Re: [unschoolingbasics] Back to the original $1000 post
crystal rid
As the original poster I have been seriously considering this. I must admit that a good number of you seem to engage in a certain lifestyle tdhat I could never embrace. Not because of unschooling but because of the allow your child to do anything they want issue. At the time that I joined this list I also joined another lust on unschooling and I must admit that I could unschool the way they do But doubt I could ever do it the way you all seem to. Our views on life in general seem so far removed ed from each other. That being said with the exception of the computer discussion I have very much enjoyed hearing everyone s answers to my questions and have learned quite a bit.
On Mon May 17th, 2010 9:41 AM CDT marbleface@... wrote:
>I think we have missed an important question from the original post (below) in the "what would you do with $1000" thread.
>
>The poster asked if they should switch to unschooling.
>
>I'm thinking the answer is no.
>
>So much of the back and forth in this thread has brought out life choices that I just don't think are compatible with unschooling. Unschooling is not for everyone and there's no sense trying to force it.
>
>Maybe let that idea go and get on with homeschooling with some new resources.
>
>Nance
>
>
>
>My exhusband very much values education and is more then willing to pay for it
>to see that they get the best education. I have full custody and complete
>control of what school curriculum to buy/use. So should we switch to unschooling
>what things would you buy for unschooling? We usually buy a pricey curriculum
>and supplements. So what items or? Would you suggest buying in place of what we
>have been buying curriculum?
>
Joyce Fetteroll
On May 17, 2010, at 10:51 AM, crystal rid wrote:
Unschooling is very hands on. It's a partnership. We help them find
safe, respectful, reasonable ways to accomplish what they''re
interested in.
The conventional fear is that children will choose dangerous things.
That fear makes sense. Conventionally parented often kids do. When
kids really want something and parents say no, the kids will often
find a way around the parents. But without adult help, the results can
be disastrous. When parents are experienced as barriers,
The reality -- what unschoolers actually experience -- is that kids --
all humans really -- want to explore their boundaries to find out more
about themselves, what they like and what they dislike and why. When a
parent is there working or helping them work out ways to make an
interest happen, the child knows the parent is there to help and they
experience the process of taking care of the big picture rather than
just focusing on the goal.
I know one standard fear is of internet predators. What parents don't
realize is that predators don't prey on kids. They prey on *needy*
kids. When parents say no, parents hope that puts an end to the
desire. But it just creates a need the parent says they won't help
with. While one no or even a dozen nos doesn't create a needy kid --
though it depends on personality! -- if the child is building a
feeling that mom and dad won't help, that mom and dad care more about
what they want for the child than the child wants, he becomes a target
for a predator. The parents *think* the nos are protecting the child
but they're really cutting the child off. If someone offers
understanding when the child doesn't feel the parent does, the child
is going to turn to the one who seems to understand.
It takes a lot of damage to a relationship for a child to trust a
stranger over a parent, but conventional parenting is rife with
practices that whittle away at relationships. So much so that people
are certain that teen surliness and rebellion are biological. They
aren't. It comes from damaged relationships. The teen is absolutely
certain the parent cares more about the parents' agenda for the teen
than they do about who the teen is. By that point, because the parents
has only helped with the ideas the parent think are worthy and
dismissed the ideas the child thinks are worthy, the teen often does
want to fight against the control just to fight the control and do
dangerous things and want unreasonable things.
When the relationship is put first as with radical unschooling, by the
time the kids are teens, when a parent says "Not a good idea" the teen
knows the parent *is* interested in helping and they really do mean
this is problem that needs some serious thought to work around.
By the time a conventionally parented kid is a teen "Not a good idea,"
sounds like "No," "Where is your head?" "How could you possibly think
that's a good idea?" and all the other barriers the parent has spent
14-16 years erecting.
Another fear is pornography. A typical aspect of that fear is that
kids will see it unexpectedly and be traumatized. That's what "Safe
Search" is for on Google. Part of unschooling is helping kids find
what they want *and* avoid what they aren't interested in. They *want*
the junk they don't care about filtered out. Just as I don't want my
husband running ideas past me that he knows don't interest me. Where
filtering tears at a relationship is when the parent bases the
filtering on what the parent wants the child to see rather on what the
child wants to see. If for some reason my husband objected to fantasy
movies, I'd really resent if he were putting effort into keeping them
from my sight.
The argument is that kids are different and don't know enough about
the world to make good choices. But kids aren't aliens. They will
react with the same resentment and anger when someone is being a
barrier between them and something that intrigues them as an adult
would. What we do is help them safely explore it. Sometimes that
exploration may be us giving them some more information so they can
make a more informed decision (like a movie with a cat on the cover is
a horror film rather than an animal film. We can learn their tastes to
help them avoid what they don't want and find what they do want.)
That said, I turned Safe Search off long ago. My daughter knew how to
turn it back on but chose not to. She has seen porn pop up on Google
Image search, but just as she flipped past channels as a kid that
weren't showing something she was interested in, she skips past those
too. (She's 18, BTW.)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Not because of unschooling but because of the allow your child to doIt's more clearly expressed as helping them do what they want.
> anything they want issue.
Unschooling is very hands on. It's a partnership. We help them find
safe, respectful, reasonable ways to accomplish what they''re
interested in.
The conventional fear is that children will choose dangerous things.
That fear makes sense. Conventionally parented often kids do. When
kids really want something and parents say no, the kids will often
find a way around the parents. But without adult help, the results can
be disastrous. When parents are experienced as barriers,
The reality -- what unschoolers actually experience -- is that kids --
all humans really -- want to explore their boundaries to find out more
about themselves, what they like and what they dislike and why. When a
parent is there working or helping them work out ways to make an
interest happen, the child knows the parent is there to help and they
experience the process of taking care of the big picture rather than
just focusing on the goal.
> I consider a child with unsupervised internet access to be a veryThat's the standard fear. What exactly do you fear will happen?
> dangerous thing no matter what kind of filters you have in place.
I know one standard fear is of internet predators. What parents don't
realize is that predators don't prey on kids. They prey on *needy*
kids. When parents say no, parents hope that puts an end to the
desire. But it just creates a need the parent says they won't help
with. While one no or even a dozen nos doesn't create a needy kid --
though it depends on personality! -- if the child is building a
feeling that mom and dad won't help, that mom and dad care more about
what they want for the child than the child wants, he becomes a target
for a predator. The parents *think* the nos are protecting the child
but they're really cutting the child off. If someone offers
understanding when the child doesn't feel the parent does, the child
is going to turn to the one who seems to understand.
It takes a lot of damage to a relationship for a child to trust a
stranger over a parent, but conventional parenting is rife with
practices that whittle away at relationships. So much so that people
are certain that teen surliness and rebellion are biological. They
aren't. It comes from damaged relationships. The teen is absolutely
certain the parent cares more about the parents' agenda for the teen
than they do about who the teen is. By that point, because the parents
has only helped with the ideas the parent think are worthy and
dismissed the ideas the child thinks are worthy, the teen often does
want to fight against the control just to fight the control and do
dangerous things and want unreasonable things.
When the relationship is put first as with radical unschooling, by the
time the kids are teens, when a parent says "Not a good idea" the teen
knows the parent *is* interested in helping and they really do mean
this is problem that needs some serious thought to work around.
By the time a conventionally parented kid is a teen "Not a good idea,"
sounds like "No," "Where is your head?" "How could you possibly think
that's a good idea?" and all the other barriers the parent has spent
14-16 years erecting.
Another fear is pornography. A typical aspect of that fear is that
kids will see it unexpectedly and be traumatized. That's what "Safe
Search" is for on Google. Part of unschooling is helping kids find
what they want *and* avoid what they aren't interested in. They *want*
the junk they don't care about filtered out. Just as I don't want my
husband running ideas past me that he knows don't interest me. Where
filtering tears at a relationship is when the parent bases the
filtering on what the parent wants the child to see rather on what the
child wants to see. If for some reason my husband objected to fantasy
movies, I'd really resent if he were putting effort into keeping them
from my sight.
The argument is that kids are different and don't know enough about
the world to make good choices. But kids aren't aliens. They will
react with the same resentment and anger when someone is being a
barrier between them and something that intrigues them as an adult
would. What we do is help them safely explore it. Sometimes that
exploration may be us giving them some more information so they can
make a more informed decision (like a movie with a cat on the cover is
a horror film rather than an animal film. We can learn their tastes to
help them avoid what they don't want and find what they do want.)
That said, I turned Safe Search off long ago. My daughter knew how to
turn it back on but chose not to. She has seen porn pop up on Google
Image search, but just as she flipped past channels as a kid that
weren't showing something she was interested in, she skips past those
too. (She's 18, BTW.)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], crystal rid <cryway2@...> wrote:
The focus of this list is radical unschooling, sometimes called whole life unschooling. It takes the basic idea of unschooling - kids don't need a curriculum to learn academics - and expands it to include all parts of life: kids don't need and externally imposed learning agenda to learn what they need to live their lives. The details of *how* that works is what we're talking about here.
If you're not interested in all the way "radical" unschooling, please don't feel you need to defend your choices! (general you, not specific) Realize, though, that if you keep trying to explain your choices, others will keep explaining how radical unschooling is different - because that's what the list is for!
---Meredith
>At the time that I joined this list I also joined another lust on unschooling and I must admit that I could unschool the way they do But doubt I could ever do it the way you all seem to.***************
The focus of this list is radical unschooling, sometimes called whole life unschooling. It takes the basic idea of unschooling - kids don't need a curriculum to learn academics - and expands it to include all parts of life: kids don't need and externally imposed learning agenda to learn what they need to live their lives. The details of *how* that works is what we're talking about here.
If you're not interested in all the way "radical" unschooling, please don't feel you need to defend your choices! (general you, not specific) Realize, though, that if you keep trying to explain your choices, others will keep explaining how radical unschooling is different - because that's what the list is for!
---Meredith
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
<<< But kids aren't aliens. They will
react with the same resentment and anger when someone is being a
barrier between them and something that intrigues them as an adult
would. What we do is help them safely explore it. Sometimes that
exploration may be us giving them some more information so they can
make a more informed decision (like a movie with a cat on the cover is
a horror film rather than an animal film. We can learn their tastes to
help them avoid what they don't want and find what they do want.)>>>>
One example of this that happened last night. I come downstairs in the eveing to find my husband
Brian and my son MD ( he will be 8 in the end of June) wacthing a movie on TV.
I asked what movie was and they could not tell me the name but that it
was pretty cool. I sat down and in less than 2 minutes I realize it was Bridge to Terabithia.
It is a kids movie and up to a point it is really cute but them the girl gets killed in an accident and it
is pretty sad that even I cried when I saw it.
Knowing how my son is I knew he would have been very sad watching it and it was at the
part right before the boy comes home to find out his friend has died.
I told them what was going to happen and I asked MD if he wanted to see it or change the channel.
He decided to change the channel.
Up to the point the movie was cute and fun and I knew he would have been sad so I let him know.
I am sure he appreciated that I did. He is thankful that I am there to help him not see something
he does not want to.
It was his choice and he decided not to continue to wacth. I would have been OK if he wanted to.
Maybe a month from now he will feel ready to.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
react with the same resentment and anger when someone is being a
barrier between them and something that intrigues them as an adult
would. What we do is help them safely explore it. Sometimes that
exploration may be us giving them some more information so they can
make a more informed decision (like a movie with a cat on the cover is
a horror film rather than an animal film. We can learn their tastes to
help them avoid what they don't want and find what they do want.)>>>>
One example of this that happened last night. I come downstairs in the eveing to find my husband
Brian and my son MD ( he will be 8 in the end of June) wacthing a movie on TV.
I asked what movie was and they could not tell me the name but that it
was pretty cool. I sat down and in less than 2 minutes I realize it was Bridge to Terabithia.
It is a kids movie and up to a point it is really cute but them the girl gets killed in an accident and it
is pretty sad that even I cried when I saw it.
Knowing how my son is I knew he would have been very sad watching it and it was at the
part right before the boy comes home to find out his friend has died.
I told them what was going to happen and I asked MD if he wanted to see it or change the channel.
He decided to change the channel.
Up to the point the movie was cute and fun and I knew he would have been sad so I let him know.
I am sure he appreciated that I did. He is thankful that I am there to help him not see something
he does not want to.
It was his choice and he decided not to continue to wacth. I would have been OK if he wanted to.
Maybe a month from now he will feel ready to.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb Lewis
***I consider a child with unsupervised internet access to be a very
dangerous thing no matter what kind of filters you have in place.***
If you mean internet predators, not every child is at risk. The grooming tricks of predators work on kids who are so desperate for love, approval, acceptance, understanding that they'll take what they can get from *anyone*, even a stranger, because they don't have, and probably haven't had that at home, ever. Those same grooming tricks seem creepy and suspicious to emotionally healthy kids.
If you mean pornography, it's a common belief that every kid wants to see the weirdest of the weird stuff, but that's just not true. Kid's who have healthy relationships with parents and who can ask questions and get truthful answers don't have the same interest as kids whose access to information about sex has been restricted. When parents are normal about sex and sex information, kids are normal. Sexual weirdness doesn't start with internet pornography. It's starts with parental attitudes about sex.
Maybe you think kids should have no exposure to information or ideas about sex that the parent doesn't provide. A parent is not likely to be a child's only source of information about sex even if a family doesn't have a computer. I did not grow up with a computer or cable TV, but I had four older siblings and they had friends. My mother told me nothing about sex, but I knew plenty!<g> It's normal and healthy to be curious about sex. Sex will be part of a healthy life for many years. Emotionally healthy people aren't warped by seeing disturbing images. They may be shocked, or grossed out, but they're not warped for life.
We have not had parental controls or filters on our computers. Our son has had unsupervised internet access for years. I know he's seen pornography. He's even shown me or told me about some of the more amusing things he's come across. He's eighteen. He's never been in danger because of the internet and he's (relatively) normal.<g.>
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
dangerous thing no matter what kind of filters you have in place.***
If you mean internet predators, not every child is at risk. The grooming tricks of predators work on kids who are so desperate for love, approval, acceptance, understanding that they'll take what they can get from *anyone*, even a stranger, because they don't have, and probably haven't had that at home, ever. Those same grooming tricks seem creepy and suspicious to emotionally healthy kids.
If you mean pornography, it's a common belief that every kid wants to see the weirdest of the weird stuff, but that's just not true. Kid's who have healthy relationships with parents and who can ask questions and get truthful answers don't have the same interest as kids whose access to information about sex has been restricted. When parents are normal about sex and sex information, kids are normal. Sexual weirdness doesn't start with internet pornography. It's starts with parental attitudes about sex.
Maybe you think kids should have no exposure to information or ideas about sex that the parent doesn't provide. A parent is not likely to be a child's only source of information about sex even if a family doesn't have a computer. I did not grow up with a computer or cable TV, but I had four older siblings and they had friends. My mother told me nothing about sex, but I knew plenty!<g> It's normal and healthy to be curious about sex. Sex will be part of a healthy life for many years. Emotionally healthy people aren't warped by seeing disturbing images. They may be shocked, or grossed out, but they're not warped for life.
We have not had parental controls or filters on our computers. Our son has had unsupervised internet access for years. I know he's seen pornography. He's even shown me or told me about some of the more amusing things he's come across. He's eighteen. He's never been in danger because of the internet and he's (relatively) normal.<g.>
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
crystal rid
Min are still pretty young yet and need more protection from such things.
On Mon May 17th, 2010 12:00 PM CDT Joyce Fetteroll wrote:
>
>On May 17, 2010, at 10:51 AM, crystal rid wrote:
>
>> Not because of unschooling but because of the allow your child to do
>> anything they want issue.
>
>It's more clearly expressed as helping them do what they want.
>Unschooling is very hands on. It's a partnership. We help them find
>safe, respectful, reasonable ways to accomplish what they''re
>interested in.
>
>The conventional fear is that children will choose dangerous things.
>That fear makes sense. Conventionally parented often kids do. When
>kids really want something and parents say no, the kids will often
>find a way around the parents. But without adult help, the results can
>be disastrous. When parents are experienced as barriers,
>
>The reality -- what unschoolers actually experience -- is that kids --
>all humans really -- want to explore their boundaries to find out more
>about themselves, what they like and what they dislike and why. When a
>parent is there working or helping them work out ways to make an
>interest happen, the child knows the parent is there to help and they
>experience the process of taking care of the big picture rather than
>just focusing on the goal.
>
>
>> I consider a child with unsupervised internet access to be a very
>> dangerous thing no matter what kind of filters you have in place.
>
>That's the standard fear. What exactly do you fear will happen?
>
>I know one standard fear is of internet predators. What parents don't
>realize is that predators don't prey on kids. They prey on *needy*
>kids. When parents say no, parents hope that puts an end to the
>desire. But it just creates a need the parent says they won't help
>with. While one no or even a dozen nos doesn't create a needy kid --
>though it depends on personality! -- if the child is building a
>feeling that mom and dad won't help, that mom and dad care more about
>what they want for the child than the child wants, he becomes a target
>for a predator. The parents *think* the nos are protecting the child
>but they're really cutting the child off. If someone offers
>understanding when the child doesn't feel the parent does, the child
>is going to turn to the one who seems to understand.
>
>It takes a lot of damage to a relationship for a child to trust a
>stranger over a parent, but conventional parenting is rife with
>practices that whittle away at relationships. So much so that people
>are certain that teen surliness and rebellion are biological. They
>aren't. It comes from damaged relationships. The teen is absolutely
>certain the parent cares more about the parents' agenda for the teen
>than they do about who the teen is. By that point, because the parents
>has only helped with the ideas the parent think are worthy and
>dismissed the ideas the child thinks are worthy, the teen often does
>want to fight against the control just to fight the control and do
>dangerous things and want unreasonable things.
>
>When the relationship is put first as with radical unschooling, by the
>time the kids are teens, when a parent says "Not a good idea" the teen
>knows the parent *is* interested in helping and they really do mean
>this is problem that needs some serious thought to work around.
>
>By the time a conventionally parented kid is a teen "Not a good idea,"
>sounds like "No," "Where is your head?" "How could you possibly think
>that's a good idea?" and all the other barriers the parent has spent
>14-16 years erecting.
>
>Another fear is pornography. A typical aspect of that fear is that
>kids will see it unexpectedly and be traumatized. That's what "Safe
>Search" is for on Google. Part of unschooling is helping kids find
>what they want *and* avoid what they aren't interested in. They *want*
>the junk they don't care about filtered out. Just as I don't want my
>husband running ideas past me that he knows don't interest me. Where
>filtering tears at a relationship is when the parent bases the
>filtering on what the parent wants the child to see rather on what the
>child wants to see. If for some reason my husband objected to fantasy
>movies, I'd really resent if he were putting effort into keeping them
>from my sight.
>
>The argument is that kids are different and don't know enough about
>the world to make good choices. But kids aren't aliens. They will
>react with the same resentment and anger when someone is being a
>barrier between them and something that intrigues them as an adult
>would. What we do is help them safely explore it. Sometimes that
>exploration may be us giving them some more information so they can
>make a more informed decision (like a movie with a cat on the cover is
>a horror film rather than an animal film. We can learn their tastes to
>help them avoid what they don't want and find what they do want.)
>
>That said, I turned Safe Search off long ago. My daughter knew how to
>turn it back on but chose not to. She has seen porn pop up on Google
>Image search, but just as she flipped past channels as a kid that
>weren't showing something she was interested in, she skips past those
>too. (She's 18, BTW.)
>
>Joyce
>
>
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
crystal rid
Thank you for varifying for me. I think somehow I missed the radical part. It does make some of the responses Ive gotten make more sense. I guess maybe its like anything else. A year ago if asked I would have said full time unschooling was a bad thing. Now I m giving it serious thought. Right now I think radical unschooling is a bit much for me but who knows once I get the unschooling figured out.
On Mon May 17th, 2010 12:37 PM CDT plaidpanties666 wrote:
>--- In [email protected], crystal rid <cryway2@...> wrote:
>>At the time that I joined this list I also joined another lust on unschooling and I must admit that I could unschool the way they do But doubt I could ever do it the way you all seem to.
>***************
>
>The focus of this list is radical unschooling, sometimes called whole life unschooling. It takes the basic idea of unschooling - kids don't need a curriculum to learn academics - and expands it to include all parts of life: kids don't need and externally imposed learning agenda to learn what they need to live their lives. The details of *how* that works is what we're talking about here.
>
>If you're not interested in all the way "radical" unschooling, please don't feel you need to defend your choices! (general you, not specific) Realize, though, that if you keep trying to explain your choices, others will keep explaining how radical unschooling is different - because that's what the list is for!
>
>---Meredith
>
Joyce Fetteroll
On May 17, 2010, at 3:17 PM, crystal rid wrote:
My daughter has always had free access and didn't have problems. Why
do you think my daughter's experience is different than what your kids
would experience?
Do you think my values are different so that I cared less what she was
exposed to?
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Min are still pretty young yet and need more protection from suchCan you tell us what you fear will happen?
> things.
My daughter has always had free access and didn't have problems. Why
do you think my daughter's experience is different than what your kids
would experience?
Do you think my values are different so that I cared less what she was
exposed to?
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Gwen Montoya
Megan is 8, she'll be 9 at the beginning of August.
She's always had access to a computer. When she was smaller, we'd sit and
play Playhouse Disney together (we still miss Clay! :-) When she was older
we bought Jumpstart games (they are one of the few younger kid games that
aren't so educational they are dull). She's since graduated to Zoo Tycoon
and similar games.
She also plays Webkinz (not so much anymore). She loves Wolfquest and she's
starting to explore New Moon Girls. She's played some other online games.
Most of what she plays have "safe chat" - varying in strength from
pre-selected phrases to not being able to use some words. But there are some
games that have no filters at all.
I try to sit with her when she plays, but sometimes I need to take care of
my youngest or deal with the dog or whatever. Megan has logged out of a game
if people were saying things she didn't like (or if it was just boring).
She's not desperate for someone to be interested in her and talk to her.
One night, she was playing Wolfquest and I was keeping her company. She
mentioned that the kids were talking about being out of school the next
day. I mentioned that they didn't go to my niece's school because I knew
she had school the next day. In the next fifteen minutes or so, several
kids shared enough info that we were able to find their city & school and
they also mentioned what grades they were in & named their teachers. It was
an interesting exploration about how easy it can be to learn about people
and how little bits of info can add up.
I supposed I could have taken the info and scared the crap out of her with
it & done the whole "big scary internet" thing. Instead, we talked about it
and it became a real experience for her - not just something that caused a
"no, don't do this" reaction.
Gwen
She's always had access to a computer. When she was smaller, we'd sit and
play Playhouse Disney together (we still miss Clay! :-) When she was older
we bought Jumpstart games (they are one of the few younger kid games that
aren't so educational they are dull). She's since graduated to Zoo Tycoon
and similar games.
She also plays Webkinz (not so much anymore). She loves Wolfquest and she's
starting to explore New Moon Girls. She's played some other online games.
Most of what she plays have "safe chat" - varying in strength from
pre-selected phrases to not being able to use some words. But there are some
games that have no filters at all.
I try to sit with her when she plays, but sometimes I need to take care of
my youngest or deal with the dog or whatever. Megan has logged out of a game
if people were saying things she didn't like (or if it was just boring).
She's not desperate for someone to be interested in her and talk to her.
One night, she was playing Wolfquest and I was keeping her company. She
mentioned that the kids were talking about being out of school the next
day. I mentioned that they didn't go to my niece's school because I knew
she had school the next day. In the next fifteen minutes or so, several
kids shared enough info that we were able to find their city & school and
they also mentioned what grades they were in & named their teachers. It was
an interesting exploration about how easy it can be to learn about people
and how little bits of info can add up.
I supposed I could have taken the info and scared the crap out of her with
it & done the whole "big scary internet" thing. Instead, we talked about it
and it became a real experience for her - not just something that caused a
"no, don't do this" reaction.
Gwen
On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 12:17 PM, crystal rid <cryway2@...> wrote:
>
>
> Min are still pretty young yet and need more protection from such things.
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
crystal rid
Basically I dont want my children seeing any inappropriate images. Nothing above pg rating. Its not so much that I fear it as I see no reason to give opportunity. But predictors and inappropriate imageswould top my list.
On Mon May 17th, 2010 2:33 PM CDT Joyce Fetteroll wrote:
>
>On May 17, 2010, at 3:17 PM, crystal rid wrote:
>
>> Min are still pretty young yet and need more protection from such
>> things.
>
>Can you tell us what you fear will happen?
>
>My daughter has always had free access and didn't have problems. Why
>do you think my daughter's experience is different than what your kids
>would experience?
>
>Do you think my values are different so that I cared less what she was
>exposed to?
>
>Joyce
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], crystal rid <cryway2@...> wrote:
LOL! *I* thought radical unschooling was the craziest thing I'd ever heard of! Bunch of wackos... I stormed off a couple lists in a huff, even, but kept coming back. Something about this craziness is appealing. I liked the idea that I could be a partner with my kids, that I didn't have to protect them from everything in the world, and wondered how it could possibly work ;)
You *don't* have to dive in with both feet all at once, that's for sure - and in fact, it can be confusing to kids if you do.
---Meredith
(and Joyce, my "aha moment" since you asked, came in the middle of one of those looooooong threads about food or tv or something when I realized I had something to say other than "but I have to...")
>I guess maybe its like anything else. A year ago if asked I would have said full time unschooling was a bad thing. Now I m giving it serious thought. Right now I think radical unschooling is a bit much for me but who knows once I get the unschooling figured out.*****************
LOL! *I* thought radical unschooling was the craziest thing I'd ever heard of! Bunch of wackos... I stormed off a couple lists in a huff, even, but kept coming back. Something about this craziness is appealing. I liked the idea that I could be a partner with my kids, that I didn't have to protect them from everything in the world, and wondered how it could possibly work ;)
You *don't* have to dive in with both feet all at once, that's for sure - and in fact, it can be confusing to kids if you do.
---Meredith
(and Joyce, my "aha moment" since you asked, came in the middle of one of those looooooong threads about food or tv or something when I realized I had something to say other than "but I have to...")
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], crystal rid <cryway2@...> wrote:
All of them? Even the 11yo? That's a restriction with the potential for causing conflict, depending on how mature she is. At 11, plenty of girls are reading romance novels - I guarantee they're not PG!
My kids are 8yrs apart - there's a looooot of development that happens across those years, lots of times when one is interested in something the other finds dull, or grotesque, or scary. What has helped the most has been making sure they both feel empowered to say "No!" If one person doesn't want to see or hear or do something, its time to re-think. How can we make this work better for everyone?
Little kids don't want to see "adult content" unless its something that's been treated as a kind of special secret (or its the only way to spend time with parents, watching the news for example). They don't want to see sex - they aren't traumitized, just baffled and bored. Its not interesting to them. They may or may not fine "violence" interesting - or scary for that matter. That's something that varies a lot. Some kids like animated fights but not live action. Some are fine with any kind of fighting. Some are okay with physical fight scenes if the music isn't scary (so you can turn off the volume or skip that scene or watch with commmentary turned on). Some are fine with physical violence but hate "drama" - emotional violence. Mo hates any scenes that show adults yelling at children, but doesn't mind mayhem and gore.
If *you* don't want to see certain things, be clear about that - be clear about your boundaries!(but consider stretching them if your kids love something outside your comfort zone). If violence in movies and shows bothers you, say so (but please don't imply that what you're seeing on the screen is "real" - that's confusing fantasy and reality and kids don't need adults to do that). If sexual imagery bothers you, talk about that. What bothers you? That its unrealistic? That its scary? That it brings up personal issues? Your kids may agree, or they may have a different perspective (they may just find it dull, though, the little ones anyway).
But like it or not, with an 11yo, you're on the verge of dealing with issues of sexuality. *She* may be dealing with issues of sexuality already. Like I said, plenty of girls are reading romances to push their "sex ed" past periods and babies. Here are a few links with more information/thoughts in that department:
http://sandradodd.com/sex
http://sandradodd.com/sexadvice
http://www.scarleteen.com/
---Meredith
>*****************
> Basically I dont want my children seeing any inappropriate images. Nothing above pg rating.
All of them? Even the 11yo? That's a restriction with the potential for causing conflict, depending on how mature she is. At 11, plenty of girls are reading romance novels - I guarantee they're not PG!
My kids are 8yrs apart - there's a looooot of development that happens across those years, lots of times when one is interested in something the other finds dull, or grotesque, or scary. What has helped the most has been making sure they both feel empowered to say "No!" If one person doesn't want to see or hear or do something, its time to re-think. How can we make this work better for everyone?
Little kids don't want to see "adult content" unless its something that's been treated as a kind of special secret (or its the only way to spend time with parents, watching the news for example). They don't want to see sex - they aren't traumitized, just baffled and bored. Its not interesting to them. They may or may not fine "violence" interesting - or scary for that matter. That's something that varies a lot. Some kids like animated fights but not live action. Some are fine with any kind of fighting. Some are okay with physical fight scenes if the music isn't scary (so you can turn off the volume or skip that scene or watch with commmentary turned on). Some are fine with physical violence but hate "drama" - emotional violence. Mo hates any scenes that show adults yelling at children, but doesn't mind mayhem and gore.
If *you* don't want to see certain things, be clear about that - be clear about your boundaries!(but consider stretching them if your kids love something outside your comfort zone). If violence in movies and shows bothers you, say so (but please don't imply that what you're seeing on the screen is "real" - that's confusing fantasy and reality and kids don't need adults to do that). If sexual imagery bothers you, talk about that. What bothers you? That its unrealistic? That its scary? That it brings up personal issues? Your kids may agree, or they may have a different perspective (they may just find it dull, though, the little ones anyway).
But like it or not, with an 11yo, you're on the verge of dealing with issues of sexuality. *She* may be dealing with issues of sexuality already. Like I said, plenty of girls are reading romances to push their "sex ed" past periods and babies. Here are a few links with more information/thoughts in that department:
http://sandradodd.com/sex
http://sandradodd.com/sexadvice
http://www.scarleteen.com/
---Meredith
Faith Void Taintor
No one has said, "Give your kid a computer with Internet access and
ignore them." be invovled with your children. Do Internet searches
*with* them. Sit with them while they navigate the world wide web!
It's delightful. Or for the older ones be nearby ready to help, answer
questions, guide them towards the information they want. It's all
about making their world BIGGER! :-)
I have a dd13, ds7 and dd2.5. The oldest has her own computer w
Internet access and other software. She's a writer. She knows how to
safely navigate the web and I trust her completely. The younger two
share a computer with each other. Ds7 can do pretty much whatever he
wants. That means follow his interests which at this point include
legos, roblox, webkinz, pbskids, nickelodeon and nerf guns. I am
usually withing feet of him when he's online. I'm there so that he can
show me cool stuff or ask for help. Dd2.5 isn't reading :-) yet and
needs quite a bit of help exploring online. I'm right there with her.
Usually she's on my lap.
About trust and kids being safe...
Dd13 was telling me about a site she discovered, omegal.com. It's for
chatting anonomously with random people. My first reaction was -OMG
this is scary! Predators, my baby...!- so I took a deep breath and
asked her more about it. She said it's really fun and she's had some
great conversations. After listening a bit and asking a few more
questions, I told her how when she first told me about it is sounded
sketchy (I said it without drama). She said yeah there were sketchy
people but she just disconnected when people were weird. Mostly people
were cool and interesting. she has no interest in sketchy weirdos.
I don't need to protect her (or even ds7) because I've given then the
space to retain their own integrity. They listen to these alarms and
look at these red flags and walk away. They not been forced to repress
them. They protect themselves. They listen to their own sound inner
guidance.
Faith
Sent from my iPhone
ignore them." be invovled with your children. Do Internet searches
*with* them. Sit with them while they navigate the world wide web!
It's delightful. Or for the older ones be nearby ready to help, answer
questions, guide them towards the information they want. It's all
about making their world BIGGER! :-)
I have a dd13, ds7 and dd2.5. The oldest has her own computer w
Internet access and other software. She's a writer. She knows how to
safely navigate the web and I trust her completely. The younger two
share a computer with each other. Ds7 can do pretty much whatever he
wants. That means follow his interests which at this point include
legos, roblox, webkinz, pbskids, nickelodeon and nerf guns. I am
usually withing feet of him when he's online. I'm there so that he can
show me cool stuff or ask for help. Dd2.5 isn't reading :-) yet and
needs quite a bit of help exploring online. I'm right there with her.
Usually she's on my lap.
About trust and kids being safe...
Dd13 was telling me about a site she discovered, omegal.com. It's for
chatting anonomously with random people. My first reaction was -OMG
this is scary! Predators, my baby...!- so I took a deep breath and
asked her more about it. She said it's really fun and she's had some
great conversations. After listening a bit and asking a few more
questions, I told her how when she first told me about it is sounded
sketchy (I said it without drama). She said yeah there were sketchy
people but she just disconnected when people were weird. Mostly people
were cool and interesting. she has no interest in sketchy weirdos.
I don't need to protect her (or even ds7) because I've given then the
space to retain their own integrity. They listen to these alarms and
look at these red flags and walk away. They not been forced to repress
them. They protect themselves. They listen to their own sound inner
guidance.
Faith
Sent from my iPhone
On May 17, 2010, at 3:17 PM, crystal rid <cryway2@...> wrote:
> Min are still pretty young yet and need more protection from such
> things.
>
> On Mon May 17th, 2010 12:00 PM CDT Joyce Fetteroll wrote:
>
> >
> >On May 17, 2010, at 10:51 AM, crystal rid wrote:
> >
> >> Not because of unschooling but because of the allow your child to
> do
> >> anything they want issue.
> >
> >It's more clearly expressed as helping them do what they want.
> >Unschooling is very hands on. It's a partnership. We help them find
> >safe, respectful, reasonable ways to accomplish what they''re
> >interested in.
> >
> >The conventional fear is that children will choose dangerous things.
> >That fear makes sense. Conventionally parented often kids do. When
> >kids really want something and parents say no, the kids will often
> >find a way around the parents. But without adult help, the results
> can
> >be disastrous. When parents are experienced as barriers,
> >
> >The reality -- what unschoolers actually experience -- is that kids
> --
> >all humans really -- want to explore their boundaries to find out
> more
> >about themselves, what they like and what they dislike and why.
> When a
> >parent is there working or helping them work out ways to make an
> >interest happen, the child knows the parent is there to help and they
> >experience the process of taking care of the big picture rather than
> >just focusing on the goal.
> >
> >
> >> I consider a child with unsupervised internet access to be a very
> >> dangerous thing no matter what kind of filters you have in place.
> >
> >That's the standard fear. What exactly do you fear will happen?
> >
> >I know one standard fear is of internet predators. What parents don't
> >realize is that predators don't prey on kids. They prey on *needy*
> >kids. When parents say no, parents hope that puts an end to the
> >desire. But it just creates a need the parent says they won't help
> >with. While one no or even a dozen nos doesn't create a needy kid --
> >though it depends on personality! -- if the child is building a
> >feeling that mom and dad won't help, that mom and dad care more about
> >what they want for the child than the child wants, he becomes a
> target
> >for a predator. The parents *think* the nos are protecting the child
> >but they're really cutting the child off. If someone offers
> >understanding when the child doesn't feel the parent does, the child
> >is going to turn to the one who seems to understand.
> >
> >It takes a lot of damage to a relationship for a child to trust a
> >stranger over a parent, but conventional parenting is rife with
> >practices that whittle away at relationships. So much so that people
> >are certain that teen surliness and rebellion are biological. They
> >aren't. It comes from damaged relationships. The teen is absolutely
> >certain the parent cares more about the parents' agenda for the teen
> >than they do about who the teen is. By that point, because the
> parents
> >has only helped with the ideas the parent think are worthy and
> >dismissed the ideas the child thinks are worthy, the teen often does
> >want to fight against the control just to fight the control and do
> >dangerous things and want unreasonable things.
> >
> >When the relationship is put first as with radical unschooling, by
> the
> >time the kids are teens, when a parent says "Not a good idea" the
> teen
> >knows the parent *is* interested in helping and they really do mean
> >this is problem that needs some serious thought to work around.
> >
> >By the time a conventionally parented kid is a teen "Not a good
> idea,"
> >sounds like "No," "Where is your head?" "How could you possibly think
> >that's a good idea?" and all the other barriers the parent has spent
> >14-16 years erecting.
> >
> >Another fear is pornography. A typical aspect of that fear is that
> >kids will see it unexpectedly and be traumatized. That's what "Safe
> >Search" is for on Google. Part of unschooling is helping kids find
> >what they want *and* avoid what they aren't interested in. They
> *want*
> >the junk they don't care about filtered out. Just as I don't want my
> >husband running ideas past me that he knows don't interest me. Where
> >filtering tears at a relationship is when the parent bases the
> >filtering on what the parent wants the child to see rather on what
> the
> >child wants to see. If for some reason my husband objected to fantasy
> >movies, I'd really resent if he were putting effort into keeping them
> >from my sight.
> >
> >The argument is that kids are different and don't know enough about
> >the world to make good choices. But kids aren't aliens. They will
> >react with the same resentment and anger when someone is being a
> >barrier between them and something that intrigues them as an adult
> >would. What we do is help them safely explore it. Sometimes that
> >exploration may be us giving them some more information so they can
> >make a more informed decision (like a movie with a cat on the cover
> is
> >a horror film rather than an animal film. We can learn their tastes
> to
> >help them avoid what they don't want and find what they do want.)
> >
> >That said, I turned Safe Search off long ago. My daughter knew how to
> >turn it back on but chose not to. She has seen porn pop up on Google
> >Image search, but just as she flipped past channels as a kid that
> >weren't showing something she was interested in, she skips past those
> >too. (She's 18, BTW.)
> >
> >Joyce
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
otherstar
From: crystal rid
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 3:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Back to the original $1000 post
I felt the same way when my oldest was younger. I was very afraid of her seeing and hearing certain things. The more we went out and did stuff, the more I realized that it is almost impossible to keep everything PG. I will never forget when my oldest was 3 or 4 and saw a picture of a half naked lady on a billboard while we were driving down the road. I was horrified because she actually asked me about it. I think it was an ad for a gentleman's club. In my mind, that was not appropriate and there was no way to avoid that billboard. I also remember standing in line at the grocery store with my oldest daughter. The stuff on the shelves by the check out is pretty racy. The conversations of some of the people around us were less than stellar. I was so keenly aware of how R rated our world was that I kind of freaked out. It led me to do some serious thinking (and rethinking). I could freak out and try to limit my daughter (now daughters) or I could share my thoughts with them and empower them to think for themselves. It was interesting to note that the things that I noticed and was trying not to freak about were things that my daughter didn't even notice. The only reason that my daughter noticed the billboard for the gentleman's club was because of the pretty bra that the lady was wearing on her mommy drinks. : -) For my daughter, there was nothing sexual about the image at all. I was the one that filtered it as sexual and freaked out.
There have been several other instances where my children were exposed to things that I wasn't happy about. When my oldest was younger, she was playing with an older cousin. When she got home, I discovered that she watched him play Grand Theft Auto. That was way before I knew anything about unschooling so I muddled through. I had to make a choice. Do I tell my daughter that she can't hang out with her favorite cousin or do I talk to my nephew or what? For a while, I asked my nephew if he could not play it around my daughter. He tried not to play it but it was a really big inconvenience for him and it really irritated my daughter. I found out that they were sneaking around and playing it anyway. That was a long time ago. Now, I don't really care if they play it. I have talked to my daughter about why it bothers me and she has told me that she knows it is all fake. It is so fake that she finds it funny. This is from a kid that freaks out over real violence. We can't even raise our voices without her having a strong reaction.
Whenever I am watching a show that has anything remotely romantic or kissy in it, my girls will say something. My oldest will say, "Mom, that really offends me. Would you please change the channel?" My daughters' filter for what she considers inappropriate is way stricter than my filter.
Connie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 3:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Back to the original $1000 post
>>>>Basically I dont want my children seeing any inappropriate images. Nothing above pg rating. Its not so much that I fear it as I see no reason to give opportunity. But predictors and inappropriate imageswould top my list.<<<<How do you accomplish that?
I felt the same way when my oldest was younger. I was very afraid of her seeing and hearing certain things. The more we went out and did stuff, the more I realized that it is almost impossible to keep everything PG. I will never forget when my oldest was 3 or 4 and saw a picture of a half naked lady on a billboard while we were driving down the road. I was horrified because she actually asked me about it. I think it was an ad for a gentleman's club. In my mind, that was not appropriate and there was no way to avoid that billboard. I also remember standing in line at the grocery store with my oldest daughter. The stuff on the shelves by the check out is pretty racy. The conversations of some of the people around us were less than stellar. I was so keenly aware of how R rated our world was that I kind of freaked out. It led me to do some serious thinking (and rethinking). I could freak out and try to limit my daughter (now daughters) or I could share my thoughts with them and empower them to think for themselves. It was interesting to note that the things that I noticed and was trying not to freak about were things that my daughter didn't even notice. The only reason that my daughter noticed the billboard for the gentleman's club was because of the pretty bra that the lady was wearing on her mommy drinks. : -) For my daughter, there was nothing sexual about the image at all. I was the one that filtered it as sexual and freaked out.
There have been several other instances where my children were exposed to things that I wasn't happy about. When my oldest was younger, she was playing with an older cousin. When she got home, I discovered that she watched him play Grand Theft Auto. That was way before I knew anything about unschooling so I muddled through. I had to make a choice. Do I tell my daughter that she can't hang out with her favorite cousin or do I talk to my nephew or what? For a while, I asked my nephew if he could not play it around my daughter. He tried not to play it but it was a really big inconvenience for him and it really irritated my daughter. I found out that they were sneaking around and playing it anyway. That was a long time ago. Now, I don't really care if they play it. I have talked to my daughter about why it bothers me and she has told me that she knows it is all fake. It is so fake that she finds it funny. This is from a kid that freaks out over real violence. We can't even raise our voices without her having a strong reaction.
Whenever I am watching a show that has anything remotely romantic or kissy in it, my girls will say something. My oldest will say, "Mom, that really offends me. Would you please change the channel?" My daughters' filter for what she considers inappropriate is way stricter than my filter.
Connie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
crystal rid
It does seem awfully confusing at this point. We have fallen into unschooling by accident during times when we had a new baby or illness or whatever. It would not have met anyone s standard for unschooling simply that we didn t do schoolwork for long stretches . But I must admit that at this point I do wonder why some would go the radical route. But who knows what time will bring?
On Mon May 17th, 2010 4:18 PM CDT plaidpanties666 wrote:
>--- In [email protected], crystal rid <cryway2@...> wrote:
>>I guess maybe its like anything else. A year ago if asked I would have said full time unschooling was a bad thing. Now I m giving it serious thought. Right now I think radical unschooling is a bit much for me but who knows once I get the unschooling figured out.
>*****************
>
>LOL! *I* thought radical unschooling was the craziest thing I'd ever heard of! Bunch of wackos... I stormed off a couple lists in a huff, even, but kept coming back. Something about this craziness is appealing. I liked the idea that I could be a partner with my kids, that I didn't have to protect them from everything in the world, and wondered how it could possibly work ;)
>
>You *don't* have to dive in with both feet all at once, that's for sure - and in fact, it can be confusing to kids if you do.
>
>---Meredith
>
>(and Joyce, my "aha moment" since you asked, came in the middle of one of those looooooong threads about food or tv or something when I realized I had something to say other than "but I have to...")
>
[email protected]
That's not making the decision to unschool, though. That's taking a break.
Yes, there is a difference.
There's no reason you have to unschool. Or wonder.
Nance
Yes, there is a difference.
There's no reason you have to unschool. Or wonder.
Nance
--- In [email protected], crystal rid <cryway2@...> wrote:
>
> It does seem awfully confusing at this point. We have fallen into unschooling by accident during times when we had a new baby or illness or whatever. It would not have met anyone s standard for unschooling simply that we didn t do schoolwork for long stretches . But I must admit that at this point I do wonder why some would go the radical route. But who knows what time will bring?
Debra Rossing
If your kids are that young, how in the world would they find such
images as you are concerned about? It's not like the browser is going to
automatically pop these images up. We just set up DS' homepage (that
which would show up immediately when he opened the browser) to his
favorite site. Then we set up his favorites bar so he could get to his
favorite places easily. And, he'd come ask us to help him find other
stuff when desired if he wasn't sure how to spell it. That was our
opportunity to be alongside him and facilitate his access to the world.
Over time, he was able to handle it himself. But, in the interim, the
time spent together was about partnering and helping and yes, guiding
"hmm, that site doesn't look like it would have what you're looking for
but this one here seems to be good for what you want..." We didn't get
between him and the world of the Internet, we made it as easy as
possible for him to have access to what *he* was looking for. Often,
we'd also have accounts on the same sites (Roblox, NeoPets, etc) and
we'd have fun sending messages back and forth. He trusted that we
weren't/aren't trying to keep him away from things, so he was/is free to
talk with us/ask for assistance when something didn't seem right or was
frustrating or whatever.
Deb R
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images as you are concerned about? It's not like the browser is going to
automatically pop these images up. We just set up DS' homepage (that
which would show up immediately when he opened the browser) to his
favorite site. Then we set up his favorites bar so he could get to his
favorite places easily. And, he'd come ask us to help him find other
stuff when desired if he wasn't sure how to spell it. That was our
opportunity to be alongside him and facilitate his access to the world.
Over time, he was able to handle it himself. But, in the interim, the
time spent together was about partnering and helping and yes, guiding
"hmm, that site doesn't look like it would have what you're looking for
but this one here seems to be good for what you want..." We didn't get
between him and the world of the Internet, we made it as easy as
possible for him to have access to what *he* was looking for. Often,
we'd also have accounts on the same sites (Roblox, NeoPets, etc) and
we'd have fun sending messages back and forth. He trusted that we
weren't/aren't trying to keep him away from things, so he was/is free to
talk with us/ask for assistance when something didn't seem right or was
frustrating or whatever.
Deb R
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intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
www.mastercam.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Debra Rossing
Back when DS was about 5 or 6, a friend (L) asked DH to sit for a bust.
She's a sculptress and she loved the different textures in his hair and
beard (his hair is almost baby fine and was shoulder length at the time,
his beard is crinklier and was mid chest length then). He's got a solid
Germanic head, wonderful for sculpting. They arranged for the sitting on
a Monday afternoon. Side note: DH is the at home parent with DS while I
work fulltime. So, that means that DS was going to be with DH during the
sitting at her studio. As usual, we'd pack him a bag with his Nintendo
DS, paper and markers to draw, water bottle, snacks, etc. to make him
comfortable for that time. The day before the sitting, L said she needed
to talk to me. Okay, what's up? She was concerned because she had lots
of sketches of nudes hanging in her studio and wanted to make sure it
was okay that DS would be there. I just chuckled and said I'll bet he
looks around, asks why there are all the naked butts, and then ignores
them. Sure enough, they got there, he looked around, asked why there
were all these naked butt people pictures. L explained that drawing
naked people helps her see and learn about how muscles and bones work
when people move so that she can make better sculptures. He said Oh Okay
and grabbed his Nintendo DS and spent most of the rest of the time
playing and watching her work. It's never been a big deal - he's seen me
naked when he was younger, he's seen DH naked. Over the last year or
two, for a few reasons, he has chosen privacy for himself and prefers
not to see other people naked. So we honor that. It's no big deal.
Deb R
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She's a sculptress and she loved the different textures in his hair and
beard (his hair is almost baby fine and was shoulder length at the time,
his beard is crinklier and was mid chest length then). He's got a solid
Germanic head, wonderful for sculpting. They arranged for the sitting on
a Monday afternoon. Side note: DH is the at home parent with DS while I
work fulltime. So, that means that DS was going to be with DH during the
sitting at her studio. As usual, we'd pack him a bag with his Nintendo
DS, paper and markers to draw, water bottle, snacks, etc. to make him
comfortable for that time. The day before the sitting, L said she needed
to talk to me. Okay, what's up? She was concerned because she had lots
of sketches of nudes hanging in her studio and wanted to make sure it
was okay that DS would be there. I just chuckled and said I'll bet he
looks around, asks why there are all the naked butts, and then ignores
them. Sure enough, they got there, he looked around, asked why there
were all these naked butt people pictures. L explained that drawing
naked people helps her see and learn about how muscles and bones work
when people move so that she can make better sculptures. He said Oh Okay
and grabbed his Nintendo DS and spent most of the rest of the time
playing and watching her work. It's never been a big deal - he's seen me
naked when he was younger, he's seen DH naked. Over the last year or
two, for a few reasons, he has chosen privacy for himself and prefers
not to see other people naked. So we honor that. It's no big deal.
Deb R
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Debra Rossing
> But I must admit that at this point I do wonder why some would go theradical route.
The simplest answer is that if you come to trust that your kids can and
will learn in their own way, their own time, following their own
interests, with your help to facilitate access to things (driving to the
library, for example) why would you not trust that they can learn about
food, sleep, hygiene, Internet safety, interpersonal relationships and
so on the same way - in their time, their way, with you alongside as a
partner to help them get access to that which they want access to. It's
coming to the realization that once you start questioning the standard
"educational" stuff, everything else is open to question too. If going
to school is not "necessary", then is being "at grade level" necessary?
If getting up in the morning for school isn't needed, are
parent-established 'bedtimes' needed? And on it goes. It's about living
in partnership with our kids the same way we live in partnership with
our adult partner in the household.
Deb R
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are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
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Faith Void Taintor
I think it about context. I went to a public art high school. At aprox
14 we started life drawing with live nudes. Our teachers said there
was never any issues because it was treated like there wasn't any issue.
Engaging the world around you and your child in a full healthy way
will alieviate issues. Issues come up because of drama. Just don't
create drama around things.
Faith
Sent from my iPhone
14 we started life drawing with live nudes. Our teachers said there
was never any issues because it was treated like there wasn't any issue.
Engaging the world around you and your child in a full healthy way
will alieviate issues. Issues come up because of drama. Just don't
create drama around things.
Faith
Sent from my iPhone
>
Deb Lewis
***But I must admit that at this point I do wonder why some would go the radical route.***
Radical means going to the root, to the origin. As that pertains to learning, I saw my young child trying to do the same things the big people around him were doing and I considered that all of learning could be like that - finding a thing interesting or useful and trying to do it.
Toddler Dylan would help me fold clothes, help me pick up toys, help me wash dishes. A profound moment for me was when I was wiping off the kitchen table and he went into the bathroom and got a wash cloth and started wiping things. He first wiped the edge of the table. He was too short to wipe the top - fourteen months old - he then wiped the floor a bit, wiped his toes, wiped the side of the washing machine, and wiped the dog. I remember thinking then, maybe for the first time in my life, that learning was such a natural thing.
When I was little and helped my mom fold clothes she would always undo what I had done and fold it again. The right way. She sent a clear message that my help was wrong and not any kind of help if she had to do it all again anyway. I stopped being willing to help.
I decided not to do that to Dylan. I wondered what it would be like for a person to be free to learn naturally, to have someone on his side, someone who cared more about his accomplishment and joy than about how the towels looked. What if learning was in the desire, the attempt, the experimentation, the camaraderie, and not necessarily in the "right" outcome? That was a big idea for me.
I started reading about learning. Learning about learning.<g> I read John Holt and others, but probably Holt made the biggest impression, maybe his writing style appealed to me.
I started thinking about how other kinds of learning might happen the same way, how a person might learn to read by being around people who read and who read to him, by seeing lots of reading materials around, by using words and playing with words and sounds.
When I had these kinds of ideas it wasn't a stretch to consider how a child might, with help from people who cared about his happiness and success, discover all of the things in life that would be interesting and useful to him.
It seems like an extreme idea in a world that views children as empty, shapeless, lacking judgment, lacking intelligence, lacking morality, until some adult fills them, molds them, puts the important stuff into them. But it is not an extreme idea when you understand human learning and human nature.
When you hear the words "radical unschooling" consider it to mean going to the root of all learning.
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Radical means going to the root, to the origin. As that pertains to learning, I saw my young child trying to do the same things the big people around him were doing and I considered that all of learning could be like that - finding a thing interesting or useful and trying to do it.
Toddler Dylan would help me fold clothes, help me pick up toys, help me wash dishes. A profound moment for me was when I was wiping off the kitchen table and he went into the bathroom and got a wash cloth and started wiping things. He first wiped the edge of the table. He was too short to wipe the top - fourteen months old - he then wiped the floor a bit, wiped his toes, wiped the side of the washing machine, and wiped the dog. I remember thinking then, maybe for the first time in my life, that learning was such a natural thing.
When I was little and helped my mom fold clothes she would always undo what I had done and fold it again. The right way. She sent a clear message that my help was wrong and not any kind of help if she had to do it all again anyway. I stopped being willing to help.
I decided not to do that to Dylan. I wondered what it would be like for a person to be free to learn naturally, to have someone on his side, someone who cared more about his accomplishment and joy than about how the towels looked. What if learning was in the desire, the attempt, the experimentation, the camaraderie, and not necessarily in the "right" outcome? That was a big idea for me.
I started reading about learning. Learning about learning.<g> I read John Holt and others, but probably Holt made the biggest impression, maybe his writing style appealed to me.
I started thinking about how other kinds of learning might happen the same way, how a person might learn to read by being around people who read and who read to him, by seeing lots of reading materials around, by using words and playing with words and sounds.
When I had these kinds of ideas it wasn't a stretch to consider how a child might, with help from people who cared about his happiness and success, discover all of the things in life that would be interesting and useful to him.
It seems like an extreme idea in a world that views children as empty, shapeless, lacking judgment, lacking intelligence, lacking morality, until some adult fills them, molds them, puts the important stuff into them. But it is not an extreme idea when you understand human learning and human nature.
When you hear the words "radical unschooling" consider it to mean going to the root of all learning.
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lalow66
"
My children are very good about knowing what they can handle watching. The other day my son Ben asked me what movie Jason is from ( I think he had seen a character on Roblox). I told him it was from a scary movie called Nightmare on Elmstreet and he immediately stopped me from saying more and said, "next time I ask about a character like that, just say it is from a scary movie, I dont want any more details".
> One example of this that happened last night. I come downstairs in the eveing to find my husband"
> Brian and my son MD ( he will be 8 in the end of June) wacthing a movie on TV.
> I asked what movie was and they could not tell me the name but that it
> was pretty cool. I sat down and in less than 2 minutes I realize it was Bridge to Terabithia.
> It is a kids movie and up to a point it is really cute but them the girl gets killed in an accident and it
> is pretty sad that even I cried when I saw it.
> Knowing how my son is I knew he would have been very sad watching it and it was at the
> part right before the boy comes home to find out his friend has died.
> I told them what was going to happen and I asked MD if he wanted to see it or change the channel.
> He decided to change the channel.
> Up to the point the movie was cute and fun and I knew he would have been sad so I let him know.
> I am sure he appreciated that I did. He is thankful that I am there to help him not see something
> he does not want to.
> It was his choice and he decided not to continue to wacth. I would have been OK if he wanted to.
> Maybe a month from now he will feel ready to.
My children are very good about knowing what they can handle watching. The other day my son Ben asked me what movie Jason is from ( I think he had seen a character on Roblox). I told him it was from a scary movie called Nightmare on Elmstreet and he immediately stopped me from saying more and said, "next time I ask about a character like that, just say it is from a scary movie, I dont want any more details".
Schuyler
Not to be overly nitpicky, but Jason is from Friday the 13th. I can remember sitting in a movie theatre facing the wrong way in my seat at 16 or 17 going to see Friday the 13th part the somethingth. It was too scary for me. Simon and Linnaea are both very good at avoiding the things that they don't want to see, scary things, things on the graphic side of sexual. We've had lots of interesting conversations because of things they've stumbled across and then moved away from. I don't imagine they would even think themselves ready to sit in on a Friday the 13th movie for long enough to sit the wrong way in the seat.
Schuyler
________________________________
My children are very good about knowing what they can handle watching. The other day my son Ben asked me what movie Jason is from ( I think he had seen a character on Roblox). I told him it was from a scary movie called Nightmare on Elmstreet and he immediately stopped me from saying more and said, "next time I ask about a character like that, just say it is from a scary movie, I dont want any more details".
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
________________________________
My children are very good about knowing what they can handle watching. The other day my son Ben asked me what movie Jason is from ( I think he had seen a character on Roblox). I told him it was from a scary movie called Nightmare on Elmstreet and he immediately stopped me from saying more and said, "next time I ask about a character like that, just say it is from a scary movie, I dont want any more details".
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
otherstar
>>>>If your kids are that young, how in the world would they find suchimages as you are concerned about?<<<<<
I wondered the same thing. When my 3 year old is on the computer, I have to get her where she needs to go. My 5 year old isn't actively reading yet so she relies on me to help her sort things out. I have put the games and sites that they like in the tool bar for them. My oldest will google stuff and go on youtube but she usually asks me about it first. I don't tell her that she has to. She went through a period of time where she was very fascinated with anatomy and physiology. We talked about how sometimes innocent searches can bring up stuff that is offensive. She was more interested in finding the science. She didn't want to take a chance on being offended or grossed out so we decided to use books instead. We found a copy of Gray's Anatomy for her to research stuff on anatomy and physiology. If she wants to research a topic that she isn't sure of, she will ask me about it first. Since we have a computer station with 2 computers, it is pretty common for me to be sitting next to her anyway.
Connie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
otherstar
***But I must admit that at this point I do wonder why some would go the radical route.***
Radical means going to the root, to the origin. As that pertains to learning, I saw my young child trying to do the same things the big people around him were doing and I considered that all of learning could be like that - finding a thing interesting or useful and trying to do it. . . . . It seems like an extreme idea in a world that views children as empty, shapeless, lacking judgment, lacking intelligence, lacking morality, until some adult fills them, molds them, puts the important stuff into them. But it is not an extreme idea when you understand human learning and human nature.
***************************
One of my big aha moments was when we lived with my mother-in-law. We had pretty much always unschooled as far as curriculum was concerned. We had always been pretty lax on rules because I have always had a problem doing things that didn't make sense. "Because I said so" has always been a sore spot for me. When my family lived with my in-laws, I was reminded first hand how it feels to have everything scrutinized. We had to make our beds in the morning. We all had to eat at the table together even though it was not convenient and didn't make sense. We couldn't get up from the table without saying, "May I please be excused." Towels had to be folded just so or my MIL would "fix" it. She would stand over my shoulder when I cooked. I am normally a good cook but when she stood over my shoulder saying stuff and scrutinizing my every move, I continually messed it up. When my husband got what he thought was his dream job, one of the first things his mother said was, "Don't screw this up." We did not want to do that to our children. We had always leaned towards unschooling even before we knew it existed. When I discovered the radical unschooling boards, I was ecstatic because I found a way to NOT do to my children what my MIL did to me and my husband. I found a way to reconcile all of those bad feelings I had about all of the times that I was controlled or ignored as a kid. I saw radical unschooling as a way to heal myself and empower my kids so that they didn't have to put up with the stuff that I did as a kid. I didn't have a horrible childhood. It was actually pretty typical. The adults were in charge and you were supposed to go to school and get educated so that you could grow up and be a productive member of society.
Another big thing for me was watching my nieces and nephews grow up. I watched their passions get sucked from them each year they were in school. When I ask them their opinion on something, they seem hesitant like they are trying to give the right answer. There is a spark that is missing. I see that my sisters are either controlling them or ignoring them. If the kids have a problem, the parents step in and take control and "fix" it. So, the kids learn to quit asking or put themselves aside. Really, there are a ton of reasons that the radical route is appealing to me.
Connie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Radical means going to the root, to the origin. As that pertains to learning, I saw my young child trying to do the same things the big people around him were doing and I considered that all of learning could be like that - finding a thing interesting or useful and trying to do it. . . . . It seems like an extreme idea in a world that views children as empty, shapeless, lacking judgment, lacking intelligence, lacking morality, until some adult fills them, molds them, puts the important stuff into them. But it is not an extreme idea when you understand human learning and human nature.
***************************
One of my big aha moments was when we lived with my mother-in-law. We had pretty much always unschooled as far as curriculum was concerned. We had always been pretty lax on rules because I have always had a problem doing things that didn't make sense. "Because I said so" has always been a sore spot for me. When my family lived with my in-laws, I was reminded first hand how it feels to have everything scrutinized. We had to make our beds in the morning. We all had to eat at the table together even though it was not convenient and didn't make sense. We couldn't get up from the table without saying, "May I please be excused." Towels had to be folded just so or my MIL would "fix" it. She would stand over my shoulder when I cooked. I am normally a good cook but when she stood over my shoulder saying stuff and scrutinizing my every move, I continually messed it up. When my husband got what he thought was his dream job, one of the first things his mother said was, "Don't screw this up." We did not want to do that to our children. We had always leaned towards unschooling even before we knew it existed. When I discovered the radical unschooling boards, I was ecstatic because I found a way to NOT do to my children what my MIL did to me and my husband. I found a way to reconcile all of those bad feelings I had about all of the times that I was controlled or ignored as a kid. I saw radical unschooling as a way to heal myself and empower my kids so that they didn't have to put up with the stuff that I did as a kid. I didn't have a horrible childhood. It was actually pretty typical. The adults were in charge and you were supposed to go to school and get educated so that you could grow up and be a productive member of society.
Another big thing for me was watching my nieces and nephews grow up. I watched their passions get sucked from them each year they were in school. When I ask them their opinion on something, they seem hesitant like they are trying to give the right answer. There is a spark that is missing. I see that my sisters are either controlling them or ignoring them. If the kids have a problem, the parents step in and take control and "fix" it. So, the kids learn to quit asking or put themselves aside. Really, there are a ton of reasons that the radical route is appealing to me.
Connie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nicole Willoughby
I saw radical unschooling as a way to heal myself and empower my kids
so that they didn't have to put up with the stuff that I did as a kid>>>
A situation that just happened about an hour ago that made me think about this. I remember more than once as a kid going somewhere my mom said I couldnt , possibly getting hurt, usually not but hiding the evidence, lying, etc.
My 10 year old wanted to go down to the lake by herself . I told her I was concerned about her getting hurt on her bike and the phone not getting a signal for her to call me. (we don't get mch cell phone signal out here) she said she knew she could text so I asked her if she would please either call or text when she got out there. Well she took a bad fall on the trail right before she got to the lake and she called me. Of course I offered to come get her right away but she said she would make it back fine.
I think as parents we want to protect our children from everything and find out we can't so we can keep trying to keep them from everything and have them fear calling us when there is serious trouble or empower them to make the best decisions possible and be right there for them when things don't go as planned.
Nicole
"I've seen the village, and I don't want it raising my child." - LC
so that they didn't have to put up with the stuff that I did as a kid>>>
A situation that just happened about an hour ago that made me think about this. I remember more than once as a kid going somewhere my mom said I couldnt , possibly getting hurt, usually not but hiding the evidence, lying, etc.
My 10 year old wanted to go down to the lake by herself . I told her I was concerned about her getting hurt on her bike and the phone not getting a signal for her to call me. (we don't get mch cell phone signal out here) she said she knew she could text so I asked her if she would please either call or text when she got out there. Well she took a bad fall on the trail right before she got to the lake and she called me. Of course I offered to come get her right away but she said she would make it back fine.
I think as parents we want to protect our children from everything and find out we can't so we can keep trying to keep them from everything and have them fear calling us when there is serious trouble or empower them to make the best decisions possible and be right there for them when things don't go as planned.
Nicole
"I've seen the village, and I don't want it raising my child." - LC
--- On Tue, 5/18/10, otherstar <otherstar@...> wrote:
From: otherstar <otherstar@...>
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Back to the original $1000 post
To: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, May 18, 2010, 3:56 PM
***But I must admit that at this point I do wonder why some would go the radical route.***
Radical means going to the root, to the origin. As that pertains to learning, I saw my young child trying to do the same things the big people around him were doing and I considered that all of learning could be like that - finding a thing interesting or useful and trying to do it. . . . . It seems like an extreme idea in a world that views children as empty, shapeless, lacking judgment, lacking intelligence, lacking morality, until some adult fills them, molds them, puts the important stuff into them. But it is not an extreme idea when you understand human learning and human nature.
***************************
One of my big aha moments was when we lived with my mother-in-law. We had pretty much always unschooled as far as curriculum was concerned. We had always been pretty lax on rules because I have always had a problem doing things that didn't make sense. "Because I said so" has always been a sore spot for me. When my family lived with my in-laws, I was reminded first hand how it feels to have everything scrutinized. We had to make our beds in the morning. We all had to eat at the table together even though it was not convenient and didn't make sense. We couldn't get up from the table without saying, "May I please be excused." Towels had to be folded just so or my MIL would "fix" it. She would stand over my shoulder when I cooked. I am normally a good cook but when she stood over my shoulder saying stuff and scrutinizing my every move, I continually messed it up. When my husband got what he thought was his dream job, one of the first things his mother said
was, "Don't screw this up." We did not want to do that to our children. We had always leaned towards unschooling even before we knew it existed. When I discovered the radical unschooling boards, I was ecstatic because I found a way to NOT do to my children what my MIL did to me and my husband. I found a way to reconcile all of those bad feelings I had about all of the times that I was controlled or ignored as a kid. I saw radical unschooling as a way to heal myself and empower my kids so that they didn't have to put up with the stuff that I did as a kid. I didn't have a horrible childhood. It was actually pretty typical. The adults were in charge and you were supposed to go to school and get educated so that you could grow up and be a productive member of society.
Another big thing for me was watching my nieces and nephews grow up. I watched their passions get sucked from them each year they were in school. When I ask them their opinion on something, they seem hesitant like they are trying to give the right answer. There is a spark that is missing. I see that my sisters are either controlling them or ignoring them. If the kids have a problem, the parents step in and take control and "fix" it. So, the kids learn to quit asking or put themselves aside. Really, there are a ton of reasons that the radical route is appealing to me.
Connie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
crystal rid
I remember doing things I wasn t supposed to too. I think its great that your daughter asked first and had the means and willingness to let you know she was injured.
On Tue May 18th, 2010 7:48 PM CDT Nicole Willoughby wrote:
>I saw radical unschooling as a way to heal myself and empower my kids
>so that they didn't have to put up with the stuff that I did as a kid>>>
>
>A situation that just happened about an hour ago that made me think about this. I remember more than once as a kid going somewhere my mom said I couldnt , possibly getting hurt, usually not but hiding the evidence, lying, etc.
>
>My 10 year old wanted to go down to the lake by herself . I told her I was concerned about her getting hurt on her bike and the phone not getting a signal for her to call me. (we don't get mch cell phone signal out here) she said she knew she could text so I asked her if she would please either call or text when she got out there. Well she took a bad fall on the trail right before she got to the lake and she called me. Of course I offered to come get her right away but she said she would make it back fine.
>
>I think as parents we want to protect our children from everything and find out we can't so we can keep trying to keep them from everything and have them fear calling us when there is serious trouble or empower them to make the best decisions possible and be right there for them when things don't go as planned.
>
>Nicole
>
> "I've seen the village, and I don't want it raising my child." - LC
>
>--- On Tue, 5/18/10, otherstar <otherstar@...> wrote:
>
>From: otherstar <otherstar@...>
>Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Back to the original $1000 post
>To: [email protected]
>Date: Tuesday, May 18, 2010, 3:56 PM
>
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> ***But I must admit that at this point I do wonder why some would go the radical route.***
>
>
>
>Radical means going to the root, to the origin. As that pertains to learning, I saw my young child trying to do the same things the big people around him were doing and I considered that all of learning could be like that - finding a thing interesting or useful and trying to do it. . . . . It seems like an extreme idea in a world that views children as empty, shapeless, lacking judgment, lacking intelligence, lacking morality, until some adult fills them, molds them, puts the important stuff into them. But it is not an extreme idea when you understand human learning and human nature.
>
>***************************
>
>
>
>One of my big aha moments was when we lived with my mother-in-law. We had pretty much always unschooled as far as curriculum was concerned. We had always been pretty lax on rules because I have always had a problem doing things that didn't make sense. "Because I said so" has always been a sore spot for me. When my family lived with my in-laws, I was reminded first hand how it feels to have everything scrutinized. We had to make our beds in the morning. We all had to eat at the table together even though it was not convenient and didn't make sense. We couldn't get up from the table without saying, "May I please be excused." Towels had to be folded just so or my MIL would "fix" it. She would stand over my shoulder when I cooked. I am normally a good cook but when she stood over my shoulder saying stuff and scrutinizing my every move, I continually messed it up. When my husband got what he thought was his dream job, one of the first things his mother said
> was, "Don't screw this up." We did not want to do that to our children. We had always leaned towards unschooling even before we knew it existed. When I discovered the radical unschooling boards, I was ecstatic because I found a way to NOT do to my children what my MIL did to me and my husband. I found a way to reconcile all of those bad feelings I had about all of the times that I was controlled or ignored as a kid. I saw radical unschooling as a way to heal myself and empower my kids so that they didn't have to put up with the stuff that I did as a kid. I didn't have a horrible childhood. It was actually pretty typical. The adults were in charge and you were supposed to go to school and get educated so that you could grow up and be a productive member of society.
>
>
>
>Another big thing for me was watching my nieces and nephews grow up. I watched their passions get sucked from them each year they were in school. When I ask them their opinion on something, they seem hesitant like they are trying to give the right answer. There is a spark that is missing. I see that my sisters are either controlling them or ignoring them. If the kids have a problem, the parents step in and take control and "fix" it. So, the kids learn to quit asking or put themselves aside. Really, there are a ton of reasons that the radical route is appealing to me.
>
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>Connie
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Maisha Khalfani
<<The other day my son Ben asked me what movie Jason is from..I told him it
was from a scary movie called Nightmare on Elmstreet>>
LOL Jason is Friday the 13th. Freddy Krueger is Nightmare on Elm Street.
And they are both pretty spooky - at least in their first 3 movies.
Everything after that became comical.
Maisha Khalfani
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
was from a scary movie called Nightmare on Elmstreet>>
LOL Jason is Friday the 13th. Freddy Krueger is Nightmare on Elm Street.
And they are both pretty spooky - at least in their first 3 movies.
Everything after that became comical.
Maisha Khalfani
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Maisha Khalfani
Dakari is unphased by scary movies. It just doesn't enter his mind to be
afraid. I guess that's the great part about him being the shiny kid he is.
Safiya has gotten to the point where she enjoys being afraid as long as she
is controlling the object of her fear. For instance, they watched Darkness
Falls some weeks back (about the evil tooth fairy), and Safiya would run out
of the room and peek around the corner when she heard "the music" that lets
you know something is about to happen. The boys (including Khalid, 7, and
Khidar, 5) were not bothered at all by the movie. For some days after the
four of them had a good laugh pretending to be scared of the tooth fairy and
describing various scenarios in which she would come and get them. Now the
movie is old news.
Jabari and Safiya just sat through a horrible zombie movie on the SciFi
channel. Safiya thought it was a joke.
I think they react this way to movies because we always watch the behind the
scenes of movies like Lord of The Rings and the like. We talk about the
makeup and special effects, and how they make things look scary.
But we are big scifi, zombie, vampire people here. So scary is all we talk
about J
Maisha Khalfani
<http://earthspirittarot.blogspot.com/> EarthSpirit Tarot Readings
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<http://earthspiritbooksandgifts.blogspot.com/> EarthSpirit Books and Gifts
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<http://7freespirits.blogspot.com/> 7 Free Spirits
Follow our adventures through life
_
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
afraid. I guess that's the great part about him being the shiny kid he is.
Safiya has gotten to the point where she enjoys being afraid as long as she
is controlling the object of her fear. For instance, they watched Darkness
Falls some weeks back (about the evil tooth fairy), and Safiya would run out
of the room and peek around the corner when she heard "the music" that lets
you know something is about to happen. The boys (including Khalid, 7, and
Khidar, 5) were not bothered at all by the movie. For some days after the
four of them had a good laugh pretending to be scared of the tooth fairy and
describing various scenarios in which she would come and get them. Now the
movie is old news.
Jabari and Safiya just sat through a horrible zombie movie on the SciFi
channel. Safiya thought it was a joke.
I think they react this way to movies because we always watch the behind the
scenes of movies like Lord of The Rings and the like. We talk about the
makeup and special effects, and how they make things look scary.
But we are big scifi, zombie, vampire people here. So scary is all we talk
about J
Maisha Khalfani
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plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], "Maisha Khalfani" <7freespirits@...> wrote:
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
>> Jabari and Safiya just sat through a horrible zombie movie on the SciFiA year or so ago there was a "Kill Bill" marathon on some channel or other - both movies back to back and Ray wanted to watch them. Mo drifted into the room partway through the first movie and I was on the edge of my seat, ready to jump in with some quick problem solving if she found it upsetting. Instead she thought it very funny - she easily saw all the comic book and cartoon references I'd totally missed and happily sat through both films, highly entertained.
> channel. Safiya thought it was a joke.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)