Reading ideas
zachsmom31
Hi. My son and I are going on a fun adventure in a few weeks -- we'll be driving about 3000 miles in 11 days (just the two of us).
Here's my question: he's just now beginning to be interested in reading (he's 9). What are some fun games that we could play in the car while we're driving that would support his desire to learn to read? I'm coming up blank except for the game where you have to spot the letters in the alphabet in order...
BTW, he's open to and asking for help from me in his process.
Thanks in advance,
Melinda
Here's my question: he's just now beginning to be interested in reading (he's 9). What are some fun games that we could play in the car while we're driving that would support his desire to learn to read? I'm coming up blank except for the game where you have to spot the letters in the alphabet in order...
BTW, he's open to and asking for help from me in his process.
Thanks in advance,
Melinda
Jo
Hi there, some car games could be: making a word using the letters from the car registration of the car in front (you can add other letters too to make the word). You can make this a little trickier by saying you have to use them in the order they appear, or easier in just any order.
A game we call First One To See: choose a roadsign/popular branding/familiar roadside word and the first one to see it picks the next word. (sometimes more fun if you run a few words at the same time)
Reading the map? Road signs, place of interest signs, snack names etc when you stop for breaks? Not really a game butt hey are opportunities to read.
If he's ok looking down a little while you're driving (ie. not car sick) you could spot words then he could try to put them together in a homemade crossword. If he isn't into writing, you could get a magnetic scrabble set and he could use that.
You could play your spot the alphabet game but with whole words beginning with a, then b etc. And try to read the word as you spot it.
If I think of more I'll post.
Kind regards and enjoy your trip,
Jo
A game we call First One To See: choose a roadsign/popular branding/familiar roadside word and the first one to see it picks the next word. (sometimes more fun if you run a few words at the same time)
Reading the map? Road signs, place of interest signs, snack names etc when you stop for breaks? Not really a game butt hey are opportunities to read.
If he's ok looking down a little while you're driving (ie. not car sick) you could spot words then he could try to put them together in a homemade crossword. If he isn't into writing, you could get a magnetic scrabble set and he could use that.
You could play your spot the alphabet game but with whole words beginning with a, then b etc. And try to read the word as you spot it.
If I think of more I'll post.
Kind regards and enjoy your trip,
Jo
On 16 Oct 2011, at 05:36, "zachsmom31" <melgates@...> wrote:
> Hi. My son and I are going on a fun adventure in a few weeks -- we'll be driving about 3000 miles in 11 days (just the two of us).
>
> Here's my question: he's just now beginning to be interested in reading (he's 9). What are some fun games that we could play in the car while we're driving that would support his desire to learn to read? I'm coming up blank except for the game where you have to spot the letters in the alphabet in order...
>
> BTW, he's open to and asking for help from me in his process.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Melinda
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jen R
My kids have adored our version of the alphabet game, in which we pick a
theme (animals, foods, colors, names, countries... you get the idea!) and
take turns naming something with that letter. Of course, the older the
child, the more challenging they like it. My oldest was shocked that there
are NO countries that start with W!
My oldest daughter and I both are prone to car sickness, so we often play
games like that. I Spy is another. Making up stories, where one person says
a sentence and then the next person says the next. Those can get pretty
silly!
--
Jenny
Homeschooling in MA
Mom to DS (11), DD (9) DD (7)
theme (animals, foods, colors, names, countries... you get the idea!) and
take turns naming something with that letter. Of course, the older the
child, the more challenging they like it. My oldest was shocked that there
are NO countries that start with W!
My oldest daughter and I both are prone to car sickness, so we often play
games like that. I Spy is another. Making up stories, where one person says
a sentence and then the next person says the next. Those can get pretty
silly!
--
Jenny
Homeschooling in MA
Mom to DS (11), DD (9) DD (7)
On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 12:36 AM, zachsmom31 <melgates@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> Hi. My son and I are going on a fun adventure in a few weeks -- we'll be
> driving about 3000 miles in 11 days (just the two of us).
>
> Here's my question: he's just now beginning to be interested in reading
> (he's 9). What are some fun games that we could play in the car while we're
> driving that would support his desire to learn to read? I'm coming up blank
> except for the game where you have to spot the letters in the alphabet in
> order...
>
> BTW, he's open to and asking for help from me in his process.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Melinda
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Meredith
"zachsmom31" <melgates@...> wrote:
Step away from the second part of that question. Look for ways to pass the time - don't get bogged down thinking about reading, his desire to read might or might not pass regardless of what you do, but he'll still read eventually. He might even be interested-but-not ready - that happens with kids. Some kids don't have all the necessary wiring to read until puberty.
So... things to do in the car. We like electronic things for our longish drives. If he likes stories, audio books are good. Movies on a dvd player are just as good, and portable games - pc games and hand-held games. The most important thing with all of those is to get a car-charger! It's agonizing to only have two hours of play-time on a long trip.
Morgan really enjoys kits on long drives - when she was younger they had to be pretty simple, but now she has the ability to keep track of a fair sized Lego kit while driving (helps that she can reach the floor, too, if she drops things). She has also enjoyed paper folding kits and those wood kits where you assemble a bug or airplane or peacock without glue - just slot the pieces together.
---Meredith
>> Here's my question: he's just now beginning to be interested in reading (he's 9). What are some fun games that we could play in the car while we're driving that would support his desire to learn to read?****************
Step away from the second part of that question. Look for ways to pass the time - don't get bogged down thinking about reading, his desire to read might or might not pass regardless of what you do, but he'll still read eventually. He might even be interested-but-not ready - that happens with kids. Some kids don't have all the necessary wiring to read until puberty.
So... things to do in the car. We like electronic things for our longish drives. If he likes stories, audio books are good. Movies on a dvd player are just as good, and portable games - pc games and hand-held games. The most important thing with all of those is to get a car-charger! It's agonizing to only have two hours of play-time on a long trip.
Morgan really enjoys kits on long drives - when she was younger they had to be pretty simple, but now she has the ability to keep track of a fair sized Lego kit while driving (helps that she can reach the floor, too, if she drops things). She has also enjoyed paper folding kits and those wood kits where you assemble a bug or airplane or peacock without glue - just slot the pieces together.
---Meredith
bnforgiven
when my son could read, only a little bit, he still loved super easy word finds. This is something you can do in the car - that's where he likes them anyway. And he sometimes spells the word and asks me what it is. He can read marvelously now, so we use harder ones and he learns new words and vocabulary all the time. We get cheap ones at the Dollar Store. And we all enjoy the alphabet game while driving by picking letters from signs or picking an object that starts with that letter, such as grass.
Hope you enjoy your trip!
Hope you enjoy your trip!
--- In [email protected], Jo <jokirby2004@...> wrote:
>
> Hi there, some car games could be: making a word using the letters from the car registration of the car in front (you can add other letters too to make the word). You can make this a little trickier by saying you have to use them in the order they appear, or easier in just any order.
>
> A game we call First One To See: choose a roadsign/popular branding/familiar roadside word and the first one to see it picks the next word. (sometimes more fun if you run a few words at the same time)
>
> Reading the map? Road signs, place of interest signs, snack names etc when you stop for breaks? Not really a game butt hey are opportunities to read.
>
> If he's ok looking down a little while you're driving (ie. not car sick) you could spot words then he could try to put them together in a homemade crossword. If he isn't into writing, you could get a magnetic scrabble set and he could use that.
>
> You could play your spot the alphabet game but with whole words beginning with a, then b etc. And try to read the word as you spot it.
>
> If I think of more I'll post.
>
> Kind regards and enjoy your trip,
> Jo
>
>
>
>
>
> On 16 Oct 2011, at 05:36, "zachsmom31" <melgates@...> wrote:
>
> > Hi. My son and I are going on a fun adventure in a few weeks -- we'll be driving about 3000 miles in 11 days (just the two of us).
> >
> > Here's my question: he's just now beginning to be interested in reading (he's 9). What are some fun games that we could play in the car while we're driving that would support his desire to learn to read? I'm coming up blank except for the game where you have to spot the letters in the alphabet in order...
> >
> > BTW, he's open to and asking for help from me in his process.
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Melinda
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Joyce Fetteroll
There's also Games for Reading by Peggy Kaye. I'm not sure how car
friendly they are. It's been a long time since I looked at the book.
Have you mentioned to him that reading is like walking or riding a
bike? That until his body is ready to do it, he really can't. But once
his body's ready it will make more sense and be easier.
Joyce
friendly they are. It's been a long time since I looked at the book.
Have you mentioned to him that reading is like walking or riding a
bike? That until his body is ready to do it, he really can't. But once
his body's ready it will make more sense and be easier.
Joyce
Claire Darbaud
2011/10/17 Joyce Fetteroll
-- Have you mentioned to him that reading is like walking or riding a bike?
That until his body is ready to do it, he really can't. --
But that's not true though. There was another post a couple of days ago
that said something like "until the child is ready to read nobody can do
anything about it" but I can't find it.
From what I read everywhere, learning to read the natural way can happen
anytime between 3 à 15...
And yet most school children I have met learn to read between 3 à 7 or 8.
Doman and mothers following the doman method have taught young babies to
read. So it's not true that nothing can be done until children come to
reading naturally.
I totally understand that the side effects of being taught to read before
you developmentally come to learning it naturally can be terribly
disempowering, damaging for the adult/child relationship and damaging for
the child's self esteem, and in some cases (though not all) severely
damaging to the child's very ability to learn to read at all... to the
point some of these children can reach adulthood without knowing how to read
at all.
But it bugs me to read that children simply can not read until it comes to
them naturally, because it brings confusion when I can see around me that
it's simply not true.
Claire
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-- Have you mentioned to him that reading is like walking or riding a bike?
That until his body is ready to do it, he really can't. --
But that's not true though. There was another post a couple of days ago
that said something like "until the child is ready to read nobody can do
anything about it" but I can't find it.
From what I read everywhere, learning to read the natural way can happen
anytime between 3 à 15...
And yet most school children I have met learn to read between 3 à 7 or 8.
Doman and mothers following the doman method have taught young babies to
read. So it's not true that nothing can be done until children come to
reading naturally.
I totally understand that the side effects of being taught to read before
you developmentally come to learning it naturally can be terribly
disempowering, damaging for the adult/child relationship and damaging for
the child's self esteem, and in some cases (though not all) severely
damaging to the child's very ability to learn to read at all... to the
point some of these children can reach adulthood without knowing how to read
at all.
But it bugs me to read that children simply can not read until it comes to
them naturally, because it brings confusion when I can see around me that
it's simply not true.
Claire
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
I looked for trails of Glenn Doman's reading system and I can't find anything. I
do know that the Doman Method has had no systematic studies done that found any
benefit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Institutes_for_the_Achievement_of_Human_Potential.
Reading reviews of the books there are a fair number of people saying that
their children weren't reading as much as memorising what a word looked like.
Simon did that when I had him find Big Ears in the text of Noddy books. He never
really liked the Noddy books. If you have better evidence that they are able to
teach children to read I'd love to see it.
I truly don't think that Simon would have read earlier than 12 if he'd been in
school. And I know that he would have felt miserable about that lack, even
though the school would have worked to make him look like he was achieving on
their pre-reading measures.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: Claire Darbaud <cdarbaud@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, 18 October, 2011 13:04:41
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Reading ideas
2011/10/17 Joyce Fetteroll
-- Have you mentioned to him that reading is like walking or riding a bike?
That until his body is ready to do it, he really can't. --
But that's not true though. There was another post a couple of days ago
that said something like "until the child is ready to read nobody can do
anything about it" but I can't find it.
From what I read everywhere, learning to read the natural way can happen
anytime between 3 à 15...
And yet most school children I have met learn to read between 3 à 7 or 8.
Doman and mothers following the doman method have taught young babies to
read. So it's not true that nothing can be done until children come to
reading naturally.
I totally understand that the side effects of being taught to read before
you developmentally come to learning it naturally can be terribly
disempowering, damaging for the adult/child relationship and damaging for
the child's self esteem, and in some cases (though not all) severely
damaging to the child's very ability to learn to read at all... to the
point some of these children can reach adulthood without knowing how to read
at all.
But it bugs me to read that children simply can not read until it comes to
them naturally, because it brings confusion when I can see around me that
it's simply not true.
Claire
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
do know that the Doman Method has had no systematic studies done that found any
benefit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Institutes_for_the_Achievement_of_Human_Potential.
Reading reviews of the books there are a fair number of people saying that
their children weren't reading as much as memorising what a word looked like.
Simon did that when I had him find Big Ears in the text of Noddy books. He never
really liked the Noddy books. If you have better evidence that they are able to
teach children to read I'd love to see it.
I truly don't think that Simon would have read earlier than 12 if he'd been in
school. And I know that he would have felt miserable about that lack, even
though the school would have worked to make him look like he was achieving on
their pre-reading measures.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: Claire Darbaud <cdarbaud@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, 18 October, 2011 13:04:41
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Reading ideas
2011/10/17 Joyce Fetteroll
-- Have you mentioned to him that reading is like walking or riding a bike?
That until his body is ready to do it, he really can't. --
But that's not true though. There was another post a couple of days ago
that said something like "until the child is ready to read nobody can do
anything about it" but I can't find it.
From what I read everywhere, learning to read the natural way can happen
anytime between 3 à 15...
And yet most school children I have met learn to read between 3 à 7 or 8.
Doman and mothers following the doman method have taught young babies to
read. So it's not true that nothing can be done until children come to
reading naturally.
I totally understand that the side effects of being taught to read before
you developmentally come to learning it naturally can be terribly
disempowering, damaging for the adult/child relationship and damaging for
the child's self esteem, and in some cases (though not all) severely
damaging to the child's very ability to learn to read at all... to the
point some of these children can reach adulthood without knowing how to read
at all.
But it bugs me to read that children simply can not read until it comes to
them naturally, because it brings confusion when I can see around me that
it's simply not true.
Claire
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
I looked for trials of Glenn Doman's reading system not trails. Just for
clarity.
________________________________
From: Schuyler <s.waynforth@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, 18 October, 2011 13:30:35
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Reading ideas
I looked for trails of Glenn Doman's reading system and I can't find anything. I
do know that the Doman Method has had no systematic studies done that found any
benefit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Institutes_for_the_Achievement_of_Human_Potential.
Reading reviews of the books there are a fair number of people saying that
their children weren't reading as much as memorising what a word looked like.
Simon did that when I had him find Big Ears in the text of Noddy books. He never
really liked the Noddy books. If you have better evidence that they are able to
teach children to read I'd love to see it.
I truly don't think that Simon would have read earlier than 12 if he'd been in
school. And I know that he would have felt miserable about that lack, even
though the school would have worked to make him look like he was achieving on
their pre-reading measures.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: Claire Darbaud <cdarbaud@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, 18 October, 2011 13:04:41
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Reading ideas
2011/10/17 Joyce Fetteroll
-- Have you mentioned to him that reading is like walking or riding a bike?
That until his body is ready to do it, he really can't. --
But that's not true though. There was another post a couple of days ago
that said something like "until the child is ready to read nobody can do
anything about it" but I can't find it.
From what I read everywhere, learning to read the natural way can happen
anytime between 3 à 15...
And yet most school children I have met learn to read between 3 à 7 or 8.
Doman and mothers following the doman method have taught young babies to
read. So it's not true that nothing can be done until children come to
reading naturally.
I totally understand that the side effects of being taught to read before
you developmentally come to learning it naturally can be terribly
disempowering, damaging for the adult/child relationship and damaging for
the child's self esteem, and in some cases (though not all) severely
damaging to the child's very ability to learn to read at all... to the
point some of these children can reach adulthood without knowing how to read
at all.
But it bugs me to read that children simply can not read until it comes to
them naturally, because it brings confusion when I can see around me that
it's simply not true.
Claire
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
clarity.
________________________________
From: Schuyler <s.waynforth@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, 18 October, 2011 13:30:35
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Reading ideas
I looked for trails of Glenn Doman's reading system and I can't find anything. I
do know that the Doman Method has had no systematic studies done that found any
benefit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Institutes_for_the_Achievement_of_Human_Potential.
Reading reviews of the books there are a fair number of people saying that
their children weren't reading as much as memorising what a word looked like.
Simon did that when I had him find Big Ears in the text of Noddy books. He never
really liked the Noddy books. If you have better evidence that they are able to
teach children to read I'd love to see it.
I truly don't think that Simon would have read earlier than 12 if he'd been in
school. And I know that he would have felt miserable about that lack, even
though the school would have worked to make him look like he was achieving on
their pre-reading measures.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: Claire Darbaud <cdarbaud@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, 18 October, 2011 13:04:41
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Reading ideas
2011/10/17 Joyce Fetteroll
-- Have you mentioned to him that reading is like walking or riding a bike?
That until his body is ready to do it, he really can't. --
But that's not true though. There was another post a couple of days ago
that said something like "until the child is ready to read nobody can do
anything about it" but I can't find it.
From what I read everywhere, learning to read the natural way can happen
anytime between 3 à 15...
And yet most school children I have met learn to read between 3 à 7 or 8.
Doman and mothers following the doman method have taught young babies to
read. So it's not true that nothing can be done until children come to
reading naturally.
I totally understand that the side effects of being taught to read before
you developmentally come to learning it naturally can be terribly
disempowering, damaging for the adult/child relationship and damaging for
the child's self esteem, and in some cases (though not all) severely
damaging to the child's very ability to learn to read at all... to the
point some of these children can reach adulthood without knowing how to read
at all.
But it bugs me to read that children simply can not read until it comes to
them naturally, because it brings confusion when I can see around me that
it's simply not true.
Claire
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
"And yet most school children I have met learn to read between 3 à 7 or 8.
Doman and mothers following the doman method have taught young babies to
read. So it's not true that nothing can be done until children come to
reading naturally."
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--
Nope. Many kids in school do not. At least here in the US
kids are supposed to know a certain list of words and every year they add to that.
It is not reading. Reading is when you can read pretty much everything.
The reading books are specially written for each grade so it only contains the words the child
is supposed to know. Even then many kids go to remedial classes or whatever they call in elementary.
Plus kids are not required to read unassisted until they have completed 3rd grade,
My son wrote words at 3 and could read . I say he learned at 6 and half but if it was by school standard he was reading at 3.
At 6 and a half he could read anything. He was reading fluently. He could also understand what he was reading.
Many kids read and have no comprehension of what they are reading. Do you ask yourself why?
Why do schools work on reading and comprehension ? Because kids can read some words but they do not really understand what they are reading in a sentence. MY son can. At nine he can read and write stories. Sure they are not perfect but compared to what I have
seen from kids they same age they are pretty good.
My brother did not learn to read in school until he was 11. I learned at 4. Same class , same teachers. WHo do you think was smarter and
grew up to become a song writer? Yep, my brother. I suck at words but he had a way with it.
Many kids in school manage to even graduate without learning to read or they read when they are older like my brother and the thing they have in common is that they feel they are less then.
My son and the neighbor kid ( they are best friends) are supposed to be in the same grade. While my son was reading fluently and loving it the neighbor kid did say he liked reading but that it was really really hard work. He read only those easy easy books while my son was reading online at an impressive speed..
Here are some statistics:
Forty-four percent of American 4th grade students cannot read fluently,
even when they read grade-level stories aloud under supportive testing
conditions.
National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP)
Pinnell et al., 1995
50 percent of American adults are unable to read an eighth grade level book.
Jonathan Kozol, Illiterate America
According to the 2003 National Assessment of Educational Progress
(NAEP), 37 percent of fourth graders and 26 percent of eighth graders
cannot read at the basic level; and on the 2002 NAEP 26 percent of
twelfth graders cannot read at the basic level. That is, when reading
grade appropriate text these students cannot extract the general meaning
or make obvious connections between the text and their own experiences
or make simple inferences from the text. In other words, they cannot
understand what they have read.
National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP)
and there is much more!
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Doman and mothers following the doman method have taught young babies to
read. So it's not true that nothing can be done until children come to
reading naturally."
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--
Nope. Many kids in school do not. At least here in the US
kids are supposed to know a certain list of words and every year they add to that.
It is not reading. Reading is when you can read pretty much everything.
The reading books are specially written for each grade so it only contains the words the child
is supposed to know. Even then many kids go to remedial classes or whatever they call in elementary.
Plus kids are not required to read unassisted until they have completed 3rd grade,
My son wrote words at 3 and could read . I say he learned at 6 and half but if it was by school standard he was reading at 3.
At 6 and a half he could read anything. He was reading fluently. He could also understand what he was reading.
Many kids read and have no comprehension of what they are reading. Do you ask yourself why?
Why do schools work on reading and comprehension ? Because kids can read some words but they do not really understand what they are reading in a sentence. MY son can. At nine he can read and write stories. Sure they are not perfect but compared to what I have
seen from kids they same age they are pretty good.
My brother did not learn to read in school until he was 11. I learned at 4. Same class , same teachers. WHo do you think was smarter and
grew up to become a song writer? Yep, my brother. I suck at words but he had a way with it.
Many kids in school manage to even graduate without learning to read or they read when they are older like my brother and the thing they have in common is that they feel they are less then.
My son and the neighbor kid ( they are best friends) are supposed to be in the same grade. While my son was reading fluently and loving it the neighbor kid did say he liked reading but that it was really really hard work. He read only those easy easy books while my son was reading online at an impressive speed..
Here are some statistics:
Forty-four percent of American 4th grade students cannot read fluently,
even when they read grade-level stories aloud under supportive testing
conditions.
National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP)
Pinnell et al., 1995
50 percent of American adults are unable to read an eighth grade level book.
Jonathan Kozol, Illiterate America
According to the 2003 National Assessment of Educational Progress
(NAEP), 37 percent of fourth graders and 26 percent of eighth graders
cannot read at the basic level; and on the 2002 NAEP 26 percent of
twelfth graders cannot read at the basic level. That is, when reading
grade appropriate text these students cannot extract the general meaning
or make obvious connections between the text and their own experiences
or make simple inferences from the text. In other words, they cannot
understand what they have read.
National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP)
and there is much more!
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Oct 18, 2011, at 8:04 AM, Claire Darbaud wrote:
child is developmentally ready to read -- eg, all the brain areas
involved in decoding are mature enough -- nothing can make them read."
So both statements say the same thing.
Reading in school doesn't mean being able to pick up a book or a note
and being able to read it.
she's not going to stick with it!
And are they really reading? Or has this method identified little kids
will really good shape recognition? I suspect they're connecting
squiggles with objects. That's not the same thing as decoding.
other.
Schools have been trying to get kids to learn to read for 100+ years.
It has been a massive effort. Don't think that there haven't been
researchers and educators working on the problem for decades and
decades! They've been trying hundreds of different methods. So why
aren't all kids reading? Why do the methods damage kids?
It's because 1) they're trying to do what isn't possible and 2)
parents and those responsible for making sure schools are "working"
demand that schools provide proof that learning is happening. So
educators have warped what "reading" means in order to be able to
demonstrate kids can do it better at the end of a school year than
they could at the beginning. They aren't being malicious! They really
think what they're testing has to do with reading. How can they know
different if they don't have a control group they're studying of kids
who aren't being instructed? Unschoolers exist but schools aren't
paying attention because they want kids reading independently by 3rd
grade and unschoolers aren't concerned with that.
Joyce
> -- Have you mentioned to him that reading is like walking or ridingI probably wrote the second. What I generally phrase it as "until a
> a bike?
> That until his body is ready to do it, he really can't. --
>
> But that's not true though. There was another post a couple of days
> ago
> that said something like "until the child is ready to read nobody
> can do
> anything about it" but I can't find it.
child is developmentally ready to read -- eg, all the brain areas
involved in decoding are mature enough -- nothing can make them read."
So both statements say the same thing.
> And yet most school children I have met learn to read between 3 à 7Schools define "reading" differently than the rest of the world.
> or 8.
Reading in school doesn't mean being able to pick up a book or a note
and being able to read it.
> Doman and mothers following the doman method have taught youngThat's a self selective experiment. If a mother can't get it to work,
> babies to
> read. So it's not true that nothing can be done until children come to
> reading naturally.
she's not going to stick with it!
And are they really reading? Or has this method identified little kids
will really good shape recognition? I suspect they're connecting
squiggles with objects. That's not the same thing as decoding.
> I totally understand that the side effects of being taught to readI think you're not seeing that your statements are contradicting each
> before
> you developmentally come to learning it naturally can be terribly
> disempowering ....
> But it bugs me to read that children simply can not read until it
> comes to
> them naturally
other.
Schools have been trying to get kids to learn to read for 100+ years.
It has been a massive effort. Don't think that there haven't been
researchers and educators working on the problem for decades and
decades! They've been trying hundreds of different methods. So why
aren't all kids reading? Why do the methods damage kids?
It's because 1) they're trying to do what isn't possible and 2)
parents and those responsible for making sure schools are "working"
demand that schools provide proof that learning is happening. So
educators have warped what "reading" means in order to be able to
demonstrate kids can do it better at the end of a school year than
they could at the beginning. They aren't being malicious! They really
think what they're testing has to do with reading. How can they know
different if they don't have a control group they're studying of kids
who aren't being instructed? Unschoolers exist but schools aren't
paying attention because they want kids reading independently by 3rd
grade and unschoolers aren't concerned with that.
Joyce
zachsmom31
I do like Peggy's book! They are not terribly car-friendly, but I'll take another look.
Thanks for the reminder about reading...
Melinda
Thanks for the reminder about reading...
Melinda
--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>
> There's also Games for Reading by Peggy Kaye. I'm not sure how car
> friendly they are. It's been a long time since I looked at the book.
>
> Have you mentioned to him that reading is like walking or riding a
> bike? That until his body is ready to do it, he really can't. But once
> his body's ready it will make more sense and be easier.
>
> Joyce
>
zachsmom31
This is all helpful information, Meredith. The point of wanting to have some games up my sleeve wasn't so that we can spend the whole 300 miles playing reading games :-) However, I do recognize in me a desire to "jump on" this current interest/willingness... It's been a challenge to step back from this, as I know others have experienced. So I need to continue to follow his lead and let go if he changes course... It does not come easy for him, so I know it still may not be his time. This has been a challenge for me, but I'm trying my best not to make my challenge his challenge, if you know what I mean.
I appreciate all the thoughts and ideas posted here so far!
Melinda
I appreciate all the thoughts and ideas posted here so far!
Melinda
--- In [email protected], "Meredith" <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
>
> "zachsmom31" <melgates@> wrote:
> >> Here's my question: he's just now beginning to be interested in reading (he's 9). What are some fun games that we could play in the car while we're driving that would support his desire to learn to read?
> ****************
>
> Step away from the second part of that question. Look for ways to pass the time - don't get bogged down thinking about reading, his desire to read might or might not pass regardless of what you do, but he'll still read eventually. He might even be interested-but-not ready - that happens with kids. Some kids don't have all the necessary wiring to read until puberty.
>
> So... things to do in the car. We like electronic things for our longish drives. If he likes stories, audio books are good. Movies on a dvd player are just as good, and portable games - pc games and hand-held games. The most important thing with all of those is to get a car-charger! It's agonizing to only have two hours of play-time on a long trip.
>
> Morgan really enjoys kits on long drives - when she was younger they had to be pretty simple, but now she has the ability to keep track of a fair sized Lego kit while driving (helps that she can reach the floor, too, if she drops things). She has also enjoyed paper folding kits and those wood kits where you assemble a bug or airplane or peacock without glue - just slot the pieces together.
>
> ---Meredith
>
Meredith
Claire Darbaud <cdarbaud@...> wrote:
Part of the confusion is that what kids learn to do in school isn't "reading" in the way adults read - it's not reading "fluently" with good comprehension, its going through the motions of reading. Schools expect kids' "comprehension" to lag a year or two behind their "reading" in fact. And parents have gotten used to that kind of "reading" - little kids making appropriate mouth noises with little understanding.
When unschoolers - and many home schoolers - talk about reading they mean "adult" reading: reading with fluency.
Every child reading by 8 is one of the biggest myths school perpetuates.
---Meredith
>> And yet most school children I have met learn to read between 3 à 7 or 8.**************
Part of the confusion is that what kids learn to do in school isn't "reading" in the way adults read - it's not reading "fluently" with good comprehension, its going through the motions of reading. Schools expect kids' "comprehension" to lag a year or two behind their "reading" in fact. And parents have gotten used to that kind of "reading" - little kids making appropriate mouth noises with little understanding.
When unschoolers - and many home schoolers - talk about reading they mean "adult" reading: reading with fluency.
>it brings confusion when I can see around me thatIn addition to the ways school trains kids to do something Like reading, it also trains kids to cover up when they can't read. It does this overtly both by redefining reading anc by creating special "reading groups" and other "special help" sessions for "slow learners" and it does it covertly by dint of the social pressure of school - they learn to hide the fact they don't understand what they're reading.
> it's simply not true.
>
Every child reading by 8 is one of the biggest myths school perpetuates.
---Meredith
Meredith
"zachsmom31" <melgates@...> wrote:
It might help to think in terms of "literacy" rather than "reading" as such - there's a whooooole lot which goes into "literacy" besides the physical act of reading. Even without decoding print, your son is busy every day learning about print - he knows a lot already! I'm willing to bet he holds books and magazines right way up and knows which is the front. He knows the difference between a fictional story and a news article and a set of directions. He probably knows what a plot is (even if he doesn't know the word, or uses "story arc" from having watched lots of movie extras) and a character. He knows about mood and tone and how those work differently in a fast-paced story versus a documentary. He is likely aware of similarities and differences in words - things like rhyme or alliteration or homophones, again even if he doesn't know those words. Chances are, he can recognize certain kinds of symbolism already.
That's a lot to know about literacy already!
It may also help you to notice things he does well Without the help of print. Kids who read later tend to develop better verbal memories, for instance - I mean they have an easier time remebering what they hear than us poor blighted souls who need to write everthing down (like me!).
---Meredith
> I do recognize in me a desire to "jump on" this current interest/willingness... It's been a challenge to step back from this, as I know others have experienced.*****************
It might help to think in terms of "literacy" rather than "reading" as such - there's a whooooole lot which goes into "literacy" besides the physical act of reading. Even without decoding print, your son is busy every day learning about print - he knows a lot already! I'm willing to bet he holds books and magazines right way up and knows which is the front. He knows the difference between a fictional story and a news article and a set of directions. He probably knows what a plot is (even if he doesn't know the word, or uses "story arc" from having watched lots of movie extras) and a character. He knows about mood and tone and how those work differently in a fast-paced story versus a documentary. He is likely aware of similarities and differences in words - things like rhyme or alliteration or homophones, again even if he doesn't know those words. Chances are, he can recognize certain kinds of symbolism already.
That's a lot to know about literacy already!
It may also help you to notice things he does well Without the help of print. Kids who read later tend to develop better verbal memories, for instance - I mean they have an easier time remebering what they hear than us poor blighted souls who need to write everthing down (like me!).
---Meredith
NCMama
=-=This is all helpful information, Meredith. The point of wanting to have some games up my sleeve wasn't so that we can spend the whole 300 miles playing reading games :-) However, I do recognize in me a desire to "jump on" this current interest/willingness... It's been a challenge to step back from this, as I know others have experienced. So I need to continue to follow his lead and let go if he changes course.=-=
It's not so much about stepping away from "reading" things when he's not specifically showing an interest about reading, trusting that he'll "come back" - it's that you honestly don't know, can't know, what form his learning to read will take.
Natural learning looks nothing like school learning, and it's less that unschoolers don't push "reading materials" than that unschoolers know learning truly happens *all the time*. That's not just a way to say that all subjects will be covered in due course; that's saying bits & pieces get picked up by kids all the time, with everything they're doing, and we can't say what bits and pieces will get used when or where or for what purpose.
In other words, you don't even needs games about words or letters or spelling to provide an environment or experience for learning about reading. (as long as you're living in a print-rich environment, which most of us reading here do)
It might be that in a story you're telling about something a friend said, you'll use a word he's seen written before, and didn't know, and he'll make the connection that those letters he saw on the page make that word you just said. It's probable he won't even be aware he's made that connection, he'll just be able to read that word when he sees it again.
Singing a song might do more to help him read than reading a book will, at a particular time. Having the time and space for those bits & pieces to come together as they will, can be more helpful than trying to cram more bits & pieces in there. Time to daydream and BE and think freely and explore what makes him happy and what he's interested in gives him the freedom for those bits & pieces to connect & bounce off each other & reconnect & form new thoughts in a way that works best for HIM, which may look nothing like spelling or reading games. It might look more like building with Legos or beating a level on a video game - even one without written dialogue on the screen.
I remember when Seth was very young, maybe one or so, we went to a restaurant with my dad, and they had a Pepsi machine. Seth saw it and starting singing, "Ba da bap ba ba", the theme to the Pepsi commercials then. That - him seeing the commercial, and making the connection of the song to the Pepsi logo - had as much to do with him learning to read as reading books to him did.
So play the games if they're fun, but don't think those games are more necessary to learning to read than him listening to music he likes on his iPod, or just staring out the window, watching the scenery go by, or having a conversation with you about something a friend said.
peace,
Caren
(very cute Pepsi commercial -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7R-bR0cW8c)
It's not so much about stepping away from "reading" things when he's not specifically showing an interest about reading, trusting that he'll "come back" - it's that you honestly don't know, can't know, what form his learning to read will take.
Natural learning looks nothing like school learning, and it's less that unschoolers don't push "reading materials" than that unschoolers know learning truly happens *all the time*. That's not just a way to say that all subjects will be covered in due course; that's saying bits & pieces get picked up by kids all the time, with everything they're doing, and we can't say what bits and pieces will get used when or where or for what purpose.
In other words, you don't even needs games about words or letters or spelling to provide an environment or experience for learning about reading. (as long as you're living in a print-rich environment, which most of us reading here do)
It might be that in a story you're telling about something a friend said, you'll use a word he's seen written before, and didn't know, and he'll make the connection that those letters he saw on the page make that word you just said. It's probable he won't even be aware he's made that connection, he'll just be able to read that word when he sees it again.
Singing a song might do more to help him read than reading a book will, at a particular time. Having the time and space for those bits & pieces to come together as they will, can be more helpful than trying to cram more bits & pieces in there. Time to daydream and BE and think freely and explore what makes him happy and what he's interested in gives him the freedom for those bits & pieces to connect & bounce off each other & reconnect & form new thoughts in a way that works best for HIM, which may look nothing like spelling or reading games. It might look more like building with Legos or beating a level on a video game - even one without written dialogue on the screen.
I remember when Seth was very young, maybe one or so, we went to a restaurant with my dad, and they had a Pepsi machine. Seth saw it and starting singing, "Ba da bap ba ba", the theme to the Pepsi commercials then. That - him seeing the commercial, and making the connection of the song to the Pepsi logo - had as much to do with him learning to read as reading books to him did.
So play the games if they're fun, but don't think those games are more necessary to learning to read than him listening to music he likes on his iPod, or just staring out the window, watching the scenery go by, or having a conversation with you about something a friend said.
peace,
Caren
(very cute Pepsi commercial -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7R-bR0cW8c)