Encouragement vs talking him into it
Michele
Hi All,
I have been a lurker for a long while and now have a question.
Should/Can I encourage my son to try something without seeming like I trying to talk him into it or coerce him.
The background is my 13 (almost 14) year old son won a HUGE annual science competition that is state wide. the winning team, in each age group, goes for a week long stay at the Wrigley Marine Institute on Catalina Island. They do amazing things - study with the scientists, kayaking, campfires - oh all kinds of fun stuff (my opinion I understand). So ds doesn't really want to go. Sort of apathetic. He says he will go if I want him to but he would prefer not to. His team mates are all going and they are pretty good friends. We talked about trying it for a few days and coming home ANYtime he wants. There are ferries that we can arrange. He has been away from home many times so it isn't fear in that area. We are both introverts so i made sure there is down time... i think i covered all the concerns.
So, the real question is, how do I encourage him with out seeming like I am pushing him? Or do I let it go? I am thinking he might not realize all the cool stuff there will be to do. He says that yes, some of it sounds cool but there is a lot he doesn't care about. Kind of like the price for the cool stuff is too high.
So I let it go right?
(sorry for not proofreading - he is supposed to leave in 2 days and I am hoping to get some opinions right away. all this time I was assuming he was going until a couple days ago when he groaned at the mention of it and I asked him)
Michele
I have been a lurker for a long while and now have a question.
Should/Can I encourage my son to try something without seeming like I trying to talk him into it or coerce him.
The background is my 13 (almost 14) year old son won a HUGE annual science competition that is state wide. the winning team, in each age group, goes for a week long stay at the Wrigley Marine Institute on Catalina Island. They do amazing things - study with the scientists, kayaking, campfires - oh all kinds of fun stuff (my opinion I understand). So ds doesn't really want to go. Sort of apathetic. He says he will go if I want him to but he would prefer not to. His team mates are all going and they are pretty good friends. We talked about trying it for a few days and coming home ANYtime he wants. There are ferries that we can arrange. He has been away from home many times so it isn't fear in that area. We are both introverts so i made sure there is down time... i think i covered all the concerns.
So, the real question is, how do I encourage him with out seeming like I am pushing him? Or do I let it go? I am thinking he might not realize all the cool stuff there will be to do. He says that yes, some of it sounds cool but there is a lot he doesn't care about. Kind of like the price for the cool stuff is too high.
So I let it go right?
(sorry for not proofreading - he is supposed to leave in 2 days and I am hoping to get some opinions right away. all this time I was assuming he was going until a couple days ago when he groaned at the mention of it and I asked him)
Michele
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jun 3, 2011, at 10:52 PM, Michele wrote:
your focus on it.
It's very likely he'll have fun. But what if he doesn't? There will be
consequences to his ability to trust your "Trust me, you'll have fun."
and helping him refine his feelings.
The biggest problem is, the more you focus on what you want him to do,
the less you're focusing on him. It will feel like him going to this
is more important to you than he is.
I would let him know the deadline. Let him know that whatever he
decides is fine with you. And then carry on and let him work it out in
peace.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Should/Can I encourage my son to try something without seeming likeYou can't do it without seeming to. He'll feel your agenda through
> I trying to talk him into it or coerce him.
your focus on it.
It's very likely he'll have fun. But what if he doesn't? There will be
consequences to his ability to trust your "Trust me, you'll have fun."
> i think i covered all the concerns.Did you ask? Not just for a list but really listening to his answers
and helping him refine his feelings.
The biggest problem is, the more you focus on what you want him to do,
the less you're focusing on him. It will feel like him going to this
is more important to you than he is.
I would let him know the deadline. Let him know that whatever he
decides is fine with you. And then carry on and let him work it out in
peace.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
It sounds like you've done all the encouraging you could without crossing over into "pushy."
Might he like some other celebration of his awesome achievement? An outing with his science buddies?
Or not. Maybe he needs a break.
Nance
Might he like some other celebration of his awesome achievement? An outing with his science buddies?
Or not. Maybe he needs a break.
Nance
--- In [email protected], "Michele" <michelewith3@...> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
> I have been a lurker for a long while and now have a question.
>
> Should/Can I encourage my son to try something without seeming like I trying to talk him into it or coerce him.
>
> The background is my 13 (almost 14) year old son won a HUGE annual science competition that is state wide. the winning team, in each age group, goes for a week long stay at the Wrigley Marine Institute on Catalina Island. They do amazing things - study with the scientists, kayaking, campfires - oh all kinds of fun stuff (my opinion I understand). So ds doesn't really want to go. Sort of apathetic. He says he will go if I want him to but he would prefer not to. His team mates are all going and they are pretty good friends. We talked about trying it for a few days and coming home ANYtime he wants. There are ferries that we can arrange. He has been away from home many times so it isn't fear in that area. We are both introverts so i made sure there is down time... i think i covered all the concerns.
> So, the real question is, how do I encourage him with out seeming like I am pushing him? Or do I let it go? I am thinking he might not realize all the cool stuff there will be to do. He says that yes, some of it sounds cool but there is a lot he doesn't care about. Kind of like the price for the cool stuff is too high.
> So I let it go right?
> (sorry for not proofreading - he is supposed to leave in 2 days and I am hoping to get some opinions right away. all this time I was assuming he was going until a couple days ago when he groaned at the mention of it and I asked him)
> Michele
>
onskates
hello, michele.
If any of my kids were in your child's position i would be so excited! I love to do all sorts of things though had very little chance growing up to really excel and be offered such opportunities. Since it seems like you've approached this being respectful with him and listening I think one of the questions if it were me (as the mom) would probably be Would he benefit in knowing the background of my excitement? I think "having an agenda" isn't a horrible thing. It's a part of who I am that I can't help bring with me as a person and now a parent. Historically this "agenda" has often been hidden from myself. As time has goes on I learn more and more about this. Often others see it in me before I do which can be helpful.
My kids are pretty interested in others experiences including my own. I end up managing the telling of my experiences differently for each of my kids depending on the topic/issue at hand. My 12 year old daughter is very cautious about being out of her bounds, so to speak. She has a comfort level that in order to cross over she must talk about all the possible scenarios. At times like these I can sometimes share my experience via imagining with her what things might look and feel like. I think my own story means more to her in this context because of it being delivered with a similar weight as the other imaginings. Plus she knows I've been on the planet almost 4 times longer than her and believes me. I think imagining together is very exciting and hopeful.
A couple weeks ago this same daughter was invited (last minute she hates last minute) to go with her grammy and pa to their "special house", their summer home, for a few days. This was so overwhelming to her, which I expected. But I also knew that there was a decent chance that if she went with them she would not regret it. I did not push her nor just let her go as in decide completely on her own. I really wanted her to go but did not even come close to saying that to her. I flowed with her thoughts and questions and added my responses and thought/imaginings as if I were her, sort of...i mean as if it were me in her position and feelings. That's funny to think of now. But I knew there were going to be plenty of other opportunities like this and made sure to convey that I wasn't attached to if she did or didn't go without exactly saying those words. When she does want me to tell her what she should do in situations like this I tell her she has to decide. In this case she decided to go even though she has trouble with the decision right up until leaving. She was so happy she went! She had a great time! I suppose has a few things been different up there she may have not had a good time or she may have had mixed feelings.
So obviously I don't know you, your son or the dynamic between you beyond how I take what you've said but I think you care deeply and that's inspiring to me and ultimately to him. I don't think there is a right or wrong decision. Your interchange with him with your caring, honest sensibilities are what can be of value to him the most down the line. I'd love to know what he decides and how it goes!!
~joanne
If any of my kids were in your child's position i would be so excited! I love to do all sorts of things though had very little chance growing up to really excel and be offered such opportunities. Since it seems like you've approached this being respectful with him and listening I think one of the questions if it were me (as the mom) would probably be Would he benefit in knowing the background of my excitement? I think "having an agenda" isn't a horrible thing. It's a part of who I am that I can't help bring with me as a person and now a parent. Historically this "agenda" has often been hidden from myself. As time has goes on I learn more and more about this. Often others see it in me before I do which can be helpful.
My kids are pretty interested in others experiences including my own. I end up managing the telling of my experiences differently for each of my kids depending on the topic/issue at hand. My 12 year old daughter is very cautious about being out of her bounds, so to speak. She has a comfort level that in order to cross over she must talk about all the possible scenarios. At times like these I can sometimes share my experience via imagining with her what things might look and feel like. I think my own story means more to her in this context because of it being delivered with a similar weight as the other imaginings. Plus she knows I've been on the planet almost 4 times longer than her and believes me. I think imagining together is very exciting and hopeful.
A couple weeks ago this same daughter was invited (last minute she hates last minute) to go with her grammy and pa to their "special house", their summer home, for a few days. This was so overwhelming to her, which I expected. But I also knew that there was a decent chance that if she went with them she would not regret it. I did not push her nor just let her go as in decide completely on her own. I really wanted her to go but did not even come close to saying that to her. I flowed with her thoughts and questions and added my responses and thought/imaginings as if I were her, sort of...i mean as if it were me in her position and feelings. That's funny to think of now. But I knew there were going to be plenty of other opportunities like this and made sure to convey that I wasn't attached to if she did or didn't go without exactly saying those words. When she does want me to tell her what she should do in situations like this I tell her she has to decide. In this case she decided to go even though she has trouble with the decision right up until leaving. She was so happy she went! She had a great time! I suppose has a few things been different up there she may have not had a good time or she may have had mixed feelings.
So obviously I don't know you, your son or the dynamic between you beyond how I take what you've said but I think you care deeply and that's inspiring to me and ultimately to him. I don't think there is a right or wrong decision. Your interchange with him with your caring, honest sensibilities are what can be of value to him the most down the line. I'd love to know what he decides and how it goes!!
~joanne
--- In [email protected], "Michele" <michelewith3@...> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
> I have been a lurker for a long while and now have a question.
>
> Should/Can I encourage my son to try something without seeming like I trying to talk him into it or coerce him.
>
> The background is my 13 (almost 14) year old son won a HUGE annual science competition that is state wide. the winning team, in each age group, goes for a week long stay at the Wrigley Marine Institute on Catalina Island. They do amazing things - study with the scientists, kayaking, campfires - oh all kinds of fun stuff (my opinion I understand). So ds doesn't really want to go. Sort of apathetic. He says he will go if I want him to but he would prefer not to. His team mates are all going and they are pretty good friends. We talked about trying it for a few days and coming home ANYtime he wants. There are ferries that we can arrange. He has been away from home many times so it isn't fear in that area. We are both introverts so i made sure there is down time... i think i covered all the concerns.
> So, the real question is, how do I encourage him with out seeming like I am pushing him? Or do I let it go? I am thinking he might not realize all the cool stuff there will be to do. He says that yes, some of it sounds cool but there is a lot he doesn't care about. Kind of like the price for the cool stuff is too high.
> So I let it go right?
> (sorry for not proofreading - he is supposed to leave in 2 days and I am hoping to get some opinions right away. all this time I was assuming he was going until a couple days ago when he groaned at the mention of it and I asked him)
> Michele
>
Michele
All your answers have been really helpful as I think this thru.
My biggest problem, I think , is deschooling myself. I have been considering all the things he will be "missing out" on. Since it is such an amazing trip and experience I am having trouble wrapping my head around just Not taking advantage of it.
But, yes, his feelings about it are more important. I am butting up against the 'not respecting him' line. Thanks for helping me see that.
So, for future events and such would you help me with - When to help him outside his comfort zone toward something that has a lot of fun potential. Sometimes we all need a nudge, don't we?
Thank you all for so much!
Michele
---
My biggest problem, I think , is deschooling myself. I have been considering all the things he will be "missing out" on. Since it is such an amazing trip and experience I am having trouble wrapping my head around just Not taking advantage of it.
But, yes, his feelings about it are more important. I am butting up against the 'not respecting him' line. Thanks for helping me see that.
So, for future events and such would you help me with - When to help him outside his comfort zone toward something that has a lot of fun potential. Sometimes we all need a nudge, don't we?
Thank you all for so much!
Michele
---
Sacha Davis
I have found in this whole unschooling/parenting journey that my greatest
enemy can be my own expectations. My son is only four so I can't suggest
anything about a 13 year old, but I do know that sometimes there are
really exciting fun things to do out there and I'm looking forward to
them, they are such great opportunities, then Finn doesn't want to do them
for various reasons - too tired, wants to stay home and play, socially
anxious, whatever. Then I'm left managing my own disappointment, which
sometimes leads me to try to push/encourage, and truthfully, it never
works. Maybe part of letting your son make his decision is realizing that
YOU are sad about possibly missing this opportunity, you are mourning the
loss.
I have to over and over again try to see the world as a four year old, not
as an adult. As an adult I can see a lot of the advantages and
disadvantages, weigh them, and I'm in a mature enough place to tolerate
some bad in order to have some good. I think kids often can't see those
nuances, but that's okay. It's where they are and if we start imposing
our own judgements and values onto an experience we lose respect for their
perspective.
I don't know how to assist kids reaching outside their comfort zone. Finn
is a cautious kid and has a very well established comfort zone and a lot
of confidence about maintaining it. When I push it does not help him. I
have had to let go and let him come to things on his own. And when he
does, it's beautiful because he's SO proud of himself and SO happy. But
until then it's very hard to step back and I hope it will become easier
with some time.
The only practical suggestion I can come up with is to model stepping out
of your comfort zone yourself. Be honest when something is hard, scary,
uncomfortable for you to do. Take on new things you may not have. It
might actually lead to some fun, neat opportunities for you.
S.
enemy can be my own expectations. My son is only four so I can't suggest
anything about a 13 year old, but I do know that sometimes there are
really exciting fun things to do out there and I'm looking forward to
them, they are such great opportunities, then Finn doesn't want to do them
for various reasons - too tired, wants to stay home and play, socially
anxious, whatever. Then I'm left managing my own disappointment, which
sometimes leads me to try to push/encourage, and truthfully, it never
works. Maybe part of letting your son make his decision is realizing that
YOU are sad about possibly missing this opportunity, you are mourning the
loss.
I have to over and over again try to see the world as a four year old, not
as an adult. As an adult I can see a lot of the advantages and
disadvantages, weigh them, and I'm in a mature enough place to tolerate
some bad in order to have some good. I think kids often can't see those
nuances, but that's okay. It's where they are and if we start imposing
our own judgements and values onto an experience we lose respect for their
perspective.
I don't know how to assist kids reaching outside their comfort zone. Finn
is a cautious kid and has a very well established comfort zone and a lot
of confidence about maintaining it. When I push it does not help him. I
have had to let go and let him come to things on his own. And when he
does, it's beautiful because he's SO proud of himself and SO happy. But
until then it's very hard to step back and I hope it will become easier
with some time.
The only practical suggestion I can come up with is to model stepping out
of your comfort zone yourself. Be honest when something is hard, scary,
uncomfortable for you to do. Take on new things you may not have. It
might actually lead to some fun, neat opportunities for you.
S.
> All your answers have been really helpful as I think this thru.
> My biggest problem, I think , is deschooling myself. I have been
> considering all the things he will be "missing out" on. Since it is such
> an amazing trip and experience I am having trouble wrapping my head around
> just Not taking advantage of it.
>
> But, yes, his feelings about it are more important. I am butting up
> against the 'not respecting him' line. Thanks for helping me see that.
>
> So, for future events and such would you help me with - When to help him
> outside his comfort zone toward something that has a lot of fun
> potential. Sometimes we all need a nudge, don't we?
>
> Thank you all for so much!
> Michele
>
>
> ---
>
>
Michele
Sacha, That makes SO much sense. It is exactly what I needed to hear. Thank you. Seeing it thru his eyes makes all the difference - and respecting where his is now is Huge.
About the modeling, yes, I am doing that more and more. It has been helpful for my kids to see that some things aren't always easy for me but can be worth it.
About the modeling, yes, I am doing that more and more. It has been helpful for my kids to see that some things aren't always easy for me but can be worth it.
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jun 4, 2011, at 12:38 PM, Michele wrote:
It's okay if he doesn't know. (Which might mean he feels uncertain
about his own choices. Or he's not good at expressing his feelings.)
But in general the answer is: It depends.
Maybe it helps to imagine you only get a couple of failed "Just trust
me"s with kids before they start saying "Yeah, right."
Isn't it a whole lot better that he develop a deep trust in his own
instincts about what's right for him and what's not right? He will
regret choices he makes sometimes. That's part of learning. But he'll
learn more about himself each time he makes a choice.
So, while we've all experienced times when we were glad someone
pressured us into doing something, I don't think it's relationship
building to perceive people as all needing a nudge. It's better to
keep in mind that while you may know more about the world, your son
knows more about himself. It's better to focus on helping him do what
he enjoys rather than focus on what you believe will be good for him.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> So, for future events and such would you help me with - When to helpAsk him :-) Ask him how he'd like you to handle it in the future.
> him outside his comfort zone toward something that has a lot of fun
> potential.
It's okay if he doesn't know. (Which might mean he feels uncertain
about his own choices. Or he's not good at expressing his feelings.)
But in general the answer is: It depends.
Maybe it helps to imagine you only get a couple of failed "Just trust
me"s with kids before they start saying "Yeah, right."
> Sometimes we all need a nudge, don't we?Do you want your son to feel like he *needs* outsiders to push him?
Isn't it a whole lot better that he develop a deep trust in his own
instincts about what's right for him and what's not right? He will
regret choices he makes sometimes. That's part of learning. But he'll
learn more about himself each time he makes a choice.
So, while we've all experienced times when we were glad someone
pressured us into doing something, I don't think it's relationship
building to perceive people as all needing a nudge. It's better to
keep in mind that while you may know more about the world, your son
knows more about himself. It's better to focus on helping him do what
he enjoys rather than focus on what you believe will be good for him.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kristin
Have his other times away from home been fun for him? H's sounds flexible from your description...
I'm just a dabbler in homeschooling overall so take what I say with a grain of salt but personally I'd be very candid and asking him if he might regret not going if he hears about all te fun his friends had (or all the interesting things they learned/experiments they tried...whatever you think he'd enjoy most from the trip) and let him think about it. Also to remind him it's just a week and then he's home again, and he will know if he wants to do something like this again.
My daughter who is much younger loves swimming, we go twice a week for lessons and once every week or two as a family. Occasionally she doesn't want to go, but reminding her of her favorite things like her friends and learning to swim faster get her really excited to go again.
I don't think it sounds like you are putting pressure on him as if you were I think especially as a 13yo he would be fighting back if you were.
Hope he has fun whatever he decides!
Kristin
--
206-351-5748
http://www.KristinBennett.com
I'm just a dabbler in homeschooling overall so take what I say with a grain of salt but personally I'd be very candid and asking him if he might regret not going if he hears about all te fun his friends had (or all the interesting things they learned/experiments they tried...whatever you think he'd enjoy most from the trip) and let him think about it. Also to remind him it's just a week and then he's home again, and he will know if he wants to do something like this again.
My daughter who is much younger loves swimming, we go twice a week for lessons and once every week or two as a family. Occasionally she doesn't want to go, but reminding her of her favorite things like her friends and learning to swim faster get her really excited to go again.
I don't think it sounds like you are putting pressure on him as if you were I think especially as a 13yo he would be fighting back if you were.
Hope he has fun whatever he decides!
Kristin
--
206-351-5748
http://www.KristinBennett.com
On Jun 3, 2011, at 7:52 PM, "Michele" <michelewith3@...> wrote:
> Hi All,
> I have been a lurker for a long while and now have a question.
>
> Should/Can I encourage my son to try something without seeming like I trying to talk him into it or coerce him.
>
> The background is my 13 (almost 14) year old son won a HUGE annual science competition that is state wide. the winning team, in each age group, goes for a week long stay at the Wrigley Marine Institute on Catalina Island. They do amazing things - study with the scientists, kayaking, campfires - oh all kinds of fun stuff (my opinion I understand). So ds doesn't really want to go. Sort of apathetic. He says he will go if I want him to but he would prefer not to. His team mates are all going and they are pretty good friends. We talked about trying it for a few days and coming home ANYtime he wants. There are ferries that we can arrange. He has been away from home many times so it isn't fear in that area. We are both introverts so i made sure there is down time... i think i covered all the concerns.
> So, the real question is, how do I encourage him with out seeming like I am pushing him? Or do I let it go? I am thinking he might not realize all the cool stuff there will be to do. He says that yes, some of it sounds cool but there is a lot he doesn't care about. Kind of like the price for the cool stuff is too high.
> So I let it go right?
> (sorry for not proofreading - he is supposed to leave in 2 days and I am hoping to get some opinions right away. all this time I was assuming he was going until a couple days ago when he groaned at the mention of it and I asked him)
> Michele
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
"onskates" <onskates@...> wrote:
Sometimes parental excitement can get in the way, though, depending on the kid. It can seem like pressure to perform, or a parent wanting to live out her dreams through her child, or a parent seeing a potential future person rather than the real person in front of them.
One of the downsides of excitement and talk of "this wonderful opportunity" is that it can leave a kid with the sense that its a one time thing. That's less of an issue with a child who has been unschooled from the start than someone coming from school or homeschool. Long time unschoolers learn that opportunies don't have to be such big, scary things. Camp, a class, a volunteer opportunity, a job, college.... those generally aren't things that have to be grabbed with both hands Right Now Or Else.
Right - some people need to work things out verbally. Some people need lots and lots of reassurances before doing something new. But kids also need to know they can say "no" - they aren't powerless in the face of parental experience and enthusiasm. Finding that kind of balance is something that will depend a great deal on individual personalities.
---Meredith
> If any of my kids were in your child's position i would be so excited!***************
Sometimes parental excitement can get in the way, though, depending on the kid. It can seem like pressure to perform, or a parent wanting to live out her dreams through her child, or a parent seeing a potential future person rather than the real person in front of them.
One of the downsides of excitement and talk of "this wonderful opportunity" is that it can leave a kid with the sense that its a one time thing. That's less of an issue with a child who has been unschooled from the start than someone coming from school or homeschool. Long time unschoolers learn that opportunies don't have to be such big, scary things. Camp, a class, a volunteer opportunity, a job, college.... those generally aren't things that have to be grabbed with both hands Right Now Or Else.
>>My 12 year old daughter is very cautious about being out of her bounds, so to speak. She has a comfort level that in order to cross over she must talk about all the possible scenarios.********************
Right - some people need to work things out verbally. Some people need lots and lots of reassurances before doing something new. But kids also need to know they can say "no" - they aren't powerless in the face of parental experience and enthusiasm. Finding that kind of balance is something that will depend a great deal on individual personalities.
---Meredith
Schuyler
I have two children who would respond very differently to that. Simon would feel
pushed if I was talking about why he might want to go once he'd decided not to.
Linnaea would want me to talk it over with her more. I think a lot depends on
the personality of the child.
My first reaction to the post was Wow! I want to go to Catalina Island. And I
would totally regret not going. But I talked it over with Simon and he figured
if he didn't want to go he didn't want to go and he wouldn't really want to be
pressed to go. I figure Simon knows more about how he'd feel about something
than I do. It may be worth asking your child if they would regret not going. And
pressing nothing beyond that. At 13, almost 14, I bet he'd know if he'd feel
like he'd missed out on something if he didn't go.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: Kristin <strawberrytech@...>
I'm just a dabbler in homeschooling overall so take what I say with a grain of
salt but personally I'd be very candid and asking him if he might regret not
going if he hears about all te fun his friends had (or all the interesting
things they learned/experiments they tried...whatever you think he'd enjoy most
from the trip) and let him think about it. Also to remind him it's just a week
and then he's home again, and he will know if he wants to do something like this
again.
My daughter who is much younger loves swimming, we go twice a week for lessons
and once every week or two as a family. Occasionally she doesn't want to go, but
reminding her of her favorite things like her friends and learning to swim
faster get her really excited to go again.
I don't think it sounds like you are putting pressure on him as if you were I
think especially as a 13yo he would be fighting back if you were.
Hope he has fun whatever he decides!
Kristin
--
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pushed if I was talking about why he might want to go once he'd decided not to.
Linnaea would want me to talk it over with her more. I think a lot depends on
the personality of the child.
My first reaction to the post was Wow! I want to go to Catalina Island. And I
would totally regret not going. But I talked it over with Simon and he figured
if he didn't want to go he didn't want to go and he wouldn't really want to be
pressed to go. I figure Simon knows more about how he'd feel about something
than I do. It may be worth asking your child if they would regret not going. And
pressing nothing beyond that. At 13, almost 14, I bet he'd know if he'd feel
like he'd missed out on something if he didn't go.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: Kristin <strawberrytech@...>
I'm just a dabbler in homeschooling overall so take what I say with a grain of
salt but personally I'd be very candid and asking him if he might regret not
going if he hears about all te fun his friends had (or all the interesting
things they learned/experiments they tried...whatever you think he'd enjoy most
from the trip) and let him think about it. Also to remind him it's just a week
and then he's home again, and he will know if he wants to do something like this
again.
My daughter who is much younger loves swimming, we go twice a week for lessons
and once every week or two as a family. Occasionally she doesn't want to go, but
reminding her of her favorite things like her friends and learning to swim
faster get her really excited to go again.
I don't think it sounds like you are putting pressure on him as if you were I
think especially as a 13yo he would be fighting back if you were.
Hope he has fun whatever he decides!
Kristin
--
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
Kristin <strawberrytech@...> wrote:
Not necessarily. There are plenty of "good kids" out there who don't fight back but push down their needs and wants, hopes and dreams in the face of parental encouragement. There's a lot of personality and family dynamics involved.
The original post said both that he's been away from home before and that he looked over the schedule and decided the minuses outweighed the plusses. It seems a bit presumtuous to try to over-rule that kind of thoughtful analysis with "its just a week".
---Meredith
>> I don't think it sounds like you are putting pressure on him as if you were I think especially as a 13yo he would be fighting back if you were.******************
Not necessarily. There are plenty of "good kids" out there who don't fight back but push down their needs and wants, hopes and dreams in the face of parental encouragement. There's a lot of personality and family dynamics involved.
>>Also to remind him it's just a week and then he's home again, and he will know if he wants to do something like this again.****************
The original post said both that he's been away from home before and that he looked over the schedule and decided the minuses outweighed the plusses. It seems a bit presumtuous to try to over-rule that kind of thoughtful analysis with "its just a week".
---Meredith
plaidpanties666
"Michele" <michelewith3@...> wrote:
If he wants to go kayaking or canoeing, take him - rent a boat for an afternoon. If he doesn't want to canoe, but wants to wade around in streams and count snails or catch fish or whatever, find him more ways to do that. It doesn't have to be some big all-or-nothing package deal.
That's one of the ways school infects the way you think - because school tends to set up everything in terms of all-or-nothing, where you can't ever get the good without wading through the bad. Its wonderful that your son can look at the schedule and say "not worth it" - that's powerful.
School or some other cultural meme sets up an idea that Every opportunity Has To be grabbed with both hands right now. That's not a good thing - it undermines people's ability to make choices. Failure to catch hold of every passing opportunity ends up being seen as Failure on a grand, existential level. Its part of what drives parents to over-commit kids to the point of breakdown - or themselves for that matter.
Unschooling depends on setting kids up to make thoughtful choices rather than boxing kids into situations where there's only one "right" choice. Sometimes that means they say no to "good opportunities" but that doesn't have to be a dead-end or failure. It can be another kind of opportunity, a chance to look for other avenues, to think outside the box and help your kids get what they Really want and need, on their own schedule, in their own way.
I want my kids to feel secure in their own ability to make decisions - but for them to do that, they need to actually make some. That includes making some "bad" decisions while they're still young enough to have a back-up: Me! This might not be a "bad" decision, though - if he were to go but be frustrated by all the time wasted doing things he didn't care about, That would be a bad decision. I'd respect his analysis and look for more ways to offer him what He values.
---Meredith
>I have been considering all the things he will be "missing out" on.But he doesn't Have to "miss out" - you're painting things in black and white rather than looking for ways to expand his world. What parts of that camp interest him? How can you give him more of Those things?
If he wants to go kayaking or canoeing, take him - rent a boat for an afternoon. If he doesn't want to canoe, but wants to wade around in streams and count snails or catch fish or whatever, find him more ways to do that. It doesn't have to be some big all-or-nothing package deal.
That's one of the ways school infects the way you think - because school tends to set up everything in terms of all-or-nothing, where you can't ever get the good without wading through the bad. Its wonderful that your son can look at the schedule and say "not worth it" - that's powerful.
School or some other cultural meme sets up an idea that Every opportunity Has To be grabbed with both hands right now. That's not a good thing - it undermines people's ability to make choices. Failure to catch hold of every passing opportunity ends up being seen as Failure on a grand, existential level. Its part of what drives parents to over-commit kids to the point of breakdown - or themselves for that matter.
Unschooling depends on setting kids up to make thoughtful choices rather than boxing kids into situations where there's only one "right" choice. Sometimes that means they say no to "good opportunities" but that doesn't have to be a dead-end or failure. It can be another kind of opportunity, a chance to look for other avenues, to think outside the box and help your kids get what they Really want and need, on their own schedule, in their own way.
>>Sometimes we all need a nudge, don't we?Do we? That's one of those truisms that can get you into a lot of trouble. Nudging leads pretty frequently to kids who either resist being nudged blindly, and/or follow it blindly. Kids used to being nudged can resit parental nudging only to turn around and respond to peer nudging - and its easy to see a lot of stereotypical teenage behavior in that light.
I want my kids to feel secure in their own ability to make decisions - but for them to do that, they need to actually make some. That includes making some "bad" decisions while they're still young enough to have a back-up: Me! This might not be a "bad" decision, though - if he were to go but be frustrated by all the time wasted doing things he didn't care about, That would be a bad decision. I'd respect his analysis and look for more ways to offer him what He values.
---Meredith
[email protected]
How is staying at home with a loving family doing what you want "missing out" on anything?
This is a "he should go to school" line that comes up often. "Think of all the wonderful things he'll miss out on."
Like what? Getting up early and doing everything on someone else's schedule?
Nance
This is a "he should go to school" line that comes up often. "Think of all the wonderful things he'll miss out on."
Like what? Getting up early and doing everything on someone else's schedule?
Nance
--- In [email protected], "plaidpanties666" <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
>
> "Michele" <michelewith3@> wrote:
> >I have been considering all the things he will be "missing out" on.
>
>
JJ
Meredith wrote:
Our unschooled daughter (just turned 21) become a top college scholar, graduated this spring from a major university with a perfect 4.0 GPA and a Phi Beta Kappa key, accepted to the grad school of her choice for fall, hired on campus in her dream job for summer.
But here's the point: she also has what the clinical psychologist identified after two days of testing as a "coding disorder" in manipulating numbers in her short-term memory. It means she can't do arithmetic in her head, see the beautiful patterns in math and visualize multistep operations to make sense of them. She memorized a couple of isolated tricks like how to figure a restaurant tip but she simply can't understand why they work in any larger context of math competence. She never could have passed the most basic school math "opportunity" nor score even passably on any standardized tests like SAT, ACT, community college placement and the GRE.
So Meredith's advice applies to math-through-algebra required by school curriculum even done at home by well-meaning parents -- for my daughter it would have interfered with everything wonderful to force that "opportunity" on her. It would have hurt her not only as a roadblock to going on to higher education but by causing her to doubt her own mind.
It almost did anyway. I knew School requires math through algebra so thought she needed that, wanted it for her, kept trying to open her up to it. I encouraged and modeled and talked her into several "opportunities" and tried to make them pay off for her. Worse than useless:
http://misedjj.wordpress.com/2008/03/27/well-that-explains-a-lot/
I almost ruined it for her, even unschooling, but not quite. :)
Turned out she knew her own mind better than I did even though she didn't "know" what she knew. So what she needed me for was finding opportunities to trust and protect and honor that.
> It doesn't have to be some big all-or-nothing package deal.Underscore, exclamation point!
> That's one of the ways school infects the way you think - because >school tends to set up everything in terms of all-or-nothing, where >you can't ever get the good without wading through the bad.
Our unschooled daughter (just turned 21) become a top college scholar, graduated this spring from a major university with a perfect 4.0 GPA and a Phi Beta Kappa key, accepted to the grad school of her choice for fall, hired on campus in her dream job for summer.
But here's the point: she also has what the clinical psychologist identified after two days of testing as a "coding disorder" in manipulating numbers in her short-term memory. It means she can't do arithmetic in her head, see the beautiful patterns in math and visualize multistep operations to make sense of them. She memorized a couple of isolated tricks like how to figure a restaurant tip but she simply can't understand why they work in any larger context of math competence. She never could have passed the most basic school math "opportunity" nor score even passably on any standardized tests like SAT, ACT, community college placement and the GRE.
> School or some other cultural meme sets up an idea that Every opportunity Has To be grabbed with both hands right now. That's not a good thing - it undermines people's ability to make choices. Failure to catch hold of every passing opportunity ends up being seen as Failure on a grand, existential level. It's part of what drives parents to over-commit kids to the point of breakdown - or themselves for that matter.Exactly. School math is required as the only right choice for every student. Also math as a school subject teaches everyone to find the same right answers or else fail.
>
> Unschooling depends on setting kids up to make thoughtful choices rather than boxing kids into situations where there's only one "right" choice.
So Meredith's advice applies to math-through-algebra required by school curriculum even done at home by well-meaning parents -- for my daughter it would have interfered with everything wonderful to force that "opportunity" on her. It would have hurt her not only as a roadblock to going on to higher education but by causing her to doubt her own mind.
It almost did anyway. I knew School requires math through algebra so thought she needed that, wanted it for her, kept trying to open her up to it. I encouraged and modeled and talked her into several "opportunities" and tried to make them pay off for her. Worse than useless:
http://misedjj.wordpress.com/2008/03/27/well-that-explains-a-lot/
I almost ruined it for her, even unschooling, but not quite. :)
Turned out she knew her own mind better than I did even though she didn't "know" what she knew. So what she needed me for was finding opportunities to trust and protect and honor that.
Michele
*******I'd respect his analysis and look for more ways to offer him what He values****
I wasn't looking at that clearly. I Can give him more of what he thought was interesting. Without all the 'not worth' it stuff that went with it. I think the missing out on part were a couple of things I couldnt very easily do, like the bioluminescent night dive with the scientists. But I can find ways to get close.
I do appreciate the comments about not having to grab every opportunity that comes his way. Actually everyone has given me great things to think about. I appreciate all the help.
I wasn't looking at that clearly. I Can give him more of what he thought was interesting. Without all the 'not worth' it stuff that went with it. I think the missing out on part were a couple of things I couldnt very easily do, like the bioluminescent night dive with the scientists. But I can find ways to get close.
I do appreciate the comments about not having to grab every opportunity that comes his way. Actually everyone has given me great things to think about. I appreciate all the help.
>
Michele
<<<<<< seeing a potential future person rather than the
real person in front of them. <<<<<<<<<
OK, now that I have finished tearing up...... Thank you for that message. Really Embarrassed here but I can see, after contemplating what I thought he would miss out on, was that I want him to have more friends. I thought he would get really close to his teammates on this trip, and be happy. Correction - Happier. But I have to look at the person in front of me. He is happy and very much a loner sort. I better check my thougths on this one!
Again, thank you all for your support.
Michele
real person in front of them. <<<<<<<<<
OK, now that I have finished tearing up...... Thank you for that message. Really Embarrassed here but I can see, after contemplating what I thought he would miss out on, was that I want him to have more friends. I thought he would get really close to his teammates on this trip, and be happy. Correction - Happier. But I have to look at the person in front of me. He is happy and very much a loner sort. I better check my thougths on this one!
Again, thank you all for your support.
Michele
hanna
Dear Michele and everyone posting on this topic.
I've been reading some very thoughtful replies.
The main thing to learn is: it is not important if he goes or not. There are so many things in today's society, screaming us to buy to get, or to do. Some people do everything they can find to do, thinking it will make them better, or that they will get more. But they don't get more by doing more, they get less, and they feel empty.
How great of your son at his age, being able to think "outside of the box" and not having the pressing need to go to the semi-science meetings. Many great minds of the past are of the "loner sort." So don't worry, and know that he has everything he needs to grow and develop in love and beauty.
Hanna
I've been reading some very thoughtful replies.
The main thing to learn is: it is not important if he goes or not. There are so many things in today's society, screaming us to buy to get, or to do. Some people do everything they can find to do, thinking it will make them better, or that they will get more. But they don't get more by doing more, they get less, and they feel empty.
How great of your son at his age, being able to think "outside of the box" and not having the pressing need to go to the semi-science meetings. Many great minds of the past are of the "loner sort." So don't worry, and know that he has everything he needs to grow and develop in love and beauty.
Hanna