Was I wrong? Was he?
atvannoy
My husband told my 5-year-old DS not to chew with his mouth open. The next bite DS took, he started chewing with his mouth open again and my husband said, "What did I just tell you?" To me, that was really disrespectful, especially the tone, and I gave him a look and kind of shook my head no, at which point he got mad at me for correcting him. I will say, DS's chewing was annoying, but I was ignoring it.
Was I wrong to correct DH or show my disapproval of his comment? Was DH wrong to say anything to DS about chewing with his mouth open?
Thanks!
Angel
Was I wrong to correct DH or show my disapproval of his comment? Was DH wrong to say anything to DS about chewing with his mouth open?
Thanks!
Angel
otherstar
From: atvannoy
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 2:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Was I wrong? Was he?
I think in situations like that, it is best to try to help find a middle ground. Instead of telling your husband not to say anything, you might help him find ways of saying it that are more respectful. It might be helpful to try to explain to your son why your husband wants him to eat with his mouth shut. It is not that your husband is trying to be mean or controlling it is just that seeing somebody else's chewed food is kind of gross. It doesn't need to be a huge battle where you and your husband are on separate teams. If you wouldn't correct your son for doing something wrong, why would you correct your husband? When my husband corrects the kids, I try to help him explain why he is "correcting" them. I try to see my husband's point of view and help him share that with the kids. I want all of us to be on the same team, which means that I try to help everyone communicate their needs.
Unschooling doesn't mean that you let your kids do whatever they want with no input from parents.
Connie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 2:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Was I wrong? Was he?
>>>Was I wrong to correct DH or show my disapproval of his comment? Was DH wrong to say anything to DS about chewing with his mouth open?<<<I don't know about you but watching somebody chew with their mouth open is kind of icky. I think it is perfectly acceptable for somebody to tell another person that something they are doing is bothering them. My husband is a big kid and will joke around at the table and ask the kids if they want to see seafood and then he will open his mouth. I will ask him to knock it off because it is making me lose my appetite. I don't like looking at chewed food while I am trying to eat.
I think in situations like that, it is best to try to help find a middle ground. Instead of telling your husband not to say anything, you might help him find ways of saying it that are more respectful. It might be helpful to try to explain to your son why your husband wants him to eat with his mouth shut. It is not that your husband is trying to be mean or controlling it is just that seeing somebody else's chewed food is kind of gross. It doesn't need to be a huge battle where you and your husband are on separate teams. If you wouldn't correct your son for doing something wrong, why would you correct your husband? When my husband corrects the kids, I try to help him explain why he is "correcting" them. I try to see my husband's point of view and help him share that with the kids. I want all of us to be on the same team, which means that I try to help everyone communicate their needs.
Unschooling doesn't mean that you let your kids do whatever they want with no input from parents.
Connie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
"atvannoy" <atvannoy@...> wrote:
Actually, you both made the same mistake, you said "don't" without offering anything else. What could you have offered your son so that his dad didn't have to see a mouthful of half-chewed food? Could he put a hand or napkin over his mouth, perhaps? Then both of them could have felt supported rather than at odds.
---Meredith
>> Was I wrong to correct DH or show my disapproval of his comment? Was DH wrong to say anything to DS about chewing with his mouth open?**************
Actually, you both made the same mistake, you said "don't" without offering anything else. What could you have offered your son so that his dad didn't have to see a mouthful of half-chewed food? Could he put a hand or napkin over his mouth, perhaps? Then both of them could have felt supported rather than at odds.
---Meredith
atvannoy
DH didn't actually see DS eating with his mouth open, it was the sound of it that was bothering him. DS was eating a snack and was standing behind DH. But, that doesn't change the fact that I screwed up in handling it with DH.
<<Instead of telling your husband not to say anything, you might help him find ways of saying it that are more respectful. It might be helpful to try to explain to your son why your husband wants him to eat with his mouth shut. It is not that your husband is trying to be mean or controlling it is just that seeing somebody else's chewed food is kind of gross. It doesn't need to be a huge battle where you and your husband are on separate teams. If you wouldn't correct
your son for doing something wrong, why would you correct your husband? When my husband corrects the kids, I try to help him explain why he is "correcting" them. I try to see my husband's point of view and help him share that with the kids.
I feel like I need to correct DH because I feel like we need to be on the same page in how we parent. We're both from traditional families and the change to radical unschooling is challenging at times. DH agrees that it's the best thing for our family, but I'm the one that is actively reading and trying to implement the ideas. I guess I need to stop controlling DH while I'm trying to stop controlling the kids.
<<Unschooling doesn't mean that you let your kids do whatever they want with no input from parents.
Meredith - I feel like DH, DS and I are all at odds. I guess that is because of the way I'm handling things with both of them regarding radical unschooling.
Thank you for your replies. Hopefully asking questions and getting good advice from you all will help me figure out what I'm doing. :D
Angel
<<Instead of telling your husband not to say anything, you might help him find ways of saying it that are more respectful. It might be helpful to try to explain to your son why your husband wants him to eat with his mouth shut. It is not that your husband is trying to be mean or controlling it is just that seeing somebody else's chewed food is kind of gross. It doesn't need to be a huge battle where you and your husband are on separate teams. If you wouldn't correct
your son for doing something wrong, why would you correct your husband? When my husband corrects the kids, I try to help him explain why he is "correcting" them. I try to see my husband's point of view and help him share that with the kids.
>>Thanks for mentioning this - I can see that explaining to DS would help avoid problems with DH and DS.
I feel like I need to correct DH because I feel like we need to be on the same page in how we parent. We're both from traditional families and the change to radical unschooling is challenging at times. DH agrees that it's the best thing for our family, but I'm the one that is actively reading and trying to implement the ideas. I guess I need to stop controlling DH while I'm trying to stop controlling the kids.
<<Unschooling doesn't mean that you let your kids do whatever they want with no input from parents.
>>I'm having a real problem with this. I really thought that we shouldn't say anything to DS about chewing with his mouth open, even though neither DH nor I approved of it. I don't know when I should "correct" them and when I shouldn't. When is it control and when is it appropriate to "correct" them?
Meredith - I feel like DH, DS and I are all at odds. I guess that is because of the way I'm handling things with both of them regarding radical unschooling.
Thank you for your replies. Hopefully asking questions and getting good advice from you all will help me figure out what I'm doing. :D
Angel
Amanda Mayan
I would like to add that I try to never contradict my husband in front of
the kids.and if you hubby isn't totally on board with unschooling, I would
really be tuned into that. For my husband, respect is a big trigger; if I
contradict him in front of the kids. He sees it as a respect issue..me for
his parenting, them for him maybe. Sometimes I will let stuff he says or
does slide.and if it really bugged me, bring it up when we are alone..2
hours or even 2 days later.and then I bring it up super constructively
"I know you want the best possible relationship with your daughter, and when
you do x I think it undermines the relationship in y way..maybe you could
try accomplishing that same goal through.." Is the basic dialogue.
Sometimes, I will also chime in right after he says something with a gentle
and subtle modification..or I will distract my daughter in another room.
It's not really about who's "right" or "wrong" more about how to make a
lifestyle that you (hopefully) both desire work for your family unit. We've
never done and don't really believe in bedtimes.but when Maya was about 3
and Noah just born, my daughter and husband went on a camping trip with a
local homeschool group.he came back saying that she needed some limits
(there are some unschoolers in the group confusing RU for having no
personal limits and boundaries if it contradicts what the kids want) ..he
wanted her to have a bedtime so we could have "adult" time.I resisted for a
while, because I knew that if I laid down with her I was asleep for the
night too, and because I didn't like the idea of a bedtime.however, it was
REALLY important to him, so I said yes, as long as bedtime was his. Long
(slightly off topic) story short.he got the "yes" and felt like he was being
heard and that his input mattered.around the same time I realized that
"adult time" was not time with me, but his way of saying he wanted to watch
TV undisturbed and we got a second TV, lastly, since he is the one that
needs to help with bedtime (since we have a baby too and I cannot manage
both to bed at the same time) he rarely initiates it..when he does, it's
just reading and cuddling till Maya falls asleep..but he still feels like
she has a "bedtime" (however fluid) and that he has say as a parent.
One other note, since you mentioned you're having a hard time figuring out
how/ when to correct.I think a lot of parents (at least many of the ones
I've had a chance to observe) confuse the intent of RU with having the child
be "the center of the universe"..in our family we are all equals.thus, if
Maya is doing something annoying to me I tell her.for information.I assume
that's not her intent, but sometimes tap shoes on all tile floors are just
too grating to me, so I'll give her the suggestion of playing with them
later, going outside to play with them , or having me go to another room if
I can so that she can continue in the room she is..usually she'd prefer to
hang with me than her tap shoes, so she'll do something else with me, but I
would never let her just continue doing something that grated my nerves just
to avoid giving a limit.(though I look for an option that does work for
everyone).but I think it is important to model (and truly have) respect for
your personal boundaries and needs..that is just setting a good example for
your kids
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the kids.and if you hubby isn't totally on board with unschooling, I would
really be tuned into that. For my husband, respect is a big trigger; if I
contradict him in front of the kids. He sees it as a respect issue..me for
his parenting, them for him maybe. Sometimes I will let stuff he says or
does slide.and if it really bugged me, bring it up when we are alone..2
hours or even 2 days later.and then I bring it up super constructively
"I know you want the best possible relationship with your daughter, and when
you do x I think it undermines the relationship in y way..maybe you could
try accomplishing that same goal through.." Is the basic dialogue.
Sometimes, I will also chime in right after he says something with a gentle
and subtle modification..or I will distract my daughter in another room.
It's not really about who's "right" or "wrong" more about how to make a
lifestyle that you (hopefully) both desire work for your family unit. We've
never done and don't really believe in bedtimes.but when Maya was about 3
and Noah just born, my daughter and husband went on a camping trip with a
local homeschool group.he came back saying that she needed some limits
(there are some unschoolers in the group confusing RU for having no
personal limits and boundaries if it contradicts what the kids want) ..he
wanted her to have a bedtime so we could have "adult" time.I resisted for a
while, because I knew that if I laid down with her I was asleep for the
night too, and because I didn't like the idea of a bedtime.however, it was
REALLY important to him, so I said yes, as long as bedtime was his. Long
(slightly off topic) story short.he got the "yes" and felt like he was being
heard and that his input mattered.around the same time I realized that
"adult time" was not time with me, but his way of saying he wanted to watch
TV undisturbed and we got a second TV, lastly, since he is the one that
needs to help with bedtime (since we have a baby too and I cannot manage
both to bed at the same time) he rarely initiates it..when he does, it's
just reading and cuddling till Maya falls asleep..but he still feels like
she has a "bedtime" (however fluid) and that he has say as a parent.
One other note, since you mentioned you're having a hard time figuring out
how/ when to correct.I think a lot of parents (at least many of the ones
I've had a chance to observe) confuse the intent of RU with having the child
be "the center of the universe"..in our family we are all equals.thus, if
Maya is doing something annoying to me I tell her.for information.I assume
that's not her intent, but sometimes tap shoes on all tile floors are just
too grating to me, so I'll give her the suggestion of playing with them
later, going outside to play with them , or having me go to another room if
I can so that she can continue in the room she is..usually she'd prefer to
hang with me than her tap shoes, so she'll do something else with me, but I
would never let her just continue doing something that grated my nerves just
to avoid giving a limit.(though I look for an option that does work for
everyone).but I think it is important to model (and truly have) respect for
your personal boundaries and needs..that is just setting a good example for
your kids
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jul 16, 2010, at 9:36 PM, atvannoy wrote:
suggested. Use humor and fun! (Always have that in your tool box ;-)
Give him information that he may not know. He may not use it right
away but don't keep information from him that will help him get along
in the world.
The following is why radical unschooling is so hard ;-) It looks
hugely complex for something a conventional parent would respond with
"Don't chew with your mouth open!" (and then have the kid keep
chewing, and then anger over what turns into a power struggle would
follow.)
But, once you understand the whole process is about treating kids with
respect so they will grow up to be respectful, and that it applies to
lots of interactions not just chewing with the mouth open it's easy.
It's all about helping our kids be respectful by treating them with
the respect we'd show adults we cared about while taking into
consideration kids' lesser abilities.
If it were a matter of politeness, and you were out in public ...
well, I'd pretty much expect 5 yos to still be chewing with their
mouth's open ;-) If he were a socially aware child and you knew he
wanted to know, I'd let him know. If he were being unintentionally
gross, I'd whisper it to him that it's gross or isn't polite (depends
on the chid), give him options like "Swallow first," but give him
leeway. *Assume* he's doing the best he can. If he were being
obnoxious, you can be obnoxious back to get the jollies out. If he
continued and it seemed like he was bothering people, it's probably
because he's on beyond bored and you could take him from the table to
let him run around outside.
It's not rules. It's "How can I help him?" How you respond will depend
on the situation and the child's personality and needs.
A good rule of thumb is to assume kids are doing the best they can
with the skills, development and understanding they have of the world.
If information doesn't help them, then there's something bigger going
on (tiredness, hunger, boredom, too young) that you need to take care
of -- or wait out in the case of youngness. All behavior is
communication.
In the case of something bothering you or your husband, the more
personality quirks you can learn to live with, the more accepting of
him being 5, the more peaceful the atmosphere in the home is. No one
likes to live in an atmosphere of correction. Let home be a haven --
for everyone! -- where he's loved for his quirks and for being 5.
(This 5 yo won't be with you long! It only last a year and he's
replaced by someone else.) Give them information about being polite
out in the world. *Be* polite out in the world so he sees you doing
it. Give him reminders as help. (How To Talk So Kids Will Listen and
Listen So Kids Will Talk has some good techniques in it. It's *not*
entirely radical unschooling friendly but has lots of good tips in it.)
But say this is like one of the few things that's like nails on
chalkboard to him, your husband could have said in a pleasant, jolly
voice, "Hey, bud, that sound bothers me. Would you mind chewing with
your mouth closed?"
There are a few ways that might go.
If he were an always respected child, it's likely he would do the best
he could to keep his mouth closed because since people have always
taken his feelings into consideration, accommodating when he's asked,
he'd want to treat them with respect also. But once his mind wandered
off to other thoughts -- very likely with a 5 yo -- he'd probably
forget! Which *is* the best he could do. If you think of it as a
temporary handicap that will correct with age, the response is either
to learn to not let the sound be irritating or leave the room. If he's
asked again next time and the same thing happens, best to live with it
until he's older and has more awareness of what he's doing.
*But* even respected children are aware of the differences in power
between adults and kids. From kids' points of view, you and your
husband have a huge amount of power. Whatever you want, you have the
power (money, mobility, authority) to go get. Obviously not entirely
true, but compared to his power over the things he wants in life, it
is true. You have a craving for McDonald's, you can hop in the car and
go. You want a new book, same. You want hot dogs for dinner, you have
the power to get them and make them. Pretty much everything he wants
he needs to go through you or your husband and then wait for your
decision and then for a time that isn't too troublesome for you.
So, chewing with his mouth open when he's been told it bothers someone
can feel like power. To a 5 yo to be able to control the feelings of
an adult who has power over his body and feelings is huge!
So the response could be to turn it into a game of who can make the
most noise. :-) And then to be very aware of helping him feel more
powerful in his world. Find ways he can do things for himself. Be
aware of how often you're saying no or later when it could be done
right away.
But it sounds like your son was conventionally parented up until now.
Up until now his feelings have been treated with disrespect and he's
treating you the way you've modeled for him. Would you tell a friend
"Don't chew with your mouth open?" Would you then say "What did I tell
you?" We treat kids in ways that we know would lose friends.
The problem with that analogy is that most people have grown up with
parents modeling, "Don't chew with your mouth open!" as a way of
letting someone know something bothers us. And we know we don't like
that said to us and we know we don't want to use it on friends. But no
one's ever modeled anything else so we don't know what to do! So we
don't say anything. And then complain to other friends.
Do better for your son :-) Model for him ways he can let a friend know
something's bothering him. *For now* -- and this is what makes this
new way confusing for people because it seems like it isn't working --
when you ask politely he will *hear* "Don't chew with your mouth
open!" It will sound just like a different form of command. He will
assume his choices are obedience or disobedience. *Eventually* when
he's filled full to overflowing with respect, he will *feel* that his
choices are kindness and unkindness. But it will take loads and loads
of treating his feelings with respect to rebuild trust in you that you
do care about his feelings before he can give that back.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I'm having a real problem with this. I really thought that weDon't correct him or try to control him. Give him options, as Meredith
> shouldn't say anything to DS about chewing with his mouth open, even
> though neither DH nor I approved of it. I don't know when I should
> "correct" them and when I shouldn't. When is it control and when is
> it appropriate to "correct" them?
suggested. Use humor and fun! (Always have that in your tool box ;-)
Give him information that he may not know. He may not use it right
away but don't keep information from him that will help him get along
in the world.
The following is why radical unschooling is so hard ;-) It looks
hugely complex for something a conventional parent would respond with
"Don't chew with your mouth open!" (and then have the kid keep
chewing, and then anger over what turns into a power struggle would
follow.)
But, once you understand the whole process is about treating kids with
respect so they will grow up to be respectful, and that it applies to
lots of interactions not just chewing with the mouth open it's easy.
It's all about helping our kids be respectful by treating them with
the respect we'd show adults we cared about while taking into
consideration kids' lesser abilities.
If it were a matter of politeness, and you were out in public ...
well, I'd pretty much expect 5 yos to still be chewing with their
mouth's open ;-) If he were a socially aware child and you knew he
wanted to know, I'd let him know. If he were being unintentionally
gross, I'd whisper it to him that it's gross or isn't polite (depends
on the chid), give him options like "Swallow first," but give him
leeway. *Assume* he's doing the best he can. If he were being
obnoxious, you can be obnoxious back to get the jollies out. If he
continued and it seemed like he was bothering people, it's probably
because he's on beyond bored and you could take him from the table to
let him run around outside.
It's not rules. It's "How can I help him?" How you respond will depend
on the situation and the child's personality and needs.
A good rule of thumb is to assume kids are doing the best they can
with the skills, development and understanding they have of the world.
If information doesn't help them, then there's something bigger going
on (tiredness, hunger, boredom, too young) that you need to take care
of -- or wait out in the case of youngness. All behavior is
communication.
In the case of something bothering you or your husband, the more
personality quirks you can learn to live with, the more accepting of
him being 5, the more peaceful the atmosphere in the home is. No one
likes to live in an atmosphere of correction. Let home be a haven --
for everyone! -- where he's loved for his quirks and for being 5.
(This 5 yo won't be with you long! It only last a year and he's
replaced by someone else.) Give them information about being polite
out in the world. *Be* polite out in the world so he sees you doing
it. Give him reminders as help. (How To Talk So Kids Will Listen and
Listen So Kids Will Talk has some good techniques in it. It's *not*
entirely radical unschooling friendly but has lots of good tips in it.)
But say this is like one of the few things that's like nails on
chalkboard to him, your husband could have said in a pleasant, jolly
voice, "Hey, bud, that sound bothers me. Would you mind chewing with
your mouth closed?"
There are a few ways that might go.
If he were an always respected child, it's likely he would do the best
he could to keep his mouth closed because since people have always
taken his feelings into consideration, accommodating when he's asked,
he'd want to treat them with respect also. But once his mind wandered
off to other thoughts -- very likely with a 5 yo -- he'd probably
forget! Which *is* the best he could do. If you think of it as a
temporary handicap that will correct with age, the response is either
to learn to not let the sound be irritating or leave the room. If he's
asked again next time and the same thing happens, best to live with it
until he's older and has more awareness of what he's doing.
*But* even respected children are aware of the differences in power
between adults and kids. From kids' points of view, you and your
husband have a huge amount of power. Whatever you want, you have the
power (money, mobility, authority) to go get. Obviously not entirely
true, but compared to his power over the things he wants in life, it
is true. You have a craving for McDonald's, you can hop in the car and
go. You want a new book, same. You want hot dogs for dinner, you have
the power to get them and make them. Pretty much everything he wants
he needs to go through you or your husband and then wait for your
decision and then for a time that isn't too troublesome for you.
So, chewing with his mouth open when he's been told it bothers someone
can feel like power. To a 5 yo to be able to control the feelings of
an adult who has power over his body and feelings is huge!
So the response could be to turn it into a game of who can make the
most noise. :-) And then to be very aware of helping him feel more
powerful in his world. Find ways he can do things for himself. Be
aware of how often you're saying no or later when it could be done
right away.
But it sounds like your son was conventionally parented up until now.
Up until now his feelings have been treated with disrespect and he's
treating you the way you've modeled for him. Would you tell a friend
"Don't chew with your mouth open?" Would you then say "What did I tell
you?" We treat kids in ways that we know would lose friends.
The problem with that analogy is that most people have grown up with
parents modeling, "Don't chew with your mouth open!" as a way of
letting someone know something bothers us. And we know we don't like
that said to us and we know we don't want to use it on friends. But no
one's ever modeled anything else so we don't know what to do! So we
don't say anything. And then complain to other friends.
Do better for your son :-) Model for him ways he can let a friend know
something's bothering him. *For now* -- and this is what makes this
new way confusing for people because it seems like it isn't working --
when you ask politely he will *hear* "Don't chew with your mouth
open!" It will sound just like a different form of command. He will
assume his choices are obedience or disobedience. *Eventually* when
he's filled full to overflowing with respect, he will *feel* that his
choices are kindness and unkindness. But it will take loads and loads
of treating his feelings with respect to rebuild trust in you that you
do care about his feelings before he can give that back.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
As long as your dh is theoretically interested in more respectful parenting, you can ask him what *he'd* like you to do when he's not being his best. Work things out together so that he sees you stepping in as rescuing him from being an ass, rather than slapping him down.
George and I rescue each other from time to time - if one of us is tired or grumpy and losing it, the other will step in and take over and it feels wonderfully supportive. We keep the momentum of that feeling of support going, too, by talking afterwards - I'll say "thanks for helping out" or, if I'm not sure how he feels about something, "was it okay that I stepped in?" and almost always he's glad I did. If not, we talk about that, too, but it helps a whole lot that the *intention* is helping each other, rather than "correcting".
Something else that helped, back when I was the full time parent, was to tell George about the ups and downs of my day, times when I handled difficult situations well, but also times I made a mess of things so he could "see my process" - he could know I was still trying to figure things out, too. That helped us feel more like partners, rather than me trying to "teach" him how to unschool.
---Meredith
George and I rescue each other from time to time - if one of us is tired or grumpy and losing it, the other will step in and take over and it feels wonderfully supportive. We keep the momentum of that feeling of support going, too, by talking afterwards - I'll say "thanks for helping out" or, if I'm not sure how he feels about something, "was it okay that I stepped in?" and almost always he's glad I did. If not, we talk about that, too, but it helps a whole lot that the *intention* is helping each other, rather than "correcting".
Something else that helped, back when I was the full time parent, was to tell George about the ups and downs of my day, times when I handled difficult situations well, but also times I made a mess of things so he could "see my process" - he could know I was still trying to figure things out, too. That helped us feel more like partners, rather than me trying to "teach" him how to unschool.
---Meredith
Bun
If something bothers you, speak up about it. Explain why it bothers you and find a way for everyone to do what they want to do so it doesn't bother anyone (if possible).
I too sometimes "correct" my dh when I wish he would have said something in a kinder way. Dh has his own relationships with the kids, even if he doesn't always word things or feel things as kind as I'd hope. (And he is kind many times. And I can be short sometimes too...so I do keep that in mind. And I keep in mind how tired he might be or that he may feel overwhelmed with much to do at home after a long day at work, etc, etc. I need to be as thoughtful with his feelings as I am with others and keep in mind he is doing his best and that he loves them.) Anyway, I do notice that when I attempt to explain to the kids that Daddy would like them to do or not do something and give the reasons in a kind way, I notice that my husband might next time explain things a little gentler. He still might not be as thoughtful with his words as I wish all the time, but each time one makes a step in a kind direction, it helps to make our lives more peaceful and then the kids not only have a good role model of peaceful communication, but they can better understand why he feels the way he does more easily (because when you feel at ease, not stressed or accused, you can more easily listen to others). Laurie
I too sometimes "correct" my dh when I wish he would have said something in a kinder way. Dh has his own relationships with the kids, even if he doesn't always word things or feel things as kind as I'd hope. (And he is kind many times. And I can be short sometimes too...so I do keep that in mind. And I keep in mind how tired he might be or that he may feel overwhelmed with much to do at home after a long day at work, etc, etc. I need to be as thoughtful with his feelings as I am with others and keep in mind he is doing his best and that he loves them.) Anyway, I do notice that when I attempt to explain to the kids that Daddy would like them to do or not do something and give the reasons in a kind way, I notice that my husband might next time explain things a little gentler. He still might not be as thoughtful with his words as I wish all the time, but each time one makes a step in a kind direction, it helps to make our lives more peaceful and then the kids not only have a good role model of peaceful communication, but they can better understand why he feels the way he does more easily (because when you feel at ease, not stressed or accused, you can more easily listen to others). Laurie
--- In [email protected], "atvannoy" <atvannoy@...> wrote:
>
> DH didn't actually see DS eating with his mouth open, it was the sound of it that was bothering him. DS was eating a snack and was standing behind DH. But, that doesn't change the fact that I screwed up in handling it with DH.
>
> <<Instead of telling your husband not to say anything, you might help him find ways of saying it that are more respectful. It might be helpful to try to explain to your son why your husband wants him to eat with his mouth shut. It is not that your husband is trying to be mean or controlling it is just that seeing somebody else's chewed food is kind of gross. It doesn't need to be a huge battle where you and your husband are on separate teams. If you wouldn't correct
> your son for doing something wrong, why would you correct your husband? When my husband corrects the kids, I try to help him explain why he is "correcting" them. I try to see my husband's point of view and help him share that with the kids.
> >>
>
> Thanks for mentioning this - I can see that explaining to DS would help avoid problems with DH and DS.
>
> I feel like I need to correct DH because I feel like we need to be on the same page in how we parent. We're both from traditional families and the change to radical unschooling is challenging at times. DH agrees that it's the best thing for our family, but I'm the one that is actively reading and trying to implement the ideas. I guess I need to stop controlling DH while I'm trying to stop controlling the kids.
>
> <<Unschooling doesn't mean that you let your kids do whatever they want with no input from parents.
> >>
>
> I'm having a real problem with this. I really thought that we shouldn't say anything to DS about chewing with his mouth open, even though neither DH nor I approved of it. I don't know when I should "correct" them and when I shouldn't. When is it control and when is it appropriate to "correct" them?
>
> Meredith - I feel like DH, DS and I are all at odds. I guess that is because of the way I'm handling things with both of them regarding radical unschooling.
>
> Thank you for your replies. Hopefully asking questions and getting good advice from you all will help me figure out what I'm doing. :D
>
> Angel
>
atvannoy
Thank you all so much for your help and advice. I have read and reread and will continue to reread the posts until it all sinks in.
I definitely need to work more *with* DH and try to apply the radical unschooling philosophy to him as well as to the children. I think I've been trying to conventionally parent him. ;)
Joyce - thank you for the wonderful information and help and for the enormous amount of time you spent to reply to my post. I SO appreciate your thoughtful input.
Angel
I definitely need to work more *with* DH and try to apply the radical unschooling philosophy to him as well as to the children. I think I've been trying to conventionally parent him. ;)
Joyce - thank you for the wonderful information and help and for the enormous amount of time you spent to reply to my post. I SO appreciate your thoughtful input.
Angel
--- In [email protected], "atvannoy" <atvannoy@...> wrote:
>
> My husband told my 5-year-old DS not to chew with his mouth open. The next bite DS took, he started chewing with his mouth open again and my husband said, "What did I just tell you?" To me, that was really disrespectful, especially the tone, and I gave him a look and kind of shook my head no, at which point he got mad at me for correcting him. I will say, DS's chewing was annoying, but I was ignoring it.
>
> Was I wrong to correct DH or show my disapproval of his comment? Was DH wrong to say anything to DS about chewing with his mouth open?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Angel
>
otherstar
From: plaidpanties666
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 12:56 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Was I wrong? Was he?
Now, I can ask him why and he will say, "I don't know. Forget I said anything." (Of course, he will be grinning from ear to ear now because we both get it.) That has also helped to empower the kids so that they are comfortable asking us questions. If I am doing something that makes no sense at all, my kids will ask me why.
My husband really helped me get through a tough week this past week. I was helping with a family member and the kids were jealous. I went out for a couple hours one night and that aggravated the kids and their behavior went into a downward spiral. I got mad and whiny and started acting like the kids were punishing me for going out. (I know, not very grown up of me.) My husband stopped me and did a recap of everything that the kids and I had dealt with all week. He pointed out the change in routine, the change of eating, the added stress, and all of the other little things. He was able to recount the little things because I had told him about them during the course of the week. By the time he was done, I no longer felt guilty for going out. I thanked him profusely for keeping me in check. I had to enlist his help in a non-condescending, non-parental way before we ever made any progress. We both have our bad days but instead of correcting each other, we try to help each other.
Connie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 12:56 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Was I wrong? Was he?
>>>Something else that helped, back when I was the full time parent, was to tell George about the ups and downs of my day, times when I handled difficult situations well, but also times I made a mess of things so he could "see my process" - he could know I was still trying to figure things out, too. That helped us feel more like partners, rather than me trying to "teach" him how to unschool. <<<That was a big turning point for me. When I first discovered deliberate, whole life unschooling, I was so excited about it that I got a little over zealous. In the process, I was trying to apply it without really thinking about things. I was overconfident and came across as a bit of a know it all. My husband and I were talking about this the other night. He said that he never said anything because he didn't have any knowledge to draw from. He felt like he couldn't do anything right and my attitude didn't help. Once I took a step back and tried to explain my process to my husband, things go so much better. I told him that the easiest way for me to move towards intentional unschooling was to always ask myself why. Then, we worked it out where he became comfortable enough for me to ask him why in the moment when the kids are around. If he said something to the kids, I would ask him to explain it to the kids so that I wasn't contradicting him but I was also helping the kids understand him.
Now, I can ask him why and he will say, "I don't know. Forget I said anything." (Of course, he will be grinning from ear to ear now because we both get it.) That has also helped to empower the kids so that they are comfortable asking us questions. If I am doing something that makes no sense at all, my kids will ask me why.
My husband really helped me get through a tough week this past week. I was helping with a family member and the kids were jealous. I went out for a couple hours one night and that aggravated the kids and their behavior went into a downward spiral. I got mad and whiny and started acting like the kids were punishing me for going out. (I know, not very grown up of me.) My husband stopped me and did a recap of everything that the kids and I had dealt with all week. He pointed out the change in routine, the change of eating, the added stress, and all of the other little things. He was able to recount the little things because I had told him about them during the course of the week. By the time he was done, I no longer felt guilty for going out. I thanked him profusely for keeping me in check. I had to enlist his help in a non-condescending, non-parental way before we ever made any progress. We both have our bad days but instead of correcting each other, we try to help each other.
Connie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Debra Rossing
Just as a bit of different tack here: does your 5 yo have seasonal
allergies or a summer head cold going on? It's really hard to chew and
swallow with your mouth closed if your nasal passages are blocked up. He
might be doing the best he can but given the 'choice' of chewing mouth
closed or breathing, breathing usually wins (even for grownups). I might
check in with DS on the subject if I didn't already know that he was
having an allergy day and see what kind of situation we're dealing with.
And, I might provide DH with the info right when he gets home (if he was
at work all day) "BTW DS is having a pretty stuffy day today with the
humidity and pollen" and figure out ways that he can breathe AND eat AND
DH can be comfortable with the situation (set DS up with a picnic in
another room, or set DH up with a picnic in another room, or something).
Depending on your take on meds (whether standard OTC stuff or
homeopathic remedies or whatever), it might be worthwhile to plan it so
that max effect occurs right around dinnertime so that DS can eat and
breathe both without making munchy chewing noises that disturb DH.
Deb R
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allergies or a summer head cold going on? It's really hard to chew and
swallow with your mouth closed if your nasal passages are blocked up. He
might be doing the best he can but given the 'choice' of chewing mouth
closed or breathing, breathing usually wins (even for grownups). I might
check in with DS on the subject if I didn't already know that he was
having an allergy day and see what kind of situation we're dealing with.
And, I might provide DH with the info right when he gets home (if he was
at work all day) "BTW DS is having a pretty stuffy day today with the
humidity and pollen" and figure out ways that he can breathe AND eat AND
DH can be comfortable with the situation (set DS up with a picnic in
another room, or set DH up with a picnic in another room, or something).
Depending on your take on meds (whether standard OTC stuff or
homeopathic remedies or whatever), it might be worthwhile to plan it so
that max effect occurs right around dinnertime so that DS can eat and
breathe both without making munchy chewing noises that disturb DH.
Deb R
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This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
www.mastercam.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
atvannoy
Deb - That's a good point. I don't *think* he's been having any problems with allergies this week, but I definitely have, so that could be the problem. I'll have to check with him and see how he's doing.
Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I don't think I would have thought of that on my own. :D
Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I don't think I would have thought of that on my own. :D
--- In [email protected], "Debra Rossing" <debra.rossing@...> wrote:
>
> Just as a bit of different tack here: does your 5 yo have seasonal
> allergies or a summer head cold going on? It's really hard to chew and
> swallow with your mouth closed if your nasal passages are blocked up. He
> might be doing the best he can but given the 'choice' of chewing mouth
> closed or breathing, breathing usually wins (even for grownups). I might
> check in with DS on the subject if I didn't already know that he was
> having an allergy day and see what kind of situation we're dealing with.
> And, I might provide DH with the info right when he gets home (if he was
> at work all day) "BTW DS is having a pretty stuffy day today with the
> humidity and pollen" and figure out ways that he can breathe AND eat AND
> DH can be comfortable with the situation (set DS up with a picnic in
> another room, or set DH up with a picnic in another room, or something).
> Depending on your take on meds (whether standard OTC stuff or
> homeopathic remedies or whatever), it might be worthwhile to plan it so
> that max effect occurs right around dinnertime so that DS can eat and
> breathe both without making munchy chewing noises that disturb DH.
>
> Deb R
>
>
> **********************************************************************
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
> are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
> the system manager.
>
> This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
> MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
>
> www.mastercam.com
> **********************************************************************
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>