Unschooling AND going to school??
colleenelizabethburns
Hello, I'm a mom of a very social almost-four-year old who is slated to (and very excited to) start at a non-competitive, play-based alternative school this fall. At home we are working on a much more free, "unconditional parenting" approach to things that seems very much in line with the unschooling approach (or possibly "radical" unschooling?). We're removing limits on things like food, TV, etc. and saying "Yes" more often. It's working fantastically at the moment!
But then there's the whole School issue. I know that not going to school is kindof the point of unschooling, but do you think it's possible that one can do unschooling at home, and still send a kid to school? Does this even make sense?
So maybe school will be wonderful for her, or maybe I'll end up pulling her out if things don't go well. What I'm nervous about is that our free, non-punitive, non-competitive approach at home will be at odds with what is expected in the classroom.
Of course I think kids do have the ability to understand different place/different people/different expectations. But I wonder if there are other parents out there who are going through this right now with their kids?
Thanks for anything you can offer!!
But then there's the whole School issue. I know that not going to school is kindof the point of unschooling, but do you think it's possible that one can do unschooling at home, and still send a kid to school? Does this even make sense?
So maybe school will be wonderful for her, or maybe I'll end up pulling her out if things don't go well. What I'm nervous about is that our free, non-punitive, non-competitive approach at home will be at odds with what is expected in the classroom.
Of course I think kids do have the ability to understand different place/different people/different expectations. But I wonder if there are other parents out there who are going through this right now with their kids?
Thanks for anything you can offer!!
Joyce Fetteroll
On Feb 10, 2011, at 8:30 AM, colleenelizabethburns wrote:
But it makes it harder to pinpoint what people are discussing here if
the definition of unschooling is expanded so that whatever people do
fits comfortably inside of it. So, no, unschooling while in school
just makes it confusing.
Rather than worrying about definitions, though, look at the effects on
your child.
Much of the damage of school comes from not having a choice about
whether to go and the parents being totally sold on the idea. If she
can come home whenever she wants, that eliminates a big piece.
It will be harder for her to escape the message that she needs school
to learn. I wouldn't flat out disagree which would put her in an
uncomfortable of countering one truth with another truth, neither of
which she really understands where they're coming from. I'd say
something along the lines of "Yes, many people believe that's true
because they've never known anyone who hasn't gone to school."
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I know that not going to school is kindof the point of unschooling,Each child will react differently to school.
> but do you think it's possible that one can do unschooling at home,
> and still send a kid to school?
But it makes it harder to pinpoint what people are discussing here if
the definition of unschooling is expanded so that whatever people do
fits comfortably inside of it. So, no, unschooling while in school
just makes it confusing.
Rather than worrying about definitions, though, look at the effects on
your child.
Much of the damage of school comes from not having a choice about
whether to go and the parents being totally sold on the idea. If she
can come home whenever she wants, that eliminates a big piece.
It will be harder for her to escape the message that she needs school
to learn. I wouldn't flat out disagree which would put her in an
uncomfortable of countering one truth with another truth, neither of
which she really understands where they're coming from. I'd say
something along the lines of "Yes, many people believe that's true
because they've never known anyone who hasn't gone to school."
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
JJ
You are right to anticipate that. It will happen, because School is more competitive than ever and for younger children than ever. I too had a very social, bright four-year-old firstborn who I thought would enjoy some "play" in a pre-school program. She wasn't accepted at the last minute because I had not "trained" her to meet their clean-and-dry at school standards. Then the next year when she was five, I enrolled her in a very good local public school in our affluent neighborhood. We went to the orientation on the Friday before school started Monday and I asked about her sitting up with the first-graders in her mixed grade classroom during naptime, for their story. (She hadn't napped in years.) Absolutely not, what was I thinking? Kindergarteners must lie on their maps for that 20 minutes, like it or not.
So Monday morning she didn't go.
(In the years since, I've been so grateful for her late-blooming bladder and early-changing sleep patterns! Between the two, we became the radical unschoolers I'm not sure we would have done otherwise, given my own competitive schooling, professional background and school-centric colleagues.)
That was fifteen years ago. I can PROMISE you it is much worse now, and the teachers and administrators and parents too, are more stressed and pressured to keep the children competitive than they were then. It's the whole atmosphere and it bleeds through to everything including the messages the children receive about how their world works.
So Monday morning she didn't go.
(In the years since, I've been so grateful for her late-blooming bladder and early-changing sleep patterns! Between the two, we became the radical unschoolers I'm not sure we would have done otherwise, given my own competitive schooling, professional background and school-centric colleagues.)
That was fifteen years ago. I can PROMISE you it is much worse now, and the teachers and administrators and parents too, are more stressed and pressured to keep the children competitive than they were then. It's the whole atmosphere and it bleeds through to everything including the messages the children receive about how their world works.
> Hello, I'm a mom of a very social almost-four-year old
> What I'm nervous about is that our free, non-punitive, non-competitive approach at home will be at odds with what is expected in the classroom.
>
>
JJ
Gotta love auto-spellcheck. MATS. They lie on MATS. Although lying on maps might help them absorb geography facts competitively? ;-)
JJ
(She hadn't napped in years.) Absolutely not, what was I thinking? Kindergarteners must lie on their maps for that 20 minutes, like it or not.
JJ
(She hadn't napped in years.) Absolutely not, what was I thinking? Kindergarteners must lie on their maps for that 20 minutes, like it or not.
JJ
I just happened upon a new NPR blogpost, about what competitiveness has done to science education:
"I think that with all the emphasis on achievement, careers and competitiveness, science education has become with notable bright spots to be sure a joyless, alienating and frustrating experience for millions and millions of kids.
There are those science-fair-winner types and then there's the rest of the class, not grooving on the material and hence, they find out, doomed to mediocre futures. Seems like ambivalence and hostility aren't such surprising responses to such a message. . ."
http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2011/02/10/133652898/its-time-for-a-new-narrative-its-time-for-big-history
"I think that with all the emphasis on achievement, careers and competitiveness, science education has become with notable bright spots to be sure a joyless, alienating and frustrating experience for millions and millions of kids.
There are those science-fair-winner types and then there's the rest of the class, not grooving on the material and hence, they find out, doomed to mediocre futures. Seems like ambivalence and hostility aren't such surprising responses to such a message. . ."
http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2011/02/10/133652898/its-time-for-a-new-narrative-its-time-for-big-history
>it is much worse now, and the teachers and administrators and parents too, are more stressed and pressured to keep the children competitive than they were then. It's the whole atmosphere and it bleeds through to everything including the messages the children receive about how their world works.
> You are right to anticipate that. It will happen, because School is more competitive than ever and for younger children than ever. . . .
>
>
> >
> > What I'm nervous about is that our free, non-punitive, non-competitive approach at home will be at odds with what is expected in the classroom.
> >
> >
>
[email protected]
Can the two of you go to the school and spend some time to see what it is really like? Maybe you have done that already. But that would let both of you have a better idea of what "alternative" means in this case.
And, if she likes it and you can stand it, you may just have to settle for having a happy, unconditionally loved, but schooled kid. :)
Nance
And, if she likes it and you can stand it, you may just have to settle for having a happy, unconditionally loved, but schooled kid. :)
Nance
--- In [email protected], "colleenelizabethburns" <colleen.e.burns@...> wrote:
>
> Hello, I'm a mom of a very social almost-four-year old who is slated to (and very excited to) start at a non-competitive, play-based alternative school this fall. At home we are working on a much more free, "unconditional parenting" approach to things that seems very much in line with the unschooling approach (or possibly "radical" unschooling?). We're removing limits on things like food, TV, etc. and saying "Yes" more often. It's working fantastically at the moment!
>
> But then there's the whole School issue. I know that not going to school is kindof the point of unschooling, but do you think it's possible that one can do unschooling at home, and still send a kid to school? Does this even make sense?
>
> So maybe school will be wonderful for her, or maybe I'll end up pulling her out if things don't go well. What I'm nervous about is that our free, non-punitive, non-competitive approach at home will be at odds with what is expected in the classroom.
>
> Of course I think kids do have the ability to understand different place/different people/different expectations. But I wonder if there are other parents out there who are going through this right now with their kids?
>
> Thanks for anything you can offer!!
>
colleenelizabethburns
Thanks to Nance, JJ and Joyce for your insights. I know it's still early in the game, so I don't know what to expect, but it helps to have info from people who've been there!
I am planning on visiting the school during the day (strongly accepted by all staff). At the open house, I got a very good feeling from the teachers, though it is still certainly school. Though only half-day.
I'm pretty sure they don't sleep on maps ;-) Ha ha!
And I accept what Joyce said, that it doesn't make sense to call it unschooling if your kid goes to school. I just wonder if our arrival at unschooling will be inevitable once we start down this road.
One thing that happened today is that she didn't want to go to her preschool, which she has previously loved (it's only 2 afternoons a week, and we put her in at her request) because of an incident last week where the teacher told her to stop crying. We always empathise with tears, and teach that it's okay to cry.
I tried to cajole her into changing her mind, and she said yes, but then immediately launched into some familiar "naughty" behaviour. I quickly changed tunes, said YES to staying home, and after a bit, she returned to the calm happy sweet kid I've been seeing more & more of since taking an unschooling approach to parenting.
So this is the kind of thing I think might make school difficult, the difference of expectations. So I feel like we might end up doing unschooling or some form of home schooling just because we're heading down this path. If she's getting first-class treatment at home, why would she settle for anything less?
I am planning on visiting the school during the day (strongly accepted by all staff). At the open house, I got a very good feeling from the teachers, though it is still certainly school. Though only half-day.
I'm pretty sure they don't sleep on maps ;-) Ha ha!
And I accept what Joyce said, that it doesn't make sense to call it unschooling if your kid goes to school. I just wonder if our arrival at unschooling will be inevitable once we start down this road.
One thing that happened today is that she didn't want to go to her preschool, which she has previously loved (it's only 2 afternoons a week, and we put her in at her request) because of an incident last week where the teacher told her to stop crying. We always empathise with tears, and teach that it's okay to cry.
I tried to cajole her into changing her mind, and she said yes, but then immediately launched into some familiar "naughty" behaviour. I quickly changed tunes, said YES to staying home, and after a bit, she returned to the calm happy sweet kid I've been seeing more & more of since taking an unschooling approach to parenting.
So this is the kind of thing I think might make school difficult, the difference of expectations. So I feel like we might end up doing unschooling or some form of home schooling just because we're heading down this path. If she's getting first-class treatment at home, why would she settle for anything less?
--- In [email protected], "marbleface@..." <marbleface@...> wrote:
>
> Can the two of you go to the school and spend some time to see what it is really like? Maybe you have done that already. But that would let both of you have a better idea of what "alternative" means in this case.
>
> And, if she likes it and you can stand it, you may just have to settle for having a happy, unconditionally loved, but schooled kid. :)
>
> Nance
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "colleenelizabethburns" <colleen.e.burns@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello, I'm a mom of a very social almost-four-year old who is slated to (and very excited to) start at a non-competitive, play-based alternative school this fall. At home we are working on a much more free, "unconditional parenting" approach to things that seems very much in line with the unschooling approach (or possibly "radical" unschooling?). We're removing limits on things like food, TV, etc. and saying "Yes" more often. It's working fantastically at the moment!
> >
> > But then there's the whole School issue. I know that not going to school is kindof the point of unschooling, but do you think it's possible that one can do unschooling at home, and still send a kid to school? Does this even make sense?
> >
> > So maybe school will be wonderful for her, or maybe I'll end up pulling her out if things don't go well. What I'm nervous about is that our free, non-punitive, non-competitive approach at home will be at odds with what is expected in the classroom.
> >
> > Of course I think kids do have the ability to understand different place/different people/different expectations. But I wonder if there are other parents out there who are going through this right now with their kids?
> >
> > Thanks for anything you can offer!!
> >
>
[email protected]
I wonder what is going on in a 4-year-old's mind when she is very excited to start school. Where did she get the idea that this is what she should be excited about? In this case, two-day a week preschool is part of the mix. They get the message constantly that this is the place to be and there is more to come and it is GREAT!
No, I don't think unschooling will be inevitable if you start down the road of schooling. Not sure I even understand the question. :)
But if you and your child are lucky enough to be able to stay home, but you (and she?) feel she needs more interaction with other kids, and that's the reason you are headed to school, what other options do you have?
Nance
No, I don't think unschooling will be inevitable if you start down the road of schooling. Not sure I even understand the question. :)
But if you and your child are lucky enough to be able to stay home, but you (and she?) feel she needs more interaction with other kids, and that's the reason you are headed to school, what other options do you have?
Nance
--- In [email protected], "colleenelizabethburns" <colleen.e.burns@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks to Nance, JJ and Joyce for your insights. I know it's still early in the game, so I don't know what to expect, but it helps to have info from people who've been there!
>
> I am planning on visiting the school during the day (strongly accepted by all staff). At the open house, I got a very good feeling from the teachers, though it is still certainly school. Though only half-day.
>
> I'm pretty sure they don't sleep on maps ;-) Ha ha!
>
> And I accept what Joyce said, that it doesn't make sense to call it unschooling if your kid goes to school. I just wonder if our arrival at unschooling will be inevitable once we start down this road.
>
> One thing that happened today is that she didn't want to go to her preschool, which she has previously loved (it's only 2 afternoons a week, and we put her in at her request) because of an incident last week where the teacher told her to stop crying. We always empathise with tears, and teach that it's okay to cry.
>
> I tried to cajole her into changing her mind, and she said yes, but then immediately launched into some familiar "naughty" behaviour. I quickly changed tunes, said YES to staying home, and after a bit, she returned to the calm happy sweet kid I've been seeing more & more of since taking an unschooling approach to parenting.
>
> So this is the kind of thing I think might make school difficult, the difference of expectations. So I feel like we might end up doing unschooling or some form of home schooling just because we're heading down this path. If she's getting first-class treatment at home, why would she settle for anything less?
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "marbleface@" <marbleface@> wrote:
> >
> > Can the two of you go to the school and spend some time to see what it is really like? Maybe you have done that already. But that would let both of you have a better idea of what "alternative" means in this case.
> >
> > And, if she likes it and you can stand it, you may just have to settle for having a happy, unconditionally loved, but schooled kid. :)
> >
> > Nance
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In [email protected], "colleenelizabethburns" <colleen.e.burns@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello, I'm a mom of a very social almost-four-year old who is slated to (and very excited to) start at a non-competitive, play-based alternative school this fall. At home we are working on a much more free, "unconditional parenting" approach to things that seems very much in line with the unschooling approach (or possibly "radical" unschooling?). We're removing limits on things like food, TV, etc. and saying "Yes" more often. It's working fantastically at the moment!
> > >
> > > But then there's the whole School issue. I know that not going to school is kindof the point of unschooling, but do you think it's possible that one can do unschooling at home, and still send a kid to school? Does this even make sense?
> > >
> > > So maybe school will be wonderful for her, or maybe I'll end up pulling her out if things don't go well. What I'm nervous about is that our free, non-punitive, non-competitive approach at home will be at odds with what is expected in the classroom.
> > >
> > > Of course I think kids do have the ability to understand different place/different people/different expectations. But I wonder if there are other parents out there who are going through this right now with their kids?
> > >
> > > Thanks for anything you can offer!!
> > >
> >
>
plaidpanties666
"colleenelizabethburns" <colleen.e.burns@...> wrote:
You've hit one of the pitfalls of sending children to daycare and school early already! It's easy, with all the messages to parents that they want and need time away from children, to find yourself willing to push and coerce. After all, parenting is hard and you need a break, right? And so you end up with resistance and parenting looking even harder... a self-fulfilling prophecy.
It might help to think about what you want - what are your goals for your daughter? What do you hope for her?
---Meredith
>> I tried to cajole her into changing her mind, and she said yes, but then immediately launched into some familiar "naughty" behaviour.****************
You've hit one of the pitfalls of sending children to daycare and school early already! It's easy, with all the messages to parents that they want and need time away from children, to find yourself willing to push and coerce. After all, parenting is hard and you need a break, right? And so you end up with resistance and parenting looking even harder... a self-fulfilling prophecy.
>>So I feel like we might end up doing unschooling or some form of home schooling just because we're heading down this path.****************
It might help to think about what you want - what are your goals for your daughter? What do you hope for her?
---Meredith
plaidpanties666
"marbleface@..." <marbleface@...> wrote:
There's a Ton of school-is-wonderful-and-fun propaganda aimed at little kids. They get it from books, tv, movies, toys, and other people. Only children and oldest children are more susceptible than kids with an older, school-aged sibling who can tell them the truth about the matter.
And, for a social child, school can look like a party at first - look at alllllll the other kids! So its really important for parents to look for other social outlets for kids like that, otherwise they're creating a not-choice: stay home and be lonely, or go to school and be bored, but surrounded by other people? A social child will pick school.
---Meredith
>***************
> I wonder what is going on in a 4-year-old's mind when she is very excited to start school. Where did she get the idea that this is what she should be excited about?
There's a Ton of school-is-wonderful-and-fun propaganda aimed at little kids. They get it from books, tv, movies, toys, and other people. Only children and oldest children are more susceptible than kids with an older, school-aged sibling who can tell them the truth about the matter.
And, for a social child, school can look like a party at first - look at alllllll the other kids! So its really important for parents to look for other social outlets for kids like that, otherwise they're creating a not-choice: stay home and be lonely, or go to school and be bored, but surrounded by other people? A social child will pick school.
---Meredith
Sacha Davis
I have an almost four year old son who we are unschooling, but we also participate in a very grass roots preschool co-op once a week. It's a group of parents and kids that we've known for a couple years and we do it in a home, and they know that our son needs to check out of activities and do his own thing, so it's fine. And parents are always present, no drop off, which is really important to our family.
My son is a wonderful GDI but has many traits that I think would cause him to fail out of even the most liberal play based preschool. He responds poorly to any expectation that he should do any one thing at any particular time, so if there was any of that expectation even at a small level, like that he should come in from playing for snack time, I think we would be talked to about him. Let's just say that I'm very glad to not have him in any official preschool. I can see why boys who are placed into school often don't do well.
So I guess we are kind of unschooling and schooling, but the thing is that I don't consider this co-op we're doing to be school, and I'm not expecting some sort of education from it. It's just fun and my son is enjoying it at the moment and he gets to hang out with and form stronger relationships with other kids. And because our whole family is doing the co-op, it's fun for all of us.
My two cents.
S.
__________________________________
Sacha (39), mommy to Finn (3) & Zivia (0) and wife to Megan (38)
Livin' la vida loca in Georgetown, Seattle
My son is a wonderful GDI but has many traits that I think would cause him to fail out of even the most liberal play based preschool. He responds poorly to any expectation that he should do any one thing at any particular time, so if there was any of that expectation even at a small level, like that he should come in from playing for snack time, I think we would be talked to about him. Let's just say that I'm very glad to not have him in any official preschool. I can see why boys who are placed into school often don't do well.
So I guess we are kind of unschooling and schooling, but the thing is that I don't consider this co-op we're doing to be school, and I'm not expecting some sort of education from it. It's just fun and my son is enjoying it at the moment and he gets to hang out with and form stronger relationships with other kids. And because our whole family is doing the co-op, it's fun for all of us.
My two cents.
S.
__________________________________
Sacha (39), mommy to Finn (3) & Zivia (0) and wife to Megan (38)
Livin' la vida loca in Georgetown, Seattle
On Feb 10, 2011, at 5:30 AM, colleenelizabethburns wrote:
> Hello, I'm a mom of a very social almost-four-year old who is slated to (and very excited to) start at a non-competitive, play-based alternative school this fall. At home we are working on a much more free, "unconditional parenting" approach to things that seems very much in line with the unschooling approach (or possibly "radical" unschooling?). We're removing limits on things like food, TV, etc. and saying "Yes" more often. It's working fantastically at the moment!
>
> But then there's the whole School issue. I know that not going to school is kindof the point of unschooling, but do you think it's possible that one can do unschooling at home, and still send a kid to school? Does this even make sense?
>
> So maybe school will be wonderful for her, or maybe I'll end up pulling her out if things don't go well. What I'm nervous about is that our free, non-punitive, non-competitive approach at home will be at odds with what is expected in the classroom.
>
> Of course I think kids do have the ability to understand different place/different people/different expectations. But I wonder if there are other parents out there who are going through this right now with their kids?
>
> Thanks for anything you can offer!!
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sacha Davis
if someone told my kid to stop crying I would be apoplectic.
__________________________________
Sacha (39), mommy to Finn (3) & Zivia (0) and wife to Megan (38)
Livin' la vida loca in Georgetown, Seattle
__________________________________
Sacha (39), mommy to Finn (3) & Zivia (0) and wife to Megan (38)
Livin' la vida loca in Georgetown, Seattle
On Feb 10, 2011, at 7:19 PM, colleenelizabethburns wrote:
> Thanks to Nance, JJ and Joyce for your insights. I know it's still early in the game, so I don't know what to expect, but it helps to have info from people who've been there!
>
> I am planning on visiting the school during the day (strongly accepted by all staff). At the open house, I got a very good feeling from the teachers, though it is still certainly school. Though only half-day.
>
> I'm pretty sure they don't sleep on maps ;-) Ha ha!
>
> And I accept what Joyce said, that it doesn't make sense to call it unschooling if your kid goes to school. I just wonder if our arrival at unschooling will be inevitable once we start down this road.
>
> One thing that happened today is that she didn't want to go to her preschool, which she has previously loved (it's only 2 afternoons a week, and we put her in at her request) because of an incident last week where the teacher told her to stop crying. We always empathise with tears, and teach that it's okay to cry.
>
> I tried to cajole her into changing her mind, and she said yes, but then immediately launched into some familiar "naughty" behaviour. I quickly changed tunes, said YES to staying home, and after a bit, she returned to the calm happy sweet kid I've been seeing more & more of since taking an unschooling approach to parenting.
>
> So this is the kind of thing I think might make school difficult, the difference of expectations. So I feel like we might end up doing unschooling or some form of home schooling just because we're heading down this path. If she's getting first-class treatment at home, why would she settle for anything less?
>
> --- In [email protected], "marbleface@..." <marbleface@...> wrote:
> >
> > Can the two of you go to the school and spend some time to see what it is really like? Maybe you have done that already. But that would let both of you have a better idea of what "alternative" means in this case.
> >
> > And, if she likes it and you can stand it, you may just have to settle for having a happy, unconditionally loved, but schooled kid. :)
> >
> > Nance
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In [email protected], "colleenelizabethburns" <colleen.e.burns@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello, I'm a mom of a very social almost-four-year old who is slated to (and very excited to) start at a non-competitive, play-based alternative school this fall. At home we are working on a much more free, "unconditional parenting" approach to things that seems very much in line with the unschooling approach (or possibly "radical" unschooling?). We're removing limits on things like food, TV, etc. and saying "Yes" more often. It's working fantastically at the moment!
> > >
> > > But then there's the whole School issue. I know that not going to school is kindof the point of unschooling, but do you think it's possible that one can do unschooling at home, and still send a kid to school? Does this even make sense?
> > >
> > > So maybe school will be wonderful for her, or maybe I'll end up pulling her out if things don't go well. What I'm nervous about is that our free, non-punitive, non-competitive approach at home will be at odds with what is expected in the classroom.
> > >
> > > Of course I think kids do have the ability to understand different place/different people/different expectations. But I wonder if there are other parents out there who are going through this right now with their kids?
> > >
> > > Thanks for anything you can offer!!
> > >
> >
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
Sacha Davis <sacha@...> wrote:
It sounds closer to a play group than preschool - or maybe a "pre" homeschooling co-op if the play is pre-planned.
Organizing or finding something like that is a Great alternative to preschool for kids who are really social.
...what's GDI?
---Meredith
>> So I guess we are kind of unschooling and schooling, but the thing is that I don't consider this co-op we're doing to be school***************
It sounds closer to a play group than preschool - or maybe a "pre" homeschooling co-op if the play is pre-planned.
Organizing or finding something like that is a Great alternative to preschool for kids who are really social.
...what's GDI?
---Meredith
Sacha Davis
God D*amned Independent
__________________________________
Sacha (39), mommy to Finn (3) & Zivia (0) and wife to Megan (38)
Livin' la vida loca in Georgetown, Seattle
__________________________________
Sacha (39), mommy to Finn (3) & Zivia (0) and wife to Megan (38)
Livin' la vida loca in Georgetown, Seattle
On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:12 AM, plaidpanties666 wrote:
> Sacha Davis <sacha@...> wrote:
> >> So I guess we are kind of unschooling and schooling, but the thing is that I don't consider this co-op we're doing to be school
> ***************
>
> It sounds closer to a play group than preschool - or maybe a "pre" homeschooling co-op if the play is pre-planned.
>
> Organizing or finding something like that is a Great alternative to preschool for kids who are really social.
>
> ...what's GDI?
>
> ---Meredith
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Does anyone but me remember when the 4 and under crowd was not expected to go to anything more formal than a play group? :)
Nance
Nance
--- In [email protected], "plaidpanties666" <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
>
> Sacha Davis <sacha@> wrote:
> >> So I guess we are kind of unschooling and schooling, but the thing is that I don't consider this co-op we're doing to be school
> ***************
>
> It sounds closer to a play group than preschool - or maybe a "pre" homeschooling co-op if the play is pre-planned.
>
> Organizing or finding something like that is a Great alternative to preschool for kids who are really social.
>
> ...what's GDI?
>
> ---Meredith
>
colleenelizabethburns
There has been so much interesting discussion on this! What a great group this is!
A couple of responses:
""I don't think unschooling will be inevitable if you start down the road of schooling.""
Sorry--the road I was referring to was the road of parenting in line with unschooling principals: giving choices, saying YES, exploring interests on our own, not requiring things like chores, empathising with feelings rather than correcting behaviours, etc.
""You've hit one of the pitfalls of sending children to daycare and school early already! It's easy, with all the messages to parents that they want and need time away from children, to find yourself willing to push and coerce. After all, parenting is hard and you need a break, right? And so you end up with resistance and parenting looking even harder... a self-fulfilling prophecy. ""
You're right!!! This is a big topic with my stay-at-home mom friends. Everyone's always talking about needing their breaks, and even telling me I need a break! At times I have somewhat bought into it, but I have also questioned it. BUT when I parent in a more positive way (described above) I find myself energised by the kids, and not needing to get away from them! It really is amazing and I wish I'd known about this approach from birth.
I'm just glad I've found it now and that there are such thoughtful parents out there who are into thinking and talking about parenting gently and positively.
A couple of responses:
""I don't think unschooling will be inevitable if you start down the road of schooling.""
Sorry--the road I was referring to was the road of parenting in line with unschooling principals: giving choices, saying YES, exploring interests on our own, not requiring things like chores, empathising with feelings rather than correcting behaviours, etc.
""You've hit one of the pitfalls of sending children to daycare and school early already! It's easy, with all the messages to parents that they want and need time away from children, to find yourself willing to push and coerce. After all, parenting is hard and you need a break, right? And so you end up with resistance and parenting looking even harder... a self-fulfilling prophecy. ""
You're right!!! This is a big topic with my stay-at-home mom friends. Everyone's always talking about needing their breaks, and even telling me I need a break! At times I have somewhat bought into it, but I have also questioned it. BUT when I parent in a more positive way (described above) I find myself energised by the kids, and not needing to get away from them! It really is amazing and I wish I'd known about this approach from birth.
I'm just glad I've found it now and that there are such thoughtful parents out there who are into thinking and talking about parenting gently and positively.
--- In [email protected], "marbleface@..." <marbleface@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone but me remember when the 4 and under crowd was not expected to go to anything more formal than a play group? :)
>
> Nance
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "plaidpanties666" <plaidpanties666@> wrote:
> >
> > Sacha Davis <sacha@> wrote:
> > >> So I guess we are kind of unschooling and schooling, but the thing is that I don't consider this co-op we're doing to be school
> > ***************
> >
> > It sounds closer to a play group than preschool - or maybe a "pre" homeschooling co-op if the play is pre-planned.
> >
> > Organizing or finding something like that is a Great alternative to preschool for kids who are really social.
> >
> > ...what's GDI?
> >
> > ---Meredith
> >
>
[email protected]
This certainly sounds doable in preschool. But as your daughter gets further along in school, and it absorbs more of her time and makes more demands of her time at home, how will that work?
Nance
Nance
--- In [email protected], "colleenelizabethburns" <colleen.e.burns@...> wrote:
>
> There has been so much interesting discussion on this! What a great group this is!
>
> A couple of responses:
>
> ""I don't think unschooling will be inevitable if you start down the road of schooling.""
>
> Sorry--the road I was referring to was the road of parenting in line with unschooling principals: giving choices, saying YES, exploring interests on our own, not requiring things like chores, empathising with feelings rather than correcting behaviours, etc.
>
catfish_friend
But, what if the school is like this:
- child can attend 0-3 days/week
- child can come later or earlier without punishment or reprimand
- when at school, the teachers are using nonviolent communication, project-based curriculum
- classes are made up of up to 3 years age ranges
- non-school days can be independent study of one's own choosing or a multitude of options or suggestions provided by the school (including a field trip, reading, worksheet, etc.)
I'm not meaning to hijack the thread, but this is a real public school option for us next year and because my husband is not yet on board with radical unschooling, I'm wondering if I can do something like this for our 4.5 year old and somehow manage to still maintain the trust and connection with her that I've built up so far.
BTW, she has been going to a play-based preschool for this school year and last. The teachers there are facilitators more than teacher-y teachers. Kids are not forced or required to do any activity at any given time, though there are options presented if they want. Any interest shown in something is nurtured. The kids are able to eat their lunches at anytime or go in or out into the edible organic garden at their whim. We also never forced our daughter to go. Any day she preferred to stay home, she could. She is very social and an extrovert through and through. Often on vacations whether to the beach or visiting relatives, she comments on missing her friends or wanting to know when she would get to go back to school. She even told me that she liked me today which I took as a huge compliment as she often already says she loves me. But, it's clear that I'm not her playmate and that she likes having time with them. Part of me keeps thinking that putting her in "school" if it's with part-time homeschoolers, may be of greater benefit with her social inclinations.
I guess my question is how might a school as I've described take away from the trust and connection developed by radical unschooling, not to mention whole life learning? And, how much of her social being should I be considering in this decision?
Ceci Hyoun
- child can attend 0-3 days/week
- child can come later or earlier without punishment or reprimand
- when at school, the teachers are using nonviolent communication, project-based curriculum
- classes are made up of up to 3 years age ranges
- non-school days can be independent study of one's own choosing or a multitude of options or suggestions provided by the school (including a field trip, reading, worksheet, etc.)
I'm not meaning to hijack the thread, but this is a real public school option for us next year and because my husband is not yet on board with radical unschooling, I'm wondering if I can do something like this for our 4.5 year old and somehow manage to still maintain the trust and connection with her that I've built up so far.
BTW, she has been going to a play-based preschool for this school year and last. The teachers there are facilitators more than teacher-y teachers. Kids are not forced or required to do any activity at any given time, though there are options presented if they want. Any interest shown in something is nurtured. The kids are able to eat their lunches at anytime or go in or out into the edible organic garden at their whim. We also never forced our daughter to go. Any day she preferred to stay home, she could. She is very social and an extrovert through and through. Often on vacations whether to the beach or visiting relatives, she comments on missing her friends or wanting to know when she would get to go back to school. She even told me that she liked me today which I took as a huge compliment as she often already says she loves me. But, it's clear that I'm not her playmate and that she likes having time with them. Part of me keeps thinking that putting her in "school" if it's with part-time homeschoolers, may be of greater benefit with her social inclinations.
I guess my question is how might a school as I've described take away from the trust and connection developed by radical unschooling, not to mention whole life learning? And, how much of her social being should I be considering in this decision?
Ceci Hyoun
On Feb 10, 2011, at 11:07 AM, Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
> Much of the damage of school comes from not having a choice about
> whether to go and the parents being totally sold on the idea. If she
> can come home whenever she wants, that eliminates a big piece.
>
> It will be harder for her to escape the message that she needs school
> to learn. I wouldn't flat out disagree which would put her in an
> uncomfortable of countering one truth with another truth, neither of
> which she really understands where they're coming from. I'd say
> something along the lines of "Yes, many people believe that's true
> because they've never known anyone who hasn't gone to school."
Schuyler
It's still school. But that's okay, right? It doesn't have to be unschooling to
still be connected parenting. It doesn't have to be unschooling for your
daughter to grow up happy and healthy and playful and curious and engaged. And
given a choice between unschooling in a family where the dad is really, really
unhappy about it and school in a family where the dad is willing to explore the
boundaries of what school means, and happier in his marriage, the latter is
certainly a happier place to be for a child.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: catfish_friend <catfish_friend@...>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, 22 February, 2011 10:43:05
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Unschooling AND going to school??
But, what if the school is like this:
- child can attend 0-3 days/week
- child can come later or earlier without punishment or reprimand
- when at school, the teachers are using nonviolent communication,
project-based curriculum
- classes are made up of up to 3 years age ranges
- non-school days can be independent study of one's own choosing or a multitude
of options or suggestions provided by the school (including a field trip,
reading, worksheet, etc.)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
still be connected parenting. It doesn't have to be unschooling for your
daughter to grow up happy and healthy and playful and curious and engaged. And
given a choice between unschooling in a family where the dad is really, really
unhappy about it and school in a family where the dad is willing to explore the
boundaries of what school means, and happier in his marriage, the latter is
certainly a happier place to be for a child.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: catfish_friend <catfish_friend@...>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, 22 February, 2011 10:43:05
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Unschooling AND going to school??
But, what if the school is like this:
- child can attend 0-3 days/week
- child can come later or earlier without punishment or reprimand
- when at school, the teachers are using nonviolent communication,
project-based curriculum
- classes are made up of up to 3 years age ranges
- non-school days can be independent study of one's own choosing or a multitude
of options or suggestions provided by the school (including a field trip,
reading, worksheet, etc.)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Feb 22, 2011, at 5:43 AM, catfish_friend wrote:
knowledgeable about how and why school effects kids as it does. If you
don't look at the damage it can do you can't take steps to ease the
problem. If you're asking strangers how it will affect your daughter,
you're not looking at your daughter. Trust that she's the best
barometer of what's going on with her.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I guess my question is how might a school as I've described takeThe best thing you can do for her is be observant of her reaction and
> away from the trust and connection developed by radical unschooling,
> not to mention whole life learning? And, how much of her social
> being should I be considering in this decision?
knowledgeable about how and why school effects kids as it does. If you
don't look at the damage it can do you can't take steps to ease the
problem. If you're asking strangers how it will affect your daughter,
you're not looking at your daughter. Trust that she's the best
barometer of what's going on with her.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
catfish_friend <catfish_friend@...> wrote:
It could be a fantastic compromise between what you want and what your husband wants. On the down side, it could end your hopes of homeschooling - after all if school goes well, why not just keep going? Of course, if your child has a bad experience with school you can always pull her out later, but that's something to think about. This is where a lot of "unschooling from birth" families stop unschooling - at the transition to school age. Its Why some unschoolers flinch at "unschooling from birth". You don't really start until you cross this big, big hurdle.
The downside of relying on these kinds of resources is they stop you from thinking. Its easy to simply use them and stop looking for alternatives to school, especially in terms of social connections. It does take some effort, living outside the system, to find ways for your kids to meet and connect with others. That's one of the reasons older kids sometimes choose school - lack of other social opportunities.
Some school families have great relationships. You can certainly take a great deal of unschooling advice to heart on the subject of relationships without unschooling! Keep putting your relationship with your daughter first, and don't fret so much about whether what you're doing is unschooling. In another four years, the question of whether or not you are unschooling may have cleared up on its own ;)
---Meredith
>Why are you asking? Really, that's something to think about. Do you think more highly of yourself if you can say "we unschool?" Do you think it will help other people understand unschool better to say that you unschool And do school? Why do you want the lable?
> But, what if the school is like this:
> - non-school days can be independent study...That doesn't sound like unschooling, though. It sounds like using a kind of curriculum as a guide. That's not a Bad thing, but its not unschooling.
>> because my husband is not yet on board with radical unschooling, I'm wondering if I can do something like this for our 4.5 year old and somehow manage to still maintain the trust and connection with her that I've built up so far.********************
It could be a fantastic compromise between what you want and what your husband wants. On the down side, it could end your hopes of homeschooling - after all if school goes well, why not just keep going? Of course, if your child has a bad experience with school you can always pull her out later, but that's something to think about. This is where a lot of "unschooling from birth" families stop unschooling - at the transition to school age. Its Why some unschoolers flinch at "unschooling from birth". You don't really start until you cross this big, big hurdle.
> BTW, she has been going to a play-based preschool for this school year and last.******************
The downside of relying on these kinds of resources is they stop you from thinking. Its easy to simply use them and stop looking for alternatives to school, especially in terms of social connections. It does take some effort, living outside the system, to find ways for your kids to meet and connect with others. That's one of the reasons older kids sometimes choose school - lack of other social opportunities.
> I guess my question is how might a school as I've described take away from the trust and connection developed by radical unschooling, not to mention whole life learning?******************
Some school families have great relationships. You can certainly take a great deal of unschooling advice to heart on the subject of relationships without unschooling! Keep putting your relationship with your daughter first, and don't fret so much about whether what you're doing is unschooling. In another four years, the question of whether or not you are unschooling may have cleared up on its own ;)
>>And, how much of her social being should I be considering in this decision?Can you find other ways for her to socialize? Does she prefer to socialize with kids as opposed to adults? Some kids have a strong preference for other kids, and that complicates things. If she doesn't prefer other kids, can you be more fun and engaged than you are?
---Meredith