struggling
[email protected]
So I'm still struggling with unschooling, I feel like we accomplish nothing each day, that my almost 7 yr old still can hardly read or write, yet I get not much else done around the house when I am home, I just feel like a failure and I'm frustrated. I mean if I sit and list all we do, we do a lot, I still resort to doing a few lessons just for my own peace of mind and it's a HUGE battle. I read where one of your kids actually reads VOLUNTARILY, that would be AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I look at our day, today I was off work, we get up around 9:30 or so, my daughter feeds all the cats, we have 5 week old kittens outside, so she played with them for awhile, I answered a few emails and packed some more for our upcoming Orlando trip, printed maps, etc. THen I fed the 12 month old and myself, we all played in the backyard for awhile, then my daughter wanted to paint so she did that at the table while I played with the baby, I did a few loads of laundry and threw on some dinner for later. We watched Hachi that we got at the library, then baby took a nap, so I did a few "science experiments" in the kitchen from this book I got, simple stuff, oil and water don't mix, what type of cloths soak up more water, mixing colors, etc stuff like that, then I thought, HEY great time to practice writing, hey lets make a short list of 4 items we tested........ ok that met with HUGE resistance, took her an hour to write them 4 items, by then I'm ready the throw the book across the room, or I probably did, I'm screaming, baby wakes up, super frustrated!!!! Then I say, lets just finish putting up the laundry and strraightening up some, throw a few dishes in the dish washer, then we went to McD for the tax relief day to chill out, came back, had dinner, then I gave the baby a bath, checked a few more emails, took a shower, daughter played outside some more, she helped dad do the trash an dput up a few more of her clothes. And here we are, ready to go to bed and read one some more of the AMerican girl books we've been reading for the past few months. Then she can watch some Grey's anatomy with me while falling asleep.......
But my house is still in disarray, clothes are still not all put up, laundry not finished, dishes piled up, stuff not packed, emails not all checked, bathrooms dirty, vacuum still out, baby fussy, my daughter I feel just learns next to nothing each day, I'm just frustrated.......
And I think over our week, we do alot over all,,,,,,,,, but still, days like this I mean I do like do nothing days but then I feel like I have too many do nothing days, maybe my expectations are just warped. Tomorrow is our co op, so that's a lot, she has her girl scout meeting, then a show and tell class, a bible assembly, recess time, an under the sea class, then we leave for lunch, then to a friends house for art class and playdate, then home and I head to work. This is our last co op until Sep though so that's a nice break! Yesterday I worked in the morning then we went to a horse farm for a fieldtrip/picnic for a couple hrs, horse rides, feeding animals, playing, etc.. it was fun, we came home and then I had to go pick out new glasses, stop by Walmart, stop by the library to get a few videos and books, then by then it was late, quick dinner and then read in bed, argue because at 10:00 she wanted to watch a movie and I didn't want her up until midnight as we've all got colds we need to get over, so she argued with me for almost an hr over that and again when she first woke up.........RGGGG!! BUT she did express interest in horseback riding lessons, so I'll look into that over the summer.
Tues was a do nothing day also, we did read over some of a violin book (well I read over it to her) since we just got a violin, but still we can't figure it out, need lessons, but I did find a student teacher that we can try out for awhile over the summer. We played outside, I asked her to practice reading one page in a simple book, she did. Then I showed her how to look up a few things on the computer.., then I had her practice a few basic math problems, that did ok, then later I asked her to practice writing her name and address........ that was the downfall, that took over an hour and again more frustration! And I think, I haven't even really asked her to do much of anything hardly for a week! Anyway I spent the rest of TUesday packing and taking care of the baby mostly and felt like I got nothing done. ANd Monday was pretty much the same, we ran some errands, I had a couple clients, that was it. Next week it's back to being busy at work and last week was busy, busy for me means I see about 15 clients a week. So on slow weeks like this one I wanted to feel like I accomplished more or that she's learning or progressing along with other kids who are in school or even others who are homeschooled and I feel so behind
I look at our day, today I was off work, we get up around 9:30 or so, my daughter feeds all the cats, we have 5 week old kittens outside, so she played with them for awhile, I answered a few emails and packed some more for our upcoming Orlando trip, printed maps, etc. THen I fed the 12 month old and myself, we all played in the backyard for awhile, then my daughter wanted to paint so she did that at the table while I played with the baby, I did a few loads of laundry and threw on some dinner for later. We watched Hachi that we got at the library, then baby took a nap, so I did a few "science experiments" in the kitchen from this book I got, simple stuff, oil and water don't mix, what type of cloths soak up more water, mixing colors, etc stuff like that, then I thought, HEY great time to practice writing, hey lets make a short list of 4 items we tested........ ok that met with HUGE resistance, took her an hour to write them 4 items, by then I'm ready the throw the book across the room, or I probably did, I'm screaming, baby wakes up, super frustrated!!!! Then I say, lets just finish putting up the laundry and strraightening up some, throw a few dishes in the dish washer, then we went to McD for the tax relief day to chill out, came back, had dinner, then I gave the baby a bath, checked a few more emails, took a shower, daughter played outside some more, she helped dad do the trash an dput up a few more of her clothes. And here we are, ready to go to bed and read one some more of the AMerican girl books we've been reading for the past few months. Then she can watch some Grey's anatomy with me while falling asleep.......
But my house is still in disarray, clothes are still not all put up, laundry not finished, dishes piled up, stuff not packed, emails not all checked, bathrooms dirty, vacuum still out, baby fussy, my daughter I feel just learns next to nothing each day, I'm just frustrated.......
And I think over our week, we do alot over all,,,,,,,,, but still, days like this I mean I do like do nothing days but then I feel like I have too many do nothing days, maybe my expectations are just warped. Tomorrow is our co op, so that's a lot, she has her girl scout meeting, then a show and tell class, a bible assembly, recess time, an under the sea class, then we leave for lunch, then to a friends house for art class and playdate, then home and I head to work. This is our last co op until Sep though so that's a nice break! Yesterday I worked in the morning then we went to a horse farm for a fieldtrip/picnic for a couple hrs, horse rides, feeding animals, playing, etc.. it was fun, we came home and then I had to go pick out new glasses, stop by Walmart, stop by the library to get a few videos and books, then by then it was late, quick dinner and then read in bed, argue because at 10:00 she wanted to watch a movie and I didn't want her up until midnight as we've all got colds we need to get over, so she argued with me for almost an hr over that and again when she first woke up.........RGGGG!! BUT she did express interest in horseback riding lessons, so I'll look into that over the summer.
Tues was a do nothing day also, we did read over some of a violin book (well I read over it to her) since we just got a violin, but still we can't figure it out, need lessons, but I did find a student teacher that we can try out for awhile over the summer. We played outside, I asked her to practice reading one page in a simple book, she did. Then I showed her how to look up a few things on the computer.., then I had her practice a few basic math problems, that did ok, then later I asked her to practice writing her name and address........ that was the downfall, that took over an hour and again more frustration! And I think, I haven't even really asked her to do much of anything hardly for a week! Anyway I spent the rest of TUesday packing and taking care of the baby mostly and felt like I got nothing done. ANd Monday was pretty much the same, we ran some errands, I had a couple clients, that was it. Next week it's back to being busy at work and last week was busy, busy for me means I see about 15 clients a week. So on slow weeks like this one I wanted to feel like I accomplished more or that she's learning or progressing along with other kids who are in school or even others who are homeschooled and I feel so behind
Joyce Fetteroll
On Apr 15, 2010, at 9:52 PM, kristi3003@... wrote:
Unschooling is about creating a peaceful environment for her to
explore her interests. It needs to not be about your learning comfort
because each time you get nervous and make her do school, what she's
learning isn't what you think she's learning. She's learning that
writing and reading and anything else that makes her cry or you scream
is hard and something to be avoided.
That's exactly what the kids in school are learning. That's why it
takes *years* for kids to learn simple stuff like math. That's why
teachers say kids forget everything over the summer. It's because they
aren't learning it. They're just memorizing stuff they don't care
about. If you want the same for your daughter, you could put her in
school and let someone else deal with the frustration.
If her experience with the printed word is pleasant, she will read. If
her experience with numbers is personally meaningful, she will add and
subtract and multiply. If you nurture your wonder about the world, if
share her wonder -- stop and smell the flowers! -- she will be a true
scientist,
My daughter Kathryn spent *minutes* each week with math. It looked
like video games and me answering her questions, saving to buy
something. She absorbed how numbers worked and how she could make them
tell her what she wanted to know from them.
At 7 Kathryn's writing "instruction" looked like free access to loads
of paper and writing implements. She drew pictures. Labeled them
occasionally. Drew comics. At 12 her writing looked like more comics
and the beginnings of stories. At 18 it looks like more comics and
longer stories.
I read to her for years. (I still do and she's 18 ;-) I answered her
questions. She played video games that involved the occasional word,
looked through the guides for help before she could solidly read (the
pictures were a good guide). We listened to books on tape. At some
point she could read but didn't on her own, not even the fun kids
books she liked like Captain Underpants. Then at 12 she found an adult
mystery series (one we'd heard on tape) and that's when she started
reading on her own.
(And for your and your daughter's peace of mind, you must let go of
the notion that reading can be taught. Schools are *not* teaching
reading. Teachers are going through the motions while kids brains
mature to the point where they can decode. Learning to read is exactly
like learning to walk. You can't teach a child to walk only create the
environment where they're able to walk when they're physically ready.
Schools have reading failures because kids are so demoralized at not
being able to read (when the truth is they physically can't yet and by
the time they can they are convinced they can't or hate reading so
much they don't want to.) Unschoolers don't have reading failures. We
do no instruction, we don't make our kids read and yet everyone of
them does read. (Usually 6-8 just like in schools, but for many it
takes longer for the brain to be ready. Later readers go about their
lives in peace learning in ways that are more meaningful to them until
they're ready to read. In school the kids are constantly reminded
they're failing until they're ready to read.
This should help. Do follow the links :-)
http://sandradodd.com/reading
Here's some more to read that should help you:
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
http://sandradodd.com/joyce/deschooling
Why You Can't Let Go
http://sandradodd.com/joyce/talk
"Products" of Education
http://sandradodd.com/joyce/products
As much as I love science, as much as I think experiments are cool,
they're not real science. They're going through specific steps to see
what someone else says you should see. Real science is about
observing, asking questions, theorizing, observing more to gather more
information. It's not about the answers! It's about the questions.
Though I wouldn't discourage you from looking up answers to her
questions, what will nurture the scientist in her is looking at the
world with wonder, questioning and speculating on how it could be. Get
creative too! Let your imagination free :-) Maybe fairies paint the
sky wonderful colors. Einstein said:
�Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is
limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces
the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.�
He did not come up with the theory of relativity by repeating someone
else's experiments to see what they saw ;-) He did it by freeing his
imagination and seeing the world in a way no one else had seen it
before.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I wanted to feel like I accomplished more or that she's learning orYou need to let that go. Really. Live as though school didn't exist.
> progressing along with other kids who are in school or even others
> who are homeschooled and I feel so behind
Unschooling is about creating a peaceful environment for her to
explore her interests. It needs to not be about your learning comfort
because each time you get nervous and make her do school, what she's
learning isn't what you think she's learning. She's learning that
writing and reading and anything else that makes her cry or you scream
is hard and something to be avoided.
That's exactly what the kids in school are learning. That's why it
takes *years* for kids to learn simple stuff like math. That's why
teachers say kids forget everything over the summer. It's because they
aren't learning it. They're just memorizing stuff they don't care
about. If you want the same for your daughter, you could put her in
school and let someone else deal with the frustration.
If her experience with the printed word is pleasant, she will read. If
her experience with numbers is personally meaningful, she will add and
subtract and multiply. If you nurture your wonder about the world, if
share her wonder -- stop and smell the flowers! -- she will be a true
scientist,
My daughter Kathryn spent *minutes* each week with math. It looked
like video games and me answering her questions, saving to buy
something. She absorbed how numbers worked and how she could make them
tell her what she wanted to know from them.
At 7 Kathryn's writing "instruction" looked like free access to loads
of paper and writing implements. She drew pictures. Labeled them
occasionally. Drew comics. At 12 her writing looked like more comics
and the beginnings of stories. At 18 it looks like more comics and
longer stories.
I read to her for years. (I still do and she's 18 ;-) I answered her
questions. She played video games that involved the occasional word,
looked through the guides for help before she could solidly read (the
pictures were a good guide). We listened to books on tape. At some
point she could read but didn't on her own, not even the fun kids
books she liked like Captain Underpants. Then at 12 she found an adult
mystery series (one we'd heard on tape) and that's when she started
reading on her own.
(And for your and your daughter's peace of mind, you must let go of
the notion that reading can be taught. Schools are *not* teaching
reading. Teachers are going through the motions while kids brains
mature to the point where they can decode. Learning to read is exactly
like learning to walk. You can't teach a child to walk only create the
environment where they're able to walk when they're physically ready.
Schools have reading failures because kids are so demoralized at not
being able to read (when the truth is they physically can't yet and by
the time they can they are convinced they can't or hate reading so
much they don't want to.) Unschoolers don't have reading failures. We
do no instruction, we don't make our kids read and yet everyone of
them does read. (Usually 6-8 just like in schools, but for many it
takes longer for the brain to be ready. Later readers go about their
lives in peace learning in ways that are more meaningful to them until
they're ready to read. In school the kids are constantly reminded
they're failing until they're ready to read.
This should help. Do follow the links :-)
http://sandradodd.com/reading
Here's some more to read that should help you:
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
http://sandradodd.com/joyce/deschooling
Why You Can't Let Go
http://sandradodd.com/joyce/talk
"Products" of Education
http://sandradodd.com/joyce/products
As much as I love science, as much as I think experiments are cool,
they're not real science. They're going through specific steps to see
what someone else says you should see. Real science is about
observing, asking questions, theorizing, observing more to gather more
information. It's not about the answers! It's about the questions.
Though I wouldn't discourage you from looking up answers to her
questions, what will nurture the scientist in her is looking at the
world with wonder, questioning and speculating on how it could be. Get
creative too! Let your imagination free :-) Maybe fairies paint the
sky wonderful colors. Einstein said:
�Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is
limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces
the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.�
He did not come up with the theory of relativity by repeating someone
else's experiments to see what they saw ;-) He did it by freeing his
imagination and seeing the world in a way no one else had seen it
before.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
You are not behind. Your daughter is not behind. You are tired.
Stop squeezing hours of fighting about nonsense -- schoolish stuff and movies -- into an over-booked schedule.
Hug the babies and set up a wading pool in the backyard. Sit by the pool. Really try hard to do nothing. Hint: It is impossible but maybe you will get some rest.
Enlist DH to help with some of the housework. Order pizza.
Do not spend one more ounce of energy feeling guilty.
Nance
Stop squeezing hours of fighting about nonsense -- schoolish stuff and movies -- into an over-booked schedule.
Hug the babies and set up a wading pool in the backyard. Sit by the pool. Really try hard to do nothing. Hint: It is impossible but maybe you will get some rest.
Enlist DH to help with some of the housework. Order pizza.
Do not spend one more ounce of energy feeling guilty.
Nance
--- In [email protected], "kristi3003@..." <kristi3003@...> wrote:
>
> So I'm still struggling with unschooling, I feel like we accomplish nothing each day, that my almost 7 yr old still can hardly read or write, yet I get not much else done around the house when I am home, I just feel like a failure and I'm frustrated. I mean if I sit and list all we do, we do a lot, I still resort to doing a few lessons just for my own peace of mind and it's a HUGE battle. I read where one of your kids actually reads VOLUNTARILY, that would be AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> I look at our day, today I was off work, we get up around 9:30 or so, my daughter feeds all the cats, we have 5 week old kittens outside, so she played with them for awhile, I answered a few emails and packed some more for our upcoming Orlando trip, printed maps, etc. THen I fed the 12 month old and myself, we all played in the backyard for awhile, then my daughter wanted to paint so she did that at the table while I played with the baby, I did a few loads of laundry and threw on some dinner for later. We watched Hachi that we got at the library, then baby took a nap, so I did a few "science experiments" in the kitchen from this book I got, simple stuff, oil and water don't mix, what type of cloths soak up more water, mixing colors, etc stuff like that, then I thought, HEY great time to practice writing, hey lets make a short list of 4 items we tested........ ok that met with HUGE resistance, took her an hour to write them 4 items, by then I'm ready the throw the book across the room, or I probably did, I'm screaming, baby wakes up, super frustrated!!!! Then I say, lets just finish putting up the laundry and strraightening up some, throw a few dishes in the dish washer, then we went to McD for the tax relief day to chill out, came back, had dinner, then I gave the baby a bath, checked a few more emails, took a shower, daughter played outside some more, she helped dad do the trash an dput up a few more of her clothes. And here we are, ready to go to bed and read one some more of the AMerican girl books we've been reading for the past few months. Then she can watch some Grey's anatomy with me while falling asleep.......
>
> But my house is still in disarray, clothes are still not all put up, laundry not finished, dishes piled up, stuff not packed, emails not all checked, bathrooms dirty, vacuum still out, baby fussy, my daughter I feel just learns next to nothing each day, I'm just frustrated.......
>
> And I think over our week, we do alot over all,,,,,,,,, but still, days like this I mean I do like do nothing days but then I feel like I have too many do nothing days, maybe my expectations are just warped. Tomorrow is our co op, so that's a lot, she has her girl scout meeting, then a show and tell class, a bible assembly, recess time, an under the sea class, then we leave for lunch, then to a friends house for art class and playdate, then home and I head to work. This is our last co op until Sep though so that's a nice break! Yesterday I worked in the morning then we went to a horse farm for a fieldtrip/picnic for a couple hrs, horse rides, feeding animals, playing, etc.. it was fun, we came home and then I had to go pick out new glasses, stop by Walmart, stop by the library to get a few videos and books, then by then it was late, quick dinner and then read in bed, argue because at 10:00 she wanted to watch a movie and I didn't want her up until midnight as we've all got colds we need to get over, so she argued with me for almost an hr over that and again when she first woke up.........RGGGG!! BUT she did express interest in horseback riding lessons, so I'll look into that over the summer.
>
> Tues was a do nothing day also, we did read over some of a violin book (well I read over it to her) since we just got a violin, but still we can't figure it out, need lessons, but I did find a student teacher that we can try out for awhile over the summer. We played outside, I asked her to practice reading one page in a simple book, she did. Then I showed her how to look up a few things on the computer.., then I had her practice a few basic math problems, that did ok, then later I asked her to practice writing her name and address........ that was the downfall, that took over an hour and again more frustration! And I think, I haven't even really asked her to do much of anything hardly for a week! Anyway I spent the rest of TUesday packing and taking care of the baby mostly and felt like I got nothing done. ANd Monday was pretty much the same, we ran some errands, I had a couple clients, that was it. Next week it's back to being busy at work and last week was busy, busy for me means I see about 15 clients a week. So on slow weeks like this one I wanted to feel like I accomplished more or that she's learning or progressing along with other kids who are in school or even others who are homeschooled and I feel so behind
>
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], "kristi3003@..." <kristi3003@...> wrote:
I remember homeschooling with Ray and watching his love of learning fade away until every little thing - writing a few words or even doing "fun" projects was a battle. I'm relieved to say that's something kids can heal from, but it really does take getting your own fears sorted out where learning is concerned. It took Ray a couple years of deschooling to go from "I hate learning" to a joyful expression of "its impossible not to learn - I learn all day long."
Your dd is learning all day long. The trouble is, you have an idea of what learning looks like, and some expectations that she learn certain things along a certain timetable. That's crippling your relationship with her, and getting in the way of her learning joyfully.
What would soothe your fears? What would help you shift your focus away from, well, this: "I wanted to feel like I accomplished more or that she's learning or progressing along with other kids who are in school or even others who are homeschooled and I feel so behind"
That's probably the most important question you can ask yourself right now - what does Your Own process of learning and change look like? Do you do well with lessons? Create a curriculum for yourself out of unschooling lists and websites. Learn about natural learning. If you like, write regular reports/essays on the subject in a blog or journal. But if yout don't do well with lessons, that's something to consider, too. You may do better learning from your dd! Because she really does still know how to learn organically... when you're not in the way.
Some kids won't learn to read until quite a bit later, though, as late as 13. There's another developmental shift that goes on, there, and some kids' brains aren't ready until that shift happens. In school, those kids flounder along in remedial reading programs until either that shift happens or, frequently, they give up and decide they're just too dumb to read.
Go on reading to her! Let it be something you enjoy sharing and back off on the idea of her learning to read for now. When she's ready, she'll let you know (unless you scare her off!). It doesn't matter one whit, either, if she reads "late" - there's no magic window! Adults can learn to read, and do it quickly if there aren't massive self esteem issues in the way. Until recent generations, most people who learned to read at all didn't learn until they were teens or adults.
If you needed a list, you could make a list. If your dd was interested in writing, she might watch you. If she wanders off, its not a good time for her to learn that. Having a fight about it teaches her about fighting and control and resistance to education - absolutely the Last thing you want her to learn! Its better to back off than to push. Write that down and hang it up in a dozen places around the house if it would help you remember.
Any kind of homeschooling is harder on the home! Its a perrenial complaint. Our homes are lived in 24/7, rather than for a few hours in the evenings and on weekends! Do you need a better system for housework? Lots of people like the Flylady system of cleaning in 15min "bites" while I prefer a "fell swoop" method myself: clean one room in one fell swoop and then tolerate the growing jungle for a week.
I'll tell you something, though, that you've probably already realized - if you hadn't spent that time trying to push writing you'd have had time to do more of those other things. If you back off on "asking" her to do edcuational stuff you'll have more time there, too.
Do you have a hard time stepping back and just Being rather than doing all the time? I do, but I've found I can create my own projects and business around my kids, especially as they've gotten older, so that my doing isn't getting in the way of their living and playing and learning.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
>I read where one of your kids actually reads VOLUNTARILY, that would be AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*************
I remember homeschooling with Ray and watching his love of learning fade away until every little thing - writing a few words or even doing "fun" projects was a battle. I'm relieved to say that's something kids can heal from, but it really does take getting your own fears sorted out where learning is concerned. It took Ray a couple years of deschooling to go from "I hate learning" to a joyful expression of "its impossible not to learn - I learn all day long."
Your dd is learning all day long. The trouble is, you have an idea of what learning looks like, and some expectations that she learn certain things along a certain timetable. That's crippling your relationship with her, and getting in the way of her learning joyfully.
What would soothe your fears? What would help you shift your focus away from, well, this: "I wanted to feel like I accomplished more or that she's learning or progressing along with other kids who are in school or even others who are homeschooled and I feel so behind"
That's probably the most important question you can ask yourself right now - what does Your Own process of learning and change look like? Do you do well with lessons? Create a curriculum for yourself out of unschooling lists and websites. Learn about natural learning. If you like, write regular reports/essays on the subject in a blog or journal. But if yout don't do well with lessons, that's something to consider, too. You may do better learning from your dd! Because she really does still know how to learn organically... when you're not in the way.
>> my almost 7 yr old still can hardly read or writeSeven is an average age when kids start being ready to read - notice I say "start"? The kids who learn sooner have an intuitive grasp of reading - they aren't taught by schools or programs at home, even though those things may be present, their brains happen to "click" with reading. Public education has sort of brainwashed us into thinking kids start reading earlier than that, but for the most part its not true. Early academics don't make learning to read one bit easier, its something that's dependent on brain development, and there's a big developmental shift that happens between 7 and 8, the same shift where kids all of a sudden have a big change in the way their faces look - they lose that sort of ubiquitous "little kid" look around the same time.
Some kids won't learn to read until quite a bit later, though, as late as 13. There's another developmental shift that goes on, there, and some kids' brains aren't ready until that shift happens. In school, those kids flounder along in remedial reading programs until either that shift happens or, frequently, they give up and decide they're just too dumb to read.
Go on reading to her! Let it be something you enjoy sharing and back off on the idea of her learning to read for now. When she's ready, she'll let you know (unless you scare her off!). It doesn't matter one whit, either, if she reads "late" - there's no magic window! Adults can learn to read, and do it quickly if there aren't massive self esteem issues in the way. Until recent generations, most people who learned to read at all didn't learn until they were teens or adults.
>>then I thought, HEY great time to practice writingCan you create a little warning system in your thoughts to "catch" ideas like that? Anytime you think the word "practice" stop yourself in your tracks, take a deep breath, and Do Something Else. It will take practice. At first you may have to say "I'm sorry, I'm pushing again" and then back off, but with time you can learn to catch yourself before you say anything at all.
If you needed a list, you could make a list. If your dd was interested in writing, she might watch you. If she wanders off, its not a good time for her to learn that. Having a fight about it teaches her about fighting and control and resistance to education - absolutely the Last thing you want her to learn! Its better to back off than to push. Write that down and hang it up in a dozen places around the house if it would help you remember.
>>> But my house is still in disarray, clothes are still not all put up, laundry not finished, dishes piled up, stuff not packed, emails not all checked, bathrooms dirty, vacuum still out****************
Any kind of homeschooling is harder on the home! Its a perrenial complaint. Our homes are lived in 24/7, rather than for a few hours in the evenings and on weekends! Do you need a better system for housework? Lots of people like the Flylady system of cleaning in 15min "bites" while I prefer a "fell swoop" method myself: clean one room in one fell swoop and then tolerate the growing jungle for a week.
I'll tell you something, though, that you've probably already realized - if you hadn't spent that time trying to push writing you'd have had time to do more of those other things. If you back off on "asking" her to do edcuational stuff you'll have more time there, too.
> Tues was a do nothing day alsoLOL! Your do nothing day sounds pretty full to me! If anything, a bit too full - kids need lots of time to play. They naturally do most of their learning via play, so its really a good thing to leave lots and lots of time for free play
Do you have a hard time stepping back and just Being rather than doing all the time? I do, but I've found I can create my own projects and business around my kids, especially as they've gotten older, so that my doing isn't getting in the way of their living and playing and learning.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
Paul & Camille
This is inspiring re reading from one of the Mums on the NZ unschooling
site :)
Those of you who have children that are slow to read might like to hear
about my son. He was much later than the average learning to read. He
never read an entire book by himself until the age of 16. Up until then I
read for him or with him, helping him with the words he couldn't read.
Later this month he is graduating with a double degree from Canterbury
University(Arts and Computer Science) this was achieved without
reader/writer assistance and included him doing 3rd year Chinese papers
(reading and writing in Chinese). I want to encourage you to keep reading
to your children when they cant read themselves and dont think they will
never read.
I found that great. Loved what Meredith wrote also :)
Camille
site :)
Those of you who have children that are slow to read might like to hear
about my son. He was much later than the average learning to read. He
never read an entire book by himself until the age of 16. Up until then I
read for him or with him, helping him with the words he couldn't read.
Later this month he is graduating with a double degree from Canterbury
University(Arts and Computer Science) this was achieved without
reader/writer assistance and included him doing 3rd year Chinese papers
(reading and writing in Chinese). I want to encourage you to keep reading
to your children when they cant read themselves and dont think they will
never read.
I found that great. Loved what Meredith wrote also :)
Camille
[email protected]
You know our neighbors always buy workbooks for their kids to do over the summer so they dont forget anything!
I know so many other homeschoolers who literally do lessons from 9-3 each day, they recreate school at home..I never understood that, my original goal was 1 hr a day max on any workbook/sitdown and the rest all hands on... but that didn't work, so here I am:) I've so got to stop comparing her to kids her age that are reading a lot, etc...
Thanks for those links, when I get time I will check them out!!!:)
I know so many other homeschoolers who literally do lessons from 9-3 each day, they recreate school at home..I never understood that, my original goal was 1 hr a day max on any workbook/sitdown and the rest all hands on... but that didn't work, so here I am:) I've so got to stop comparing her to kids her age that are reading a lot, etc...
Thanks for those links, when I get time I will check them out!!!:)
--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Apr 15, 2010, at 9:52 PM, kristi3003@... wrote:
>
> > I wanted to feel like I accomplished more or that she's learning or
> > progressing along with other kids who are in school or even others
> > who are homeschooled and I feel so behind
>
> You need to let that go. Really. Live as though school didn't exist.
>
> Unschooling is about creating a peaceful environment for her to
> explore her interests. It needs to not be about your learning comfort
> because each time you get nervous and make her do school, what she's
> learning isn't what you think she's learning. She's learning that
> writing and reading and anything else that makes her cry or you scream
> is hard and something to be avoided.
>
> That's exactly what the kids in school are learning. That's why it
> takes *years* for kids to learn simple stuff like math. That's why
> teachers say kids forget everything over the summer. It's because they
> aren't learning it. They're just memorizing stuff they don't care
> about. If you want the same for your daughter, you could put her in
> school and let someone else deal with the frustration.
>
> If her experience with the printed word is pleasant, she will read. If
> her experience with numbers is personally meaningful, she will add and
> subtract and multiply. If you nurture your wonder about the world, if
> share her wonder -- stop and smell the flowers! -- she will be a true
> scientist,
>
> My daughter Kathryn spent *minutes* each week with math. It looked
> like video games and me answering her questions, saving to buy
> something. She absorbed how numbers worked and how she could make them
> tell her what she wanted to know from them.
>
> At 7 Kathryn's writing "instruction" looked like free access to loads
> of paper and writing implements. She drew pictures. Labeled them
> occasionally. Drew comics. At 12 her writing looked like more comics
> and the beginnings of stories. At 18 it looks like more comics and
> longer stories.
>
> I read to her for years. (I still do and she's 18 ;-) I answered her
> questions. She played video games that involved the occasional word,
> looked through the guides for help before she could solidly read (the
> pictures were a good guide). We listened to books on tape. At some
> point she could read but didn't on her own, not even the fun kids
> books she liked like Captain Underpants. Then at 12 she found an adult
> mystery series (one we'd heard on tape) and that's when she started
> reading on her own.
>
> (And for your and your daughter's peace of mind, you must let go of
> the notion that reading can be taught. Schools are *not* teaching
> reading. Teachers are going through the motions while kids brains
> mature to the point where they can decode. Learning to read is exactly
> like learning to walk. You can't teach a child to walk only create the
> environment where they're able to walk when they're physically ready.
> Schools have reading failures because kids are so demoralized at not
> being able to read (when the truth is they physically can't yet and by
> the time they can they are convinced they can't or hate reading so
> much they don't want to.) Unschoolers don't have reading failures. We
> do no instruction, we don't make our kids read and yet everyone of
> them does read. (Usually 6-8 just like in schools, but for many it
> takes longer for the brain to be ready. Later readers go about their
> lives in peace learning in ways that are more meaningful to them until
> they're ready to read. In school the kids are constantly reminded
> they're failing until they're ready to read.
>
> This should help. Do follow the links :-)
>
> http://sandradodd.com/reading
>
> Here's some more to read that should help you:
>
> http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
> http://sandradodd.com/joyce/deschooling
>
> Why You Can't Let Go
> http://sandradodd.com/joyce/talk
>
> "Products" of Education
> http://sandradodd.com/joyce/products
>
> As much as I love science, as much as I think experiments are cool,
> they're not real science. They're going through specific steps to see
> what someone else says you should see. Real science is about
> observing, asking questions, theorizing, observing more to gather more
> information. It's not about the answers! It's about the questions.
> Though I wouldn't discourage you from looking up answers to her
> questions, what will nurture the scientist in her is looking at the
> world with wonder, questioning and speculating on how it could be. Get
> creative too! Let your imagination free :-) Maybe fairies paint the
> sky wonderful colors. Einstein said:
>
> "Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is
> limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces
> the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand."
>
> He did not come up with the theory of relativity by repeating someone
> else's experiments to see what they saw ;-) He did it by freeing his
> imagination and seeing the world in a way no one else had seen it
> before.
>
> Joyce
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[email protected]
I guess many days when I'm off work and we're home all day my dd says she's bored, or she'll resort to the tv a lot while I'm trying to do bills and pacify the baby, etc... I try to get her involved with me for cooking and cleaning but she's not always interested. True, she does want to play all day other days with me, and we do but I still have to cook and clean up and do a few bills here and there......I think that's my other struggle.
--- In [email protected], "plaidpanties666" <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected], "kristi3003@" <kristi3003@> wrote:
> >I read where one of your kids actually reads VOLUNTARILY, that would be AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> *************
>
> I remember homeschooling with Ray and watching his love of learning fade away until every little thing - writing a few words or even doing "fun" projects was a battle. I'm relieved to say that's something kids can heal from, but it really does take getting your own fears sorted out where learning is concerned. It took Ray a couple years of deschooling to go from "I hate learning" to a joyful expression of "its impossible not to learn - I learn all day long."
>
> Your dd is learning all day long. The trouble is, you have an idea of what learning looks like, and some expectations that she learn certain things along a certain timetable. That's crippling your relationship with her, and getting in the way of her learning joyfully.
>
> What would soothe your fears? What would help you shift your focus away from, well, this: "I wanted to feel like I accomplished more or that she's learning or progressing along with other kids who are in school or even others who are homeschooled and I feel so behind"
>
> That's probably the most important question you can ask yourself right now - what does Your Own process of learning and change look like? Do you do well with lessons? Create a curriculum for yourself out of unschooling lists and websites. Learn about natural learning. If you like, write regular reports/essays on the subject in a blog or journal. But if yout don't do well with lessons, that's something to consider, too. You may do better learning from your dd! Because she really does still know how to learn organically... when you're not in the way.
>
> >> my almost 7 yr old still can hardly read or write
>
> Seven is an average age when kids start being ready to read - notice I say "start"? The kids who learn sooner have an intuitive grasp of reading - they aren't taught by schools or programs at home, even though those things may be present, their brains happen to "click" with reading. Public education has sort of brainwashed us into thinking kids start reading earlier than that, but for the most part its not true. Early academics don't make learning to read one bit easier, its something that's dependent on brain development, and there's a big developmental shift that happens between 7 and 8, the same shift where kids all of a sudden have a big change in the way their faces look - they lose that sort of ubiquitous "little kid" look around the same time.
>
> Some kids won't learn to read until quite a bit later, though, as late as 13. There's another developmental shift that goes on, there, and some kids' brains aren't ready until that shift happens. In school, those kids flounder along in remedial reading programs until either that shift happens or, frequently, they give up and decide they're just too dumb to read.
>
> Go on reading to her! Let it be something you enjoy sharing and back off on the idea of her learning to read for now. When she's ready, she'll let you know (unless you scare her off!). It doesn't matter one whit, either, if she reads "late" - there's no magic window! Adults can learn to read, and do it quickly if there aren't massive self esteem issues in the way. Until recent generations, most people who learned to read at all didn't learn until they were teens or adults.
>
> >>then I thought, HEY great time to practice writing
>
> Can you create a little warning system in your thoughts to "catch" ideas like that? Anytime you think the word "practice" stop yourself in your tracks, take a deep breath, and Do Something Else. It will take practice. At first you may have to say "I'm sorry, I'm pushing again" and then back off, but with time you can learn to catch yourself before you say anything at all.
>
> If you needed a list, you could make a list. If your dd was interested in writing, she might watch you. If she wanders off, its not a good time for her to learn that. Having a fight about it teaches her about fighting and control and resistance to education - absolutely the Last thing you want her to learn! Its better to back off than to push. Write that down and hang it up in a dozen places around the house if it would help you remember.
>
> >>> But my house is still in disarray, clothes are still not all put up, laundry not finished, dishes piled up, stuff not packed, emails not all checked, bathrooms dirty, vacuum still out
> ****************
>
> Any kind of homeschooling is harder on the home! Its a perrenial complaint. Our homes are lived in 24/7, rather than for a few hours in the evenings and on weekends! Do you need a better system for housework? Lots of people like the Flylady system of cleaning in 15min "bites" while I prefer a "fell swoop" method myself: clean one room in one fell swoop and then tolerate the growing jungle for a week.
>
> I'll tell you something, though, that you've probably already realized - if you hadn't spent that time trying to push writing you'd have had time to do more of those other things. If you back off on "asking" her to do edcuational stuff you'll have more time there, too.
>
> > Tues was a do nothing day also
>
> LOL! Your do nothing day sounds pretty full to me! If anything, a bit too full - kids need lots of time to play. They naturally do most of their learning via play, so its really a good thing to leave lots and lots of time for free play
>
> Do you have a hard time stepping back and just Being rather than doing all the time? I do, but I've found I can create my own projects and business around my kids, especially as they've gotten older, so that my doing isn't getting in the way of their living and playing and learning.
>
> ---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
>
Bun
--- In [email protected], "plaidpanties666" <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
Mabye try to give yourself a break about keeping on top of everything including dd's learning. Try it for a while - I bet you will see that she is still learning (maybe different things than what you were trying to "get" her to learn, but still learning and making connections that you can't even predict how they will come into play in the future...and learning that might stick because it is learning that happens naturally driven by your daughter living life and finding out about or exploring what she naturally wants to). I suggest you keep reading and I suggest getting Rue Kream's book "Raising a Free Child: An Unschooled Life." Awesome book! It might seem so hard to trust your daughter, but the rewards of trusting your kids are untold. Laurie :)
> LOL! Your do nothing day sounds pretty full to me! If anything, a bit too full - kids need lots of time to play. (snip)I have to say the same thing! I was all tired out just by reading! lol! :) Your schedule sounds rushed and a bit too busy. Think it might do you both good to slow it down, breathe and do fun things together. Gosh, she won't stay little forever - really enjoy her! Ask your dd what she wants to do (or suggest something you think she'd like) and go with it!
Mabye try to give yourself a break about keeping on top of everything including dd's learning. Try it for a while - I bet you will see that she is still learning (maybe different things than what you were trying to "get" her to learn, but still learning and making connections that you can't even predict how they will come into play in the future...and learning that might stick because it is learning that happens naturally driven by your daughter living life and finding out about or exploring what she naturally wants to). I suggest you keep reading and I suggest getting Rue Kream's book "Raising a Free Child: An Unschooled Life." Awesome book! It might seem so hard to trust your daughter, but the rewards of trusting your kids are untold. Laurie :)
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], "kristi3003@..." <kristi3003@...> wrote:
Bored doesn't necessarily mean she needs more to do - especially around age 7, when kids can go through a period of wanting more "mature" interests without really having a specific idea of what they want while at the same time not being ready to give up little kids stuff yet. Its natural for kids, too, to start exploring the *feeling* of boredom around age 7. It doesn't always mean "help me find something to do" and by jumping in with ideas, your child can get the sense that you're trying to... sweep her feelings under the rug.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
>***************
> I guess many days when I'm off work and we're home all day my dd says she's bored, or she'll resort to the tv a lot while I'm trying to do bills and pacify the baby, etc...
Bored doesn't necessarily mean she needs more to do - especially around age 7, when kids can go through a period of wanting more "mature" interests without really having a specific idea of what they want while at the same time not being ready to give up little kids stuff yet. Its natural for kids, too, to start exploring the *feeling* of boredom around age 7. It doesn't always mean "help me find something to do" and by jumping in with ideas, your child can get the sense that you're trying to... sweep her feelings under the rug.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)