level that he was
equating this theoretical woman with livestock.
My argument was as follows:
Shut up, Howard Keel is singing. . .
. . . after listening to Howard and Ezio for awhile, those leading
tenors start to sound pretty whiny and boring.
***************************
http://cockingasnook.wordpress.com/2010/10/07/favds-musical-opens-tomorrow-night/
http://cockingasnook.wordpress.com/2007/07/04/musical-theatre-our-core-curriculum-today-as-always/
http://cockingasnook.wordpress.com/2010/02/11/favorite-daughters-upcoming-musical-coverage/
http://cockingasnook.wordpress.com/2011/07/14/a-musical-theatre-unschoolers-ode-to-last-harry-potter-premiere/
http://cockingasnook.wordpress.com/2008/05/12/what-weve-been-up-to-while-not-in-school/
http://cockingasnook.wordpress.com/2007/06/11/summer-theatre-real-life-learning-in-real-community/
http://cockingasnook.wordpress.com/2006/12/27/sound-is-my-servant/
http://cockingasnook.wordpress.com/2007/01/22/nudes-and-prudes/
http://cockingasnook.wordpress.com/2011/05/29/spring-sprang-sprung-doctor-js-kids-bustin-out-all-over/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
private tutor for her to catch up, and spend it on singing lessons and
theater training which is her passion."
Lots of us have done that very thing btw: Pam Sorooshian and I (JJ) are
just two I know on this list, who have spent years with multiple kids
growing up gloriously in musical theatre, without school. All perfectly
legal (I mention Pam because her family did this in CA; we did it in
Florida's capital city.)
First check your own preconceptions (as revealed through subconscious
words you chose) though. It helps to understand the degree to which
singing and music and theatre are best unschooled, not so much to be
taught and trained as to be loved and experienced through deeply
personal connections and relationships. As you say, because it is her
passion, the best way to live it and learn it is within the right
community of people sharing that passion.
We had a seven-year-old firstborn who developed a passion for musical
theatre and opera. We literally wore out a dvd of the 10th anniversary
Les Miserable in Concert, practially using it like a fireplace around
which we'd gather for mutual warmth every evening. We all knew all the
words and all the harmony parts and sang them in the car, worked the
lyrics into conversation as power of story, happy times!
Then think real community musical theatre, for instance -- right now! --
rather than school drama and/or private classes and teachers preparing
her for years of practice until she might someday get to try it for
real. My daughter spent a couple of years getting known at a musical
theatre dance studio and then started backstage on "running crew" around
age 12 or 13, still too young/inexperienced to be cast and obviously
with an immature body and voice. Yet this is wonderful (free!) real
musical theatre right now, not ten years from now when thety grow up,
with whole worlds to learn and connecting to everything else in those
worlds.
As a growing teen she did get cast every few shows, when they
desperately needed another boy/man in the ensemble, so she got to play
some characters much more interesting than the stereotypical ingenue
(Depression-era carnival roustabout was my favorite, I think, in "Side
Show") and by the time her chest was too developed for boy roles and her
voice was physically developed enough for serious study here at the
university, she had almost a dozen shows under her belt on and
off-stage, not high school shows but actual community theatre.
At age 16.
We figured she might want to major in musical theatre or voice at the
excellent fine arts programs here, but a funny thing happened on her way
there. She didn't see the point in doing something she already knew so
much about, just to earn credit. She wanted degrees that connected to
(but not echoed or remediated) what she already knew and loved from her
direct experience of it in the real world. And she already knew everyone
in that community, as an equal rather than a student, including
professors and star performers of all ages.
Our son is 16 now and starting private vocal study with the same
professor,but as a boy he's been cast since he was 10 and hasn't had the
chance to get backstage much -- they always need his now-booming
baritone in the ensemble. Now that he's tall and his whiskers are coming
in, he'll soon have a shot at young male named roles. Although as I've
learned, baritones aren't leads as often as they once were. Sidekicks
and villains get great songs, too, though. ;-)
When I write about our unschooling through musical theatre, these are
the things I think about. Here's a grab bag of my posts (and discussion
following each) about our son and daughter, including the first one
which my daughter wrote herself, at age 18:
http://misedjj.wordpress.com/2008/09/30/there-is-nothing-sexier-than-a-baritone/
I remember my mom begging me to change the channel when she heard the
opening notes of "Bless Your Beautiful Hide
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyrYBXuz5YY>."
Her argument was:
It was heinous that
a) Howard Keel was roaming the streets looking for a wife simply because
she would be a useful farming asset, and,
b) He had reduced the act to such a transactional level that he was
equating this theoretical woman with livestock.
My argument was as follows:
Shut up, Howard Keel is singing. . .
. . . after listening to Howard and Ezio for awhile, those leading
tenors start to sound pretty whiny and boring.
***************************
http://cockingasnook.wordpress.com/2010/10/07/favds-musical-opens-tomorrow-night/
http://cockingasnook.wordpress.com/2007/07/04/musical-theatre-our-core-curriculum-today-as-always/
http://cockingasnook.wordpress.com/2010/02/11/favorite-daughters-upcoming-musical-coverage/
http://cockingasnook.wordpress.com/2011/07/14/a-musical-theatre-unschoolers-ode-to-last-harry-potter-premiere/
http://cockingasnook.wordpress.com/2008/05/12/what-weve-been-up-to-while-not-in-school/
http://cockingasnook.wordpress.com/2007/06/11/summer-theatre-real-life-learning-in-real-community/
http://cockingasnook.wordpress.com/2006/12/27/sound-is-my-servant/
http://cockingasnook.wordpress.com/2007/01/22/nudes-and-prudes/
http://cockingasnook.wordpress.com/2011/05/29/spring-sprang-sprung-doctor-js-kids-bustin-out-all-over/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Susan Lervold
Hi Amy (and everybody else)-
I've been lurking for a couple of weeks and this is my first post. I live
in Orange County, CA, and just submitted my first PSA on Wednesday, after
withdrawing my 14 year old son from C.H.E.P. (Community Home Education
Program, an independent study charter [public] school in my area), a program
we started early last year. I'd long admired homeschoolers, but I always
thought that I wouldn't be able to manage it myself-not enough patience, not
enough self-control, too short attention span, etc. During my son's
elementary years at our local public school, he seemed happy enough and
enjoyed school. He excelled academically and was socially successful too,
but I was very unhappy with all the standardized testing, teacher absences
(for "in-service meetings, mostly), and in-fighting amongst some of the PTA
moms. I was also concerned with the ever-increasing "values education"
programs, like sex ed, drug awareness week, anti-bullying week, fitness
expos, and the like. And then there was the stuff that wasn't school
sanctioned: as early as second grade, my son got a little sex education from
another child that made my hair stand on end, and only got worse as the kids
got older. I'm no prude (and we've always been very frank as far as sex
information goes), but between the school's indoctrination and the kids'
nonsense (sex, drugs, and ill-treatment of others), by middle school, we'd
had it.
Choosing to opt out of the current educational paradigm is very scary; I
attended public schools my whole life, as did my folks. Until recently, in
my mind, there simply was no other way, other than private/parochial school,
perhaps. I still second-guess my decision to homeschool (what if Matt
doesn't learn anything? What if he gets...weird?). It's still nearly a
daily struggle, but even before I'd found this group, I knew instinctively
that I'm doing the right thing. For sure.
Amy, for what it's worth, I've "unschooled" my kid in California (though
only for a minute so far), and I'm not in jail yet. It's a VERY easy
process, and there's lots of online help if you need it. I'd be happy to
send links if you'd like. I didn't jump into this lightly, and I feel like
I've done my homework; in any case, legal problems are the least of my
worries. It's the other stuff that gets to me, like unintentionally failing
my kid. I try to remember that, worst case scenario, there's nothing I can
do to screw up my kid's entire future...at worst, he'll have to attend a
couple of years at a junior college before getting into whatever university
he chooses (if he even goes to college-that's another story altogether).
However, I suspect that homeschooling will become increasingly legitimized,
not the other way around. And I remind myself that, if Matt doesn't learn a
THING at home, at least he's not being subjected to daily behavior
modification/indoctrination at school!
I have been REALLY impressed by what I've read so far from this group. I
share many of your concerns (in-laws, amount of time spent playing video
games, how to/if to actively try to teach, etc.), and I expect that I'll
have some questions of my own before too long. Anyway, I apologize for
being a bit long-winded this time; I'll try to keep my posts a little
shorter in the future. But it's great to meet you, and I look forward to
actively participating with the group!
--Susan L.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I've been lurking for a couple of weeks and this is my first post. I live
in Orange County, CA, and just submitted my first PSA on Wednesday, after
withdrawing my 14 year old son from C.H.E.P. (Community Home Education
Program, an independent study charter [public] school in my area), a program
we started early last year. I'd long admired homeschoolers, but I always
thought that I wouldn't be able to manage it myself-not enough patience, not
enough self-control, too short attention span, etc. During my son's
elementary years at our local public school, he seemed happy enough and
enjoyed school. He excelled academically and was socially successful too,
but I was very unhappy with all the standardized testing, teacher absences
(for "in-service meetings, mostly), and in-fighting amongst some of the PTA
moms. I was also concerned with the ever-increasing "values education"
programs, like sex ed, drug awareness week, anti-bullying week, fitness
expos, and the like. And then there was the stuff that wasn't school
sanctioned: as early as second grade, my son got a little sex education from
another child that made my hair stand on end, and only got worse as the kids
got older. I'm no prude (and we've always been very frank as far as sex
information goes), but between the school's indoctrination and the kids'
nonsense (sex, drugs, and ill-treatment of others), by middle school, we'd
had it.
Choosing to opt out of the current educational paradigm is very scary; I
attended public schools my whole life, as did my folks. Until recently, in
my mind, there simply was no other way, other than private/parochial school,
perhaps. I still second-guess my decision to homeschool (what if Matt
doesn't learn anything? What if he gets...weird?). It's still nearly a
daily struggle, but even before I'd found this group, I knew instinctively
that I'm doing the right thing. For sure.
Amy, for what it's worth, I've "unschooled" my kid in California (though
only for a minute so far), and I'm not in jail yet. It's a VERY easy
process, and there's lots of online help if you need it. I'd be happy to
send links if you'd like. I didn't jump into this lightly, and I feel like
I've done my homework; in any case, legal problems are the least of my
worries. It's the other stuff that gets to me, like unintentionally failing
my kid. I try to remember that, worst case scenario, there's nothing I can
do to screw up my kid's entire future...at worst, he'll have to attend a
couple of years at a junior college before getting into whatever university
he chooses (if he even goes to college-that's another story altogether).
However, I suspect that homeschooling will become increasingly legitimized,
not the other way around. And I remind myself that, if Matt doesn't learn a
THING at home, at least he's not being subjected to daily behavior
modification/indoctrination at school!
I have been REALLY impressed by what I've read so far from this group. I
share many of your concerns (in-laws, amount of time spent playing video
games, how to/if to actively try to teach, etc.), and I expect that I'll
have some questions of my own before too long. Anyway, I apologize for
being a bit long-winded this time; I'll try to keep my posts a little
shorter in the future. But it's great to meet you, and I look forward to
actively participating with the group!
--Susan L.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
amy
Thank you thank you all so much for the wonderful words of encouragement and advice!
After MUCH thinking through and talking with the hubs, I decided to take her out of Connections. I filed for the PSA and the last two days I have just allowed her to decide what she would like to learn for the day. She chose to learn about Polar Bears, Nile Crocodiles and Whales. Genus and species, habitat, behaviors and statistics. Today she is watching a documentary about America - 120 years after Columbus. It's been much less stressful for both of us and she is actually interested in what she has chosen to learn for the day. My two younger girls (2 & 3 years old) are also taking an interest. I'm not sure if I'm doing this child-led learning the right way but hopefully I'm doing something good. I have just decided to let things go and know that even if she doesn't "learn it all" I have done my best protecting her from all the negative things in public school.
Susan and JRossedd: you said it perfectly! :-)
After MUCH thinking through and talking with the hubs, I decided to take her out of Connections. I filed for the PSA and the last two days I have just allowed her to decide what she would like to learn for the day. She chose to learn about Polar Bears, Nile Crocodiles and Whales. Genus and species, habitat, behaviors and statistics. Today she is watching a documentary about America - 120 years after Columbus. It's been much less stressful for both of us and she is actually interested in what she has chosen to learn for the day. My two younger girls (2 & 3 years old) are also taking an interest. I'm not sure if I'm doing this child-led learning the right way but hopefully I'm doing something good. I have just decided to let things go and know that even if she doesn't "learn it all" I have done my best protecting her from all the negative things in public school.
Susan and JRossedd: you said it perfectly! :-)
Meredith
"amy" <amy@...> wrote:
It's a start - a transitional step closer to unschooling. I'm going to stretch your brain a little, if you'll let me.
You're still thinking of learning in terms of knowledge aquisition when that's really the least part of learning. Learning involves making lots and lots of connections - those connections are where we come by perspective and understanding, humor and even wisdom. Those conncetions are how we grow as people- but you can't "learn" to grow, and most of the time you don't see "personal growth" happening until later. You notice it after the fact.
You can, to an extent, choose what to learn, but very very often choosing to Do something Is choosing to learn. So an "next step" toward unschooling would be to drop the word "learn" from that question and ask "what do you want to do?" with the realization that Anything she picks will involve learning. Even daydreaming or watching tv or going to the mall.
Here's a good page if you want to read/think/learn more about how learning happens:
http://sandradodd.com/connections/
---Meredith
>the last two days I have just allowed her to decide what she would like to learn for the day****************
It's a start - a transitional step closer to unschooling. I'm going to stretch your brain a little, if you'll let me.
You're still thinking of learning in terms of knowledge aquisition when that's really the least part of learning. Learning involves making lots and lots of connections - those connections are where we come by perspective and understanding, humor and even wisdom. Those conncetions are how we grow as people- but you can't "learn" to grow, and most of the time you don't see "personal growth" happening until later. You notice it after the fact.
You can, to an extent, choose what to learn, but very very often choosing to Do something Is choosing to learn. So an "next step" toward unschooling would be to drop the word "learn" from that question and ask "what do you want to do?" with the realization that Anything she picks will involve learning. Even daydreaming or watching tv or going to the mall.
Here's a good page if you want to read/think/learn more about how learning happens:
http://sandradodd.com/connections/
---Meredith
Joyce Fetteroll
On Nov 29, 2011, at 1:53 PM, amy wrote:
http://www.sandradodd.com/strewing
If you think about it, as an adult, you don't decide what you're going to learn today. You might decide what you're going to *do* and explore something that interests you. You might decide today you'll figure out how to do something, but it's rarely so formal as deciding what you're going to learn.
She needs the freedom to not do things that look don't look educational. She *will* learn, no matter what she does. :-) But real learning will come from exploring, trying things out to see what happens, doing new things, doing old things to discover new depths. In other words, unschooling will look a lot like playing :-) (Playing in a rich, supportive environment where there are plenty of opportunities to do and try new things.)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I have just allowed her to decide what she would like to learn for the day.It might help unschooling to flourish to ask her if she has plans for the day. Then support those while also running interesting things through their lives. Which might be a trip somewhere: to the park, to the next town to shop in a grocery store they've never been to, to a cupcake shop, to a Salvation Army, to taste some sushi. It might be sharing your favorite childhood movie, or listening to books on tape in the car, or baking cookies. It should also include leaving interesting things around the house for them to pick up or not (strewing). Here's a page on strewing:
http://www.sandradodd.com/strewing
If you think about it, as an adult, you don't decide what you're going to learn today. You might decide what you're going to *do* and explore something that interests you. You might decide today you'll figure out how to do something, but it's rarely so formal as deciding what you're going to learn.
She needs the freedom to not do things that look don't look educational. She *will* learn, no matter what she does. :-) But real learning will come from exploring, trying things out to see what happens, doing new things, doing old things to discover new depths. In other words, unschooling will look a lot like playing :-) (Playing in a rich, supportive environment where there are plenty of opportunities to do and try new things.)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]