ranking importance
Ren Allen
"Once the shriek is out she takes a deep breath and
seems to feel much better. Just being able to complain about
changing or
leaving and say "no" a few times allows her to get to agreement
after a
little while. Maybe that other boy's screaming is part of his
process???"
I would like to remind everyone, that the original poster was
advocating video game limits for her child AND stating that he would
throw a tantrum when she had to make him stop playing to attend a
playdate. I don't think that is on the same level as difficulty in
transitioning, though I'm quite sure that is part of the child's
challenge.
This IS a list for challenging ourselves as parents, in relation to
unschooling philosophies. Gentle and for newbies yes, advocating
arbitrary limits, no. So while there will be a wide variety of
opinions and beliefs here, and all are going to have their own way
of doing things, the PURPOSE of this list is to hopefully show that
there are other options to traditional parenting practices like
limiting video games.
Everyone is where they are. No one here is trying to make anyone be
or do anything they aren't comfortable with. But if you post about
things in opposition to the unschooling philosophy of trust, it WILL
get a strong response and a lot of intense discussion.
I for one have thoroughly enjoyed the recent discussions...I think
it's been conducted respectfully and with a lot of good questions
and examples. It came to my attention today that some folks might be
seeing this as a petty arguement, but hey, this list is for
discussion!!
Carry on......:)
Ren
seems to feel much better. Just being able to complain about
changing or
leaving and say "no" a few times allows her to get to agreement
after a
little while. Maybe that other boy's screaming is part of his
process???"
I would like to remind everyone, that the original poster was
advocating video game limits for her child AND stating that he would
throw a tantrum when she had to make him stop playing to attend a
playdate. I don't think that is on the same level as difficulty in
transitioning, though I'm quite sure that is part of the child's
challenge.
This IS a list for challenging ourselves as parents, in relation to
unschooling philosophies. Gentle and for newbies yes, advocating
arbitrary limits, no. So while there will be a wide variety of
opinions and beliefs here, and all are going to have their own way
of doing things, the PURPOSE of this list is to hopefully show that
there are other options to traditional parenting practices like
limiting video games.
Everyone is where they are. No one here is trying to make anyone be
or do anything they aren't comfortable with. But if you post about
things in opposition to the unschooling philosophy of trust, it WILL
get a strong response and a lot of intense discussion.
I for one have thoroughly enjoyed the recent discussions...I think
it's been conducted respectfully and with a lot of good questions
and examples. It came to my attention today that some folks might be
seeing this as a petty arguement, but hey, this list is for
discussion!!
Carry on......:)
Ren
Jenny Altenbach
Ren Allen wrote:
got the impression that she *made* him stop playing to attend a
playdate. I thought she was giving an example of her son's difficulty
in disengaging by describing his reaction when she *asked* him to stop
playing because it was time for a playdate that he had requested. In
fact, the situation she described occurred before she was setting any
limits (which she is now doing for health reasons, not for
playdate-breaking reasons, as far as I can tell). The original
conversation is quoted below:
<<<<< Did I read in another post that you tried no limits on screens in
attempts to disengage him to go to an activity that he had asked me
to set up for him (a playdate, a homeschool group activity)>>>>>>>
Then in a later post she clarified further:
<<<<<<> If you were forcing him, kicking and screaming, to
kicking and screaming to do anything. You'll notice I said that he
was screaming when I "asked him to disengage". Asking someone
politely is hardly the same as dragging them kicking and screaming. >>>>>>
myself I did not get the impression that the original poster was
*making* her child stop playing video games to attend a play date. I
*did* read with interest her reasons for limiting screen time and
everyone's responses to her concerns about her child's health. Even
more valuable to me was the spin-off discussion about putting one
child's needs/feelings above another's. I recently put my child's
feelings above those of my 93 year old grandmother who "could die any
day" as my mother put it as she tried to guilt me about my choice ( I
responded that so could my son--she didn't appreciate that very much.).
These discussions are so important to me in helping me parent my children.
Thanks everyone!
Jenny
> I would like to remind everyone, that the original poster wasI guess I didn't get the same message from the original poster. I never
> advocating video game limits for her child AND stating that he would
> throw a tantrum when she had to make him stop playing to attend a
> playdate. I don't think that is on the same level as difficulty in
> transitioning, though I'm quite sure that is part of the child's
> challenge.
got the impression that she *made* him stop playing to attend a
playdate. I thought she was giving an example of her son's difficulty
in disengaging by describing his reaction when she *asked* him to stop
playing because it was time for a playdate that he had requested. In
fact, the situation she described occurred before she was setting any
limits (which she is now doing for health reasons, not for
playdate-breaking reasons, as far as I can tell). The original
conversation is quoted below:
<<<<< Did I read in another post that you tried no limits on screens in
> the past? If so, for how long?2 years
> And during that time did heWell, any attempt at any other activity was met with tantrums. Even
> honestly engage with a screen non-stop from the time he woke up
> until the time he went to sleep again?
attempts to disengage him to go to an activity that he had asked me
to set up for him (a playdate, a homeschool group activity)>>>>>>>
Then in a later post she clarified further:
<<<<<<> If you were forcing him, kicking and screaming, to
> attend play dates when he would rather play videoWell, let's please not put words in my mouth. I didn't force him
> games, that doesn't sound like "unlimited".
kicking and screaming to do anything. You'll notice I said that he
was screaming when I "asked him to disengage". Asking someone
politely is hardly the same as dragging them kicking and screaming. >>>>>>
>I agree completely. I just wanted to state that as a relative newbie
> This IS a list for challenging ourselves as parents, in relation to
> unschooling philosophies. Gentle and for newbies yes, advocating
> arbitrary limits, no. So while there will be a wide variety of
> opinions and beliefs here, and all are going to have their own way
> of doing things, the PURPOSE of this list is to hopefully show that
> there are other options to traditional parenting practices like
> limiting video games.
> Everyone is where they are. No one here is trying to make anyone be
> or do anything they aren't comfortable with. But if you post about
> things in opposition to the unschooling philosophy of trust, it WILL
> get a strong response and a lot of intense discussion.
myself I did not get the impression that the original poster was
*making* her child stop playing video games to attend a play date. I
*did* read with interest her reasons for limiting screen time and
everyone's responses to her concerns about her child's health. Even
more valuable to me was the spin-off discussion about putting one
child's needs/feelings above another's. I recently put my child's
feelings above those of my 93 year old grandmother who "could die any
day" as my mother put it as she tried to guilt me about my choice ( I
responded that so could my son--she didn't appreciate that very much.).
These discussions are so important to me in helping me parent my children.
Thanks everyone!
Jenny
pam sorooshian
On Dec 21, 2004, at 8:31 AM, Ren Allen wrote:
Maria posted about her 3 1/2 yo watching many many straight hours of
videos and was simply wondering what we all thought about it - she
didn't advocate anything, just questioned and she was NOT the person
who said her child had tantrums and meltdowns over having to stop. Here
was her post - her only post:
<<<My son aged 3 years 2 months has been watching movies on video
endlessly. Today he watched about 5 movies, from approximately 11
in the morning to 7 in the evening, stopping only for a short period
to get in the van to go drop off his sisters somewhere. I have
allowed him to watch all he wants, but to be honest I hate the fact
that he watches so much. So I am wondering, is this normal? Should
I be setting limits? Is this a phase he is going through? Should I
just let him watch all he wants until he eventually gets it out of
his system? Will he ever get it out of his system?
Any advice would be appreciated.
TIA
Maria >>>>>>
In the ensuing discussion, Robin Clevenger posted about the limits her
family DOES set and explained why (myopia concerns) and then posted
that one of her children has severe problems with disengaging. She
said:
<<Or, just possibly, it's a harder time self-regulating. I don't mean
enjoying an activity "more", I mean being unable to break away from a
screen to do things you actually want to do, like, say eat dinner,
even when you're hungry. Or go out with your friends when they're
standing there asking you to. I think it's great that your kids don't
have this issue. One of mine does. We didn't limit his screen time
for 2 years. We had constant battles when we asked him to disengage
for anything, even things he asked us to set up like a playdate, he'd
have a screaming fit when it was time to go. Personally, I'm not
willing for our lives to be like that. >>
-pam
> I would like to remind everyone, that the original poster wasI think two different posters are being confused with each other.
> advocating video game limits for her child AND stating that he would
> throw a tantrum when she had to make him stop playing to attend a
> playdate. I don't think that is on the same level as difficulty in
> transitioning, though I'm quite sure that is part of the child's
> challenge.
Maria posted about her 3 1/2 yo watching many many straight hours of
videos and was simply wondering what we all thought about it - she
didn't advocate anything, just questioned and she was NOT the person
who said her child had tantrums and meltdowns over having to stop. Here
was her post - her only post:
<<<My son aged 3 years 2 months has been watching movies on video
endlessly. Today he watched about 5 movies, from approximately 11
in the morning to 7 in the evening, stopping only for a short period
to get in the van to go drop off his sisters somewhere. I have
allowed him to watch all he wants, but to be honest I hate the fact
that he watches so much. So I am wondering, is this normal? Should
I be setting limits? Is this a phase he is going through? Should I
just let him watch all he wants until he eventually gets it out of
his system? Will he ever get it out of his system?
Any advice would be appreciated.
TIA
Maria >>>>>>
In the ensuing discussion, Robin Clevenger posted about the limits her
family DOES set and explained why (myopia concerns) and then posted
that one of her children has severe problems with disengaging. She
said:
<<Or, just possibly, it's a harder time self-regulating. I don't mean
enjoying an activity "more", I mean being unable to break away from a
screen to do things you actually want to do, like, say eat dinner,
even when you're hungry. Or go out with your friends when they're
standing there asking you to. I think it's great that your kids don't
have this issue. One of mine does. We didn't limit his screen time
for 2 years. We had constant battles when we asked him to disengage
for anything, even things he asked us to set up like a playdate, he'd
have a screaming fit when it was time to go. Personally, I'm not
willing for our lives to be like that. >>
-pam
Ren Allen
"I think two different posters are being confused with each other.'
Thank you for clarifying Pam. It was the "I'm not willing for my
family to be like that" and the ensuing discussion on how time
limits work that paint a bigger picture for me.
If nothing else comes of this discussion, I'm hoping newer folks can
at least see there are much better options to time limits. Time
limits are arbitrary, solving individual problems and family
challenges can be done in a much more creative manner.
So maybe there was no child being stopped from playing a video game
when a tantrum was thrown...but when someone says they aren't
willing for that and says they will continue with time limits, one
wonders.
Ren
Thank you for clarifying Pam. It was the "I'm not willing for my
family to be like that" and the ensuing discussion on how time
limits work that paint a bigger picture for me.
If nothing else comes of this discussion, I'm hoping newer folks can
at least see there are much better options to time limits. Time
limits are arbitrary, solving individual problems and family
challenges can be done in a much more creative manner.
So maybe there was no child being stopped from playing a video game
when a tantrum was thrown...but when someone says they aren't
willing for that and says they will continue with time limits, one
wonders.
Ren
Nichole Fausey-Khosraviani
This quote was posted by a member of my Plano, Texas group just as part of her signature, but I think it speaks so beautifully to unschooling and true freedom and goes well with this discussion. It would probably go well in almost any unschooling discussion.
"Love withers under constraint' its very essence is liberty: it is compatible neither with obedience, jealousy, nor fear; it is there most pure, perfect, and unlimited, where its votaries live in confidence,equality, and unreserve..." - Mary Shelley
Nichole
"Love withers under constraint' its very essence is liberty: it is compatible neither with obedience, jealousy, nor fear; it is there most pure, perfect, and unlimited, where its votaries live in confidence,equality, and unreserve..." - Mary Shelley
Nichole
----- Original Message -----
From: Ren Allen
So maybe there was no child being stopped from playing a video game
when a tantrum was thrown...but when someone says they aren't
willing for that and says they will continue with time limits, one
wonders.
Ren
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pam sorooshian
On Dec 23, 2004, at 8:08 AM, Nichole Fausey-Khosraviani wrote:
the Unschooling.info message boards. She may never have heard of
unschooling <g>, but she sure nailed the essence of it!
-pam
> "Love withers under constraint' its very essence is liberty: it isYes - thank you, Nichole!! I'll put that in the "quotations" section of
> compatible neither with obedience, jealousy, nor fear; it is there
> most pure, perfect, and unlimited, where its votaries live in
> confidence,equality, and unreserve..." - Mary Shelley
the Unschooling.info message boards. She may never have heard of
unschooling <g>, but she sure nailed the essence of it!
-pam
Ren Allen
"> "Love withers under constraint' its very essence is liberty: it is
Ren
> compatible neither with obedience, jealousy, nor fear; it is thereThank you for sharing that Nicole...it's perfect.
> most pure, perfect, and unlimited, where its votaries live in
> confidence,equality, and unreserve..." - Mary Shelley"
Ren