concert for 11 y/o
Sharon Emerson
Hello Everyone,
My 11 y/o dtr wants to go to a Black Eyed Peas concert this summer. Hubby
says some of their music is explicit and banned for sale in some stores.
Anyone familiar with their music? Any thoughts or ideas about this?
Sharon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My 11 y/o dtr wants to go to a Black Eyed Peas concert this summer. Hubby
says some of their music is explicit and banned for sale in some stores.
Anyone familiar with their music? Any thoughts or ideas about this?
Sharon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
undermom
I'd suggest listening to the music yourself if you want to know what's in it. :) (The CD's are available through my library system, and quite likely yours, too) And talking to your daughter about why she wants to go to this particular concert. What has she heard? What other concerts has she been to? Who does she want to go to the concert with? Are you willing to go to the concert with her?
All of which is far more important than whether or not some particular store has banned something for sale. :)
All of which is far more important than whether or not some particular store has banned something for sale. :)
--- In [email protected], Sharon Emerson <1drflmthr@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Everyone,
> My 11 y/o dtr wants to go to a Black Eyed Peas concert this summer. Hubby
> says some of their music is explicit and banned for sale in some stores.
> Anyone familiar with their music? Any thoughts or ideas about this?
> Sharon
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Deb Lewis
***My 11 y/o dtr wants to go to a Black Eyed Peas concert this summer. Hubby says some of their music is explicit...***
If she's wanting to go to a Black Eyed Peas concert specifically then that probably means she's already heard them, right? She's already heard some of their lyrics? Watched videos? Concerts are so loud she probably won't hear the lyrics anyway. You kind of go to those for other reasons. <g>
Lyrics can be looked up online and read over and over again. Songs and videos can be found online and on TV. Staying home from a concert does not guarantee she won't hear those words.
It seems unlikely to me that she's never heard whatever the scary words are, never heard them put together in just a certain way before. My kid was pretty familiar with those words before he was three. I realize not every mother talks like a sailor. <g>
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If she's wanting to go to a Black Eyed Peas concert specifically then that probably means she's already heard them, right? She's already heard some of their lyrics? Watched videos? Concerts are so loud she probably won't hear the lyrics anyway. You kind of go to those for other reasons. <g>
Lyrics can be looked up online and read over and over again. Songs and videos can be found online and on TV. Staying home from a concert does not guarantee she won't hear those words.
It seems unlikely to me that she's never heard whatever the scary words are, never heard them put together in just a certain way before. My kid was pretty familiar with those words before he was three. I realize not every mother talks like a sailor. <g>
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Apr 6, 2010, at 12:13 PM, Sharon Emerson wrote:
YouTube. It will be a connection with her. (And you'll probably see
why she wants to go :-)
As for the lyrics, it's possible she doesn't pay much attention to
them. Even the lyrics she does, she may not be fully taking in what
they mean. Unless you start going over them with her and explaining ;-)
Control is an illusion. By saying no it would feel like protection
but it would be cutting off a connection with her that she'll find
other ways to satisfy, probably through friends.
Parents want no to mean "I love you," but it's rare when it does. Far
far more often it gets read as "I don't trust you. I don't think
you're strong enough to handle this." For some kids that's a
challenge to test themselves against. For others it means their
parents care more about their rules and ideals than they do about who
their kids are. (And part of who their kids are is what they enjoy.)
If you close the Black Eyed Peas door, you're cutting off part of
what makes unschooling special and taking a step on the path of
strained relationships most parents have with their kids. If you keep
the door open and explore a bit with her -- letting her be the guide
to show you what she likes -- you build on the relationship and
maintain her trust and your opinions will still count with her.
It's more than a matter or yes or no to the concert. It's a matter of
staying connected through sharing her interests or pulling away.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> My 11 y/o dtr wants to go to a Black Eyed Peas concert this summer.My thought is: start listening to their music. Watch videos on
> Hubby
> says some of their music is explicit and banned for sale in some
> stores.
> Anyone familiar with their music? Any thoughts or ideas about this?
YouTube. It will be a connection with her. (And you'll probably see
why she wants to go :-)
As for the lyrics, it's possible she doesn't pay much attention to
them. Even the lyrics she does, she may not be fully taking in what
they mean. Unless you start going over them with her and explaining ;-)
Control is an illusion. By saying no it would feel like protection
but it would be cutting off a connection with her that she'll find
other ways to satisfy, probably through friends.
Parents want no to mean "I love you," but it's rare when it does. Far
far more often it gets read as "I don't trust you. I don't think
you're strong enough to handle this." For some kids that's a
challenge to test themselves against. For others it means their
parents care more about their rules and ideals than they do about who
their kids are. (And part of who their kids are is what they enjoy.)
If you close the Black Eyed Peas door, you're cutting off part of
what makes unschooling special and taking a step on the path of
strained relationships most parents have with their kids. If you keep
the door open and explore a bit with her -- letting her be the guide
to show you what she likes -- you build on the relationship and
maintain her trust and your opinions will still count with her.
It's more than a matter or yes or no to the concert. It's a matter of
staying connected through sharing her interests or pulling away.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Faith Void Taintor
Can you download some of her faves and listen together? I went with my
daughter to concerts before, when she was younger. Now she goes with a
friend.
What are your concerns about it?
Faith
Sent from my iPhone
daughter to concerts before, when she was younger. Now she goes with a
friend.
What are your concerns about it?
Faith
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 6, 2010, at 12:13 PM, Sharon Emerson <1drflmthr@...> wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
> My 11 y/o dtr wants to go to a Black Eyed Peas concert this summer.
> Hubby
> says some of their music is explicit and banned for sale in some
> stores.
> Anyone familiar with their music? Any thoughts or ideas about this?
> Sharon
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sharon
Hey,
Thank you for your responses so far. Joyce, I agree wholeheartedly with what you said about the control, etc. I forwarded your response to my husband. I am all for going to the concert with my dtr. I didn't even second guess it until hubby spoke up. He is still stuck in fear and control mode sometimes. He also can get upset when I just go ahead and do things without consulting or considering his point of view. Understandable. Seems it is more an issue about us talking about it together and me explaining more of the RU concept. He is mostly on board with me, we just hit these bumps once in a while.
My dtr and I have listened and watched some of their songs on Youtube. We have also seen them perform on an awards show and on Oprah. I think it would be an awesome concert. I'd be curious to see what she thinks of the experience.
This afternoon I remembered that there is a live Black Eyed Peas concert playing in the movie theaters. I looked it up and unfortunately it was just last week on March 30th. Bummer!! My dtr says she would rather see a live concert anyway. She says she wants to see what it is like. I am honored that she wants to go with me. I never went to a rock concert with my mother. I never even considered asking her.
Thanks again.
Sharon
Thank you for your responses so far. Joyce, I agree wholeheartedly with what you said about the control, etc. I forwarded your response to my husband. I am all for going to the concert with my dtr. I didn't even second guess it until hubby spoke up. He is still stuck in fear and control mode sometimes. He also can get upset when I just go ahead and do things without consulting or considering his point of view. Understandable. Seems it is more an issue about us talking about it together and me explaining more of the RU concept. He is mostly on board with me, we just hit these bumps once in a while.
My dtr and I have listened and watched some of their songs on Youtube. We have also seen them perform on an awards show and on Oprah. I think it would be an awesome concert. I'd be curious to see what she thinks of the experience.
This afternoon I remembered that there is a live Black Eyed Peas concert playing in the movie theaters. I looked it up and unfortunately it was just last week on March 30th. Bummer!! My dtr says she would rather see a live concert anyway. She says she wants to see what it is like. I am honored that she wants to go with me. I never went to a rock concert with my mother. I never even considered asking her.
Thanks again.
Sharon
JOHN
> What are your concerns about it?Hi all,
> Faith
I'm the hubby in question and just wanted to get honest. I admit the "control" aspect of my response. It's fear. I am scared that my innocent, precious little girl will actually grow up and learn about the pain in this world, the pain that has touched me, that has undoubtedly touched so many of us. Maybe its instinct gone awry. As her father, I want to protect her, shield her, never see that spark of wonder leave her brilliant eyes. But who am I to do that? If I am acting out of my own fears, I am doing it for completely selfish reasons. If I can stop her from learning about sex, or swear words, or violence, misogyny, terror, hate, racism, drugs, addiction, abuse, rape, suffering, and so much more, I can somehow save her. But it is really me I want to save.
I know I know I know... I have to let her go. I have to release her into this world and allow her to be herself. "But not yet" I scream inside. She's too young, she's only 11! She should know nothing of Sept 11, she shouldn't know of war or suicide or genocide. Not until she's 16. Or maybe 21. How about 30.
Every day I walk this unschooling path is another day of encountering myself. Facing what I hate about myself, facing the foundation of my fears. It comes up when I feel the resistance. Then I see my chance to right all the wrongs done to me, and I turn to my children. No, I can't use them for that. They can not be my redeemers, and I can not be their savior.
But why does it hurt so much? To let go? My wife knows the "look" all too well. When something comes on the TV, I look at her with the "change the channel" look, or the "why are you letting her watch this are you crazy" look. I mean, isn't my wife supposed to be with me on this?
We all like the main-stream Black Eyed Peas songs, but I don't think any of us has heard much more of their stuff. They let the s**t and f**k words fly. Will my daughter start saying "f**k" every time she drops something, in the same self-punishing way that I sometimes do (I never swear around my kids, mostly at work). I don't want her to hate herself for dropping something.
Listen to me! OMG the control! I have no control over whether she hates herself! What I can control is me (and even that has its limits). Control IS an illusion. It keeps me in a false world, one that *I* create. In that world, I know what's coming next. In that world, I can keep the pain away.
I'm unlearning 40 years of doing it the way I've been doing it. Maybe during the next 40 years, I'll have unlearned all of it, so I can start fresh. By then, my kids will have kids (or not), and I'll have fully embraced the gift of letting go. Until then, I'll keep taking the steps. Things like this concert might just end up being my unteachers. And who knows, maybe it won't take 40 years to unlearn.
Thanks for letting me get this out.
-john
Tina Tarbutton
>When I cuss, it's not in a self punishing way, even when I drop something
> They let the s**t and f**k words fly. Will my daughter start saying "f**k"
> every time she drops something, in the same self-punishing way that I
> sometimes do (I never swear around my kids, mostly at work). I don't want
> her to hate herself for dropping something.
>
(which happens often) or when I hurt myself (which I believe happens even
more often). I do cuss a lot though, a WHOLE lot. I cuss around my 10 y/o
son, and more recently have told him that he's allowed to cuss. He still
hasn't chosen to say any "real" cuss words, but I do hear crap a little more
often, and I think he said something sucked the other day. I'm interested
to see what my gut reaction is the first time he cusses "for real". I know
if he directs it at someone in a mean way I will be upset, but since I don't
use words to hurt people (including myself), he typically doesn't either.
When I let the F word fly because I've dropped something or hurt myself,
it's typically out of shock, or pain, not because I'm angry with myself. I
tend to play with the words, combining them with other words, and have some
pretty interesting words that I use for different situations.
Even before unschooling we didn't censor very much of the music he listens
to. I like rap, and pop and the "popular" music that's out now, and Parker
likes more Rock, but not quite as heavy as the rock his dad likes which goes
all the way to "death metal". I occasionally throw some country in there,
and we also like music from the Renaissance festivals, so Draven has a
pretty diverse palate to chose from. Most of what we listen to ends up
having some cussing, some talk of sex, some talk of violence, or some talk
of drugs. I think very few popular songs today are without one of the
previous. Some of the songs we're used to listening to on the radio, we
don't like as much once we hear them uncensored. Some we like more.
Sometimes we talk about why the artist used that particular word there, and
why we think it sounds better on the censored version. Sometimes we
discuss how the censoring can totally change the meaning for a particular
song.
Has your daughter heard the uncensored versions of those songs. Does she
still like them once they aren't the same song she's heard on the radio?
Draven has been going to concerts with us since he was 6 or so. He still
talks about all of them. He has amazing memories of seeing the musicians he
loves actually preforming live. In most cases he's gotten to meet them, and
get autographs and shake their hand. Some of them played songs that he
didn't like, so we'd walk out of the area for awhile. Some of them were
very loud, so we always brought ear plugs. Sometimes the crowd got a little
too rough for him during certain songs, so we moved to the back, or used
that time to take a bathroom break. He doesn't remember the loudness, or
the songs they sang, or the few times I'd pick him up in a rush and get him
out of the area because I didn't like the way the crowd was moving. He
remembers the lights, and the people on stage, and the people around him,
and he REALLY remembers shaking the artists hands and telling them his
favorite song, and typically he also remembers getting complimented on
his Mohawk by the artist (which tends to be his hairstyle of choice when
we're going to a concert).
She's going to remember the parts she enjoys, the cussing really won't
matter. It'll be the atmosphere, all of the sights and sounds and smells
and just the feel of being at a concert.
Tina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
I can tell a Black-Eyed Peas story. I actually have one to hand. This is from when Linnaea was 5 or 6 and My Humps had come out. My dad was visiting and Linnaea was finding all the magical things she had, all the bits of treasure that she filled her life with and sharing them. So she and my dad danced together on dance mats to a Mario game for the gamecube and she showed him her dogs on nintendogs and she showed him walks we took and she brought him flowers. It was this showering of love and wanting him to love her back. Among her treasures was the video My Humps on the computer. David and I and other friends of ours had thought it was such a funny video, it was good musically and there was, in my interpretation, a tongue in cheek nature to the described crassness of the relationship between men and women. My dad was appalled. He took me aside and questioned how we could allow my daughter access to such misogynist videos. I was livid and decided it was a
good time to take the dog for a walk. And I thought about it, and I saw all that she had done, all the jewels she'd polished and made dazzle to show to him. And I was hurt for her because of his inability to trust her enjoyment of something not taking away from her love of herself.
Linnaea is not now, nor has she ever been, a wallflower. She is bold and brassy and absolutely able to speak of her needs and her self. Over the few days that he'd already been with us she'd been involved with conversations where she'd spoken up about women not tolerating men's dominance. In fearing for her safety, her fragile sense of self, my father had missed the greater picture of who Linnaea was, of who Linnaea is. Linnaea's life is full of things that support her feeling good about herself. And she does. She likes herself and is more comfortable with herself than most women I know and she's 10. When she was 5 or 6, the fear of a song about breasts and butts being used to get jewels and clothes, well, I don't think that was the way she heard that song. She saw it as a fun song to dance with and she wanted to dance with her grandpa. And of course there is the irony in my dad's love of A Chorus Line, and the song Tits and Ass (Dance Ten Looks Three)
which he never commented on as I sang along to the record in the tv room. Same message, same cynicism.
Linnaea is buffered not by my censorship, not by my controlling what she hears or sees or conceptualises, but by her loving and supportive and nurturing environment. All of the things I could limit and control exist and can be found if I am inattentive in my vigilance even for a moment and then they become things to hide and to feel guilty about. But if I am there with her, if I am watching South Park with her and talking about why that line makes me squeamish and still makes me laugh or if I'm there laughing over My Humps or if I'm supportive of whatever, well then it is an open exchange of ideas and opinions and taste. And she gets to share with me and trust me to trust her and her strength and her love of her self. It isn't so scary a world if you are invited to come along. But if you shut the gate to their experience, no one is gonna invite you to come as they leap the fence when you aren't looking.
Schuyler
________________________________
Listen to me! OMG the control! I have no control over whether she hates herself! What I can control is me (and even that has its limits). Control IS an illusion. It keeps me in a false world, one that *I* create. In that world, I know what's coming next. In that world, I can keep the pain away.
I'm unlearning 40 years of doing it the way I've been doing it. Maybe during the next 40 years, I'll have unlearned all of it, so I can start fresh. By then, my kids will have kids (or not), and I'll have fully embraced the gift of letting go. Until then, I'll keep taking the steps. Things like this concert might just end up being my unteachers. And who knows, maybe it won't take 40 years to unlearn.
Thanks for letting me get this out.
-
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
good time to take the dog for a walk. And I thought about it, and I saw all that she had done, all the jewels she'd polished and made dazzle to show to him. And I was hurt for her because of his inability to trust her enjoyment of something not taking away from her love of herself.
Linnaea is not now, nor has she ever been, a wallflower. She is bold and brassy and absolutely able to speak of her needs and her self. Over the few days that he'd already been with us she'd been involved with conversations where she'd spoken up about women not tolerating men's dominance. In fearing for her safety, her fragile sense of self, my father had missed the greater picture of who Linnaea was, of who Linnaea is. Linnaea's life is full of things that support her feeling good about herself. And she does. She likes herself and is more comfortable with herself than most women I know and she's 10. When she was 5 or 6, the fear of a song about breasts and butts being used to get jewels and clothes, well, I don't think that was the way she heard that song. She saw it as a fun song to dance with and she wanted to dance with her grandpa. And of course there is the irony in my dad's love of A Chorus Line, and the song Tits and Ass (Dance Ten Looks Three)
which he never commented on as I sang along to the record in the tv room. Same message, same cynicism.
Linnaea is buffered not by my censorship, not by my controlling what she hears or sees or conceptualises, but by her loving and supportive and nurturing environment. All of the things I could limit and control exist and can be found if I am inattentive in my vigilance even for a moment and then they become things to hide and to feel guilty about. But if I am there with her, if I am watching South Park with her and talking about why that line makes me squeamish and still makes me laugh or if I'm there laughing over My Humps or if I'm supportive of whatever, well then it is an open exchange of ideas and opinions and taste. And she gets to share with me and trust me to trust her and her strength and her love of her self. It isn't so scary a world if you are invited to come along. But if you shut the gate to their experience, no one is gonna invite you to come as they leap the fence when you aren't looking.
Schuyler
________________________________
Listen to me! OMG the control! I have no control over whether she hates herself! What I can control is me (and even that has its limits). Control IS an illusion. It keeps me in a false world, one that *I* create. In that world, I know what's coming next. In that world, I can keep the pain away.
I'm unlearning 40 years of doing it the way I've been doing it. Maybe during the next 40 years, I'll have unlearned all of it, so I can start fresh. By then, my kids will have kids (or not), and I'll have fully embraced the gift of letting go. Until then, I'll keep taking the steps. Things like this concert might just end up being my unteachers. And who knows, maybe it won't take 40 years to unlearn.
Thanks for letting me get this out.
-
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Faith Void Taintor
On Apr 7, 2010, at 1:34 AM, "JOHN" <ygroups@...> wrote:
her spark to fizzle. I think feeling control, untrusted, shieled, and
boxed in would dull the shine.
There is things that hurt in the world. They are a part of this life.
I want my children to feel safe in this world so we give them a place
to come to when they need it. The world and all it's slendor and gore
are there for them to see. If they need help processing or
understanding I'm there (or papa or a good friend).
Imagine how a child might feel if you 'protected' them from these
things. Imagine sending a grown child into the world not knowing these
things, not feeling secure with their own abilities to cope with or
process through hard things. That seems less like protection for them
but protection for you to not have to deal with hard stuff.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
loosely but not out of hatred for myself. They're just some colorful
words I know. And I have a huge vocabulary so that's not an issue
either. My 3 have never had any stigma or rules about words. We've
talked about curse words, explained them. None of my kids have sailor
mouth. Though it seems that when groups of kids get together there is
more cursing then usual.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We were listening to her iPod on the car stereo and taking about
deeper issues within songs. It was so cool to hear her perspective.
Have you listened to your child? What's their take on these issues?
Faith
> > What are your concerns about it?***I think that learning these things exsist isn't what would cause
> > Faith
>
> Hi all,
> I'm the hubby in question and just wanted to get honest. I admit the
> "control" aspect of my response. It's fear. I am scared that my
> innocent, precious little girl will actually grow up and learn about
> the pain in this world, the pain that has touched me, that has
> undoubtedly touched so many of us. Maybe its instinct gone awry. As
> her father, I want to protect her, shield her, never see that spark
> of wonder leave her brilliant eyes. But who am I to do that? If I am
> acting out of my own fears, I am doing it for completely selfish
> reasons. If I can stop her from learning about sex, or swear words,
> or violence, misogyny, terror, hate, racism, drugs, addiction,
> abuse, rape, suffering, and so much more, I can somehow save her.
> But it is really me I want to save.
>
her spark to fizzle. I think feeling control, untrusted, shieled, and
boxed in would dull the shine.
There is things that hurt in the world. They are a part of this life.
I want my children to feel safe in this world so we give them a place
to come to when they need it. The world and all it's slendor and gore
are there for them to see. If they need help processing or
understanding I'm there (or papa or a good friend).
Imagine how a child might feel if you 'protected' them from these
things. Imagine sending a grown child into the world not knowing these
things, not feeling secure with their own abilities to cope with or
process through hard things. That seems less like protection for them
but protection for you to not have to deal with hard stuff.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>****it's time when she is ready.
> I know I know I know... I have to let her go. I have to release her
> into this world and allow her to be herself. "But not yet" I scream
> inside. She's too young, she's only 11! She should know nothing of
> Sept 11, she shouldn't know of war or suicide or genocide. Not until
> she's 16. Or maybe 21. How about 30
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Every day I walk this unschooling path is another day of***I don't think all people who curse hate themselves. I curse fairly
> encountering myself. Facing what I hate about myself, facing the
> foundation of my fears. It comes up when I feel the resistance. Then
> I see my chance to right all the wrongs done to me, and I turn to my
> children. No, I can't use them for that. They can not be my
> redeemers, and I can not be their savior.
> But why does it hurt so much? To let go? My wife knows the "look"
> all too well. When something comes on the TV, I look at her with the
> "change the channel" look, or the "why are you letting her watch
> this are you crazy" look. I mean, isn't my wife supposed to be with
> me on this?
> We all like the main-stream Black Eyed Peas songs, but I don't think
> any of us has heard much more of their stuff. They let the s**t and
> f**k words fly. Will my daughter start saying "f**k" every time she
> drops something, in the same self-punishing way that I sometimes do
> (I never swear around my kids, mostly at work). I don't want her to
> hate herself for dropping something.
>
loosely but not out of hatred for myself. They're just some colorful
words I know. And I have a huge vocabulary so that's not an issue
either. My 3 have never had any stigma or rules about words. We've
talked about curse words, explained them. None of my kids have sailor
mouth. Though it seems that when groups of kids get together there is
more cursing then usual.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>***this reminds me of a talk I had with my daughter when she was 12. http://bearthmama.com/2009/04/co-dependent-music/
> Listen to me! OMG the control! I have no control over whether she
> hates herself! What I can control is me (and even that has its
> limits). Control IS an illusion. It keeps me in a false world, one
> that *I* create. In that world, I know what's coming next. In that
> world, I can keep the pain away.
> I'm unlearning 40 years of doing it the way I've been doing it.
> Maybe during the next 40 years, I'll have unlearned all of it, so I
> can start fresh. By then, my kids will have kids (or not), and I'll
> have fully embraced the gift of letting go. Until then, I'll keep
> taking the steps. Things like this concert might just end up being
> my unteachers. And who knows, maybe it won't take 40 years to unlearn.
> Thanks for letting me get this out.
> -john
>
>
We were listening to her iPod on the car stereo and taking about
deeper issues within songs. It was so cool to hear her perspective.
Have you listened to your child? What's their take on these issues?
Faith
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
Steven Fry has a wonderful little diatribe on how swearing isn't about a lack of education. It's lovely: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_osQvkeNRM
Oh, and a wonderful video on the word fuck: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqnvxP0H3lM&feature=related. Very, very explicit.
Schuyler
________________________________
loosely but not out of hatred for myself. They're just some colorful
words I know. And I have a huge vocabulary so that's not an issue
either. My 3 have never had any stigma or rules about words. We've
talked about curse words, explained them. None of my kids have sailor
mouth. Though it seems that when groups of kids get together there is
more cursing then usual.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Oh, and a wonderful video on the word fuck: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqnvxP0H3lM&feature=related. Very, very explicit.
Schuyler
________________________________
> We all like the main-stream Black Eyed Peas songs, but I don't think***I don't think all people who curse hate themselves. I curse fairly
> any of us has heard much more of their stuff. They let the s**t and
> f**k words fly. Will my daughter start saying "f**k" every time she
> drops something, in the same self-punishing way that I sometimes do
> (I never swear around my kids, mostly at work). I don't want her to
> hate herself for dropping something.
>
loosely but not out of hatred for myself. They're just some colorful
words I know. And I have a huge vocabulary so that's not an issue
either. My 3 have never had any stigma or rules about words. We've
talked about curse words, explained them. None of my kids have sailor
mouth. Though it seems that when groups of kids get together there is
more cursing then usual.
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plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], Faith Void Taintor <littlemsvoid@...> wrote:
At the same time, he's had more access to videos, music, computers, games, literature - all the things people fear will hurt their kids. Those things haven't hurt him the way being stuck in a situation he couldn't leave did. Being stuck with limited options is worse than knowing that humanity isn't always lovely.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
>> ***I think that learning these things exsist isn't what would causeMy 16yo, Ray, went through homeschool and school before unschooling, and I got to see a lot of his spark fizzle, got to see him grow cynical and sarcastic and closed off. A lot of that's gone away - although he still has a store of cynicism and sarcasm he can pull out when its appropriate, those no longer dominate his reactions. He's gotten sweeter and more open, found more fun and joy in the world.
> her spark to fizzle. I think feeling control, untrusted, shieled, and
> boxed in would dull the shine.
At the same time, he's had more access to videos, music, computers, games, literature - all the things people fear will hurt their kids. Those things haven't hurt him the way being stuck in a situation he couldn't leave did. Being stuck with limited options is worse than knowing that humanity isn't always lovely.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
Jenna Robertson
John,
My oldest daughter was in school through 6th grade (12yrs) and she learned all the words, and much about things I would have then wanted to protect her from, at school or from on-line communities. She went through a swearing phase, seems to happen around here when they hit middle school - if they go to school. In book club they read a book that lead us to a discussion of what "Playboy" magazine was. If you daughter were in school she'd be exposed to all that and you wouldn't have control then either.
It would have been a lot better for all of us if our oldest been experiencing much of that at home or w/ her family or through her own choosing, and not because it was thrown at her on a daily basis in the school environment.
The irony seems to be that my younger two don't like it when people use "bad words" around them (their big sister was always sensitive to that :) and seem to be growing up much more slowly even though they are exposed to a lot because they have a big sister and parents who are trying not to control them :). And because they aren't in school they can decide when they want to learn about things that are out there and I get to trust that they'll follow their own time line and learn more about things as they are ready.
:)
Jenna
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My oldest daughter was in school through 6th grade (12yrs) and she learned all the words, and much about things I would have then wanted to protect her from, at school or from on-line communities. She went through a swearing phase, seems to happen around here when they hit middle school - if they go to school. In book club they read a book that lead us to a discussion of what "Playboy" magazine was. If you daughter were in school she'd be exposed to all that and you wouldn't have control then either.
It would have been a lot better for all of us if our oldest been experiencing much of that at home or w/ her family or through her own choosing, and not because it was thrown at her on a daily basis in the school environment.
The irony seems to be that my younger two don't like it when people use "bad words" around them (their big sister was always sensitive to that :) and seem to be growing up much more slowly even though they are exposed to a lot because they have a big sister and parents who are trying not to control them :). And because they aren't in school they can decide when they want to learn about things that are out there and I get to trust that they'll follow their own time line and learn more about things as they are ready.
:)
Jenna
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plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], Jenna Robertson <mamamole@...> wrote:
This is something I've noticed with Morgan, too - or maybe more gently is a better way of putting it, and she really is exposed to a whole lot of things that raise people's eyebrows (I mean in terms of media). Compared to the 8yos I meet who are in school she seems much softer, more child-like. That's kind of sad when you think about it - not Morgan, but the fact that other kids her age have lost a substantial amount of that "childlike" quality without that loss being inevitable at their age.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
>> The irony seems to be that my younger two ... seem to be growing up much more slowly even though they are exposed to a lot********************
This is something I've noticed with Morgan, too - or maybe more gently is a better way of putting it, and she really is exposed to a whole lot of things that raise people's eyebrows (I mean in terms of media). Compared to the 8yos I meet who are in school she seems much softer, more child-like. That's kind of sad when you think about it - not Morgan, but the fact that other kids her age have lost a substantial amount of that "childlike" quality without that loss being inevitable at their age.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)