Sociability
[email protected]
Hi,
I'm new here. I have a 3 year old son who we are unschooling and, if I understand the terminology correctly, radically unschooling too. I wanted to ask for your opinions. My son is not interested in other children, and is very against sharing anything of his. I do not mind, nor do I push him - but I get a very hard time about it from most of my friends. Everyone I know thinks I am doing my son a disservice by not forcefully encouraging him to be more social or share. He is very social with adults, and very smart. He knows his dad's phone number already and we talk about atoms and electrons (electricity is his passion). Anyway, I just wanted an opinion from people who are more like minded as to whether you think I should push him or allow him to come to it all in his own time. FYI, my husband and I are very social so his model is sociability. Thanks so much for the group and the opinions, Sarah x
I'm new here. I have a 3 year old son who we are unschooling and, if I understand the terminology correctly, radically unschooling too. I wanted to ask for your opinions. My son is not interested in other children, and is very against sharing anything of his. I do not mind, nor do I push him - but I get a very hard time about it from most of my friends. Everyone I know thinks I am doing my son a disservice by not forcefully encouraging him to be more social or share. He is very social with adults, and very smart. He knows his dad's phone number already and we talk about atoms and electrons (electricity is his passion). Anyway, I just wanted an opinion from people who are more like minded as to whether you think I should push him or allow him to come to it all in his own time. FYI, my husband and I are very social so his model is sociability. Thanks so much for the group and the opinions, Sarah x
jess gray
I have 3 boys, my 5 yr old prefers his own company but on the odd occasion may socialise with adults or older teens, i think this is due to the fact adults and teens are more likely to be more patient when he tries to get his words out, (he has an expressive speech delay) and adults dont really mind his behavioural quirks (lining things up etc). He does see other children, but it does take alot of preparing him , for a week or so before hand i have to tell him what he will be doing that day and who he will see etc.
my 3 and half year old, well..he used to social but recently started having anxiety to the point he hyperventaltes if he goes out :( so I can relate to your worry. I wouldn't push or force, if the children are there, and he shows interest encourage him but if he isnt into playing i wouldnt worry.Jess
To: [email protected]
From: shackleton@...
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 04:48:14 +0000
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Sociability
Hi,
I'm new here. I have a 3 year old son who we are unschooling and, if I understand the terminology correctly, radically unschooling too. I wanted to ask for your opinions. My son is not interested in other children, and is very against sharing anything of his. I do not mind, nor do I push him - but I get a very hard time about it from most of my friends. Everyone I know thinks I am doing my son a disservice by not forcefully encouraging him to be more social or share. He is very social with adults, and very smart. He knows his dad's phone number already and we talk about atoms and electrons (electricity is his passion). Anyway, I just wanted an opinion from people who are more like minded as to whether you think I should push him or allow him to come to it all in his own time. FYI, my husband and I are very social so his model is sociability. Thanks so much for the group and the opinions, Sarah x
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
my 3 and half year old, well..he used to social but recently started having anxiety to the point he hyperventaltes if he goes out :( so I can relate to your worry. I wouldn't push or force, if the children are there, and he shows interest encourage him but if he isnt into playing i wouldnt worry.Jess
To: [email protected]
From: shackleton@...
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 04:48:14 +0000
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Sociability
Hi,
I'm new here. I have a 3 year old son who we are unschooling and, if I understand the terminology correctly, radically unschooling too. I wanted to ask for your opinions. My son is not interested in other children, and is very against sharing anything of his. I do not mind, nor do I push him - but I get a very hard time about it from most of my friends. Everyone I know thinks I am doing my son a disservice by not forcefully encouraging him to be more social or share. He is very social with adults, and very smart. He knows his dad's phone number already and we talk about atoms and electrons (electricity is his passion). Anyway, I just wanted an opinion from people who are more like minded as to whether you think I should push him or allow him to come to it all in his own time. FYI, my husband and I are very social so his model is sociability. Thanks so much for the group and the opinions, Sarah x
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
otherstar
Go do a search on social skills for a 3 year old. Even mainstream websites state that it is normal for a 3 year old to not want to share. It is normal for a 3 year old to not be interested in playing with other kids. Most of the websites say that 3 year olds like to play near other children but not with them.
I have four kids, one of which is a 3 year old. She doesn't like to share. Sometimes, she will share with her sisters but not often. All of my girls have gradually come to it in their own time. However, there are things that they won't share and that is fine. I don't expect my 5 year old to share her expensive DS with her 3 year old sister.
Connie
From: shackleton@...
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:48 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Sociability
Hi,
I'm new here. I have a 3 year old son who we are unschooling and, if I understand the terminology correctly, radically unschooling too. I wanted to ask for your opinions. My son is not interested in other children, and is very against sharing anything of his. I do not mind, nor do I push him - but I get a very hard time about it from most of my friends. Everyone I know thinks I am doing my son a disservice by not forcefully encouraging him to be more social or share. He is very social with adults, and very smart. He knows his dad's phone number already and we talk about atoms and electrons (electricity is his passion). Anyway, I just wanted an opinion from people who are more like minded as to whether you think I should push him or allow him to come to it all in his own time. FYI, my husband and I are very social so his model is sociability. Thanks so much for the group and the opinions, Sarah x
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have four kids, one of which is a 3 year old. She doesn't like to share. Sometimes, she will share with her sisters but not often. All of my girls have gradually come to it in their own time. However, there are things that they won't share and that is fine. I don't expect my 5 year old to share her expensive DS with her 3 year old sister.
Connie
From: shackleton@...
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:48 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Sociability
Hi,
I'm new here. I have a 3 year old son who we are unschooling and, if I understand the terminology correctly, radically unschooling too. I wanted to ask for your opinions. My son is not interested in other children, and is very against sharing anything of his. I do not mind, nor do I push him - but I get a very hard time about it from most of my friends. Everyone I know thinks I am doing my son a disservice by not forcefully encouraging him to be more social or share. He is very social with adults, and very smart. He knows his dad's phone number already and we talk about atoms and electrons (electricity is his passion). Anyway, I just wanted an opinion from people who are more like minded as to whether you think I should push him or allow him to come to it all in his own time. FYI, my husband and I are very social so his model is sociability. Thanks so much for the group and the opinions, Sarah x
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3065 - Release Date: 08/11/10 13:34:00
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sacha Davis
Hi Sarah! I have a 3 y/o son who is not a hugely social kid. I like to
call him Mr. Aloof, but he just isn't interested in other kids, he's not
the life of the party, he's totally happy just with his parents or his
grandparents. Oh, and while he is a sweet and thoughtful boy, he does not
readily share. We do talk about sharing and how it's a nice thing to do
that makes other people feel welcome, but we don't force sharing AT ALL.
If he does or doesn't want to share, it's his perogative.
You are absolutely NOT doing your son a disservice. You are doing exactly
the opposite. You're allowing him to be who he is, which might be an
introvert, might be someone who is happier alone, but you're allowing him
to be comfortable in his own skin instead of pushing the expectations of
others onto him. Instead of spending his life wondering what's wrong with
him, he'll accept who he is. It's a beautiful thing.
As a fellow mother to a not-so-social kid, I know it's really hard. I
have a hard time meeting my own minimal social needs. I also have to deal
with (well-meaning) people who somehow think my son should be different,
or that I need to socialize him. Nope. Ultimately as his parent I'm
responsible for his well-being and pushing him into situations he either
can't handle, or doesn't want to participate in, does NOT work for my kid.
Your son is totally in the normal realm of social behavior for a three
year old!
Sacha
call him Mr. Aloof, but he just isn't interested in other kids, he's not
the life of the party, he's totally happy just with his parents or his
grandparents. Oh, and while he is a sweet and thoughtful boy, he does not
readily share. We do talk about sharing and how it's a nice thing to do
that makes other people feel welcome, but we don't force sharing AT ALL.
If he does or doesn't want to share, it's his perogative.
You are absolutely NOT doing your son a disservice. You are doing exactly
the opposite. You're allowing him to be who he is, which might be an
introvert, might be someone who is happier alone, but you're allowing him
to be comfortable in his own skin instead of pushing the expectations of
others onto him. Instead of spending his life wondering what's wrong with
him, he'll accept who he is. It's a beautiful thing.
As a fellow mother to a not-so-social kid, I know it's really hard. I
have a hard time meeting my own minimal social needs. I also have to deal
with (well-meaning) people who somehow think my son should be different,
or that I need to socialize him. Nope. Ultimately as his parent I'm
responsible for his well-being and pushing him into situations he either
can't handle, or doesn't want to participate in, does NOT work for my kid.
Your son is totally in the normal realm of social behavior for a three
year old!
Sacha
> Hi,
> I'm new here. I have a 3 year old son who we are unschooling and, if I
> understand the terminology correctly, radically unschooling too. I wanted
> to ask for your opinions. My son is not interested in other children, and
> is very against sharing anything of his. I do not mind, nor do I push him
> - but I get a very hard time about it from most of my friends. Everyone I
> know thinks I am doing my son a disservice by not forcefully encouraging
> him to be more social or share. He is very social with adults, and very
> smart. He knows his dad's phone number already and we talk about atoms
> and electrons (electricity is his passion). Anyway, I just wanted an
> opinion from people who are more like minded as to whether you think I
> should push him or allow him to come to it all in his own time. FYI, my
> husband and I are very social so his model is sociability. Thanks so much
> for the group and the opinions, Sarah x
>
>
plaidpanties666
"shackleton@..." <shackleton@...> wrote:
Young children often have a hard time with the idea of "sharing" which from the child's point of view tends to mean giving something up, for reasons that don't make much sense. So it turns into a rule, something that a child might comply with, if he or she is in the mood, or will resist if not in the mood. True sharing is something that arises from a sense of abundance and caring, and if you are generous and caring of your child, he can't help but learn the value of those things.
If he's very protective of his own things, have play-dates elsewhere or discover which things are most dear and put them away when company comes to visit. Company coming over is a good time to have a rule, actually, like "no guests in the bedroom". That gives you a place to put things your ds doesn't want to share, and a place for your ds to retreat if he needs a break (may not be an issue for him, but it is for one of my kids).
All that being said, many kids who aren't willing to "share" are much more willing to "take turns" - but that can take a good deal of adult facilitation, saying "when you're done with that, so-and-so would like a turn" and then keeping so-and-so happy and distracted while waiting. Whenever your child is playing with others, be in the midst of it all. That will give your friends something else to complain about ;)
Really, that's the other side of the whole thing - moms get together to have some adult conversational time and wouldn't it be nice if toddlers and young children would keep each other entertained? Too bad toddlers and young children don't have the social skills to do that on their own very well. Kids need more than "supervision" they need adult presence and support.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
>I do not mind, nor do I push him - but I get a very hard time about it from most of my friends. Everyone I know thinks I am doing my son a disservice by not forcefully encouraging him to be more social or share.*****************
Young children often have a hard time with the idea of "sharing" which from the child's point of view tends to mean giving something up, for reasons that don't make much sense. So it turns into a rule, something that a child might comply with, if he or she is in the mood, or will resist if not in the mood. True sharing is something that arises from a sense of abundance and caring, and if you are generous and caring of your child, he can't help but learn the value of those things.
If he's very protective of his own things, have play-dates elsewhere or discover which things are most dear and put them away when company comes to visit. Company coming over is a good time to have a rule, actually, like "no guests in the bedroom". That gives you a place to put things your ds doesn't want to share, and a place for your ds to retreat if he needs a break (may not be an issue for him, but it is for one of my kids).
All that being said, many kids who aren't willing to "share" are much more willing to "take turns" - but that can take a good deal of adult facilitation, saying "when you're done with that, so-and-so would like a turn" and then keeping so-and-so happy and distracted while waiting. Whenever your child is playing with others, be in the midst of it all. That will give your friends something else to complain about ;)
Really, that's the other side of the whole thing - moms get together to have some adult conversational time and wouldn't it be nice if toddlers and young children would keep each other entertained? Too bad toddlers and young children don't have the social skills to do that on their own very well. Kids need more than "supervision" they need adult presence and support.
>> He is very social with adultsLots of kids are more social with adults than other children - especially homeschooled (including unschooled) kids, who aren't stuck in the insanity of dozens of children to a single adult. Its Natural for kids to want to hang around adults - they want the benefit of our knowledge and perspective (they just don't want it shoved on them).
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
sharon
Not wanting to share things at the age of 3 is very developmentally appropriate. So many parents force their kids to share. When my kids were that age, and even several years older, I would help them put some toys away before playdates. Before a playdate we would put toys in their room that they didn't want to share and leave out toys that they were comfortable with their friend using. Sometimes they would even get excited about picking out toys that they knew their friend would like. If a struggle came up during the playdate I would say something like, "------ is not ready to share that right now." Then I would offer the friend another toy to play with. It was a way of respecting my child's need/desire to not share. Most parents say, "You need to share your toys." IMO, that is being disrespectful of the child who is not ready to do that. Kids at that age and older are wanting a sense of ownership and "mine."
At age 3, I was maintained close contact with my children during playdates because there can often be conflicts. My role was, and still is, at times, the role of a mediator. Lots of parental involvement at a young age usually means less later on.
Perhaps he feels safer with adults because he knows they won't grab his stuff. Or, maybe that is just where he is at right now.
Best,
Sharon
At age 3, I was maintained close contact with my children during playdates because there can often be conflicts. My role was, and still is, at times, the role of a mediator. Lots of parental involvement at a young age usually means less later on.
Perhaps he feels safer with adults because he knows they won't grab his stuff. Or, maybe that is just where he is at right now.
Best,
Sharon
--- In [email protected], "shackleton@..." <shackleton@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I'm new here. I have a 3 year old son who we are unschooling and, if I understand the terminology correctly, radically unschooling too. I wanted to ask for your opinions. My son is not interested in other children, and is very against sharing anything of his. I do not mind, nor do I push him - but I get a very hard time about it from most of my friends. Everyone I know thinks I am doing my son a disservice by not forcefully encouraging him to be more social or share. He is very social with adults, and very smart. He knows his dad's phone number already and we talk about atoms and electrons (electricity is his passion). Anyway, I just wanted an opinion from people who are more like minded as to whether you think I should push him or allow him to come to it all in his own time. FYI, my husband and I are very social so his model is sociability. Thanks so much for the group and the opinions, Sarah x
>
Kelly Lovejoy
I remember when Cameron was a toddler, my 18 year old neighbor kept telling me that I needed to make him share or he would be stingy and never learn to share---especially if he were an only child. I responded that, if *I* shared with him, he would learn to share. And *I* would always be extra generous. Sharing was something I did happily and often. Cameron really never knew any other way. But he also didn't have another toddler or baby always trying to take his stuff away. He only saw *my* generosity---and his father's. And all the other adults and much older children we knew.
He's always been generous, and I think it was because he had the constant examples of generosity. NOT because he was made to share.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
-----Original Message-----
--- In [email protected], "shackleton@..." <shackleton@...>
wrote:
ask for your opinions. My son is not interested in other children, and is very
against sharing anything of his. I do not mind, nor do I push him - but I get a
very hard time about it from most of my friends. Everyone I know thinks I am
doing my son a disservice by not forcefully encouraging him to be more social or
share. He is very social with adults, and very smart. He knows his dad's phone
number already and we talk about atoms and electrons (electricity is his
passion). Anyway, I just wanted an opinion from people who are more like minded
as to whether you think I should push him or allow him to come to it all in his
own time. FYI, my husband and I are very social so his model is sociability.
Thanks so much for the group and the opinions, Sarah x
He's always been generous, and I think it was because he had the constant examples of generosity. NOT because he was made to share.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
"There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
-----Original Message-----
--- In [email protected], "shackleton@..." <shackleton@...>
wrote:
>understand the terminology correctly, radically unschooling too. I wanted to
> Hi,
> I'm new here. I have a 3 year old son who we are unschooling and, if I
ask for your opinions. My son is not interested in other children, and is very
against sharing anything of his. I do not mind, nor do I push him - but I get a
very hard time about it from most of my friends. Everyone I know thinks I am
doing my son a disservice by not forcefully encouraging him to be more social or
share. He is very social with adults, and very smart. He knows his dad's phone
number already and we talk about atoms and electrons (electricity is his
passion). Anyway, I just wanted an opinion from people who are more like minded
as to whether you think I should push him or allow him to come to it all in his
own time. FYI, my husband and I are very social so his model is sociability.
Thanks so much for the group and the opinions, Sarah x
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
always.october
This really resonated with me, as an introvert. When I was growing up, I was quite content to play by myself. Sharing was something I knew how to do and understood, but to me, it represented sharing not just whatever I was playing with but sharing *myself* as well. And I didn't necessarily want to do that whenever well-meaning adults thought I should! I don't think I understood it in those terms, but looking back at it now, I see that that was what was going on. Someone would come up and want to play with what I was playing with, and I was resistant to the idea or at least grudgingly went along with it -- when inside, I just wanted to be left alone with my toy *and* (more importantly) myself and my thoughts.
Lucy
Lucy
--- In [email protected], "Sacha Davis" <sacha@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Sarah! I have a 3 y/o son who is not a hugely social kid. I like to
> call him Mr. Aloof, but he just isn't interested in other kids, he's not
> the life of the party, he's totally happy just with his parents or his
> grandparents. Oh, and while he is a sweet and thoughtful boy, he does not
> readily share. We do talk about sharing and how it's a nice thing to do
> that makes other people feel welcome, but we don't force sharing AT ALL.
> If he does or doesn't want to share, it's his perogative.
>
> You are absolutely NOT doing your son a disservice. You are doing exactly
> the opposite. You're allowing him to be who he is, which might be an
> introvert, might be someone who is happier alone, but you're allowing him
> to be comfortable in his own skin instead of pushing the expectations of
> others onto him. Instead of spending his life wondering what's wrong with
> him, he'll accept who he is. It's a beautiful thing.
>
> As a fellow mother to a not-so-social kid, I know it's really hard. I
> have a hard time meeting my own minimal social needs. I also have to deal
> with (well-meaning) people who somehow think my son should be different,
> or that I need to socialize him. Nope. Ultimately as his parent I'm
> responsible for his well-being and pushing him into situations he either
> can't handle, or doesn't want to participate in, does NOT work for my kid.
>
> Your son is totally in the normal realm of social behavior for a three
> year old!
>
> Sacha
Meryl Ranzer
****Really, that's the other side of the whole thing - moms get together to have some adult conversational time and wouldn't it be nice if toddlers and young children would keep each other entertained? Too bad toddlers and young children don't have the social skills to do that on their own very well. Kids need more than "supervision" they need adult presence and support.****
In most social situations, either me or my husband are the only adults on the ground playing with our 3.5 year old son and the other kids.
We enjoy the social interactions with other adults, so we sort of take turns. It just happened naturally, not planned.
The most important thing to us is that Logan is comfortable because he isn't that into being with too many people, (big or little).
It's rare to see other parents on the jungle gym :)
Meryl
Meryl Ranzer
mranzer@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
In most social situations, either me or my husband are the only adults on the ground playing with our 3.5 year old son and the other kids.
We enjoy the social interactions with other adults, so we sort of take turns. It just happened naturally, not planned.
The most important thing to us is that Logan is comfortable because he isn't that into being with too many people, (big or little).
It's rare to see other parents on the jungle gym :)
Meryl
Meryl Ranzer
mranzer@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wendy dillistone
How is it called sharing to have someone bigger than you, take away your things and give them to someone else. To force someone to give their things to someone else is not to teach sharing as a concept, rather to teach about vunrability and coersion.
The only way to share is to choose to give your belonging to someone else of your own choosing and to hope that it comes back to you.
Wendy
The only way to share is to choose to give your belonging to someone else of your own choosing and to hope that it comes back to you.
Wendy
--- In [email protected], Kelly Lovejoy <kbcdlovejo@...> wrote:
>
>
> I remember when Cameron was a toddler, my 18 year old neighbor kept telling me that I needed to make him share or he would be stingy and never learn to share---especially if he were an only child. I responded that, if *I* shared with him, he would learn to share. And *I* would always be extra generous. Sharing was something I did happily and often. Cameron really never knew any other way. But he also didn't have another toddler or baby always trying to take his stuff away. He only saw *my* generosity---and his father's. And all the other adults and much older children we knew.
>
>
> He's always been generous, and I think it was because he had the constant examples of generosity. NOT because he was made to share.
>
>
>
> ~Kelly
>
> Kelly Lovejoy
> "There is no single effort more radical in its potential for saving the world than a transformation of the way we raise our children." Marianne Williamson
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> --- In [email protected], "shackleton@" <shackleton@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > I'm new here. I have a 3 year old son who we are unschooling and, if I
> understand the terminology correctly, radically unschooling too. I wanted to
> ask for your opinions. My son is not interested in other children, and is very
> against sharing anything of his. I do not mind, nor do I push him - but I get a
> very hard time about it from most of my friends. Everyone I know thinks I am
> doing my son a disservice by not forcefully encouraging him to be more social or
> share. He is very social with adults, and very smart. He knows his dad's phone
> number already and we talk about atoms and electrons (electricity is his
> passion). Anyway, I just wanted an opinion from people who are more like minded
> as to whether you think I should push him or allow him to come to it all in his
> own time. FYI, my husband and I are very social so his model is sociability.
> Thanks so much for the group and the opinions, Sarah x
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
t_guyonvarch
My son, now 4.5, has always been happy to share his things from early age, even though I never asked him to at the time, but because both me and my husband always play with him so he sees that it's more fun to play with someone as stories can be more interestingly made up. At about the age of 3 he shows an interest to see other children (he kept asking to see this or that child etc). So I did try to meet up more often with other mum with similar aged kids.
Last year I was new to homeschooling and didn't know about unschooling. I met someone who I think is doing unschooling. Her son is about the same age as my son, so we thought we'd try to meet up to see if they get on.
One day I invited this family and another family also with kids of similar age as my son. At some point, I was the only adult to be with the kids as the other mums were chatting in the kitchen. At that moment, one of the boys was playing with my son's train set that my son was also so much into at that stage. My son didn't mind that he played with his trains, but he wanted to join in the play as he always does it with me and my husband. But this kid from the unschooling mum was shouting at my son "get off, get off it". My son was very sad because he really wanted to play together, and also from my point of view that was the main reason of inviting these kids to our place. I tried to give my son another train to play with and explained that he wants to play on his own for now (as I remember his mum once told me that she doesn't ask her son to share if he deosn't want to) but my son said with lots of tears that he wants to play with this kid. I then asked this kid gently if my son could join his play, he said no, leave me alone. I then asked again, could he take turn/share as this is my son's toys? He said very forcefully, I hate you, I don't want to play here anymore. That broke my heart. It took me a very long time, probably four months or more later, to have enough courage to meet up with this family again.
The next time we met up, similar thing happened again, so I decided not to meet up with this family again (though after about six months later I decided to try again but this time not inviting them to my house but we met up outdoor). In between this two occasions, we also met another family, not unschooling family though, who's got a daughter who also did the same thing. Sometime around this, I notice that now my son often doesn't want to share (especially when he's tired) and worse, he also shouted to express this, copying these two other kids. I felt so angry to myself for letting this to happen. It took a long time to undo the damage. Nowadays my son is happy to share again (after a long period of not meeting these two families), though there are still occasions when he doesn't want to, albeit rarely.
I don't know what you all will think of this story, I just want to tell you another view point. It is certainly not nice being at the receiving end of the result of unschooling approach. I now understand better about unschooling, though may not be all of it yet, so I understand this mum's stand and appreciate that. However, until her son learn to share, I will not meet up with her anymore, or only very rarely and also outdoor so it's easier to get my son away from this kid. It's also true that other kids can influence my kid's behaviour in a not so nice way, even though the family is also doing unschooling.
In my opinion, it is good not to push our opinion on our kids but it is also ok to explain sometimes what could be a nice thing to do. If they decided not to do it, then so be it. In the case of this kid, he may never see the consequence of his action as he would never know why we never invite him to our place anymore. An opportunity of building friendship is lost, though his mum said once that he now seems to look for relationship with other kids.
By the way, we have never been invited to their place, and from what I gather, they also rarely invite others, so this kid doesn't have a lot of opportunity to learn that it could be nice to share his things, other than with his younger sibling. Not that I feel the need to go to their place (though my son used to ask to go to their place), but when sharing is only one way, it gets tiring after a while.
Last year I was new to homeschooling and didn't know about unschooling. I met someone who I think is doing unschooling. Her son is about the same age as my son, so we thought we'd try to meet up to see if they get on.
One day I invited this family and another family also with kids of similar age as my son. At some point, I was the only adult to be with the kids as the other mums were chatting in the kitchen. At that moment, one of the boys was playing with my son's train set that my son was also so much into at that stage. My son didn't mind that he played with his trains, but he wanted to join in the play as he always does it with me and my husband. But this kid from the unschooling mum was shouting at my son "get off, get off it". My son was very sad because he really wanted to play together, and also from my point of view that was the main reason of inviting these kids to our place. I tried to give my son another train to play with and explained that he wants to play on his own for now (as I remember his mum once told me that she doesn't ask her son to share if he deosn't want to) but my son said with lots of tears that he wants to play with this kid. I then asked this kid gently if my son could join his play, he said no, leave me alone. I then asked again, could he take turn/share as this is my son's toys? He said very forcefully, I hate you, I don't want to play here anymore. That broke my heart. It took me a very long time, probably four months or more later, to have enough courage to meet up with this family again.
The next time we met up, similar thing happened again, so I decided not to meet up with this family again (though after about six months later I decided to try again but this time not inviting them to my house but we met up outdoor). In between this two occasions, we also met another family, not unschooling family though, who's got a daughter who also did the same thing. Sometime around this, I notice that now my son often doesn't want to share (especially when he's tired) and worse, he also shouted to express this, copying these two other kids. I felt so angry to myself for letting this to happen. It took a long time to undo the damage. Nowadays my son is happy to share again (after a long period of not meeting these two families), though there are still occasions when he doesn't want to, albeit rarely.
I don't know what you all will think of this story, I just want to tell you another view point. It is certainly not nice being at the receiving end of the result of unschooling approach. I now understand better about unschooling, though may not be all of it yet, so I understand this mum's stand and appreciate that. However, until her son learn to share, I will not meet up with her anymore, or only very rarely and also outdoor so it's easier to get my son away from this kid. It's also true that other kids can influence my kid's behaviour in a not so nice way, even though the family is also doing unschooling.
In my opinion, it is good not to push our opinion on our kids but it is also ok to explain sometimes what could be a nice thing to do. If they decided not to do it, then so be it. In the case of this kid, he may never see the consequence of his action as he would never know why we never invite him to our place anymore. An opportunity of building friendship is lost, though his mum said once that he now seems to look for relationship with other kids.
By the way, we have never been invited to their place, and from what I gather, they also rarely invite others, so this kid doesn't have a lot of opportunity to learn that it could be nice to share his things, other than with his younger sibling. Not that I feel the need to go to their place (though my son used to ask to go to their place), but when sharing is only one way, it gets tiring after a while.
plaidpanties666
"t_guyonvarch" <titiskarweni@...> wrote:
This is something that's alllllllll about personality, not parenting, at all. Some kids really love to play with other children as early as 3, others aren't really ready to play with other kids until 5 - and some kids are never ready to play with "age peers" until they're 25 or so ;) Some people just like grownups better than kids! If your son is very social and engaging, likes to make up stories, that's about him, not you, and an absense of those abilities in other young children isn't some kind of flaw, its a normal difference in human development.
Two totally different, normal personalities! It sounds like the mom needed the "play date" more than her kid - that's not uncommon with moms of little kids, even among unschoolers. Sometimes moms go a little stir crazy and need to get out. That's not about unschooling or homeschooling, its about human nature. Unschooling doesn't make someone automatically a perfect parent ;) We have our bad days and lapses of judgement, too.
There will likely be other times when your son is the more outgoing of playmates. If his feelings tend to be easily hurt, it can help to talk about differences - we did that with Ray when he was little and soooooo social. He didn't understand why other people didn't want to play and socialize with him - and it wasn't about him, it was about personality. He wasn't sure he Believed that some people were more private and liked to be alone, but he was willing to accept that as a possiblility anyway.
If your son could understand that at 3, then be advised that he was a bit precocious - other 3yos won't have much ability to see things from others' perspectives, which is why many 3yos still aren't very interestied in other young children, or if they are have very poor social skills! Its Normal for three year olds to have poor social skills and need a loooooot of adult intervention when playing with other children.
---Meredith
>***************
> My son, now 4.5, has always been happy to share his things from early age, even though I never asked him to at the time, but because both me and my husband always play with him so he sees that it's more fun to play with someone as stories can be more interestingly made up.
This is something that's alllllllll about personality, not parenting, at all. Some kids really love to play with other children as early as 3, others aren't really ready to play with other kids until 5 - and some kids are never ready to play with "age peers" until they're 25 or so ;) Some people just like grownups better than kids! If your son is very social and engaging, likes to make up stories, that's about him, not you, and an absense of those abilities in other young children isn't some kind of flaw, its a normal difference in human development.
>>I tried to give my son another train to play with and explained that he wants to play on his own for now (as I remember his mum once told me that she doesn't ask her son to share if he deosn't want to) but my son said with lots of tears that he wants to play with this kid. I then asked this kid gently if my son could join his play, he said no, leave me alone.**************
Two totally different, normal personalities! It sounds like the mom needed the "play date" more than her kid - that's not uncommon with moms of little kids, even among unschoolers. Sometimes moms go a little stir crazy and need to get out. That's not about unschooling or homeschooling, its about human nature. Unschooling doesn't make someone automatically a perfect parent ;) We have our bad days and lapses of judgement, too.
There will likely be other times when your son is the more outgoing of playmates. If his feelings tend to be easily hurt, it can help to talk about differences - we did that with Ray when he was little and soooooo social. He didn't understand why other people didn't want to play and socialize with him - and it wasn't about him, it was about personality. He wasn't sure he Believed that some people were more private and liked to be alone, but he was willing to accept that as a possiblility anyway.
>>> In my opinion, it is good not to push our opinion on our kids but it is also ok to explain sometimes what could be a nice thing to do.**************
If your son could understand that at 3, then be advised that he was a bit precocious - other 3yos won't have much ability to see things from others' perspectives, which is why many 3yos still aren't very interestied in other young children, or if they are have very poor social skills! Its Normal for three year olds to have poor social skills and need a loooooot of adult intervention when playing with other children.
---Meredith
Ulrike Haupt
Oh my dear
It has been only a few days that I found a system; that explains what is happening with
our experiences of sharing or not and other's expectations around this.
1) We are who we are and certain things within and without define this. Independent
of age. For my youngest granddaughter this means that she IS a boowa and kwala player (at
this time). When she comes to our place she does not so to meet me or anyone else but to
play boowa and kwala. And anything not complying with this expectation is just not
acceptable for her. It also means that there is no way for her to 'share' playing. Basta,
until she is played out for the day and someone else can get a chance.
All other 'players' are not real for her in that time frame. They just don't count.
So you got guests and they had expectations (of which you were not aware) of being the
big player - very personal and nothing to do with being guests at your place of course. As
I see it we, as separate entities have no influence or control, bless our souls.
2) the rules how things should play out are very very unclear and very very fuzzy
between very young players. Fair is a foreign concept and fair is not what we want it to
be even when we are 50 years old old or older. Expectations, especially unvoiced
expectations are the key to suffering major pain. Remember that getting your own child to
play 'fair' with his/her siblings is difficult. To induce a 'stranger' to the rules of
your home is near impossible I would think.
3) What are your expectations when you ask a mother with her children to visit?
(This is not to keep you from doing do, just to become clear on realities :-) ) She should
have control over her children knowing mine and thine and who is to be in control of
thine? Well you go to a meet with your chuld and they 'take over' how do you lead your
child from 'I am the conqueror' to accepting second best? I really don't want to push a
noodle here. Please. I never went to any other place with my child to let it feel the
disempowerment of not being in control of the things that were available. When you ask
others with children over - I think it would be absolutely respectful of the other
children to make available whatever it is that you (and your child) feel happy with that
the others can control/handle/have dominion over while they are there and keep EVERYTHING
else out of their reach. I don't let others into MY kitchen! I don't let others into my
kitchen, even to do the dishes after a big meal. So why let other kids into the toys of
your children. When I allow others to visit me I have certain boundaries. We talk about X,
we share Y, we do Z but they don't take over my realm. And they don't take over my
children's (grandchildren's) realm. When they try I tell them NO but thank you no and go
home.
4) I can share and I share frequently. But I also experience a lot of 'being taken
for a ride' when I don't listen to my inner 'keep away from that' voice. I want my
children and grandchildren to be able to listen and act on this inner voice before it
costs them as much as is has cost me to date. -There are times when my inner voice says,
"Go ahead, give and share." And it is ok. But the other times are still smarting, even
years later.
I don't want you to hear that I am saying that you are wrong in any way in inviting people
over. Invite them any way. Just know that not all visitors have your and your children's
best interest at heart when they come. Some really want to further their own interest.
Which is ok, for them, but not necessarily for you and yours. If a mother wants to connect
with you and your child because she feels that this is what her child needs and she is so
happy to be with you and wants to share with your interest, then by all means, try a
visit, I would say.
I think not havingt a bad experience and being bored is less detrimental than having a bad
experience just for wanting to get out of bored. But I could be wrong. Maybe we need a
couple of 'bad' experiences' to know what we don't want before we can stop having bad
experiences. I really can't say.
Blissings
Ulrike Haupt
From Namibia - somewhere in Africa
PS and the system I wanted to talk about was honor - where we stand for who we are against
our fears. - A child demanding to be allowed to play with their own toy - with another or
not - is totally in their right, don't you agree? - For my granddaughter Boowa and Kwala
on MY laptop is what she considers to be HER right. I have no say there any more :-) She
will defend this right with everything she has. Taking this from her takes away her
'honor'. It breaks my heart, too. (playing B&K is her single most potent reason for being
who she is at this time. It gives her total control over a certain part in her world -
empowerment! Ability, capability. Standing up for this empowerment is absolute priority
for her now.) Maybe in a year or two she will come and visit me for the stories we read
out of books or the games we play. Then the honor she will stand up for will be the honor
to be a good game player in the face of the adverse other players or the identities she
takes on from the characters of the stories for their hero's quests in the face of the
adversities of the other characters.
What I wanted to say is that when we can allow our children/grandchildren to be the hero
in their situation and allow them to stand up for their own personal truth of the moment
they become strong enough to handle all these situations that life and we throw at them
_____
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of t_guyonvarch
Sent: 30 August 2010 16:06 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Sociability
My son, now 4.5, has always been happy to share his things from early age, even though I
never asked him to at the time, but because both me and my husband always play with him so
he sees that it's more fun to play with someone as stories can be more interestingly made
up. At about the age of 3 he shows an interest to see other children (he kept asking to
see this or that child etc). So I did try to meet up more often with other mum with
similar aged kids.
Last year I was new to homeschooling and didn't know about unschooling. I met someone who
I think is doing unschooling. Her son is about the same age as my son, so we thought we'd
try to meet up to see if they get on.
One day I invited this family and another family also with kids of similar age as my son.
At some point, I was the only adult to be with the kids as the other mums were chatting in
the kitchen. At that moment, one of the boys was playing with my son's train set that my
son was also so much into at that stage. My son didn't mind that he played with his
trains, but he wanted to join in the play as he always does it with me and my husband. But
this kid from the unschooling mum was shouting at my son "get off, get off it". My son was
very sad because he really wanted to play together, and also from my point of view that
was the main reason of inviting these kids to our place. I tried to give my son another
train to play with and explained that he wants to play on his own for now (as I remember
his mum once told me that she doesn't ask her son to share if he deosn't want to) but my
son said with lots of tears that he wants to play with this kid. I then asked this kid gen
tly if my son could join his play, he said no, leave me alone. I then asked again, could
he take turn/share as this is my son's toys? He said very forcefully, I hate you, I don't
want to play here anymore. That broke my heart. It took me a very long time, probably four
months or more later, to have enough courage to meet up with this family again.
The next time we met up, similar thing happened again, so I decided not to meet up with
this family again (though after about six months later I decided to try again but this
time not inviting them to my house but we met up outdoor). In between this two occasions,
we also met another family, not unschooling family though, who's got a daughter who also
did the same thing. Sometime around this, I notice that now my son often doesn't want to
share (especially when he's tired) and worse, he also shouted to express this, copying
these two other kids. I felt so angry to myself for letting this to happen. It took a long
time to undo the damage. Nowadays my son is happy to share again (after a long period of
not meeting these two families), though there are still occasions when he doesn't want to,
albeit rarely.
I don't know what you all will think of this story, I just want to tell you another view
point. It is certainly not nice being at the receiving end of the result of unschooling
approach. I now understand better about unschooling, though may not be all of it yet, so I
understand this mum's stand and appreciate that. However, until her son learn to share, I
will not meet up with her anymore, or only very rarely and also outdoor so it's easier to
get my son away from this kid. It's also true that other kids can influence my kid's
behaviour in a not so nice way, even though the family is also doing unschooling.
In my opinion, it is good not to push our opinion on our kids but it is also ok to explain
sometimes what could be a nice thing to do. If they decided not to do it, then so be it.
In the case of this kid, he may never see the consequence of his action as he would never
know why we never invite him to our place anymore. An opportunity of building friendship
is lost, though his mum said once that he now seems to look for relationship with other
kids.
By the way, we have never been invited to their place, and from what I gather, they also
rarely invite others, so this kid doesn't have a lot of opportunity to learn that it could
be nice to share his things, other than with his younger sibling. Not that I feel the need
to go to their place (though my son used to ask to go to their place), but when sharing is
only one way, it gets tiring after a while.
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5410
(20100830) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
http://www.eset.com
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(20100830) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
http://www.eset.com
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5410
(20100830) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
http://www.eset.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It has been only a few days that I found a system; that explains what is happening with
our experiences of sharing or not and other's expectations around this.
1) We are who we are and certain things within and without define this. Independent
of age. For my youngest granddaughter this means that she IS a boowa and kwala player (at
this time). When she comes to our place she does not so to meet me or anyone else but to
play boowa and kwala. And anything not complying with this expectation is just not
acceptable for her. It also means that there is no way for her to 'share' playing. Basta,
until she is played out for the day and someone else can get a chance.
All other 'players' are not real for her in that time frame. They just don't count.
So you got guests and they had expectations (of which you were not aware) of being the
big player - very personal and nothing to do with being guests at your place of course. As
I see it we, as separate entities have no influence or control, bless our souls.
2) the rules how things should play out are very very unclear and very very fuzzy
between very young players. Fair is a foreign concept and fair is not what we want it to
be even when we are 50 years old old or older. Expectations, especially unvoiced
expectations are the key to suffering major pain. Remember that getting your own child to
play 'fair' with his/her siblings is difficult. To induce a 'stranger' to the rules of
your home is near impossible I would think.
3) What are your expectations when you ask a mother with her children to visit?
(This is not to keep you from doing do, just to become clear on realities :-) ) She should
have control over her children knowing mine and thine and who is to be in control of
thine? Well you go to a meet with your chuld and they 'take over' how do you lead your
child from 'I am the conqueror' to accepting second best? I really don't want to push a
noodle here. Please. I never went to any other place with my child to let it feel the
disempowerment of not being in control of the things that were available. When you ask
others with children over - I think it would be absolutely respectful of the other
children to make available whatever it is that you (and your child) feel happy with that
the others can control/handle/have dominion over while they are there and keep EVERYTHING
else out of their reach. I don't let others into MY kitchen! I don't let others into my
kitchen, even to do the dishes after a big meal. So why let other kids into the toys of
your children. When I allow others to visit me I have certain boundaries. We talk about X,
we share Y, we do Z but they don't take over my realm. And they don't take over my
children's (grandchildren's) realm. When they try I tell them NO but thank you no and go
home.
4) I can share and I share frequently. But I also experience a lot of 'being taken
for a ride' when I don't listen to my inner 'keep away from that' voice. I want my
children and grandchildren to be able to listen and act on this inner voice before it
costs them as much as is has cost me to date. -There are times when my inner voice says,
"Go ahead, give and share." And it is ok. But the other times are still smarting, even
years later.
I don't want you to hear that I am saying that you are wrong in any way in inviting people
over. Invite them any way. Just know that not all visitors have your and your children's
best interest at heart when they come. Some really want to further their own interest.
Which is ok, for them, but not necessarily for you and yours. If a mother wants to connect
with you and your child because she feels that this is what her child needs and she is so
happy to be with you and wants to share with your interest, then by all means, try a
visit, I would say.
I think not havingt a bad experience and being bored is less detrimental than having a bad
experience just for wanting to get out of bored. But I could be wrong. Maybe we need a
couple of 'bad' experiences' to know what we don't want before we can stop having bad
experiences. I really can't say.
Blissings
Ulrike Haupt
From Namibia - somewhere in Africa
PS and the system I wanted to talk about was honor - where we stand for who we are against
our fears. - A child demanding to be allowed to play with their own toy - with another or
not - is totally in their right, don't you agree? - For my granddaughter Boowa and Kwala
on MY laptop is what she considers to be HER right. I have no say there any more :-) She
will defend this right with everything she has. Taking this from her takes away her
'honor'. It breaks my heart, too. (playing B&K is her single most potent reason for being
who she is at this time. It gives her total control over a certain part in her world -
empowerment! Ability, capability. Standing up for this empowerment is absolute priority
for her now.) Maybe in a year or two she will come and visit me for the stories we read
out of books or the games we play. Then the honor she will stand up for will be the honor
to be a good game player in the face of the adverse other players or the identities she
takes on from the characters of the stories for their hero's quests in the face of the
adversities of the other characters.
What I wanted to say is that when we can allow our children/grandchildren to be the hero
in their situation and allow them to stand up for their own personal truth of the moment
they become strong enough to handle all these situations that life and we throw at them
_____
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of t_guyonvarch
Sent: 30 August 2010 16:06 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Sociability
My son, now 4.5, has always been happy to share his things from early age, even though I
never asked him to at the time, but because both me and my husband always play with him so
he sees that it's more fun to play with someone as stories can be more interestingly made
up. At about the age of 3 he shows an interest to see other children (he kept asking to
see this or that child etc). So I did try to meet up more often with other mum with
similar aged kids.
Last year I was new to homeschooling and didn't know about unschooling. I met someone who
I think is doing unschooling. Her son is about the same age as my son, so we thought we'd
try to meet up to see if they get on.
One day I invited this family and another family also with kids of similar age as my son.
At some point, I was the only adult to be with the kids as the other mums were chatting in
the kitchen. At that moment, one of the boys was playing with my son's train set that my
son was also so much into at that stage. My son didn't mind that he played with his
trains, but he wanted to join in the play as he always does it with me and my husband. But
this kid from the unschooling mum was shouting at my son "get off, get off it". My son was
very sad because he really wanted to play together, and also from my point of view that
was the main reason of inviting these kids to our place. I tried to give my son another
train to play with and explained that he wants to play on his own for now (as I remember
his mum once told me that she doesn't ask her son to share if he deosn't want to) but my
son said with lots of tears that he wants to play with this kid. I then asked this kid gen
tly if my son could join his play, he said no, leave me alone. I then asked again, could
he take turn/share as this is my son's toys? He said very forcefully, I hate you, I don't
want to play here anymore. That broke my heart. It took me a very long time, probably four
months or more later, to have enough courage to meet up with this family again.
The next time we met up, similar thing happened again, so I decided not to meet up with
this family again (though after about six months later I decided to try again but this
time not inviting them to my house but we met up outdoor). In between this two occasions,
we also met another family, not unschooling family though, who's got a daughter who also
did the same thing. Sometime around this, I notice that now my son often doesn't want to
share (especially when he's tired) and worse, he also shouted to express this, copying
these two other kids. I felt so angry to myself for letting this to happen. It took a long
time to undo the damage. Nowadays my son is happy to share again (after a long period of
not meeting these two families), though there are still occasions when he doesn't want to,
albeit rarely.
I don't know what you all will think of this story, I just want to tell you another view
point. It is certainly not nice being at the receiving end of the result of unschooling
approach. I now understand better about unschooling, though may not be all of it yet, so I
understand this mum's stand and appreciate that. However, until her son learn to share, I
will not meet up with her anymore, or only very rarely and also outdoor so it's easier to
get my son away from this kid. It's also true that other kids can influence my kid's
behaviour in a not so nice way, even though the family is also doing unschooling.
In my opinion, it is good not to push our opinion on our kids but it is also ok to explain
sometimes what could be a nice thing to do. If they decided not to do it, then so be it.
In the case of this kid, he may never see the consequence of his action as he would never
know why we never invite him to our place anymore. An opportunity of building friendship
is lost, though his mum said once that he now seems to look for relationship with other
kids.
By the way, we have never been invited to their place, and from what I gather, they also
rarely invite others, so this kid doesn't have a lot of opportunity to learn that it could
be nice to share his things, other than with his younger sibling. Not that I feel the need
to go to their place (though my son used to ask to go to their place), but when sharing is
only one way, it gets tiring after a while.
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5410
(20100830) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
http://www.eset.com
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5410
(20100830) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
http://www.eset.com
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5410
(20100830) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
http://www.eset.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Oh, for heaven's sake! They are 4! They are not traumatized by seeing another 4-year-old with less-than-perfect (and perfectly age-appropriate) manners.
If you never see other families who don't have perfect children or parents, you will not be seeing very many families.
Lighten up and let some of this sort itself out. Your son went through -- and may well go through again -- a period of not wanting to share. Same as the other kid.
And then they will go through other developmentally appropriate stages. Not all of it is pretty. And none of what you have described has anything to do with unschooling.
Nance
If you never see other families who don't have perfect children or parents, you will not be seeing very many families.
Lighten up and let some of this sort itself out. Your son went through -- and may well go through again -- a period of not wanting to share. Same as the other kid.
And then they will go through other developmentally appropriate stages. Not all of it is pretty. And none of what you have described has anything to do with unschooling.
Nance
--- In [email protected], "t_guyonvarch" <titiskarweni@...> wrote:
>
> My son, now 4.5, has always been happy to share his things from early age, even though I never asked him to at the time, but because both me and my husband always play with him so he sees that it's more fun to play with someone as stories can be more interestingly made up. At about the age of 3 he shows an interest to see other children (he kept asking to see this or that child etc). So I did try to meet up more often with other mum with similar aged kids.
>
> Last year I was new to homeschooling and didn't know about unschooling. I met someone who I think is doing unschooling. Her son is about the same age as my son, so we thought we'd try to meet up to see if they get on.
>
> One day I invited this family and another family also with kids of similar age as my son. At some point, I was the only adult to be with the kids as the other mums were chatting in the kitchen. At that moment, one of the boys was playing with my son's train set that my son was also so much into at that stage. My son didn't mind that he played with his trains, but he wanted to join in the play as he always does it with me and my husband. But this kid from the unschooling mum was shouting at my son "get off, get off it". My son was very sad because he really wanted to play together, and also from my point of view that was the main reason of inviting these kids to our place. I tried to give my son another train to play with and explained that he wants to play on his own for now (as I remember his mum once told me that she doesn't ask her son to share if he deosn't want to) but my son said with lots of tears that he wants to play with this kid. I then asked this kid gently if my son could join his play, he said no, leave me alone. I then asked again, could he take turn/share as this is my son's toys? He said very forcefully, I hate you, I don't want to play here anymore. That broke my heart. It took me a very long time, probably four months or more later, to have enough courage to meet up with this family again.
>
> The next time we met up, similar thing happened again, so I decided not to meet up with this family again (though after about six months later I decided to try again but this time not inviting them to my house but we met up outdoor). In between this two occasions, we also met another family, not unschooling family though, who's got a daughter who also did the same thing. Sometime around this, I notice that now my son often doesn't want to share (especially when he's tired) and worse, he also shouted to express this, copying these two other kids. I felt so angry to myself for letting this to happen. It took a long time to undo the damage. Nowadays my son is happy to share again (after a long period of not meeting these two families), though there are still occasions when he doesn't want to, albeit rarely.
>
> I don't know what you all will think of this story, I just want to tell you another view point. It is certainly not nice being at the receiving end of the result of unschooling approach. I now understand better about unschooling, though may not be all of it yet, so I understand this mum's stand and appreciate that. However, until her son learn to share, I will not meet up with her anymore, or only very rarely and also outdoor so it's easier to get my son away from this kid. It's also true that other kids can influence my kid's behaviour in a not so nice way, even though the family is also doing unschooling.
>
> In my opinion, it is good not to push our opinion on our kids but it is also ok to explain sometimes what could be a nice thing to do. If they decided not to do it, then so be it. In the case of this kid, he may never see the consequence of his action as he would never know why we never invite him to our place anymore. An opportunity of building friendship is lost, though his mum said once that he now seems to look for relationship with other kids.
>
> By the way, we have never been invited to their place, and from what I gather, they also rarely invite others, so this kid doesn't have a lot of opportunity to learn that it could be nice to share his things, other than with his younger sibling. Not that I feel the need to go to their place (though my son used to ask to go to their place), but when sharing is only one way, it gets tiring after a while.
>
Tamara
Hi there,
What I hear you saying is that you are finding it hard to reconcile your unschooling principles with your social needs. It sounds like you support not forcing sharing but you would like to find a better social experience for your son. And, by better I mean one that meets his needs for interaction. If your son is passionate about meeting up with this friend despite his desire to play alone then by all means facilitate the meet ups.
Explaining different personalities is good advice. But, if you've tried this a few times and it's not fun for you or your son then why keep putting yourself through it?
From the way you describe this mom it sounds like she or your son may not be a good fit - ar least right now. If she is regularly off in the kitchen leaving you to supervise the kids then it doesn't sound like a great day for you. And, if your son wants to play then maybe you need to find playmates - older, younger, same age - that want to play. If that is his need why not try to meet that need even while you explain that you can't in that exact moment.
My experience has been that we have few families in our lives none of which are unschooled. We live in a large city centre where most mothers return to work after one year. Since we socialise with mainstream families we do see some differences in the way we do things but we have been lucky enough to find friendly families who seem to live and let live. My daughter has one friend in particular that she is quite attached to. I like the girl but I'm not thrilled with the way they interact. The friend likes to 'control' my daughter who often likes to play the role of follower until she doesn't and then there is conflict which can be quite violent with the friend who is a biter and goes for the eyes. Knowing this I stay close so I can intervene before conflict starts. My daughter has expressed great joy when we see this friend so I have faciliated their friendship. Though she now appears to be outgrowing the friend. My point is that while there may be conflict there may be something you son wants / needs to work out or explore socially. If not find a relationship that he does want to explore.
It can take a long time to find that holy grail of kids who want to connect and moms who do too. I liken it to a kind of dating.
Good luck finding a good social fit for you and your son,
All best,
Tamara
mom to Ella (3 yrs)
What I hear you saying is that you are finding it hard to reconcile your unschooling principles with your social needs. It sounds like you support not forcing sharing but you would like to find a better social experience for your son. And, by better I mean one that meets his needs for interaction. If your son is passionate about meeting up with this friend despite his desire to play alone then by all means facilitate the meet ups.
Explaining different personalities is good advice. But, if you've tried this a few times and it's not fun for you or your son then why keep putting yourself through it?
From the way you describe this mom it sounds like she or your son may not be a good fit - ar least right now. If she is regularly off in the kitchen leaving you to supervise the kids then it doesn't sound like a great day for you. And, if your son wants to play then maybe you need to find playmates - older, younger, same age - that want to play. If that is his need why not try to meet that need even while you explain that you can't in that exact moment.
My experience has been that we have few families in our lives none of which are unschooled. We live in a large city centre where most mothers return to work after one year. Since we socialise with mainstream families we do see some differences in the way we do things but we have been lucky enough to find friendly families who seem to live and let live. My daughter has one friend in particular that she is quite attached to. I like the girl but I'm not thrilled with the way they interact. The friend likes to 'control' my daughter who often likes to play the role of follower until she doesn't and then there is conflict which can be quite violent with the friend who is a biter and goes for the eyes. Knowing this I stay close so I can intervene before conflict starts. My daughter has expressed great joy when we see this friend so I have faciliated their friendship. Though she now appears to be outgrowing the friend. My point is that while there may be conflict there may be something you son wants / needs to work out or explore socially. If not find a relationship that he does want to explore.
It can take a long time to find that holy grail of kids who want to connect and moms who do too. I liken it to a kind of dating.
Good luck finding a good social fit for you and your son,
All best,
Tamara
mom to Ella (3 yrs)
--- In [email protected], "t_guyonvarch" <titiskarweni@...> wrote:
>
> My son, now 4.5, has always been happy to share his things from early age, even though I never asked him to at the time, but because both me and my husband always play with him so he sees that it's more fun to play with someone as stories can be more interestingly made up. At about the age of 3 he shows an interest to see other children (he kept asking to see this or that child etc). So I did try to meet up more often with other mum with similar aged kids.
>
> Last year I was new to homeschooling and didn't know about unschooling. I met someone who I think is doing unschooling. Her son is about the same age as my son, so we thought we'd try to meet up to see if they get on.
>
> One day I invited this family and another family also with kids of similar age as my son. At some point, I was the only adult to be with the kids as the other mums were chatting in the kitchen. At that moment, one of the boys was playing with my son's train set that my son was also so much into at that stage. My son didn't mind that he played with his trains, but he wanted to join in the play as he always does it with me and my husband. But this kid from the unschooling mum was shouting at my son "get off, get off it". My son was very sad because he really wanted to play together, and also from my point of view that was the main reason of inviting these kids to our place. I tried to give my son another train to play with and explained that he wants to play on his own for now (as I remember his mum once told me that she doesn't ask her son to share if he deosn't want to) but my son said with lots of tears that he wants to play with this kid. I then asked this kid gently if my son could join his play, he said no, leave me alone. I then asked again, could he take turn/share as this is my son's toys? He said very forcefully, I hate you, I don't want to play here anymore. That broke my heart. It took me a very long time, probably four months or more later, to have enough courage to meet up with this family again.
>
> The next time we met up, similar thing happened again, so I decided not to meet up with this family again (though after about six months later I decided to try again but this time not inviting them to my house but we met up outdoor). In between this two occasions, we also met another family, not unschooling family though, who's got a daughter who also did the same thing. Sometime around this, I notice that now my son often doesn't want to share (especially when he's tired) and worse, he also shouted to express this, copying these two other kids. I felt so angry to myself for letting this to happen. It took a long time to undo the damage. Nowadays my son is happy to share again (after a long period of not meeting these two families), though there are still occasions when he doesn't want to, albeit rarely.
>
> I don't know what you all will think of this story, I just want to tell you another view point. It is certainly not nice being at the receiving end of the result of unschooling approach. I now understand better about unschooling, though may not be all of it yet, so I understand this mum's stand and appreciate that. However, until her son learn to share, I will not meet up with her anymore, or only very rarely and also outdoor so it's easier to get my son away from this kid. It's also true that other kids can influence my kid's behaviour in a not so nice way, even though the family is also doing unschooling.
>
> In my opinion, it is good not to push our opinion on our kids but it is also ok to explain sometimes what could be a nice thing to do. If they decided not to do it, then so be it. In the case of this kid, he may never see the consequence of his action as he would never know why we never invite him to our place anymore. An opportunity of building friendship is lost, though his mum said once that he now seems to look for relationship with other kids.
>
> By the way, we have never been invited to their place, and from what I gather, they also rarely invite others, so this kid doesn't have a lot of opportunity to learn that it could be nice to share his things, other than with his younger sibling. Not that I feel the need to go to their place (though my son used to ask to go to their place), but when sharing is only one way, it gets tiring after a while.
>
t_guyonvarch
Hi Tamara,
You're right and that's what I've been doing recently. I have since met few other families that I can get on much better, and their kids are much older than my son and they also get on quite well. My son hasn't asked to see that kid for a long time now, don't think he forgot him, but I think he's found other kids that he can play with better so he doesn't feel the need to see the previous one.
I'm still on the look out for other dates for my son to broaden his experience, but I'm taking it slowly and carefully now. Especially as it seems like he doesn't need many friends, just a few nice ones seem to be better for him.
Best wishes
You're right and that's what I've been doing recently. I have since met few other families that I can get on much better, and their kids are much older than my son and they also get on quite well. My son hasn't asked to see that kid for a long time now, don't think he forgot him, but I think he's found other kids that he can play with better so he doesn't feel the need to see the previous one.
I'm still on the look out for other dates for my son to broaden his experience, but I'm taking it slowly and carefully now. Especially as it seems like he doesn't need many friends, just a few nice ones seem to be better for him.
Best wishes