Newbie Needing Advice
vannahmakes5
> Hi all! This year I am homeschooling my two boys ages 12 and 17. The reason we decided to try this was due to economic hardships that are forcing us to relocate. It made more sense to me that I "teach" them than deal with the stress of starting in one place then moving and starting all over again in the new town. This seemed especially important where my 12 yr old is concerned since he would be starting middle school and those mid-years are difficult anyway. He is also painfully shy and has low self esteem. I have tried the "school way" for 6 years now and everything I do to try and build him up they seem to come along and knock it all down. I went thru the whole curriculum search and acquired a few books to help me but things never felt right. Then I found this group! Yaaaaay! It was like a light bulb went off and things finally began making sense! Dont get me wrong, My school programed mind would say " yeah but what about........" then it would hit me that the "school" way is not the natural way it was just the only way I had ever known. So I totally understand why my children cant understand this concept at all. I have tried to just go about learning things with the boys that I know they enjoy and not even discuss whether it is school or not. Now my 12 year comes to me upset and feeling like he wants to go back to school because he isnt learning anything. Keep in mind this is the child I had to fight tooth and nail to do his homework. Now I am the one who is failing at "teaching" him anything. I know that it is mostly that he thinks a teacher standing up giving a lecture and writing a bunch of examples on the blackboard is how to learn and completing a ton of worksheets is the only way. Since I am not doing that he doesnt think he is learning. How can I explain this concept to the boys and get them excited about this great new adventure that we are beginning?
> Sharon
Meredith
"vannahmakes5" <vannahmakes5@...> wrote:
It might help to talk about natural learning and how adults learn in real life. He's gotten used to "learning" being this hard slog and he's had years of being told (by teachers and other parents and maybe you, too) that all that hard work was necessary and important. From his perspective, he's had a nice break, but now its time to do what he's "supposed to do" which is get back to work.
Sandra has collected a lot on the subject of "how learning works" here:
http://sandradodd.com/connections/
That could give you some ideas.
When we pulled my stepson, Ray, out of school at 13, he was very skeptical about the idea of "no school, not even homeschool" at first. It helped to talk about natural learning and some of the philosophy behind unschooling. We talked about deschooling, too - the first time I mentioned it he thought it was something I would do To him, like set him a bunch of "deschooling lessons" or exercises so he was glad to be reassured on that score. It helped Ray to know that this wasn't just some wild idea I'd cooked up, that other people do it too, and have been for years. I wasn't just abandoning him to his fate.
I want to add that I wouldn't explain unschooling to a younger child - although I don't want to put a number on "how young?" It really depends on the kid and what his or her concerns are and how much he or she has internalized all those messages.
---Meredith
>I have tried to just go about learning things with the boys that I know they enjoy and not even discuss whether it is school or not. Now my 12 year comes to me upset and feeling like he wants to go back to school because he isnt learning anything.*****************
It might help to talk about natural learning and how adults learn in real life. He's gotten used to "learning" being this hard slog and he's had years of being told (by teachers and other parents and maybe you, too) that all that hard work was necessary and important. From his perspective, he's had a nice break, but now its time to do what he's "supposed to do" which is get back to work.
Sandra has collected a lot on the subject of "how learning works" here:
http://sandradodd.com/connections/
That could give you some ideas.
When we pulled my stepson, Ray, out of school at 13, he was very skeptical about the idea of "no school, not even homeschool" at first. It helped to talk about natural learning and some of the philosophy behind unschooling. We talked about deschooling, too - the first time I mentioned it he thought it was something I would do To him, like set him a bunch of "deschooling lessons" or exercises so he was glad to be reassured on that score. It helped Ray to know that this wasn't just some wild idea I'd cooked up, that other people do it too, and have been for years. I wasn't just abandoning him to his fate.
I want to add that I wouldn't explain unschooling to a younger child - although I don't want to put a number on "how young?" It really depends on the kid and what his or her concerns are and how much he or she has internalized all those messages.
---Meredith
Shelly House
"I want to add that I wouldn't explain unschooling to a younger child - "
So what Do you say to a younger child? I have a 3.5 year old that I would
like to unschool. I think she has the expectation of going to school because
that is what she hears all the time. What should I say to her when this
comes up, as it will more often in the next year, so that she knows that she
won't be going to school and how do I make it feel normal/right to learn
with me at home instead?
Shelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
So what Do you say to a younger child? I have a 3.5 year old that I would
like to unschool. I think she has the expectation of going to school because
that is what she hears all the time. What should I say to her when this
comes up, as it will more often in the next year, so that she knows that she
won't be going to school and how do I make it feel normal/right to learn
with me at home instead?
Shelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jo kirby
Hi Shelly,
I kept things pretty simple with my son at that age. We had already met a few other home-edding and unschooling families through Yahoo groups so we had some friends by then who also didn't go, or wouldn't be going to school. So then I just said "some people go to school, and some people don't" "you know xxx, s/he goes to school, you know xxx, s/he doesn't" He seemed really happy with that. He knows different people do different things.
I realised that for him, being at home WAS normal. Once I realised that, I felt a lot calmer, and stopped worrying. It was my own baggage that had led me to question the 'normality' of not going to school versus going.
If you're definite that you don't want her to go, I would let her know sooner rather than later that she won't be going if I were you. I wouldn't wait for it to come up, especially as you think she is expecting to go. I don't think it's fair to let a child expect something you have decided they won't be doing. What about something like: "You know how some children go to school?, well, some children don't too. Not everyone has to go, and if you don't go, it means you get to do loads more interesting/fun/sparkly etc. things at home with Mummy/Daddy/siblings etc., and that is what we will be doing". I would then ask her what she thinks/feels about what you've just said, and talk her thoughts/feelings through with her.
Good luck,
Jo
________________________________
From: Shelly House <shellythouse@...>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, 12 October 2011, 2:33
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Newbie Needing Advice
"I want to add that I wouldn't explain unschooling to a younger child - "
So what Do you say to a younger child? I have a 3.5 year old that I would
like to unschool. I think she has the expectation of going to school because
that is what she hears all the time. What should I say to her when this
comes up, as it will more often in the next year, so that she knows that she
won't be going to school and how do I make it feel normal/right to learn
with me at home instead?
Shelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I kept things pretty simple with my son at that age. We had already met a few other home-edding and unschooling families through Yahoo groups so we had some friends by then who also didn't go, or wouldn't be going to school. So then I just said "some people go to school, and some people don't" "you know xxx, s/he goes to school, you know xxx, s/he doesn't" He seemed really happy with that. He knows different people do different things.
I realised that for him, being at home WAS normal. Once I realised that, I felt a lot calmer, and stopped worrying. It was my own baggage that had led me to question the 'normality' of not going to school versus going.
If you're definite that you don't want her to go, I would let her know sooner rather than later that she won't be going if I were you. I wouldn't wait for it to come up, especially as you think she is expecting to go. I don't think it's fair to let a child expect something you have decided they won't be doing. What about something like: "You know how some children go to school?, well, some children don't too. Not everyone has to go, and if you don't go, it means you get to do loads more interesting/fun/sparkly etc. things at home with Mummy/Daddy/siblings etc., and that is what we will be doing". I would then ask her what she thinks/feels about what you've just said, and talk her thoughts/feelings through with her.
Good luck,
Jo
________________________________
From: Shelly House <shellythouse@...>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, 12 October 2011, 2:33
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Newbie Needing Advice
"I want to add that I wouldn't explain unschooling to a younger child - "
So what Do you say to a younger child? I have a 3.5 year old that I would
like to unschool. I think she has the expectation of going to school because
that is what she hears all the time. What should I say to her when this
comes up, as it will more often in the next year, so that she knows that she
won't be going to school and how do I make it feel normal/right to learn
with me at home instead?
Shelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Debra Rossing
We never 'told' DS anything specifically. When questions/comments arose, we just said "we're planning to homeschool" and left it at that, for the most part. If people asked in more detail (which was rare prior to "school age"), we'd use terms like "whole life learning", which people seem to 'get' when talking about a 3 or 4 yr old but somehow 'lose' when talking about a 5 or 6 yr old. We only used 'unschooling' as a label/concept amongst homeschoolers and other unschoolers at that point. As far as DS knew, there was no difference - his whole life was his learning. At one point, around age 6 or 7, someone asked what he did for "homeschooling" and he said "I learn by doing stuff". Pretty accurate assessment. There's a bit of a difference as far as what you might 'tell' a child who has never been in school vs. a child who has been in school (even preschool) and now is not. We also made it a point, especially early on in the 'school years', to attend things like the Live and Learn conference, the Northeast Unschooling Conference, etc. so that DS knew lots of other kids who were "not schooled" the same as he was. It was no big deal for him. Other kids might have a different take on it of course but for him, knowing this was just "normal life", not just for us but for other families too, was all he needed. He's 13 now and has no intention of going to school at this point (of course, that may change as he gets older - the option is always open to him; he'd rather have time to do his own thing than have to conform to school schedules and requirements).
--Deb R
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Julie
I told James, around 4 years old that we are homeschooling. After that, when people asked him about preschool, and especially kindergarten, he just told them we homeschool. If it's a school kid that asks him, especially over 8 or so, they invariably tell him how lucky he is. Every single time. He has never had one minute's interest in school or buses, etc. He tells me most days lately that he loves his life.
When people ask/asked me, I just replied that we're homeschooling and they invariably said/say they could never do it and many say something about the joy of being away from their kids all day. If they say it too derisively, I say they probably shouldn't try then and that the kids are better off in school if they feel that way. There is nothing said after that.
I am a confident person and don't care much about others' opinions. I'm also a happy loner with few friends, so that probably helps ;) My feeling is that if you don't live in my house, you don't get a vote in how we live our lives!
Julie M
James, 6
Tyler, 4
Audrey, 2
When people ask/asked me, I just replied that we're homeschooling and they invariably said/say they could never do it and many say something about the joy of being away from their kids all day. If they say it too derisively, I say they probably shouldn't try then and that the kids are better off in school if they feel that way. There is nothing said after that.
I am a confident person and don't care much about others' opinions. I'm also a happy loner with few friends, so that probably helps ;) My feeling is that if you don't live in my house, you don't get a vote in how we live our lives!
Julie M
James, 6
Tyler, 4
Audrey, 2
--- In [email protected], Debra Rossing <debra.rossing@...> wrote:
>
> We never 'told' DS anything specifically. When questions/comments arose, we just said "we're planning to homeschool" and left it at that, for the most part. If people asked in more detail (which was rare prior to "school age"), we'd use terms like "whole life learning", which people seem to 'get' when talking about a 3 or 4 yr old but somehow 'lose' when talking about a 5 or 6 yr old. We only used 'unschooling' as a label/concept amongst homeschoolers and other unschoolers at that point. As far as DS knew, there was no difference - his whole life was his learning. At one point, around age 6 or 7, someone asked what he did for "homeschooling" and he said "I learn by doing stuff". Pretty accurate assessment. There's a bit of a difference as far as what you might 'tell' a child who has never been in school vs. a child who has been in school (even preschool) and now is not. We also made it a point, especially early on in the 'school years', to attend things like the Live and Learn conference, the Northeast Unschooling Conference, etc. so that DS knew lots of other kids who were "not schooled" the same as he was. It was no big deal for him. Other kids might have a different take on it of course but for him, knowing this was just "normal life", not just for us but for other families too, was all he needed. He's 13 now and has no intention of going to school at this point (of course, that may change as he gets older - the option is always open to him; he'd rather have time to do his own thing than have to conform to school schedules and requirements).
>
> --Deb R
>
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Meredith
Shelly House <shellythouse@...> wrote:
Find out what she thinks looks or sounds interesting or fun and provide those things *without* school - there's no real reason to offer extra information about why until and unless she asks for it. Some kids want to "go to school" because all their school friends have new pencils and lunchboxes right now and they want some too! Or they want to play with their friends without understanding that they may not be in the same class, or they won't get to play together as long as if they just went over to their house. Or they might want to paint on a biiiig easel but not realize they only do that one day a week. So you can talk about those things as they come up.
I found it also helps if you know older kids, kids who've been in school long enough to know how much is drudgery and would much, much rather be home playing all day.
It can also help to talk about the school schedule - getting up early, not being allowed to see mommy for hours at a time, not being allowed to eat or go pee when you want. Not in a "kid prison" kind of way, but in terms of providing information about the world. The "school is fun" propaganda aimed at little kids consistently leaves out those important details, after all.
Oh! and some kids get excited about stories of playing on the school playground. So it can be helpful to point out how little time is spent outside.
None of this has anything to do with "explaining unschooling" btw. To a young child, "unschooling" is just life as usual - what's to explain? It's more a matter of giving information about the rest of the world as needed.
At the same time, look for more homeschoolers in your area. Those school-going friends may become less available, so its a good idea to look for other playmates anyway.
---Meredith
>> So what Do you say to a younger child? I have a 3.5 year old...I would wait until the question comes up in conversation, naturally - that's how a lot of unschooling "works" through normal day-to-day chit chat.
Find out what she thinks looks or sounds interesting or fun and provide those things *without* school - there's no real reason to offer extra information about why until and unless she asks for it. Some kids want to "go to school" because all their school friends have new pencils and lunchboxes right now and they want some too! Or they want to play with their friends without understanding that they may not be in the same class, or they won't get to play together as long as if they just went over to their house. Or they might want to paint on a biiiig easel but not realize they only do that one day a week. So you can talk about those things as they come up.
I found it also helps if you know older kids, kids who've been in school long enough to know how much is drudgery and would much, much rather be home playing all day.
It can also help to talk about the school schedule - getting up early, not being allowed to see mommy for hours at a time, not being allowed to eat or go pee when you want. Not in a "kid prison" kind of way, but in terms of providing information about the world. The "school is fun" propaganda aimed at little kids consistently leaves out those important details, after all.
Oh! and some kids get excited about stories of playing on the school playground. So it can be helpful to point out how little time is spent outside.
None of this has anything to do with "explaining unschooling" btw. To a young child, "unschooling" is just life as usual - what's to explain? It's more a matter of giving information about the rest of the world as needed.
At the same time, look for more homeschoolers in your area. Those school-going friends may become less available, so its a good idea to look for other playmates anyway.
---Meredith
Debra Rossing
Way back when, DS was around 5ish, we spent the lovely late spring day at the park with a local eclectic homeschool group. We were heading home happily tired and ended up behind a school bus taking kids home. DH and I didn't say much but DS popped out with "If I went to school, I'd have no time to play or be with you and Daddy because I'd be in school and have homework." Didn't take him long to sort that out on his own really - he could readily compare his life - playing in the sun, sleeping as late as he needed to, eating when he wanted to, etc with the school bus taking kids away early in the morning and bringing them home later in the afternoon, with homework and early bedtimes and all to follow. For him, it was a no-brainer.
Deb R
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Deb R
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