talking with a friend about unschooling
dinalauzon
I was talking with a friend the other day and she was asking me
questions about homeschooling and how to "get started". Of course,
I was encouraging her to not "get started" at all and keep on doing
what she's been doing....playing and having fun with her 4 year old
twins!
She was asking me how a typcial day went in our family's household
and I talked to her about that for awhile and then she asked me a
question that I did not really know how to answer. I have been
asked this by other people too and have often wondered about it
myself. Here's the question:
When homeschooling the children or while they are in school, isn't
it necessary for kids to learn about things they are NOT interested
in or see a point to sometimes because they will come across
situations in life where this will happen when they are adults?
For future reference, how should I answer this?
Thanks!
Dina
questions about homeschooling and how to "get started". Of course,
I was encouraging her to not "get started" at all and keep on doing
what she's been doing....playing and having fun with her 4 year old
twins!
She was asking me how a typcial day went in our family's household
and I talked to her about that for awhile and then she asked me a
question that I did not really know how to answer. I have been
asked this by other people too and have often wondered about it
myself. Here's the question:
When homeschooling the children or while they are in school, isn't
it necessary for kids to learn about things they are NOT interested
in or see a point to sometimes because they will come across
situations in life where this will happen when they are adults?
For future reference, how should I answer this?
Thanks!
Dina
Sylvia Toyama
When homeschooling the children or while they are in school, isn't
it necessary for kids to learn about things they are NOT interested
in or see a point to sometimes because they will come across
situations in life where this will happen when they are adults?
*****
When adults come across something they didn't learn in school or because they were never interested or needed it before -- and it happens to everyone, even school graduates -- the next step is to find someone who does know about it. Life is full of those moments -- that's when we call the plumber, or the cable-repair guy, or the doctor, or whatever expert it is we need. What kids need to learn is how to figure out whom to call to do whatever comes next. No way could anyone learn everything about everything and always be able to answer every question, so why waste time and energy trying to cram all that into someone's head for a vague someday?
Sylvia
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
it necessary for kids to learn about things they are NOT interested
in or see a point to sometimes because they will come across
situations in life where this will happen when they are adults?
*****
When adults come across something they didn't learn in school or because they were never interested or needed it before -- and it happens to everyone, even school graduates -- the next step is to find someone who does know about it. Life is full of those moments -- that's when we call the plumber, or the cable-repair guy, or the doctor, or whatever expert it is we need. What kids need to learn is how to figure out whom to call to do whatever comes next. No way could anyone learn everything about everything and always be able to answer every question, so why waste time and energy trying to cram all that into someone's head for a vague someday?
Sylvia
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
**When homeschooling the children or while they are in school, isn't
it necessary for kids to learn about things they are NOT interested
in or see a point to sometimes because they will come across
situations in life where this will happen when they are adults?**
People say this all the time, but I don't think it's true. I'd like to hear
real situations (NOT hypotheticals) where people have HAD to do things as
adults that they don't see any point to.
Deborah in IL
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
it necessary for kids to learn about things they are NOT interested
in or see a point to sometimes because they will come across
situations in life where this will happen when they are adults?**
People say this all the time, but I don't think it's true. I'd like to hear
real situations (NOT hypotheticals) where people have HAD to do things as
adults that they don't see any point to.
Deborah in IL
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
soggyboysmom
I like Sylvia's answer. I think the best answer to it is to apply it
to real life - when, in real, grown up, out-in-the-world life, do we
do what is being asked? Never, really. We always have some interest
in whatever it is - whether it's because we really don't want to
swim to the refrigerator ;-) or because we want to keep our job - we
have some stake in things and we learn them.
Also, that is discounting the idea of learning just for fun - DH and
I sat and watched several hours of a series on the History channel
on the Presidents. No one was making us study it or testing us or
anything - it just caught our interest and we even learned some
stuff (and even some stuff that wasn't taught in school).
And, as Sylvia said, the main thing in this really fast moving
technological society is to know how to find things not having
everything memorized.
to real life - when, in real, grown up, out-in-the-world life, do we
do what is being asked? Never, really. We always have some interest
in whatever it is - whether it's because we really don't want to
swim to the refrigerator ;-) or because we want to keep our job - we
have some stake in things and we learn them.
Also, that is discounting the idea of learning just for fun - DH and
I sat and watched several hours of a series on the History channel
on the Presidents. No one was making us study it or testing us or
anything - it just caught our interest and we even learned some
stuff (and even some stuff that wasn't taught in school).
And, as Sylvia said, the main thing in this really fast moving
technological society is to know how to find things not having
everything memorized.
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/27/2005 9:58:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, "dinalauzon" <dlauzon32@...> writes:
We learn what we need to know when we need to know it. Had someone forced me to learn about plants and gardening 20 years ago, I may *never* had discovered how much I love it NOW. I would probably have been so put off by it that I would have avoided it for years (kind of like history after three years of Billy Shand, my sadistic high school history teacher!).
There's nothing we need to know how to do ahead of time that we can't learn in the moment or when the urge strikes us.
~Break a leg!
~Kelly
>I was told this about algebra and geomentry! They lied.
>When homeschooling the children or while they are in school, isn't
>it necessary for kids to learn about things they are NOT interested
>in or see a point to sometimes because they will come across
>situations in life where this will happen when they are adults?<<<<<
>My favorite answer is Sandra's: If you knew there *might* be a *possibility* that *in the future* your child *might* break his leg, would you break his finger *today* so that he'll know what to do when he breaks the leg?
>For future reference, how should I answer this?<<<<<<<<
We learn what we need to know when we need to know it. Had someone forced me to learn about plants and gardening 20 years ago, I may *never* had discovered how much I love it NOW. I would probably have been so put off by it that I would have avoided it for years (kind of like history after three years of Billy Shand, my sadistic high school history teacher!).
There's nothing we need to know how to do ahead of time that we can't learn in the moment or when the urge strikes us.
~Break a leg!
~Kelly
faithfulmommy46113
First, a brief intro as I don't think I've done so previously. We're a family of 5: Mom, Dad & 3 children ages 6, 9 & 12. We do unschool, but have not done so for very long, so I certainly have a lot to learn.
One example that came immediately to mind was this: My husband, overall, truly enjoys his career choice. However, he is required to attend certain meetings that he finds pointless & that he certainly derives no learning or pleasure from sitting through. (Please allow me to go on, as I think you'll see that I'm actually agreeing with the majority of you) I realize that, in his case, the *point* of continuing to suffer through these particular meetings (and he has tried to improve them) is to continue in his chosen position in a career that fulfills him.
My impression from the original poster is that the question is really centered around a question of developing self-discipline. The question seemed to me to be asking: how will our children achieve the self-discipline to deal with situations that are uninteresting or unappealing? The brief answer is this: The self-discipline will automatically kick in if the benefits are appealing enough...if not, the now-adult will choose to skip said activity. The long answer follows...
If my "take" on the question is correct, then my personal answer would be as follows: At the adult level, it's a matter of making a conscious choice. You weigh the pros/cons of the choice. If presented with a task that does not seem interesting or seems pointless, then it's necessary to decide whether or not to pursue it. Sometimes, the "point" becomes clear when looked at in this way & one will continue to slog through. Sometimes not. Either way, you make an informed choice & deal with the consequences. I don't know....let's pick a situation. Let's use my example above regarding my husband. He *does* have a choice. He *really* dislikes these particular meetings. However, he also *really* enjoys the rest of the duties he performs in his position. For him, the benefits outweigh the detriments & he continues on.
However, just because he is employed there & enjoys his work, does *not* mean he is *forced* to continue. He could just as easily choose to leave his place of employment & pursue another direction. He knows I would support him in whatever decision he chooses to make. And, no, we're not independently wealthy (ha. haha. hahahahaha). Far from it. I've just lived with him both when he's happy & when he isn't. I'll take happy & fulfilled while eating/living on a pittance over miserable & making lots o' money any time.
Taxes...another good example. I'm sure, somewhere, there are many adults who simply adore doing their taxes. I'm not one of them. Taxes are not interesting to me, but I *do* see a point (even if I don't always agree with it). I have several choices. I can do them myself simply because I personally choose to do so, I can hire someone more qualified to do them for me...or....and here's a shocker....I could choose *not* to do them at all! Ever. Now, if I choose that last option, I need to realize that I have also chosen to accept the consequences that go along with that decision, but I *can* choose it.
Soooo....that was a long answer, but I hoped it helped some. Really, if our children achieve the ability to weigh the pros/cons of decisions & also learn to accept responsibility for their choices, then all is well. In a family who cares for their children & spends time with them...listens to them & converses with them...I can't imagine these life skills *not* developing. Does that make any sense?
Peace,
~Lisa~
DACunefare@... wrote:
**When homeschooling the children or while they are in school, isn't
it necessary for kids to learn about things they are NOT interested
in or see a point to sometimes because they will come across
situations in life where this will happen when they are adults?**
People say this all the time, but I don't think it's true. I'd like to hear
real situations (NOT hypotheticals) where people have HAD to do things as
adults that they don't see any point to.
Deborah in IL
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
One example that came immediately to mind was this: My husband, overall, truly enjoys his career choice. However, he is required to attend certain meetings that he finds pointless & that he certainly derives no learning or pleasure from sitting through. (Please allow me to go on, as I think you'll see that I'm actually agreeing with the majority of you) I realize that, in his case, the *point* of continuing to suffer through these particular meetings (and he has tried to improve them) is to continue in his chosen position in a career that fulfills him.
My impression from the original poster is that the question is really centered around a question of developing self-discipline. The question seemed to me to be asking: how will our children achieve the self-discipline to deal with situations that are uninteresting or unappealing? The brief answer is this: The self-discipline will automatically kick in if the benefits are appealing enough...if not, the now-adult will choose to skip said activity. The long answer follows...
If my "take" on the question is correct, then my personal answer would be as follows: At the adult level, it's a matter of making a conscious choice. You weigh the pros/cons of the choice. If presented with a task that does not seem interesting or seems pointless, then it's necessary to decide whether or not to pursue it. Sometimes, the "point" becomes clear when looked at in this way & one will continue to slog through. Sometimes not. Either way, you make an informed choice & deal with the consequences. I don't know....let's pick a situation. Let's use my example above regarding my husband. He *does* have a choice. He *really* dislikes these particular meetings. However, he also *really* enjoys the rest of the duties he performs in his position. For him, the benefits outweigh the detriments & he continues on.
However, just because he is employed there & enjoys his work, does *not* mean he is *forced* to continue. He could just as easily choose to leave his place of employment & pursue another direction. He knows I would support him in whatever decision he chooses to make. And, no, we're not independently wealthy (ha. haha. hahahahaha). Far from it. I've just lived with him both when he's happy & when he isn't. I'll take happy & fulfilled while eating/living on a pittance over miserable & making lots o' money any time.
Taxes...another good example. I'm sure, somewhere, there are many adults who simply adore doing their taxes. I'm not one of them. Taxes are not interesting to me, but I *do* see a point (even if I don't always agree with it). I have several choices. I can do them myself simply because I personally choose to do so, I can hire someone more qualified to do them for me...or....and here's a shocker....I could choose *not* to do them at all! Ever. Now, if I choose that last option, I need to realize that I have also chosen to accept the consequences that go along with that decision, but I *can* choose it.
Soooo....that was a long answer, but I hoped it helped some. Really, if our children achieve the ability to weigh the pros/cons of decisions & also learn to accept responsibility for their choices, then all is well. In a family who cares for their children & spends time with them...listens to them & converses with them...I can't imagine these life skills *not* developing. Does that make any sense?
Peace,
~Lisa~
DACunefare@... wrote:
**When homeschooling the children or while they are in school, isn't
it necessary for kids to learn about things they are NOT interested
in or see a point to sometimes because they will come across
situations in life where this will happen when they are adults?**
People say this all the time, but I don't think it's true. I'd like to hear
real situations (NOT hypotheticals) where people have HAD to do things as
adults that they don't see any point to.
Deborah in IL
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
J. Stauffer
<<When homeschooling the children or while they are in school, isn't
it necessary for kids to learn about things they are NOT interested
in or see a point to sometimes because they will come across
situations in life where this will happen when they are adults?>>>
What do you learn about that isn't interesting to you or that you at least didn't choose to learn?
Even if it is job-related, you can change jobs if you want to.
Back up because it is a straw man anyway. You don't have to set up a false learning situation because kids learn it in their real lives, just like everything else.
Kids are not going to like every aspect of everything they do. There will be times when they are willing to put up with the bathwater to enjoy the baby and other times, they won't.
My dd is on a gymnastics team. She loves it, lives it, is at the gym everyday and teaches some classes there. She hates the ballet she is required to take to be on the team, but she knows it is a package deal and does it.
Julie S.
it necessary for kids to learn about things they are NOT interested
in or see a point to sometimes because they will come across
situations in life where this will happen when they are adults?>>>
What do you learn about that isn't interesting to you or that you at least didn't choose to learn?
Even if it is job-related, you can change jobs if you want to.
Back up because it is a straw man anyway. You don't have to set up a false learning situation because kids learn it in their real lives, just like everything else.
Kids are not going to like every aspect of everything they do. There will be times when they are willing to put up with the bathwater to enjoy the baby and other times, they won't.
My dd is on a gymnastics team. She loves it, lives it, is at the gym everyday and teaches some classes there. She hates the ballet she is required to take to be on the team, but she knows it is a package deal and does it.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: dinalauzon
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 8:58 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] talking with a friend about unschooling
I was talking with a friend the other day and she was asking me
questions about homeschooling and how to "get started". Of course,
I was encouraging her to not "get started" at all and keep on doing
what she's been doing....playing and having fun with her 4 year old
twins!
She was asking me how a typcial day went in our family's household
and I talked to her about that for awhile and then she asked me a
question that I did not really know how to answer. I have been
asked this by other people too and have often wondered about it
myself. Here's the question:
When homeschooling the children or while they are in school, isn't
it necessary for kids to learn about things they are NOT interested
in or see a point to sometimes because they will come across
situations in life where this will happen when they are adults?
For future reference, how should I answer this?
Thanks!
Dina
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Robyn Coburn
<<<<Also, that is discounting the idea of learning just for fun >>>>
I think there is even more of an assumption behind the original statement,
which is that somehow once a person becomes an adult that they suddenly
cease to be able or desire to learn new things. Or maybe they have just been
trained how to memorize trivia.
Practice at being bored and at wasting time. Bah! It's as wrong headed as
breaking a child's finger so that they have practice with pain management in
case they break their arm one day.
Nor do I find discussing what they do in schools, what the teachers and
administrators and curriculum devisors consider important, worth one single
second of my Unschooling day. However that is just me. You may know by now
that I don't do school conversations with anyone. (I am interested in
learning conversations!)
I guess my first response would be to ask the person to clarify what
instances they meant - I suspect (although I may be wrong) it would be that
tired old stuff about "having to" stick out the dull parts of your dull job,
in order to have the income to enjoy life on the weekends. Of course that
idea discounts the phenomenon of one person's "deadly dull" is another
person's "absolutely fascinating" or "relaxing" or "reassuring".
My answer would be to tell the friend that by Unschooling I am hoping that
Jayn will have the life skills and ability to know herself, so that she can
avoid the trap of an irrelevant seeming (to her) life. If by some horrifying
miscalculation she ends up somehow having a dreary, unfulfilling life as an
adult, at least I can be happy knowing I did all I could to make her
childhood sparkling and joyful.
Robyn L. Coburn
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I think there is even more of an assumption behind the original statement,
which is that somehow once a person becomes an adult that they suddenly
cease to be able or desire to learn new things. Or maybe they have just been
trained how to memorize trivia.
Practice at being bored and at wasting time. Bah! It's as wrong headed as
breaking a child's finger so that they have practice with pain management in
case they break their arm one day.
Nor do I find discussing what they do in schools, what the teachers and
administrators and curriculum devisors consider important, worth one single
second of my Unschooling day. However that is just me. You may know by now
that I don't do school conversations with anyone. (I am interested in
learning conversations!)
I guess my first response would be to ask the person to clarify what
instances they meant - I suspect (although I may be wrong) it would be that
tired old stuff about "having to" stick out the dull parts of your dull job,
in order to have the income to enjoy life on the weekends. Of course that
idea discounts the phenomenon of one person's "deadly dull" is another
person's "absolutely fascinating" or "relaxing" or "reassuring".
My answer would be to tell the friend that by Unschooling I am hoping that
Jayn will have the life skills and ability to know herself, so that she can
avoid the trap of an irrelevant seeming (to her) life. If by some horrifying
miscalculation she ends up somehow having a dreary, unfulfilling life as an
adult, at least I can be happy knowing I did all I could to make her
childhood sparkling and joyful.
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.841 / Virus Database: 572 - Release Date: 1/21/2005