Worse case scenario
Elli
Hi
We've been unschooling for two years. Our daughter, who is 12, wants to go back to school. She doesn't want to "fall behind". She has big visions for her future and believes school is the best pathway. Okay. We are going to figure it out for her.
My husband is taking leadership to call the school and figure out next steps.
He also told me that he thinks we are doing a disservice to our kids, especially our 9 year old son, by unschooling.
He is worried that our son, who hates reading and never writes, will grow up illiterate. He also worries that he will be anti-social. Our son has friends on line but none in person.
And he thinks our son will be angry at us once he grows up for limiting his options as a child.
Please tell me of one unschooled child who has grown up to be angry at his parents for their choice to unschool. Please tell me about a miserable illiterate under-employed or unemployed hermit who was unschooled as a child, maybe even lives with his parents because he can't successfully complete a job application.
I know I sound sarcastic here.
Hubby told me that he has been lying about his belief in unschooling. The things he says to others about what we are doing sounded so sincere.
He talked to my son about doing school at home.
Hubby and I work from home. He is self employed and business is slow right now. I work for a non profit and bring home the bulk of our pay and health insurance.
I think hubby needs to work through how he is going to be involved with our kids, especially our son. We started unschooling when I was home full time. I had a chance to work through my fears and doubts. Hubby may need to do that now.
We've not had an easy time with strewing - the kids really like tv or video games but not much else. And the kids really don't like to go out much. I think hubby is bored with being home with the kids. He's annoyed at being a short order cook for meals on demand. He doesn't like the all-nighters the kids pull when they are into a game or show.
We are working through peaceful parenting issues and hubby has gotten much more peaceful in his communications.
I want to give him space to work through his fears. I don't want his fears to freak out my son.
I think that's it.
I would love to hear some feedback.
Thanks,
Elli
We've been unschooling for two years. Our daughter, who is 12, wants to go back to school. She doesn't want to "fall behind". She has big visions for her future and believes school is the best pathway. Okay. We are going to figure it out for her.
My husband is taking leadership to call the school and figure out next steps.
He also told me that he thinks we are doing a disservice to our kids, especially our 9 year old son, by unschooling.
He is worried that our son, who hates reading and never writes, will grow up illiterate. He also worries that he will be anti-social. Our son has friends on line but none in person.
And he thinks our son will be angry at us once he grows up for limiting his options as a child.
Please tell me of one unschooled child who has grown up to be angry at his parents for their choice to unschool. Please tell me about a miserable illiterate under-employed or unemployed hermit who was unschooled as a child, maybe even lives with his parents because he can't successfully complete a job application.
I know I sound sarcastic here.
Hubby told me that he has been lying about his belief in unschooling. The things he says to others about what we are doing sounded so sincere.
He talked to my son about doing school at home.
Hubby and I work from home. He is self employed and business is slow right now. I work for a non profit and bring home the bulk of our pay and health insurance.
I think hubby needs to work through how he is going to be involved with our kids, especially our son. We started unschooling when I was home full time. I had a chance to work through my fears and doubts. Hubby may need to do that now.
We've not had an easy time with strewing - the kids really like tv or video games but not much else. And the kids really don't like to go out much. I think hubby is bored with being home with the kids. He's annoyed at being a short order cook for meals on demand. He doesn't like the all-nighters the kids pull when they are into a game or show.
We are working through peaceful parenting issues and hubby has gotten much more peaceful in his communications.
I want to give him space to work through his fears. I don't want his fears to freak out my son.
I think that's it.
I would love to hear some feedback.
Thanks,
Elli
rebecca de
I can't wait to here some response on this too.. I don't have a hubby at home
but my oldest boys father almost said the exact thing to me lately and is even
taking me to court to try to force him to be tested and back to school...
Rebecca De Hate
www.the-team.biz/mv978831
http://readingsbyrebecca.vpweb.com
________________________________
From: Elli <elinorsparks@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 12:07:09 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Worse case scenario
Hi
We've been unschooling for two years. Our daughter, who is 12, wants to go back
to school. She doesn't want to "fall behind". She has big visions for her
future and believes school is the best pathway. Okay. We are going to figure
it out for her.
My husband is taking leadership to call the school and figure out next steps.
He also told me that he thinks we are doing a disservice to our kids, especially
our 9 year old son, by unschooling.
He is worried that our son, who hates reading and never writes, will grow up
illiterate. He also worries that he will be anti-social. Our son has friends on
line but none in person.
And he thinks our son will be angry at us once he grows up for limiting his
options as a child.
Please tell me of one unschooled child who has grown up to be angry at his
parents for their choice to unschool. Please tell me about a miserable
illiterate under-employed or unemployed hermit who was unschooled as a child,
maybe even lives with his parents because he can't successfully complete a job
application.
I know I sound sarcastic here.
Hubby told me that he has been lying about his belief in unschooling. The things
he says to others about what we are doing sounded so sincere.
He talked to my son about doing school at home.
Hubby and I work from home. He is self employed and business is slow right now.
I work for a non profit and bring home the bulk of our pay and health insurance.
I think hubby needs to work through how he is going to be involved with our
kids, especially our son. We started unschooling when I was home full time. I
had a chance to work through my fears and doubts. Hubby may need to do that now.
We've not had an easy time with strewing - the kids really like tv or video
games but not much else. And the kids really don't like to go out much. I
think hubby is bored with being home with the kids. He's annoyed at being a
short order cook for meals on demand. He doesn't like the all-nighters the kids
pull when they are into a game or show.
We are working through peaceful parenting issues and hubby has gotten much more
peaceful in his communications.
I want to give him space to work through his fears. I don't want his fears to
freak out my son.
I think that's it.
I would love to hear some feedback.
Thanks,
Elli
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
but my oldest boys father almost said the exact thing to me lately and is even
taking me to court to try to force him to be tested and back to school...
Rebecca De Hate
www.the-team.biz/mv978831
http://readingsbyrebecca.vpweb.com
________________________________
From: Elli <elinorsparks@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 12:07:09 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Worse case scenario
Hi
We've been unschooling for two years. Our daughter, who is 12, wants to go back
to school. She doesn't want to "fall behind". She has big visions for her
future and believes school is the best pathway. Okay. We are going to figure
it out for her.
My husband is taking leadership to call the school and figure out next steps.
He also told me that he thinks we are doing a disservice to our kids, especially
our 9 year old son, by unschooling.
He is worried that our son, who hates reading and never writes, will grow up
illiterate. He also worries that he will be anti-social. Our son has friends on
line but none in person.
And he thinks our son will be angry at us once he grows up for limiting his
options as a child.
Please tell me of one unschooled child who has grown up to be angry at his
parents for their choice to unschool. Please tell me about a miserable
illiterate under-employed or unemployed hermit who was unschooled as a child,
maybe even lives with his parents because he can't successfully complete a job
application.
I know I sound sarcastic here.
Hubby told me that he has been lying about his belief in unschooling. The things
he says to others about what we are doing sounded so sincere.
He talked to my son about doing school at home.
Hubby and I work from home. He is self employed and business is slow right now.
I work for a non profit and bring home the bulk of our pay and health insurance.
I think hubby needs to work through how he is going to be involved with our
kids, especially our son. We started unschooling when I was home full time. I
had a chance to work through my fears and doubts. Hubby may need to do that now.
We've not had an easy time with strewing - the kids really like tv or video
games but not much else. And the kids really don't like to go out much. I
think hubby is bored with being home with the kids. He's annoyed at being a
short order cook for meals on demand. He doesn't like the all-nighters the kids
pull when they are into a game or show.
We are working through peaceful parenting issues and hubby has gotten much more
peaceful in his communications.
I want to give him space to work through his fears. I don't want his fears to
freak out my son.
I think that's it.
I would love to hear some feedback.
Thanks,
Elli
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
"Elli" <elinorsparks@...> wrote:
That's a good setup for a husband freaking out - he's *supposed* to be the provider. So nagging worries about his own place in the world are likely sending him to worry about other things as well. Its pretty normal. When things are slow or stressful at work, the working partner often brings the stress home in other ways. I know its something I have to watch out for, and maybe you've noticed it with your own work.
Some of that is normal, getting used to being a full time parent. Its not what any of us, moms or dads, are raised to expect any more. Plenty of moms come to unschooling lists saying "I'm bored and annoyed and not getting enough sleep".
And to some extent this is part of what I said above. He's he Dad... what's he doing being the Mom? I'm not saying he "shouldn't" - I'm the working parent and my partner his home with the kids. At the same time, though, George didn't grow up expecting to be a full time dad and he struggles with the details sometimes - and *he's* 100% on board wtih unschooling. A dad who isn't "sold" on unschooling still, and working through issues about his place in the universe as a man and father? It's really understandable that he'd be looking to exert more control over the situation.
If your husband came to this list or an unschooling dads list, he'd get lots of advice on how to shift his attitude and be a more supportive partner for you and his kids - but He's not asking. If he's not sure he *wants* to be a better partner, that's a whole 'nother issue. No-one should feel like they "have to" unschool. Its a lifestyle that takes a certain amount of wholeheartedness to pull off successfully.
I think you're right about that - but be aware he may come to a different set of conclusions than you did. He may even need to try homeschooling for a time. Its normal for new homeschoolers to try different methods - if he hasn't gone through that part of the process of learning about home-ed, its a gap he's likely seeking to fill. Like kids, adults often learn by experimentation.
Okay, so in this story is the difference between unschooling and unparenting, but I have one.
The first time I ever heard the word "unschool" was from a 13yo girl complaining that she couldn't read because her stupid parents thought unschooling was a good idea. She had recently demanded to be put in school, along with her younger brother and was taking remedial classes - and utterly furious with her parents over their neglect. Now, I can say "that's unparenting not unschooling" but the fact is this family had called whatever they were doing unschooling for years and it blew up in their faces.
That's why lists like this are valuable to some - they are places where people can learn that unschooling requires more than "run, be free!" Her parents thought "run, be free!" was enough... woops.
If your kids aren't getting a lot of support and engagment, then full blown unschooling may not be the best options for them. It might be better to do something more like eclectic homeschooling - especially if it helps dad have a better relationship with his kids.
But! even that girl I mentioned above learned the skills she needed to live in the world and work and be independent. I've yet to meet an unschooler who fits the above description - and I think its because, if nothing else unschooled and homeschooled kids know they have another option. They can throw themselves on the mercy of the system and get help. Its one of the reasons homeschoolers get a bad rap by educators - they do, after all, see the "failures" of home-education, including unschooling.
But those kids are still better off than those who are in the system from the start and still end up lacking a ton of basic skills. There Are illiterate, unemployed adults who went to high school - even some graduates.
---Meredith
>> Hubby and I work from home. He is self employed and business is slow right now. I work for a non profit and bring home the bulk of our pay and health insurance.*****************
That's a good setup for a husband freaking out - he's *supposed* to be the provider. So nagging worries about his own place in the world are likely sending him to worry about other things as well. Its pretty normal. When things are slow or stressful at work, the working partner often brings the stress home in other ways. I know its something I have to watch out for, and maybe you've noticed it with your own work.
>>I think hubby is bored with being home with the kids. He's annoyed at being a short order cook for meals on demand. He doesn't like the all-nighters the kids pull when they are into a game or show.*******************
Some of that is normal, getting used to being a full time parent. Its not what any of us, moms or dads, are raised to expect any more. Plenty of moms come to unschooling lists saying "I'm bored and annoyed and not getting enough sleep".
And to some extent this is part of what I said above. He's he Dad... what's he doing being the Mom? I'm not saying he "shouldn't" - I'm the working parent and my partner his home with the kids. At the same time, though, George didn't grow up expecting to be a full time dad and he struggles with the details sometimes - and *he's* 100% on board wtih unschooling. A dad who isn't "sold" on unschooling still, and working through issues about his place in the universe as a man and father? It's really understandable that he'd be looking to exert more control over the situation.
If your husband came to this list or an unschooling dads list, he'd get lots of advice on how to shift his attitude and be a more supportive partner for you and his kids - but He's not asking. If he's not sure he *wants* to be a better partner, that's a whole 'nother issue. No-one should feel like they "have to" unschool. Its a lifestyle that takes a certain amount of wholeheartedness to pull off successfully.
>> We started unschooling when I was home full time. I had a chance to work through my fears and doubts. Hubby may need to do that now.*****************
I think you're right about that - but be aware he may come to a different set of conclusions than you did. He may even need to try homeschooling for a time. Its normal for new homeschoolers to try different methods - if he hasn't gone through that part of the process of learning about home-ed, its a gap he's likely seeking to fill. Like kids, adults often learn by experimentation.
>>> Please tell me of one unschooled child who has grown up to be angry at his parents for their choice to unschool.****************
Okay, so in this story is the difference between unschooling and unparenting, but I have one.
The first time I ever heard the word "unschool" was from a 13yo girl complaining that she couldn't read because her stupid parents thought unschooling was a good idea. She had recently demanded to be put in school, along with her younger brother and was taking remedial classes - and utterly furious with her parents over their neglect. Now, I can say "that's unparenting not unschooling" but the fact is this family had called whatever they were doing unschooling for years and it blew up in their faces.
That's why lists like this are valuable to some - they are places where people can learn that unschooling requires more than "run, be free!" Her parents thought "run, be free!" was enough... woops.
If your kids aren't getting a lot of support and engagment, then full blown unschooling may not be the best options for them. It might be better to do something more like eclectic homeschooling - especially if it helps dad have a better relationship with his kids.
>Please tell me about a miserable illiterate under-employed or unemployed hermit who was unschooled as a child*******************
But! even that girl I mentioned above learned the skills she needed to live in the world and work and be independent. I've yet to meet an unschooler who fits the above description - and I think its because, if nothing else unschooled and homeschooled kids know they have another option. They can throw themselves on the mercy of the system and get help. Its one of the reasons homeschoolers get a bad rap by educators - they do, after all, see the "failures" of home-education, including unschooling.
But those kids are still better off than those who are in the system from the start and still end up lacking a ton of basic skills. There Are illiterate, unemployed adults who went to high school - even some graduates.
---Meredith
plaidpanties666
rebecca de <rebeccadehate@...> wrote:
Also, are you in TN? (I'm asking because I've met Rebecca at a localish campout). If so, contact Jacki Willard from the Farm School at Home and see if the Farm has some resources you can use to help you do what you Want but still reassure the courts. Contact me on Facebook and I'll hook you up if you aren't registered with the Farm already.
---Meredith
>I don't have a hubby at homeRebecca that's scary! I hope things work out for you! Unschooling tends not to be the sort of thing that's looked on well in the courts, I'm afraid, so there's not much advice to give unless there are other conditions you can use - any kind of diagnosis, I mean. Even then, you may find that you need to create some kind of personal educational plan for him. Have you looked through the curriculum section at Sandra's site?
> but my oldest boys father almost said the exact thing to me lately and is even
> taking me to court to try to force him to be tested and back to school...
Also, are you in TN? (I'm asking because I've met Rebecca at a localish campout). If so, contact Jacki Willard from the Farm School at Home and see if the Farm has some resources you can use to help you do what you Want but still reassure the courts. Contact me on Facebook and I'll hook you up if you aren't registered with the Farm already.
---Meredith
plaidpanties666
Woops, forgot to include the curriculum link:
http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingcurriculum.html
---Mer
http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingcurriculum.html
---Mer
rebecca de
I'm in Michigan.
Rebecca De Hate
www.the-team.biz/mv978831
http://readingsbyrebecca.vpweb.com
________________________________
From: plaidpanties666 <plaidpanties666@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 2:05:36 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Worse case scenario
rebecca de <rebeccadehate@...> wrote:
be the sort of thing that's looked on well in the courts, I'm afraid, so there's
not much advice to give unless there are other conditions you can use - any kind
of diagnosis, I mean. Even then, you may find that you need to create some kind
of personal educational plan for him. Have you looked through the curriculum
section at Sandra's site?
Also, are you in TN? (I'm asking because I've met Rebecca at a localish
campout). If so, contact Jacki Willard from the Farm School at Home and see if
the Farm has some resources you can use to help you do what you Want but still
reassure the courts. Contact me on Facebook and I'll hook you up if you aren't
registered with the Farm already.
---Meredith
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Rebecca De Hate
www.the-team.biz/mv978831
http://readingsbyrebecca.vpweb.com
________________________________
From: plaidpanties666 <plaidpanties666@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 2:05:36 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Worse case scenario
rebecca de <rebeccadehate@...> wrote:
>I don't have a hubby at homeRebecca that's scary! I hope things work out for you! Unschooling tends not to
> but my oldest boys father almost said the exact thing to me lately and is even
> taking me to court to try to force him to be tested and back to school...
be the sort of thing that's looked on well in the courts, I'm afraid, so there's
not much advice to give unless there are other conditions you can use - any kind
of diagnosis, I mean. Even then, you may find that you need to create some kind
of personal educational plan for him. Have you looked through the curriculum
section at Sandra's site?
Also, are you in TN? (I'm asking because I've met Rebecca at a localish
campout). If so, contact Jacki Willard from the Farm School at Home and see if
the Farm has some resources you can use to help you do what you Want but still
reassure the courts. Contact me on Facebook and I'll hook you up if you aren't
registered with the Farm already.
---Meredith
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
My first thought is are there stressors going on in your husband's life right
now? Is he feeling bad about money or the dark of winter or something other
than his children? It sounds like something external, something "not the
unschooling" is tipping him over. http://sandradodd.com/gold/journey talks
about that, about the dark cycle of the month that tended to shadow over the
more wonderful aspects of unschooling. Is he open to the idea of waiting to see
if his perspective changes? It really sounds like a moment of doubt as opposed
to a full and honest appraisal.
Are there things you can do to help your husband to feel better if stress is a
factor? Little things you can offer to lighten his day? We got a heater for
our house and having a warm corner to snuggle into is really nice. Dinner out?
Dinner in? A trip to a motel in a nearby town with a heated pool and a chance
just to get away from everything for a few minutes early in January? A day out
on his own? A book, a game, a magazine, something not for Christmas but just
because? A massage with warm scented oil? A snowball fight?
Are there things that you can do to make things better for unschooling? Can you
come up with exciting things to do on your days off? Ways to get out of the
house? Come up with other kinds of meals that they can grab more easily without
having to go to their dad all the time? Work to find connections within your
local homeschooling community so that there are more people coming over to
yours? Go to the beach, the park, a stream? Strew big ideas and experiences? Go
back to the basics of unschooling and see if there are things that you can do to
stir up your lives, look for the learning in the world and see if you can make
it more jazzy, more lively.
Winter is hard, it's a kind of hibernation period and if you are suffering from
the stress of that (as I am) it can be easy to see only the dark sides of
things, only the way things are failing. It can also be easy to attribute
someone else's behaviour to their own failings or your own failings to meet
their needs instead of seeing it as their response to the darker days, the
colder weather, the changing hormones as they grow older.
Schuyler
________________________________
He also told me that he thinks we are doing a disservice to our kids,
especially our 9 year old son, by unschooling.
He is worried that our son, who hates reading and never writes, will grow up
illiterate. He also worries that he will be anti-social. Our son has friends on
line but none in person.
And he thinks our son will be angry at us once he grows up for limiting his
options as a child.
Please tell me of one unschooled child who has grown up to be angry at his
parents for their choice to unschool. Please tell me about a miserable
illiterate under-employed or unemployed hermit who was unschooled as a child,
maybe even lives with his parents because he can't successfully complete a job
application.
I know I sound sarcastic here.
Hubby told me that he has been lying about his belief in unschooling. The
things he says to others about what we are doing sounded so sincere.
He talked to my son about doing school at home.
Hubby and I work from home. He is self employed and business is slow right now.
I work for a non profit and bring home the bulk of our pay and health
insurance.
I think hubby needs to work through how he is going to be involved with our
kids, especially our son. We started unschooling when I was home full time.
I had a chance to work through my fears and doubts. Hubby may need to do that
now.
We've not had an easy time with strewing - the kids really like tv or video
games but not much else. And the kids really don't like to go out much. I
think hubby is bored with being home with the kids. He's annoyed at being a
short order cook for meals on demand. He doesn't like the all-nighters the
kids pull when they are into a game or show.
We are working through peaceful parenting issues and hubby has gotten much more
peaceful in his communications.
I want to give him space to work through his fears. I don't want his fears to
freak out my son.
I think that's it.
I would love to hear some feedback.
Thanks,
Elli
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
now? Is he feeling bad about money or the dark of winter or something other
than his children? It sounds like something external, something "not the
unschooling" is tipping him over. http://sandradodd.com/gold/journey talks
about that, about the dark cycle of the month that tended to shadow over the
more wonderful aspects of unschooling. Is he open to the idea of waiting to see
if his perspective changes? It really sounds like a moment of doubt as opposed
to a full and honest appraisal.
Are there things you can do to help your husband to feel better if stress is a
factor? Little things you can offer to lighten his day? We got a heater for
our house and having a warm corner to snuggle into is really nice. Dinner out?
Dinner in? A trip to a motel in a nearby town with a heated pool and a chance
just to get away from everything for a few minutes early in January? A day out
on his own? A book, a game, a magazine, something not for Christmas but just
because? A massage with warm scented oil? A snowball fight?
Are there things that you can do to make things better for unschooling? Can you
come up with exciting things to do on your days off? Ways to get out of the
house? Come up with other kinds of meals that they can grab more easily without
having to go to their dad all the time? Work to find connections within your
local homeschooling community so that there are more people coming over to
yours? Go to the beach, the park, a stream? Strew big ideas and experiences? Go
back to the basics of unschooling and see if there are things that you can do to
stir up your lives, look for the learning in the world and see if you can make
it more jazzy, more lively.
Winter is hard, it's a kind of hibernation period and if you are suffering from
the stress of that (as I am) it can be easy to see only the dark sides of
things, only the way things are failing. It can also be easy to attribute
someone else's behaviour to their own failings or your own failings to meet
their needs instead of seeing it as their response to the darker days, the
colder weather, the changing hormones as they grow older.
Schuyler
________________________________
He also told me that he thinks we are doing a disservice to our kids,
especially our 9 year old son, by unschooling.
He is worried that our son, who hates reading and never writes, will grow up
illiterate. He also worries that he will be anti-social. Our son has friends on
line but none in person.
And he thinks our son will be angry at us once he grows up for limiting his
options as a child.
Please tell me of one unschooled child who has grown up to be angry at his
parents for their choice to unschool. Please tell me about a miserable
illiterate under-employed or unemployed hermit who was unschooled as a child,
maybe even lives with his parents because he can't successfully complete a job
application.
I know I sound sarcastic here.
Hubby told me that he has been lying about his belief in unschooling. The
things he says to others about what we are doing sounded so sincere.
He talked to my son about doing school at home.
Hubby and I work from home. He is self employed and business is slow right now.
I work for a non profit and bring home the bulk of our pay and health
insurance.
I think hubby needs to work through how he is going to be involved with our
kids, especially our son. We started unschooling when I was home full time.
I had a chance to work through my fears and doubts. Hubby may need to do that
now.
We've not had an easy time with strewing - the kids really like tv or video
games but not much else. And the kids really don't like to go out much. I
think hubby is bored with being home with the kids. He's annoyed at being a
short order cook for meals on demand. He doesn't like the all-nighters the
kids pull when they are into a game or show.
We are working through peaceful parenting issues and hubby has gotten much more
peaceful in his communications.
I want to give him space to work through his fears. I don't want his fears to
freak out my son.
I think that's it.
I would love to hear some feedback.
Thanks,
Elli
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Debra Rossing
>He is worried that our son, who hates reading and never writes, willgrow up illiterate. He also worries that he will be anti-social. Our son
has friends on line but none in person.
You might want to clarify this some with your hubby. Communicating
online is totally literate, it's pretty much all reading and writing,
especially if he's involved in online gaming. If he's reading and
writing in online forums, he's literate. If he's able to make friends
online, he's not anti-social, he's 21st century social (social media,
online forums, etc - just like this forum!)
--Deb R
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