Ideas/advice?? Media questions..
erinanddavey
Mom to 3DS...14, 10, 2. We have been homeschooling 6 years...dropping bits here and there and working towards fully unschooling.
In short Ds, 14, pulled out of school beginning of third grade and Ds,done after 2nd (his choice to go and be done). Husband finally on board with no limits for media...t/v, comp, etc... We are both on the same page and we just say yes when they ask and make no issue when they do not and just go on.
Now, here is the issue. Ds, 14, becomes very aggressive and rude after long uses and is so unwilling to relinquish use if someone else has been waiting. Example, ds, 10, wanted to watch a movie on the tv and waited patiently for 2 hours for his brother to finish up...going into hour #3 not so patient (14 year old had already been using for 2 hrs before 10 year old started waiting). Ds, 14, was verbally abusive to him and even shoved him a couple of times because he needed to just finish "this level", which turned into quite a few levels. This is just one example of many that happen.
Here is what we have tried and our media set up: We have 2 tvs with two game systems which can not be swapped out due to jimmy rigging and the tvs are two different sizes, and one computer. The 360, 14s favorite, which is also the big tv and sometimes 10 year old wants to watch movie on big tv. He is usually content to watch on smaller tv, but was really looking forward to the big tv with example given. We can not afford to buy any more tvs, game systems or same games for each system. We have tried coming up with compromises, helping facilitate conversations between the two, letting them work it out...but in a nutshell, the household is really becoming quite a frustrating, negative feeling place to be.
I would love to hear all input, but would really LOVE to hear from people that started the process hen the kids were older kids and w/siblings.
Thanks!
...Erin
In short Ds, 14, pulled out of school beginning of third grade and Ds,done after 2nd (his choice to go and be done). Husband finally on board with no limits for media...t/v, comp, etc... We are both on the same page and we just say yes when they ask and make no issue when they do not and just go on.
Now, here is the issue. Ds, 14, becomes very aggressive and rude after long uses and is so unwilling to relinquish use if someone else has been waiting. Example, ds, 10, wanted to watch a movie on the tv and waited patiently for 2 hours for his brother to finish up...going into hour #3 not so patient (14 year old had already been using for 2 hrs before 10 year old started waiting). Ds, 14, was verbally abusive to him and even shoved him a couple of times because he needed to just finish "this level", which turned into quite a few levels. This is just one example of many that happen.
Here is what we have tried and our media set up: We have 2 tvs with two game systems which can not be swapped out due to jimmy rigging and the tvs are two different sizes, and one computer. The 360, 14s favorite, which is also the big tv and sometimes 10 year old wants to watch movie on big tv. He is usually content to watch on smaller tv, but was really looking forward to the big tv with example given. We can not afford to buy any more tvs, game systems or same games for each system. We have tried coming up with compromises, helping facilitate conversations between the two, letting them work it out...but in a nutshell, the household is really becoming quite a frustrating, negative feeling place to be.
I would love to hear all input, but would really LOVE to hear from people that started the process hen the kids were older kids and w/siblings.
Thanks!
...Erin
plaidpanties666
"erinanddavey" <e_mckinney@...> wrote:
Two hours isn't very long! If he's having to give up what he's doing just when he's finally gotten settled in, no wonder he's getting cranky on a regular basis. His "turn" needs to be long - six hours, all day, whatever lets him feel "full".
If he's getting grumpy after longer periods of time (four hours or more) I'd look at the need for snacks and movement. You can bring him snacks. You can also help him find ways to get up and move while things are loading or during natural breaks in a show or movie.
Can you trade in that big tv for two smaller tvs? Maybe one that lets you play multiple games? Used tvs aren't that costly, especially if they aren't hooked in to something like a satellite dish. Limited resources can make for a lot of conflict.
---Meredith
>> Now, here is the issue. Ds, 14, becomes very aggressive and rude after long uses and is so unwilling to relinquish use if someone else has been waiting. Example, ds, 10, wanted to watch a movie on the tv and waited patiently for 2 hours...***************
Two hours isn't very long! If he's having to give up what he's doing just when he's finally gotten settled in, no wonder he's getting cranky on a regular basis. His "turn" needs to be long - six hours, all day, whatever lets him feel "full".
If he's getting grumpy after longer periods of time (four hours or more) I'd look at the need for snacks and movement. You can bring him snacks. You can also help him find ways to get up and move while things are loading or during natural breaks in a show or movie.
Can you trade in that big tv for two smaller tvs? Maybe one that lets you play multiple games? Used tvs aren't that costly, especially if they aren't hooked in to something like a satellite dish. Limited resources can make for a lot of conflict.
---Meredith
IN Mom
Hello Erin! We had a very similar situation going on here last year, and this group gave us some excellent advice. Just as background, my kids are DD11, DD10, and DS8, and we've been sliding over from academic unschooling toward radical unschooling for the last couple of years.
When it becomes a family priority, you *will* find ways to afford more game systems and/or TVs. We talked as a family about our limited resources and how we could allocate them to get more computers. We suggested giving up an unschooler gathering, skipping our annual trip to see grandparents in Florida, having the kids work in our family business so we all made more money, reducing the grocery budget, one adult taking a freelance job, selling off outgrown toys on craigslist, etc.
In our case, each of the kids decided to shell out their life savings to buy themselves laptops or desktop computers. DD10 was still short on money, but she worked off the debt by taking pet-sitting jobs and selling a cage she no longer needed.
So, did the problems disappear once the competition for games was eliminated? Believe it or not, they did gradually fade away. It took a few months for the communication patterns to change and for the younger kids to forgive the hurts from their older sister. But now, 8 months later, the kids are so much more friendly and helpful to each other than ever before. It's like they are a different family. Naturally, there have been other family shifts during that time, but the gist of all of them is to provide for the kids' and adults' needs and desires. Regardless of how difficult that seems at first.
Good luck!
Laura
> Now, here is the issue. Ds, 14, becomes very aggressive and rude after long uses and is so unwilling to relinquish use if someone else has been waiting.This is exactly what our oldest did. I agree with Meredith that 2 hours does not seem like long to a kid playing a video game. Mine have been known to spend 15 hours straight on Pixie Hollow! The solution is simply to make more game systems or computers available.
> We can not afford to buy any more tvs, game systems or same games for each system. We have tried coming up with compromises, helping facilitate conversations between the two, letting them work it out...but in a nutshell, the household is really becoming quite a frustrating, negative feeling place to be.For us, unschooling means meeting the kids' needs where they are right now. Your kids are making it pretty clear that what they want/need at this time is more access to games and media.
When it becomes a family priority, you *will* find ways to afford more game systems and/or TVs. We talked as a family about our limited resources and how we could allocate them to get more computers. We suggested giving up an unschooler gathering, skipping our annual trip to see grandparents in Florida, having the kids work in our family business so we all made more money, reducing the grocery budget, one adult taking a freelance job, selling off outgrown toys on craigslist, etc.
In our case, each of the kids decided to shell out their life savings to buy themselves laptops or desktop computers. DD10 was still short on money, but she worked off the debt by taking pet-sitting jobs and selling a cage she no longer needed.
So, did the problems disappear once the competition for games was eliminated? Believe it or not, they did gradually fade away. It took a few months for the communication patterns to change and for the younger kids to forgive the hurts from their older sister. But now, 8 months later, the kids are so much more friendly and helpful to each other than ever before. It's like they are a different family. Naturally, there have been other family shifts during that time, but the gist of all of them is to provide for the kids' and adults' needs and desires. Regardless of how difficult that seems at first.
Good luck!
Laura
The Coffee Goddess
> We can not afford to buy any more tvs, game systems or same games for eachWe have found TV's on freecycle. Often. We currently have more tv's than we
>system. We have tried coming up with compromises, helping facilitate
>conversations between the two, letting them work it out...but in a nutshell,
>the household is really becoming quite a frustrating,>
have rooms and we're taking the extras to Goodwill. Check the free section of
Craigslist, too.
Dana
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
TVs can be had for little or no money. Consider them a homeschooling/unschooling necessity.
You don't have to get one for every room like we did but it's an option. :)
Nance
You don't have to get one for every room like we did but it's an option. :)
Nance
--- In [email protected], The Coffee Goddess <hoffmanwilson@...> wrote:
>
> > We can not afford to buy any more tvs, game systems or same games for each
> >system. We have tried coming up with compromises, helping facilitate
> >conversations between the two, letting them work it out...but in a nutshell,
> >the household is really becoming quite a frustrating,>
>
> We have found TV's on freecycle. Often. We currently have more tv's than we
> have rooms and we're taking the extras to Goodwill. Check the free section of
> Craigslist, too.
>
> Dana
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
erinanddavey
Thank you for all input and advice! Some additional thoughts, possible questions....
First, I did not communicate clearly, older son was going into 5th hour of playing and middle son was going into 3rd hour of waiting. Also, older son had played all night long (and many days prior) on the same tv and middle son just wanted some use of that tv. We are really, really trying to meet needs, but an addtional tv, for now, is not an option due to finances and space issues (long term construction ). With that being said, isn't their validity in trying to find common ground and understanding within the environment/resources available?
The oldest is the media hound, the younger two are good with snippets here or there and are amazingly accommodating to the oldest by utilizing the other tv or the computer. However, once in a while they would like to use the bigger tv (which is older, picture not as good as the newer tv, but you know how kids get attached!) and it is these once and whiles that send the older over the edge.
Are his needs any more important than the others? I don't think so and he has just as much access to the other tv and the computer. I wonder if it is just a power issue on his part a stretching of his "wings", so to speak? And if so, with continual tweaking and modification and discussion it will work itself out. Now I feel I am just rambling. I know it will work out, I read it throughout the lists I read.... :)
First, I did not communicate clearly, older son was going into 5th hour of playing and middle son was going into 3rd hour of waiting. Also, older son had played all night long (and many days prior) on the same tv and middle son just wanted some use of that tv. We are really, really trying to meet needs, but an addtional tv, for now, is not an option due to finances and space issues (long term construction ). With that being said, isn't their validity in trying to find common ground and understanding within the environment/resources available?
The oldest is the media hound, the younger two are good with snippets here or there and are amazingly accommodating to the oldest by utilizing the other tv or the computer. However, once in a while they would like to use the bigger tv (which is older, picture not as good as the newer tv, but you know how kids get attached!) and it is these once and whiles that send the older over the edge.
Are his needs any more important than the others? I don't think so and he has just as much access to the other tv and the computer. I wonder if it is just a power issue on his part a stretching of his "wings", so to speak? And if so, with continual tweaking and modification and discussion it will work itself out. Now I feel I am just rambling. I know it will work out, I read it throughout the lists I read.... :)
plaidpanties666
"erinanddavey" <e_mckinney@...> wrote:
Try thinking of it this way - if he was passionate about playing the violin and your other kids were kind of so-so, sometimes liking to play but not all the time, you wouldn't expect him to share his nice violin. If he was passionate about fencing, you wouldn't expect him to share his foils and safety gear. If he was passionate about bicycling... do you see where I'm going with this? The problem is that its something you deem of lesser value - maybe without realizing it - and that's clouding your understanding. Geez, kid, its just a violin, why can't your siblings play with it too?
---Meredith
>> Are his needs any more important than the others? I don't think so*************
Try thinking of it this way - if he was passionate about playing the violin and your other kids were kind of so-so, sometimes liking to play but not all the time, you wouldn't expect him to share his nice violin. If he was passionate about fencing, you wouldn't expect him to share his foils and safety gear. If he was passionate about bicycling... do you see where I'm going with this? The problem is that its something you deem of lesser value - maybe without realizing it - and that's clouding your understanding. Geez, kid, its just a violin, why can't your siblings play with it too?
---Meredith
[email protected]
Yes. So why don't you get another cheap/free TV or two and let go of trying to control TV watching?
You are the one with control here. Not the children. When it is within their power to buy a TV or renovate a house or otherwise be in charge of how money and space are allocated, they may choose differently. But right now they have a need and you could meet it but choose not to. Choose differently.
Nance
You are the one with control here. Not the children. When it is within their power to buy a TV or renovate a house or otherwise be in charge of how money and space are allocated, they may choose differently. But right now they have a need and you could meet it but choose not to. Choose differently.
Nance
--- In [email protected], "erinanddavey" <e_mckinney@...> wrote:
With that being said, isn't their validity in trying to find common ground and understanding within the environment/ resources available?
erinanddavey
Ruth, that is a fantastic simile! It also helps me to put it more into perspective of where I am coming from.... If the other kids had an interest in something the older child is/has been passionate about and at the time we were able to provide the resource for the older at the time but can not provide the same resource for the youngers, for now...would it not be just as important to come up with some way to figure out a way to use what we had to find a middle ground so that the youngers needs are met as well? We are just not able to bring in another "anything" at this time regardless if it a tv, video system, pack of cards, instrument...etc. So, how do I find the middle ground with what we have now.
--- In [email protected], "plaidpanties666" <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
>
> "erinanddavey" <e_mckinney@> wrote:
> >> Are his needs any more important than the others? I don't think so
> *************
>
> Try thinking of it this way - if he was passionate about playing the violin and your other kids were kind of so-so, sometimes liking to play but not all the time, you wouldn't expect him to share his nice violin. If he was passionate about fencing, you wouldn't expect him to share his foils and safety gear. If he was passionate about bicycling... do you see where I'm going with this? The problem is that its something you deem of lesser value - maybe without realizing it - and that's clouding your understanding. Geez, kid, its just a violin, why can't your siblings play with it too?
>
> ---Meredith
>
[email protected]
You can't. You can draw the line you have chosen to draw and live with the consequences. Or you can look more closely at why you feel the need to draw this particular line.
Nance
Nance
--- In [email protected], "erinanddavey" <e_mckinney@...> wrote:
>
> Ruth, that is a fantastic simile! It also helps me to put it more into perspective of where I am coming from.... If the other kids had an interest in something the older child is/has been passionate about and at the time we were able to provide the resource for the older at the time but can not provide the same resource for the youngers, for now...would it not be just as important to come up with some way to figure out a way to use what we had to find a middle ground so that the youngers needs are met as well? We are just not able to bring in another "anything" at this time regardless if it a tv, video system, pack of cards, instrument...etc. So, how do I find the middle ground with what we have now.
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "plaidpanties666" <plaidpanties666@> wrote:
> >
> > "erinanddavey" <e_mckinney@> wrote:
> > >> Are his needs any more important than the others? I don't think so
> > *************
> >
> > Try thinking of it this way - if he was passionate about playing the violin and your other kids were kind of so-so, sometimes liking to play but not all the time, you wouldn't expect him to share his nice violin. If he was passionate about fencing, you wouldn't expect him to share his foils and safety gear. If he was passionate about bicycling... do you see where I'm going with this? The problem is that its something you deem of lesser value - maybe without realizing it - and that's clouding your understanding. Geez, kid, its just a violin, why can't your siblings play with it too?
> >
> > ---Meredith
> >
>
erinanddavey
(Sorry I meant Meredith...not sure where the "Ruth" came from....)
"You can't. You can draw the line you have chosen to draw and live with the consequences. Or you can look more closely at why you feel the need to draw this particular line."
Without listing our life story, but in a nutshell: We may have started out with the construction quite a few years ago, but since then we have had a major accident w/brain damage, job loss, and the list goes on... so, we are on survival mode. Meaning that if it does not feed us, shelter us, clothe us... we do not buy it. So yes, this particular line has been drawn out of necessity. We have sold what we can (have worked on keeping tv, game systems, and computer because the kids requested..), turned in jars of coins to pay mortgage and buy groceries. We do not have internet, cable, or memberships to anything. The game systems and one of the tvs were gifts and the other one was bought prior to the beginning of construction (but with parts of the home torn apart...there is no space for additional screens, even if free). We are not in a position to resolve the issue by "just getting...". Nor can we give up any vacations(those are just wistful dreams), or cut back any more on groceries, choose not too put gas in the car (we can, but then a job comes under jeopardy), or just not get medications.
It just feels like from some of these responses and reading other threads that so many issues become resolved by just going out and buying and/or getting something. I can respect that, if you are able to, but it seems like one can really feel that they are lacking in meeting their child's needs as a parent, if their situation does not allow such an easy solution.
It may sound like I am being obstinate, but I have not only been taking it all in, but sharing it with the boys, who have been really following the exchange and become more proactive in their ideas of figuring out our situation! So this exchange alone has been a huge help and bonus....so thank you to all honesty and responses!!
...Erin
"You can't. You can draw the line you have chosen to draw and live with the consequences. Or you can look more closely at why you feel the need to draw this particular line."
Without listing our life story, but in a nutshell: We may have started out with the construction quite a few years ago, but since then we have had a major accident w/brain damage, job loss, and the list goes on... so, we are on survival mode. Meaning that if it does not feed us, shelter us, clothe us... we do not buy it. So yes, this particular line has been drawn out of necessity. We have sold what we can (have worked on keeping tv, game systems, and computer because the kids requested..), turned in jars of coins to pay mortgage and buy groceries. We do not have internet, cable, or memberships to anything. The game systems and one of the tvs were gifts and the other one was bought prior to the beginning of construction (but with parts of the home torn apart...there is no space for additional screens, even if free). We are not in a position to resolve the issue by "just getting...". Nor can we give up any vacations(those are just wistful dreams), or cut back any more on groceries, choose not too put gas in the car (we can, but then a job comes under jeopardy), or just not get medications.
It just feels like from some of these responses and reading other threads that so many issues become resolved by just going out and buying and/or getting something. I can respect that, if you are able to, but it seems like one can really feel that they are lacking in meeting their child's needs as a parent, if their situation does not allow such an easy solution.
It may sound like I am being obstinate, but I have not only been taking it all in, but sharing it with the boys, who have been really following the exchange and become more proactive in their ideas of figuring out our situation! So this exchange alone has been a huge help and bonus....so thank you to all honesty and responses!!
...Erin
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
There are always TV for free on Craigslist in my town. There are also computers that go for ery little that some of
those places that fix computer sell,
Just today I took my sons computer to get a video card upgrade o he can play a specific game and they had computers ( complete) for $128.
Not computers that you could game hard on it but maybe some flash games younger kids like to play when they are young.
Maybe try to get some free TV's and give them to the kids so each has his own TV??
I know it would be super hard for my gamer son to give up his computer to others. He sometime, when I need. let me and his dad use his computer and is super nice about it every time but he has never had to do it on a daily basis for very long.
Alex Polikowsky
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
those places that fix computer sell,
Just today I took my sons computer to get a video card upgrade o he can play a specific game and they had computers ( complete) for $128.
Not computers that you could game hard on it but maybe some flash games younger kids like to play when they are young.
Maybe try to get some free TV's and give them to the kids so each has his own TV??
I know it would be super hard for my gamer son to give up his computer to others. He sometime, when I need. let me and his dad use his computer and is super nice about it every time but he has never had to do it on a daily basis for very long.
Alex Polikowsky
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
otherstar
From: erinanddavey
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 4:23 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Ideas/advice?? Media questions..
I don't have unlimited resources so I have to work around natural limitations. Sometimes, that requires me to throw out conventional wisdom and conventional ideas. If I feel like I don't have the physical space for something, I start thinking about what I can move or rearrange. I ask the kids. I ask my spouse. I go online and look for ideas. I was watching a show the other day and a professional organizer was showing how she could live in 100 or 200 square feet. I don't remember the specifics but she was able to have a lot of stuff in that small space. I am wondering if you could go online and do some research about how to optimize the space that you do have. You say that you don't have enough room for any more screens even if they were free. Would it be possible to stack them and have children use headphones? We have come up against several different limits but together we have found workable solutions. The solutions may not be what we had originally hoped for but they are workable.
Also, find small things to do that make YOU feel better. I know that it is hard for me to be creative and giving when I feel like I am lacking. Perhaps you will be able to think of more creative solutions if you can find small ways to build yourself up.
Connie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 4:23 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Ideas/advice?? Media questions..
>>>It just feels like from some of these responses and reading other threads that so many issues become resolved by just going out and buying and/or getting something. I can respect that, if you are able to, but it seems like one can really feel that they are lacking in meeting their child's needs as a parent, if their situation does not allow such an easy solution.<<<I haven't really been following this thread so I don't know the specifics of the situation. This came across and caught my attention. It sounds like you are in a tough situation. From this post alone, it sounds like you are frustrated and feel like you are backed in a corner. I find that when I feel backed in a corner it helps to stop and breathe.
I don't have unlimited resources so I have to work around natural limitations. Sometimes, that requires me to throw out conventional wisdom and conventional ideas. If I feel like I don't have the physical space for something, I start thinking about what I can move or rearrange. I ask the kids. I ask my spouse. I go online and look for ideas. I was watching a show the other day and a professional organizer was showing how she could live in 100 or 200 square feet. I don't remember the specifics but she was able to have a lot of stuff in that small space. I am wondering if you could go online and do some research about how to optimize the space that you do have. You say that you don't have enough room for any more screens even if they were free. Would it be possible to stack them and have children use headphones? We have come up against several different limits but together we have found workable solutions. The solutions may not be what we had originally hoped for but they are workable.
Also, find small things to do that make YOU feel better. I know that it is hard for me to be creative and giving when I feel like I am lacking. Perhaps you will be able to think of more creative solutions if you can find small ways to build yourself up.
Connie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
JJ
Then try thinking of it THIS way -- making an older child share his one big passion because the younger kids are so-so about it but have no passion of their own, doesn't help any of them get what you really want for each and for all.
My dad (not an unschooler but in survival mode with not even chewing gum money) told me as the oldest of three there was nothing less equal or fair than treating unequals equally. So as big-screen gameplayers, your children are not equals. And you wouldn't have that as a goal, to force a false equality on them in that sense. What you DO want is to treat each child's passion equally or equivalently -- to help them find it and engage it, whatever that means. Ideally each child will support the others' passions whether they are similar or wildly different.
Schooling is about subdividing and standardizing and competition for scarce resources. Unschooling is the opposite of that in every imaginable way. It's about multiplying and diverging and synergy and systems theory. It really does depend on changing your mindset first, not the tv schedule.
My dad (not an unschooler but in survival mode with not even chewing gum money) told me as the oldest of three there was nothing less equal or fair than treating unequals equally. So as big-screen gameplayers, your children are not equals. And you wouldn't have that as a goal, to force a false equality on them in that sense. What you DO want is to treat each child's passion equally or equivalently -- to help them find it and engage it, whatever that means. Ideally each child will support the others' passions whether they are similar or wildly different.
Schooling is about subdividing and standardizing and competition for scarce resources. Unschooling is the opposite of that in every imaginable way. It's about multiplying and diverging and synergy and systems theory. It really does depend on changing your mindset first, not the tv schedule.
>
> .... If the other kids had an interest in something the older child is/has been passionate about and at the time we were able to provide the resource for the older at the time but can not provide the same resource for the youngers, for now...would it not be just as important to come up with some way to figure out a way to use what we had to find a middle ground so that the youngers needs are met as well? We are just not able to bring in another "anything" at this time regardless if it a tv, video system, pack of cards, instrument...etc. So, how do I find the middle ground with what we have now.
>
> >
> > Try thinking of it this way - if he was passionate about playing the violin and your other kids were kind of so-so, sometimes liking to play but not all the time, you wouldn't expect him to share his nice violin. If he was passionate about fencing, you wouldn't expect him to share his foils and safety gear. If he was passionate about bicycling... do you see where I'm going with this? The problem is that its something you deem of lesser value - maybe without realizing it - and that's clouding your understanding. Geez, kid, its just a violin, why can't your siblings play with it too?
> >
> > ---Meredith
> >
>
[email protected]
Several of us have mentioned getting TVs and other electronics for free or cheap. We know about these things because we too are struggling with money issues. The whole country is struggling. Now your situation may be tougher than some but the tension that goes along with these tough times does not have to be exacerbated by sticking to one way of thinking.
If the answer is only "the kids have to figure out a way to be OK with the decision I have made" then what many have to offer here will not help. If the answer is "I really want to consider other ways of solving this problem and make my life and my children's lives better" then ideas have been offered.
You can either rearrange whatever you do have and make room for a free TV or two. Move the computer? Mom's chair? Dad's sofa? Build a bracket on the wall to hold a TV? Or continue to live as is, expecting the children to live with your decision that they have to share one TV.
With everything else that is going on, this seems like an unnecessary source of stress to me.
Nance
If the answer is only "the kids have to figure out a way to be OK with the decision I have made" then what many have to offer here will not help. If the answer is "I really want to consider other ways of solving this problem and make my life and my children's lives better" then ideas have been offered.
You can either rearrange whatever you do have and make room for a free TV or two. Move the computer? Mom's chair? Dad's sofa? Build a bracket on the wall to hold a TV? Or continue to live as is, expecting the children to live with your decision that they have to share one TV.
With everything else that is going on, this seems like an unnecessary source of stress to me.
Nance
--- In [email protected], "erinanddavey" <e_mckinney@...> wrote:
>
> (Sorry I meant Meredith...not sure where the "Ruth" came from....)
>
> "You can't. You can draw the line you have chosen to draw and live with the consequences. Or you can look more closely at why you feel the need to draw this particular line."
>
>
> Without listing our life story, but in a nutshell: We may have started out with the construction quite a few years ago, but since then we have had a major accident w/brain damage, job loss, and the list goes on... so, we are on survival mode. Meaning that if it does not feed us, shelter us, clothe us... we do not buy it. So yes, this particular line has been drawn out of necessity. We have sold what we can (have worked on keeping tv, game systems, and computer because the kids requested..), turned in jars of coins to pay mortgage and buy groceries. We do not have internet, cable, or memberships to anything. The game systems and one of the tvs were gifts and the other one was bought prior to the beginning of construction (but with parts of the home torn apart...there is no space for additional screens, even if free). We are not in a position to resolve the issue by "just getting...". Nor can we give up any vacations(those are just wistful dreams), or cut back any more on groceries, choose not too put gas in the car (we can, but then a job comes under jeopardy), or just not get medications.
>
> It just feels like from some of these responses and reading other threads that so many issues become resolved by just going out and buying and/or getting something. I can respect that, if you are able to, but it seems like one can really feel that they are lacking in meeting their child's needs as a parent, if their situation does not allow such an easy solution.
>
> It may sound like I am being obstinate, but I have not only been taking it all in, but sharing it with the boys, who have been really following the exchange and become more proactive in their ideas of figuring out our situation! So this exchange alone has been a huge help and bonus....so thank you to all honesty and responses!!
>
> ...Erin
>
erinanddavey
Thank you one and all that participated in this discussion! It has been more rewarding and helpful than I even realized it could be. As I said before, the kids participated and really had some intense conversations. They just read the tv stacking and are brainstorming ways to figure something in that direction. But all in all, seeing it all written out has motivated them to work it out differently among themselves.
I am aware that things are hard for everyone, even our situation is better than some I know. I was only providing the info I did to form a framework of where I was trying to work from, not doing a "woes us" scenario because that is not our frame of mind.
Thank you again for the ideas and food for thought!
I am aware that things are hard for everyone, even our situation is better than some I know. I was only providing the info I did to form a framework of where I was trying to work from, not doing a "woes us" scenario because that is not our frame of mind.
Thank you again for the ideas and food for thought!
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Oh and don't be afraid to put a TV next to another. We have done that for years and can watch both with the sound on!
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
"erinanddavey" <e_mckinney@...> wrote:
I used to live communnally, and one of the biggest issues that could blow up between kids was that of communnal ownership. It doesn't always work well for kids! It works better for them to have ownership of things they find valuable. You're seeing the tv as a communnal ownership issue, but it would probably be better to see the big tv as belonging to the family member with the biggest use for that tool. Given the chance to use his very own tool for as long as he chooses he's muuuuuch more likely to offer to share graciously - Eventually. He's very unlikely to ever share graciously if he always feels like his special tool is being snatched away from him without any regard for his needs.
I have one kid with massively higher needs than the other. I've struggled with the idea of unfairness. But a person with higher needs Will dominate the scene with those needs until they are met - one way of another. When you step back from wishing that life would just be fair and equal and look at meeting needs (and a passion is a need), giving more to a child who needs more, then life becomes more peaceful - and that's Better than fair.
---Meredith
> how do I find the middle ground with what we have now.The idea of finding a middle ground is part of the problem - part of the conflict, itself. To the child who is passionate, your middle ground feels like theft and disregard and he's digging in his heels.
I used to live communnally, and one of the biggest issues that could blow up between kids was that of communnal ownership. It doesn't always work well for kids! It works better for them to have ownership of things they find valuable. You're seeing the tv as a communnal ownership issue, but it would probably be better to see the big tv as belonging to the family member with the biggest use for that tool. Given the chance to use his very own tool for as long as he chooses he's muuuuuch more likely to offer to share graciously - Eventually. He's very unlikely to ever share graciously if he always feels like his special tool is being snatched away from him without any regard for his needs.
>We are just not able to bring in another "anything" at this timeThen the big tv is the property of the one child. If you're seeing things in terms of fairness meaning equality, that seems very unfair. But if you step back and look at the reason you wrote in objectively, trying to create equality is creating an ongoing sense of unfairness.
I have one kid with massively higher needs than the other. I've struggled with the idea of unfairness. But a person with higher needs Will dominate the scene with those needs until they are met - one way of another. When you step back from wishing that life would just be fair and equal and look at meeting needs (and a passion is a need), giving more to a child who needs more, then life becomes more peaceful - and that's Better than fair.
---Meredith
erinanddavey
Very nice perspective and well put. Looking at it as higher needs instead of equality is what I need to roll around with for a bit. Thank you.
--- In [email protected], "plaidpanties666" <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
>
> "erinanddavey" <e_mckinney@> wrote:
> > how do I find the middle ground with what we have now.
>
> The idea of finding a middle ground is part of the problem - part of the conflict, itself. To the child who is passionate, your middle ground feels like theft and disregard and he's digging in his heels.
>
> I used to live communnally, and one of the biggest issues that could blow up between kids was that of communnal ownership. It doesn't always work well for kids! It works better for them to have ownership of things they find valuable. You're seeing the tv as a communnal ownership issue, but it would probably be better to see the big tv as belonging to the family member with the biggest use for that tool. Given the chance to use his very own tool for as long as he chooses he's muuuuuch more likely to offer to share graciously - Eventually. He's very unlikely to ever share graciously if he always feels like his special tool is being snatched away from him without any regard for his needs.
>
> >We are just not able to bring in another "anything" at this time
>
> Then the big tv is the property of the one child. If you're seeing things in terms of fairness meaning equality, that seems very unfair. But if you step back and look at the reason you wrote in objectively, trying to create equality is creating an ongoing sense of unfairness.
>
> I have one kid with massively higher needs than the other. I've struggled with the idea of unfairness. But a person with higher needs Will dominate the scene with those needs until they are met - one way of another. When you step back from wishing that life would just be fair and equal and look at meeting needs (and a passion is a need), giving more to a child who needs more, then life becomes more peaceful - and that's Better than fair.
>
> ---Meredith
>
Gwen Montoya
Maybe your oldest is probably most aware of these stressors because of his
age and maybe he's using the screen time as a way to cope? If so, then he
really does need it more than the younger kids.
Could you put a tv on the floor under a table and make it a kid space for
the younger ones? It is a little unconventional, but a TV doesn't have to
have its own stand/table/cabinet.
Others have suggested this, but getting a TV off of freecycle is pretty easy
(we've done it 2x over the years and have given away lots of stuff too). You
could probably find a DVD player too. Game systems would be a long shot, but
it doesn't hurt to ask.
Games & movies & music can be had at the library. I just discovered our
little local library has Wii, Xbox, Playstation & DS games in addition to
CD-Rom games. The wait is pretty long for some of them, but I was surprised
that there was no wait on some of the other games. Stocking up at the
library can be fun because the kids find cool things & it is free! My
youngest just started loving the Barbie movies, so I reserved about 15
titles at the library...not realizing that they would all arrive at the same
time. The look on her face was priceless when she saw a giant stack of
movies. If I'd tried to buy them it would have cost a fortune and even
renting from the video store would have been pricy...but from the library
they were free! We also don't have to allocate long term space for "stuff"
we get from the library since it is all temporary.
I noticed that when I feel stressed or get that "not enough" feeling the
kids pick up on it too and it becomes more important to make sure their cups
are filled.
Gwen
age and maybe he's using the screen time as a way to cope? If so, then he
really does need it more than the younger kids.
Could you put a tv on the floor under a table and make it a kid space for
the younger ones? It is a little unconventional, but a TV doesn't have to
have its own stand/table/cabinet.
Others have suggested this, but getting a TV off of freecycle is pretty easy
(we've done it 2x over the years and have given away lots of stuff too). You
could probably find a DVD player too. Game systems would be a long shot, but
it doesn't hurt to ask.
Games & movies & music can be had at the library. I just discovered our
little local library has Wii, Xbox, Playstation & DS games in addition to
CD-Rom games. The wait is pretty long for some of them, but I was surprised
that there was no wait on some of the other games. Stocking up at the
library can be fun because the kids find cool things & it is free! My
youngest just started loving the Barbie movies, so I reserved about 15
titles at the library...not realizing that they would all arrive at the same
time. The look on her face was priceless when she saw a giant stack of
movies. If I'd tried to buy them it would have cost a fortune and even
renting from the video store would have been pricy...but from the library
they were free! We also don't have to allocate long term space for "stuff"
we get from the library since it is all temporary.
I noticed that when I feel stressed or get that "not enough" feeling the
kids pick up on it too and it becomes more important to make sure their cups
are filled.
Gwen
On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 2:23 PM, erinanddavey <e_mckinney@...>wrote:
>
>
> Without listing our life story, but in a nutshell: We may have started out
> with the construction quite a few years ago, but since then we have had a
> major accident w/brain damage, job loss, and the list goes on... so, we are
> on survival mode. Meaning that if it does not feed us, shelter us, clothe
> us... we do not buy it. So yes, this particular line has been drawn out of
> necessity. We have sold what we can (have worked on keeping tv, game
> systems, and computer because the kids requested..), turned in jars of coins
> to pay mortgage and buy groceries. We do not have internet, cable, or
> memberships to anything. The game systems and one of the tvs were gifts and
> the other one was bought prior to the beginning of construction (but with
> parts of the home torn apart...there is no space for additional screens,
> even if free). We are not in a position to resolve the issue by "just
> getting...". Nor can we give up any vacations(those are just wistful
> dreams), or cut back any more on groceries, choose not too put gas in the
> car (we can, but then a job comes under jeopardy), or just not get
> medications.
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Erin could you e-mail me off list as I have a few plugg in TV games that my kids don't play anymore.
PolykowHolsteins @ yahoo dot com
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
PolykowHolsteins @ yahoo dot com
Alex Polikowsky
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]