10 year old boy anger issues
Heather in Cincy
I have been reading on this list for over two years but almost never post. I am need of some serious direction. My oldest is showing some high level anger issues and is lashing out in the form of screaming (really, at the top of his lungs!) at people when he gets frustrated. I'll admit that I recently lost it with him and did not treat him respectfully or peacefully, but I apologized and we talk quite often about this. Example: He was playing XBOX with his brother and his brother mumbled something under his breath. My oldest asked him to repeat what he said but he didn't want to. So my ds10 started screaming at him telling him he had to tell him what he said or he was going to hit him. It was so bad, I was on the phone with a company trying to pay a bill and I had to just excuse myself and hang up because I didn't know what kind of danger someone was in.
Overall, he isn't a loud kid, but he has a lot of anger inside him and he has very low self-confidence. He just recently lashed out at me screaming that it is my fault that he can't spell. We unschool, but I also try to encourage him to use online resources or programs if he feels they might help him achieve goals. For example, I bought All About Spelling because he asked me to teach him how to spell. That was over one year ago and he wanted to learn how, asked for a few lessons, then quit. I never pressured him or anything but I am always encouraging him to learn a few words when he wants to write something out. I also always spell for him when he asks. Then, suddenly he just started screaming at me the other day and crying because he can't spell. According to him, it is all my fault.
These are just a few examples.
I want to continue to treat him respectfully but he is stressing out the rest of the family. Some of the younger kids don't want to play with him as much and my husband, although he supports respectful/peaceful parenting, is about to return to traditional methods with him if we don't find a way to either work through this or shift our paradigm of viewing his anger. I love him deeply, in some ways, maybe as a favorite because he is my first, but right now I am not enjoying my time with him because it almost always ends up in a yelling match where someone else is doing something wrong - it is never him.
Help! I really want some advice - is it me?
Overall, he isn't a loud kid, but he has a lot of anger inside him and he has very low self-confidence. He just recently lashed out at me screaming that it is my fault that he can't spell. We unschool, but I also try to encourage him to use online resources or programs if he feels they might help him achieve goals. For example, I bought All About Spelling because he asked me to teach him how to spell. That was over one year ago and he wanted to learn how, asked for a few lessons, then quit. I never pressured him or anything but I am always encouraging him to learn a few words when he wants to write something out. I also always spell for him when he asks. Then, suddenly he just started screaming at me the other day and crying because he can't spell. According to him, it is all my fault.
These are just a few examples.
I want to continue to treat him respectfully but he is stressing out the rest of the family. Some of the younger kids don't want to play with him as much and my husband, although he supports respectful/peaceful parenting, is about to return to traditional methods with him if we don't find a way to either work through this or shift our paradigm of viewing his anger. I love him deeply, in some ways, maybe as a favorite because he is my first, but right now I am not enjoying my time with him because it almost always ends up in a yelling match where someone else is doing something wrong - it is never him.
Help! I really want some advice - is it me?
Tina Tarbutton
It has always helped me to remember that being angry and out of control
is sometimes scarier for the child than it is for the people around him.
Obviously you need to physically protect those around him, but at the same
time realize he's feeling very vulnerable while he's that angry.
It might also help to examine your fears. Fearing that your husband will
return to "traditional" parenting, as well as other fears, will make it
harder to address the situation at hand. I'm not sure how to explain this
clearly but basically your fears about your sons anger will feed into his
fears about being angry and his fears are what are making him angry in the
first place. I hope that makes sense.
Fear of being made fun of (the younger sibling mumbling) fear of not being
equal to peers (not being able to spell). From the examples you're giving
it sounds like his anger stems from an underlying fear. That may or may not
help you find a better way to handle it.
I'm not sure how to handle the issue with siblings (maybe someone with more
than one child can handle that part), but I have some ideas for the
spelling.
Offer him plenty of opportunities to spell things. Maybe get him a keyboard
phone for texting with you and your husband, and even friends. Draven (my
11y/o) has one we bought for around $50, and we have him on an unlimited
plan through Metro PCS for $40 a month. There are other cell phone
providers that have full keyboard phones cheaply with lower monthly plans.
See if he's interested in chatting with other unschoolers (Draven may like
to e-mail with him about games). Be available whenever he's typing to spell
anything he needs spelled, and do it without judgement. Draven recently got
the chatpad for the Xbox 360 and uses it to send text messages through the
games. Provide lots of handy dictionaries (they have ones that are
specifically for spelling) but don't say "look it up" just have it available
in case he wants to.
I would also work on his self esteem by pointing out (not when he's angry)
lots of things he is good at.
I know those things don't directly deal with the anger, however they deal
with the underlying problem causing the anger and that may be a better long
term solution.
Tina
--
unschoolinguntitled.com
is sometimes scarier for the child than it is for the people around him.
Obviously you need to physically protect those around him, but at the same
time realize he's feeling very vulnerable while he's that angry.
It might also help to examine your fears. Fearing that your husband will
return to "traditional" parenting, as well as other fears, will make it
harder to address the situation at hand. I'm not sure how to explain this
clearly but basically your fears about your sons anger will feed into his
fears about being angry and his fears are what are making him angry in the
first place. I hope that makes sense.
Fear of being made fun of (the younger sibling mumbling) fear of not being
equal to peers (not being able to spell). From the examples you're giving
it sounds like his anger stems from an underlying fear. That may or may not
help you find a better way to handle it.
I'm not sure how to handle the issue with siblings (maybe someone with more
than one child can handle that part), but I have some ideas for the
spelling.
Offer him plenty of opportunities to spell things. Maybe get him a keyboard
phone for texting with you and your husband, and even friends. Draven (my
11y/o) has one we bought for around $50, and we have him on an unlimited
plan through Metro PCS for $40 a month. There are other cell phone
providers that have full keyboard phones cheaply with lower monthly plans.
See if he's interested in chatting with other unschoolers (Draven may like
to e-mail with him about games). Be available whenever he's typing to spell
anything he needs spelled, and do it without judgement. Draven recently got
the chatpad for the Xbox 360 and uses it to send text messages through the
games. Provide lots of handy dictionaries (they have ones that are
specifically for spelling) but don't say "look it up" just have it available
in case he wants to.
I would also work on his self esteem by pointing out (not when he's angry)
lots of things he is good at.
I know those things don't directly deal with the anger, however they deal
with the underlying problem causing the anger and that may be a better long
term solution.
Tina
--
unschoolinguntitled.com
On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 4:41 PM, Heather in Cincy <hmschleidt@...>wrote:
>
>
> I have been reading on this list for over two years but almost never post.
> I am need of some serious direction. My oldest is showing some high level
> anger issues and is lashing out in the form of screaming (really, at the top
> of his lungs!) at people when he gets frustrated.
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Why do you think he "has a lot of anger inside him?" Not how does he act but what do you think causes/caused the anger? Does he say? Why does he want to spell? When does he get frustrated? What else is going on? Are all of you new to unschooling? Newish? No? Does the threat of "traditional methods" hang in the are? Etc. So many questions popped into my head as I was reading your post.
Nance
Nance
--- In [email protected], "Heather in Cincy" <hmschleidt@...> wrote:
>
> I have been reading on this list for over two years but almost never post. I am need of some serious direction. My oldest is showing some high level anger issues and is lashing out in the form of screaming (really, at the top of his lungs!) at people when he gets frustrated. I'll admit that I recently lost it with him and did not treat him respectfully or peacefully, but I apologized and we talk quite often about this. Example: He was playing XBOX with his brother and his brother mumbled something under his breath. My oldest asked him to repeat what he said but he didn't want to. So my ds10 started screaming at him telling him he had to tell him what he said or he was going to hit him. It was so bad, I was on the phone with a company trying to pay a bill and I had to just excuse myself and hang up because I didn't know what kind of danger someone was in.
>
> Overall, he isn't a loud kid, but he has a lot of anger inside him and he has very low self-confidence. He just recently lashed out at me screaming that it is my fault that he can't spell. We unschool, but I also try to encourage him to use online resources or programs if he feels they might help him achieve goals. For example, I bought All About Spelling because he asked me to teach him how to spell. That was over one year ago and he wanted to learn how, asked for a few lessons, then quit. I never pressured him or anything but I am always encouraging him to learn a few words when he wants to write something out. I also always spell for him when he asks. Then, suddenly he just started screaming at me the other day and crying because he can't spell. According to him, it is all my fault.
>
> These are just a few examples.
>
> I want to continue to treat him respectfully but he is stressing out the rest of the family. Some of the younger kids don't want to play with him as much and my husband, although he supports respectful/peaceful parenting, is about to return to traditional methods with him if we don't find a way to either work through this or shift our paradigm of viewing his anger. I love him deeply, in some ways, maybe as a favorite because he is my first, but right now I am not enjoying my time with him because it almost always ends up in a yelling match where someone else is doing something wrong - it is never him.
>
> Help! I really want some advice - is it me?
>
Heather in Cincy
To answer several of your questions: He tells me he is angry but can't verbalize why. To be honest, recently he spent time with grandma and grandpa who are disapproving of our methods and make "sly" comments. I told him this last time that he never had to go over there if he felt uncomfortable and then he started to cry and said he liked going over there but it was hard to hear them say that he only plays video games all day (he does play a lot, but he is very interested in other things just not in what they think is important).
I asked him why he wanted to spell and he says he is embarrassed at events (Cub Scouts, etc) where they have to spell things and he can't spell or write (he says he has terrible handwriting which REALLY is NOT true). I always offer ahead of time to help him with things later or help him spell if I am there but he doesn't want people seeing him need help.
No, we are not new to unschooling, but of course, like many, we have fallen off the horse occasionally and worked on "subjects" from time to time. Over the last year we have gotten pretty solid at unschooling. My kids have never been to school. Unschooling fits my ds7's personality, but my ds10 is always questioning himself and comparing himself with other people, even though we don't do that to him at all. In fact, I do all I can to point out his strengths. He also does not like sports very much and feels like he has a hard time making friends because they always want to play sports and he would rather do science experiments or art projects or build with legos.
I appreciate the questions because it makes me look harder at the reasons behind it. I also feel much of this is self-imposed. He is sooo hard on himself and we don't put any pressure on him.
Maybe somebody has a suggestion of a spelling website or program that makes it fun and I can ask him if he would like to try it. He is a more "structure" child and wants to have programs to learn. He asked me two weeks ago to buy him a math program so he could get better at math, even though I have never mentioned that need. In fact, he is probably at "state" standards for his grade level except for the memorization of multiplication and I joke with him all the time that he is about to surpass my math skills. We know he will get math when he needs it. I know that about spelling too and try and emphasize this, but that is not good enough for him, I think.
Thanks for the questions.
Heather
I asked him why he wanted to spell and he says he is embarrassed at events (Cub Scouts, etc) where they have to spell things and he can't spell or write (he says he has terrible handwriting which REALLY is NOT true). I always offer ahead of time to help him with things later or help him spell if I am there but he doesn't want people seeing him need help.
No, we are not new to unschooling, but of course, like many, we have fallen off the horse occasionally and worked on "subjects" from time to time. Over the last year we have gotten pretty solid at unschooling. My kids have never been to school. Unschooling fits my ds7's personality, but my ds10 is always questioning himself and comparing himself with other people, even though we don't do that to him at all. In fact, I do all I can to point out his strengths. He also does not like sports very much and feels like he has a hard time making friends because they always want to play sports and he would rather do science experiments or art projects or build with legos.
I appreciate the questions because it makes me look harder at the reasons behind it. I also feel much of this is self-imposed. He is sooo hard on himself and we don't put any pressure on him.
Maybe somebody has a suggestion of a spelling website or program that makes it fun and I can ask him if he would like to try it. He is a more "structure" child and wants to have programs to learn. He asked me two weeks ago to buy him a math program so he could get better at math, even though I have never mentioned that need. In fact, he is probably at "state" standards for his grade level except for the memorization of multiplication and I joke with him all the time that he is about to surpass my math skills. We know he will get math when he needs it. I know that about spelling too and try and emphasize this, but that is not good enough for him, I think.
Thanks for the questions.
Heather
--- In [email protected], "marbleface@..." <marbleface@...> wrote:
>
> Why do you think he "has a lot of anger inside him?" Not how does he act but what do you think causes/caused the anger? Does he say? Why does he want to spell? When does he get frustrated? What else is going on? Are all of you new to unschooling? Newish? No? Does the threat of "traditional methods" hang in the are? Etc. So many questions popped into my head as I was reading your post.
>
> Nance
>
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "Heather in Cincy" <hmschleidt@> wrote:
> >
> > I have been reading on this list for over two years but almost never post. I am need of some serious direction. My oldest is showing some high level anger issues and is lashing out in the form of screaming (really, at the top of his lungs!) at people when he gets frustrated. I'll admit that I recently lost it with him and did not treat him respectfully or peacefully, but I apologized and we talk quite often about this. Example: He was playing XBOX with his brother and his brother mumbled something under his breath. My oldest asked him to repeat what he said but he didn't want to. So my ds10 started screaming at him telling him he had to tell him what he said or he was going to hit him. It was so bad, I was on the phone with a company trying to pay a bill and I had to just excuse myself and hang up because I didn't know what kind of danger someone was in.
> >
> > Overall, he isn't a loud kid, but he has a lot of anger inside him and he has very low self-confidence. He just recently lashed out at me screaming that it is my fault that he can't spell. We unschool, but I also try to encourage him to use online resources or programs if he feels they might help him achieve goals. For example, I bought All About Spelling because he asked me to teach him how to spell. That was over one year ago and he wanted to learn how, asked for a few lessons, then quit. I never pressured him or anything but I am always encouraging him to learn a few words when he wants to write something out. I also always spell for him when he asks. Then, suddenly he just started screaming at me the other day and crying because he can't spell. According to him, it is all my fault.
> >
> > These are just a few examples.
> >
> > I want to continue to treat him respectfully but he is stressing out the rest of the family. Some of the younger kids don't want to play with him as much and my husband, although he supports respectful/peaceful parenting, is about to return to traditional methods with him if we don't find a way to either work through this or shift our paradigm of viewing his anger. I love him deeply, in some ways, maybe as a favorite because he is my first, but right now I am not enjoying my time with him because it almost always ends up in a yelling match where someone else is doing something wrong - it is never him.
> >
> > Help! I really want some advice - is it me?
> >
>
lylaw
>>I want to continue to treat him respectfully but he is stressing out the rest of the family. Some of the younger kids don't want to play with him as much and my husband, although he supports respectful/peaceful parenting, is about to return to traditional methods with him if we don't find a way to either work through this or shift our paradigm of viewing his anger. >>>my son is now 12.5 but at 9-10 and beyond was very much as you describe your son. I have many thoughts, but first have a question – above you say “return to traditional parenting” – how long have you been unschooling? was he in school before? how long have you been aware of and using respectful parenting approaches? and if you were traditionally parenting him, how was he then?
lyla
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lylaw
>at "state" standards for his grade level except for the memorization of multiplication and I joke with him all the time that he is about to surpass my math skills. >I know you feel you put no pressure on him, but this line above, combined with your statement that you “fall of the wagon” of unschooling periodically, and use programs and curriculum, etc. might be enough to feel like tremendous pressure to a sensitive, intuitive and hard on himself child. some people just have a tendency to harder on themselves than others, and telling them all they are good at doesn’t help – truly. my son has told me that it actually makes it worse – feels like I am arguing with his self perceptions. what has helped is finding that COMPLETE trust in his process and individual timeline in my own mind and heart and then being a rock for him around those things. and sharing stories with him, casually, about different ways different people learn, and on different timelines. read books about einstein’s childhood – a great kid’s book is “odd boy out” in which my son recognized himself IMMENSELY in the story of einstein – temperament, sibling issues, school experiences, even speech quirks! I *highly* recommend that book!
my son continues to surprise and amaze me with his changes in willingness to try new things, his ability to adapt and adjust to new situations and to overcome disappointment and frustration, especially in this last year or so (12) – 9-10 is a very tumultuous age for many kids.
have you read “the explosive child”? that’s a good one – if your husband will read it too, it might really help. it’s by a doctor, and very very respectful of kids who have what he calls “lagging skills” in social / emotional regulation....I don’t particularly like the term lagging, but he looks at it as something that needs tremendous support, not punishment or domination, and even though it’s not an unschooling, or even a home schooling, book, it can be really helpful for any parent struggling to figure out how to deal with intense reactions. his web site is www.livesinthebalance.org. ross greene, the author, talks about parents needing to be their children’s “surrogate frontal lobe” while the child’s matures.
also – how do you respond when the issues like the one with his brother talking under his breath come up? in my experience prevention and being extremely proactive at the first sign of discord is essential for kids who tend to go from 0 to 60 very rapidly. pam sorooshian wrote a wonderful post about that, but I cannot find it anywhere – does anyone else have that?
also, when he blames you, I know it’s hard, but try not to take it personally, in an affronted way. lots of empathy and understanding for the underlying feelings and frustration can help a lot, to soothe and calm him, so he can get to a more rational, comfortable place. when he’s lashing out, remember that HE feels bad.
lyla
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lylaw
ah I found the post by pam:
“
by pam sorooshian, with permission:
Around the age of 10 she got the ability to get away, fast, just before she would explode (not every time, but lots of times). There were people who were critical of that, called it "storming off," in a negative way. But, I knew that it was a big step forward for her and I'd stop others from following her and insisting that she should deal with the problem immediately.
Sandra talks about how different bodies probably handle adrenaline differently. For some it hits them fast and furious, for others it is slow to flow, but also slow to dissipate. Roxana says, and always said, that her anger took her by surprise, that she really didn't have enough warning signals to stop and make any other decision. Even trying to
breathe first seemed impossible to her. She'd be already furious and shouting or saying things she later regretted, at the exact same time that another part of her brain would be telling her to stop and breathe first. Looking back (she's 22 now and has full self-control), I think Roxana's fight or flight body chemical responses were super super quick and intense. She was little and when she felt wronged, it felt like being attacked to her, and she had an instant and super strong
physiological reaction - she was immediately awash in "fight" mode chemicals. Switching to "flight" was doable because those same chemicals can lead to that option. Switching to "calmly discuss the problem" just wasn't a realistic option when all those fight or flight chemicals were raging in her body.
Rox's sisters learned quickly to let her leave and then let her return without much comment. Sometimes, though, she'd have a problem with friends, who would get their moms involved and then the mothers were insistent that she should stay and "talk it out" right then and there and they would get really pushy about it. There were times I said very firmly and clearly (to moms, mostly, but maybe a few times to kids), "Please do NOT follow Roxana when she needs to get away. Let her go on her own and leave her alone. She'll come back when she feels ready to work things out." I stood guard a few times at park days - Rox was off on her own, crying and very upset, and I prevented anyone from going to
her and insisting she "talk about it." I know for a fact that there were parents there who thought I was cruel not to go to her myself, but I knew she needed space around her to recover. Looking back, I think it was that she needed a certain amount of time for the fight or flight chemicals to dissipate.
She's a great 22-year-old now - I know her friends would describe her as even-tempered and sweet. She still does have a very very strong sense of justice - she feels it strongly when things seem unfair - it infuriates her still. But she can cope. She has perspective. She "feels" it but doesn't blow up over it. Example would be that her registration window
at her university was Wednesday morning. They get 2 hours to register, then their window closes and they can't make any changes until just before school starts in the fall - no adding or dropping or changing classes. There was a glitch in the computer system during her window and it didn't recognize that she'd met the prerequisites for a series of courses she needs to take to graduate. So it would not let her register. She emailed support, they emailed her back that they'd fied it, but they took two hours to do it and her window closed, so she couldn't get into the classes. They're now all full. That kind of unfair frustration is exactly the kind of thing that used to completely throw her - something not her fault, frustrating, and unfair. But, this time, she anticipated they might take too long to fix it and so she looked around for some
other courses to take, found some others that seem interesting to her, and really more than made the best of it. Ended up with some classes she would otherwise not have taken and she's looking forward to them.
Rox doesn't let everybody see all her intensity - all the strong feelings she still has. She keeps it inside and only a few people even suspect it is there. She can still "feel" explosive about little things (to others) when they seem very unfair. She will excuse herself and go to the bathroom when people are playing a game and she thinks some decision was a bad one. I think her biochemistry has changed, some, with maturity, but mostly she has learned various strategies to handle it.
So - for those of you with quick-trigger kids who don't seem to have self-control, I guess I'm saying do the best you can to help them now in ways that work best for them. Don't assume that helping them understand how to problem solve, for example, is useful. Roxana understood quite well how to problem solve. That wasn't her problem at all and all
attempts to help her understand it just caused her greater frustration and made things worse. The most important thing I did was really listen to Roxana and really pay attention to what seemed to help and what didn't. Enlist the child's help - it isn't like the kid wants things to be hard - kids want to be happy, too.”
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
“
by pam sorooshian, with permission:
Around the age of 10 she got the ability to get away, fast, just before she would explode (not every time, but lots of times). There were people who were critical of that, called it "storming off," in a negative way. But, I knew that it was a big step forward for her and I'd stop others from following her and insisting that she should deal with the problem immediately.
Sandra talks about how different bodies probably handle adrenaline differently. For some it hits them fast and furious, for others it is slow to flow, but also slow to dissipate. Roxana says, and always said, that her anger took her by surprise, that she really didn't have enough warning signals to stop and make any other decision. Even trying to
breathe first seemed impossible to her. She'd be already furious and shouting or saying things she later regretted, at the exact same time that another part of her brain would be telling her to stop and breathe first. Looking back (she's 22 now and has full self-control), I think Roxana's fight or flight body chemical responses were super super quick and intense. She was little and when she felt wronged, it felt like being attacked to her, and she had an instant and super strong
physiological reaction - she was immediately awash in "fight" mode chemicals. Switching to "flight" was doable because those same chemicals can lead to that option. Switching to "calmly discuss the problem" just wasn't a realistic option when all those fight or flight chemicals were raging in her body.
Rox's sisters learned quickly to let her leave and then let her return without much comment. Sometimes, though, she'd have a problem with friends, who would get their moms involved and then the mothers were insistent that she should stay and "talk it out" right then and there and they would get really pushy about it. There were times I said very firmly and clearly (to moms, mostly, but maybe a few times to kids), "Please do NOT follow Roxana when she needs to get away. Let her go on her own and leave her alone. She'll come back when she feels ready to work things out." I stood guard a few times at park days - Rox was off on her own, crying and very upset, and I prevented anyone from going to
her and insisting she "talk about it." I know for a fact that there were parents there who thought I was cruel not to go to her myself, but I knew she needed space around her to recover. Looking back, I think it was that she needed a certain amount of time for the fight or flight chemicals to dissipate.
She's a great 22-year-old now - I know her friends would describe her as even-tempered and sweet. She still does have a very very strong sense of justice - she feels it strongly when things seem unfair - it infuriates her still. But she can cope. She has perspective. She "feels" it but doesn't blow up over it. Example would be that her registration window
at her university was Wednesday morning. They get 2 hours to register, then their window closes and they can't make any changes until just before school starts in the fall - no adding or dropping or changing classes. There was a glitch in the computer system during her window and it didn't recognize that she'd met the prerequisites for a series of courses she needs to take to graduate. So it would not let her register. She emailed support, they emailed her back that they'd fied it, but they took two hours to do it and her window closed, so she couldn't get into the classes. They're now all full. That kind of unfair frustration is exactly the kind of thing that used to completely throw her - something not her fault, frustrating, and unfair. But, this time, she anticipated they might take too long to fix it and so she looked around for some
other courses to take, found some others that seem interesting to her, and really more than made the best of it. Ended up with some classes she would otherwise not have taken and she's looking forward to them.
Rox doesn't let everybody see all her intensity - all the strong feelings she still has. She keeps it inside and only a few people even suspect it is there. She can still "feel" explosive about little things (to others) when they seem very unfair. She will excuse herself and go to the bathroom when people are playing a game and she thinks some decision was a bad one. I think her biochemistry has changed, some, with maturity, but mostly she has learned various strategies to handle it.
So - for those of you with quick-trigger kids who don't seem to have self-control, I guess I'm saying do the best you can to help them now in ways that work best for them. Don't assume that helping them understand how to problem solve, for example, is useful. Roxana understood quite well how to problem solve. That wasn't her problem at all and all
attempts to help her understand it just caused her greater frustration and made things worse. The most important thing I did was really listen to Roxana and really pay attention to what seemed to help and what didn't. Enlist the child's help - it isn't like the kid wants things to be hard - kids want to be happy, too.”
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
My son loves to play on the computer a lot. He has some "educational" games that he really enjoys to play. Reader Rabbit, Jump Start, and Clue Finders come to mind. There is also a Math Blaster or something like that.
He also (age 12) has anger issues that sound very similar. I think a lot of my sons yelling came from me because before we started more connected with our children, I was a big yeller. I try to be near when my kids are doing something that often ends in fights - usually the computer. I don't have to be as close as often now that we have been doing it for a while. I found that my older son was trying to teach or direct the other kids and they were not listening. I encourage them to come to me when they are having a problem with one another before it gets to an explosion. I point out that none of us liked it when mom was a yeller, but I have to work on it. For us, communication (or lack of good communication) is typically the problem, so we are working on that. Something else I wanted to point out, that my oldest used to think he was always the one getting in trouble because since he was older, I expected him to act differently.
(note, our family has only been unschooling and connection parenting for about a year, so I'm still learning a lot and making adjustments).
Shannan
He also (age 12) has anger issues that sound very similar. I think a lot of my sons yelling came from me because before we started more connected with our children, I was a big yeller. I try to be near when my kids are doing something that often ends in fights - usually the computer. I don't have to be as close as often now that we have been doing it for a while. I found that my older son was trying to teach or direct the other kids and they were not listening. I encourage them to come to me when they are having a problem with one another before it gets to an explosion. I point out that none of us liked it when mom was a yeller, but I have to work on it. For us, communication (or lack of good communication) is typically the problem, so we are working on that. Something else I wanted to point out, that my oldest used to think he was always the one getting in trouble because since he was older, I expected him to act differently.
(note, our family has only been unschooling and connection parenting for about a year, so I'm still learning a lot and making adjustments).
Shannan
--- On Tue, 3/8/11, Heather in Cincy <hmschleidt@...> wrote:
From: Heather in Cincy <hmschleidt@...>
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: 10 year old boy anger issues
To: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2011, 6:20 PM
plays video games all day (he does play a lot, but he is very interested in other things just not in what they think is important).
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
Look to environmental things for clues as to what is ramping up your eldest's
responses. Hunger can play a big role in inability to deal emotionally,
tiredness, thirst, boredom. Look to those things and see if you can direct some
of your desire to fix, your wanting to help towards improving his basic needs.
Both Simon and Linnaea have enormously different responses to things when they
are hungry or tired. 10 can be developmentally intense. He's getting ready to
hit puberty, he's probably starting to put on a bit of extra weight in
preparation for the impending series of growth spurts and the other series of
changes that are about to be initiated. He's appetite is probably growing out of
proportion with your expectations.
Be more present. If his lashing out seems to come in moments when you are doing
something else, try and do those things when you are more certain of his mood. I
am fairly adept at turning a tense moment. Although, sometimes I end up ramping
up the whole thing. But, if both Simon and Linnaea are in a grumbly, grouchy
sort of mood my presence can make a massive difference to the way they move
through that period with each other. It is much, much better if I am in the
group at the beginning than if I come in later to try and mediate the peace
accord. It also helps if when I can feel tension if I bring in a platter of food
and some drinks. That can physically change the environment enough that the
moment of tension passes more quickly.
I've done it. I've done it a fair bit. I'm feeling low and grumpy and I'm kind
of picking fights and to justify it I come up with something relatively
tangential. If you've been fussing, even supportively, about his spelling, he
may be grasping at something that he knows will get your attention. There is a
huge desire to not be at fault for being in a bad mood. Being able to shift that
blame on to something else doesn't really help, but maybe for a moment one feels
less accountable.
Some people never spell really well. Some people just never get an eye for how
to spell, never can feel when e comes before i or i comes before e. I find that
I am less certain about words than I used to be. But spell check is an amazing
thing. I don't have to be perfect, I can google it (or goggle it as my spell
checker would have it). What if your son is among those folks for whom spelling
will never be an easy thing? Will working with different programmes just make
him feel less confident, more sure that he can't learn without schooling and
even with schooling he's just incapable?
Rather than work to implement a holistic solution for the spelling problem,
offer him lists of words that he thinks will come up when he's writing things
for Cubs Scouts or wherever. Target the problem with greater efficiency instead
of going at it with a general desire to improve his spelling. What does he need
to write for Cub Scouts? Are there ways that you and he can do a directed study
of the words that are likely to come up? He could carry around a little notebook
with the words in it and review them when he wanted or you could play hangman
with that word list. And handwriting improves with practice, or with other kinds
of pencil and paper work, things like drawing. You could get him a Wacom tablet
for the computer and he could play around with that. We have one and I think I'm
the only person who ever really used it. Now it just gathers dust. But maybe
your son would use it more than we have.
My guess is that the spelling thing isn't really the pivotal point for his mood,
though. My guess is that it is a scapegoat. He feels bad and he doesn't want to
feel bad. He's grouchy and he doesn't want to be grouchy. Spelling and
handwriting are things that he feels he doesn't do as well as he might and
perhaps he's felt your attention on those areas and he's wanting attention. Give
him more joy, give him more things to be happy about, to enjoy, to play with, to
laugh about. And I bet you the spelling and handwriting things will move to
lesser and lesser importance in the face of feeling good about life.
Schuyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
responses. Hunger can play a big role in inability to deal emotionally,
tiredness, thirst, boredom. Look to those things and see if you can direct some
of your desire to fix, your wanting to help towards improving his basic needs.
Both Simon and Linnaea have enormously different responses to things when they
are hungry or tired. 10 can be developmentally intense. He's getting ready to
hit puberty, he's probably starting to put on a bit of extra weight in
preparation for the impending series of growth spurts and the other series of
changes that are about to be initiated. He's appetite is probably growing out of
proportion with your expectations.
Be more present. If his lashing out seems to come in moments when you are doing
something else, try and do those things when you are more certain of his mood. I
am fairly adept at turning a tense moment. Although, sometimes I end up ramping
up the whole thing. But, if both Simon and Linnaea are in a grumbly, grouchy
sort of mood my presence can make a massive difference to the way they move
through that period with each other. It is much, much better if I am in the
group at the beginning than if I come in later to try and mediate the peace
accord. It also helps if when I can feel tension if I bring in a platter of food
and some drinks. That can physically change the environment enough that the
moment of tension passes more quickly.
>>He just recently lashed out at me screaming that it is my fault that he can'tDo you ever grab at something when you are in a fight to justify feeling bad?
>>spell. <<
I've done it. I've done it a fair bit. I'm feeling low and grumpy and I'm kind
of picking fights and to justify it I come up with something relatively
tangential. If you've been fussing, even supportively, about his spelling, he
may be grasping at something that he knows will get your attention. There is a
huge desire to not be at fault for being in a bad mood. Being able to shift that
blame on to something else doesn't really help, but maybe for a moment one feels
less accountable.
Some people never spell really well. Some people just never get an eye for how
to spell, never can feel when e comes before i or i comes before e. I find that
I am less certain about words than I used to be. But spell check is an amazing
thing. I don't have to be perfect, I can google it (or goggle it as my spell
checker would have it). What if your son is among those folks for whom spelling
will never be an easy thing? Will working with different programmes just make
him feel less confident, more sure that he can't learn without schooling and
even with schooling he's just incapable?
Rather than work to implement a holistic solution for the spelling problem,
offer him lists of words that he thinks will come up when he's writing things
for Cubs Scouts or wherever. Target the problem with greater efficiency instead
of going at it with a general desire to improve his spelling. What does he need
to write for Cub Scouts? Are there ways that you and he can do a directed study
of the words that are likely to come up? He could carry around a little notebook
with the words in it and review them when he wanted or you could play hangman
with that word list. And handwriting improves with practice, or with other kinds
of pencil and paper work, things like drawing. You could get him a Wacom tablet
for the computer and he could play around with that. We have one and I think I'm
the only person who ever really used it. Now it just gathers dust. But maybe
your son would use it more than we have.
My guess is that the spelling thing isn't really the pivotal point for his mood,
though. My guess is that it is a scapegoat. He feels bad and he doesn't want to
feel bad. He's grouchy and he doesn't want to be grouchy. Spelling and
handwriting are things that he feels he doesn't do as well as he might and
perhaps he's felt your attention on those areas and he's wanting attention. Give
him more joy, give him more things to be happy about, to enjoy, to play with, to
laugh about. And I bet you the spelling and handwriting things will move to
lesser and lesser importance in the face of feeling good about life.
Schuyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Can you do anything about grandma and grandpa? "You know your grandson would love to keep visiting you but. . . "
Nance
Nance
--- In [email protected], "Heather in Cincy" <hmschleidt@...> wrote:
>
> To answer several of your questions: He tells me he is angry but can't verbalize why. To be honest, recently he spent time with grandma and grandpa who are disapproving of our methods and make "sly" comments. I told him this last time that he never had to go over there if he felt uncomfortable and then he started to cry and said he liked going over there but it was hard to hear them say that he only plays video games all day (he does play a lot, but he is very interested in other things just not in what they think is important).
>
>
[email protected]
He also does not like sports very much and feels like he has a hard
time making friends because they always want to play sports and he would rather
do science experiments or art projects or build with legos.
********He sounds wonderful! My kind of kid! (Apologies to sporty types out there. :) )
Maybe somebody has a suggestion of a spelling website or program that makes it fun and I can ask him if he would like to try it.
********My daughter demanded a formal reading program at one point -- I think she was 6 and angry that "everyone but me can read!" I thought she could read just fine for a beginning reader but we went online together and she chose the 100 Easy Lessons book. She did about the middle third of it and was then reading independently enough to suit herself and took off from there. I wonder if something like that would help your son. I think 100 Easy Lessons is way too easy for your son but maybe he could pick out something he feels would be useful. And if he wants to practice writing and do spelling exercises, he could set himself up on a schedule to do that. Not to abandon him in his efforts but if he wants and needs these activities to be scheduled (right now anyway) being part of that process (selecting the material, setting a time to do it, reminding himself to do it (does he want you to remind him?), doing it, etc.) then he could be involved as much as possible and really own what's going into his own head. And when he wants to stop doing all that (even when the books are only half used and the handwriting practice sheets are neglected), that's OK too.
*********FWIW, my DD spent the next 9 years reading her way through the local libraries and has now taken herself to a charter high school at the local community college and is doing very well. She's surprised at how poorly some of the other students write but. . . :)
Nance
time making friends because they always want to play sports and he would rather
do science experiments or art projects or build with legos.
********He sounds wonderful! My kind of kid! (Apologies to sporty types out there. :) )
Maybe somebody has a suggestion of a spelling website or program that makes it fun and I can ask him if he would like to try it.
********My daughter demanded a formal reading program at one point -- I think she was 6 and angry that "everyone but me can read!" I thought she could read just fine for a beginning reader but we went online together and she chose the 100 Easy Lessons book. She did about the middle third of it and was then reading independently enough to suit herself and took off from there. I wonder if something like that would help your son. I think 100 Easy Lessons is way too easy for your son but maybe he could pick out something he feels would be useful. And if he wants to practice writing and do spelling exercises, he could set himself up on a schedule to do that. Not to abandon him in his efforts but if he wants and needs these activities to be scheduled (right now anyway) being part of that process (selecting the material, setting a time to do it, reminding himself to do it (does he want you to remind him?), doing it, etc.) then he could be involved as much as possible and really own what's going into his own head. And when he wants to stop doing all that (even when the books are only half used and the handwriting practice sheets are neglected), that's OK too.
*********FWIW, my DD spent the next 9 years reading her way through the local libraries and has now taken herself to a charter high school at the local community college and is doing very well. She's surprised at how poorly some of the other students write but. . . :)
Nance
plaidpanties666
"Heather in Cincy" <hmschleidt@...> wrote:
It seems like the biggest issue is he's the "odd man out" and its wrecking his self esteem. He looks around, and everyone else has different interests and strengths. Its up to you to help him find his real peer group.
Find a Lego League. Find a science club of some kind. Check at zoos, botanical gardens and local community colleges for classes and clubs with "sciency" themes or art thems he might like. Check with all your local museums and even go outside "local" if there aren't good resources in the area. Check with area homeschoolers to see if anyone is putting together group science or art classes and get involved.
Focusing on spelling is a red herring. If he seems somehow desperate to learn to spell, and has a logical turn of mind then it might be more helpful to steer him away from any kind of phonics-based spelling program and look into the sort of thing spelling bee champs use - breaking the words down by their historical roots and seeing Those patterns.
---Meredith
>He also does not like sports very much and feels like he has a hard time making friends because they always want to play sports and he would rather do science experiments or art projects or build with legos.***************
It seems like the biggest issue is he's the "odd man out" and its wrecking his self esteem. He looks around, and everyone else has different interests and strengths. Its up to you to help him find his real peer group.
Find a Lego League. Find a science club of some kind. Check at zoos, botanical gardens and local community colleges for classes and clubs with "sciency" themes or art thems he might like. Check with all your local museums and even go outside "local" if there aren't good resources in the area. Check with area homeschoolers to see if anyone is putting together group science or art classes and get involved.
Focusing on spelling is a red herring. If he seems somehow desperate to learn to spell, and has a logical turn of mind then it might be more helpful to steer him away from any kind of phonics-based spelling program and look into the sort of thing spelling bee champs use - breaking the words down by their historical roots and seeing Those patterns.
---Meredith
[email protected]
Good insight! Why we should ask around. Someone else will see things differently and it might just help. :)
Nance
Nance
--- In [email protected], "plaidpanties666" <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
>
> "Heather in Cincy" <hmschleidt@> wrote:
> >He also does not like sports very much and feels like he has a hard time making friends because they always want to play sports and he would rather do science experiments or art projects or build with legos.
> ***************
>
> It seems like the biggest issue is he's the "odd man out" and its wrecking his self esteem. He looks around, and everyone else has different interests and strengths. Its up to you to help him find his real peer group.
>
> Find a Lego League. Find a science club of some kind. Check at zoos, botanical gardens and local community colleges for classes and clubs with "sciency" themes or art thems he might like. Check with all your local museums and even go outside "local" if there aren't good resources in the area. Check with area homeschoolers to see if anyone is putting together group science or art classes and get involved.
>
> Focusing on spelling is a red herring. If he seems somehow desperate to learn to spell, and has a logical turn of mind then it might be more helpful to steer him away from any kind of phonics-based spelling program and look into the sort of thing spelling bee champs use - breaking the words down by their historical roots and seeing Those patterns.
>
> ---Meredith
>
JJ
Also, don't automatically think in terms of age-peers when seeking out interest-peers and encourage him not to focus on age peers, either. One of the best things for our now-15 year old always-unschooling son, has been finding him individuals and groups that are a great fit with what he wants to do, who appreciate unschooled exploration rather than a standard instructional approach and are a good match personality-wise.
Needless to say, this seldom happens at random! For us it's turned out to be mostly adult males -- either young and bursting with passion and energy (25ish) or old (wise and seasoned, lots of patience and not competitive with a child.) These relationships have started out as paid one-on-one tutoring (in order of his enthusiasms from about age 10, remote control airplanes, dance, singing, acting, bagpipes, French which was a retired woman, and starting tomorrow when we meet "Martin" in person, saxophone) and grown to be personal friendships as well. Through these targeted shared interests with a structured schedule of getting together he can count on, he naturally tends to meet other compatible individuals including a few age peers over time, and they all then share cast parties, rehearsals and special weekend events of various kinds. A few of those have recently become FaceBook and online videogame friends as well.
But honestly, he never did the usual playdates, park days, birthday parties etc. with age peers nor seemed to want that, and he never had proximity friends in the neighborhood (none of us do -- people stay inside here or go out in their own cars.) He went to his birthday party just last month, at a pizza place, a girl he has been dancing with for three years and another boy from dance, plus two of her school friends.
Needless to say, this seldom happens at random! For us it's turned out to be mostly adult males -- either young and bursting with passion and energy (25ish) or old (wise and seasoned, lots of patience and not competitive with a child.) These relationships have started out as paid one-on-one tutoring (in order of his enthusiasms from about age 10, remote control airplanes, dance, singing, acting, bagpipes, French which was a retired woman, and starting tomorrow when we meet "Martin" in person, saxophone) and grown to be personal friendships as well. Through these targeted shared interests with a structured schedule of getting together he can count on, he naturally tends to meet other compatible individuals including a few age peers over time, and they all then share cast parties, rehearsals and special weekend events of various kinds. A few of those have recently become FaceBook and online videogame friends as well.
But honestly, he never did the usual playdates, park days, birthday parties etc. with age peers nor seemed to want that, and he never had proximity friends in the neighborhood (none of us do -- people stay inside here or go out in their own cars.) He went to his birthday party just last month, at a pizza place, a girl he has been dancing with for three years and another boy from dance, plus two of her school friends.
--- In [email protected], "marbleface@..." <marbleface@...> wrote:
>
> Good insight! Why we should ask around. Someone else will see things differently and it might just help. :)
>
> Nance
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "plaidpanties666" <plaidpanties666@> wrote:
> >
> > "Heather in Cincy" <hmschleidt@> wrote:
> > >He also does not like sports very much and feels like he has a hard time making friends because they always want to play sports and he would rather do science experiments or art projects or build with legos.
> > ***************
> >
> > It seems like the biggest issue is he's the "odd man out" and its wrecking his self esteem. He looks around, and everyone else has different interests and strengths. Its up to you to help him find his real peer group.
> >
> > Find a Lego League. Find a science club of some kind. Check at zoos, botanical gardens and local community colleges for classes and clubs with "sciency" themes or art thems he might like. Check with all your local museums and even go outside "local" if there aren't good resources in the area. Check with area homeschoolers to see if anyone is putting together group science or art classes and get involved.
> >
> > Focusing on spelling is a red herring. If he seems somehow desperate to learn to spell, and has a logical turn of mind then it might be more helpful to steer him away from any kind of phonics-based spelling program and look into the sort of thing spelling bee champs use - breaking the words down by their historical roots and seeing Those patterns.
> >
> > ---Meredith
> >
>
JJ
--- In [email protected], "JJ" <jrossedd@...> wrote:
A couple of words dropped out and made the last sentence unclear, sorry: "He went to his FIRST birthday party just last month, at a pizza place, WITH a girl he has been dancing with for three years and another boy from dance, plus two of her school friends."
[email protected]
But JJ, if he hasn't been to dozens of birthday parties over the years with people his exact age, how will he know what to do? What about socialization? How will he know how to eat the cake and ice cream! :)
Nance
Nance
--- In [email protected], "JJ" <jrossedd@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "JJ" <jrossedd@> wrote:
> A couple of words dropped out and made the last sentence unclear, sorry: "He went to his FIRST birthday party just last month, at a pizza place, WITH a girl he has been dancing with for three years and another boy from dance, plus two of her school friends."
>
JJ
LOL - I have to admit, after I dropped him off and was home with DH waiting until time to pick him up, DH asked if I had remembered to tell him to use a fork with the cake (he only likes spoons or fingers) and I hadn't! I had just reminded him to thank the girl's mom, not to eat more than two slices, etc. Uh-oh. So on the way home later, I asked, whereupon he rolled his eyes and and assured me he was able to fake the fork thing all on his own without my help . . .
--- In [email protected], "marbleface@..." <marbleface@...> wrote:
>
> But JJ, if he hasn't been to dozens of birthday parties over the years with people his exact age, how will he know what to do? What about socialization? How will he know how to eat the cake and ice cream! :)
> > A couple of words dropped out and made the last sentence unclear, sorry: "He went to his FIRST birthday party just last month, at a pizza place, WITH a girl he has been dancing with for three years and another boy from dance, plus two of her school friends."
> >
>
Heather in Cincy
Shannan,
Thanks for the reminder. I was looking at a mirror of my past few weeks and I realized that I have been very engrossed in getting a few things done around the house and haven't really been very connected. I usually am, but we were out of town at Christmas for 4 weeks, then out of town again for a week, then out of town again for another week. Almost always with the kids, but still laundry and stress pile up and I realized I was spending a lot of time disconnected with my kids. Maybe, just maybe that is a big spot of the problem. Thanks so much for the thoughts and insight.
BTW, I have read about everything under the sun about unschooling, but connection parenting is still fairly new to me. Did you read anything, either online or bookwise, that really has helped you in your beginning phase? Everyone has recommended Raising Our Children, Raising Ourselves by Naomi Aldort but I just can't seem to grasp her writing style and it is blocking me from learning much from her. I am going to try and reread it but this will be my third attempt. Do you have any suggetions? I am doing much, much better on the "be present" and connecting part than I was a year ago (and a 180 degree flip from where I was when they were infants) but I need lots and lots of help in this area.
Any suggestions will be taken seriously! Thanks!
Heather
Thanks for the reminder. I was looking at a mirror of my past few weeks and I realized that I have been very engrossed in getting a few things done around the house and haven't really been very connected. I usually am, but we were out of town at Christmas for 4 weeks, then out of town again for a week, then out of town again for another week. Almost always with the kids, but still laundry and stress pile up and I realized I was spending a lot of time disconnected with my kids. Maybe, just maybe that is a big spot of the problem. Thanks so much for the thoughts and insight.
BTW, I have read about everything under the sun about unschooling, but connection parenting is still fairly new to me. Did you read anything, either online or bookwise, that really has helped you in your beginning phase? Everyone has recommended Raising Our Children, Raising Ourselves by Naomi Aldort but I just can't seem to grasp her writing style and it is blocking me from learning much from her. I am going to try and reread it but this will be my third attempt. Do you have any suggetions? I am doing much, much better on the "be present" and connecting part than I was a year ago (and a 180 degree flip from where I was when they were infants) but I need lots and lots of help in this area.
Any suggestions will be taken seriously! Thanks!
Heather
--- In [email protected], momfrohlich73@... wrote:
>
> My son loves to play on the computer a lot. He has some "educational" games that he really enjoys to play. Reader Rabbit, Jump Start, and Clue Finders come to mind. There is also a Math Blaster or something like that.
>
> He also (age 12) has anger issues that sound very similar. I think a lot of my sons yelling came from me because before we started more connected with our children, I was a big yeller. I try to be near when my kids are doing something that often ends in fights - usually the computer. I don't have to be as close as often now that we have been doing it for a while. I found that my older son was trying to teach or direct the other kids and they were not listening. I encourage them to come to me when they are having a problem with one another before it gets to an explosion. I point out that none of us liked it when mom was a yeller, but I have to work on it. For us, communication (or lack of good communication) is typically the problem, so we are working on that. Something else I wanted to point out, that my oldest used to think he was always the one getting in trouble because since he was older, I expected him to act differently.
>
> (note, our family has only been unschooling and connection parenting for about a year, so I'm still learning a lot and making adjustments).
>
> Shannan
>
>
> --- On Tue, 3/8/11, Heather in Cincy <hmschleidt@...> wrote:
>
> From: Heather in Cincy <hmschleidt@...>
> Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: 10 year old boy anger issues
> To: [email protected]
> Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2011, 6:20 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> plays video games all day (he does play a lot, but he is very interested in other things just not in what they think is important).
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Heather in Cincy
Meredith, You are so right. He doesn't have a ton of friends in the area and because I am not much of a virtual nut, I have a hard time thinking about possible online friends. Also, I have thought about getting him involved in other activities, not necessarily age-peer groups, but with three other kids in the house younger than him it just seems to be put on the back burner. I need to get more on board with your idea. I asked him today about starting a science "club" with a girl friend of his that also loves science and he got real excited. I called her mom and we agreed to start next week. I figure this might be something he is interested in. He was in a Lego League but unfortunately had a rough experience with it and doesn't want to do it again, but I am still encouraging him, especially if we can join a different group (the leaders were quite disrespectful of the children).
I think you hit the nail on the head saying he feels like the "odd man out". He has often eluded to that, but I have a personality that makes friends with a cardboard box, so I wasn't seeing it as it is for him until you just pointed it out. Thanks! Sometimes it is hard to remove our own journeys or perspectives and put ourselves in their shoes.
We are going to the UWG conference in May if anyone else is going. Maybe he could meet some kids that play Halo or other online games and get connected.
What great insight I have already received!
Heather
I think you hit the nail on the head saying he feels like the "odd man out". He has often eluded to that, but I have a personality that makes friends with a cardboard box, so I wasn't seeing it as it is for him until you just pointed it out. Thanks! Sometimes it is hard to remove our own journeys or perspectives and put ourselves in their shoes.
We are going to the UWG conference in May if anyone else is going. Maybe he could meet some kids that play Halo or other online games and get connected.
What great insight I have already received!
Heather
--- In [email protected], "plaidpanties666" <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
>
> "Heather in Cincy" <hmschleidt@> wrote:
> >He also does not like sports very much and feels like he has a hard time making friends because they always want to play sports and he would rather do science experiments or art projects or build with legos.
> ***************
>
> It seems like the biggest issue is he's the "odd man out" and its wrecking his self esteem. He looks around, and everyone else has different interests and strengths. Its up to you to help him find his real peer group.
>
> Find a Lego League. Find a science club of some kind. Check at zoos, botanical gardens and local community colleges for classes and clubs with "sciency" themes or art thems he might like. Check with all your local museums and even go outside "local" if there aren't good resources in the area. Check with area homeschoolers to see if anyone is putting together group science or art classes and get involved.
>
> Focusing on spelling is a red herring. If he seems somehow desperate to learn to spell, and has a logical turn of mind then it might be more helpful to steer him away from any kind of phonics-based spelling program and look into the sort of thing spelling bee champs use - breaking the words down by their historical roots and seeing Those patterns.
>
> ---Meredith
>
Heather in Cincy
Nance, I can do something about grandma and grandpa, but I just have to get up the nerve to finally say something. I have such issues that stem from far back with my mother and because of that I tend to walk on eggshells around her. My husband gets very angry that I don't stand up to her. I am usually very tight with my father but not on the homeschooling thing. It is the only issue that causes my dad to get upset. And, it's not even the homeschooling issue - it's the unschooling one. I have finally gotten to a point where my mother actually joins us at homeschooling events and has a pleasant attitude about it. My kids love their grandparents, so I am going to have to figure out how and what to say and stand up for them while maintaining the relationship for them. I'll ponder this awhile but am open to suggestions from anyone, especially those that have BTDT.
Heather
Heather
--- In [email protected], "marbleface@..." <marbleface@...> wrote:
>
> Can you do anything about grandma and grandpa? "You know your grandson would love to keep visiting you but. . . "
>
> Nance
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "Heather in Cincy" <hmschleidt@> wrote:
> >
> > To answer several of your questions: He tells me he is angry but can't verbalize why. To be honest, recently he spent time with grandma and grandpa who are disapproving of our methods and make "sly" comments. I told him this last time that he never had to go over there if he felt uncomfortable and then he started to cry and said he liked going over there but it was hard to hear them say that he only plays video games all day (he does play a lot, but he is very interested in other things just not in what they think is important).
> >
> >
>
Tina Tarbutton
We live with my mother and stepfather. We moved in to help them out, so
before moving in I had a talk with them each, separately. I didn't attack
them about it, but I made it clear that Parker and I (with input from
Draven's father) were raising him the way we saw fit. If they had any
problems they were free to discuss them with me privately, but please don't
make comments to Draven, or in front of Draven about it.
I know they don't like that his sleep schedule isn't typical, and they don't
like that he spends a significant amount of time on video games. It really
bothers them that we don't make him help around the house and that he's
allowed to say no when we ask. My mom is firmly on board with "Your kid,
your choice" but my stepfather has a harder time with it. He has
occasionally caught Draven alone and given him a mini-lecture on what to do
or not to do when taking things to the kitchen. I've reminded him multiple
times that I'd rather him speak to me about things that are bothering him
about Draven, he's getting better about it.
With my father it's another story. He is famous for quizzing everyone
(including adult friends) on pointless bits of knowledge and going into
"teacher mode" when they don't know the answer. Draven knows this is just
his style and therefore sticks with me when we're over there so I can
intervene. When he is occasionally alone with him Draven has learned to
either listen to the lecture but not take it to heart, or politely change
the subject. He loves my father and understands that it's just his
personality and not something personal with Draven. I don't tell my father
much about unschooling and he's (finally) stopped asking. We know we won't
agree so we make it a point to avoid the topic altogether.
So, there's two different ways I've handled it. One is up front and direct,
the other is basically agreeing to disagree and both involve being there to
protect Draven.
Tina
On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 12:59 AM, Heather in Cincy
<hmschleidt@...>wrote:
unschoolinguntitled.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
before moving in I had a talk with them each, separately. I didn't attack
them about it, but I made it clear that Parker and I (with input from
Draven's father) were raising him the way we saw fit. If they had any
problems they were free to discuss them with me privately, but please don't
make comments to Draven, or in front of Draven about it.
I know they don't like that his sleep schedule isn't typical, and they don't
like that he spends a significant amount of time on video games. It really
bothers them that we don't make him help around the house and that he's
allowed to say no when we ask. My mom is firmly on board with "Your kid,
your choice" but my stepfather has a harder time with it. He has
occasionally caught Draven alone and given him a mini-lecture on what to do
or not to do when taking things to the kitchen. I've reminded him multiple
times that I'd rather him speak to me about things that are bothering him
about Draven, he's getting better about it.
With my father it's another story. He is famous for quizzing everyone
(including adult friends) on pointless bits of knowledge and going into
"teacher mode" when they don't know the answer. Draven knows this is just
his style and therefore sticks with me when we're over there so I can
intervene. When he is occasionally alone with him Draven has learned to
either listen to the lecture but not take it to heart, or politely change
the subject. He loves my father and understands that it's just his
personality and not something personal with Draven. I don't tell my father
much about unschooling and he's (finally) stopped asking. We know we won't
agree so we make it a point to avoid the topic altogether.
So, there's two different ways I've handled it. One is up front and direct,
the other is basically agreeing to disagree and both involve being there to
protect Draven.
Tina
On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 12:59 AM, Heather in Cincy
<hmschleidt@...>wrote:
> My kids love their grandparents, so I am going to have to figure out how--
> and what to say and stand up for them while maintaining the relationship for
> them. I'll ponder this awhile but am open to suggestions from anyone,
> especially those that have BTDT.
>
> Heather
>
>
unschoolinguntitled.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
As a matter of fact I have. I highly recommend "Connection Parenting" by Pam Leo. It was a book that had been suggested to me. It helps you to also evaluate your upbringing and how our own past effects us now. You can get it audio or paperback (I have both lol... one I read and the other one my husband and I listen to together and discuss... that has helped us be on the same page).
It helped me a lot to also find a local group of like-minded people. I feel blessed that there is an unschooling Meetup group in my area. The organizer also happens to be the organizer for ReThinking Everything conference (www.rethinkingeverything.net) Which, if you can make a trip to TX over Labor Day Weekend is SO worth the cost. There is a list of book suggestions on the website too. The link is a little hidden, go to "what is unschooling", then look on the side bar and you'll see a link for books.
Shannan
It helped me a lot to also find a local group of like-minded people. I feel blessed that there is an unschooling Meetup group in my area. The organizer also happens to be the organizer for ReThinking Everything conference (www.rethinkingeverything.net) Which, if you can make a trip to TX over Labor Day Weekend is SO worth the cost. There is a list of book suggestions on the website too. The link is a little hidden, go to "what is unschooling", then look on the side bar and you'll see a link for books.
Shannan
--- On Wed, 3/9/11, Heather in Cincy <hmschleidt@...> wrote:
From: Heather in Cincy <hmschleidt@...>
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: 10 year old boy anger issues
To: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, March 9, 2011, 11:46 PM
BTW, I have read about everything under the sun about unschooling, but connection parenting is still fairly new to me. Did you read anything, either online or bookwise, that really has helped you in your beginning phase?
Do you have any suggetions?
Any suggestions will be taken seriously! Thanks!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Heather in Cincy
Shannan, So interesting that you mention the RE conference. I was on the website last night at 3 am trying to figure out how to afford that AND the UWG conference in one year. We were just in Dallas with friends and want to go back in July and visit them (they are WAY not unschoolers and WAY not like-minded), but there is a wonderful friendship history there and we love each others' families a lot, so we will stay with them in July, but I don't want to stay with them for the conference as I would like to be in the hotel. My hubby is out of town right now but when he gets back I am going to ask him about going to Dallas in September. I'll let you know if we are coming. I think the conference will be a little out of my husband's comfort zone as in very radical, but I have talked to him on many occasions about moving in that direction (we don't do bedtimes or control their eating and let them direct their studies (usually! ) but there is still a long way to go to being completely child-led.
I will get the book you suggest. My husband comes from a VERY authoritarian family so we have both made a lot of progress but I didn't have as far to come. Thanks for the suggestion. I am on it!!
Heather
I will get the book you suggest. My husband comes from a VERY authoritarian family so we have both made a lot of progress but I didn't have as far to come. Thanks for the suggestion. I am on it!!
Heather
--- In [email protected], momfrohlich73@... wrote:
>
> As a matter of fact I have. I highly recommend "Connection Parenting" by Pam Leo. It was a book that had been suggested to me. It helps you to also evaluate your upbringing and how our own past effects us now. You can get it audio or paperback (I have both lol... one I read and the other one my husband and I listen to together and discuss... that has helped us be on the same page).
>
> It helped me a lot to also find a local group of like-minded people. I feel blessed that there is an unschooling Meetup group in my area. The organizer also happens to be the organizer for ReThinking Everything conference (www.rethinkingeverything.net) Which, if you can make a trip to TX over Labor Day Weekend is SO worth the cost. There is a list of book suggestions on the website too. The link is a little hidden, go to "what is unschooling", then look on the side bar and you'll see a link for books.
>
> Shannan
>
> --- On Wed, 3/9/11, Heather in Cincy <hmschleidt@...> wrote:
>
> From: Heather in Cincy <hmschleidt@...>
> Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: 10 year old boy anger issues
> To: [email protected]
> Date: Wednesday, March 9, 2011, 11:46 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> BTW, I have read about everything under the sun about unschooling, but connection parenting is still fairly new to me. Did you read anything, either online or bookwise, that really has helped you in your beginning phase?
> Do you have any suggetions?
>
> Any suggestions will be taken seriously! Thanks!
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
plaidpanties666
Snort! Mo went to her first sleepover last weekend (I was probably more nervous than she was, she still essentially sleeps in my bedroom!) and when she came home the next day I asked if she had stayed up all night. She dripped scorn on my as she explained "It wasn't a Slumber Party, just a sleepover, so of course we didn't stay up all night."
Apparantly I know less about the proper forms than she does ;)
---Meredith
"marbleface@..." <marbleface@...> wrote:
Apparantly I know less about the proper forms than she does ;)
---Meredith
"marbleface@..." <marbleface@...> wrote:
>
> But JJ, if he hasn't been to dozens of birthday parties over the years with people his exact age, how will he know what to do? What about socialization? How will he know how to eat the cake and ice cream! :)
>
> Nance
angie young
My son plays Halo all of the time. It is like his all time favorite game. We have every one of them as a matter of fact. I'll ask my son if it will be ok to give your son his gamer name so they can play together online. My son plays both the computer and Xbox 360 Halos online. Oh and he's 12 by the way.
Angie Y.
To: [email protected]
From: hmschleidt@...
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 05:55:09 +0000
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: 10 year old boy anger issues
Meredith, You are so right. He doesn't have a ton of friends in the area and because I am not much of a virtual nut, I have a hard time thinking about possible online friends. Also, I have thought about getting him involved in other activities, not necessarily age-peer groups, but with three other kids in the house younger than him it just seems to be put on the back burner. I need to get more on board with your idea. I asked him today about starting a science "club" with a girl friend of his that also loves science and he got real excited. I called her mom and we agreed to start next week. I figure this might be something he is interested in. He was in a Lego League but unfortunately had a rough experience with it and doesn't want to do it again, but I am still encouraging him, especially if we can join a different group (the leaders were quite disrespectful of the children).
I think you hit the nail on the head saying he feels like the "odd man out". He has often eluded to that, but I have a personality that makes friends with a cardboard box, so I wasn't seeing it as it is for him until you just pointed it out. Thanks! Sometimes it is hard to remove our own journeys or perspectives and put ourselves in their shoes.
We are going to the UWG conference in May if anyone else is going. Maybe he could meet some kids that play Halo or other online games and get connected.
What great insight I have already received!
Heather
Angie Y.
To: [email protected]
From: hmschleidt@...
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 05:55:09 +0000
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: 10 year old boy anger issues
Meredith, You are so right. He doesn't have a ton of friends in the area and because I am not much of a virtual nut, I have a hard time thinking about possible online friends. Also, I have thought about getting him involved in other activities, not necessarily age-peer groups, but with three other kids in the house younger than him it just seems to be put on the back burner. I need to get more on board with your idea. I asked him today about starting a science "club" with a girl friend of his that also loves science and he got real excited. I called her mom and we agreed to start next week. I figure this might be something he is interested in. He was in a Lego League but unfortunately had a rough experience with it and doesn't want to do it again, but I am still encouraging him, especially if we can join a different group (the leaders were quite disrespectful of the children).
I think you hit the nail on the head saying he feels like the "odd man out". He has often eluded to that, but I have a personality that makes friends with a cardboard box, so I wasn't seeing it as it is for him until you just pointed it out. Thanks! Sometimes it is hard to remove our own journeys or perspectives and put ourselves in their shoes.
We are going to the UWG conference in May if anyone else is going. Maybe he could meet some kids that play Halo or other online games and get connected.
What great insight I have already received!
Heather
--- In [email protected], "plaidpanties666" <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
>
> "Heather in Cincy" <hmschleidt@> wrote:
> >He also does not like sports very much and feels like he has a hard time making friends because they always want to play sports and he would rather do science experiments or art projects or build with legos.
> ***************
>
> It seems like the biggest issue is he's the "odd man out" and its wrecking his self esteem. He looks around, and everyone else has different interests and strengths. Its up to you to help him find his real peer group.
>
> Find a Lego League. Find a science club of some kind. Check at zoos, botanical gardens and local community colleges for classes and clubs with "sciency" themes or art thems he might like. Check with all your local museums and even go outside "local" if there aren't good resources in the area. Check with area homeschoolers to see if anyone is putting together group science or art classes and get involved.
>
> Focusing on spelling is a red herring. If he seems somehow desperate to learn to spell, and has a logical turn of mind then it might be more helpful to steer him away from any kind of phonics-based spelling program and look into the sort of thing spelling bee champs use - breaking the words down by their historical roots and seeing Those patterns.
>
> ---Meredith
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lovejoy
You are an adult and a parent. *BE* an adult and a parent.
I have often suggested telling parents/in-laws that they had their turn to be parents.
If they think they did a GOOD job as parents, they need to BACK OFF and trust you and let you parent your own child/ren as you see fit.
If they think they did a BAD job, they DEFINITELY need to BACK OFF and allow you to not perpetuate the bad parenting model you had.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
-----Original Message-----
From: Heather in Cincy <hmschleidt@...>
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: 10 year old boy anger issues
Nance, I can do something about grandma and grandpa, but I just have to get up
the nerve to finally say something. I have such issues that stem from far back
with my mother and because of that I tend to walk on eggshells around her. My
husband gets very angry that I don't stand up to her. I am usually very tight
with my father but not on the homeschooling thing. It is the only issue that
causes my dad to get upset. And, it's not even the homeschooling issue - it's
the unschooling one. I have finally gotten to a point where my mother actually
joins us at homeschooling events and has a pleasant attitude about it. My kids
love their grandparents, so I am going to have to figure out how and what to say
and stand up for them while maintaining the relationship for them. I'll ponder
this awhile but am open to suggestions from anyone, especially those that have
BTDT.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have often suggested telling parents/in-laws that they had their turn to be parents.
If they think they did a GOOD job as parents, they need to BACK OFF and trust you and let you parent your own child/ren as you see fit.
If they think they did a BAD job, they DEFINITELY need to BACK OFF and allow you to not perpetuate the bad parenting model you had.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
-----Original Message-----
From: Heather in Cincy <hmschleidt@...>
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: 10 year old boy anger issues
Nance, I can do something about grandma and grandpa, but I just have to get up
the nerve to finally say something. I have such issues that stem from far back
with my mother and because of that I tend to walk on eggshells around her. My
husband gets very angry that I don't stand up to her. I am usually very tight
with my father but not on the homeschooling thing. It is the only issue that
causes my dad to get upset. And, it's not even the homeschooling issue - it's
the unschooling one. I have finally gotten to a point where my mother actually
joins us at homeschooling events and has a pleasant attitude about it. My kids
love their grandparents, so I am going to have to figure out how and what to say
and stand up for them while maintaining the relationship for them. I'll ponder
this awhile but am open to suggestions from anyone, especially those that have
BTDT.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
We can't know exactly what words you can use that will work for you. I think Kelly's suggestion is great but you know your history. We all have histories with our parents, of course, but some are more difficult than others. But if you don't stand up for your child, who will?
Nance
Nance
--- In [email protected], Kelly Lovejoy <kbcdlovejo@...> wrote:
>
> You are an adult and a parent. *BE* an adult and a parent.
>
>
> I have often suggested telling parents/in-laws that they had their turn to be parents.
>
>
> If they think they did a GOOD job as parents, they need to BACK OFF and trust you and let you parent your own child/ren as you see fit.
>
>
> If they think they did a BAD job, they DEFINITELY need to BACK OFF and allow you to not perpetuate the bad parenting model you had.
>
>
>
>
> ~Kelly
>
> Kelly Lovejoy
> "There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Heather in Cincy <hmschleidt@...>
> Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: 10 year old boy anger issues
>
>
> Nance, I can do something about grandma and grandpa, but I just have to get up
> the nerve to finally say something. I have such issues that stem from far back
> with my mother and because of that I tend to walk on eggshells around her. My
> husband gets very angry that I don't stand up to her. I am usually very tight
> with my father but not on the homeschooling thing. It is the only issue that
> causes my dad to get upset. And, it's not even the homeschooling issue - it's
> the unschooling one. I have finally gotten to a point where my mother actually
> joins us at homeschooling events and has a pleasant attitude about it. My kids
> love their grandparents, so I am going to have to figure out how and what to say
> and stand up for them while maintaining the relationship for them. I'll ponder
> this awhile but am open to suggestions from anyone, especially those that have
> BTDT.
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
sharon
"If they think they did a GOOD job as parents, they need to BACK OFF and trust you and let you parent your own child/ren as you see fit.
If they think they did a BAD job, they DEFINITELY need to BACK OFF and allow you to not perpetuate the bad parenting model you had."
Kelly Lovejoy
Love this, Kelly! I hope you don't mind, I am quoting you on FB.
Thanks,
Sharon
If they think they did a BAD job, they DEFINITELY need to BACK OFF and allow you to not perpetuate the bad parenting model you had."
Kelly Lovejoy
Love this, Kelly! I hope you don't mind, I am quoting you on FB.
Thanks,
Sharon
yeheun513
Hi Heather,
I know this is going to sound strange but I can relate to your child. I remember being frustrated with spelling and wanting to do better. I remember wanting my parents to buy me a spell check game so I can improve. I remember wanting to own a set of encyclopedia just so I can learn more. I usually got good grades but when I didn't, I wanted my parents to punish me for not getting an A. Sounds crazy but I had a hunger to be challenged and my parents lackadaisical attitude towards my academics felt like neglect. Of course, they had complete faith in me that I will do well. They never punished me and instead said I can do better next time. I remember being so upset over this. Perhaps, you can have him tested. Maybe there's something there that needs attention. There's nothing more frustrating than wanting to learn but can't for one reason or another. Sounds like he has a bit of perfectionistic tendencies as well as a strong drive. Books like The Highly Sensitive Child and The Spirited Child has helped me understand these traits a little better. What I do stress is the importance of having at least one good friend to talk to. It might comfort him to know that at least one friend understands what he's going through.
Wishing you the best,
min
I know this is going to sound strange but I can relate to your child. I remember being frustrated with spelling and wanting to do better. I remember wanting my parents to buy me a spell check game so I can improve. I remember wanting to own a set of encyclopedia just so I can learn more. I usually got good grades but when I didn't, I wanted my parents to punish me for not getting an A. Sounds crazy but I had a hunger to be challenged and my parents lackadaisical attitude towards my academics felt like neglect. Of course, they had complete faith in me that I will do well. They never punished me and instead said I can do better next time. I remember being so upset over this. Perhaps, you can have him tested. Maybe there's something there that needs attention. There's nothing more frustrating than wanting to learn but can't for one reason or another. Sounds like he has a bit of perfectionistic tendencies as well as a strong drive. Books like The Highly Sensitive Child and The Spirited Child has helped me understand these traits a little better. What I do stress is the importance of having at least one good friend to talk to. It might comfort him to know that at least one friend understands what he's going through.
Wishing you the best,
min
--- In [email protected], "Heather in Cincy" <hmschleidt@...> wrote:
He just recently lashed out at me screaming that it is my fault that he can't spell. We unschool, but I also try to encourage him to use online resources or programs if he feels they might help him achieve goals. For example, I bought All About Spelling because he asked me to teach him how to spell. That was over one year ago and he wanted to learn how, asked for a few lessons, then quit. I never pressured him or anything but I am always encouraging him to learn a few words when he wants to write something out. I also always spell for him when he asks. Then, suddenly he just started screaming at me the other day and crying because he can't spell. According to him, it is all my fault.
plaidpanties666
"yeheun513" <mamamia12003@...> wrote:
There are a couple of ideas rolled together here that I want to pull apart.
One of the gaps in conventional parenting is that encouraging and challenging kids gets linked to ideas of punishment and rewards, which isn't particularly healthy. People will naturally push and challenge themselves - some more than others - and some people are naturally competitive, too. It's not uncommon for someone with a goal to set him or herself up with situations where they'll struggle and even fail over and over out of a desire to do More - but it isn't natural to want punishment, that's a conflation of two different things.
Helping a child find his or her true peer group (or even One good friend, as min says) is a good way to set a kid up with an environment that provides the right kind of challenges and support. Its Hard to be the only kid who values Xyz - swimming or sewing or crossword puzzles or whatever - with no-one else to bounce ideas off, no-one to help you climb to that next level of skillfulness.
Competence is a driving motivation for humans - we Want to be skillful in whatever we choose to do. Its easier to accomodate that with a toddler than with a "tween" though. Part of unschooling is going beyond "being your child's best teacher" and seeing yourself as more of a solution center for finding more resources. Other people are fantastic resources! Including other kids, older and younger than your own.
---Meredith
>I wanted my parents to punish me for not getting an A. Sounds crazy but I had a hunger to be challenged and my parents lackadaisical attitude towards my academics felt like neglect. Of course, they had complete faith in me that I will do well. They never punished me and instead said I can do better next time. I remember being so upset over this.*******************
There are a couple of ideas rolled together here that I want to pull apart.
One of the gaps in conventional parenting is that encouraging and challenging kids gets linked to ideas of punishment and rewards, which isn't particularly healthy. People will naturally push and challenge themselves - some more than others - and some people are naturally competitive, too. It's not uncommon for someone with a goal to set him or herself up with situations where they'll struggle and even fail over and over out of a desire to do More - but it isn't natural to want punishment, that's a conflation of two different things.
>>What I do stress is the importance of having at least one good friend to talk to. It might comfort him to know that at least one friend understands what he's going through.****************
Helping a child find his or her true peer group (or even One good friend, as min says) is a good way to set a kid up with an environment that provides the right kind of challenges and support. Its Hard to be the only kid who values Xyz - swimming or sewing or crossword puzzles or whatever - with no-one else to bounce ideas off, no-one to help you climb to that next level of skillfulness.
Competence is a driving motivation for humans - we Want to be skillful in whatever we choose to do. Its easier to accomodate that with a toddler than with a "tween" though. Part of unschooling is going beyond "being your child's best teacher" and seeing yourself as more of a solution center for finding more resources. Other people are fantastic resources! Including other kids, older and younger than your own.
---Meredith