onskates

hi, i have been on this list for a long time but hardly ever post. after 1.5 years of ps i am bringing my 11yo and my 8yo girls back home. it is, of course, a long story.

for now i am interested in helping them exit in a way that leaves them the most unscathed emotionally and spiritually and the most connected to themselves. this coming week is their last week. the last day before the holiday break is thursday. one of my kids really doesn't like things pulled on her at the last minute so i let go of the idea of telling them thursday morning and am considering wednesday morning.

both of the girls really really want to home school. at the same time they have made some friends that are really sweet kids and i expect them to experience some ambivalence in these last two days of school. i am imagining if we tell them on wednesday morning (then immediately telling the school administration)they will have a day of their own surprise mingled with the surprise of everyone else. then everyone gets to sleep on it and enter into the last day before the long break with a more concrete awareness of this choice and hopefully less desperate goodbyes. i plan on sending them each with a little notebook. their friends who haven't given their phone numbers can do so and write anything else they want to in the notebook.

i would be interested to hear your thoughts and/or experiences are on this subject of exiting ps.

thanks so much for being here!

~joanne hart

Robin Bentley

This plan worries me. Your daughters are certainly old enough to be
involved in this decision. It shouldn't be sprung on them.

If you want them to be "unscathed emotionally and spiritually" start
with trusting them to decide when and what and how. It's more
important for you to show your trust and respect for their opinions
right now, not just when you get them home.

Robin B.

> for now i am interested in helping them exit in a way that leaves
> them the most unscathed emotionally and spiritually and the most
> connected to themselves. this coming week is their last week. the
> last day before the holiday break is thursday. one of my kids really
> doesn't like things pulled on her at the last minute so i let go of
> the idea of telling them thursday morning and am considering
> wednesday morning.
>
> both of the girls really really want to home school. at the same
> time they have made some friends that are really sweet kids and i
> expect them to experience some ambivalence in these last two days of
> school. i am imagining if we tell them on wednesday morning (then
> immediately telling the school administration)they will have a day
> of their own surprise mingled with the surprise of everyone else.
> then everyone gets to sleep on it and enter into the last day before
> the long break with a more concrete awareness of this choice and
> hopefully less desperate goodbyes. i plan on sending them each with
> a little notebook. their friends who haven't given their phone
> numbers can do so and write anything else they want to in the
> notebook.
>
> i would be interested to hear your thoughts and/or experiences are
> on this subject of exiting ps.
>

Robin Bentley

> This plan worries me. Your daughters are certainly old enough to be
> involved in this decision. It shouldn't be sprung on them.
>
> If you want them to be "unscathed emotionally and spiritually" start
> with trusting them to decide when and what and how. It's more
> important for you to show your trust and respect for their opinions
> right now, not just when you get them home.
>

And perhaps I'm misunderstanding. Are the girls aware that this is
going to happen soon? And these few days of letting it sink in is
something they expect?

Robin B.

Ulrike Haupt

Joanne



How would you feel if your partner 'pulled' you out of your life style with a day's notice
and a few 'soothing' activities to go stay in Timbuktu as of tomorrow?

Well it should be ok, since your partner as it all planned.

Be well

Ulrike

from Namibia - somewhere in Africa


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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.


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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

onskates

yes, everything i need to hear. i see this. and i have to say i can't help be where i am with all this. without getting into the whole back story as to why i put them in in the first place and how the last 14 months has unfolded for them i must say that they are in on this decision to the degree that i know how to let them be. one of them has been asking since day one to go back to hsing. call me a torturer but i had to make the original choice to put them their for the sake of my own mental/emotional health at the time. if you want the details you can email me. i would be more comfortable telling off list. not that it's all super gruesome.
the other one, the younger one, had a good year last year. but this year is wearing on her. i posted on this list because we were unschoolers up until a year ago last fall. maybe not top shelf unschoolers because we were more chaotic than i than i knew how to do but we were in the running. i am sure i accidentally upheld that chaos based on how my ADD brain works and the intense dynamic of my three kids and their dynamic with me/mine with theirs.

it is amazing what happens when i open myself to the fact of my own experience of not knowing quite what to do(on any day at anytime with anyone anywhere).

okay, so showing them my trust is what i am getting at i guess. that is something that i am learning. thankfully, really learning, slow but sure.

but it's a good thing to just see that and stay open to it as opposed to feeling bad because someone noticed my limitation(thank you, thank god).

it seems to me that i can only be open to becoming trusting to the degree that i consciously encounter situations where certain observations end up being made so as to notice that i am blatantly trusting or being trusted; deeply.

the result is that having witnessed modeling(somehow having materialized) unlike any i have ever seen in my life i am instantly granted an opportunity to practice what i have seen. which evolves me into myself.

so,even now,i am open to the degree i can be based on staying connected with myself as i am now. this may mean i tell them tomorrow about my/our decision to bring them out of ps. or it may mean i stick to my plan of four days from now.

lus, it would be hard for anyone random on this list to know how they know i trust them. they know i do and it will only continue to burgeon and grow. the trust that is... the rest would be a part of the long story. we are in a much better place in terms of that than where we were 15 months ago.

i appreciate you saying what you said, robin. what i said in response may or may not make sense. typing and thinking is challenging. being tired, too. i am sure there is more to describe on both our parts.

~joanne











-- In [email protected], Robin Bentley <robin.bentley@...> wrote:
>
> This plan worries me. Your daughters are certainly old enough to be
> involved in this decision. It shouldn't be sprung on them.
>
> If you want them to be "unscathed emotionally and spiritually" start
> with trusting them to decide when and what and how. It's more
> important for you to show your trust and respect for their opinions
> right now, not just when you get them home.
>
> Robin B.
>
> > for now i am interested in helping them exit in a way that leaves
> > them the most unscathed emotionally and spiritually and the most
> > connected to themselves. this coming week is their last week. the
> > last day before the holiday break is thursday. one of my kids really
> > doesn't like things pulled on her at the last minute so i let go of
> > the idea of telling them thursday morning and am considering
> > wednesday morning.
> >
> > both of the girls really really want to home school. at the same
> > time they have made some friends that are really sweet kids and i
> > expect them to experience some ambivalence in these last two days of
> > school. i am imagining if we tell them on wednesday morning (then
> > immediately telling the school administration)they will have a day
> > of their own surprise mingled with the surprise of everyone else.
> > then everyone gets to sleep on it and enter into the last day before
> > the long break with a more concrete awareness of this choice and
> > hopefully less desperate goodbyes. i plan on sending them each with
> > a little notebook. their friends who haven't given their phone
> > numbers can do so and write anything else they want to in the
> > notebook.
> >
> > i would be interested to hear your thoughts and/or experiences are
> > on this subject of exiting ps.
> >
>

onskates

--- In [email protected], Robin Bentley <robin.bentley@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> > This plan worries me. Your daughters are certainly old enough to be
> > involved in this decision. It shouldn't be sprung on them.
> >
> > If you want them to be "unscathed emotionally and spiritually" start
> > with trusting them to decide when and what and how. It's more
> > important for you to show your trust and respect for their opinions
> > right now, not just when you get them home.
> >
>
> And perhaps I'm misunderstanding. Are the girls aware that this is
> going to happen soon? And these few days of letting it sink in is
> something they expect?
>
> Robin B.
>

onskates

robin,
well, we talk about it almost everyday. they bring it up. usually in a question based on a new(yet old)experience in the school. then we launch back into this ongoing dialogue about how so much of this school world doesn't make sense.

they don't expect our timing it based on anything we have spoken to them about specifically. except my youngest said she would like to get everyone's phone and address before she said goodbye to the school. that may take two days not one day. but not three days to be sure.

you know, i couldn't have imagined this world before i put them in. nor could they have. my middle(the oldest of the two that we are taking out)refused to really listen or have anything to do with me in terms of talking about things outside "our little world".
i interpreted this one way....untrustingly....now, with lots O'water under the bridge i am willing to face her with her having had this amazing and super challenging experience with ps. she even blew her own mind with her drive to keep up and actually get excited about the topic at hand. and maybe she would have begun to see herself in this apparent at ps new way as she moved from a 9yo to an 11 yo....whether she was with me at home or not. i may or may not ever see that. but with her amazing perceptiveness and tenacity to not accept something as fair just because it's handed to her that way(being a good yet "bad" middle child) has ended she and i up in some of the most amazing dialogue i have ever had about the day in and day out reality of being in a public school.

man, i gotta get to sleep!

~joanne





--- In [email protected], Robin Bentley <robin.bentley@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> > This plan worries me. Your daughters are certainly old enough to be
> > involved in this decision. It shouldn't be sprung on them.
> >
> > If you want them to be "unscathed emotionally and spiritually" start
> > with trusting them to decide when and what and how. It's more
> > important for you to show your trust and respect for their opinions
> > right now, not just when you get them home.
> >
>
> And perhaps I'm misunderstanding. Are the girls aware that this is
> going to happen soon? And these few days of letting it sink in is
> something they expect?
>
> Robin B.
>

onskates

i'll take your words in a loving way even though it's challenging to do so...

my partner knows me/experiences me a fraction of what my children and i do. when you home school, as you know, the opportunities to get to "know" each other are eternal. not so in my marriage. after 15 years we are just now beginning to turn toward each other in a way that begins to parallel myself with my children. it would be the same way for him if he had spent the past 13 years with his kids 'round the clock.

but i get your drift. it's hard to describe an entire relationship on email. i think on the one hand you're absolutely spot on. on another hand it may look more like i am coldly pulling them out like deaf mutes 'cause it's hard to go into much detail here.

still looking also, for thoughts from anyone who has experienced this exiting scenario before...

thanks~!

~joanne


--- In [email protected], "Ulrike Haupt" <rica@...> wrote:
>
> Joanne
>
>
>
> How would you feel if your partner 'pulled' you out of your life style with a day's notice
> and a few 'soothing' activities to go stay in Timbuktu as of tomorrow?
>
> Well it should be ok, since your partner as it all planned.
>
> Be well
>
> Ulrike
>
> from Namibia - somewhere in Africa
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5714
> (20101218) __________
>
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5714
> (20101218) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Joyce Fetteroll

On Dec 19, 2010, at 3:35 AM, onskates wrote:

> still looking also, for thoughts from anyone who has experienced
> this exiting scenario before...

But the outcome will completely depend on the kids' personalities and
their relationship with their mother. A solution that's perfect for
one family might be horribly wrong for another family. The solution
that's right for one child in a family might be horribly wrong for
another child in the same family.

Which is why we talk a lot about principles that turn toward
unschooling. The "right feelingness" of the principles are rooted in
biology not personality. Everyone appreciates being trusted to do what
they believe they can do. Everyone appreciates being treated with
respect. Everyone appreciates living in an environment without conflict.

(Everyone naturally appreciates those regardless of personality. How
people are raised can screw up their view of others and what they want
from them.)

Will your kids feel you trust them afterwards? Will they feel they
were part of the decision? Will 6 months from now when one is missing
something from school throw it back in your face that they never got
to do such and such because you pulled them out?

Those aren't questions people here can answer. That comes from knowing
your kids.

Maybe part of the problem is that you're trying to find one solution
for all 3 kids but they each need something different? To treat them
with respect they'll need to be seen as individuals and treated

> the result is that having witnessed modeling(somehow having
> materialized) unlike any i have ever seen in my life i am instantly
> granted an opportunity to practice what i have seen. which evolves
> me into myself.

I'm having a very hard time reading what you're writing which makes it
hard to answer.

I'm not asking the above to be explained but some of your confusion
about how to handle this with your kids might be because the above
sentence reflects how your thoughts are: Many thoughts all tangled up
together.

The richness of our ideas is in the connections we see between things.
Not seeing just a rock, but how the rock is a sun bathing spot for
insects, creates a shelter for chipmunks, is a castoff from a mountain
and so on. But if the idea, the rock, gets lost in all the
connections, it's hard to think clearly about the rock.

I haven't read this yet but Sandra Dodd recommended a book that she
said is like "cognitive therapy."

Slowing Down to the Speed of Life: How to create a more peaceful,
simpler life from the inside out
Richard Carlson and Joseph Bailey

That might help you clear the tangles out of your thoughts so you can
think more clearly.

Joyce



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

So you're going to talk to them about what they want to do and when?

Nance



--- In [email protected], "onskates" <onskates@...> wrote:
>
> robin,
> well, we talk about it almost everyday. they bring it up. usually in a question based on a new(yet old)experience in the school. then we launch back into this ongoing dialogue about how so much of this school world doesn't make sense.
>
> they don't expect our timing it based on anything we have spoken to them about specifically. except my youngest said she would like to get everyone's phone and address before she said goodbye to the school. that may take two days not one day. but not three days to be sure.
>
> you know, i couldn't have imagined this world before i put them in. nor could they have. my middle(the oldest of the two that we are taking out)refused to really listen or have anything to do with me in terms of talking about things outside "our little world".
> i interpreted this one way....untrustingly....now, with lots O'water under the bridge i am willing to face her with her having had this amazing and super challenging experience with ps. she even blew her own mind with her drive to keep up and actually get excited about the topic at hand. and maybe she would have begun to see herself in this apparent at ps new way as she moved from a 9yo to an 11 yo....whether she was with me at home or not. i may or may not ever see that. but with her amazing perceptiveness and tenacity to not accept something as fair just because it's handed to her that way(being a good yet "bad" middle child) has ended she and i up in some of the most amazing dialogue i have ever had about the day in and day out reality of being in a public school.
>
> man, i gotta get to sleep!
>
> ~joanne
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], Robin Bentley <robin.bentley@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > This plan worries me. Your daughters are certainly old enough to be
> > > involved in this decision. It shouldn't be sprung on them.
> > >
> > > If you want them to be "unscathed emotionally and spiritually" start
> > > with trusting them to decide when and what and how. It's more
> > > important for you to show your trust and respect for their opinions
> > > right now, not just when you get them home.
> > >
> >
> > And perhaps I'm misunderstanding. Are the girls aware that this is
> > going to happen soon? And these few days of letting it sink in is
> > something they expect?
> >
> > Robin B.
> >
>

kmlewpea

Could you just ask then if/when they would like to transition back home?
Let them know the earliest day that you feel available for that and then
let them pick a day (or not) from that day on? I would think that this
would be the most empowering and trust filled option for them... let them
decide.

peace,
kathryn


On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 9:54 AM, marbleface@... <
marbleface@...> wrote:

>
>
> So you're going to talk to them about what they want to do and when?
>
> Nance
>
>
> --- In [email protected]<unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "onskates" <onskates@...> wrote:
> >
> > robin,
> > well, we talk about it almost everyday. they bring it up. usually in a
> question based on a new(yet old)experience in the school. then we launch
> back into this ongoing dialogue about how so much of this school world
> doesn't make sense.
> >
> > they don't expect our timing it based on anything we have spoken to them
> about specifically. except my youngest said she would like to get everyone's
> phone and address before she said goodbye to the school. that may take two
> days not one day. but not three days to be sure.
> >
> > you know, i couldn't have imagined this world before i put them in. nor
> could they have. my middle(the oldest of the two that we are taking
> out)refused to really listen or have anything to do with me in terms of
> talking about things outside "our little world".
> > i interpreted this one way....untrustingly....now, with lots O'water
> under the bridge i am willing to face her with her having had this amazing
> and super challenging experience with ps. she even blew her own mind with
> her drive to keep up and actually get excited about the topic at hand. and
> maybe she would have begun to see herself in this apparent at ps new way as
> she moved from a 9yo to an 11 yo....whether she was with me at home or not.
> i may or may not ever see that. but with her amazing perceptiveness and
> tenacity to not accept something as fair just because it's handed to her
> that way(being a good yet "bad" middle child) has ended she and i up in some
> of the most amazing dialogue i have ever had about the day in and day out
> reality of being in a public school.
> >
> > man, i gotta get to sleep!
> >
> > ~joanne
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In [email protected]<unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Robin Bentley <robin.bentley@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > This plan worries me. Your daughters are certainly old enough to be
> > > > involved in this decision. It shouldn't be sprung on them.
> > > >
> > > > If you want them to be "unscathed emotionally and spiritually" start
> > > > with trusting them to decide when and what and how. It's more
> > > > important for you to show your trust and respect for their opinions
> > > > right now, not just when you get them home.
> > > >
> > >
> > > And perhaps I'm misunderstanding. Are the girls aware that this is
> > > going to happen soon? And these few days of letting it sink in is
> > > something they expect?
> > >
> > > Robin B.
> > >
> >
>
>
>



--
Nonviolence is absolute commitment to the way of love. Love is not emotional
bash; it is not empty sentimentalism. It is the active outpouring of one's
whole being into the being of another.
--Martin Luther King, Jr. 1957


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

mari teaches

joanne, your looking for specifics on the exit process. its different for
everyone involved, the parent(s) and the child.

for alfredo i did what you are about to do i made a split second decision.

on febuary 1st 2010 alfredo woke up crying no not regular crying like boo
hoo a melt down that went into his panic/anxiety attack once again (with no
meds and no dr, we were new to fl), he was 13 1/2 he suffered severe
anxiety, bad depression, social issues, bullying, teacher abuse, adhd, apd,
has aspergers tendancies, odd, and he is also partial deaf.

So he was ready dressed for school but was having another panic
attack/meltdown, after the few hours of getting him to calm down I told him
to change into his pj's he will not be returning to any schools ever he said
ok, I called the local clinic and told them they need to hurry and get his
medical stuff transferred as we need to start looking into possibilities of
meds, we have never used them. then the next day the same thing, though not
like the day before, but he didn't realize i had made the decision when i
told him to put his pj's on that he was to never to return back to any more
schools again, he couldn't hear me when i said it to him because of his
state of mind. So I explained it to him, but we have talked about it for
nearly 2 years but just have not made that final leap yet.

So I made a split second decision on feb 1st 2010 and he has never returned,
he has not wanted to and you cant even mention anything about returning
either, its traumatic for him, like an abused victim. school words are a
traumatic meaning for him.

with gabriel he is my 10 year old, since i have 4 children ages now 14, 10,
6 and 2 lol he didnt want to be the only in school and felt left out being
in ps so he asked to hs so i said yes of course yay! lol no more other
peoples schedules for me i have enough with many dr appointments and
therapies with all the boys and myself, they have special needs, i call
challenges, but anyways.

with gabriel i asked him when he would like to leave he said let him finish
out the year and so i did, so now he has started hus (home
unschooling) since august 2010.

sebastian has not gone to school yet and has no desires yippie and the
school told me they cant even accomodate him even if i needed to put him in
there.

so thats our expirience, my boys new about it, and with alfredo i made the
decision to remove him because i think if i didnt that day he would have had
a mental nervous break down and that is his health involved so thats where i
needed to step in. with gabriel he chose to finish the year, but he has had
no issues besides being super bored becuase they dont allow the advanced
learners to move ahead.

Mari

plaidpanties666

"onskates" <onskates@...> wrote:
> call me a torturer but i had to make the original choice to put them their for the sake of my own mental/emotional health at the time.
***************

Any kind of health issue can be a biiiiig impediment to unschooling! Please don't beat yourself up over that.

If your kids are wanting to come out of school anyway, then I don't think you need to worry too much about how you go about it. Sending them with notebooks a few days in advance is a good idea, so they can stay in contact with friends. Be sure to follow up on that contact, since social contacts can be really important for girls, especially. That seems to be the biggest reason for home/unschoolers to want to go to school as teens, for the social contacts.

---Meredith

plaidpanties666

"onskates" <onskates@...> wrote:
>> still looking also, for thoughts from anyone who has experienced this exiting scenario before...
***************

I'm not really clear what you're looking for, actually. Stories of last days of school? We pulled Ray out after a vacation, so there was no "last day of school" as such. He was worried about losing touch with friends but within a few months had nothing left in common with his school friends. In his words "all the want to do is complain about their lives... I don't have anything to complain about!" It was kind of like getting an award, actually - a teen with nothing to complain about? Score!

Once the kids are home, take time to relax and reconnect. Go back and re-read everything you might already know about deschooling and start from there - go on vacation of the mind, even if you don't go anywhere physically.
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling

---Meredith

onskates

yes!
that's how we did it before.
but not with the exiting. my biggest concern is that some of the personalities at the school will say more doofus things to them and leave them even more bewildered. they are rooted in end of year projects that they want to finish and are doing as part of groups and i want them to have the closure of the end of this session. i may regret something in how this goes but i am trying to sense what is the best way.

it's funny, i love unschooling and unschoolers. and i may not be even remotely a pure bred. but i am excited about them not having to do what they don't want to do any more. and whether how they exit the system freaks them out or not or a little of both they will both be relieved and much happier.

i was just lookin for a little bit of people's experience in pulling them out of school mid year.

i appreciate the responses so far. it is hard to know all the minds here on a list having never met nor talked before. the fact that i am nudgey about doing this is the thread i am following. thankfully i am evolving....but still one step at a time. i say that because i sort of taste in the feel of some of the responses that i am "wrong" about some stuff. i am not claiming to know what the best way to do this is. i do feel vulnerable opening up. i still have some replies to read. maybe someone will have an experience of this sort to share.

i gahgo....

~j


--- In [email protected], "marbleface@..." <marbleface@...> wrote:
>
> So you're going to talk to them about what they want to do and when?
>
> Nance
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "onskates" <onskates@> wrote:
> >
> > robin,
> > well, we talk about it almost everyday. they bring it up. usually in a question based on a new(yet old)experience in the school. then we launch back into this ongoing dialogue about how so much of this school world doesn't make sense.
> >
> > they don't expect our timing it based on anything we have spoken to them about specifically. except my youngest said she would like to get everyone's phone and address before she said goodbye to the school. that may take two days not one day. but not three days to be sure.
> >
> > you know, i couldn't have imagined this world before i put them in. nor could they have. my middle(the oldest of the two that we are taking out)refused to really listen or have anything to do with me in terms of talking about things outside "our little world".
> > i interpreted this one way....untrustingly....now, with lots O'water under the bridge i am willing to face her with her having had this amazing and super challenging experience with ps. she even blew her own mind with her drive to keep up and actually get excited about the topic at hand. and maybe she would have begun to see herself in this apparent at ps new way as she moved from a 9yo to an 11 yo....whether she was with me at home or not. i may or may not ever see that. but with her amazing perceptiveness and tenacity to not accept something as fair just because it's handed to her that way(being a good yet "bad" middle child) has ended she and i up in some of the most amazing dialogue i have ever had about the day in and day out reality of being in a public school.
> >
> > man, i gotta get to sleep!
> >
> > ~joanne
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In [email protected], Robin Bentley <robin.bentley@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > This plan worries me. Your daughters are certainly old enough to be
> > > > involved in this decision. It shouldn't be sprung on them.
> > > >
> > > > If you want them to be "unscathed emotionally and spiritually" start
> > > > with trusting them to decide when and what and how. It's more
> > > > important for you to show your trust and respect for their opinions
> > > > right now, not just when you get them home.
> > > >
> > >
> > > And perhaps I'm misunderstanding. Are the girls aware that this is
> > > going to happen soon? And these few days of letting it sink in is
> > > something they expect?
> > >
> > > Robin B.
> > >
> >
>

Heather

I'd like to second the book recommendation that Joyce made. I am currently
reading "Slowing Down to the Speed of Life" by Carlson & Bailey. I'm only
about halfway through it, but it is so great that I've already ordered my
own copy. (The one I'm reading is a library book).

Heather
Tucson
On Dec 19, 2010 6:42 AM, "Joyce Fetteroll" <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>
> On Dec 19, 2010, at 3:35 AM, onskates wrote:
>
>> still looking also, for thoughts from anyone who has experienced
>> this exiting scenario before...
>
> But the outcome will completely depend on the kids' personalities and
> their relationship with their mother. A solution that's perfect for
> one family might be horribly wrong for another family. The solution
> that's right for one child in a family might be horribly wrong for
> another child in the same family.
>
> Which is why we talk a lot about principles that turn toward
> unschooling. The "right feelingness" of the principles are rooted in
> biology not personality. Everyone appreciates being trusted to do what
> they believe they can do. Everyone appreciates being treated with
> respect. Everyone appreciates living in an environment without conflict.
>
> (Everyone naturally appreciates those regardless of personality. How
> people are raised can screw up their view of others and what they want
> from them.)
>
> Will your kids feel you trust them afterwards? Will they feel they
> were part of the decision? Will 6 months from now when one is missing
> something from school throw it back in your face that they never got
> to do such and such because you pulled them out?
>
> Those aren't questions people here can answer. That comes from knowing
> your kids.
>
> Maybe part of the problem is that you're trying to find one solution
> for all 3 kids but they each need something different? To treat them
> with respect they'll need to be seen as individuals and treated
>
>> the result is that having witnessed modeling(somehow having
>> materialized) unlike any i have ever seen in my life i am instantly
>> granted an opportunity to practice what i have seen. which evolves
>> me into myself.
>
> I'm having a very hard time reading what you're writing which makes it
> hard to answer.
>
> I'm not asking the above to be explained but some of your confusion
> about how to handle this with your kids might be because the above
> sentence reflects how your thoughts are: Many thoughts all tangled up
> together.
>
> The richness of our ideas is in the connections we see between things.
> Not seeing just a rock, but how the rock is a sun bathing spot for
> insects, creates a shelter for chipmunks, is a castoff from a mountain
> and so on. But if the idea, the rock, gets lost in all the
> connections, it's hard to think clearly about the rock.
>
> I haven't read this yet but Sandra Dodd recommended a book that she
> said is like "cognitive therapy."
>
> Slowing Down to the Speed of Life: How to create a more peaceful,
> simpler life from the inside out
> Richard Carlson and Joseph Bailey
>
> That might help you clear the tangles out of your thoughts so you can
> think more clearly.
>
> Joyce
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

onskates

yur probably right. but i am not going to. i am doing my best though.
i know for a fact they would just quit right out the minute i told them. then i think they would regret that. i know them.

trust is good. i get the drift of trust. i may be a little messy about what i am doing here but the choice is a good one.




--- In [email protected], kmlewpea <kmlewpea@...> wrote:
>
> Could you just ask then if/when they would like to transition back home?
> Let them know the earliest day that you feel available for that and then
> let them pick a day (or not) from that day on? I would think that this
> would be the most empowering and trust filled option for them... let them
> decide.
>
> peace,
> kathryn
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 9:54 AM, marbleface@... <
> marbleface@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > So you're going to talk to them about what they want to do and when?
> >
> > Nance
> >
> >
> > --- In [email protected]<unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > "onskates" <onskates@> wrote:
> > >
> > > robin,
> > > well, we talk about it almost everyday. they bring it up. usually in a
> > question based on a new(yet old)experience in the school. then we launch
> > back into this ongoing dialogue about how so much of this school world
> > doesn't make sense.
> > >
> > > they don't expect our timing it based on anything we have spoken to them
> > about specifically. except my youngest said she would like to get everyone's
> > phone and address before she said goodbye to the school. that may take two
> > days not one day. but not three days to be sure.
> > >
> > > you know, i couldn't have imagined this world before i put them in. nor
> > could they have. my middle(the oldest of the two that we are taking
> > out)refused to really listen or have anything to do with me in terms of
> > talking about things outside "our little world".
> > > i interpreted this one way....untrustingly....now, with lots O'water
> > under the bridge i am willing to face her with her having had this amazing
> > and super challenging experience with ps. she even blew her own mind with
> > her drive to keep up and actually get excited about the topic at hand. and
> > maybe she would have begun to see herself in this apparent at ps new way as
> > she moved from a 9yo to an 11 yo....whether she was with me at home or not.
> > i may or may not ever see that. but with her amazing perceptiveness and
> > tenacity to not accept something as fair just because it's handed to her
> > that way(being a good yet "bad" middle child) has ended she and i up in some
> > of the most amazing dialogue i have ever had about the day in and day out
> > reality of being in a public school.
> > >
> > > man, i gotta get to sleep!
> > >
> > > ~joanne
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In [email protected]<unschoolingbasics%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > Robin Bentley <robin.bentley@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > This plan worries me. Your daughters are certainly old enough to be
> > > > > involved in this decision. It shouldn't be sprung on them.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you want them to be "unscathed emotionally and spiritually" start
> > > > > with trusting them to decide when and what and how. It's more
> > > > > important for you to show your trust and respect for their opinions
> > > > > right now, not just when you get them home.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > And perhaps I'm misunderstanding. Are the girls aware that this is
> > > > going to happen soon? And these few days of letting it sink in is
> > > > something they expect?
> > > >
> > > > Robin B.
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Nonviolence is absolute commitment to the way of love. Love is not emotional
> bash; it is not empty sentimentalism. It is the active outpouring of one's
> whole being into the being of another.
> --Martin Luther King, Jr. 1957
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

onskates

thanks very much, mari!
they are lucky!!
~j





--- In [email protected], mari teaches <mari.teaches@...> wrote:
>
> joanne, your looking for specifics on the exit process. its different for
> everyone involved, the parent(s) and the child.
>
> for alfredo i did what you are about to do i made a split second decision.
>
> on febuary 1st 2010 alfredo woke up crying no not regular crying like boo
> hoo a melt down that went into his panic/anxiety attack once again (with no
> meds and no dr, we were new to fl), he was 13 1/2 he suffered severe
> anxiety, bad depression, social issues, bullying, teacher abuse, adhd, apd,
> has aspergers tendancies, odd, and he is also partial deaf.
>
> So he was ready dressed for school but was having another panic
> attack/meltdown, after the few hours of getting him to calm down I told him
> to change into his pj's he will not be returning to any schools ever he said
> ok, I called the local clinic and told them they need to hurry and get his
> medical stuff transferred as we need to start looking into possibilities of
> meds, we have never used them. then the next day the same thing, though not
> like the day before, but he didn't realize i had made the decision when i
> told him to put his pj's on that he was to never to return back to any more
> schools again, he couldn't hear me when i said it to him because of his
> state of mind. So I explained it to him, but we have talked about it for
> nearly 2 years but just have not made that final leap yet.
>
> So I made a split second decision on feb 1st 2010 and he has never returned,
> he has not wanted to and you cant even mention anything about returning
> either, its traumatic for him, like an abused victim. school words are a
> traumatic meaning for him.
>
> with gabriel he is my 10 year old, since i have 4 children ages now 14, 10,
> 6 and 2 lol he didnt want to be the only in school and felt left out being
> in ps so he asked to hs so i said yes of course yay! lol no more other
> peoples schedules for me i have enough with many dr appointments and
> therapies with all the boys and myself, they have special needs, i call
> challenges, but anyways.
>
> with gabriel i asked him when he would like to leave he said let him finish
> out the year and so i did, so now he has started hus (home
> unschooling) since august 2010.
>
> sebastian has not gone to school yet and has no desires yippie and the
> school told me they cant even accomodate him even if i needed to put him in
> there.
>
> so thats our expirience, my boys new about it, and with alfredo i made the
> decision to remove him because i think if i didnt that day he would have had
> a mental nervous break down and that is his health involved so thats where i
> needed to step in. with gabriel he chose to finish the year, but he has had
> no issues besides being super bored becuase they dont allow the advanced
> learners to move ahead.
>
> Mari
>

onskates

thanks meredith.
i guess it's your experience, which you shared, i was looking for. i asked for thoughts too, but i got a bit overwhelmed by wanting to respond to so many peoples' thoughts and ideas. we unschooled before mostly successfully except the family dynamic became overwhelming. this time there are some big differences and i am not worried about how it will go. i was concerned about the exiting.

~j

--- In [email protected], "plaidpanties666" <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
>
> "onskates" <onskates@> wrote:
> >> still looking also, for thoughts from anyone who has experienced this exiting scenario before...
> ***************
>
> I'm not really clear what you're looking for, actually. Stories of last days of school? We pulled Ray out after a vacation, so there was no "last day of school" as such. He was worried about losing touch with friends but within a few months had nothing left in common with his school friends. In his words "all the want to do is complain about their lives... I don't have anything to complain about!" It was kind of like getting an award, actually - a teen with nothing to complain about? Score!
>
> Once the kids are home, take time to relax and reconnect. Go back and re-read everything you might already know about deschooling and start from there - go on vacation of the mind, even if you don't go anywhere physically.
> http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
>
> ---Meredith
>

Robin Bentley

>
> i asked for thoughts too, but i got a bit overwhelmed by wanting to
> respond to so many peoples' thoughts and ideas.

The good thing about lists like this is that you don't have to reply
to everyone. Or anyone! It's okay to let ideas sit with you. Mull them
over. Or ignore them <g>.

Responses to one person's questions can be helpful to another, even it
it's not helpful for you.

Robin B.

kristi_beguin

>>>my biggest concern is that some of the personalities at the school will say more doofus things to them and leave them even more bewildered.<<<

Why worry what others think?

If they already want to leave school, why will they be bewildered?

>>>i may regret something in how this goes but i am trying to sense what is the best way.<<<

The best way is to trust your daughters to know what is right for them. If one of them wants to leave school right this second, then let her. If the other wants to stay a while, maybe she should. That is what others have suggested, letting your daughters be a part of the decision as to when the best time to stop (or stay) is for them individually.

>>>and whether how they exit the system freaks them out or not or a little of both they will both be relieved and much happier.<<<

Wouldn't it be better if they were able to have so much of a say in the decision, though, so that they wouldn't have to feel freaked out? The only way relief will be felt is if the situation they can leave was causing discomfort. If pulling them out (like pulling the rug from under their feet) is unexpected, won't that cause discomfort that maybe could have been avoided by true, in-depth discussions?

>>>i was just lookin for a little bit of people's experience in pulling them out of school mid year.<<<

I have pulled my oldest daughter from school twice. The choice was entirely hers. The 2nd time she tried school, her choice, she had some difficulty adjusting, but still really wanted to go. We did what we could to help her deal with the things that were causing her difficulty. She had perfect attendance that year. She REALLY wanted to be there. If I had just told her at the start of Christmas break that she would no longer be going, I am certain that I would have caused another difficult situation for her--but *I* would have caused it. It would not have been something she could control. When she decided that school was not for her, I supported her 100%. We talk extensively about all the factors affecting her, and in the end, she said I want out. She's been out for 2 years now. It may change. She may want to go back to school again. But the choice is hers.

In my opinion, the choice should be up to each one of your daughters individually. Support and trust each of them as individuals. It doesn't have to be an "all or nothing" proposition. It can be an "I'll support you and work with you in whichever choice you make" situation. They are truly old enough to know what they want right now. It might change in another few weeks, or a month, or in 2 years. But if they know you are willing to trust and support them, don't you think that's better than freaking them out?

onskates

thanks, meredith and everyone!
here's to a great winter!
~joanne




--- In [email protected], "plaidpanties666" <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
>
> "onskates" <onskates@> wrote:
> > call me a torturer but i had to make the original choice to put them their for the sake of my own mental/emotional health at the time.
> ***************
>
> Any kind of health issue can be a biiiiig impediment to unschooling! Please don't beat yourself up over that.
>
> If your kids are wanting to come out of school anyway, then I don't think you need to worry too much about how you go about it. Sending them with notebooks a few days in advance is a good idea, so they can stay in contact with friends. Be sure to follow up on that contact, since social contacts can be really important for girls, especially. That seems to be the biggest reason for home/unschoolers to want to go to school as teens, for the social contacts.
>
> ---Meredith
>

onskates

thanks for the reply.
they have been begging me to hs for months. so in their minds they've decided what they want. now i am ready to go along with them. diabolic or not i want them to finish the semester which is four more days. it just makes sense to me. i think they'll understand. we are going to tell them wednesday morning and we'll go from there. they are thoughtful and reasonable kids. i imagine they will want to go and say goodbye to everyone. that's how they are. i have not been living a super distrustful life with them. i was just experiencing a super friedness and i did ps to get sane.

my worry is not what people at the school think; believe me. i have advocated for them in so many ways in the last 15 months that would show how much i don't care what others think. but i do care what stupid things people might say that the girls will have to put up with in this last day or two. they are tough and have perceived articulately throughout these months every level of ridiculousness that exists in this school. they could write a paper on it if they wanted to!! so the freaked out thing is how it goes over with other people and how they freak them out. they may not get freaked out at all. i am just mulling and mulling.

okay gotta run

~j


--- In [email protected], "kristi_beguin" <foehn_jye@...> wrote:
>
> >>>my biggest concern is that some of the personalities at the school will say more doofus things to them and leave them even more bewildered.<<<
>
> Why worry what others think?
>
> If they already want to leave school, why will they be bewildered?
>
> >>>i may regret something in how this goes but i am trying to sense what is the best way.<<<
>
> The best way is to trust your daughters to know what is right for them. If one of them wants to leave school right this second, then let her. If the other wants to stay a while, maybe she should. That is what others have suggested, letting your daughters be a part of the decision as to when the best time to stop (or stay) is for them individually.
>
> >>>and whether how they exit the system freaks them out or not or a little of both they will both be relieved and much happier.<<<
>
> Wouldn't it be better if they were able to have so much of a say in the decision, though, so that they wouldn't have to feel freaked out? The only way relief will be felt is if the situation they can leave was causing discomfort. If pulling them out (like pulling the rug from under their feet) is unexpected, won't that cause discomfort that maybe could have been avoided by true, in-depth discussions?
>
> >>>i was just lookin for a little bit of people's experience in pulling them out of school mid year.<<<
>
> I have pulled my oldest daughter from school twice. The choice was entirely hers. The 2nd time she tried school, her choice, she had some difficulty adjusting, but still really wanted to go. We did what we could to help her deal with the things that were causing her difficulty. She had perfect attendance that year. She REALLY wanted to be there. If I had just told her at the start of Christmas break that she would no longer be going, I am certain that I would have caused another difficult situation for her--but *I* would have caused it. It would not have been something she could control. When she decided that school was not for her, I supported her 100%. We talk extensively about all the factors affecting her, and in the end, she said I want out. She's been out for 2 years now. It may change. She may want to go back to school again. But the choice is hers.
>
> In my opinion, the choice should be up to each one of your daughters individually. Support and trust each of them as individuals. It doesn't have to be an "all or nothing" proposition. It can be an "I'll support you and work with you in whichever choice you make" situation. They are truly old enough to know what they want right now. It might change in another few weeks, or a month, or in 2 years. But if they know you are willing to trust and support them, don't you think that's better than freaking them out?
>

[email protected]

It won't be perfect. Let go of trying to plan every moment and how they will experience it.

Just do it and then move on to giving each person lots and lots of time to figure out how they want their days to go. Not how you envision some perfect something or other, or some resolution of one of your problems. How they want to live now and tomorrow.

Nance



--- In [email protected], "onskates" <onskates@...> wrote:
>
>
> yes!
> that's how we did it before.
> but not with the exiting. my biggest concern is that some of the personalities at the school will say more doofus things to them and leave them even more bewildered. they are rooted in end of year projects that they want to finish and are doing as part of groups and i want them to have the closure of the end of this session. i may regret something in how this goes but i am trying to sense what is the best way.
>
> it's funny, i love unschooling and unschoolers. and i may not be even remotely a pure bred. but i am excited about them not having to do what they don't want to do any more. and whether how they exit the system freaks them out or not or a little of both they will both be relieved and much happier.
>
> i was just lookin for a little bit of people's experience in pulling them out of school mid year.
>
> i appreciate the responses so far. it is hard to know all the minds here on a list having never met nor talked before. the fact that i am nudgey about doing this is the thread i am following. thankfully i am evolving....but still one step at a time. i say that because i sort of taste in the feel of some of the responses that i am "wrong" about some stuff. i am not claiming to know what the best way to do this is. i do feel vulnerable opening up. i still have some replies to read. maybe someone will have an experience of this sort to share.
>
> i gahgo....
>
> ~j
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "marbleface@" <marbleface@> wrote:
> >
> > So you're going to talk to them about what they want to do and when?
> >
> > Nance
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In [email protected], "onskates" <onskates@> wrote:
> > >
> > > robin,
> > > well, we talk about it almost everyday. they bring it up. usually in a question based on a new(yet old)experience in the school. then we launch back into this ongoing dialogue about how so much of this school world doesn't make sense.
> > >
> > > they don't expect our timing it based on anything we have spoken to them about specifically. except my youngest said she would like to get everyone's phone and address before she said goodbye to the school. that may take two days not one day. but not three days to be sure.
> > >
> > > you know, i couldn't have imagined this world before i put them in. nor could they have. my middle(the oldest of the two that we are taking out)refused to really listen or have anything to do with me in terms of talking about things outside "our little world".
> > > i interpreted this one way....untrustingly....now, with lots O'water under the bridge i am willing to face her with her having had this amazing and super challenging experience with ps. she even blew her own mind with her drive to keep up and actually get excited about the topic at hand. and maybe she would have begun to see herself in this apparent at ps new way as she moved from a 9yo to an 11 yo....whether she was with me at home or not. i may or may not ever see that. but with her amazing perceptiveness and tenacity to not accept something as fair just because it's handed to her that way(being a good yet "bad" middle child) has ended she and i up in some of the most amazing dialogue i have ever had about the day in and day out reality of being in a public school.
> > >
> > > man, i gotta get to sleep!
> > >
> > > ~joanne
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In [email protected], Robin Bentley <robin.bentley@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > This plan worries me. Your daughters are certainly old enough to be
> > > > > involved in this decision. It shouldn't be sprung on them.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you want them to be "unscathed emotionally and spiritually" start
> > > > > with trusting them to decide when and what and how. It's more
> > > > > important for you to show your trust and respect for their opinions
> > > > > right now, not just when you get them home.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > And perhaps I'm misunderstanding. Are the girls aware that this is
> > > > going to happen soon? And these few days of letting it sink in is
> > > > something they expect?
> > > >
> > > > Robin B.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

onskates

sigh.
i was just looking for experiences and thoughts on the subject. i'm not losing any sleep over this. we will do it. it will be fine.

i was just planning on when to tell them, not on every moment of whenever. i don't mean to come across defensive i just need to say i let go of perfect years ago.

we're gonna do it wednesday morning. it'll be another amazing day!

~j



--- In [email protected], "marbleface@..." <marbleface@...> wrote:
>
> It won't be perfect. Let go of trying to plan every moment and how they will experience it.
>
> Just do it and then move on to giving each person lots and lots of time to figure out how they want their days to go. Not how you envision some perfect something or other, or some resolution of one of your problems. How they want to live now and tomorrow.
>
> Nance
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "onskates" <onskates@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > yes!
> > that's how we did it before.
> > but not with the exiting. my biggest concern is that some of the personalities at the school will say more doofus things to them and leave them even more bewildered. they are rooted in end of year projects that they want to finish and are doing as part of groups and i want them to have the closure of the end of this session. i may regret something in how this goes but i am trying to sense what is the best way.
> >
> > it's funny, i love unschooling and unschoolers. and i may not be even remotely a pure bred. but i am excited about them not having to do what they don't want to do any more. and whether how they exit the system freaks them out or not or a little of both they will both be relieved and much happier.
> >
> > i was just lookin for a little bit of people's experience in pulling them out of school mid year.
> >
> > i appreciate the responses so far. it is hard to know all the minds here on a list having never met nor talked before. the fact that i am nudgey about doing this is the thread i am following. thankfully i am evolving....but still one step at a time. i say that because i sort of taste in the feel of some of the responses that i am "wrong" about some stuff. i am not claiming to know what the best way to do this is. i do feel vulnerable opening up. i still have some replies to read. maybe someone will have an experience of this sort to share.
> >
> > i gahgo....
> >
> > ~j
> >
> >
> > --- In [email protected], "marbleface@" <marbleface@> wrote:
> > >
> > > So you're going to talk to them about what they want to do and when?
> > >
> > > Nance
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In [email protected], "onskates" <onskates@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > robin,
> > > > well, we talk about it almost everyday. they bring it up. usually in a question based on a new(yet old)experience in the school. then we launch back into this ongoing dialogue about how so much of this school world doesn't make sense.
> > > >
> > > > they don't expect our timing it based on anything we have spoken to them about specifically. except my youngest said she would like to get everyone's phone and address before she said goodbye to the school. that may take two days not one day. but not three days to be sure.
> > > >
> > > > you know, i couldn't have imagined this world before i put them in. nor could they have. my middle(the oldest of the two that we are taking out)refused to really listen or have anything to do with me in terms of talking about things outside "our little world".
> > > > i interpreted this one way....untrustingly....now, with lots O'water under the bridge i am willing to face her with her having had this amazing and super challenging experience with ps. she even blew her own mind with her drive to keep up and actually get excited about the topic at hand. and maybe she would have begun to see herself in this apparent at ps new way as she moved from a 9yo to an 11 yo....whether she was with me at home or not. i may or may not ever see that. but with her amazing perceptiveness and tenacity to not accept something as fair just because it's handed to her that way(being a good yet "bad" middle child) has ended she and i up in some of the most amazing dialogue i have ever had about the day in and day out reality of being in a public school.
> > > >
> > > > man, i gotta get to sleep!
> > > >
> > > > ~joanne
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In [email protected], Robin Bentley <robin.bentley@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > This plan worries me. Your daughters are certainly old enough to be
> > > > > > involved in this decision. It shouldn't be sprung on them.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you want them to be "unscathed emotionally and spiritually" start
> > > > > > with trusting them to decide when and what and how. It's more
> > > > > > important for you to show your trust and respect for their opinions
> > > > > > right now, not just when you get them home.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > And perhaps I'm misunderstanding. Are the girls aware that this is
> > > > > going to happen soon? And these few days of letting it sink in is
> > > > > something they expect?
> > > > >
> > > > > Robin B.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Robin Bentley

> i was just looking for experiences and thoughts on the subject.

Why? What did you want to hear from parents whose kids were taken out
of school?

When someone asks for a specific answer on a list like this, they
often find that long-time unschoolers will see beyond the question.
List members might see muddled thinking or misunderstanding of
principles. As it's important to be clear from an unschooling point of
view, those things will be pointed out so others can be helped to
understand, too. It isn't always about the original poster, even if
list members clarify with that person.

Robin B.

[email protected]

Wonderful!

Nance


--- In [email protected], "onskates" <onskates@...> wrote:
>
> sigh.
> i was just looking for experiences and thoughts on the subject. i'm not losing any sleep over this. we will do it. it will be fine.
>
> i was just planning on when to tell them, not on every moment of whenever. i don't mean to come across defensive i just need to say i let go of perfect years ago.
>
> we're gonna do it wednesday morning. it'll be another amazing day!
>
> ~j
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "marbleface@" <marbleface@> wrote:
> >
> > It won't be perfect. Let go of trying to plan every moment and how they will experience it.
> >
> > Just do it and then move on to giving each person lots and lots of time to figure out how they want their days to go. Not how you envision some perfect something or other, or some resolution of one of your problems. How they want to live now and tomorrow.
> >
> > Nance
> >

JJ

> sigh.
> i was just looking for experiences and thoughts on the subject. i'm not losing any sleep over this. we will do it. it will be fine.
>
> i was just planning on when to tell them, not on every moment of whenever. i don't mean to come across defensive i just need to say i let go of perfect years ago.
>
> we're gonna do it wednesday morning. it'll be another amazing day!


I've read the whole thread. You're not listening, are you? Not to your family or anyone here or apparently even to yourself. This one brief post is shot through with contradictions and ambivalence.

Has it occurred to you that your girls may feel those contradictions and ambivalence pretty keenly, when you wake them from what may not have been a good night's sleep at all, to "tell" them what you've "planned" to turn their lives upside down (again) as you shift back and forth from "I" to "we" as if there were no difference sighing one moment and mindlessly cheerleading the next?

plaidpanties666

I think you're putting waaaaaaayyyyy to much emphasis on a couple of days. Let them get addresses and phone numbers and then get back to living life!

---MEredith

onskates

What i wanted to hear from parents whose kids were taken out of school was their story and experience doing so. knowing people's experiences informs me in a way that helps me gage my thinking. especially in situations where i don't feel steady or clear. and that's why i came here. because we did consider ourselves unschoolers before things started falling apart so to speak. as we all know being a mere human is hard work. especially if all the modeling one has had for being a human has had to come from one's adult life. things take time.

when people come to me with their queries about their life, themselves or some choice they have to make i usually listen long then ask all sorts of questions. i am not them and do not expect them to adopt my opinions. but the fact that someone would come to me tells me that they seek a certain kind of joanne's world input. even though i may see beyond their question doesn't mean i assume i know what they need. our questions and answers here on a discussion board are not face to face and it's super easy to say things that may accidentally feed a preexisting disconnection. at this point everything i say from now on may seem like a defensive posture. i may not be all that good at these boards in the first place.

but i came here on purpose about this concern i had. i did and do want the unschooler's world input. thankfully i have a lot of them in my life still. and all you wonderful people are here so i thought i'd give it a shot.
i don't regret posting my thoughts and questions here but am surprised at feeling slightly filleted. this could be because you all are wonderfully pressing me out of my comfort zone or whatever defective zone i am surely capable of being in and am in in various ways on various levels. it could also be because i feel there may have been presumptions made about me and conclusions drawn before questions were asked. or it could be because the questions asked may have been asked from a place of what feels like superiority. which i don't think would be intended at all and i know saying that might inflame and i don't mean to do that. it's just how it feels. just because someone comes to a board with aspirations for their life doesn't mean they've arrived at their final place of harmony. i experienced some of the things said here in the why don't you get your sh_t together lady sort of way. call me insecure. but this living thing is hard. i am doing my best and am super glad we are at the point where we might have a chance to try again with the girls at home. thank goodness we all in my family keep evolving.

in the end what meant the most to me here with this question on this board was people sharing their experience in exiting the ps system because that is what i have to face now. i have also been informed by everything else that was mentioned in terms of the control/trust issues. i have them. i am painfully aware of them every moment of every day. they are hot spots, burgeoning and fertile areas of my life.

i guess my way of pointing out anyone's muddled thinking is to share my experience. so this board may not work for me in the long run depending on my question. i just think it bums me out to think that as someone who has plenty of foibles i would have to brace myself to come to this board in the future(which is my choice. maybe i'll grow out of that). i might very well return because the topics and discussions here are profoundly important and a huge part of a growing awareness and potential for change in how we think about the life of a child and humans in general.

~joanne


--- In [email protected], Robin Bentley <robin.bentley@...> wrote:
>
>
> > i was just looking for experiences and thoughts on the subject.
>
> Why? What did you want to hear from parents whose kids were taken out
> of school?
>
> When someone asks for a specific answer on a list like this, they
> often find that long-time unschoolers will see beyond the question.
> List members might see muddled thinking or misunderstanding of
> principles. As it's important to be clear from an unschooling point of
> view, those things will be pointed out so others can be helped to
> understand, too. It isn't always about the original poster, even if
> list members clarify with that person.
>
> Robin B.
>