Handwashing
Sacha Davis
Hi all - I need a little unschooling perspective on an issue in our household. This could very well be boiled down to an issue between myself and my wife, but I need solutions.
Finn, four and a half, has started to refuse to wash his hands on a regular basis and will lie about doing it. My wife feels very strongly that hands should be washed after coming in from outside, after going to the bathroom. This has resulted in some yelling/forced hand-washing situations because her goals and Finn's goals are at opposite ends of the spectrum. I'm, of course, sitting smack in the middle. After a recent incident I suggested changing to a soap and water wash after pooping and that it would be okay to use hand sanitizer in other situations - not my favorite solution since being an RN infectious diseases are in my face all of the time, but at least trying to get the needs of both parties met. Despite strong protest, my wife did put the bottle of hand sanitizer in the bathroom the next day.
I get that my wife feels hand washing cannot be abandoned at this time, especially with it being winter and the risk of getting sick increased. I get that Finn is asserting his independence, taking some control in his life, and with us modeling the importance of hand-washing, he'll most likely return to some semblance of decent hygiene in the future. I feel that enforcing hand-washing is not helping him, but it is meeting the goals of having clean hands and reducing the possible spread of gut bugs. This is my wife's primary concern.
Help? I know it's a simple thing, but it's causing friction in our household. Practical solutions or philosophical solutions that might help my wife accept a higher level of risk are both welcome.
Thanks so much
Sacha
__________________________________
Sacha (40), mommy to Finn (4) & Zivia (0) and wife to Megan (38)
Livin' la vida loca in Georgetown, Seattle
Finn, four and a half, has started to refuse to wash his hands on a regular basis and will lie about doing it. My wife feels very strongly that hands should be washed after coming in from outside, after going to the bathroom. This has resulted in some yelling/forced hand-washing situations because her goals and Finn's goals are at opposite ends of the spectrum. I'm, of course, sitting smack in the middle. After a recent incident I suggested changing to a soap and water wash after pooping and that it would be okay to use hand sanitizer in other situations - not my favorite solution since being an RN infectious diseases are in my face all of the time, but at least trying to get the needs of both parties met. Despite strong protest, my wife did put the bottle of hand sanitizer in the bathroom the next day.
I get that my wife feels hand washing cannot be abandoned at this time, especially with it being winter and the risk of getting sick increased. I get that Finn is asserting his independence, taking some control in his life, and with us modeling the importance of hand-washing, he'll most likely return to some semblance of decent hygiene in the future. I feel that enforcing hand-washing is not helping him, but it is meeting the goals of having clean hands and reducing the possible spread of gut bugs. This is my wife's primary concern.
Help? I know it's a simple thing, but it's causing friction in our household. Practical solutions or philosophical solutions that might help my wife accept a higher level of risk are both welcome.
Thanks so much
Sacha
__________________________________
Sacha (40), mommy to Finn (4) & Zivia (0) and wife to Megan (38)
Livin' la vida loca in Georgetown, Seattle
Kelly Lovejoy
Have you asked Finn how HE thinks he could best get rid of germs?
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
-----Original Message-----
From: Sacha Davis <sacha@...>
Hi all - I need a little unschooling perspective on an issue in our household.
This could very well be boiled down to an issue between myself and my wife, but
I need solutions.
Finn, four and a half, has started to refuse to wash his hands on a regular
basis and will lie about doing it. My wife feels very strongly that hands
should be washed after coming in from outside, after going to the bathroom.
This has resulted in some yelling/forced hand-washing situations because her
goals and Finn's goals are at opposite ends of the spectrum. I'm, of course,
sitting smack in the middle. After a recent incident I suggested changing to a
soap and water wash after pooping and that it would be okay to use hand
sanitizer in other situations - not my favorite solution since being an RN
infectious diseases are in my face all of the time, but at least trying to get
the needs of both parties met. Despite strong protest, my wife did put the
bottle of hand sanitizer in the bathroom the next day.
I get that my wife feels hand washing cannot be abandoned at this time,
especially with it being winter and the risk of getting sick increased. I get
that Finn is asserting his independence, taking some control in his life, and
with us modeling the importance of hand-washing, he'll most likely return to
some semblance of decent hygiene in the future. I feel that enforcing
hand-washing is not helping him, but it is meeting the goals of having clean
hands and reducing the possible spread of gut bugs. This is my wife's primary
concern.
Help? I know it's a simple thing, but it's causing friction in our household.
Practical solutions or philosophical solutions that might help my wife accept a
higher level of risk are both welcome.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
-----Original Message-----
From: Sacha Davis <sacha@...>
Hi all - I need a little unschooling perspective on an issue in our household.
This could very well be boiled down to an issue between myself and my wife, but
I need solutions.
Finn, four and a half, has started to refuse to wash his hands on a regular
basis and will lie about doing it. My wife feels very strongly that hands
should be washed after coming in from outside, after going to the bathroom.
This has resulted in some yelling/forced hand-washing situations because her
goals and Finn's goals are at opposite ends of the spectrum. I'm, of course,
sitting smack in the middle. After a recent incident I suggested changing to a
soap and water wash after pooping and that it would be okay to use hand
sanitizer in other situations - not my favorite solution since being an RN
infectious diseases are in my face all of the time, but at least trying to get
the needs of both parties met. Despite strong protest, my wife did put the
bottle of hand sanitizer in the bathroom the next day.
I get that my wife feels hand washing cannot be abandoned at this time,
especially with it being winter and the risk of getting sick increased. I get
that Finn is asserting his independence, taking some control in his life, and
with us modeling the importance of hand-washing, he'll most likely return to
some semblance of decent hygiene in the future. I feel that enforcing
hand-washing is not helping him, but it is meeting the goals of having clean
hands and reducing the possible spread of gut bugs. This is my wife's primary
concern.
Help? I know it's a simple thing, but it's causing friction in our household.
Practical solutions or philosophical solutions that might help my wife accept a
higher level of risk are both welcome.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Brighid Murphy
hey there sacha,
my finn enjoys washing his hands, but i confess it is *me* who sometimes forgets to ask/remind him to. in all honesty, it doesn't seem to have had a negative impact on his health or that of ours. i agree that giving him (your finn) some autonomy will likely help him make the choice to do it himself, rather than being forced. maybe ask the wife if she can think of a situation when she was forced into doing something and responded with a boycott? the opposite, of course, is prohibition and the resulting abuse of the subject at hand?
miss you all!
brighid
To: [email protected]
From: sacha@...
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 12:09:21 -0700
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Handwashing
Hi all - I need a little unschooling perspective on an issue in our household. This could very well be boiled down to an issue between myself and my wife, but I need solutions.
Finn, four and a half, has started to refuse to wash his hands on a regular basis and will lie about doing it. My wife feels very strongly that hands should be washed after coming in from outside, after going to the bathroom. This has resulted in some yelling/forced hand-washing situations because her goals and Finn's goals are at opposite ends of the spectrum. I'm, of course, sitting smack in the middle. After a recent incident I suggested changing to a soap and water wash after pooping and that it would be okay to use hand sanitizer in other situations - not my favorite solution since being an RN infectious diseases are in my face all of the time, but at least trying to get the needs of both parties met. Despite strong protest, my wife did put the bottle of hand sanitizer in the bathroom the next day.
I get that my wife feels hand washing cannot be abandoned at this time, especially with it being winter and the risk of getting sick increased. I get that Finn is asserting his independence, taking some control in his life, and with us modeling the importance of hand-washing, he'll most likely return to some semblance of decent hygiene in the future. I feel that enforcing hand-washing is not helping him, but it is meeting the goals of having clean hands and reducing the possible spread of gut bugs. This is my wife's primary concern.
Help? I know it's a simple thing, but it's causing friction in our household. Practical solutions or philosophical solutions that might help my wife accept a higher level of risk are both welcome.
Thanks so much
Sacha
__________________________________
Sacha (40), mommy to Finn (4) & Zivia (0) and wife to Megan (38)
Livin' la vida loca in Georgetown, Seattle
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
my finn enjoys washing his hands, but i confess it is *me* who sometimes forgets to ask/remind him to. in all honesty, it doesn't seem to have had a negative impact on his health or that of ours. i agree that giving him (your finn) some autonomy will likely help him make the choice to do it himself, rather than being forced. maybe ask the wife if she can think of a situation when she was forced into doing something and responded with a boycott? the opposite, of course, is prohibition and the resulting abuse of the subject at hand?
miss you all!
brighid
To: [email protected]
From: sacha@...
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 12:09:21 -0700
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Handwashing
Hi all - I need a little unschooling perspective on an issue in our household. This could very well be boiled down to an issue between myself and my wife, but I need solutions.
Finn, four and a half, has started to refuse to wash his hands on a regular basis and will lie about doing it. My wife feels very strongly that hands should be washed after coming in from outside, after going to the bathroom. This has resulted in some yelling/forced hand-washing situations because her goals and Finn's goals are at opposite ends of the spectrum. I'm, of course, sitting smack in the middle. After a recent incident I suggested changing to a soap and water wash after pooping and that it would be okay to use hand sanitizer in other situations - not my favorite solution since being an RN infectious diseases are in my face all of the time, but at least trying to get the needs of both parties met. Despite strong protest, my wife did put the bottle of hand sanitizer in the bathroom the next day.
I get that my wife feels hand washing cannot be abandoned at this time, especially with it being winter and the risk of getting sick increased. I get that Finn is asserting his independence, taking some control in his life, and with us modeling the importance of hand-washing, he'll most likely return to some semblance of decent hygiene in the future. I feel that enforcing hand-washing is not helping him, but it is meeting the goals of having clean hands and reducing the possible spread of gut bugs. This is my wife's primary concern.
Help? I know it's a simple thing, but it's causing friction in our household. Practical solutions or philosophical solutions that might help my wife accept a higher level of risk are both welcome.
Thanks so much
Sacha
__________________________________
Sacha (40), mommy to Finn (4) & Zivia (0) and wife to Megan (38)
Livin' la vida loca in Georgetown, Seattle
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ulrike Haupt
Sacha
Please, please, PLEASE do not take this as an attack. I am just going to ask a few
questions.
Who has the hand washing issue? And what does this issue mean to this person? What is it
good for and what fear does it cater to? What does it mean about this person if 'hands are
not washed according to their 'needs'? When is the washing of hands enough? (Remember that
there is also a syndrom of hand washing which is considered to be unhealthy.)
Actually, as I know this, handwashing could be anything else that HAS TO BE IMPLEMENTED
for mere survival on grounds of something that anyone else might consider quite
irrational. The crux is that what is being contended is a symptom which may lead to some
root of disconnection (quite possibly an unhandled trauma - though I maybe way off here,
too.) which may be way out of the presented context. This is definitely NOT a pointing
fingers exercise from me. Like ' Your wife is wrong and is at fault and should get her act
together so that you all can live happily ever after.' Everyone is surely doing the best
they can with what they know how to. There just might be something that nobody is aware of
which is quite summarily being swept under the carpet.
I do not have an answer, but I could give you some more questions if you want to. I found
that certain questions can lead to awesome conclusions.
Blissings
Ulrike
PS I have a similar issue at our home front at present, too. It just has another label.
And I am working on finding the questions that may lead me to what this is all about. So
far I have found that the issue (symptom) presented is a very roundabout indication of
what is really going on for the people involved. It really is not about the 'germs' and
their danger but about some deeply held inner assumption that the world is not a safe
place to be in. This is what I found for my situation. It may be something very much
different for you and the people around you AND I don't have the solution yet.
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6561
(20111020) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
http://www.eset.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Please, please, PLEASE do not take this as an attack. I am just going to ask a few
questions.
Who has the hand washing issue? And what does this issue mean to this person? What is it
good for and what fear does it cater to? What does it mean about this person if 'hands are
not washed according to their 'needs'? When is the washing of hands enough? (Remember that
there is also a syndrom of hand washing which is considered to be unhealthy.)
Actually, as I know this, handwashing could be anything else that HAS TO BE IMPLEMENTED
for mere survival on grounds of something that anyone else might consider quite
irrational. The crux is that what is being contended is a symptom which may lead to some
root of disconnection (quite possibly an unhandled trauma - though I maybe way off here,
too.) which may be way out of the presented context. This is definitely NOT a pointing
fingers exercise from me. Like ' Your wife is wrong and is at fault and should get her act
together so that you all can live happily ever after.' Everyone is surely doing the best
they can with what they know how to. There just might be something that nobody is aware of
which is quite summarily being swept under the carpet.
I do not have an answer, but I could give you some more questions if you want to. I found
that certain questions can lead to awesome conclusions.
Blissings
Ulrike
PS I have a similar issue at our home front at present, too. It just has another label.
And I am working on finding the questions that may lead me to what this is all about. So
far I have found that the issue (symptom) presented is a very roundabout indication of
what is really going on for the people involved. It really is not about the 'germs' and
their danger but about some deeply held inner assumption that the world is not a safe
place to be in. This is what I found for my situation. It may be something very much
different for you and the people around you AND I don't have the solution yet.
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6561
(20111020) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
http://www.eset.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Alix deBohun
No advice, just a different perspective.
I never wash my hands. I mean really, I *might* wash them with soap once a day. Seriously. My kids and my partner the same. We are never sick. We go through a round of the cold bug once a year, I get strep once a year (I have since I was 5). No one can convince me I *need* to wash my hands to be healthy.
Of course, I have no idea what others immune systems are like - perhaps it is more important in your family in practice and not just in theory.
Czarena
________________________________
From: Sacha Davis <sacha@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 12:09 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Handwashing
Hi all - I need a little unschooling perspective on an issue in our household. This could very well be boiled down to an issue between myself and my wife, but I need solutions.
Finn, four and a half, has started to refuse to wash his hands on a regular basis and will lie about doing it. My wife feels very strongly that hands should be washed after coming in from outside, after going to the bathroom. This has resulted in some yelling/forced hand-washing situations because her goals and Finn's goals are at opposite ends of the spectrum. I'm, of course, sitting smack in the middle. After a recent incident I suggested changing to a soap and water wash after pooping and that it would be okay to use hand sanitizer in other situations - not my favorite solution since being an RN infectious diseases are in my face all of the time, but at least trying to get the needs of both parties met. Despite strong protest, my wife did put the bottle of hand sanitizer in the bathroom the next day.
I get that my wife feels hand washing cannot be abandoned at this time, especially with it being winter and the risk of getting sick increased. I get that Finn is asserting his independence, taking some control in his life, and with us modeling the importance of hand-washing, he'll most likely return to some semblance of decent hygiene in the future. I feel that enforcing hand-washing is not helping him, but it is meeting the goals of having clean hands and reducing the possible spread of gut bugs. This is my wife's primary concern.
Help? I know it's a simple thing, but it's causing friction in our household. Practical solutions or philosophical solutions that might help my wife accept a higher level of risk are both welcome.
Thanks so much
Sacha
__________________________________
Sacha (40), mommy to Finn (4) & Zivia (0) and wife to Megan (38)
Livin' la vida loca in Georgetown, Seattle
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I never wash my hands. I mean really, I *might* wash them with soap once a day. Seriously. My kids and my partner the same. We are never sick. We go through a round of the cold bug once a year, I get strep once a year (I have since I was 5). No one can convince me I *need* to wash my hands to be healthy.
Of course, I have no idea what others immune systems are like - perhaps it is more important in your family in practice and not just in theory.
Czarena
________________________________
From: Sacha Davis <sacha@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 12:09 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Handwashing
Hi all - I need a little unschooling perspective on an issue in our household. This could very well be boiled down to an issue between myself and my wife, but I need solutions.
Finn, four and a half, has started to refuse to wash his hands on a regular basis and will lie about doing it. My wife feels very strongly that hands should be washed after coming in from outside, after going to the bathroom. This has resulted in some yelling/forced hand-washing situations because her goals and Finn's goals are at opposite ends of the spectrum. I'm, of course, sitting smack in the middle. After a recent incident I suggested changing to a soap and water wash after pooping and that it would be okay to use hand sanitizer in other situations - not my favorite solution since being an RN infectious diseases are in my face all of the time, but at least trying to get the needs of both parties met. Despite strong protest, my wife did put the bottle of hand sanitizer in the bathroom the next day.
I get that my wife feels hand washing cannot be abandoned at this time, especially with it being winter and the risk of getting sick increased. I get that Finn is asserting his independence, taking some control in his life, and with us modeling the importance of hand-washing, he'll most likely return to some semblance of decent hygiene in the future. I feel that enforcing hand-washing is not helping him, but it is meeting the goals of having clean hands and reducing the possible spread of gut bugs. This is my wife's primary concern.
Help? I know it's a simple thing, but it's causing friction in our household. Practical solutions or philosophical solutions that might help my wife accept a higher level of risk are both welcome.
Thanks so much
Sacha
__________________________________
Sacha (40), mommy to Finn (4) & Zivia (0) and wife to Megan (38)
Livin' la vida loca in Georgetown, Seattle
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
tookute2eat
--- In [email protected], Brighid Murphy <brighatea@...> wrote:
Good luck!
Connie
>Just a thought;)
>
> Hey Sacha, maybe an incentive to wash. I rescue dogs and puppies and we get all kinds of sick pups so we have to wash between litters. They have hand gel pumps in every corner at the adoption clinics although that only takes care of bacteria not viruses and it's very toxic especially to the pups who lick a lot, I much rather prefer washing with soap and water really well ;) We love helpers and the pups need the attention. Maybe Finn would understand that it would be harmful to the pups if he didn't wash his hands? Maybe he will think of germs he picks up elsewhere and how that could effect his family?
Good luck!
Connie
Joyce Fetteroll
On Oct 20, 2011, at 3:09 PM, Sacha Davis wrote:
helped by keeping things in perspective!
What about colds is worth risking a relationship over?
And, really, our immune systems need germs to fight to them
healthy. :-) People are getting so obsessed with germs it isn't healthy!
takes partnering with a child. If it's something parents want kids to
do you do with with them. You keep it light. You keep it fun. You keep
it non-pressured. You keep the information on why you choose to do it
short and don't repeat it more than, say, once a year ;-) You keep it
in perspective!
Make the goal thoughtfully choosing to wash hands as needed as an
adult, rather than a rule that he must do it right now every time mom
believes it needs done. Right now he's on a path of thoughtfully
choosing not to do anything adults tell him to do.
While it's important to wash hands after pooping, it's so the germs
don't spread to others. If you've pooped out germs, they're already in
you and your immune system already has a handle on those. And since
he's with you guys, you've probably all got the same germs in you. So
he's not spreading deadly germs around to the family if he doesn't
wash his hands this time, next time or the tenth time.
As for outside germs, he's undoubtedly already immune to 99.9% of what
he's picking up out there since it probably isn't changing much!
Partner with him in washing before eating which is when he's most
likely to introduce some foreign germs. Keep it light. Make it part of
the routine. Say "Let's wash up before eating." Let him choose to no
wash, but you wash. Make sure there's fun soap and any other
objections to washing have been dealt with. Ask him if there's another
way to keep outside germs off his food. Maybe wear gloves. Maybe pick
the food up with tongs or toothpicks or forks. Or napkins. (Keep these
suggestion light and fun and not every time. Keep it nonpressured. Let
him choose to do nothing. Let the idea swirl around him so he can
thoughtfully choose to wash his hands.)
provide prime opportunities for kids to figure out ways around the
roadblocks.
If the bad guy is making the good guy do something he doesn't believe
is right, we find it acceptable, maybe even cheer worthy :-) if he's
clever, if he lies or sneaks to avoid the bad guy's control and do
what the good buy believes is right.
Moral: Don't be the bad guy :-) Don't be in opposition to your child.
Be your child's partner. Assume he doesn't want to hurt himself or
others and there are roadblocks between him and being healthy. One
big, huge roadblock is the ability to choose. He can't make healthy
choices if choice is taken away. Other roadblocks are the time it
takes! He's 4. 15 seconds spent on something irritatingly boring is a
huge amount of time. When he's 6 it won't be as big. When he's 15, he
won't even think about it. Another roadblock might be the soap. Go
with him and let him pick out some fun soap. (Maybe a pump bottle that
foams. Maybe a bottle with a character he likes.)
And then back off. Suggest a wash. Wash your own hands. But back off.
Joyce
> hand washing cannot be abandoned at this time, it being winter andRisk? Cold are an inconvenience. They're not deadly. Clear thinking is
> the risk of getting sick increased.
helped by keeping things in perspective!
What about colds is worth risking a relationship over?
And, really, our immune systems need germs to fight to them
healthy. :-) People are getting so obsessed with germs it isn't healthy!
> with us modeling the importance of hand-washing, he'll most likelyValues we want to pass onto our kids takes more than modeling. It
> return to some semblance of decent hygiene in the future
takes partnering with a child. If it's something parents want kids to
do you do with with them. You keep it light. You keep it fun. You keep
it non-pressured. You keep the information on why you choose to do it
short and don't repeat it more than, say, once a year ;-) You keep it
in perspective!
Make the goal thoughtfully choosing to wash hands as needed as an
adult, rather than a rule that he must do it right now every time mom
believes it needs done. Right now he's on a path of thoughtfully
choosing not to do anything adults tell him to do.
While it's important to wash hands after pooping, it's so the germs
don't spread to others. If you've pooped out germs, they're already in
you and your immune system already has a handle on those. And since
he's with you guys, you've probably all got the same germs in you. So
he's not spreading deadly germs around to the family if he doesn't
wash his hands this time, next time or the tenth time.
As for outside germs, he's undoubtedly already immune to 99.9% of what
he's picking up out there since it probably isn't changing much!
Partner with him in washing before eating which is when he's most
likely to introduce some foreign germs. Keep it light. Make it part of
the routine. Say "Let's wash up before eating." Let him choose to no
wash, but you wash. Make sure there's fun soap and any other
objections to washing have been dealt with. Ask him if there's another
way to keep outside germs off his food. Maybe wear gloves. Maybe pick
the food up with tongs or toothpicks or forks. Or napkins. (Keep these
suggestion light and fun and not every time. Keep it nonpressured. Let
him choose to do nothing. Let the idea swirl around him so he can
thoughtfully choose to wash his hands.)
> Finn, four and a half, has started to refuse to wash his hands on aWhen parents become a road block between kids and what kids want, they
> regular basis and will lie about doing it.
provide prime opportunities for kids to figure out ways around the
roadblocks.
If the bad guy is making the good guy do something he doesn't believe
is right, we find it acceptable, maybe even cheer worthy :-) if he's
clever, if he lies or sneaks to avoid the bad guy's control and do
what the good buy believes is right.
Moral: Don't be the bad guy :-) Don't be in opposition to your child.
Be your child's partner. Assume he doesn't want to hurt himself or
others and there are roadblocks between him and being healthy. One
big, huge roadblock is the ability to choose. He can't make healthy
choices if choice is taken away. Other roadblocks are the time it
takes! He's 4. 15 seconds spent on something irritatingly boring is a
huge amount of time. When he's 6 it won't be as big. When he's 15, he
won't even think about it. Another roadblock might be the soap. Go
with him and let him pick out some fun soap. (Maybe a pump bottle that
foams. Maybe a bottle with a character he likes.)
And then back off. Suggest a wash. Wash your own hands. But back off.
Joyce
jodie aldridge
Just wanted to second that. My son aged 5 ( and I) only wash hands if they actually feel or sometimes are dirty or if
he/i just feel like it- or feel like smelling the scent of the soap we have each chosen!! . At those times neither of us have a problem doing so.
And neither of us get ill except for the usual colds-.
Best wishes
Jodie
On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 05:47 BST Alix deBohun wrrote:
he/i just feel like it- or feel like smelling the scent of the soap we have each chosen!! . At those times neither of us have a problem doing so.
And neither of us get ill except for the usual colds-.
Best wishes
Jodie
On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 05:47 BST Alix deBohun wrrote:
>No advice, just a different perspective.
>I never wash my hands. I mean really, I *might* wash them with soap once a day. Seriously. My kids and my partner the same. We are never sick. We go through a round of the cold bug once a year, I get strep once a year (I have since I was 5). No one can convince me I *need* to wash my hands to be healthy.
>Of course, I have no idea what others immune systems are like - perhaps it is more important in your family in practice and not just in theory.
>
>Czarena
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
>From: Sacha Davis <sacha@...>
>To: [email protected]
>Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 12:09 PM
>Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Handwashing
>
>
>
>Hi all - I need a little unschooling perspective on an issue in our household. This could very well be boiled down to an issue between myself and my wife, but I need solutions.
>
>Finn, four and a half, has started to refuse to wash his hands on a regular basis and will lie about doing it. My wife feels very strongly that hands should be washed after coming in from outside, after going to the bathroom. This has resulted in some yelling/forced hand-washing situations because her goals and Finn's goals are at opposite ends of the spectrum. I'm, of course, sitting smack in the middle. After a recent incident I suggested changing to a soap and water wash after pooping and that it would be okay to use hand sanitizer in other situations - not my favorite solution since being an RN infectious diseases are in my face all of the time, but at least trying to get the needs of both parties met. Despite strong protest, my wife did put the bottle of hand sanitizer in the bathroom the next day.
>
>I get that my wife feels hand washing cannot be abandoned at this time, especially with it being winter and the risk of getting sick increased. I get that Finn is asserting his independence, taking some control in his life, and with us modeling the importance of hand-washing, he'll most likely return to some semblance of decent hygiene in the future. I feel that enforcing hand-washing is not helping him, but it is meeting the goals of having clean hands and reducing the possible spread of gut bugs. This is my wife's primary concern.
>
>Help? I know it's a simple thing, but it's causing friction in our household. Practical solutions or philosophical solutions that might help my wife accept a higher level of risk are both welcome.
>
>Thanks so much
>
>Sacha
>
>__________________________________
>Sacha (40), mommy to Finn (4) & Zivia (0) and wife to Megan (38)
>
>Livin' la vida loca in Georgetown, Seattle
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Debra Rossing
What is it about hand washing that he doesn't like? I know, for instance, that my DS (now 13) doesn't like hand washing because he doesn't like the way his hands feel afterward (that still slightly damp clammy type feeling no matter how well you towel off). It gets in the way of other things he wants to do (drawing, videogames, etc). Also, I know that bar soap is difficult for him to manage so we have pump soaps of various sorts - a sudsy pump in one bathroom (liquid soap plus water creates a shaving cream like texture), a pump liquid soap in the other (apple cinnamon scent, none of us like soapy scents or florals). On occasions when HE feels a need to get clean hands (like after drippy ice cream cone) or I really have a need for his hands to be clean (like when he's helping me in the church nursery with toddlers), we'll discuss a good time to scrub his hands - often during a TV program that he's okay just watching, not doing anything else for a bit. Then I'll get a nice warm soapy SOFT wash cloth and I'll do the washing for him while he watches TV. Sometimes it's good old soap and water, sometimes it's hand sanitizer, sometimes it simply a wet wipe to remove sticky gunk. Germs, not so much. We do tend to do more hand washing when we're out and about (like AFTER being in the nursery with the toddlers) than if we're just around home - we're pretty much immune to each other and to the house and yard germs. It's the external 'bugs' that might get us - one reason I wash my hands regularly here at work, all sorts of germs roaming on door handles and such that I do NOT want to bring home with me.
Currently, I've asked him to pick a time somewhere between this past Wednesday and next Friday morning to get shiny head to toe (shower, hair wash, hands clean, etc) because my parents are coming to visit for my birthday. I know my mom will want to take pictures. And, yeah, I know it's MY thing that I want him to look good for them (since we only see them a couple times per year). And HE knows it's MY thing, it's a favor he can do for me. If he doesn't, he doesn't. I'll live with it. And, he knows he can have my assistance in whatever way he needs - I can sponge bath him a bit at a time while watching TV if he wants (BTDT), he can shower and get it done himself all at once. The details are up to him, as well as the choice of whether to do this favor or not. He used to love baths but now he's gotten LONG and doesn't feel comfortable sitting in the tub. At the same time, he doesn't like water spraying in his face shower-wise. So, we have a hand held wall mounted shower head - it can sit in the bracket and spray down or it can be hand held so the spray doesn't get in his face, however he chooses. If he chooses, he can wear his bathing suit into the shower and I'll wash his hair for him (adolescent modesty is in full bloom). We'll see how it all works out.
Deb R
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Currently, I've asked him to pick a time somewhere between this past Wednesday and next Friday morning to get shiny head to toe (shower, hair wash, hands clean, etc) because my parents are coming to visit for my birthday. I know my mom will want to take pictures. And, yeah, I know it's MY thing that I want him to look good for them (since we only see them a couple times per year). And HE knows it's MY thing, it's a favor he can do for me. If he doesn't, he doesn't. I'll live with it. And, he knows he can have my assistance in whatever way he needs - I can sponge bath him a bit at a time while watching TV if he wants (BTDT), he can shower and get it done himself all at once. The details are up to him, as well as the choice of whether to do this favor or not. He used to love baths but now he's gotten LONG and doesn't feel comfortable sitting in the tub. At the same time, he doesn't like water spraying in his face shower-wise. So, we have a hand held wall mounted shower head - it can sit in the bracket and spray down or it can be hand held so the spray doesn't get in his face, however he chooses. If he chooses, he can wear his bathing suit into the shower and I'll wash his hair for him (adolescent modesty is in full bloom). We'll see how it all works out.
Deb R
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intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
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This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
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maryann
When we went through a similar thing, we talked about why washing hands is important to adults. We talked about what the 4 year old didn't like about washing hands (takes too long, too boring). And we brainstormed ideas of ways to get hands clean that were quicker and more interesting.
Our list:
hand sanitizer
wipes
wet cloth on edge of sink
multiple choices of soap types (foam, liquid, bar)
multiple choices of soap scents
sink left full of soapy water to dunk hands in
AND handwashing was still left optional.
Our son let us know which of the list he wanted right then, and we provided it, made it easily accessible, sometimes switched it up and mentioned that it was switched up.
AND handwashing was still left optional.
I was raised by a nurse (aka germaphobe). Kids of nurses do not get sick less, but they ARE more likely to have issues surrounding germs.
Remember the more you try to force it, the more he will resist. That is, unless you successfully freak him out and then he may become a germaphobe too. Or maybe he'll just feel guilty for defying you. And he'll think you are not as smart as you say because he knows he's not washing his hands and he knows he's not getting sick.
Our list:
hand sanitizer
wipes
wet cloth on edge of sink
multiple choices of soap types (foam, liquid, bar)
multiple choices of soap scents
sink left full of soapy water to dunk hands in
AND handwashing was still left optional.
Our son let us know which of the list he wanted right then, and we provided it, made it easily accessible, sometimes switched it up and mentioned that it was switched up.
AND handwashing was still left optional.
I was raised by a nurse (aka germaphobe). Kids of nurses do not get sick less, but they ARE more likely to have issues surrounding germs.
Remember the more you try to force it, the more he will resist. That is, unless you successfully freak him out and then he may become a germaphobe too. Or maybe he'll just feel guilty for defying you. And he'll think you are not as smart as you say because he knows he's not washing his hands and he knows he's not getting sick.
strange_translation
Hello!
Check this out: http://scienceblog.com/10882/hand-hygiene-truths-myths-and-misinformation/
In our house, we try to keep the rule that we wash if we have actual stuff on our hands (oil, dirt, poop, spaghetti sauce) that could smear onto our other stuff (couches, carpets, the dog). It doesn't work. Our house is very smeary. But we don't worry about germs too much.
:-)
--Jenny
Check this out: http://scienceblog.com/10882/hand-hygiene-truths-myths-and-misinformation/
In our house, we try to keep the rule that we wash if we have actual stuff on our hands (oil, dirt, poop, spaghetti sauce) that could smear onto our other stuff (couches, carpets, the dog). It doesn't work. Our house is very smeary. But we don't worry about germs too much.
:-)
--Jenny
melissa maranda
I have extremely dry skin, so whenever I wash my hands I have to make sure I have some lotion to put on afterward of my hands feel awful. If I don't have lotion, I hate washing my hands--it's not worth the way it feels. I will use sanitizer or nothing until I can wash and use hand cream.
Melissa Maranda, MA
Licensed Mental Health Counselor
Substance Abuse Specialist
Basic NLP Certified
http://www.facebook.com/mmcounseling
To: [email protected]
From: jodiealdridge@...
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 11:30:23 +0100
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Handwashing
Just wanted to second that. My son aged 5 ( and I) only wash hands if they actually feel or sometimes are dirty or if
he/i just feel like it- or feel like smelling the scent of the soap we have each chosen!! . At those times neither of us have a problem doing so.
And neither of us get ill except for the usual colds-.
Best wishes
Jodie
On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 05:47 BST Alix deBohun wrrote:
Melissa Maranda, MA
Licensed Mental Health Counselor
Substance Abuse Specialist
Basic NLP Certified
http://www.facebook.com/mmcounseling
To: [email protected]
From: jodiealdridge@...
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 11:30:23 +0100
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Handwashing
Just wanted to second that. My son aged 5 ( and I) only wash hands if they actually feel or sometimes are dirty or if
he/i just feel like it- or feel like smelling the scent of the soap we have each chosen!! . At those times neither of us have a problem doing so.
And neither of us get ill except for the usual colds-.
Best wishes
Jodie
On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 05:47 BST Alix deBohun wrrote:
>No advice, just a different perspective.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>I never wash my hands. I mean really, I *might* wash them with soap once a day. Seriously. My kids and my partner the same. We are never sick. We go through a round of the cold bug once a year, I get strep once a year (I have since I was 5). No one can convince me I *need* to wash my hands to be healthy.
>Of course, I have no idea what others immune systems are like - perhaps it is more important in your family in practice and not just in theory.
>
>Czarena
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
>From: Sacha Davis <sacha@...>
>To: [email protected]
>Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 12:09 PM
>Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Handwashing
>
>
>
>Hi all - I need a little unschooling perspective on an issue in our household. This could very well be boiled down to an issue between myself and my wife, but I need solutions.
>
>Finn, four and a half, has started to refuse to wash his hands on a regular basis and will lie about doing it. My wife feels very strongly that hands should be washed after coming in from outside, after going to the bathroom. This has resulted in some yelling/forced hand-washing situations because her goals and Finn's goals are at opposite ends of the spectrum. I'm, of course, sitting smack in the middle. After a recent incident I suggested changing to a soap and water wash after pooping and that it would be okay to use hand sanitizer in other situations - not my favorite solution since being an RN infectious diseases are in my face all of the time, but at least trying to get the needs of both parties met. Despite strong protest, my wife did put the bottle of hand sanitizer in the bathroom the next day.
>
>I get that my wife feels hand washing cannot be abandoned at this time, especially with it being winter and the risk of getting sick increased. I get that Finn is asserting his independence, taking some control in his life, and with us modeling the importance of hand-washing, he'll most likely return to some semblance of decent hygiene in the future. I feel that enforcing hand-washing is not helping him, but it is meeting the goals of having clean hands and reducing the possible spread of gut bugs. This is my wife's primary concern.
>
>Help? I know it's a simple thing, but it's causing friction in our household. Practical solutions or philosophical solutions that might help my wife accept a higher level of risk are both welcome.
>
>Thanks so much
>
>Sacha
>
>__________________________________
>Sacha (40), mommy to Finn (4) & Zivia (0) and wife to Megan (38)
>
>Livin' la vida loca in Georgetown, Seattle
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Tova
This is how our house is too! Germs are not really the enemy anyway. Ever since we boosted our immune systems with vitamin D we get sick 95% less.
tookute2eat
Yup, I agree. I need to get my immune system back up and quit taking it for granted cause now I have this horrible virus. I'll have some cheese with that, lol. I used to get sick once every 2 yrs. There are those who are sick all the time. Vibes, diet, environmental factors, genetics, frame of mind etc. all play a part. But the mind is the greatest defense. I let my defences get low on a couple of fronts, so here I am learning another lesson and grateful for it;) I had a spiritual experience and a wonderful creative streak all while being very ill. I made resolutions that I wouldn't have made otherwise. A dreams/goals/wishlist of sorts. Being sick has really put things into perspective. I couldn't even pick up the phone, now I've all but lost my voice, which my hubby loves, lol. I was a little overwhelmed by the "irons" I had in all these fires but when you are sick, it gives you a "guilt-free" pass to bow out! Love it! Maybe I'll milk this for a while;)
Connie
Connie
--- In [email protected], Tova <ml_ja@...> wrote:
>
> This is how our house is too! Germs are not really the enemy anyway. Ever since we boosted our immune systems with vitamin D we get sick 95% less.
>
Sacha Davis
Thanks everyone. I'm actually *mostly* okay with backing off hand washing altogether because I don't think what's happening is good, the kid has an intact immune system (he's still bfing which helps), and we're risking long-term relationship damage over this one. My wife's issue isn't colds as much as enteric bugs because Finn tends toward vomiting, and that is truly disruptive to our family life. I get that, but still, I'm not hugely convinced we're at *significant* risk within our own home. And yes, being an RN, I have infectious diseases in my face all of the time, I'm very sensitive to them, so it's good to be reminded that I don't want my kids to become germ-o-phobes.
Bottom line is that what we're doing is not working and it's hurting the relationship between Finn and my wife, and I'm not doing a good job of being in the middle for either party. So tonight I suggested that we back off hand washing entirely for two weeks, then we go to Target and let Finn pick out a hand-soap that HE likes, then make it available to him for his use. Then we will give him the option but it will not be mandatory or pushed. This approach has been reluctantly accepted by the other member of the household's parenting committee. In the meantime we can wash our own hands and manage our own hand hygiene as much as we want - woohooo, you can tell things get wild around here. The boy is officially off the hook.
I very much appreciate the suggestions and approaches - very helpful in finding a solution and keeping me focused on what's important.
Sacha
__________________________________
Sacha (40), mommy to Finn (4) & Zivia (0) and wife to Megan (38)
Livin' la vida loca in Georgetown, Seattle
Bottom line is that what we're doing is not working and it's hurting the relationship between Finn and my wife, and I'm not doing a good job of being in the middle for either party. So tonight I suggested that we back off hand washing entirely for two weeks, then we go to Target and let Finn pick out a hand-soap that HE likes, then make it available to him for his use. Then we will give him the option but it will not be mandatory or pushed. This approach has been reluctantly accepted by the other member of the household's parenting committee. In the meantime we can wash our own hands and manage our own hand hygiene as much as we want - woohooo, you can tell things get wild around here. The boy is officially off the hook.
I very much appreciate the suggestions and approaches - very helpful in finding a solution and keeping me focused on what's important.
Sacha
__________________________________
Sacha (40), mommy to Finn (4) & Zivia (0) and wife to Megan (38)
Livin' la vida loca in Georgetown, Seattle
On Oct 21, 2011, at 3:54 PM, tookute2eat wrote:
> Yup, I agree. I need to get my immune system back up and quit taking it for granted cause now I have this horrible virus. I'll have some cheese with that, lol. I used to get sick once every 2 yrs. There are those who are sick all the time. Vibes, diet, environmental factors, genetics, frame of mind etc. all play a part. But the mind is the greatest defense. I let my defences get low on a couple of fronts, so here I am learning another lesson and grateful for it;) I had a spiritual experience and a wonderful creative streak all while being very ill. I made resolutions that I wouldn't have made otherwise. A dreams/goals/wishlist of sorts. Being sick has really put things into perspective. I couldn't even pick up the phone, now I've all but lost my voice, which my hubby loves, lol. I was a little overwhelmed by the "irons" I had in all these fires but when you are sick, it gives you a "guilt-free" pass to bow out! Love it! Maybe I'll milk this for a while;)
> Connie
>
> --- In [email protected], Tova <ml_ja@...> wrote:
> >
> > This is how our� house is too! Germs are not really the enemy anyway. Ever since we boosted our immune systems with vitamin D we get sick 95% less.
> >
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Julie
I know it's just another anecdote, but we're not big hand washers around here and rarely get sick. My kids are 2, 4, and 6. I do it when I remember. I remind my boys when I think of it. They sometimes do it on their own but mostly forget too. If I'm in there wiping someone's butt, we always both wash our hands but that's as consistent as it gets. I really don't think you're going to get seriously ill (beyond maybe a cold) by not washing hands. However, if there is already sickness (flu type, stomach virus, etc), it's probably prudent to be more conscientious.
Anyways, I'd focus on other things to keep people healthy. When my kids eat, they use a wet towel rather than a napkin because it helps with cleaning up their faces and hands if they've gotten food on them and their hands have been in their mouths while eating. I periodically put powdered probiotics in my kids' milk, especially during cold and flu season. I encourage them to sneeze or cough into the crook of their elbows rather than their hands. I wash off common surfaces like doorknobs and remote controls during cold and flu season too. We get flu shots, but I know some people aren't into that (my husband and I got ours today - I can't imagine having the flu while taking care of 3 kids).
This is an error where I prefer to manipulate the external circumstances rather than getting into a power struggle or being a nag. I, of course, inform them that some people think it's very important to wash their hands, especially after using the bathroom and I tell them why. I tell them that part of being a good guest or being a person other people are comfortable around can sometimes include making sure they are keeping up with their hygiene. I tell them some people are more bothered by dirt and germs than others. I don't want to send them out in the world having no clue where their actions (or inactions) put them on the spectrum of human behavior,
particularly in areas where we are more relaxed.
I do know that most parents bug their kids about these types of things and it does nothing to help their relationship with their kids, nor does it give the kids the opportunity to make their own decisions about their own bodies. If a kid is doing (or not doing) something that will incontrovertibly harm someone else, it's a different issue. But slightly increasing the odds of sickness (that could probably be mitigated by controlling external factors with some effort on the parent's part, like I mentioned above) is not reason enough for me to override a kid's autonomy.
Julie M
James, Tyler and Audrey - 6, 4 and 2
Anyways, I'd focus on other things to keep people healthy. When my kids eat, they use a wet towel rather than a napkin because it helps with cleaning up their faces and hands if they've gotten food on them and their hands have been in their mouths while eating. I periodically put powdered probiotics in my kids' milk, especially during cold and flu season. I encourage them to sneeze or cough into the crook of their elbows rather than their hands. I wash off common surfaces like doorknobs and remote controls during cold and flu season too. We get flu shots, but I know some people aren't into that (my husband and I got ours today - I can't imagine having the flu while taking care of 3 kids).
This is an error where I prefer to manipulate the external circumstances rather than getting into a power struggle or being a nag. I, of course, inform them that some people think it's very important to wash their hands, especially after using the bathroom and I tell them why. I tell them that part of being a good guest or being a person other people are comfortable around can sometimes include making sure they are keeping up with their hygiene. I tell them some people are more bothered by dirt and germs than others. I don't want to send them out in the world having no clue where their actions (or inactions) put them on the spectrum of human behavior,
particularly in areas where we are more relaxed.
I do know that most parents bug their kids about these types of things and it does nothing to help their relationship with their kids, nor does it give the kids the opportunity to make their own decisions about their own bodies. If a kid is doing (or not doing) something that will incontrovertibly harm someone else, it's a different issue. But slightly increasing the odds of sickness (that could probably be mitigated by controlling external factors with some effort on the parent's part, like I mentioned above) is not reason enough for me to override a kid's autonomy.
Julie M
James, Tyler and Audrey - 6, 4 and 2
--- In [email protected], Sacha Davis <sacha@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks everyone. I'm actually *mostly* okay with backing off hand washing altogether because I don't think what's happening is good, the kid has an intact immune system (he's still bfing which helps), and we're risking long-term relationship damage over this one. My wife's issue isn't colds as much as enteric bugs because Finn tends toward vomiting, and that is truly disruptive to our family life. I get that, but still, I'm not hugely convinced we're at *significant* risk within our own home. And yes, being an RN, I have infectious diseases in my face all of the time, I'm very sensitive to them, so it's good to be reminded that I don't want my kids to become germ-o-phobes.
>
> Bottom line is that what we're doing is not working and it's hurting the relationship between Finn and my wife, and I'm not doing a good job of being in the middle for either party. So tonight I suggested that we back off hand washing entirely for two weeks, then we go to Target and let Finn pick out a hand-soap that HE likes, then make it available to him for his use. Then we will give him the option but it will not be mandatory or pushed. This approach has been reluctantly accepted by the other member of the household's parenting committee. In the meantime we can wash our own hands and manage our own hand hygiene as much as we want - woohooo, you can tell things get wild around here. The boy is officially off the hook.
>
> I very much appreciate the suggestions and approaches - very helpful in finding a solution and keeping me focused on what's important.
>
> Sacha
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Sacha (40), mommy to Finn (4) & Zivia (0) and wife to Megan (38)
>
> Livin' la vida loca in Georgetown, Seattle
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 21, 2011, at 3:54 PM, tookute2eat wrote:
>
> > Yup, I agree. I need to get my immune system back up and quit taking it for granted cause now I have this horrible virus. I'll have some cheese with that, lol. I used to get sick once every 2 yrs. There are those who are sick all the time. Vibes, diet, environmental factors, genetics, frame of mind etc. all play a part. But the mind is the greatest defense. I let my defences get low on a couple of fronts, so here I am learning another lesson and grateful for it;) I had a spiritual experience and a wonderful creative streak all while being very ill. I made resolutions that I wouldn't have made otherwise. A dreams/goals/wishlist of sorts. Being sick has really put things into perspective. I couldn't even pick up the phone, now I've all but lost my voice, which my hubby loves, lol. I was a little overwhelmed by the "irons" I had in all these fires but when you are sick, it gives you a "guilt-free" pass to bow out! Love it! Maybe I'll milk this for a while;)
> > Connie
> >
> > --- In [email protected], Tova <ml_ja@> wrote:
> > >
> > > This is how our house is too! Germs are not really the enemy anyway. Ever since we boosted our immune systems with vitamin D we get sick 95% less.
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
mateja novak
__,_._,__Hello,
i've been reading on this unschooling list for 10 mo and i love the respectful and loving relationship with children that is coming across as the guiding principle.
My ds is only 1yo, so i can't say i'm unschooling since he's too young to go to school anyway. However, the unschooling values and principles resonate with me and i'm applying them in my life as best as i can.
I've come across an issue where i would love to get some ideas on how to best handle it in a peaceful way that promotes trust. I'd like to be able to communicate to ds that i have his interests at heart while keeping him safe because the drivers can't see him. But i'd love to do it without scaring him or simply overriding his wishes.
Ds has been walking for a month. He loves to walk outside following his interests. I let him, don't rush him, play chase or hide and seek along the way. Since we live in a city, we can't avoid walking on pavements. i choose side streets that are calmer but still, a car passes sometimes. Ds seems fascinated by cars: he goes to the parked ones to touch them or to crawl under them (i try to redirect him cos of the alarm most cars have, and i'm afraid the alarm would get off or that he will get stuck under a car) and then he also wanders on the road walking there and protesting if i try to take his hand to guide him off the road, screaming if i pick him up to carry him off the road. Once we are on the pavement, i put him down but he returns to the road (the same happens if i carry him for longer, say 100 m, which isn't easy with a wriggly boy).
As some backgriound info: this year I've been carrying him in a sling; we don't have a pram because i haven't seen the need for it. Now, that he's walking i'm happy to foster his autonomy while staying available to carry him if and when he wants it.
I'm looking forward to getting some inspiration from you.
Kind regards,
Mateja_t
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
i've been reading on this unschooling list for 10 mo and i love the respectful and loving relationship with children that is coming across as the guiding principle.
My ds is only 1yo, so i can't say i'm unschooling since he's too young to go to school anyway. However, the unschooling values and principles resonate with me and i'm applying them in my life as best as i can.
I've come across an issue where i would love to get some ideas on how to best handle it in a peaceful way that promotes trust. I'd like to be able to communicate to ds that i have his interests at heart while keeping him safe because the drivers can't see him. But i'd love to do it without scaring him or simply overriding his wishes.
Ds has been walking for a month. He loves to walk outside following his interests. I let him, don't rush him, play chase or hide and seek along the way. Since we live in a city, we can't avoid walking on pavements. i choose side streets that are calmer but still, a car passes sometimes. Ds seems fascinated by cars: he goes to the parked ones to touch them or to crawl under them (i try to redirect him cos of the alarm most cars have, and i'm afraid the alarm would get off or that he will get stuck under a car) and then he also wanders on the road walking there and protesting if i try to take his hand to guide him off the road, screaming if i pick him up to carry him off the road. Once we are on the pavement, i put him down but he returns to the road (the same happens if i carry him for longer, say 100 m, which isn't easy with a wriggly boy).
As some backgriound info: this year I've been carrying him in a sling; we don't have a pram because i haven't seen the need for it. Now, that he's walking i'm happy to foster his autonomy while staying available to carry him if and when he wants it.
I'm looking forward to getting some inspiration from you.
Kind regards,
Mateja_t
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
mateja novak <matejanovak@...> wrote:
It's possible for kids to want things they aren't ready to do - like ride a bike, read, or play in the road. With little kids, explaining won't help, they can't Possibly see any perspective but their own, so its up to you to make them safe as kindly as you can, minimizing distress and "nos".
As much as you can, find places where he can walk and run around, but at the same time look for ways to get him there that Don't involve walking. If he'll ride in a stroller or pram, that's a good idea - with toys or games or a movie on a laptop to keep him happy along the way. Bike/jogging strollers are especially nice since they're big and enclosed - he can cuddle up and nap until you get where you're going if he likes. If there's any way to add a car to your life, now's a good time! Look at car-sharing and getting rides from friends as possible options in that regard.
Alternately - or maybe in addition - go out less. Keep his perambulations to the corridors and stairs of your building or complex. He needs to Move and he needs to do that in safety and he can't provide his own safety right now. He depends on you for that.
It could help to find a friend with a car so he can crawl over and through one to his heart's content. Or look for children's parks and museums with "cars" for him to play in and on. At home, be sure to provide him with lots of things to climb on and over - rearrange furniture and drape lots of cloths, build pillow forts and tunnels and have treasure hunts that include crawling under and through things.
On the street, if you can't avoid walking, distract him as much as you possibly can. Be More interesting and engaging than the environment. Hold hands and run with him. Maybe toss a small object ahead and race to it with him. Don't just carry him, give him piggy-back rides while making animal sounds, silly-walk with him, go in costume and play-act with him. Don't walk anywhere without making it a big, engaging production which will keep him more interested in the fun he's having than the rest of the world.
And still expect him to periodically try to do things which aren't the least bit safe, to have to carry him screaming out of the road some of the time. Maybe a lot of the time for a couple years. Say "I'm sorry." Not "I'm sorry, but..." just "I'm sorry." Maybe "I'm sorry, I can't find a better way." It's hard when you can't see a way around a real life limit yet, but at least you can acknowledge that part and commiserate with him.
---Meredith
>> I've come across an issue where i would love to get some ideas on how to best handle it in a peaceful way that promotes trust. I'd like to be able to communicate to ds that i have his interests at heart while keeping him safe because the drivers can't see him. But i'd love to do it without scaring him or simply overriding his wishes.*****************
It's possible for kids to want things they aren't ready to do - like ride a bike, read, or play in the road. With little kids, explaining won't help, they can't Possibly see any perspective but their own, so its up to you to make them safe as kindly as you can, minimizing distress and "nos".
As much as you can, find places where he can walk and run around, but at the same time look for ways to get him there that Don't involve walking. If he'll ride in a stroller or pram, that's a good idea - with toys or games or a movie on a laptop to keep him happy along the way. Bike/jogging strollers are especially nice since they're big and enclosed - he can cuddle up and nap until you get where you're going if he likes. If there's any way to add a car to your life, now's a good time! Look at car-sharing and getting rides from friends as possible options in that regard.
Alternately - or maybe in addition - go out less. Keep his perambulations to the corridors and stairs of your building or complex. He needs to Move and he needs to do that in safety and he can't provide his own safety right now. He depends on you for that.
>>Ds seems fascinated by cars: he goes to the parked ones to touch them or to crawl under them**************
It could help to find a friend with a car so he can crawl over and through one to his heart's content. Or look for children's parks and museums with "cars" for him to play in and on. At home, be sure to provide him with lots of things to climb on and over - rearrange furniture and drape lots of cloths, build pillow forts and tunnels and have treasure hunts that include crawling under and through things.
On the street, if you can't avoid walking, distract him as much as you possibly can. Be More interesting and engaging than the environment. Hold hands and run with him. Maybe toss a small object ahead and race to it with him. Don't just carry him, give him piggy-back rides while making animal sounds, silly-walk with him, go in costume and play-act with him. Don't walk anywhere without making it a big, engaging production which will keep him more interested in the fun he's having than the rest of the world.
And still expect him to periodically try to do things which aren't the least bit safe, to have to carry him screaming out of the road some of the time. Maybe a lot of the time for a couple years. Say "I'm sorry." Not "I'm sorry, but..." just "I'm sorry." Maybe "I'm sorry, I can't find a better way." It's hard when you can't see a way around a real life limit yet, but at least you can acknowledge that part and commiserate with him.
---Meredith
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
<<<<"Ds seems fascinated by cars: he goes to the parked ones to touch them or to crawl under them (i try to redirect him cos of the alarm most cars
have, and i'm afraid the alarm would get off or that he will get stuck
under a car)" >>>
I would be more afraid of him getting seriously burn by a car that is still hot. No I would not let him just crawl under a car out. FInd a car he can go in and play in. Find a safe place he can explore a car.
<<<<"and then he also wanders on the road walking there and
protesting if i try to take his hand to guide him off the road,
screaming if i pick him up to carry him off the road. Once we are on the pavement, i put him down but he returns to the road (the same happens
if i carry him for longer, say 100 m, which isn't easy with a wriggly
boy).">>>>>>
Find a road he can play. Where there is no traffic, a cul de sac you can be right there with him. I would not let my one year old just walk on the street to play if there is any kind of traffic.
<<<<"As some backgriound info: this year I've been carrying him in a sling;
we don't have a pram because i haven't seen the need for it. Now, that
he's walking i'm happy to foster his autonomy while staying available to carry him if and when he wants it.">>>>>>
Maybe he would love a stroller/ pram because it rides in wheels like a car. They can be awesome for older kids like him. Even my son that loved the sling was ready for the stroller when he was a year and a half or two. One year old children are not going to have autonomy.
They still need mom and dad for pretty much everything. Find places he can explore safely. You can do many things for a young child to provide opportunity so they can do things themselves. Have easily accessible food and drinks they can reach when they want, step stoos for sinks so they can wash their hands, things like that. But playing under strange cars and on a road with traffic are beyond their capability.
Alex Polikowsky
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have, and i'm afraid the alarm would get off or that he will get stuck
under a car)" >>>
I would be more afraid of him getting seriously burn by a car that is still hot. No I would not let him just crawl under a car out. FInd a car he can go in and play in. Find a safe place he can explore a car.
<<<<"and then he also wanders on the road walking there and
protesting if i try to take his hand to guide him off the road,
screaming if i pick him up to carry him off the road. Once we are on the pavement, i put him down but he returns to the road (the same happens
if i carry him for longer, say 100 m, which isn't easy with a wriggly
boy).">>>>>>
Find a road he can play. Where there is no traffic, a cul de sac you can be right there with him. I would not let my one year old just walk on the street to play if there is any kind of traffic.
<<<<"As some backgriound info: this year I've been carrying him in a sling;
we don't have a pram because i haven't seen the need for it. Now, that
he's walking i'm happy to foster his autonomy while staying available to carry him if and when he wants it.">>>>>>
Maybe he would love a stroller/ pram because it rides in wheels like a car. They can be awesome for older kids like him. Even my son that loved the sling was ready for the stroller when he was a year and a half or two. One year old children are not going to have autonomy.
They still need mom and dad for pretty much everything. Find places he can explore safely. You can do many things for a young child to provide opportunity so they can do things themselves. Have easily accessible food and drinks they can reach when they want, step stoos for sinks so they can wash their hands, things like that. But playing under strange cars and on a road with traffic are beyond their capability.
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...> wrote:
Oooooooh - maybe you can find something that actually looks like a car - something with a handle like a stroller or even a big, foot-powered roving toy, too big to slip between cars and down off a curb the way a quick moving toddler can. I've seen them in second-hand shops now and then - if you're a regular at a thrift shop, ask if you can leave your name and number, or look on Craigslist for something you can use.
---Meredith
>> Maybe he would love a stroller/ pram because it rides in wheels like a car.***************
Oooooooh - maybe you can find something that actually looks like a car - something with a handle like a stroller or even a big, foot-powered roving toy, too big to slip between cars and down off a curb the way a quick moving toddler can. I've seen them in second-hand shops now and then - if you're a regular at a thrift shop, ask if you can leave your name and number, or look on Craigslist for something you can use.
---Meredith
mateja novak
wow, what a wealth of ideas, thank you so much. i feel creative again. this morning i already created steps for him in the kitchen, so that he was free to climb up and see what i was up to. both of us had lots of fun and later, outside, he was happy to rest in the sling.
kind regards,
Mateja
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kind regards,
Mateja
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]