melgqd

I have a recurring situation and I would love some comments on it.

First some background. My kids (boys, 6 and 9) and I have been deschooling since March of this year. My Husband and I try to follow (and have since birth) many attachment parenting and gentle parenting philosophies.

My 9yo is very interested in costumes. We have made many costumes over the years. I know how to sew and that has worked out nicely. As time goes on he wants more complicated costumes like stormtrooper, alien, predator etc. The difficulty I have is that he does not want to make them himself or evan really participate in the making of them because he feels like he has no skill for it. He would like me or my husband to make them. Neither of us are particularly good at art. But, when I try to make some of the more complex helmets, for example, he often complains that they don't look good enough and doesn't want them. Which is a bit frustrating when I'm trying my best and I'm getting discouraged about making more. I want to work with him because he loves this stuff and it is something that he is really interested in. I would love it if he would want to try to make some of the costumes/ pieces of costumes (which of course is me thinking about what I want), because I feel that only by trying things will he learn and get better (but again isn't that me thinking about the kid I want him to be and not the kid he is?).

I also notice this same type of behavior with building legos. He would like me to build for him. I'm currently working an a WW2 halftrack vehicle. He feels that if he builds it it won't be good enough. I've tried encouraging him, or trying to work together on something (John Holt would have wanted me to keep my mouth shut I'm sure). I think the scenes he sets up are good, but he watches these Youtube videos which are VERY GOOD and is disappointed in comparison. I've tried to explain about lighting and camera work on the videos making them look better and even taken stills of his stuff to show him, but that didn't really make him feel any better.

Is there a way to help him to want to try things for himself? And if not - if he just has to go at his pace (which is what I assume to be true)- how can I help myself work with him to get him the things he wants?

Thanks,
Melissa

[email protected]

Doncha just hate that! The things the 5-year-old and I make never look like the pictures on the Play-Doh box. Not even close. :)

So we had to talk about having fun with the Play-Doh our own way and that it didn't have to look like the box.

But Halloween costumes. First, the kids wanted things that I couldn't possibly make. Even if they wanted to help, and sometimes they did, I would just have to say it was not something I could do. And we brainstormed to find a costume that was possible.

And we had to learn that the thrill of having someone see the costume was not going to be so great if they had never heard of the esoteric creature we were aiming at. It had to be a recognizable thing. :)

Maybe there is someone in your area, a costume shop or something, that would let him in to talk about how these things are made professionally so he could see why Mom can't make them with the Singer sewing machine? Or to show him how he could learn to do it? Eventually. . .

Nance



--- In [email protected], "melgqd" <boisei@...> wrote:
>
> I have a recurring situation and I would love some comments on it.
>
> First some background. My kids (boys, 6 and 9) and I have been deschooling since March of this year. My Husband and I try to follow (and have since birth) many attachment parenting and gentle parenting philosophies.
>
> My 9yo is very interested in costumes. We have made many costumes over the years. I know how to sew and that has worked out nicely. As time goes on he wants more complicated costumes like stormtrooper, alien, predator etc. The difficulty I have is that he does not want to make them himself or evan really participate in the making of them because he feels like he has no skill for it. He would like me or my husband to make them. Neither of us are particularly good at art. But, when I try to make some of the more complex helmets, for example, he often complains that they don't look good enough and doesn't want them. Which is a bit frustrating when I'm trying my best and I'm getting discouraged about making more. I want to work with him because he loves this stuff and it is something that he is really interested in. I would love it if he would want to try to make some of the costumes/ pieces of costumes (which of course is me thinking about what I want), because I feel that only by trying things will he learn and get better (but again isn't that me thinking about the kid I want him to be and not the kid he is?).
>
> I also notice this same type of behavior with building legos. He would like me to build for him. I'm currently working an a WW2 halftrack vehicle. He feels that if he builds it it won't be good enough. I've tried encouraging him, or trying to work together on something (John Holt would have wanted me to keep my mouth shut I'm sure). I think the scenes he sets up are good, but he watches these Youtube videos which are VERY GOOD and is disappointed in comparison. I've tried to explain about lighting and camera work on the videos making them look better and even taken stills of his stuff to show him, but that didn't really make him feel any better.
>
> Is there a way to help him to want to try things for himself? And if not - if he just has to go at his pace (which is what I assume to be true)- how can I help myself work with him to get him the things he wants?
>
> Thanks,
> Melissa
>

Vickisue Gray

Making Stormtroopers helmets is involved!  My oldest, who is now 21, has been designing costumes for awhile now and has recently gotten into working with resins and such to customize the accessories.  There's a lot of trial and error involved in learning how to make awesome costumes so sometimes it's best just to buy the items already made.   I couldn't tell you if you could buy the items second hand, but the Halloween season is coming and that's when you can find some costumes at reasonable prices.

I totally understand the deflated feeling of spending hours and hours to make an outfit to only have it rejected.  I recently made my son a customized Druid robe, per his design, but the finished product didn't hang just right for what he was imagining. (It had extra features like the padded cowl so his 'familiar's claws did hurt him.)  It happens and they are just kids.  It's hard to imagine exactly what they wish, and recreate what they picture in their head exactly precisely.  I can only offer to try not to take it to heart too deeply.


Do you live near any of the Cons?  Here's a link to see what's up on the comic convention scene:  http://www.conventionscene.com/
It might help for your son to see what others are creating and maybe even talk to some of these folks as costumes come at all levels.  So does role playing.

It sounds like your son suffers from what many kids suffer from.  The need to be perfect and/or perfect a craft right out of the starting gate.  Sure, we would all love to sit down at the piano and be able to tickle those keys into a perfect tune, but skills come with patience and practice.  There's a learning curve for most things and the more you do something, the more it becomes easy.  Is there anything your son has worked at to progress through that you could use as an example for him?  Training a puppy?  Learning a game? A sport?  Something that would help him relate to how  he went from a beginner to more experienced? 


Also, just for fun, here's a few links I've found on DIY projects.  Maybe some of these links will be of interest to him? 


http://www.filthwizardry.com/2010/10/milk-jug-storm-trooper-helmet.html


http://www.studiocreations.com/howto/stormtrooper/index.html


http://www.tk560.com/stormtrooper.html

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-make-a-cardboard-costume-helmet/%c2%a0%c2%a0%c2%a0 ( www.instructables.com is an amazing site for all sorts of creations!)

http://familyfun.go.com/halloween/halloween-kids-costumes/



Hope this is of some help.  Good luck!


Vicki

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

anonymous

This came through the "pending" folder as a bit of advice and I've stripped away all the details of who and even which thread so that people can discuss the ideas without someone feeling "on the spot". ---Mer
******************************


I would encourage your son to participate by not doing things for him but with him. I can do almost everything better than my son, but doing it for him is not helping him. It would hurt him. So I let him stew for awhile until he gets a start on a project then I will jump in when he requests my help. But he has to take a run at it first.

Lesley Cross

"And we had to learn that the thrill of having someone see the costume was not going to be so great if they had never heard of the esoteric creature we were aiming at. It had to be a recognizable thing. :)"

We once had the direct opposite situation. I created a bionicle costume for my son using sweatclothes and fun foam. He wasn't entirely thrilled with my efforts, however it was Mickey's Not So Scary Halloween Party night at the Magic Kingdom in Disney World and for a lack of any other costume he still wanted to wear it. So many people commented on his costume that night, knowing exactly which bionicle he was and just loving it that he was much happier with the costume by the end of the night. A year or so later, bionicle costumes became available in stores already made. He said the one I made was better.

My kids aren't happy when I can't create what they want (or afford to buy it, in the moment- sometimes creating a plan to get it just doesn't do) There's not a whole lot I can do about that, other than offer my condolences for their disappointment, let them grieve it in whatever way they need to, and be open to whatever new ideas come up.

Lesley

http://www.lesleyreidcross.wordpress.com





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

plaidpanties666

"melgqd" <boisei@...> wrote:
> The difficulty I have is that he does not want to make them himself or evan really participate in the making of them because he feels like he has no skill for it.
*********************

I'm a pretty multi-talented person, but there are plenty of things I don't want to even try doing. I'm not interested in learning those skills, in going through the process of messing up over and over until I get something "right" enough for my rather high standards. I'm a bit of a perfectionist in that way - and yet, as I said, there are a lot of things I do very well. It's okay to decide Not to learn something.

>>But, when I try to make some of the more complex helmets, for example, he often complains that they don't look good enough and doesn't want them.
******************

If you're getting discouraged regularly, talk about that. I'm no good at a lot of video games and for awhile Mo wanted me to play with her. I'd perform poorly and she'd get upset with me. Finally I told her I didn't enjoy playing if I was going to do badly and get yelled at, too, and I wouldn't play unless it was something I felt like I could reasonably handle. We did some experimenting to get an idea of what that was and figured out how to talk to each other on the subject without getting irritated - it took some trial and error, but now we get along pretty well around games. She's not upset if I say "honey, I'm pretty sure I'm going to suck at that" and I try to stretch my abilities a little, too.

In some ways, its like working on an adult relationship except, since I'm the only adult, its up to me to be kinder and more thoughtful and stretch more.

>>I think the scenes he sets up are good, but he watches these Youtube videos which are VERY GOOD and is disappointed in comparison.
********************

Hunt out simpler videos for him. I found that helped Mo with lego building and animation - seeing some very simple, kind of clunky pieces that other kids had made, not just the wizz-bang stuff. That helped her have a sense of perspective about her own work.

> Is there a way to help him to want to try things for himself?

No.
It's more helpful for you to step back and see the things he Already does for himself rather than wishing he'd do more, now. Support him where he is. That doesn't necessarily mean You do things for him if you aren't capable of doing what he wants. It's flattering that he expects so much of you, but it's okay to say "I don't have the ability to do that" and then to start looking for other ways for him to get what he wants. Maybe he'll come up with the idea to do it himself, but that's not the only solution or even necessarily the best one.

---Meredith

plaidpanties666

-- In [email protected], anonymous wrote:
> So I let him stew for awhile until he gets a start on a project then I will jump in when he requests my help. But he has to take a run at it first.
*********************

That's the sort of advice that sounds good... if it works. The problem is that it doesn't much of the time! Often, kids feel pressured or abandoned or punished and decide its not worth the bother and then run themselves down, emotionally, as "not good enough" (not good enough to be helped). It's a pretty well proven way to crash a kid's self-esteem.

>> I can do almost everything better than my son, but doing it for him is not helping him. It would hurt him.
******************

Offering a hand when someone is in over his or her head isn't harmful, its kind. One of the marvelous things I've had the pleasure of learning from unschooling my kids is that it's Okay to be kind to them. Like most parents, I thought that I had to be hard, to be "cruel to be kind" as it were, like in the description above - saying "no" to teach a child he can do it himself. It's neither necessary or effective! any more than boring children so they'll "find something to do" is necessary or effective. Children who are helped also learn.

My stepson, Ray is somewhat hampered by the fact that I used to parent this way - refusing to do things "for" him - and his bio mom is still very much of this mindset. He's a social learner! He needs someone to walk and talk and socialize him through a lot of things - not everything, some things he learns on his own, but he can tell pretty quickly when he needs a guide, when he needs someone to do it for him, talk to him, hang out with him, gently bring him into the process. Without that help, he's at sea - but he also learned early in life not to ask his parents (and me) for help. So we no longer have the option of participating in his learning process. For that, he turns to friends, since we long since proved ourselves untrustworthy in that regard. We blew it.

My daughter is very different, very independent. If she wants to learn to do something, she jumps in and figures it out. She might look over my shoulder when I'm doing something and ask a question or two to get a sense of the process. Sometimes she walks into George's wood-shop and watches him work, observes the use of the tools and the various processes. She's not a social learner at all, she's a watcher and an experimenter. If she'd been my first child, I would probably have thought what this poster thought - that I could say "you do it" and my kid would - because that's the way Mo's personality works.

---Meredith (Mo 10, Ray 17)

Doug & Melissa Edwards

Thanks for this post Meredith. The quickest way to get my son to never want to try something and start a fight about it is to tell him he has to do it himself (even just to start). I've seen him react this way in the past. Hopefully we can still recover from the times it has happened this way. I'm a very jump-in-and-do-it kind of person and sometimes it is hard to relate to someone who wants something, but doesn't want to do what I think needs to be done to get it. "I want the ship so I'll try to build it" (but of course this is the old thinking about what "I" think needs to happen).
Melissa
On Aug 19, 2011, at 1:05 PM, plaidpanties666 wrote:

> -- In [email protected], anonymous wrote:
> > So I let him stew for awhile until he gets a start on a project then I will jump in when he requests my help. But he has to take a run at it first.
> *********************
>
> That's the sort of advice that sounds good... if it works. The problem is that it doesn't much of the time! Often, kids feel pressured or abandoned or punished and decide its not worth the bother and then run themselves down, emotionally, as "not good enough" (not good enough to be helped). It's a pretty well proven way to crash a kid's self-esteem.
>
> >> I can do almost everything better than my son, but doing it for him is not helping him. It would hurt him.
> ******************
>
> Offering a hand when someone is in over his or her head isn't harmful, its kind. One of the marvelous things I've had the pleasure of learning from unschooling my kids is that it's Okay to be kind to them. Like most parents, I thought that I had to be hard, to be "cruel to be kind" as it were, like in the description above - saying "no" to teach a child he can do it himself. It's neither necessary or effective! any more than boring children so they'll "find something to do" is necessary or effective. Children who are helped also learn.
>
> My stepson, Ray is somewhat hampered by the fact that I used to parent this way - refusing to do things "for" him - and his bio mom is still very much of this mindset. He's a social learner! He needs someone to walk and talk and socialize him through a lot of things - not everything, some things he learns on his own, but he can tell pretty quickly when he needs a guide, when he needs someone to do it for him, talk to him, hang out with him, gently bring him into the process. Without that help, he's at sea - but he also learned early in life not to ask his parents (and me) for help. So we no longer have the option of participating in his learning process. For that, he turns to friends, since we long since proved ourselves untrustworthy in that regard. We blew it.
>
> My daughter is very different, very independent. If she wants to learn to do something, she jumps in and figures it out. She might look over my shoulder when I'm doing something and ask a question or two to get a sense of the process. Sometimes she walks into George's wood-shop and watches him work, observes the use of the tools and the various processes. She's not a social learner at all, she's a watcher and an experimenter. If she'd been my first child, I would probably have thought what this poster thought - that I could say "you do it" and my kid would - because that's the way Mo's personality works.
>
> ---Meredith (Mo 10, Ray 17)
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sacha Davis

thank you as well for this Meredith - I don't feel that I leave my kids out there dangling as a parenting strategy but I'm sure I do this without thinking about it, most likely because it was done to me and it's a very accepted practice. While I want independence from my kids, I also don't want them to experience so much frustration that it impacts their learning. It's always good to be aware of these things.

S.

__________________________________
Sacha (40), mommy to Finn (4) & Zivia (0) and wife to Megan (38)

Livin' la vida loca in Georgetown, Seattle














On Aug 19, 2011, at 1:05 PM, plaidpanties666 wrote:

> -- In [email protected], anonymous wrote:
> > So I let him stew for awhile until he gets a start on a project then I will jump in when he requests my help. But he has to take a run at it first.
> *********************
>
> That's the sort of advice that sounds good... if it works. The problem is that it doesn't much of the time! Often, kids feel pressured or abandoned or punished and decide its not worth the bother and then run themselves down, emotionally, as "not good enough" (not good enough to be helped). It's a pretty well proven way to crash a kid's self-esteem.
>
> >> I can do almost everything better than my son, but doing it for him is not helping him. It would hurt him.
> ******************
>
> Offering a hand when someone is in over his or her head isn't harmful, its kind. One of the marvelous things I've had the pleasure of learning from unschooling my kids is that it's Okay to be kind to them. Like most parents, I thought that I had to be hard, to be "cruel to be kind" as it were, like in the description above - saying "no" to teach a child he can do it himself. It's neither necessary or effective! any more than boring children so they'll "find something to do" is necessary or effective. Children who are helped also learn.
>
> My stepson, Ray is somewhat hampered by the fact that I used to parent this way - refusing to do things "for" him - and his bio mom is still very much of this mindset. He's a social learner! He needs someone to walk and talk and socialize him through a lot of things - not everything, some things he learns on his own, but he can tell pretty quickly when he needs a guide, when he needs someone to do it for him, talk to him, hang out with him, gently bring him into the process. Without that help, he's at sea - but he also learned early in life not to ask his parents (and me) for help. So we no longer have the option of participating in his learning process. For that, he turns to friends, since we long since proved ourselves untrustworthy in that regard. We blew it.
>
> My daughter is very different, very independent. If she wants to learn to do something, she jumps in and figures it out. She might look over my shoulder when I'm doing something and ask a question or two to get a sense of the process. Sometimes she walks into George's wood-shop and watches him work, observes the use of the tools and the various processes. She's not a social learner at all, she's a watcher and an experimenter. If she'd been my first child, I would probably have thought what this poster thought - that I could say "you do it" and my kid would - because that's the way Mo's personality works.
>
> ---Meredith (Mo 10, Ray 17)
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

*****************************


<<<"I would encourage your son to participate by not doing things for him but with him. I can do almost everything better than my son, but doing it for him is not helping him. It would hurt him. So I let him stew for awhile until he gets a start on a project then I will jump in when he requests my help. But he has to take a run at it first.">>>>



-=-=-=-=-=-=-


I jump in and help my kids whenever they ask. I do things for them all the time. Sometimes they will just watch for a long time and then in the future do it themselves. They also jump in and help me do things.
Sometimes I start and they will join in, sometimes just watch. But even if they just ask me and I do it for them I love to see they joy I bring to them.
My son loves for me to bring him drink and food when he is in his room playing. That is a way he feels loved and cared for. I could just tell him to get it himself.
He is nine and very capable of doing so. I still do it for him.
If I am in bed and call him and ask him to go down stairs and get me some water he also does it without complaining. That is what he learned.
When he started playing Roblox on line my son was 5. Kids message each other while playing so I started reading it for him.
At first he wanted me to write the answers and communicate for him. I could have made him type himself. He could already do a lot but I typed for him for months. Then he needed me less and less but there were days he asked me to do it. I did it gladly .
after a while he was reading and typing fluently.
No need to let him stew or make him do it. Same with so many other things he does now. In the beginning I did it for him and then he took over.
I said:"Yes." and I did it for him.

Maybe you are afraid that if you child does not do it himself you would be raising a child that is lazy or expects others to do things for him.
I have not had that experience at all. I was raised with many maids while growing up. We always had a maid for cooking, cleaning, gardening, washing and ironing clothes and putting them away. It did not hinder me at all. I could do all those things early on.
 Lots of people learn by watching others . Some learn by doing better.  People learn different.
My daugther is one that is more likely to want to participate and help while I am doing something for her. My son will watch me do it and then one day go and do it himself without asking for help. Two different personalities and styles of learning.
Unschooling is about learning and knowing people learn in different ways is very important to make unschooling work.

Alex Polikowksy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

plaidpanties666

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...> wrote:
>> Maybe you are afraid that if you child does not do it himself you would be raising a child that is lazy or expects others to do things for him.
*************************

In some families, "care-taking" is how moms show love - and if there aren't many other obvious signs of affection from a child's point of view, then its natural for kids to resist doing things for themselves because its like turning down their mother's love. It's not a terribly healthy dynamic and its a source of personal baggage on this issue.

---Meredith

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

<<"In some families, "care-taking" is how moms show love - and if there aren't many other obvious signs of affection from a child's point of view, then its natural for kids to resist doing things for themselves because its like turning down their mother's love. It's not a terribly healthy dynamic and its a source of personal baggage on this issue. ">>>


=-=-=-

And for some people/ children "care-taking" is how they experience love.
It is how they feel they are loved.
Who has a link to that ??

Alex Polikowsky

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

maryann

I sent this over the weekend, but it didn't work, so I'm trying again. Sorry for the delay. It's long-- I hope it's helpful.

>>>>>>>>>>
But, when I try to make some of the more complex helmets, for example, he often complains that they don't look good enough and doesn't want them. Which is a bit frustrating when I'm trying my best and I'm getting discouraged about making more. I want to work with him because he loves this stuff and it is something that he is really interested in.
>>>>>>>>>

My own mom can sew really well. Over the years, she has saved lots of money, and gotten lots of compliments, and even more compliments when she said "I made it." When she was in high school, she had no money for clothes, but she would window-shop in fancy stores, go to the bargin bin of the fabric store to find deals, and go home and make the "exact same thing only better" and look gorgeous and stylish. She made curtains and lots of other household items, toys and many, many clothes for her four kids over the years, including play clothes, christmas dresses, easter dresses, halloween costumes, and lots of flower girl dresses, bridesmaid dresses and prom dresses for her daughters and herself and others. She is currently making an elaborate silk wedding gown for her youngest daughter, and she made incredible, hand-beaded, gorgeous wedding gowns for her older two daughters, too.

She is very talented!! But, when I was a child, and I saw something cool in a store that I would like to wear, I often did not appreciate it when my mom said she could make it for me. She made me many things, and I liked them and wore them and looked cute in them. But we think differently. The things my mom makes turn out beautifully because she is creative and skilled. But if I had a specific thing in mind, it *never* turned out the way I wanted it because she does not see things the same way I do, (and because some things are not easily copied). She would sometimes make something and say it looked "just like the picture" (only better), and all I could see were all the ways it DIDN'T look like the picture. Usually it was missing the little things I had been most attracted to originally.

I resented that she didn't appreciate what I liked about a particular thing, no matter how much I tried to explain or draw it or show it in a photograph or in person in a store. I resented that she saw me as ungrateful and unappreciative of her efforts. I resented that she got her feelings about needing to be seen as a great creator and clever money-savor all wrapped up in my feelings about wanting to choose my own outfit. And I was frustrated by being told that my mom's ideas were better than my own. She thought I was being too picky and was unappreciative of her, and I thought she was being dismissive of my ideas and cheap and just didn't care to understand me.

I learned to not expect things she made to look like the original picture. I learned to appreciate my mom's efforts. But there was a lot of frustration along the way. When my mom would make something instead of buying it for me, she meant to give love by making something she couldn't afford to buy. In her mind, she spent her precious time *making* something, rather than sleeping or cleaning or just saying "no". She would be SO disappointed if I didn't LOVE it and wear it and brag about it and show it off. I learned not to tell her if it wasn't what I wanted or liked. I learned to let her make what she wanted and accept it as a gift. I learned to be glad if I at least got to choose the fabric and/or the color. And actually, over the years, she got better at figuring out how to make clothes more like I wanted them, too. My wedding dress was so beautiful, and I loved that my mom made it for me.

I understand now, that my mom is good at seeing the "big picture". She has incorporated more attention to detail with time. I am more focused on details, but have learned to sometimes make or buy something that's "good enough" rather than perfect, in order to save money or time.

What I want to say here is that maybe your son wants something you can't make. Maybe he's accepting you making it because it seems to be the only way he can have costumes, but what he would LOVE is to have the helmet that looks remarkably like the one on the movie. Maybe he notices every little detailed mark and line and color and would be so excited to have that in person that it would be worth buying a nice one.

Maybe you are putting lots of love into making him things, but what he *needs* is for you to understand and value his attention to detail. Maybe he needs you to help him *find* the most perfectly detailed helmet so that he will know that you value how important that is to him. Maybe he needs to know that his interest in details is more important to you than your need for him to think your creations are good.

And once he knows that, I bet he will be a lot more appreciative of the effort you are putting into making him things, too.

And, on the flip side, once he gets to look at lots of store-bought costume items, he may start to see how many details are often left out of those, too. And he may start to appreciate more what you have tried to make. OR, he may want to buy store-bought things that are *pretty close* to the "real thing", and have you add more details to them. Or learn to do small alterations himself.

I do think it's important to separate your feelings about *your* efforts from your sons feelings about wanting detailed costume pieces. It's not useful to him to feel guilty for not thinking your skills are great. It doesn't help him to hear that details which are very important to him are not really important in your opinion. It doesn't help him to hear that if he sees something he would like to wear he should either accept something different which his parents made or try to make it himself without skills or resources.

My parents wanted to instill in us that it was preferable to "do it yourself" rather than buying stuff, so that we would do it ourselves, too. They've created a lot of nice things themselves at their house. Problem comes if what the kid is learning is, "Yeah you can make things yourself, but it doesn't often turn out right." He's going to dig in his heels to show that it's not quite right, rather than being empowered to think, "Hey, yeah, doing it myself is great, so I want to do it too."

maryann

Doug & Melissa Edwards

Maryann,
Thanks for your insights. Some of your comments really hit the nail on the head.
Melissa
On Aug 24, 2011, at 11:51 AM, maryann wrote:

>
>
> I sent this over the weekend, but it didn't work, so I'm trying again. Sorry for the delay. It's long-- I hope it's helpful.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> But, when I try to make some of the more complex helmets, for example, he often complains that they don't look good enough and doesn't want them. Which is a bit frustrating when I'm trying my best and I'm getting discouraged about making more. I want to work with him because he loves this stuff and it is something that he is really interested in.
> >>>>>>>>>
>
> My own mom can sew really well. Over the years, she has saved lots of money, and gotten lots of compliments, and even more compliments when she said "I made it." When she was in high school, she had no money for clothes, but she would window-shop in fancy stores, go to the bargin bin of the fabric store to find deals, and go home and make the "exact same thing only better" and look gorgeous and stylish. She made curtains and lots of other household items, toys and many, many clothes for her four kids over the years, including play clothes, christmas dresses, easter dresses, halloween costumes, and lots of flower girl dresses, bridesmaid dresses and prom dresses for her daughters and herself and others. She is currently making an elaborate silk wedding gown for her youngest daughter, and she made incredible, hand-beaded, gorgeous wedding gowns for her older two daughters, too.
>
> She is very talented!! But, when I was a child, and I saw something cool in a store that I would like to wear, I often did not appreciate it when my mom said she could make it for me. She made me many things, and I liked them and wore them and looked cute in them. But we think differently. The things my mom makes turn out beautifully because she is creative and skilled. But if I had a specific thing in mind, it *never* turned out the way I wanted it because she does not see things the same way I do, (and because some things are not easily copied). She would sometimes make something and say it looked "just like the picture" (only better), and all I could see were all the ways it DIDN'T look like the picture. Usually it was missing the little things I had been most attracted to originally.
>
> I resented that she didn't appreciate what I liked about a particular thing, no matter how much I tried to explain or draw it or show it in a photograph or in person in a store. I resented that she saw me as ungrateful and unappreciative of her efforts. I resented that she got her feelings about needing to be seen as a great creator and clever money-savor all wrapped up in my feelings about wanting to choose my own outfit. And I was frustrated by being told that my mom's ideas were better than my own. She thought I was being too picky and was unappreciative of her, and I thought she was being dismissive of my ideas and cheap and just didn't care to understand me.
>
> I learned to not expect things she made to look like the original picture. I learned to appreciate my mom's efforts. But there was a lot of frustration along the way. When my mom would make something instead of buying it for me, she meant to give love by making something she couldn't afford to buy. In her mind, she spent her precious time *making* something, rather than sleeping or cleaning or just saying "no". She would be SO disappointed if I didn't LOVE it and wear it and brag about it and show it off. I learned not to tell her if it wasn't what I wanted or liked. I learned to let her make what she wanted and accept it as a gift. I learned to be glad if I at least got to choose the fabric and/or the color. And actually, over the years, she got better at figuring out how to make clothes more like I wanted them, too. My wedding dress was so beautiful, and I loved that my mom made it for me.
>
> I understand now, that my mom is good at seeing the "big picture". She has incorporated more attention to detail with time. I am more focused on details, but have learned to sometimes make or buy something that's "good enough" rather than perfect, in order to save money or time.
>
> What I want to say here is that maybe your son wants something you can't make. Maybe he's accepting you making it because it seems to be the only way he can have costumes, but what he would LOVE is to have the helmet that looks remarkably like the one on the movie. Maybe he notices every little detailed mark and line and color and would be so excited to have that in person that it would be worth buying a nice one.
>
> Maybe you are putting lots of love into making him things, but what he *needs* is for you to understand and value his attention to detail. Maybe he needs you to help him *find* the most perfectly detailed helmet so that he will know that you value how important that is to him. Maybe he needs to know that his interest in details is more important to you than your need for him to think your creations are good.
>
> And once he knows that, I bet he will be a lot more appreciative of the effort you are putting into making him things, too.
>
> And, on the flip side, once he gets to look at lots of store-bought costume items, he may start to see how many details are often left out of those, too. And he may start to appreciate more what you have tried to make. OR, he may want to buy store-bought things that are *pretty close* to the "real thing", and have you add more details to them. Or learn to do small alterations himself.
>
> I do think it's important to separate your feelings about *your* efforts from your sons feelings about wanting detailed costume pieces. It's not useful to him to feel guilty for not thinking your skills are great. It doesn't help him to hear that details which are very important to him are not really important in your opinion. It doesn't help him to hear that if he sees something he would like to wear he should either accept something different which his parents made or try to make it himself without skills or resources.
>
> My parents wanted to instill in us that it was preferable to "do it yourself" rather than buying stuff, so that we would do it ourselves, too. They've created a lot of nice things themselves at their house. Problem comes if what the kid is learning is, "Yeah you can make things yourself, but it doesn't often turn out right." He's going to dig in his heels to show that it's not quite right, rather than being empowered to think, "Hey, yeah, doing it myself is great, so I want to do it too."
>
> maryann
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

maryann

Melissa, I'm so glad that it may help you and your son!

I risked sounding like an ungrateful brat posting those feelings. But I thought your son and other similar kids may not grow up worrying about sounding ungrateful if their parents had some insight into what they may be thinking.

FWIW, I've experienced a glimpse of the other side of this, as a parent too. At Christmas my son saw me working on painting little wooden people for a gift for his baby sister. I had studied tons of pictures on etsy and thought a lot about it beforehand, then was very meticulously (with great attention to detail) painting on these little people to look like our family. I had some that I had planned to paint for gifts for my son too, like star wars characters and superheros. But as he watched me painting his sister's, he happened to ask, "Why don't they have any arms?", "Why aren't you painting noses and mouths on them?...If I had those, I would want them to have a nose and a mouth and arms and feet....."

Funny, I thought I was being VERY detailed and they were coming out just how I wanted them. But I decided not to paint any for my son, and to buy him some plastic action figures instead. He LOVED them!! He's playing with them right now. :) My daughter loves her wooden people, too.

Growing up, my younger sister usually loved everything my mom made, and agreed that it was better than the original. My mom did add her own details, like for example, sewing little bells into the hem of a dress. What a fun idea!!...As long as you have a girl who wants to jingle! (My sister did---I did not.) So, once again it all comes back to knowing your individual child. Your boy will love you for it! :)

Maryann
ds 5
dd 22mo

--- In [email protected], Doug & Melissa Edwards <boisei@...> wrote:
>
> Maryann,
> Thanks for your insights. Some of your comments really hit the nail on the head.
> Melissa

dezta3

Thanks Maryann for sharing your personal experience. I enjoyed and learned a lot from your post. It actually brought some peace to myself as I looked into my childhood.

Fernanda
mom to Zolay 17 months