becca

Hi folks, sometimes I step away from reading on the unschooling lists than I find myself slipping in a less than peaceful fashion of raising my beautiful boys. So here are some things that have arose and need to address for myself so I can self correct and find more peaceful solutions.

1. during the winter here we have all fell into lots of tv watching and computer time... (mom on computer and the boys -- but the tv almost always on for the boys..) Now I don't really have a real problem with tv -- but I feel that I have became dependent/complacent. Feel I should be offering more creatativity and playful things for my 7 and 4 year old boys... I had this vision when we started unschooling solidly this year (been back in forth with it -- went to ps last year for kindergarten..)... that we would spend tons of time creating , crafting, reading, making projects etc -- so far not so much -- feel we all just kind of do our own thing and go occasionally to a homeschool group function etc.. So I guess question here is am I putting to much expectation on myself and my kids?

2. my 4 year old is just so 'emotional' (much like me for sure!) .. I think that I've pegged that his personality is choleric (personality plus by rohn) and that personality is a leader and wants his own way and if he doesn't it maddening to him..

ie. when friends are over he wants to dominate almost everything. for example he's watching tv on the tv in living room. older son and friend come in and want to play the wii on this tv -- so we ask garrett and suggest that he can either watch and play wii with them or he can go in his bedroom and watch his tv in there (was said like a consequence or demand just suggestion) he blows up and I end up putting him in his room and shutting door (Yes , I know not a great solution -- but I'm stretched with patience on this and I'm trying not to overreact too....)
another example, he's doing his own thing.. I or anyone goes to to computer and once again now he wants it!! and a fit occurs

I know most of these things are age related and I've recognized that I am not being as attentive as I should be with my children .. so what are suggestions to help us through this stage of our relationship

My reaction is all wrong most of the time --I end up yelling too --- so I know that I am being ridiculous -- I even feel the 'slap' in my face when I say something like "quit your crying/yelling"

Plus I know he has the right to feel these emotions -- I don't want to stifle them but I just cringe and instantly get so agitated inside when he whines, screams, throws a fit

I try ignore the situation but staying in his sight... I try to compromise , sometimes it feels like he is just so unreasonable -- how do we reason with a 4 year old

I feel I should know how since I've already had 1 boy but they are 2 different personalities -- Ian was much more laid back --- but I do remember having 'problems' with him when he was younger and not knowing what to do -- (thus that is when I started trying some unschooling ideas)


So with all this said --- please send any suggestions you may have -- I know that I could look back in archives and probably find answers -- but needed to write this out in order to release... do I makes sense??

[email protected]

-- "when friends are over he wants to dominate almost everything. for
example he's watching tv on the tv in living room. older son and friend come in
and want to play the wii on this tv -- so we ask garrett and suggest that
he can either watch and play wii with them or he can go in his bedroom and
watch his tv in there " --

This section immediately jumps out at me. Why are you asking the 4 year
old to immediately stop what he is doing for the sake of his brother and
friend? What I do when issues like this pop up (I have four kids) is tell the
child using the tv that when their show ends X and Y would like to play on
the Wii. Would you like to play with them or would you like to find something
else to do. (If they seem interested in other options I give suggestions.)
If the child is adament about watching more than one episode than I ask if
they would not mind moving upstairs. ("Can you and I go upstairs and
snuggle under the blankets and watch another episode of Spongebob upstairs?") If
he still continues to say that he will only accept that tv then I would
tell the other boys to find something else to do until the tv is available.

I think it is really important to not act like a young child's wishes are
less important than their older siblings. This is something that is a
priority for me.

As for computers we all have our own computers here, I know this isn't
always an option for many families but these days you can get basic systems for
very little money and let me tell you, playing multi player games as a
family online simultaneously is SO much fun!

My kids are 10,8,5 and 2.

I also think that putting him in his room and shutting the door would only
escalate his feelings of anger.

Those are my initial (rambling) thoughts. I hope some of them are helpful.



ie. when friends are over he wants to dominate almost everything. for
example he's watching tv on the tv in living room. older son and friend come in
and want to play the wii on this tv -- so we ask garrett and suggest that
he can either watch and play wii with them or he can go in his bedroom and
watch his tv in there (was said like a consequence or demand just
suggestion) he blows up and I end up putting him in his room and shutting door (Yes
, I know not a great solution -- but I'm stretched with patience on this
and I'm trying not to overreact too....)
another example, he's doing his own thing.. I or anyone goes to to
computer and once again now he wants it!! and a fit occurs


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otherstar

>>>> 1. during the winter here we have all fell into lots of tv watching and computer time.....So I guess question here is am I putting to much expectation on myself and my kids?<<<<<

If everyone is enjoying it, then I don't see a problem with it. Are you offering to do other stuff? Sometimes I will get off the computer and ask if anyone wants to help me make cookies. Or, when we go to the store, the kids will pick out craft stuff that looks interesting to them. Then, I leave it out on the table for them so that we don't forget about it. Sometimes, we do watch a lot of TV and play computer. I think that the important thing is that you try to mix it up from time to time.

>>>>>2. my 4 year old is just so 'emotional' (much like me for sure!) .. I think that I've pegged that his personality is choleric (personality plus by rohn) and that personality is a leader and wants his own way and if he doesn't it maddening to him.<<<<<<

This jumped out at me because I have a 5 year old that feels things more deeply than most people. I had to stop thinking of her in terms like that and instead think of her as her own unique person. It's not that she is emotional. It is that she feels things more deeply. Imagine how you feel when your feelings get hurt, then multiply it times ten. Does he want his own way or does he want to feel like he has some kind of control over his own life? My 5 year old doesn't really want her own way, she just wants to feel valued and wants to feel like people hear what she is saying. She will often time repeat things over and over and we have to continually reassure her that "Yes, we heard you." It is hard to always be patient and understand but it gets easier with time, especially if you try to focus on the positive or at least try to phrase things more positively when talking about or thinking about your child.

>>>>>>ie. when friends are over he wants to dominate almost everything. for example he's watching tv on the tv in living room. older son and friend come in and want to play the wii on this tv -- so we ask garrett and suggest that he can either watch and play wii with them or he can go in his bedroom and watch his tv in there (was said like a consequence or demand just suggestion) he blows up and I end up putting him in his room and shutting door (Yes , I know not a great solution -- but I'm stretched with patience on this and I'm trying not to overreact too....)<<<<<<

Why does he have to stop what he is doing to accommodate his big brother? I would blow up too if somebody told me to stop what I was doing without giving me any consideration. Moving to another room when in the middle of watching a TV show can really throw off my rhythm for some reason. There is also the possibility that he doesn't want to switch rooms because he wants to be closer to you and everyone else rather than being alone in his room.

>>>>>>another example, he's doing his own thing.. I or anyone goes to to computer and once again now he wants it!! and a fit occurs<<<<<<<

Are you near him when he is doing his own thing? I ask because he may just want to be near you.

Something that jumps out at me in your post is that it sounds like your four year old son has very little control of his surroundings because he has to accommodate everyone else. I am not sure how to explain it but it seems that he just wants to do something without being interrupted. He wants to be able to decide to do something and then be able to do it. I find that I sometimes get annoyed when I go to use the computer and somebody is on it. I was thinking about getting on it but didn't say anything because I got sidetracked doing something else. Then, when I see somebody else get on it, I feel a little frustrated because I didn't say anything and I really did want to use it. I feel like there is always a competition for the computers. I wonder if this is what your son is feeling but can't verbalize.

>>>>>>>>I know most of these things are age related and I've recognized that I am not being as attentive as I should be with my children .. so what are suggestions to help us through this stage of our relationship<<<<<<<

Actually, I don't think that they are age related at all. Nothing bugs me more than when people attribute a child's behavior to the age without looking at other factors. I remember being a teen and having some issues but nobody bothered to try to help me because my struggles were attributed to my age. Having said that, it is important to know what is age appropriate. It is not age appropriate to expect a 4 year old to accommodate his big brother. I don't know too many 4 year olds that like watching TV all alone in a bedroom. All four of my kids like being around me and other people. Even if we aren't interacting and are all doing our own thing, we are usually in the same room together. Is there a way that you can rearrange the house so that you all can spend more time together while in the same room? I have a TV/computer room where we have the TV, a bunch of toys, and a computer station with 2 computers. My 1 year old and 2 year old can be playing with the toys near me or watching TV. My 8 year old is on the computer next to me and my 5 year old is watching TV and playing with her toys. I might stop what I am doing to talk to my oldest about her game or I might stop to see what my 5 year old is doing and talk to her about it. Or, I may get up and let my 5 year old have the computer. The point is that we have things set up so that everyone can do their own thing in the same room together.

>>>>>>Plus I know he has the right to feel these emotions -- I don't want to stifle them but I just cringe and instantly get so agitated inside when he whines, screams, throws a fit<<<<<<

With a 4 year old, prevention is the best approach. If he wasn't constantly being frustrated by being ignored or required to accommodate everyone else, his emotional outbursts would decrease dramatically if you could find a way to offer him more choice. When one of us goes to get on the computer, we try to announce it and make sure that nobody is surprised. I know that my 5 year old tends to get really emotional when she feels like she is being ignored or is not being valued. I wake her up every morning to watch her favorite show. Today is Saturday and her show isn't on so I didn't wake her up. I didn't think anything about it. She woke up very upset and very agitated. My first instinct was to get mad because I am not a mind reader. However, I caught myself and apologized to her and said that I would wake her up tomorrow even though her show isn't on. My waking her up makes her feel like I am thinking about her and giving her attention.

>>>>>I try ignore the situation but staying in his sight... I try to compromise , sometimes it feels like he is just so unreasonable -- how do we reason with a 4 year old<<<<<

Four year olds don't have a lot of reasoning abilities. You are the adult. You are the one that has to be reasonable. It took me a while to have more realistic expectations of my little ones. Once I realized that the outbursts and lack of reason were normal, it was much easier to handle. I find that mainstream parents tend to have unrealistic expectations of kids and their behavior. If I am not careful, those unrealistic expectations will creep in.

>>>>>>>I feel I should know how since I've already had 1 boy but they are 2 different personalities -- Ian was much more laid back --- but I do remember having 'problems' with him when he was younger and not knowing what to do -- (thus that is when I started trying some unschooling ideas)<<<<<<<

Every child is unique. I have four children and every single one of them is slightly different. When my second daughter came along, I felt some of the same things that you have mentioned here. She was the complete opposite of her big sister and needed a lot more than I was used to giving.

Connie

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Schuyler

"my 4 year old is just so 'emotional' (much like me for sure!) .. I think that I've pegged that his personality is choleric (personality plus by
rohn) and that personality is a leader and wants his own way and if he
doesn't it maddening to him.."

I think most people I know must be choleric. If I want my way and don't get it I can be quite difficult about it. Surely learning to adapt your plans to changes is asking alot of a 4 year old if this 41 year old still has to breathe to change streams. It would probably help a lot not to worry about whether he's choleric or consumptive or whatever other kinds of personality there are. Probably better to figure out what it is he wants and needs and do what you can to help achieve that and when you can't to help him to ride through the disappointment.

It's up to you to offer cool and engaging things to do. We've done a lot of cool stuff while the television has been on. Television can be a wonderful background noise, that can momentarily distract or engage, and then drop back to a background level. Waiting for them to turn of the television and ask to do crafts and reading and projects may end up with more of a life filled with seperation than a life filled with connections and cool moments of engagement all round.


" ie. when friends are over he wants to dominate almost everything. for example he's watching tv on the tv in living room. older son and friend come in and want to play the wii on this tv -- so we ask garrett and
suggest that he can either watch and play wii with them or he can go in
his bedroom and watch his tv in there (was said like a consequence or
demand just suggestion) he blows up and I end up putting him in his room and shutting door (Yes , I know not a great solution -- but I'm
stretched with patience on this and I'm trying not to overreact
too....) "

If someone here has the television and someone else wants it, they have to ask and to wait. Whomever is currently engaged gets to stay engaged. If Linnaea was watching something and Simon wanted to watch something else, either she'd be amenable, or she'd have the right to continue watching her show. I've moved a console to accomodate Simon's or Linnaea's desire to play a game while someone else is watching television.

"so we ask garrett and
suggest that he can either watch and play wii with them or he can go in
his bedroom and watch his tv in there (was said like a consequence or
demand just suggestion) he blows up and I end up putting him in his room and shutting door "

So, not a suggestion? He doesn't have the option to say "I'm gonna keep watching this show"? Given the choices he has to choose between them and not go with what he's already doing? Getting pissed off seems a fourth option, and the one he's taking when his desire to keep watching isn't being met. Maybe see the others as the invaders and him as the resident who gets to accomodate them as best as he is willing to. You mention the other television, can you hook the wii up to that television? That's another option. Let the invaders go with the less accomodating space.

"another example, he's doing his own thing.. I or anyone goes to to
computer and once again now he wants it!! and a fit occurs "

Spend more time with him. If at 4 he's doing his own thing too much it may mean that he is needy for attention. Give him more attention. Do more with him. If you are on the computer and he wants to be invite him onto your lap, or pull up another chair, and find a website he loves and spend time, the two of you, just playing together. The more time you spend with him, the more you share stuff and give instead of pull back from, the less he'll be frustrated and angry and the less he'll feel a need to hold on to all the things that he sees as special now. 4 needs a lot of time, a lot of attention. You wrote:
"during the winter here we have all fell into lots of tv watching and
computer time... (mom on computer and the boys -- but the tv almost
always on for the boys..) Now I don't really have a real problem with
tv -- but I feel that I have became dependent/complacent. Feel I should be offering more creatativity and playful things for my 7 and 4 year
old boys..."
So, shake off your complacency and start doing more, being more engaged with your boys. It will help.

Schuyler


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plaidpanties666

--- In [email protected], "becca" <rebeccadehate@...> wrote:
>> 1. during the winter here we have all fell into lots of tv watching and computer time...
**************

We get a certain amount seasonal "staleness" around here - the end of winter and the end of summer are often kind of low energy, hanging out in the house times. As the season changes and the weather improves I often make a big effort to find more new and fun things to do outside, and bring more fun inside, too. By now I'm used to the seasonal nature of our life, so it doesn't stress me the way it used to.

> sometimes it feels like he is just so unreasonable -- how do we reason with a 4 year old
************

Trying to "reason with" young children often doesn't work very well, and trying to reason with anyone, of any age, who's already upset doesn't tend to work either. The more you can be present with him the more you'll be able to have a sense of his needs - you'll know when he's getting cranky bc he's hungry, or if he's been getting frustrated by a toy or game or whatever. As you get better at predicting those, you can start to be proactive - to head things off at the pass, as it were, by offering food before he's cranky, helping him deal with frustrations, helping him get other needs met before they blow up to the point of Waaaa! I'm so stressed out I can't Think!
(which means you won't get to that point as often either, its a win-win).

> My reaction is all wrong most of the time

That's one of the problems with "reacting" - when things fall apart, it can seem like there aren't any "good" solutions. Probably the hardest parenting skill for me to learn was to be more proactive - thinking and planning ahead. When you're used to parently reactively (and that's the norm, what you see most other parents doing, and how you were likely raised) then trying to think ahead can feel like a massive task. Things seem to blow up out of nowhere! But you can look for things you already know to help you out. Knowing your little guy has Biiiiig emotions, you can look for ways to be considerate of his feelings - and stopping and thinking before asking him to change what he's doing is a good way to do that. Knowing he likes to feel "in charge" you can offer him chances to do that, too - ask for his input, let him make more decisions. Knowing *you're* not meeting his attention needs as well as you might, look for more ways to do that. I bet there are other things - things that he often does - that you can think of where a little proactivity can help prevent some melt-downs. If you can think of situations, but not what to do about them, ask here, by all means!

It takes some learning and practice to get to a point where you're parenting mostly proactively, but it definitely makes for a more peaceful life once you've gotten into the habit - even in a family of people with big needs, big emotions and big opinions (like mine!).

---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)