respecting big brother's belongings/space
[email protected]
I really need some help. My younger two sons (6 & 5) have no respect for their brother's (14) space. They think it's the biggest game in the world to sneak into his room and take his things. They hide them,lose them and fib about it and just don't get how upsetting it is for him to be treated with so little respect and consideration.
As a result I find my self getting really upset with them when they do these things and when they don't listen to me I feel really disrespected in turn then I get angry and I lose my temper which just makes the whole thing worse.
I'm trying so hard to be a better, more even tempered mother, to respect their autonomy and their individual needs and personalities but I do think that there needs to be some respect for the needs and personal space of others as well.
I really need some strategies for getting the boys to leave their brother alone and I also need some strategies for not taking it so personally myself, for keeping my temper when it all gets too much.
As a result I find my self getting really upset with them when they do these things and when they don't listen to me I feel really disrespected in turn then I get angry and I lose my temper which just makes the whole thing worse.
I'm trying so hard to be a better, more even tempered mother, to respect their autonomy and their individual needs and personalities but I do think that there needs to be some respect for the needs and personal space of others as well.
I really need some strategies for getting the boys to leave their brother alone and I also need some strategies for not taking it so personally myself, for keeping my temper when it all gets too much.
Schuyler
Probably the best thing you can do is spend more time with your two younger sons
so that they get less opportunity to sneak into their brother's room to steal
his stuff. If they are doing it because they are bored and looking for
entertainment, entertain them more, find more things that they want to do, find
bigger and better games so that they don't even think about winding their
brother up.
Can you get a lock for their brother's room? Even a bolt for the top of the door
so that when he's out he can keep them out and be more reassured that they won't
go in without some supervision. It isn't nearly as good a solution as
entertaining the younger two, but it may help your elder son feel more listened
to and taken seriously.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: "yarnmama@..." <yarnmama@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, 23 October, 2010 16:04:11
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] respecting big brother's belongings/space
I really need some help. My younger two sons (6 & 5) have no respect for their
brother's (14) space. They think it's the biggest game in the world to sneak
into his room and take his things. They hide them,lose them and fib about it
and just don't get how upsetting it is for him to be treated with so little
respect and consideration.
As a result I find my self getting really upset with them when they do these
things and when they don't listen to me I feel really disrespected in turn then
I get angry and I lose my temper which just makes the whole thing worse.
I'm trying so hard to be a better, more even tempered mother, to respect their
autonomy and their individual needs and personalities but I do think that there
needs to be some respect for the needs and personal space of others as well.
I really need some strategies for getting the boys to leave their brother alone
and I also need some strategies for not taking it so personally myself, for
keeping my temper when it all gets too much.
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
so that they get less opportunity to sneak into their brother's room to steal
his stuff. If they are doing it because they are bored and looking for
entertainment, entertain them more, find more things that they want to do, find
bigger and better games so that they don't even think about winding their
brother up.
Can you get a lock for their brother's room? Even a bolt for the top of the door
so that when he's out he can keep them out and be more reassured that they won't
go in without some supervision. It isn't nearly as good a solution as
entertaining the younger two, but it may help your elder son feel more listened
to and taken seriously.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: "yarnmama@..." <yarnmama@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, 23 October, 2010 16:04:11
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] respecting big brother's belongings/space
I really need some help. My younger two sons (6 & 5) have no respect for their
brother's (14) space. They think it's the biggest game in the world to sneak
into his room and take his things. They hide them,lose them and fib about it
and just don't get how upsetting it is for him to be treated with so little
respect and consideration.
As a result I find my self getting really upset with them when they do these
things and when they don't listen to me I feel really disrespected in turn then
I get angry and I lose my temper which just makes the whole thing worse.
I'm trying so hard to be a better, more even tempered mother, to respect their
autonomy and their individual needs and personalities but I do think that there
needs to be some respect for the needs and personal space of others as well.
I really need some strategies for getting the boys to leave their brother alone
and I also need some strategies for not taking it so personally myself, for
keeping my temper when it all gets too much.
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
One of the things we are going to do for him is get him a lock for his door.
I think you are right about the being with them more it tends to happen when I am with their baby sister on the loo, or settling her for a nap.
I think the biggest problem is with me not them, I'm finding it a struggle to deal with four very different personalities and needs on a daily basis, add in the housework and feeding everyone regularly and multiply by high levels of emotional intensity from everyone - including me and you end up with a horrible mess!
I think you are right about the being with them more it tends to happen when I am with their baby sister on the loo, or settling her for a nap.
I think the biggest problem is with me not them, I'm finding it a struggle to deal with four very different personalities and needs on a daily basis, add in the housework and feeding everyone regularly and multiply by high levels of emotional intensity from everyone - including me and you end up with a horrible mess!
--- In [email protected], Schuyler <s.waynforth@...> wrote:
>
> Probably the best thing you can do is spend more time with your two younger sons
> so that they get less opportunity to sneak into their brother's room to steal
> his stuff. If they are doing it because they are bored and looking for
> entertainment, entertain them more, find more things that they want to do, find
> bigger and better games so that they don't even think about winding their
> brother up.
>
> Can you get a lock for their brother's room? Even a bolt for the top of the door
> so that when he's out he can keep them out and be more reassured that they won't
> go in without some supervision. It isn't nearly as good a solution as
> entertaining the younger two, but it may help your elder son feel more listened
> to and taken seriously.
>
> Schuyler
>
>
plaidpanties666
"yarnmama@..." <yarnmama@...> wrote:
My kids are eight years apart in age, so I can relate to having kids who are so far apart, developmentally, that ideas like "respect" and "fun" have totally different meanings. From your younger kids' perspective, they don't "think" what they're doing is a game, they are really playing a game! Its not personal or deliberately mean, although it can become that way if they're accused of being cruel over and over. Its better, as Schuyler pointed out, to both spend more time playing with them and help your older son find a way to maintain his privacy. On top of that, though, talk with your 14yo. Let him know that his brothers are doing this because they want to play with him. The more he can take time to play with them proactively, the better the chances of them letting him have some personal space without it being a giant battle.
Okay, so this is more of a thought exercise for you - how often, in recent months, have you "stolen" and/or "hidden" something from the perspective of a 5 and 6 year old? If your first response is "none" think again! Have you gone through a room and picked up toys, put dirty clothes in the hamper, stacked things neatly out of the way without asking if it was okay with your kids? From an adult perspective, that's just normal housework, but to a young child - the sweater was Here and now its Gone... but mom knows where it is... did she steal it? Is this some weird grown-up game to learn? What's going on?
From the perspective of young children, adults do a Lot of weird, incomprehensible things without ever explaining them. But that doesn't need you need to "explain" everything you do ad nauseum! Do communicate your intentions, though. Invite your kids into your world - I'm picking up dirty clothes, anyone want to help? If they say No, at least they know a little more about what's going on in their world.
It helps a lot, in terms of not taking things your kids do personally, to assume positive intent. That's surprisingly difficult because we're bombarded with messages about kids sneaking and lying and cheating and trying to control us. Whenever you notice yourself assuming kids are doing things for a negative reason, take a moment to step back and think of one other reason, a kinder reason.
All that being said, probably the most Common reason for kids to do things that drive adults and teens bonkers is they want attention - and that's something that's often framed as a negative. Turn it around - human beings need other human beings. We all need attention. Kids need a lot of it! And they depend on their parents to get it.
Here's a cute, somewhat tongue-in-cheek graph showing how much time to spend with kids of different ages, if you're looking for a baseline:
http://sandradodd.com/howto/
---Meredith (Mo 9, Ray 17)
>**********************
> I really need some help. My younger two sons (6 & 5) have no respect for their brother's (14) space. They think it's the biggest game in the world to sneak into his room and take his things.
My kids are eight years apart in age, so I can relate to having kids who are so far apart, developmentally, that ideas like "respect" and "fun" have totally different meanings. From your younger kids' perspective, they don't "think" what they're doing is a game, they are really playing a game! Its not personal or deliberately mean, although it can become that way if they're accused of being cruel over and over. Its better, as Schuyler pointed out, to both spend more time playing with them and help your older son find a way to maintain his privacy. On top of that, though, talk with your 14yo. Let him know that his brothers are doing this because they want to play with him. The more he can take time to play with them proactively, the better the chances of them letting him have some personal space without it being a giant battle.
>> I'm trying so hard to be a better, more even tempered mother, to respect their autonomy and their individual needs and personalities but I do think that there needs to be some respect for the needs and personal space of others as well.***************
Okay, so this is more of a thought exercise for you - how often, in recent months, have you "stolen" and/or "hidden" something from the perspective of a 5 and 6 year old? If your first response is "none" think again! Have you gone through a room and picked up toys, put dirty clothes in the hamper, stacked things neatly out of the way without asking if it was okay with your kids? From an adult perspective, that's just normal housework, but to a young child - the sweater was Here and now its Gone... but mom knows where it is... did she steal it? Is this some weird grown-up game to learn? What's going on?
From the perspective of young children, adults do a Lot of weird, incomprehensible things without ever explaining them. But that doesn't need you need to "explain" everything you do ad nauseum! Do communicate your intentions, though. Invite your kids into your world - I'm picking up dirty clothes, anyone want to help? If they say No, at least they know a little more about what's going on in their world.
It helps a lot, in terms of not taking things your kids do personally, to assume positive intent. That's surprisingly difficult because we're bombarded with messages about kids sneaking and lying and cheating and trying to control us. Whenever you notice yourself assuming kids are doing things for a negative reason, take a moment to step back and think of one other reason, a kinder reason.
All that being said, probably the most Common reason for kids to do things that drive adults and teens bonkers is they want attention - and that's something that's often framed as a negative. Turn it around - human beings need other human beings. We all need attention. Kids need a lot of it! And they depend on their parents to get it.
Here's a cute, somewhat tongue-in-cheek graph showing how much time to spend with kids of different ages, if you're looking for a baseline:
http://sandradodd.com/howto/
---Meredith (Mo 9, Ray 17)
otherstar
From: plaidpanties666
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 5:49 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: respecting big brother's belongings/space
Tonight, my oldest is spending the night with her older cousin and will be going out with her cousins tomorrow. The younger ones are not happy about it. I have had to explain to them that their big sister needs space. They still aren't happy about it but we are trying to find fun things to do with them so they don't think about their big sister being gone. They aren't trying to be mean. They love their big sister and want to be with her all the time.
I do try to talk to my oldest about playing with the younger ones proactively but the older kids can sometimes experience burn out too. They didn't get to choose to have younger siblings. Think about the times that you get burnt out and need space. As an adult, it is easy to understand that it isn't always possible to get that space. Older siblings often get stuck in a position of always being the one to give in and accommodate the younger siblings. I have been talking with some of my family members to try to find more ways to get my oldest daughter out and about and away from her sisters so that she can recharge her batteries and not have to worry about being the big sister.
Connie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 5:49 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: respecting big brother's belongings/space
>>>On top of that, though, talk with your 14yo. Let him know that his brothers are doing this because they want to play with him. The more he can take time to play with them proactively, the better the chances of them letting him have some personal space without it being a giant battle.<<<I have 4 girls and we have some of the same issues. I have always found it to be very helpful to talk to the older ones about what is developmentally appropriate for the younger ones. I also commiserate with them and let the older ones know that I am listening to them. We try to find ways of keeping the important stuff away from the little ones. Sometimes that means that we deliberately "hide" or put things where the younger ones can't get it. When my oldest wants or needs privacy, she will go hide in the bathroom and lock the door. She will take a shower or sit and read her books. I also try to explain to the younger ones that their big sisters needs some space. I try to involve the older ones in finding ways of protecting their stuff. I talk to the older ones about what they were like when they were younger. It's funny because we were talking about this when my niece was with us the other day. She reminded me how she got into my finger nail polish and painted my wall when she was younger. My girls really look up to their cousin so it helped them to hear that she "got into stuff" when she was little. It has helped them be a lot more understanding with the younger ones. Little kids get into stuff, it is really very normal.
Tonight, my oldest is spending the night with her older cousin and will be going out with her cousins tomorrow. The younger ones are not happy about it. I have had to explain to them that their big sister needs space. They still aren't happy about it but we are trying to find fun things to do with them so they don't think about their big sister being gone. They aren't trying to be mean. They love their big sister and want to be with her all the time.
I do try to talk to my oldest about playing with the younger ones proactively but the older kids can sometimes experience burn out too. They didn't get to choose to have younger siblings. Think about the times that you get burnt out and need space. As an adult, it is easy to understand that it isn't always possible to get that space. Older siblings often get stuck in a position of always being the one to give in and accommodate the younger siblings. I have been talking with some of my family members to try to find more ways to get my oldest daughter out and about and away from her sisters so that she can recharge her batteries and not have to worry about being the big sister.
>>>It helps a lot, in terms of not taking things your kids do personally, to assume positive intent. That's surprisingly difficult because we're bombarded with messages about kids sneaking and lying and cheating and trying to control us. Whenever you notice yourself assuming kids are doing things for a negative reason, take a moment to step back and think of one other reason, a kinder reason.<<<This is huge! This is something that we are always working on as a family. Whenever one of us assumes something negative, we (as a family) try to find the positive. When my 6 year old can't find her DS, she will sometimes get very upset and assume that somebody stole it or hid it from her. Sometimes, she can't find it because I took it away from her little sister and put it where it won't get messed up. My 6 year old doesn't always remember to put stuff where her little sisters can't get it. Her little sister (20 months old) will sometimes pick up the DS because she sees everyone else play with it. It is more out of curiosity than anything else.
Connie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Get the 14-year-old a lock. Tell him to use it. The younger ones will be unhappy but they will get over it.
Nance
Nance
--- In [email protected], "yarnmama@..." <yarnmama@...> wrote:
>
> I really need some help. My younger two sons (6 & 5) have no respect for their brother's (14) space. They think it's the biggest game in the world to sneak into his room and take his things. They hide them,lose them and fib about it and just don't get how upsetting it is for him to be treated with so little respect and consideration.
>
> As a result I find my self getting really upset with them when they do these things and when they don't listen to me I feel really disrespected in turn then I get angry and I lose my temper which just makes the whole thing worse.
>
> I'm trying so hard to be a better, more even tempered mother, to respect their autonomy and their individual needs and personalities but I do think that there needs to be some respect for the needs and personal space of others as well.
>
> I really need some strategies for getting the boys to leave their brother alone and I also need some strategies for not taking it so personally myself, for keeping my temper when it all gets too much.
>
The Coffee Goddess
I was going to make a suggestion like this as well...
kids. I have an 18 yo, a 12.5, yo, and a 2.5yo. My big kids are VERY sweet
with their little sister, and she's in turn very sweet with them. They know to
put up their special things, and that she wouldn't purposefully hurt them, and
they each have favorite games they like to play with her, so that when she
wanders into their rooms they greet her with a smile and start in with calling
her puppy and offering her a bone, or singing a song with her that is "their
thing" together. Whatever. But they connect and she loved them and she moves
on. She's not trying to get their attention, they give it freely to her and she
has all the love she needs. Because of this we have zero battles. We had about
10 unschooled teens (er, 7 unschooled teens and 3 schooled teens) over for a
sleep over last night, and they were all sweet to and included the two year old,
and she would play with them for a while, then with papa, then with another mama
who was visiting, then with mama, then asked to go to sleep. Everyone from 2.5
to 4o-something had a great time at the same party and no one had any feelings
of not being wanted :)
Dana
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>On top of that, though, talk with your 14yo. Let him know that his brothers areIt seems to me that families who respect kids raise big kids who respect little
>>>doing this because they want to play with him. The more he can take time to
>>>play with them proactively, the better the chances of them letting him have
>>>some personal space without it being a giant battle.<<<
kids. I have an 18 yo, a 12.5, yo, and a 2.5yo. My big kids are VERY sweet
with their little sister, and she's in turn very sweet with them. They know to
put up their special things, and that she wouldn't purposefully hurt them, and
they each have favorite games they like to play with her, so that when she
wanders into their rooms they greet her with a smile and start in with calling
her puppy and offering her a bone, or singing a song with her that is "their
thing" together. Whatever. But they connect and she loved them and she moves
on. She's not trying to get their attention, they give it freely to her and she
has all the love she needs. Because of this we have zero battles. We had about
10 unschooled teens (er, 7 unschooled teens and 3 schooled teens) over for a
sleep over last night, and they were all sweet to and included the two year old,
and she would play with them for a while, then with papa, then with another mama
who was visiting, then with mama, then asked to go to sleep. Everyone from 2.5
to 4o-something had a great time at the same party and no one had any feelings
of not being wanted :)
Dana
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mog D
It's been .a while I know, but I wanted to say thank you all for all of your advice and suggestions.
D.s 1 now has locks on both his doors, the wee ones still pretend to break in but they do it in a really overt and jokey way (trying to get him to play with them).
Things have improved but they are still desperate for his attention so are trying other ways to get his attention all of which seem to push his buttons. I'm doing a lot better at staying calm and not getting my emotional responses mixed up with theirs so it doesn't seem as bad as it might.
One thing has become apparent to me is that it is HIS attention they are after, I have told him this and offered suggestions as to how he might deal with them - hopefully he'll act on them one day.
Thank you
Morag
D.s 1 now has locks on both his doors, the wee ones still pretend to break in but they do it in a really overt and jokey way (trying to get him to play with them).
Things have improved but they are still desperate for his attention so are trying other ways to get his attention all of which seem to push his buttons. I'm doing a lot better at staying calm and not getting my emotional responses mixed up with theirs so it doesn't seem as bad as it might.
One thing has become apparent to me is that it is HIS attention they are after, I have told him this and offered suggestions as to how he might deal with them - hopefully he'll act on them one day.
Thank you
Morag
--- In [email protected], "otherstar" <otherstar@...> wrote:
>
> From: plaidpanties666
> Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 5:49 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: respecting big brother's belongings/space
>
>
> >>>On top of that, though, talk with your 14yo. Let him know that his brothers are doing this because they want to play with him. The more he can take time to play with them proactively, the better the chances of them letting him have some personal space without it being a giant battle.<<<
>
> I have 4 girls and we have some of the same issues. I have always found it to be very helpful to talk to the older ones about what is developmentally appropriate for the younger ones. I also commiserate with them and let the older ones know that I am listening to them. We try to find ways of keeping the important stuff away from the little ones. Sometimes that means that we deliberately "hide" or put things where the younger ones can't get it. When my oldest wants or needs privacy, she will go hide in the bathroom and lock the door. She will take a shower or sit and read her books. I also try to explain to the younger ones that their big sisters needs some space. I try to involve the older ones in finding ways of protecting their stuff. I talk to the older ones about what they were like when they were younger. It's funny because we were talking about this when my niece was with us the other day. She reminded me how she got into my finger nail polish and painted my wall when she was younger. My girls really look up to their cousin so it helped them to hear that she "got into stuff" when she was little. It has helped them be a lot more understanding with the younger ones. Little kids get into stuff, it is really very normal.
>
> Tonight, my oldest is spending the night with her older cousin and will be going out with her cousins tomorrow. The younger ones are not happy about it. I have had to explain to them that their big sister needs space. They still aren't happy about it but we are trying to find fun things to do with them so they don't think about their big sister being gone. They aren't trying to be mean. They love their big sister and want to be with her all the time.
>
> I do try to talk to my oldest about playing with the younger ones proactively but the older kids can sometimes experience burn out too. They didn't get to choose to have younger siblings. Think about the times that you get burnt out and need space. As an adult, it is easy to understand that it isn't always possible to get that space. Older siblings often get stuck in a position of always being the one to give in and accommodate the younger siblings. I have been talking with some of my family members to try to find more ways to get my oldest daughter out and about and away from her sisters so that she can recharge her batteries and not have to worry about being the big sister.
>
> >>>It helps a lot, in terms of not taking things your kids do personally, to assume positive intent. That's surprisingly difficult because we're bombarded with messages about kids sneaking and lying and cheating and trying to control us. Whenever you notice yourself assuming kids are doing things for a negative reason, take a moment to step back and think of one other reason, a kinder reason.<<<
>
> This is huge! This is something that we are always working on as a family. Whenever one of us assumes something negative, we (as a family) try to find the positive. When my 6 year old can't find her DS, she will sometimes get very upset and assume that somebody stole it or hid it from her. Sometimes, she can't find it because I took it away from her little sister and put it where it won't get messed up. My 6 year old doesn't always remember to put stuff where her little sisters can't get it. Her little sister (20 months old) will sometimes pick up the DS because she sees everyone else play with it. It is more out of curiosity than anything else.
>
> Connie
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>