"allowance" vs. extra work
Marla
Both of our kids (11 yo. and 6 yo.) get an "allowance" of $10 each week. There are no expectations or "chores" attached to their "allowance." It is never taken away as punishment (as we don't believe in punishment, something that we continue to work on-LOL). We believe that it is given for being part of the family. Plus, our kids do help out when asked (though, we ask with no expectation, so if they say "no," that's fine).
However, the 6 yo. adores money and wants more every day. She asked if she did many things around the house (i.e. clean the fridge, etc.) could she get more money. I told her that there were other ways she could make money, such as through selling her old toys or clothes on ebay or making jewelry or other things to sell at our local farmer's market or on ebay. I really don't feel comfortable paying her for individual jobs that are contributions to the family. We tried it once and she asked to be paid for everything, from picking a piece of paper off the floor to cleaning the toilet. I feel that her "allowance" covers these things, whether she does them or not.
What are your thoughts?
Thanks!
Marla
However, the 6 yo. adores money and wants more every day. She asked if she did many things around the house (i.e. clean the fridge, etc.) could she get more money. I told her that there were other ways she could make money, such as through selling her old toys or clothes on ebay or making jewelry or other things to sell at our local farmer's market or on ebay. I really don't feel comfortable paying her for individual jobs that are contributions to the family. We tried it once and she asked to be paid for everything, from picking a piece of paper off the floor to cleaning the toilet. I feel that her "allowance" covers these things, whether she does them or not.
What are your thoughts?
Thanks!
Marla
plaidpanties666
We've occasionally paid Ray to do "extra work" but it has always been the kind of thing we'd pay someone else to do. After George hurt his shoulder there were a lot of things, for awhile, that we needed done and he couldn't do (and I was working) but Ray could. I've also periodically "subcontracted" kids to do parts of some of my "odd jobs" - sewing work and small parts assembly. There are aspects of those that don't take any real skills, just time, and when I have a kid available and interested I'll "sub out" the work and pay them for it.
The biggest issue I've had with paying kids for work is not having the money, period. If you do have the money, can you increase your kids' allowances?
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
The biggest issue I've had with paying kids for work is not having the money, period. If you do have the money, can you increase your kids' allowances?
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
Marla
Thanks for the ideas, Meredith. I'll keep that in mind.
Yeah, unfortunately my husband just took a pretty significant pay cut (though he's leaving a job he has hated for the last 10 years and has really caused a lot of stress in and out of the home, so it's a good thing, too - LOL). So, we are working out the new budget and are feeling stressed right now. I know once we've been at it a few months, we'll feel better.
I also admit that my dh and I have always had negative issues around money, so Lily is definitely bringing up some old stuff in us that we haven't figured out how to work through, yet. She just loves money - LOL. She spends her days counting coins to see if she can get a dollar or two (her favorite is "I'll give you 3 quarters for a dollar." and she knows all too well that there are 4 quarters in a dollar - LOL). She also has free access to one of our extra coin jars, to dig around in for extra money. I know a lot of this does have to do with me and my dh working out our money issues and with our recent cut in salary, so over time things should get better. Just can't see the forest through the trees right now.
Thanks again!
Marla
Yeah, unfortunately my husband just took a pretty significant pay cut (though he's leaving a job he has hated for the last 10 years and has really caused a lot of stress in and out of the home, so it's a good thing, too - LOL). So, we are working out the new budget and are feeling stressed right now. I know once we've been at it a few months, we'll feel better.
I also admit that my dh and I have always had negative issues around money, so Lily is definitely bringing up some old stuff in us that we haven't figured out how to work through, yet. She just loves money - LOL. She spends her days counting coins to see if she can get a dollar or two (her favorite is "I'll give you 3 quarters for a dollar." and she knows all too well that there are 4 quarters in a dollar - LOL). She also has free access to one of our extra coin jars, to dig around in for extra money. I know a lot of this does have to do with me and my dh working out our money issues and with our recent cut in salary, so over time things should get better. Just can't see the forest through the trees right now.
Thanks again!
Marla
NCMama
You are giving money an awful lot of power. Can you pretend - while your *6-year-old* plays with it - that the money is just tokens? That's more than likely what it means to her. You say she loves "money" and to you, that might mean she loves to buy, etc. But it sounds like she loves actual, physical money.
Go ahead and pay her a nickel or a dime - or a penny! - for picking something up. Find the "yes". If she was into checkers, wouldn't you pay her a red checker for picking up a piece of paper, two blacks for unloading the dishwasher? It's the same thing.
The money you look at in your budget and the money she's playing with are two very different things. I wonder if she doesn't want to "make money", as you see it, but rather, she just wants more money to play with. Don't tie her money down with all these heavy beliefs you seem to have about it.
There was something unclear in your post. You wrote, "There
are no expectations or "chores" attached to their "allowance." But then you wrote, "We tried it once and she asked to be paid for everything, from picking a piece of paper off the floor to cleaning the toilet. I feel that her "allowance" covers these things, whether she does them or not." How can her allowance 'cover those things' if they're not attached to it? That didn't make sense to me.
Also - and I know this will sound picky, and I apologize for that - it's a bit rude to "cross post" to multiple lists, especially if you give the exact same response no matter what response you got. It comes across as you not really taking in the answers people are giving to you. Just a little bit of list etiquette that might be helpful for you.
peace,
Caren
Go ahead and pay her a nickel or a dime - or a penny! - for picking something up. Find the "yes". If she was into checkers, wouldn't you pay her a red checker for picking up a piece of paper, two blacks for unloading the dishwasher? It's the same thing.
The money you look at in your budget and the money she's playing with are two very different things. I wonder if she doesn't want to "make money", as you see it, but rather, she just wants more money to play with. Don't tie her money down with all these heavy beliefs you seem to have about it.
There was something unclear in your post. You wrote, "There
are no expectations or "chores" attached to their "allowance." But then you wrote, "We tried it once and she asked to be paid for everything, from picking a piece of paper off the floor to cleaning the toilet. I feel that her "allowance" covers these things, whether she does them or not." How can her allowance 'cover those things' if they're not attached to it? That didn't make sense to me.
Also - and I know this will sound picky, and I apologize for that - it's a bit rude to "cross post" to multiple lists, especially if you give the exact same response no matter what response you got. It comes across as you not really taking in the answers people are giving to you. Just a little bit of list etiquette that might be helpful for you.
peace,
Caren
Marla
No, the reality is that she really does like to spend money and she reminds us daily of what she wants, how much it costs, and how upset she is that she can't have it now. I give her empathy, I try to discuss ways of saving up for things, buying used, making something similar, whatever I can do to help her know that I am trying to hear her need and help her find a way to get what she wants.
Now I realize why I don't post much anymore.
Marla
Now I realize why I don't post much anymore.
Marla
--- In [email protected], "NCMama" <carenkh@...> wrote:
>
> You are giving money an awful lot of power. Can you pretend - while your *6-year-old* plays with it - that the money is just tokens? That's more than likely what it means to her. You say she loves "money" and to you, that might mean she loves to buy, etc. But it sounds like she loves actual, physical money.
>
> Go ahead and pay her a nickel or a dime - or a penny! - for picking something up. Find the "yes". If she was into checkers, wouldn't you pay her a red checker for picking up a piece of paper, two blacks for unloading the dishwasher? It's the same thing.
>
> The money you look at in your budget and the money she's playing with are two very different things. I wonder if she doesn't want to "make money", as you see it, but rather, she just wants more money to play with. Don't tie her money down with all these heavy beliefs you seem to have about it.
>
> There was something unclear in your post. You wrote, "There
> are no expectations or "chores" attached to their "allowance." But then you wrote, "We tried it once and she asked to be paid for everything, from picking a piece of paper off the floor to cleaning the toilet. I feel that her "allowance" covers these things, whether she does them or not." How can her allowance 'cover those things' if they're not attached to it? That didn't make sense to me.
>
> Also - and I know this will sound picky, and I apologize for that - it's a bit rude to "cross post" to multiple lists, especially if you give the exact same response no matter what response you got. It comes across as you not really taking in the answers people are giving to you. Just a little bit of list etiquette that might be helpful for you.
>
> peace,
> Caren
>
Marla
Also, in reference to the cross-post, I admit that I do cross-post the same questions to different lists, as they have different people on them with different ideas. I've never responded to a post the same way until today. However, as I was writing my response to Meredith, I realized that much of it explained what Pam had pointed out, so I decided to post it for Pam as well. I have had the pleasure to meet both Meredith and Pam in the past, so I didn't think they would take offense. Next time I will just email them.
Marla
Marla
Joyce Fetteroll
On Apr 8, 2010, at 7:18 PM, Marla wrote:
it's always been impolite because lists also have many of the same
people. It's not only annoying to see the same question more than
once but I know I always feel less motivated to respond when I see a
cross post.
I think because it feels impersonal as though the person doesn't care
who they get to answer, as long as they get lots of answers. Since
I've been tempted to cross post also I know the intent is to be
efficient, but I think subconsciously that feeling of being treated
like an answer machine is why it feels annoying.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I admit that I do cross-post the same questions to different lists,That's been true ever since Usenet newsgroups started in 1980 but
> as they have different people on them with different ideas.
it's always been impolite because lists also have many of the same
people. It's not only annoying to see the same question more than
once but I know I always feel less motivated to respond when I see a
cross post.
I think because it feels impersonal as though the person doesn't care
who they get to answer, as long as they get lots of answers. Since
I've been tempted to cross post also I know the intent is to be
efficient, but I think subconsciously that feeling of being treated
like an answer machine is why it feels annoying.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Apr 8, 2010, at 6:41 PM, Marla wrote:
It was a good question and got lots of good answers.
It helps people get the most out of the list when reading to picture
the answers directed at the question rather than at you. Other
members may see their own situation in your question and be looking
forward to the answers. If something was interpreted differently than
you expected, the different interpretation may be in another reader's
home so they'll find the answers useful.
If an answer is based on unschooling principles it's probably useful
to someone reading even if not to the original poster.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Now I realize why I don't post much anymore.????
It was a good question and got lots of good answers.
It helps people get the most out of the list when reading to picture
the answers directed at the question rather than at you. Other
members may see their own situation in your question and be looking
forward to the answers. If something was interpreted differently than
you expected, the different interpretation may be in another reader's
home so they'll find the answers useful.
If an answer is based on unschooling principles it's probably useful
to someone reading even if not to the original poster.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sharonmbliss
I haven't posted much because I'm on this site to learn more than share but I had a thought for you if it is the actual value of the money that your daughter is into. When I was young my parents didn't have much money and I never really thought of asking them for money when I wanted it. I liked to accumulate money though so I would find ways to try to earn it. From the ages of 8-12 I lived in a very small neighborhood but I would still try to do a lemonade stand, I put together a neighborhood newsletter and sold subscriptions and I hosted a carnival once a year and sold tickets in my neighborhood and church. These are all things I did on my own or with the help of a neighborhood girl. Just thought I'd pass that along.
Sharon
Sharon
--- In [email protected], "Marla" <marla@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the ideas, Meredith. I'll keep that in mind.
>
> Yeah, unfortunately my husband just took a pretty significant pay cut (though he's leaving a job he has hated for the last 10 years and has really caused a lot of stress in and out of the home, so it's a good thing, too - LOL). So, we are working out the new budget and are feeling stressed right now. I know once we've been at it a few months, we'll feel better.
>
> I also admit that my dh and I have always had negative issues around money, so Lily is definitely bringing up some old stuff in us that we haven't figured out how to work through, yet. She just loves money - LOL. She spends her days counting coins to see if she can get a dollar or two (her favorite is "I'll give you 3 quarters for a dollar." and she knows all too well that there are 4 quarters in a dollar - LOL). She also has free access to one of our extra coin jars, to dig around in for extra money. I know a lot of this does have to do with me and my dh working out our money issues and with our recent cut in salary, so over time things should get better. Just can't see the forest through the trees right now.
>
> Thanks again!
>
> Marla
>
Debra Rossing
> No, the reality is that she really does like to spend money and shereminds us daily of what she wants, how much it costs, and how upset she
is that she can't have it now.
A really, really BIG thing when DS was littler was to write it down.
We'd write down what he wanted, where we saw it, how much it was there,
research it, etc. - by the time he was 5 or so he'd see something in the
store and say "Let's check Amazon when we get home" LOL He'd repeat
stuff over and over "I want X" and all the empathizing and discussing
didn't really help, it wasn't concrete enough. If it was written down on
a list that he could look at (even before he could read), that was
helpful for him. Then, when we did have a bit of spare spending money
available, he could look at the list and prioritize things - maybe that
X he wanted last month has been superseded by Y last week, then again
maybe Z from 3 months ago has risen in importance lately. That idea of a
'wish list' and prioritizing things (and no priority was set in stone,
it was all fluid) created a pattern for him - when he was about 6, he
got a BUNCH of spendables (cash, gift cards) for Christmas. We asked
where he wanted to use them (VISA gift cards can be used anywhere!) So,
we went to the store he wanted to go to. He asked me to bring a pen and
paper to make a list of the stuff he wanted while he shopped so he
wouldn't miss anything. We browsed aisle after aisle. I'd jot a note of
the item, price, any other notes he wanted. I figured at some point he'd
grab a couple things and we'd be good to go. I figured wrong. After we
had a list of about a dozen items, he said Okay, I'm done, let's go. Uh,
wait, you didn't actually BUT anything, I'm confused. But out we went to
the car. Once we were there, we sat and prioritize the items, the
prices, etc. I figured Oh, okay, he's going to figure out how much stuff
he can get, the best arrangement to get the most he can. Cool. Wrong
again mom-o. After we sorted the list and he was satisfied with it, we
went back in. He picked ONE item (and not the most expensive one either)
and said let's go - so we checked out with that one item. Those gifts
lasted probably 2 or 3 months as he gradually worked through his
priority list and other things that came up along the way.
It's been an interesting journey, with DS and money stuff. Especially
because DH and I have very different backgrounds with money so it's
caused us some good discussions ourselves about things like "wasting"
money and such.
Deb R
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Jeanette
Really quick reply.....
My oldest almost never wants to buy things, but he's more of a talker/people type like me. He wants things to fulfill needs of connecting with others and pretending (put he can pretend with paper and pencil...cheap!!!!). However, my middle son is more of the physical type. It's not enough to just look at or talk about a given item. He REALLY needs to physically interact with it. This is soooo difficult sometimes. But I feel like I'm understanding him more every day. I have to provide PLENTY of physical outlets for him to curb some of his intensity towards things we can't afford at the time. I don't bring him to the store unless I feel like his "physical cup" is pretty full. It's not easy for him to go into a situation feeling so "needy". He has also started trusting me more that we will work towards buying things. We take pictures of what he wants on my phone and try to leave the store with something inexpensive and usually physical....sometimes just
some gum will do for him. He also enjoys handling money. We have rolled coins, folded money, bought rolls of tickets to play with, and made our own money (very soft...especially for extra sensory input)...oh, and he loves to play with receipts.
We don't do allowance. We just buy what we can, when we can and the kids get money from family but they usually just play with it or hand it over to me to hold onto it for them.
Jeanette Wilson
My oldest almost never wants to buy things, but he's more of a talker/people type like me. He wants things to fulfill needs of connecting with others and pretending (put he can pretend with paper and pencil...cheap!!!!). However, my middle son is more of the physical type. It's not enough to just look at or talk about a given item. He REALLY needs to physically interact with it. This is soooo difficult sometimes. But I feel like I'm understanding him more every day. I have to provide PLENTY of physical outlets for him to curb some of his intensity towards things we can't afford at the time. I don't bring him to the store unless I feel like his "physical cup" is pretty full. It's not easy for him to go into a situation feeling so "needy". He has also started trusting me more that we will work towards buying things. We take pictures of what he wants on my phone and try to leave the store with something inexpensive and usually physical....sometimes just
some gum will do for him. He also enjoys handling money. We have rolled coins, folded money, bought rolls of tickets to play with, and made our own money (very soft...especially for extra sensory input)...oh, and he loves to play with receipts.
We don't do allowance. We just buy what we can, when we can and the kids get money from family but they usually just play with it or hand it over to me to hold onto it for them.
Jeanette Wilson
sharon
Thank you for explaining this Joyce. I was also offended by what Caren said about cross posting. I have cross posted once or twice in the past for the same reasons Marla mentioned: different people, larger audience. Good to know.
Sharon
Sharon
--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Apr 8, 2010, at 7:18 PM, Marla wrote:
>
> > I admit that I do cross-post the same questions to different lists,
> > as they have different people on them with different ideas.
>
> That's been true ever since Usenet newsgroups started in 1980 but
> it's always been impolite because lists also have many of the same
> people. It's not only annoying to see the same question more than
> once but I know I always feel less motivated to respond when I see a
> cross post.
>
> I think because it feels impersonal as though the person doesn't care
> who they get to answer, as long as they get lots of answers. Since
> I've been tempted to cross post also I know the intent is to be
> efficient, but I think subconsciously that feeling of being treated
> like an answer machine is why it feels annoying.
>
> Joyce
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
sharon
Marla,
Not sure if this fits or not, but an idea I heard once is to help the child make a vision board of the things they want to bring into their life. Cut out pictures of toys from a Toys R Us flyer or other flyers in the newspaper, mailings, etc. Sometimes it is just the wanting that needs to be expressed. I know this was true for my 7 y/o son during the Christmas season. He wanted everything he saw advertised on TV. So we made a list of all the things he wanted. When he saw a new toy/game he would ask me to add it to the list. There were at least 20-30 or more items. When it came time for me to go shopping I double checked with him what he wanted. We went thru the list together and he ended up saying, "No, I decided I don't want that," to most of the items on the list. *Phew*, I thought to myself. Even some of the stuff we gave him, like an electric guitar, he only used once or twice. It seems it was more about the wanting.
Best wishes,
Sharon
Not sure if this fits or not, but an idea I heard once is to help the child make a vision board of the things they want to bring into their life. Cut out pictures of toys from a Toys R Us flyer or other flyers in the newspaper, mailings, etc. Sometimes it is just the wanting that needs to be expressed. I know this was true for my 7 y/o son during the Christmas season. He wanted everything he saw advertised on TV. So we made a list of all the things he wanted. When he saw a new toy/game he would ask me to add it to the list. There were at least 20-30 or more items. When it came time for me to go shopping I double checked with him what he wanted. We went thru the list together and he ended up saying, "No, I decided I don't want that," to most of the items on the list. *Phew*, I thought to myself. Even some of the stuff we gave him, like an electric guitar, he only used once or twice. It seems it was more about the wanting.
Best wishes,
Sharon
Tracy Austin
Hi Marla,
One thing that you can share with your kids is that you are not the only avenue for the stuff they want to flow to them. You are the main one, but if they take some time to get into the feeling of having what they desire, really FEELING like they have it now, the Universe will surprise them with their stuff in ways none of us can even imagine:-)
A few years back Dayna posted on her unschooling list about how her daughter wanted a Barbie ride-in car. It was out of budget for them. If I recall correctly, they went to a friends house awhile later, and that friend had the car her dd wanted, and GAVE it to her! How cool is that?
Anyway, thanks for posting.
Tracy
One thing that you can share with your kids is that you are not the only avenue for the stuff they want to flow to them. You are the main one, but if they take some time to get into the feeling of having what they desire, really FEELING like they have it now, the Universe will surprise them with their stuff in ways none of us can even imagine:-)
A few years back Dayna posted on her unschooling list about how her daughter wanted a Barbie ride-in car. It was out of budget for them. If I recall correctly, they went to a friends house awhile later, and that friend had the car her dd wanted, and GAVE it to her! How cool is that?
Anyway, thanks for posting.
Tracy
----- Original Message -----
From: sharonmbliss
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 7:09 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: "allowance" vs. extra work
I haven't posted much because I'm on this site to learn more than share but I had a thought for you if it is the actual value of the money that your daughter is into. When I was young my parents didn't have much money and I never really thought of asking them for money when I wanted it. I liked to accumulate money though so I would find ways to try to earn it. From the ages of 8-12 I lived in a very small neighborhood but I would still try to do a lemonade stand, I put together a neighborhood newsletter and sold subscriptions and I hosted a carnival once a year and sold tickets in my neighborhood and church. These are all things I did on my own or with the help of a neighborhood girl. Just thought I'd pass that along.
Sharon
--- In [email protected], "Marla" <marla@...> wrote:
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Marla
I began cross-posting because some lists only have responses once every couple of days while others are more active. Also, I do like to get a lot of responses, because I do like to see what other people have to say and how they say it. That's how I can find what speaks to me most. Another reason I cross-post is because I'm not very good at taking my thoughts and writing them down (which is pretty obvious), so it takes a long time to figure out what I want to say and even then it's never truly what I mean to say. So, I don't want to rewrite a different post for each list.
Marla
> That's been true ever since Usenet newsgroups started in 1980 butThere are some different people on each list, so how do you know that that won't be the person who you relate to most?
> it's always been impolite because lists also have many of the same
> people.
>It's not only annoying to see the same questionI've never thought about it that way. If I see a question that speaks to me, then I'll answer it. If not, then I don't.
>But if I see the same question
> once but I know I always feel less motivated to respond when I see a
> cross post.
>I do care about who answers it. I've met a lot of incredible people during my unschooling journey. I've been fortunate to meet many in person at conferences, etc. I think every person has value as we are all different, have had different journeys, so we have different ways of looking at things.
> I think because it feels impersonal as though the person doesn't care
> who they get to answer
>as long as they get lots of answers.As I said before, I do like lots of answers. The more I get, the more tools and options I am given and I can give my children. There are rarely any two that are alike. So it gives me a lot to think about.
>SinceSorry, as that was never my intention, connection and community were.
> I've been tempted to cross post also I know the intent is to be
> efficient, but I think subconsciously that feeling of being treated
> like an answer machine is why it feels annoying.
Marla
Marla
Those are some great ideas, Sharon. Lily has tried to do many a lemonade stand, but we live in a very rural area (unlike me in suburbia, where we could always make a few bucks - LOL) on a road with few cars and 55 mph. We are fortunate to have occasional craft shows and farmer markets where we've sold homemade jewlery, etc.
I do like your ingenuity, though!
Marla
I do like your ingenuity, though!
Marla
Marla
Thanks, Deb. We do keep a list of things she'd like (some with pics, some without). It can be really helpful at times.
How's the king of duct tape? Everyone asks about my duct tape checkbook cover that he made.
Marla
How's the king of duct tape? Everyone asks about my duct tape checkbook cover that he made.
Marla
Marla
It's funny, but my 11 yo. is the same way. She actually gives me a hard time if I try to buy her too many new clothes, etc. But I think many kids at 6 yo. and younger can go through this phase and eventually grow out of it.
I met someone else at the Ohio waterpark conference who discussed different kinds of kids and included the category of "needy," kids who need lots of stuff. It's just who they are. At this point, we do avoid bringing her to a store unless we feel we can meet those needs at that time. I'll try the physical outlet suggetion, too. It's finally warm enough here for our trampoline and that's a great outlet. We also let her get something everytime we take her to a store, but we limit the amount to what we feel we can afford at the time and always bring her allowance along, just in case. Thanks for letting me know you are going through a similar thing and it is getting better.
Marla
I met someone else at the Ohio waterpark conference who discussed different kinds of kids and included the category of "needy," kids who need lots of stuff. It's just who they are. At this point, we do avoid bringing her to a store unless we feel we can meet those needs at that time. I'll try the physical outlet suggetion, too. It's finally warm enough here for our trampoline and that's a great outlet. We also let her get something everytime we take her to a store, but we limit the amount to what we feel we can afford at the time and always bring her allowance along, just in case. Thanks for letting me know you are going through a similar thing and it is getting better.
Marla
undermom
***but I think subconsciously that feeling of being treated like an answer machine is why it feels annoying.***
:-) That's it! When not only the original question was cross posted, but also an entire reply with only the name of a responder changed, that absolutely felt like the lists *and especially the people who put time and thought into responding* were being treated as a commodity.
I was pleased to see Caren's reply, and I'm bit puzzled by the negative responses to it. She didn't just post an admonishment to not cross post, after all. She wrote a rather long detailed response to the question and then, at the very end of her reply, wrote a softened note in as inoffensive a tone as an etiquette note could possibly be worded. I thought it was incredibly sweet of her.
Deborah in IL
:-) That's it! When not only the original question was cross posted, but also an entire reply with only the name of a responder changed, that absolutely felt like the lists *and especially the people who put time and thought into responding* were being treated as a commodity.
I was pleased to see Caren's reply, and I'm bit puzzled by the negative responses to it. She didn't just post an admonishment to not cross post, after all. She wrote a rather long detailed response to the question and then, at the very end of her reply, wrote a softened note in as inoffensive a tone as an etiquette note could possibly be worded. I thought it was incredibly sweet of her.
Deborah in IL
Marla
Thanks for that idea, Sharon. Yes, she does have a vision board, and it is bursting at the seams - LOL.
Marla
Marla
Marla
Thanks, Tracy. I am familiar with Dayna's work and have it in my tool box.
Thanks!
Marla
Thanks!
Marla
Joyce Fetteroll
On Apr 9, 2010, at 2:21 PM, Marla wrote:
react to their perception of someone's intentions. Even if someone
explains their intentions, if the actions still have a negative feel,
people will react as though the person's intent were negative.
That's not a rule of cross posting. That's a phenomenon of all human
interaction.
For instance if a child perceives a parent's actions as mean or
controlling, the parent's intent (to protect, to help) means nothing.
Actions not only speak louder than words, they speak louder than intent.
Cross posting will be perceived as rude regardless of the cross
poster's intention that it mean something else.
posting. The more frequent contributors will be the most bothered
because they've seen a lot of cross posting over their years. So
cross posted questions are more likely to draw responses from newer
members.
That's just a likelihood it's good to be aware of when someone's
tempted to cross post.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Sorry, as that was never my intention, connection and community were.My point is that people don't react to someone's intentions. People
react to their perception of someone's intentions. Even if someone
explains their intentions, if the actions still have a negative feel,
people will react as though the person's intent were negative.
That's not a rule of cross posting. That's a phenomenon of all human
interaction.
For instance if a child perceives a parent's actions as mean or
controlling, the parent's intent (to protect, to help) means nothing.
Actions not only speak louder than words, they speak louder than intent.
Cross posting will be perceived as rude regardless of the cross
poster's intention that it mean something else.
> I've never thought about it that way. If I see a question thatThe less a member participates the less they'll be bothered by cross
> speaks to me, then I'll answer it. If not, then I don't.
posting. The more frequent contributors will be the most bothered
because they've seen a lot of cross posting over their years. So
cross posted questions are more likely to draw responses from newer
members.
That's just a likelihood it's good to be aware of when someone's
tempted to cross post.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], "Marla" <marla@...> wrote:
That's a good point. And while unschoolers generally are okay with the idea kids can be "needy" in emotional ways, I think its easy to forget that its possible to be "needy" in terms of having stuff or receiving gifts - partly because of a cultural assumption that that kind of "neediness" isn't real or important.
---Meredith
>> I met someone else at the Ohio waterpark conference who discussed different kinds of kids and included the category of "needy," kids who need lots of stuff. It's just who they are.****************
That's a good point. And while unschoolers generally are okay with the idea kids can be "needy" in emotional ways, I think its easy to forget that its possible to be "needy" in terms of having stuff or receiving gifts - partly because of a cultural assumption that that kind of "neediness" isn't real or important.
---Meredith
Gwen
We use a dry erase board to keep track of wants & needs. Megan's (and eventually Zoe's) stuff goes up with our stuff. There was a time when most of the stuff on the list was Megan's, but now that she's older that need to aquire has lessened.
But I do remember it starting around age 5 and being a VERY big thing in our lives and it did take some adjusting. We discovered unschooling around that time and many of the suggestions were so helpful - but it seems that 5 or so is an age for it.
We started Megan's allowance then - $30 per month, all at once. She was really into Webkinz and my intention was that she could buy a Webkinz and still have some money left over for other things.
Over the past year or so, I noticed that her allowance went entirely for one video game each month and then she'd spend the rest of the month asking when she'd get her allowance again. So we recently raised her allowance to $50/month. We're in a position to do it and I let her know that if finances get tight again, it may have to be reduced (as a last resort...but Dennis was laid off last year and spent 3 months unemployed...it is unlikely to happen again).
Last month she bought a game ($40) and still had money left over. The leftover money lasted most of the month. I think she bought a stuffed animal with the last $10.
This month she bought $12 toys for herself, her sister & her dad. She also bought two bags of Combos (a pretzel-type snack) - she still has $12 left and is holding onto it for now.
I don't know if I'd ever pay Megan to do chores or help with chores. It makes me feel like that would put make part of our relationship conditional. I could see getting her a present or a small surprise as a genuine thank you for helping...but I don't know that I'd put a price on something before hand.
Gwen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
But I do remember it starting around age 5 and being a VERY big thing in our lives and it did take some adjusting. We discovered unschooling around that time and many of the suggestions were so helpful - but it seems that 5 or so is an age for it.
We started Megan's allowance then - $30 per month, all at once. She was really into Webkinz and my intention was that she could buy a Webkinz and still have some money left over for other things.
Over the past year or so, I noticed that her allowance went entirely for one video game each month and then she'd spend the rest of the month asking when she'd get her allowance again. So we recently raised her allowance to $50/month. We're in a position to do it and I let her know that if finances get tight again, it may have to be reduced (as a last resort...but Dennis was laid off last year and spent 3 months unemployed...it is unlikely to happen again).
Last month she bought a game ($40) and still had money left over. The leftover money lasted most of the month. I think she bought a stuffed animal with the last $10.
This month she bought $12 toys for herself, her sister & her dad. She also bought two bags of Combos (a pretzel-type snack) - she still has $12 left and is holding onto it for now.
I don't know if I'd ever pay Megan to do chores or help with chores. It makes me feel like that would put make part of our relationship conditional. I could see getting her a present or a small surprise as a genuine thank you for helping...but I don't know that I'd put a price on something before hand.
Gwen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Gwen
Looking at it as being a "collector" instead of being needy can be helpful too.
Megan is a collector. If there's something she's interested in, then she wants *all* of it. Over the years she's gotten more selective and discerning, which has been fascinating to watch.
Zoe, on the other hand, so far seems to be happy with just one or two of a toy.
Gwen
Megan is a collector. If there's something she's interested in, then she wants *all* of it. Over the years she's gotten more selective and discerning, which has been fascinating to watch.
Zoe, on the other hand, so far seems to be happy with just one or two of a toy.
Gwen
--- On Sat, 4/10/10, plaidpanties666 <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
That's a good point. And while unschoolers generally are okay with the idea kids can be "needy" in emotional ways, I think its easy to forget that its possible to be "needy" in terms of having stuff or receiving gifts - partly because of a cultural assumption that that kind of "neediness" isn't real or important.
---Meredith
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
If your child loves to get many toys and stuff I can't say enough about going to thrift stores, yard sales , craigslist and Freecycle.
We are not in the position to by toys but Gigi loves shopping and buying right now.
So that is how we do it. Thurdays is 50% off on out local Goodwill and we get lots of cheap and great stuff there.
This past Thursday we got some great stuff for nothing! The kids were all very happy!
MD is always easy going about buying. He is happy to wait and save money.
He when he was younger we could buy a lot for him and he did not become a big spender at all by us giving him pretty much all
he wanted. WE really lavished on him.
With Gigi we are having to be really creative about it. So I am alwasy looking for a deal and saving pennies for her.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We are not in the position to by toys but Gigi loves shopping and buying right now.
So that is how we do it. Thurdays is 50% off on out local Goodwill and we get lots of cheap and great stuff there.
This past Thursday we got some great stuff for nothing! The kids were all very happy!
MD is always easy going about buying. He is happy to wait and save money.
He when he was younger we could buy a lot for him and he did not become a big spender at all by us giving him pretty much all
he wanted. WE really lavished on him.
With Gigi we are having to be really creative about it. So I am alwasy looking for a deal and saving pennies for her.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Marla
That's my kids - LOL. Amy (11 yo.) just likes to get a few items of each thing. While Lily (6 yo.) loves stuffed animals and no matter where we go she always gets a stuffed animal.
Marla
Marla
--- In [email protected], Gwen <willow_selene@...> wrote:
>
> Looking at it as being a "collector" instead of being needy can be helpful too.
>
> Megan is a collector. If there's something she's interested in, then she wants *all* of it. Over the years she's gotten more selective and discerning, which has been fascinating to watch.
>
> Zoe, on the other hand, so far seems to be happy with just one or two of a toy.
>
> Gwen
>
> --- On Sat, 4/10/10, plaidpanties666 <plaidpanties666@...> wrote:
>
> That's a good point. And while unschoolers generally are okay with the idea kids can be "needy" in emotional ways, I think its easy to forget that its possible to be "needy" in terms of having stuff or receiving gifts - partly because of a cultural assumption that that kind of "neediness" isn't real or important.
>
> ---Meredith
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Marla
Yeah, we hit all those places, including our local dump and the side of roads (especially after garage sales). We have a huge town-wide garage sale in May up here and the day after there is tons of free stuff.
Our oldest definitely is into saving and often gives to charity whenever she sees the opportunity. I'm not sure how much is maturity and how much is personality, but the difference is interesting.
Marla
Our oldest definitely is into saving and often gives to charity whenever she sees the opportunity. I'm not sure how much is maturity and how much is personality, but the difference is interesting.
Marla