i'm having a hard time
b prince
I've only been deschooling/unschooling since February. I've actually done some reading but am still unclear on where the line between deschooling and unschooling is. My girls were always homeschooled, but I was pretty strict about all the workbook stuff. They learned to hate learning, and I never wanted that. I've tried to let them be since Feb., but it is not easy. I still fall back into the school thinking very easily. I've kept most of that from them, but not all.
Lately, my family (we live with them and can't see this changing any time soon) has noticed that I haven't been "doing school" with them. I have tried explaining that we are approaching learning differently because I want them to enjoy it and see that they can learn things as they want. That has not gone over no matter how many times I've used that approach. Instead, today I was told by my mom that she doesn't believe that children will naturally want to learn. She sees my children as being lazy and not learning anything. She's afraid for their future.
It's hard to continue when there is pressure like this. How can I deal with it? Which brings me back around to my original thought of when does deschooling become unschooling? Is there a difference in how each looks?
Bonni
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lately, my family (we live with them and can't see this changing any time soon) has noticed that I haven't been "doing school" with them. I have tried explaining that we are approaching learning differently because I want them to enjoy it and see that they can learn things as they want. That has not gone over no matter how many times I've used that approach. Instead, today I was told by my mom that she doesn't believe that children will naturally want to learn. She sees my children as being lazy and not learning anything. She's afraid for their future.
It's hard to continue when there is pressure like this. How can I deal with it? Which brings me back around to my original thought of when does deschooling become unschooling? Is there a difference in how each looks?
Bonni
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Stephanie Tavera
Hey Bonni,
I had these same thoughts today. My kids have been "homeschooled" for almost
3 years and they have probably done a total of 6 months of actual school
work. Its hard to be patient when all they want to do is watch The Suite
Life of Zack and Cody or play video games. I've read that you're supposed to
give you child a year of deschooling for every year they've been formal
schooling.
Its hard for my husband to understand and he doesn't like reading so I try
assure him but I have doubts too. I've also tried to let go and not let them
do chores but this has really irritated me that I have to do all of the
housework plus be their chauffeur while they sit around. <hugs>
Stephanie
I had these same thoughts today. My kids have been "homeschooled" for almost
3 years and they have probably done a total of 6 months of actual school
work. Its hard to be patient when all they want to do is watch The Suite
Life of Zack and Cody or play video games. I've read that you're supposed to
give you child a year of deschooling for every year they've been formal
schooling.
Its hard for my husband to understand and he doesn't like reading so I try
assure him but I have doubts too. I've also tried to let go and not let them
do chores but this has really irritated me that I have to do all of the
housework plus be their chauffeur while they sit around. <hugs>
Stephanie
On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 7:52 PM, b prince <flyingtwinsmom@...> wrote:
>
>
> I've only been deschooling/unschooling since February. I've actually done
> some reading but am still unclear on where the line between deschooling and
> unschooling is. My girls were always homeschooled, but I was pretty strict
> about all the workbook stuff. They learned to hate learning, and I never
> wanted that. I've tried to let them be since Feb., but it is not easy. I
> still fall back into the school thinking very easily. I've kept most of that
> from them, but not all.
> Lately, my family (we live with them and can't see this changing any time
> soon) has noticed that I haven't been "doing school" with them. I have tried
> explaining that we are approaching learning differently because I want them
> to enjoy it and see that they can learn things as they want. That has not
> gone over no matter how many times I've used that approach. Instead, today I
> was told by my mom that she doesn't believe that children will naturally
> want to learn. She sees my children as being lazy and not learning anything.
> She's afraid for their future.
> It's hard to continue when there is pressure like this. How can I deal with
> it? Which brings me back around to my original thought of when does
> deschooling become unschooling? Is there a difference in how each looks?
> Bonni
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Alisha Grinus
Me toooooo we have been homeschooling since aug and we haven't done much book work but we run my scentsy buisness and my jewelry craft show stuff. It's not child labor to have them learn how much it costs to make something make it then sell it. And it seems like we spend alot of time with housecleaning then I hope we get some "schoolwork " in then they want to watch zach and Cody etc... But the actual bookwork doesn't seem to happen as much as maybe it should?????
Alisha Grinus www.Scentsy.com/redsmoon twistedsisters4jewelry.ecrater.com
Alisha Grinus www.Scentsy.com/redsmoon twistedsisters4jewelry.ecrater.com
On Apr 19, 2010, at 7:17 PM, Stephanie Tavera <lilmamibella@...> wrote:
Hey Bonni,
I had these same thoughts today. My kids have been "homeschooled" for almost
3 years and they have probably done a total of 6 months of actual school
work. Its hard to be patient when all they want to do is watch The Suite
Life of Zack and Cody or play video games. I've read that you're supposed to
give you child a year of deschooling for every year they've been formal
schooling.
Its hard for my husband to understand and he doesn't like reading so I try
assure him but I have doubts too. I've also tried to let go and not let them
do chores but this has really irritated me that I have to do all of the
housework plus be their chauffeur while they sit around. <hugs>
Stephanie
On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 7:52 PM, b prince <flyingtwinsmom@...> wrote:
I've only been deschooling/unschooling since February. I've actually done
some reading but am still unclear on where the line between deschooling and
unschooling is. My girls were always homeschooled, but I was pretty strict
about all the workbook stuff. They learned to hate learning, and I never
wanted that. I've tried to let them be since Feb., but it is not easy. I
still fall back into the school thinking very easily. I've kept most of that
from them, but not all.
Lately, my family (we live with them and can't see this changing any time
soon) has noticed that I haven't been "doing school" with them. I have tried
explaining that we are approaching learning differently because I want them
to enjoy it and see that they can learn things as they want. That has not
gone over no matter how many times I've used that approach. Instead, today I
was told by my mom that she doesn't believe that children will naturally
want to learn. She sees my children as being lazy and not learning anything.
She's afraid for their future.
It's hard to continue when there is pressure like this. How can I deal with
it? Which brings me back around to my original thought of when does
deschooling become unschooling? Is there a difference in how each looks?
Bonni
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
Nerida Bridgford
Stephanie,
You sound like you're in the same position I'm in. I only have the one boy
(going on 8) and all he wants to do is watch "I, Carly". Or visit friends,
but the local boys he knows are all public-schooled, and the homeschoolers
we know are all at least a half-hour drive away. I do a lot of chauffering..
My husband will NOT read anything on unschooling. He can see it's working -
the kid has learnt to read and write and continually throws out facts on
subjects I've never mentioned, but (as is happening to others) my husband
insists on using a math curriculum. Which subject does the kid hate? Math,
of course. I cannot convince my husband to just leave it, so ever few days
we have a horrible session (we had one today) where I struggle to get him to
do a few pages of math. He will take a half hour to do a problem, but if you
ask him the same problem (especially if it's put in terms of money) he just
does it in his head. My husband knows he can do this, but still insists on
the workbook stuff.
Has anyone else faced this issue and dealt with it successfully? (And yes, I
did print out the math article posted earlier - we'll see if my husband
reads it!) Oh, and yes, we too have the grandparent issue, they're always
"checking" on my son's educational progress. Usually by questioning him when
I'm not around. Luckily they don't live near us, so it doesn't happen as
much as it could!
Nerida
(I think this is my first post here. Anyone here in the Ann Arbor MI area?)
You sound like you're in the same position I'm in. I only have the one boy
(going on 8) and all he wants to do is watch "I, Carly". Or visit friends,
but the local boys he knows are all public-schooled, and the homeschoolers
we know are all at least a half-hour drive away. I do a lot of chauffering..
My husband will NOT read anything on unschooling. He can see it's working -
the kid has learnt to read and write and continually throws out facts on
subjects I've never mentioned, but (as is happening to others) my husband
insists on using a math curriculum. Which subject does the kid hate? Math,
of course. I cannot convince my husband to just leave it, so ever few days
we have a horrible session (we had one today) where I struggle to get him to
do a few pages of math. He will take a half hour to do a problem, but if you
ask him the same problem (especially if it's put in terms of money) he just
does it in his head. My husband knows he can do this, but still insists on
the workbook stuff.
Has anyone else faced this issue and dealt with it successfully? (And yes, I
did print out the math article posted earlier - we'll see if my husband
reads it!) Oh, and yes, we too have the grandparent issue, they're always
"checking" on my son's educational progress. Usually by questioning him when
I'm not around. Luckily they don't live near us, so it doesn't happen as
much as it could!
Nerida
(I think this is my first post here. Anyone here in the Ann Arbor MI area?)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephanie Tavera" <lilmamibella@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] i'm having a hard time
> Hey Bonni,
> I had these same thoughts today. My kids have been "homeschooled" for
> almost
> 3 years and they have probably done a total of 6 months of actual school
> work. Its hard to be patient when all they want to do is watch The Suite
> Life of Zack and Cody or play video games. I've read that you're supposed
> to
> give you child a year of deschooling for every year they've been formal
> schooling.
> Its hard for my husband to understand and he doesn't like reading so I try
> assure him but I have doubts too. I've also tried to let go and not let
> them
> do chores but this has really irritated me that I have to do all of the
> housework plus be their chauffeur while they sit around. <hugs>
>
> Stephanie
>
> On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 7:52 PM, b prince <flyingtwinsmom@...>
> wrote:
>
>> I've only been deschooling/unschooling since February. I've actually done
>> some reading but am still unclear on where the line between deschooling
>> and
>> unschooling is. My girls were always homeschooled, but I was pretty
>> strict
>> about all the workbook stuff. They learned to hate learning, and I never
>> wanted that. I've tried to let them be since Feb., but it is not easy. I
>> still fall back into the school thinking very easily. I've kept most of
>> that
>> from them, but not all.
>> Lately, my family (we live with them and can't see this changing any time
>> soon) has noticed that I haven't been "doing school" with them. I have
>> tried
>> explaining that we are approaching learning differently because I want
>> them
>> to enjoy it and see that they can learn things as they want. That has not
>> gone over no matter how many times I've used that approach. Instead,
>> today I
>> was told by my mom that she doesn't believe that children will naturally
>> want to learn. She sees my children as being lazy and not learning
>> anything.
>> She's afraid for their future.
>> It's hard to continue when there is pressure like this. How can I deal
>> with
>> it? Which brings me back around to my original thought of when does
>> deschooling become unschooling? Is there a difference in how each looks?
>> Bonni
>>
Schuyler
My two were unschooled from the off, so deschooling hasn't been a part of the fabric of our lives, but we have down periods, slow periods, periods where what is going on is far, far below the surface and may look like a lot of idleness from the outside. Like the period right before a growth spurt, I suppose, lots of intake but very little going out until suddenly, whoosh, a few inches taller.
Have you ever had the flu? And you feel like you are finally done, all better, no longer snuffling and sniffling and vomitting or whatever, but you are really emotionally sensitive? You cry over the stupidest ads on television, or a paragraph in a book that would never have made you tear up usually, and you find yourself swallowing back the tears? It's called post-flu malaise. I think post-school might be kind of like that. You've suffered a series of intellectual insults and even though they've stopped, the idea of doing anything that had been required of you for no reason, none of the gains that school sort of offered like good grades or being allowed to be on a football team or whatever, well it is so not appealling. And then one day, your mom offers to go the science museum and play with the electrical currents or see how high and hard you have to jump to get the seismograph to respond and that sounds cool. Not like it did a few weeks back. Or the
thought of coming in to the kitchen and seeing what happens when you put food colouring in milk and then add a couple drops of dishwashing detergent doesn't make you think of some kind of horrible forced march, but instead you are curious, you want to see and more than that, you want to hold on to the cool colour swirls by capturing them on paper towels. That's when deschooling becomes unschooling. That point at which going and doing something which may have otherwise felt like school now feels like exploring the world.
One of the things that can help to make that happen is if you hang out with them and watch the shows they are watching. And talk about things if they are open to talking about things. Talk about why on earth it is that Zach's and Cody's mom is such a killjoy or why Raven's friends like her when she is so dismissive of their needs and perspectives or whatever else it is that strikes your fancy on a given day of watching television. Make good finger foods and bring drinks and hang out with them and see what it is that those shows are adding to their lives. Listen to them talk about the relationships between people, think about what they are obviously learning. And dance to Phineas and Ferb, I love Phineas and Ferb. And shout "Aye Aye Captain" with the Captain on Spongebob Squarepants. Make this period of relaxing back into a more normal life a time of you reaching out to meet them where they are instead of you waiting around for them to finally get over
school and be ready to do the things that you think they ought to be doing.
And maybe talk to your mom about deschooling. Living with someone who isn't that keen on what you are offering must be very difficult. Do the research, find pages on sandradodd.com or joyfullyrejoycing or within this list that you know will speak to her fears and concerns and print them out and offer them to her so she can see more of your perspective, your thinking. My dad has never agreed with what we do, but he has always believed that we researched it mightily and are totally commited to our children's wellbeing. Talk about what made you change your mind, remind her of the disconnect you saw your children having. It helps to always remember that she, too, is concerned about your children's wellbeing.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: b prince <flyingtwinsmom@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, 20 April, 2010 0:52:58
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] i'm having a hard time
I've only been deschooling/unschooling since February. I've actually done some reading but am still unclear on where the line between deschooling and unschooling is. My girls were always homeschooled, but I was pretty strict about all the workbook stuff. They learned to hate learning, and I never wanted that. I've tried to let them be since Feb., but it is not easy. I still fall back into the school thinking very easily. I've kept most of that from them, but not all.
Lately, my family (we live with them and can't see this changing any time soon) has noticed that I haven't been "doing school" with them. I have tried explaining that we are approaching learning differently because I want them to enjoy it and see that they can learn things as they want. That has not gone over no matter how many times I've used that approach. Instead, today I was told by my mom that she doesn't believe that children will naturally want to learn. She sees my children as being lazy and not learning anything. She's afraid for their future.
It's hard to continue when there is pressure like this. How can I deal with it? Which brings me back around to my original thought of when does deschooling become unschooling? Is there a difference in how each looks?
Bonni
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have you ever had the flu? And you feel like you are finally done, all better, no longer snuffling and sniffling and vomitting or whatever, but you are really emotionally sensitive? You cry over the stupidest ads on television, or a paragraph in a book that would never have made you tear up usually, and you find yourself swallowing back the tears? It's called post-flu malaise. I think post-school might be kind of like that. You've suffered a series of intellectual insults and even though they've stopped, the idea of doing anything that had been required of you for no reason, none of the gains that school sort of offered like good grades or being allowed to be on a football team or whatever, well it is so not appealling. And then one day, your mom offers to go the science museum and play with the electrical currents or see how high and hard you have to jump to get the seismograph to respond and that sounds cool. Not like it did a few weeks back. Or the
thought of coming in to the kitchen and seeing what happens when you put food colouring in milk and then add a couple drops of dishwashing detergent doesn't make you think of some kind of horrible forced march, but instead you are curious, you want to see and more than that, you want to hold on to the cool colour swirls by capturing them on paper towels. That's when deschooling becomes unschooling. That point at which going and doing something which may have otherwise felt like school now feels like exploring the world.
One of the things that can help to make that happen is if you hang out with them and watch the shows they are watching. And talk about things if they are open to talking about things. Talk about why on earth it is that Zach's and Cody's mom is such a killjoy or why Raven's friends like her when she is so dismissive of their needs and perspectives or whatever else it is that strikes your fancy on a given day of watching television. Make good finger foods and bring drinks and hang out with them and see what it is that those shows are adding to their lives. Listen to them talk about the relationships between people, think about what they are obviously learning. And dance to Phineas and Ferb, I love Phineas and Ferb. And shout "Aye Aye Captain" with the Captain on Spongebob Squarepants. Make this period of relaxing back into a more normal life a time of you reaching out to meet them where they are instead of you waiting around for them to finally get over
school and be ready to do the things that you think they ought to be doing.
And maybe talk to your mom about deschooling. Living with someone who isn't that keen on what you are offering must be very difficult. Do the research, find pages on sandradodd.com or joyfullyrejoycing or within this list that you know will speak to her fears and concerns and print them out and offer them to her so she can see more of your perspective, your thinking. My dad has never agreed with what we do, but he has always believed that we researched it mightily and are totally commited to our children's wellbeing. Talk about what made you change your mind, remind her of the disconnect you saw your children having. It helps to always remember that she, too, is concerned about your children's wellbeing.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: b prince <flyingtwinsmom@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, 20 April, 2010 0:52:58
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] i'm having a hard time
I've only been deschooling/unschooling since February. I've actually done some reading but am still unclear on where the line between deschooling and unschooling is. My girls were always homeschooled, but I was pretty strict about all the workbook stuff. They learned to hate learning, and I never wanted that. I've tried to let them be since Feb., but it is not easy. I still fall back into the school thinking very easily. I've kept most of that from them, but not all.
Lately, my family (we live with them and can't see this changing any time soon) has noticed that I haven't been "doing school" with them. I have tried explaining that we are approaching learning differently because I want them to enjoy it and see that they can learn things as they want. That has not gone over no matter how many times I've used that approach. Instead, today I was told by my mom that she doesn't believe that children will naturally want to learn. She sees my children as being lazy and not learning anything. She's afraid for their future.
It's hard to continue when there is pressure like this. How can I deal with it? Which brings me back around to my original thought of when does deschooling become unschooling? Is there a difference in how each looks?
Bonni
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
Does math trip a switch for him because it is something he struggles with? My dad once told me that whenever he balances his checkbook he remembers learning his times table as a boy at school. I've never used a times table when balancing a checkbook, and actually, I don't have a checkbook anymore. But it was a story he told because he didn't want Simon to struggle without the ability to add or subtract or multiply and divide because we weren't teaching him, through rote memorization, those skills. He even sent flashcards. I think I still have them. I loved putting them in order, you know 1x1=1, 1x2=2, 1x3=3, 1x4=4 because that was the epiphany for me, seeing that it was additive, that there was a pattern.
When Simon was 4 or 5 he loved typing math problems out on my old typewriter. He'd ask me for numbers and I'd give them to him and he'd write out 6 + 7 = 13. He hasn't done that for a long time now, but I bet I still have pages of those self-created math worksheets. Dad is afraid of math in his own life and he really believes that without a memorized to death understanding of the times tables he wouldn't be able to cope with the simplest of equations. But I had sat with Simon predicting his score while he played Asterix and Obelix on the computer where you could get multipliers for damage, so if you got 10 multipliers, every point of damage you did garnered you 10x the points. So what would normally only get you 5 points would get you 50 and Simon, at 5 or 6 was absolutely grasping that relationship without a moment of study.
It is hard when you know that something has been lacking in your own life, or pivotally important, to not want to take the steps that you believe are necessary to make sure that your children fathom it. But, maybe, if you can talk to him about his fears, and not be defensive or angry, and totally listen you can work out something other than worksheets that make your son so unhappy to help to allay his fears.
Schuyler
________________________________
My husband will NOT read anything on unschooling. He can see it's working -
the kid has learnt to read and write and continually throws out facts on
subjects I've never mentioned, but (as is happening to others) my husband
insists on using a math curriculum. Which subject does the kid hate? Math,
of course. I cannot convince my husband to just leave it, so ever few days
we have a horrible session (we had one today) where I struggle to get him to
do a few pages of math. He will take a half hour to do a problem, but if you
ask him the same problem (especially if it's put in terms of money) he just
does it in his head. My husband knows he can do this, but still insists on
the workbook stuff.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
When Simon was 4 or 5 he loved typing math problems out on my old typewriter. He'd ask me for numbers and I'd give them to him and he'd write out 6 + 7 = 13. He hasn't done that for a long time now, but I bet I still have pages of those self-created math worksheets. Dad is afraid of math in his own life and he really believes that without a memorized to death understanding of the times tables he wouldn't be able to cope with the simplest of equations. But I had sat with Simon predicting his score while he played Asterix and Obelix on the computer where you could get multipliers for damage, so if you got 10 multipliers, every point of damage you did garnered you 10x the points. So what would normally only get you 5 points would get you 50 and Simon, at 5 or 6 was absolutely grasping that relationship without a moment of study.
It is hard when you know that something has been lacking in your own life, or pivotally important, to not want to take the steps that you believe are necessary to make sure that your children fathom it. But, maybe, if you can talk to him about his fears, and not be defensive or angry, and totally listen you can work out something other than worksheets that make your son so unhappy to help to allay his fears.
Schuyler
________________________________
My husband will NOT read anything on unschooling. He can see it's working -
the kid has learnt to read and write and continually throws out facts on
subjects I've never mentioned, but (as is happening to others) my husband
insists on using a math curriculum. Which subject does the kid hate? Math,
of course. I cannot convince my husband to just leave it, so ever few days
we have a horrible session (we had one today) where I struggle to get him to
do a few pages of math. He will take a half hour to do a problem, but if you
ask him the same problem (especially if it's put in terms of money) he just
does it in his head. My husband knows he can do this, but still insists on
the workbook stuff.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
Your children help you run a business and you don't think they are doing the equivalent of schoolwork? Really? You don't see how they are learning a huge swath of what the whole school system is set up to instill through hypothetical instances in their own practical and hands on lives? Really?
Schoolwork is not a part of unschooling. Bookwork doesn't have a should requirement within unschooling. There is no level at which it is complete or begun for the day. Two days ago Simon asked me to show him a Japanese language webpage I'd found earlier, he learned a few words and shared them with Linnaea and David and I and then he did something else. Linnaea is currently writing a lot at Roblox. She is on a list for the Warrior Cats and she's doing a lot of cooperative story writing. It isn't bookwork, it's her own desire. She's illustrating her character creation as well, and yesterday spent a long time drawing a cat in paint to match one of her cats on the Thunderclan list.
Engagement is a part of unschooling. Hanging out with your kids, not doing work, not doing housecleaning, but hanging out and playing and talking and doing things that interest them, those are big parts of unschooling. If that isn't a part of your day-to-day living then the unschooling isn't happening. Getting them to meet your needs isn't a big part of unschooling, figuring out ways to meet their needs, huge part of unschooling.
Schuyler
________________________________
Me toooooo we have been homeschooling since aug and we haven't done much book work but we run my scentsy buisness and my jewelry craft show stuff. It's not child labor to have them learn how much it costs to make something make it then sell it. And it seems like we spend alot of time with housecleaning then I hope we get some "schoolwork " in then they want to watch zach and Cody etc... But the actual bookwork doesn't seem to happen as much as maybe it should?????
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schoolwork is not a part of unschooling. Bookwork doesn't have a should requirement within unschooling. There is no level at which it is complete or begun for the day. Two days ago Simon asked me to show him a Japanese language webpage I'd found earlier, he learned a few words and shared them with Linnaea and David and I and then he did something else. Linnaea is currently writing a lot at Roblox. She is on a list for the Warrior Cats and she's doing a lot of cooperative story writing. It isn't bookwork, it's her own desire. She's illustrating her character creation as well, and yesterday spent a long time drawing a cat in paint to match one of her cats on the Thunderclan list.
Engagement is a part of unschooling. Hanging out with your kids, not doing work, not doing housecleaning, but hanging out and playing and talking and doing things that interest them, those are big parts of unschooling. If that isn't a part of your day-to-day living then the unschooling isn't happening. Getting them to meet your needs isn't a big part of unschooling, figuring out ways to meet their needs, huge part of unschooling.
Schuyler
________________________________
Me toooooo we have been homeschooling since aug and we haven't done much book work but we run my scentsy buisness and my jewelry craft show stuff. It's not child labor to have them learn how much it costs to make something make it then sell it. And it seems like we spend alot of time with housecleaning then I hope we get some "schoolwork " in then they want to watch zach and Cody etc... But the actual bookwork doesn't seem to happen as much as maybe it should?????
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
There seem to be a lot of people writing about their school desires for their children right now. Unschooling isn't about schooling. It's about a basic belief and trust that part of being human is wanting to explore the world you live in. Learning is a byproduct of exploration.
Pam Sorooshian has written that when she doubted that unschooling was working she kept a journal of all that they did, all that they discussed over the course of a few weeks. And she was stunned. So much learning was going on, so much information was being discussed and derived and disseminated, that she just couldn't doubt the efficacy of unschooling. Maybe that would help you to see what all they are learning and doing in the things you are dismissing. The Suite Life of Zach and Cody is very interesting in its caricatures of people that it creates. In the novel ways that the two boys invariably get into trouble. The suggestible of one versus the conniving of the other. If you approach Zach and Cody with an understanding that there must be value in it if your children find it valuable than you might find things to fascinate you as well. Video games, I can't even begin, or end, thinking about how amazing video games are. Just yesterday Simon was playing
with a step-cousin he's never met. The connection, the social lives, the story-telling, the level grinding, the focus, the reading, the math, the, the, the,....
You write "it's hard to be patient..." what are you waiting for? What do you think learning will look like if you wait long enough. They are learning right now, all the time, and they are exploring the world so intensely. Get in there, don't wait, do with them, be with them. And be proactive about describing what you are seeing so that your husband doesn't feel so afraid. Find the moments that can illustrate the days when he isn't home. Talk about the discussions you've had, the ideas they've brought up, the things you've done. And write them all down. See the learning that is inherent in their lives. Really see it.
Schuyler
________________________________
I had these same thoughts today. My kids have been "homeschooled" for almost
3 years and they have probably done a total of 6 months of actual school
work. Its hard to be patient when all they want to do is watch The Suite
Life of Zack and Cody or play video games. I've read that you're supposed to
give you child a year of deschooling for every year they've been formal
schooling.
Its hard for my husband to understand and he doesn't like reading so I try
assure him but I have doubts too. I've also tried to let go and not let them
do chores but this has really irritated me that I have to do all of the
housework plus be their chauffeur while they sit around. <hugs>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian has written that when she doubted that unschooling was working she kept a journal of all that they did, all that they discussed over the course of a few weeks. And she was stunned. So much learning was going on, so much information was being discussed and derived and disseminated, that she just couldn't doubt the efficacy of unschooling. Maybe that would help you to see what all they are learning and doing in the things you are dismissing. The Suite Life of Zach and Cody is very interesting in its caricatures of people that it creates. In the novel ways that the two boys invariably get into trouble. The suggestible of one versus the conniving of the other. If you approach Zach and Cody with an understanding that there must be value in it if your children find it valuable than you might find things to fascinate you as well. Video games, I can't even begin, or end, thinking about how amazing video games are. Just yesterday Simon was playing
with a step-cousin he's never met. The connection, the social lives, the story-telling, the level grinding, the focus, the reading, the math, the, the, the,....
You write "it's hard to be patient..." what are you waiting for? What do you think learning will look like if you wait long enough. They are learning right now, all the time, and they are exploring the world so intensely. Get in there, don't wait, do with them, be with them. And be proactive about describing what you are seeing so that your husband doesn't feel so afraid. Find the moments that can illustrate the days when he isn't home. Talk about the discussions you've had, the ideas they've brought up, the things you've done. And write them all down. See the learning that is inherent in their lives. Really see it.
Schuyler
________________________________
I had these same thoughts today. My kids have been "homeschooled" for almost
3 years and they have probably done a total of 6 months of actual school
work. Its hard to be patient when all they want to do is watch The Suite
Life of Zack and Cody or play video games. I've read that you're supposed to
give you child a year of deschooling for every year they've been formal
schooling.
Its hard for my husband to understand and he doesn't like reading so I try
assure him but I have doubts too. I've also tried to let go and not let them
do chores but this has really irritated me that I have to do all of the
housework plus be their chauffeur while they sit around. <hugs>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Apr 20, 2010, at 4:04 AM, Schuyler wrote:
reason schools use school work isn't because it's the best way to
learn. It is in fact a very poor wary to learn. It's because it's a
cheap way to provide mass education (only 1 teacher for 30 kids) and
it provides data to show progress. Learning happens -- nearly always
better --- without either. School learning is a huge compromise on how
people naturally learn because schools need proof something's
happening. School learning is hard not because it's superior but
because it doesn't work very well.
Two pages that might help are:
Why You Can't Let Go
http://sandradodd.com/joyce/talk
Products of Education
http://sandradodd.com/joyce/products
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Schoolwork is not a part of unschooling.School work isn't even part of life until school is brought in. The
reason schools use school work isn't because it's the best way to
learn. It is in fact a very poor wary to learn. It's because it's a
cheap way to provide mass education (only 1 teacher for 30 kids) and
it provides data to show progress. Learning happens -- nearly always
better --- without either. School learning is a huge compromise on how
people naturally learn because schools need proof something's
happening. School learning is hard not because it's superior but
because it doesn't work very well.
Two pages that might help are:
Why You Can't Let Go
http://sandradodd.com/joyce/talk
Products of Education
http://sandradodd.com/joyce/products
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
In unschooling bookword should only be done if the child initiates it and wants it.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
________________________________
From: Alisha Grinus <redsrandigene2@...>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Mon, April 19, 2010 7:32:58 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] i'm having a hard time
Me toooooo we have been homeschooling since aug and we haven't done much book work but we run my scentsy buisness and my jewelry craft show stuff. It's not child labor to have them learn how much it costs to make something make it then sell it. And it seems like we spend alot of time with housecleaning then I hope we get some "schoolwork " in then they want to watch zach and Cody etc... But the actual bookwork doesn't seem to happen as much as maybe it should?????
Alisha Grinus www.Scentsy. com/redsmoon twistedsisters4jewe lry.ecrater. com
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
________________________________
From: Alisha Grinus <redsrandigene2@...>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Mon, April 19, 2010 7:32:58 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] i'm having a hard time
Me toooooo we have been homeschooling since aug and we haven't done much book work but we run my scentsy buisness and my jewelry craft show stuff. It's not child labor to have them learn how much it costs to make something make it then sell it. And it seems like we spend alot of time with housecleaning then I hope we get some "schoolwork " in then they want to watch zach and Cody etc... But the actual bookwork doesn't seem to happen as much as maybe it should?????
Alisha Grinus www.Scentsy. com/redsmoon twistedsisters4jewe lry.ecrater. com
On Apr 19, 2010, at 7:17 PM, Stephanie Tavera <lilmamibella@ gmail.com> wrote:
Hey Bonni,
I had these same thoughts today. My kids have been "homeschooled" for almost
3 years and they have probably done a total of 6 months of actual school
work. Its hard to be patient when all they want to do is watch The Suite
Life of Zack and Cody or play video games. I've read that you're supposed to
give you child a year of deschooling for every year they've been formal
schooling.
Its hard for my husband to understand and he doesn't like reading so I try
assure him but I have doubts too. I've also tried to let go and not let them
do chores but this has really irritated me that I have to do all of the
housework plus be their chauffeur while they sit around. <hugs>
Stephanie
On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 7:52 PM, b prince <flyingtwinsmom@ yahoo.com> wrote:
I've only been deschooling/ unschooling since February. I've actually done
some reading but am still unclear on where the line between deschooling and
unschooling is. My girls were always homeschooled, but I was pretty strict
about all the workbook stuff. They learned to hate learning, and I never
wanted that. I've tried to let them be since Feb., but it is not easy. I
still fall back into the school thinking very easily. I've kept most of that
from them, but not all.
Lately, my family (we live with them and can't see this changing any time
soon) has noticed that I haven't been "doing school" with them. I have tried
explaining that we are approaching learning differently because I want them
to enjoy it and see that they can learn things as they want. That has not
gone over no matter how many times I've used that approach. Instead, today I
was told by my mom that she doesn't believe that children will naturally
want to learn. She sees my children as being lazy and not learning anything.
She's afraid for their future.
It's hard to continue when there is pressure like this. How can I deal with
it? Which brings me back around to my original thought of when does
deschooling become unschooling? Is there a difference in how each looks?
Bonni
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------ --------- --------- ------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Alisha Grinus
so i am not failing at homeschooling as i thought. I was allwing them to research and learn about whatever interested them at the time and im teaching them about buisness and how to run every aspect of a home based jewelry buisness that uses upcycling as the main materials and my son the 12 year old is starting his own candy store outside after school lets out .he has seed money and needs to borrow from his sister money so i taught him about interest and loans then he researched the prices of candy and figured out the cost per each piece and how much to charge and what his profit will be. today we are going to Sams club and he is using his money to purchase his items to sell to the neighborhood children.and he even figured out he needs to pay his siblings 25cents an hour to help him.I actually taught him something that I can see.its amazing.now if only I could see it with the other 3.
Alisha Grinus
redsrandigene2@...
Alisha Grinus
redsrandigene2@...
NCMama
-=-I actually taught him something that I can see.its amazing.now if only I could see it with the other 3.-=-
It would be really helpful for unschooling if you could let go of the idea of "teaching". Yes, give information when asked, but don't feel like it's your job to fill their heads. You will be able to see the learning your other kids are doing much better once you stop believing you need to teach anything.
OK, actually - you *might not* see the learning! That's a possibility. We don't always get windows into their heads. Evan is very private and internally directed. I didn't "see" his learning very much - but I learned to trust that it was happening! We don't get to quantify what someone else might learn from an activity. When he watches TV, because he's also a visual learner, he's probably learning about the use of color to create a mood, how to manipulate cartoon facial expressions to communicate nonverbally (though I bet he also learned that from living with other humans!), how to use visual contrast, etc. I could not say 100% for sure what he was learning, and I don't have the need to. I just know: he's learning. He's 17 now, and he knows SO MUCH about so many different things - and he did at 5 and 8 and 12, too! His learning didn't look like school learning at all, natural learning does not look like school learning. We don't always get to see which bits and pieces they're picking up from which activity, nor how those bits and pieces are coming together.
Starting now, begin your "summer vacation". Give up the need to teach. *Live* with your kids, truly be *with* them. Take some deep breaths when you start thinking schooly thoughts, and don't let those turn into words or actions! And if they do, take more deep breaths and start again. Apologize when needed.
peace,
Caren
It would be really helpful for unschooling if you could let go of the idea of "teaching". Yes, give information when asked, but don't feel like it's your job to fill their heads. You will be able to see the learning your other kids are doing much better once you stop believing you need to teach anything.
OK, actually - you *might not* see the learning! That's a possibility. We don't always get windows into their heads. Evan is very private and internally directed. I didn't "see" his learning very much - but I learned to trust that it was happening! We don't get to quantify what someone else might learn from an activity. When he watches TV, because he's also a visual learner, he's probably learning about the use of color to create a mood, how to manipulate cartoon facial expressions to communicate nonverbally (though I bet he also learned that from living with other humans!), how to use visual contrast, etc. I could not say 100% for sure what he was learning, and I don't have the need to. I just know: he's learning. He's 17 now, and he knows SO MUCH about so many different things - and he did at 5 and 8 and 12, too! His learning didn't look like school learning at all, natural learning does not look like school learning. We don't always get to see which bits and pieces they're picking up from which activity, nor how those bits and pieces are coming together.
Starting now, begin your "summer vacation". Give up the need to teach. *Live* with your kids, truly be *with* them. Take some deep breaths when you start thinking schooly thoughts, and don't let those turn into words or actions! And if they do, take more deep breaths and start again. Apologize when needed.
peace,
Caren
Bun
Frank Smith's book "Learning and Forgetting" might be something helpful for to read if you get the chance. Laurie