re: unschooling and bed times
S
Hi, according to the study I've done on unschooling, many unschoolers
would made a difference between unschooling (which means no curriculum
and kids learn by life and choosing what they want to do/learn) and
having house rules. In other words, you can be an unschooler and still
have basic rules about bedtimes, tv, etc. It doesn't mean you have
no structures. This would vary by individual family.
In my opinion, moms (and dads) have needs too, and negotiating/adjusting
bedtimes can be challenging.
Our son is now 14, so my husband and I allow him to stay up after we
go to bed if he wants to occasionally but the modem for the internet
is turned off. My husband's work schedule varies quite a bit and we
are all used to staying up (all of us) to around 11 or 11:30 pm.
When my h feels tired and wants to go to be earlier (10 or 10:30)
usually we all go to bed, but at times my son says he won't be able
to sleep so we let him stay up for an hour or so; he goes to bed.
I think once you get into a pattern it is hard for people to change
it so you are better off, if you can, to set the pattern you want
and stick with it. But, given life and changes, that's not always
possible.
Good luck,
Laurie
-----------
would made a difference between unschooling (which means no curriculum
and kids learn by life and choosing what they want to do/learn) and
having house rules. In other words, you can be an unschooler and still
have basic rules about bedtimes, tv, etc. It doesn't mean you have
no structures. This would vary by individual family.
In my opinion, moms (and dads) have needs too, and negotiating/adjusting
bedtimes can be challenging.
Our son is now 14, so my husband and I allow him to stay up after we
go to bed if he wants to occasionally but the modem for the internet
is turned off. My husband's work schedule varies quite a bit and we
are all used to staying up (all of us) to around 11 or 11:30 pm.
When my h feels tired and wants to go to be earlier (10 or 10:30)
usually we all go to bed, but at times my son says he won't be able
to sleep so we let him stay up for an hour or so; he goes to bed.
I think once you get into a pattern it is hard for people to change
it so you are better off, if you can, to set the pattern you want
and stick with it. But, given life and changes, that's not always
possible.
Good luck,
Laurie
-----------
Karen Swanay
Wow...you turn off the modem?! You don't trust him much do you?
We have three kids, two boys 13, and 11 and a daughter age 5 (mentally she's
about 3) She's the only one with a bed time but that's because she asks to
go to bed. Often we keep her up later than she'd like because she'd rather
be on 5pm to 5am schedule and I don't want to be up that early. But the
boys go to bed whenever they want. Occasionally that means they stay up all
night or until something kind of stupid like 6am! LOL but if it's what they
need they know it. And then they sleep until they get up. The only rule we
have re: sleep is that if they want to be up all night that's fine but when
sister goes to bed at 8:30-9pm and we go to bed 9-10 pm then any bickering
they want to do better be quiet bickering. NO YELLING. That's it. And
that's just common courtesy. I return the courtesy by not running the dyson
while they sleep etc. But the rule isn't meant to control them just allow
those of us who need sleep to get it.
Your "study" of unschooling...mind elaborating on the research design and
reliability and validity? What external and internal threats did you find
and adjust for? Can I read it somewhere because to the best of my knowledge
there aren't studies on unschooling published anywhere. I'd like to see
what they have to say and if they are reviewed and duplicatable.
Thanks!
Karen
"Correlation does not imply causation."
"If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a
nail." Abraham Maslow
We have three kids, two boys 13, and 11 and a daughter age 5 (mentally she's
about 3) She's the only one with a bed time but that's because she asks to
go to bed. Often we keep her up later than she'd like because she'd rather
be on 5pm to 5am schedule and I don't want to be up that early. But the
boys go to bed whenever they want. Occasionally that means they stay up all
night or until something kind of stupid like 6am! LOL but if it's what they
need they know it. And then they sleep until they get up. The only rule we
have re: sleep is that if they want to be up all night that's fine but when
sister goes to bed at 8:30-9pm and we go to bed 9-10 pm then any bickering
they want to do better be quiet bickering. NO YELLING. That's it. And
that's just common courtesy. I return the courtesy by not running the dyson
while they sleep etc. But the rule isn't meant to control them just allow
those of us who need sleep to get it.
Your "study" of unschooling...mind elaborating on the research design and
reliability and validity? What external and internal threats did you find
and adjust for? Can I read it somewhere because to the best of my knowledge
there aren't studies on unschooling published anywhere. I'd like to see
what they have to say and if they are reviewed and duplicatable.
Thanks!
Karen
"Correlation does not imply causation."
"If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a
nail." Abraham Maslow
On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 11:08 AM, S <seated_in_heavenlies@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi, according to the study I've done on unschooling, many unschoolers
> would made a difference between unschooling (which means no curriculum
> and kids learn by life and choosing what they want to do/learn) and
> having house rules. In other words, you can be an unschooler and still
> have basic rules about bedtimes, tv, etc. It doesn't mean you have
> no structures. This would vary by individual family.
>
> In my opinion, moms (and dads) have needs too, and negotiating/adjusting
> bedtimes can be challenging.
>
> Our son is now 14, so my husband and I allow him to stay up after we
> go to bed if he wants to occasionally but the modem for the internet
> is turned off. My husband's work schedule varies quite a bit and we
> are all used to staying up (all of us) to around 11 or 11:30 pm.
> When my h feels tired and wants to go to be earlier (10 or 10:30)
> usually we all go to bed, but at times my son says he won't be able
> to sleep so we let him stay up for an hour or so; he goes to bed.
>
> I think once you get into a pattern it is hard for people to change
> it so you are better off, if you can, to set the pattern you want
> and stick with it. But, given life and changes, that's not always
> possible.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Laurie
> -----------
>
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
JJ
"I think once you get into a pattern it is hard for people to change
it so you are better off, if you can, to set the pattern you want
and stick with it."
The pattern of living alone for example, or at least without pesky children in the house, if that's how you prefer to live. (I don't read other unschooling lists; is there some allergic reaction to real unschooling principles in the air out there somewhere I'm not aware of, blowing into my email box all of a sudden?)
it so you are better off, if you can, to set the pattern you want
and stick with it."
The pattern of living alone for example, or at least without pesky children in the house, if that's how you prefer to live. (I don't read other unschooling lists; is there some allergic reaction to real unschooling principles in the air out there somewhere I'm not aware of, blowing into my email box all of a sudden?)
Joyce Fetteroll
On May 5, 2010, at 12:08 PM, S wrote:
learning and radical unschooling extends the same principles to
parenting. But here and many places unschooling is used to mean
radical unschooling since many find it doesn't make sense to trust
kids to learn math but not how to sleep and eat and so forth.
This list is for the basics of radical unschooling. The main page at
Yahoo says:
==========
Where there is huge disagreement is in how to meet those needs.
ways to help kids fall asleep when they're tired.
Another stumbling block for many starting radical unschooling is
understanding that some needs do take priority over other needs. The
need for the breadwinner to get a solid night's sleep trumps noisy fun
at 2AM.
read, but you couldn't listen to music even with headphones? Would it
feel trusting and respectful? Would it feel loving? Would it feel like
one of his joys in life was you enjoying yourself? Would it build a
closer relationship between you?
advice. It's all about making raising kids more convenient.
But kids aren't convenient. They have needs that often inconvenience
us. Using our power to make someone more convenient -- child, partner,
friend -- doesn't build a stronger relationship with them.
The list is geared to providing advice that will help parents build
better relationships with their kids. Becoming a child's partner has
its stumbling blocks, mainly because other than radical unschoolers,
there aren't good models to grow an understanding from and build from.
Most people try to build from the conventional models of parent child
relationships they are familiar with and partnership and authoritarian
don't fit well together.
Radical unschooling does need a huge shift in perspective. It requires
questioning and letting go of a lot of ideas that people are certain
are necessary to raise children successfully. It often means creating
more inconvenience for us. But in the long run, the benefits in the
relationship are huge. For unschoolers it's not chance to end up with
teens that trust and like their parents. It grows naturally from
trusting them and respecting them from an early age.
Being a full on radical unschooler isn't a requirement for membership
on the list. But for those who've joined for the purpose the list is
aimed at, the advice needs to help them let go of and move beyond
conventional practices.
I'm glad what you're doing is working for you. I think with most
approaches that someone wouldn't use on a friend or a partner, it's
likely to decrease trust, make the child feel his needs are only
important when the parent agrees with them and indulged and begrudged
other times. Maybe this one thing is the only rule you have and the
rest of your hours are about supporting his needs however you can. One
rule is not likely to chip at the relationship. But if there are other
areas you've drawn a line you don't feel comfortable for him to cross,
each will chip a bit more. As independence pulls at him as he gets
older, even as soon as 16, you might feel the strain and him pulling
away.
Maybe it won't happen. Some kids are compliant. Some kids feel
comforted by rules that set how their world works. I was that way. But
it's also less likely you'll have the close, trusting, respectful
relationship long time radical unschoolers have with their kid even
through the teen years.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Hi, according to the study I've done on unschooling, many unschoolersYes. When a distinction needs made, unschooling refers just to
> would made a difference between unschooling (which means no curriculum
> and kids learn by life and choosing what they want to do/learn) and
> having house rules
learning and radical unschooling extends the same principles to
parenting. But here and many places unschooling is used to mean
radical unschooling since many find it doesn't make sense to trust
kids to learn math but not how to sleep and eat and so forth.
This list is for the basics of radical unschooling. The main page at
Yahoo says:
==========
> A list designed for those new to the philosophy of whole-life==========
> unschooling. Ask experienced unschoolers all those niggling
> questions, and find out how unschooling works in real families,
> across all aspects of life.
>
> If you're familiar with unschooling as a general concept, but unsure
> of how to begin or what an unschooling day really looks like, this
> is a place for you to discuss, question, ponder and become deeply
> familiar with natural learning and how it affects our entire lives.
> From parenting issues to learning from the whole wide world and
> beyond, come explore the issues that unschooling families have dealt
> with in the past and how to get beyond "school-think" to a joyful
> unschooling lifestyle!
>
> Whole life (or �radical�) unschooling goes well beyond ideas of
> �teachable moments� and �the world as your classroom� to a view of
> learning as an inherent part of life itself. If you aren�t familiar
> with whole-life unschooling, you�ll find a wealth of basic
> information here:
> http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/
> http://sandradodd.com/unschooling
> In my opinion, moms (and dads) have needs too,I don't think anyone would disagree with your opinion! ;-)
Where there is huge disagreement is in how to meet those needs.
> and negotiating/adjustingNot for radical unschoolers ;-) What can be challenging is finding
> bedtimes can be challenging.
ways to help kids fall asleep when they're tired.
Another stumbling block for many starting radical unschooling is
understanding that some needs do take priority over other needs. The
need for the breadwinner to get a solid night's sleep trumps noisy fun
at 2AM.
> Our son is now 14, so my husband and I allow him to stay up after weWhat if your husband decided you could stay up an hour after he did to
> go to bed if he wants to occasionally but the modem for the internet
> is turned off.
read, but you couldn't listen to music even with headphones? Would it
feel trusting and respectful? Would it feel loving? Would it feel like
one of his joys in life was you enjoying yourself? Would it build a
closer relationship between you?
> I think once you get into a pattern it is hard for people to changeMost conventional parents would feel very comfortable with that
> it so you are better off, if you can, to set the pattern you want
> and stick with it.
advice. It's all about making raising kids more convenient.
But kids aren't convenient. They have needs that often inconvenience
us. Using our power to make someone more convenient -- child, partner,
friend -- doesn't build a stronger relationship with them.
The list is geared to providing advice that will help parents build
better relationships with their kids. Becoming a child's partner has
its stumbling blocks, mainly because other than radical unschoolers,
there aren't good models to grow an understanding from and build from.
Most people try to build from the conventional models of parent child
relationships they are familiar with and partnership and authoritarian
don't fit well together.
Radical unschooling does need a huge shift in perspective. It requires
questioning and letting go of a lot of ideas that people are certain
are necessary to raise children successfully. It often means creating
more inconvenience for us. But in the long run, the benefits in the
relationship are huge. For unschoolers it's not chance to end up with
teens that trust and like their parents. It grows naturally from
trusting them and respecting them from an early age.
Being a full on radical unschooler isn't a requirement for membership
on the list. But for those who've joined for the purpose the list is
aimed at, the advice needs to help them let go of and move beyond
conventional practices.
I'm glad what you're doing is working for you. I think with most
approaches that someone wouldn't use on a friend or a partner, it's
likely to decrease trust, make the child feel his needs are only
important when the parent agrees with them and indulged and begrudged
other times. Maybe this one thing is the only rule you have and the
rest of your hours are about supporting his needs however you can. One
rule is not likely to chip at the relationship. But if there are other
areas you've drawn a line you don't feel comfortable for him to cross,
each will chip a bit more. As independence pulls at him as he gets
older, even as soon as 16, you might feel the strain and him pulling
away.
Maybe it won't happen. Some kids are compliant. Some kids feel
comforted by rules that set how their world works. I was that way. But
it's also less likely you'll have the close, trusting, respectful
relationship long time radical unschoolers have with their kid even
through the teen years.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On May 5, 2010, at 3:13 PM, Karen Swanay wrote:
common courtesy ;-) Or "behavior generally agreed to make sense."
While people use the word rule to encompass different meanings, its
main connotation is a requirement imposed because people won't do it
unless made to. Courtesy is something people want to do. If you store
common courtesy in the same box as imposed requirements, it's easy to
slip into reacting to them with the most common understanding of the
word rule.
The environment around rules is about power, authority and obedience.
Once someone has seen enough "forgetting" (real or feigned) it's
treated the same as rule breaking. Someone's desire to follow the rule
or break it is irrelevant because the goal is obedience not getting
people to want to do it.
But if we trust kids want to be kind, then it's easier to see their
slips as either mistakes or they don't yet have the ability to do it
on their own and need help. We don't need rules, then. We have
accepted truths or natural limitations and the goal is creative ways
to meet needs within those boundaries.
That's why the single word reminder when a kid forgets works better
than an explanation or punishment. Kids naturally want to not hurt
people and things. What gives parents the idea that kids are selfish
and don't care is that conventional parenting is rife with disrespect
for kids. And it isn't until someone is immersed in the discussions of
how to live respectfully with kids that how much of conventional
parenting is disrespectful. It's chock full of practices that an adult
would never do to another adult they cared about because they'd know
it would damage the relationship. But the practices are accepted as
necessary to raise kids.
It isn't until someone steps well back from conventional parenting
that they can see the disrespect and how senseless it is to expect
kids to not react negatively. The focus of conventional parenting is
molding the child into who the parent believes they should be. In the
best parents the molding is subtle stuff, like getting the child to
respond politely, stick with a task, not hit and so on. But from the
child's point of view it's not different than if a husband were
constantly nudging his wife to be "better", eg, more in keeping with
his ideal of what a wife should be rather than honoring her for who
she is and trusting she wants to be the best she can be.
With unschooling the focus is on accepting that kids want to do their
best and if they're hurting someone it's because they need help. Not
lectures to be told what's right. But help. The solution might be
removing the child from the situation until they're old enough. (Like
staying away from the street until a child can understand the dangers
of moving cars.) It might be mom doing whatever it is until the child
can do it. (Like saying thank you until the child is ready.) It might
mean removing the privilege of staying up late until a child can
consistently allow others to sleep.
That last is a bit confusing! It sounds like conventional rule based
parenting but it will feel different to an unschooled child. An
unschooled child knows mom and dad are on his team and will help him
find ways for him to meet his needs. An unschooled child feels
respected for who he is and trusted that he wants to be kind and
respectful. (Not the fake respect of conventional parenting given when
a child is conforming to a parent's expectations.) Those two factors
make "If you want to stay up you need to be quiet" come across as a
trust with a new responsibility rather than being given an entitled
freedom that the parent might jerk back when the parent is angry.
That shift in feel doesn't come instantly! ;-) After 10 years of
control, a parent can't just tell a child they respect and trust them
and not expect the child to think "Whoo! Freedom! I'm the boss now! I
can do anything I want!" That child is far less likely to respect
others' feelings because his have been trampled on for the parents'
convenience.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> The only rule weIt might be better -- for clarity of thought -- if it's seen just as
> have re: sleep is that if they want to be up all night that's fine
> but when
> sister goes to bed at 8:30-9pm and we go to bed 9-10 pm then any
> bickering
> they want to do better be quiet bickering. NO YELLING. That's it. And
> that's just common courtesy.
common courtesy ;-) Or "behavior generally agreed to make sense."
While people use the word rule to encompass different meanings, its
main connotation is a requirement imposed because people won't do it
unless made to. Courtesy is something people want to do. If you store
common courtesy in the same box as imposed requirements, it's easy to
slip into reacting to them with the most common understanding of the
word rule.
The environment around rules is about power, authority and obedience.
Once someone has seen enough "forgetting" (real or feigned) it's
treated the same as rule breaking. Someone's desire to follow the rule
or break it is irrelevant because the goal is obedience not getting
people to want to do it.
But if we trust kids want to be kind, then it's easier to see their
slips as either mistakes or they don't yet have the ability to do it
on their own and need help. We don't need rules, then. We have
accepted truths or natural limitations and the goal is creative ways
to meet needs within those boundaries.
That's why the single word reminder when a kid forgets works better
than an explanation or punishment. Kids naturally want to not hurt
people and things. What gives parents the idea that kids are selfish
and don't care is that conventional parenting is rife with disrespect
for kids. And it isn't until someone is immersed in the discussions of
how to live respectfully with kids that how much of conventional
parenting is disrespectful. It's chock full of practices that an adult
would never do to another adult they cared about because they'd know
it would damage the relationship. But the practices are accepted as
necessary to raise kids.
It isn't until someone steps well back from conventional parenting
that they can see the disrespect and how senseless it is to expect
kids to not react negatively. The focus of conventional parenting is
molding the child into who the parent believes they should be. In the
best parents the molding is subtle stuff, like getting the child to
respond politely, stick with a task, not hit and so on. But from the
child's point of view it's not different than if a husband were
constantly nudging his wife to be "better", eg, more in keeping with
his ideal of what a wife should be rather than honoring her for who
she is and trusting she wants to be the best she can be.
With unschooling the focus is on accepting that kids want to do their
best and if they're hurting someone it's because they need help. Not
lectures to be told what's right. But help. The solution might be
removing the child from the situation until they're old enough. (Like
staying away from the street until a child can understand the dangers
of moving cars.) It might be mom doing whatever it is until the child
can do it. (Like saying thank you until the child is ready.) It might
mean removing the privilege of staying up late until a child can
consistently allow others to sleep.
That last is a bit confusing! It sounds like conventional rule based
parenting but it will feel different to an unschooled child. An
unschooled child knows mom and dad are on his team and will help him
find ways for him to meet his needs. An unschooled child feels
respected for who he is and trusted that he wants to be kind and
respectful. (Not the fake respect of conventional parenting given when
a child is conforming to a parent's expectations.) Those two factors
make "If you want to stay up you need to be quiet" come across as a
trust with a new responsibility rather than being given an entitled
freedom that the parent might jerk back when the parent is angry.
That shift in feel doesn't come instantly! ;-) After 10 years of
control, a parent can't just tell a child they respect and trust them
and not expect the child to think "Whoo! Freedom! I'm the boss now! I
can do anything I want!" That child is far less likely to respect
others' feelings because his have been trampled on for the parents'
convenience.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Karen Swanay
Ah your are right...even when I think I've shed most of the conventional
parenting, the lingo is still there. The fact s sometimes there is yelling
and they are reminded it's night and the rest of us need sleep and then they
are quiet and that happens VERY rarely now. They just needed help with it
in the beginning. So it's not a rule it's just the way we live to be nice
to each other. They are sleeping now and I don't do anything to wake them.
Thanks Joyce!
Karen
"Correlation does not imply causation."
"If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a
nail." Abraham Maslow
parenting, the lingo is still there. The fact s sometimes there is yelling
and they are reminded it's night and the rest of us need sleep and then they
are quiet and that happens VERY rarely now. They just needed help with it
in the beginning. So it's not a rule it's just the way we live to be nice
to each other. They are sleeping now and I don't do anything to wake them.
Thanks Joyce!
Karen
"Correlation does not imply causation."
"If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a
nail." Abraham Maslow
On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 8:09 AM, Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...>wrote:
>
>
>
> On May 5, 2010, at 3:13 PM, Karen Swanay wrote:
>
> > The only rule we
> > have re: sleep is that if they want to be up all night that's fine
> > but when
> > sister goes to bed at 8:30-9pm and we go to bed 9-10 pm then any
> > bickering
> > they want to do better be quiet bickering. NO YELLING. That's it. And
> > that's just common courtesy.
>
> It might be better -- for clarity of thought -- if it's seen just as
> common courtesy ;-) Or "behavior generally agreed to make sense."
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], S <seated_in_heavenlies@...> wrote:
My stepson, Ray, lived with his bio-mom for a few years, and came back to live in our unschooling home when he was 13 - that was pretty intimidating! All of a sudden I had a teenage boy! Yikes! And he wanted to play games online all night long - double yikes! So for starters, we talked about spam and filters and viruses and blockers. We talked about the hassle of dealing with sites sending us junk we didn't want and solutions to that - everthing from new and better firewalls and filters and how to have a sense of which sites are okay and which to avoid. Somewhere in there the subject of porn came up, because some of Those sites are all about sending gunk to other computers. We didn't say "no", we said "safe is good" and let him know we trusted him to maintain the integrity of the computer (and he found some great new resources for spyware in the process...he's so cool).
We also got interested in what he was looking at online - and most of it, at first, was gaming: Runescape, one of the big multi-player games. We (my partner and I) started playing, too, so that we could know what that was all about - the game part *and* the social part. We discovered that Ray was pretty good at spotting "trolls" - adults pretending to be kids or men pretending to be women - and found them annoying. He didn't Need some strange grown-up to give him a sense of freedom and importance, he had two grown-ups in his new home who were treating him with respect. That whole concern turned out to be a non-issue.
But he's a teenage boy! So what about the porn? He's discrete. He has no interest in his little sister or anyone else seeing what he likes to look at for fun - that's his private, personal business. He erases his history, and he's careful. He doesn't want a ton of sex pop-ups showing up on the computer any more than the rest of us! At one point we were letting a neighbor use our computer and Ray complained that the guy *wasn't* erasing his history when he went to porn sites - complained in a big, angry way about it, about the sites being disrespectful to women and offensive. We banned the neighbor from our computer, but at the same time, it turned out to be one of those times when a potentially icky experience is really good in parenting terms. We learned a whoooooole lot about what Ray really thinks about porn without ever crossing over into his personal business. He's not interested in "offensive and disrespectful to women". That's awesome!
There's more on the subject of internet security in general and porn in particular here:
http://sandradodd.com/sex
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
>> Our son is now 14, so my husband and I allow him to stay up after weIt can be useful to think about the reasons behind those kinds of rules - because really its the reason that you want your kid to learn, right? And I'm betting with "no internet without parents" the reasons have to do with internet security. Have you talked about that at all? My 8yo already knows that some sites will send popups and viruses just from poking around, looking for new games sites. We didn't have to have a discussion about porn or internet stalkers for her to "get" the idea that not all parts of the internet are "safe". That knowledge will expand as she gets older and her idea of safe/not safe grows with her.
> go to bed if he wants to occasionally but the modem for the internet
> is turned off.
My stepson, Ray, lived with his bio-mom for a few years, and came back to live in our unschooling home when he was 13 - that was pretty intimidating! All of a sudden I had a teenage boy! Yikes! And he wanted to play games online all night long - double yikes! So for starters, we talked about spam and filters and viruses and blockers. We talked about the hassle of dealing with sites sending us junk we didn't want and solutions to that - everthing from new and better firewalls and filters and how to have a sense of which sites are okay and which to avoid. Somewhere in there the subject of porn came up, because some of Those sites are all about sending gunk to other computers. We didn't say "no", we said "safe is good" and let him know we trusted him to maintain the integrity of the computer (and he found some great new resources for spyware in the process...he's so cool).
We also got interested in what he was looking at online - and most of it, at first, was gaming: Runescape, one of the big multi-player games. We (my partner and I) started playing, too, so that we could know what that was all about - the game part *and* the social part. We discovered that Ray was pretty good at spotting "trolls" - adults pretending to be kids or men pretending to be women - and found them annoying. He didn't Need some strange grown-up to give him a sense of freedom and importance, he had two grown-ups in his new home who were treating him with respect. That whole concern turned out to be a non-issue.
But he's a teenage boy! So what about the porn? He's discrete. He has no interest in his little sister or anyone else seeing what he likes to look at for fun - that's his private, personal business. He erases his history, and he's careful. He doesn't want a ton of sex pop-ups showing up on the computer any more than the rest of us! At one point we were letting a neighbor use our computer and Ray complained that the guy *wasn't* erasing his history when he went to porn sites - complained in a big, angry way about it, about the sites being disrespectful to women and offensive. We banned the neighbor from our computer, but at the same time, it turned out to be one of those times when a potentially icky experience is really good in parenting terms. We learned a whoooooole lot about what Ray really thinks about porn without ever crossing over into his personal business. He's not interested in "offensive and disrespectful to women". That's awesome!
There's more on the subject of internet security in general and porn in particular here:
http://sandradodd.com/sex
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)