what can I healthily protect my child from?
aimeemwheeler
Hi all. I would greatly appreciate some insight and perspective from some experienced unschoolers on a question that has come up for us. Sorry for the cross post if you see this on other groups. A bit of background that may be helpful... I work 2 days a week, when I am not home our son is with his nanny who is like his best playmate, we are either very early in a pregnancy or will be getting pregnant soon which is why I am contemplating this entire situation in the first place. While we are committed to an unschooling lifestyle we have been contemplating having our son attend Play Mountain ( which is basically an unschooling school if that makes any sense www.playmountain.org) two days a week for a preschool program. We thought it would be a great way for him to have the opportunity to be around other children especially since there will be a new baby and I may be a bit limited in what I can do with him for a bit while still in line with our education philosophy. Obviously nothing is set in stone but we figured we'd utilize the school during his "preschool years" and then once the baby is a bit older and we have more flexibility move to a more to a traditional ... LOL... unschooling lifestyle.
So here is my issue... we were at our admission interview and the conversation came up about how in the older nursery program (4-6 yr olds) and the older yard (6-12 yr olds) there is often the issue of the usual childhood cliquish behavior and how that can play out with kids not standing up for themselves whether that is about what they want to do, how they want to be or not be touched, etc. in order to be friends with someone. I think the teachers seem to be pretty on top of it and are really there to help both children work through what is going on for them but it happens. I am very clear that due to my own personal history the idea of my son being overpowered, especially physically, sends me to a place words can't begin to describe. So I feel like I am having a hard time separating what is just the normal stuff I need to learn to deal with as a parent and what is unnecessary exposure to him possibly being emotionally hurt. He is so sweet and sensitive with other kids that the idea of exposing him to that hurtful child behavior makes me so sad. I guess what I am trying to figure out is, is that just a natural, unavoidable part of childhood that I need to accept and just be here to help him through? A part of life he needs to learn to negotiate and will be a part of his life whether we unschool or send him to Play Mountain for a few years. Or is that behavior really related to the kids he is exposed to and how they are together and therefore possible and reasonable to avoid through unschooling just as we are avoiding him being exposed to the other undesirable elements of others exercising their control over him.
I have no idea if I am explaining that well but hopefully well enough for you to be able to understand what I am talking about. Your thoughts and perspectives on this would be greatly appreciated.
TIA,
Aimee
So here is my issue... we were at our admission interview and the conversation came up about how in the older nursery program (4-6 yr olds) and the older yard (6-12 yr olds) there is often the issue of the usual childhood cliquish behavior and how that can play out with kids not standing up for themselves whether that is about what they want to do, how they want to be or not be touched, etc. in order to be friends with someone. I think the teachers seem to be pretty on top of it and are really there to help both children work through what is going on for them but it happens. I am very clear that due to my own personal history the idea of my son being overpowered, especially physically, sends me to a place words can't begin to describe. So I feel like I am having a hard time separating what is just the normal stuff I need to learn to deal with as a parent and what is unnecessary exposure to him possibly being emotionally hurt. He is so sweet and sensitive with other kids that the idea of exposing him to that hurtful child behavior makes me so sad. I guess what I am trying to figure out is, is that just a natural, unavoidable part of childhood that I need to accept and just be here to help him through? A part of life he needs to learn to negotiate and will be a part of his life whether we unschool or send him to Play Mountain for a few years. Or is that behavior really related to the kids he is exposed to and how they are together and therefore possible and reasonable to avoid through unschooling just as we are avoiding him being exposed to the other undesirable elements of others exercising their control over him.
I have no idea if I am explaining that well but hopefully well enough for you to be able to understand what I am talking about. Your thoughts and perspectives on this would be greatly appreciated.
TIA,
Aimee
riverkatie
In my opinion all institutional settings have bullying going on. Even Summerhill, the original free school had this problem. If you send your child to an institutional setting he will be bullied and may actually bully others. This is taking bullying in its widest term and includes coercion to be part of the group.
The reason I think this happens, even in 'free' schools is because not all kids bring the same free home experiences to the school. One cannot dictate what a family does at home. Surprisingly coercive families do send their kids to free schools, don't ask me why.
Also logically a school has to have some rules and is rarely truly 'free'. For example my eldest once set off on a walk, aged 2 and a half. Obviously I followed (baby in a sling, where she normally resided). My child never once looked back, we were in a huge country park, so roads were not an issue, nor were wild animals (we don't live in the US, I know your parks may have bears etc) She just kept going. Baby and I just kept following. Eventually she sat down, looked around, saw me and smiled. We rested a while and then slowly made our way back.
Just a normal little incident in a day, yet how can this happen in an institutional setting?
Obviously what to do when baby arrives is your choice, but do not delude yourself that any school, not matter how 'free' can be free of bullying and coercion.
katie.
The reason I think this happens, even in 'free' schools is because not all kids bring the same free home experiences to the school. One cannot dictate what a family does at home. Surprisingly coercive families do send their kids to free schools, don't ask me why.
Also logically a school has to have some rules and is rarely truly 'free'. For example my eldest once set off on a walk, aged 2 and a half. Obviously I followed (baby in a sling, where she normally resided). My child never once looked back, we were in a huge country park, so roads were not an issue, nor were wild animals (we don't live in the US, I know your parks may have bears etc) She just kept going. Baby and I just kept following. Eventually she sat down, looked around, saw me and smiled. We rested a while and then slowly made our way back.
Just a normal little incident in a day, yet how can this happen in an institutional setting?
Obviously what to do when baby arrives is your choice, but do not delude yourself that any school, not matter how 'free' can be free of bullying and coercion.
katie.
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
So let me get this straight. You son will be staying with the Nanny 2 times a week plus two days at the school?
That is when baby is born right?
So you get a new baby to take his place and he is sent away so you have time with the newborn?
I don't think it is a good idea. I think when a new sibling comes into the picture the older one needs MORE of you and not less and to be sent away.
Maybe you can get a mother's helper to come for a couple of hours a day to play with your son so you can rest with your newborn.
THat would be a better idea then sending your son away.
You can even take the baby and your son to the local park so your oldest has other children around. No need to go to school
for that.
There are many other options for playing with other children that does not involve sending him to school.
There are other options to get some help and time for a nap then sending your child away to school in a time that will
be hard for him.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
________________________________
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
That is when baby is born right?
So you get a new baby to take his place and he is sent away so you have time with the newborn?
I don't think it is a good idea. I think when a new sibling comes into the picture the older one needs MORE of you and not less and to be sent away.
Maybe you can get a mother's helper to come for a couple of hours a day to play with your son so you can rest with your newborn.
THat would be a better idea then sending your son away.
You can even take the baby and your son to the local park so your oldest has other children around. No need to go to school
for that.
There are many other options for playing with other children that does not involve sending him to school.
There are other options to get some help and time for a nap then sending your child away to school in a time that will
be hard for him.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
________________________________
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sacha Davis
I don't post often, but here goes...
Hmmmm...what you're saying sounds a lot like the Kids Need Socialization
argument against unschooling - that somehow playground politics and
learning that people are mean are just a normal part of growing up, and if
you actually don't want to expose your child to all that, you're somehow
stunting their growth. Yes, your son will learn now to play well with
others, to negotiate, to be as social as he wants to be - especially if he
has a sibling. I don't think mean preschoolers on the playground is a
natural part of growing up that we as parents just have to accept while we
provide salve for our childrens' wounded souls. I think it's a perfectly
okay approach to avoid the injury in the first place and to work with our
kids on their interpersonal and problem solving skills as they get older
and more capable of managing relationships. My son is 3 right now and if
some kid was mean to him it would be hurtful, not a learning experience
and not growth producing.
If you haven't had your son in school then send him when the baby arrives,
it could send him a very wrong message. I do agree with that. Kids don't
understand all the nuances of human emotion and are very black and white.
New baby and him going to school will be connected in his mind - maybe
consider finding other ways to get the support you need, or be very
careful with transitioning your son into a school environment.
Best of luck.
S.
Hmmmm...what you're saying sounds a lot like the Kids Need Socialization
argument against unschooling - that somehow playground politics and
learning that people are mean are just a normal part of growing up, and if
you actually don't want to expose your child to all that, you're somehow
stunting their growth. Yes, your son will learn now to play well with
others, to negotiate, to be as social as he wants to be - especially if he
has a sibling. I don't think mean preschoolers on the playground is a
natural part of growing up that we as parents just have to accept while we
provide salve for our childrens' wounded souls. I think it's a perfectly
okay approach to avoid the injury in the first place and to work with our
kids on their interpersonal and problem solving skills as they get older
and more capable of managing relationships. My son is 3 right now and if
some kid was mean to him it would be hurtful, not a learning experience
and not growth producing.
If you haven't had your son in school then send him when the baby arrives,
it could send him a very wrong message. I do agree with that. Kids don't
understand all the nuances of human emotion and are very black and white.
New baby and him going to school will be connected in his mind - maybe
consider finding other ways to get the support you need, or be very
careful with transitioning your son into a school environment.
Best of luck.
S.
> Hi all. I would greatly appreciate some insight and perspective from some
> experienced unschoolers on a question that has come up for us. Sorry for
> the cross post if you see this on other groups. A bit of background that
> may be helpful... I work 2 days a week, when I am not home our son is with
> his nanny who is like his best playmate, we are either very early in a
> pregnancy or will be getting pregnant soon which is why I am contemplating
> this entire situation in the first place. While we are committed to an
> unschooling lifestyle we have been contemplating having our son attend
> Play Mountain ( which is basically an unschooling school if that makes any
> sense www.playmountain.org) two days a week for a preschool program. We
> thought it would be a great way for him to have the opportunity to be
> around other children especially since there will be a new baby and I may
> be a bit limited in what I can do with him for a bit while still in line
> with our education philosophy. Obviously nothing is set in stone but we
> figured we'd utilize the school during his "preschool years" and then once
> the baby is a bit older and we have more flexibility move to a more to a
> traditional ... LOL... unschooling lifestyle.
>
> So here is my issue... we were at our admission interview and the
> conversation came up about how in the older nursery program (4-6 yr olds)
> and the older yard (6-12 yr olds) there is often the issue of the usual
> childhood cliquish behavior and how that can play out with kids not
> standing up for themselves whether that is about what they want to do, how
> they want to be or not be touched, etc. in order to be friends with
> someone. I think the teachers seem to be pretty on top of it and are
> really there to help both children work through what is going on for them
> but it happens. I am very clear that due to my own personal history the
> idea of my son being overpowered, especially physically, sends me to a
> place words can't begin to describe. So I feel like I am having a hard
> time separating what is just the normal stuff I need to learn to deal with
> as a parent and what is unnecessary exposure to him possibly being
> emotionally hurt. He is so sweet and sensitive with other kids that the
> idea of exposing him to that hurtful child behavior makes me so sad. I
> guess what I am trying to figure out is, is that just a natural,
> unavoidable part of childhood that I need to accept and just be here to
> help him through? A part of life he needs to learn to negotiate and will
> be a part of his life whether we unschool or send him to Play Mountain for
> a few years. Or is that behavior really related to the kids he is
> exposed to and how they are together and therefore possible and reasonable
> to avoid through unschooling just as we are avoiding him being exposed to
> the other undesirable elements of others exercising their control over
> him.
>
> I have no idea if I am explaining that well but hopefully well enough for
> you to be able to understand what I am talking about. Your thoughts and
> perspectives on this would be greatly appreciated.
>
> TIA,
> Aimee
>
>
Vickie
>> thought it would be a great way for him to have the opportunity to be around other children especially since there will be a new baby and I may be a bit limited in what I can do with him<<
I felt a lot of pressure to send my daughter away after my son was born (she was 2 at the time), because a lot of people said it would be something she "needed', so she wouldn't get jealous of the baby. However, I am really glad that I didn't send her anywhere, because I thought it was wonderful for her to see how I took care of the baby and still had time for her. Especially when the baby is brand-new, there will be a lot of time when the baby is sleeping and you can really focus on the older child. Also, my daughter really wanted to be with me and the baby, and I don't feel like she missed out on anything by being "stuck" with us for a little while.
Vickie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Mar 13, 2010, at 10:52 AM, aimeemwheeler wrote:
don't see it as natural though. There isn't a biologically sound
reason kids that young should be navigating the world on their own.
Humans did not evolve to be independent of their families that young.
They learn to cope because humans are adaptable, but there's a great
deal of trust and bonding that's lost in the process. I think it's
far more damaging than anyone realizes because nearly every kid is
being damaged.
rather be with the new baby. I've heard lots of adults clearly
remember the arrival of a new born with resentment.
If your husband brought home a new wife and sent you away 4 days a
week, would you see it as a wonderful opportunity he's providing for
you?
Joyce
> I guess what I am trying to figure out is, is that just a natural,It's a usual part of most kids' lives because they go to school. I
> unavoidable part of childhood that I need to accept and just be
> here to help him through?
don't see it as natural though. There isn't a biologically sound
reason kids that young should be navigating the world on their own.
Humans did not evolve to be independent of their families that young.
They learn to cope because humans are adaptable, but there's a great
deal of trust and bonding that's lost in the process. I think it's
far more damaging than anyone realizes because nearly every kid is
being damaged.
> We thought it would be a great way for him to have the opportunityIt's not a guess that he'll think he's being sent away because you'd
> to be around other children especially since there will be a new
> baby and I may be a bit limited in what I can do with him for a bit
> while still in line with our education philosophy.
>
rather be with the new baby. I've heard lots of adults clearly
remember the arrival of a new born with resentment.
If your husband brought home a new wife and sent you away 4 days a
week, would you see it as a wonderful opportunity he's providing for
you?
Joyce
aimeemwheeler
Thanks everyone! I guess I should have been more clear...if he goes he would start in fall and the earliest the baby would be here is late Nov. assuming I am actually pregnant now. I am tremendously sensitive to just having that many changes in his life never mind the connections that would be made between being away from me and the new baby. He would actually be at school on one of my work days and then the nanny would be more of a mother's helper to me when she is around so I can be with the children. We had originally come up with a possible schedule though before we thought I could be pregnant so that is definitely something to give more thought to. My initial instinct is to not send him but I guess I just wanted confirmation from others who have been there that this isn't a "natural" part of childhood that I need to accept as I am certain I will get that from at least a handful of people we know. Wanted to be armed w/ others' experiences and not just my intuition.
Thanks again!
Thanks again!
Schuyler
The answers you'll get on an unschooling list are not going to be about putting your child in school. You are asking for an "unbiased" answer from a biased population. Early school and daycare has been argued to lead to more precocious children. If a more precocial child is among your parenting goals than school may be among the tools that you use to achieve that. Early school and daycare have been argued to lead to more aggressive children. Given the concerns of your earlier post, a more aggressive child amongst more aggressive children is probably not among your goals. That's from an NICHD study of early childcare based on rating by their caregivers. Oh, David's reading from the study: "When children are in daycare for more hours mothers were less sensitive in their interactions with their children at 6, 15, 24, and 36 months. Children were less positively engaged with their mothers; were at heightened risk of insecure infant-mother attachment; showed
more problem behaviors; and lower social competence." Longitudinally, at 54 months of age, the children were found to be much the same. David wants me to add "If the infant and mother are separated the maternal hormonal profile will be totally different than if they are together.
Children are naturally given to others to tend to them. It is natural. It has been going on for a long, long time. Wet-nursing is a common event, killed off lots of French children in the 1700's as their mothers chose to send them off so that they could continue to work in their home. Sarah Hrdy has a fantastically interesting book that touches on that. Apparently there were public service posters pushing for mothers to breastfeed their own children the child mortality risk was so high. In 1800 BC Hammurabi's code made reference to wet-nurses. Long time, long history, very natural to look to others for caring for a child. Particularly if you have the money or goods to support someone else coming into your family, your home to do so. Oh, oh, the Tuareg are a nomadic group of people who captured people from other groups and enslaved them. Among the slave responsibilities was childcare. Fascinatingly enough the slaves children thrived while the Tuareg
children didn't do so well. Care by a non-related individual wasn't as good as care by your parent. But it wasn't unnatural, just less caring. And, for some reason, it reminds me of the television show I'll Fly Away with the housekeeper who also provides some childcare being torn between her own family and her employer's family.
What you do, whichever "natural" route you follow, preschool or keeping your child with you, will be about your priorities and the outcomes you are looking for. It will be about you balancing your work with your children's care. The stuff people have been doing since long before they were people. An unschooling list isn't going to help you to figure out how to fit school into the mix. But it will help you to fit unschooling in with the work or how to care for two children while unschooling or a lot of other ideas.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: aimeemwheeler <apmama@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, 13 March, 2010 23:25:35
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: what can I healthily protect my child from?
Thanks everyone! I guess I should have been more clear...if he goes he would start in fall and the earliest the baby would be here is late Nov. assuming I am actually pregnant now. I am tremendously sensitive to just having that many changes in his life never mind the connections that would be made between being away from me and the new baby. He would actually be at school on one of my work days and then the nanny would be more of a mother's helper to me when she is around so I can be with the children. We had originally come up with a possible schedule though before we thought I could be pregnant so that is definitely something to give more thought to. My initial instinct is to not send him but I guess I just wanted confirmation from others who have been there that this isn't a "natural" part of childhood that I need to accept as I am certain I will get that from at least a handful of people we know. Wanted to be armed w/ others' experiences and
not just my intuition.
Thanks again!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
more problem behaviors; and lower social competence." Longitudinally, at 54 months of age, the children were found to be much the same. David wants me to add "If the infant and mother are separated the maternal hormonal profile will be totally different than if they are together.
Children are naturally given to others to tend to them. It is natural. It has been going on for a long, long time. Wet-nursing is a common event, killed off lots of French children in the 1700's as their mothers chose to send them off so that they could continue to work in their home. Sarah Hrdy has a fantastically interesting book that touches on that. Apparently there were public service posters pushing for mothers to breastfeed their own children the child mortality risk was so high. In 1800 BC Hammurabi's code made reference to wet-nurses. Long time, long history, very natural to look to others for caring for a child. Particularly if you have the money or goods to support someone else coming into your family, your home to do so. Oh, oh, the Tuareg are a nomadic group of people who captured people from other groups and enslaved them. Among the slave responsibilities was childcare. Fascinatingly enough the slaves children thrived while the Tuareg
children didn't do so well. Care by a non-related individual wasn't as good as care by your parent. But it wasn't unnatural, just less caring. And, for some reason, it reminds me of the television show I'll Fly Away with the housekeeper who also provides some childcare being torn between her own family and her employer's family.
What you do, whichever "natural" route you follow, preschool or keeping your child with you, will be about your priorities and the outcomes you are looking for. It will be about you balancing your work with your children's care. The stuff people have been doing since long before they were people. An unschooling list isn't going to help you to figure out how to fit school into the mix. But it will help you to fit unschooling in with the work or how to care for two children while unschooling or a lot of other ideas.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: aimeemwheeler <apmama@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, 13 March, 2010 23:25:35
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: what can I healthily protect my child from?
Thanks everyone! I guess I should have been more clear...if he goes he would start in fall and the earliest the baby would be here is late Nov. assuming I am actually pregnant now. I am tremendously sensitive to just having that many changes in his life never mind the connections that would be made between being away from me and the new baby. He would actually be at school on one of my work days and then the nanny would be more of a mother's helper to me when she is around so I can be with the children. We had originally come up with a possible schedule though before we thought I could be pregnant so that is definitely something to give more thought to. My initial instinct is to not send him but I guess I just wanted confirmation from others who have been there that this isn't a "natural" part of childhood that I need to accept as I am certain I will get that from at least a handful of people we know. Wanted to be armed w/ others' experiences and
not just my intuition.
Thanks again!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
aimeemwheeler
Thanks everyone! I guess I should have been more clear...if he goes he would start in fall and the earliest the baby would be here is late Nov. assuming I am actually pregnant now. I am tremendously sensitive to just having that many changes in his life never mind the connections that would be made between being away from me and the new baby. He would actually be at school on one of my work days and then the nanny would be more of a mother's helper to me when she is around so I can be with the children. We had originally come up with a possible schedule though before we thought I could be pregnant so that is definitely something to give more thought to. My initial instinct is to not send him but I guess I just wanted confirmation from others who have been there that this isn't a "natural" part of childhood that I need to accept as I am certain I will get that from at least a handful of people we know. Wanted to be armed w/ others' experiences and not just my intuition.
Thanks again!
Thanks again!
aimeemwheeler
Ooops! Sorry about that... don't know why it posted twice.
Thank you everyone! Reading through everyone's responses here and on a few other boards has really helped us to truly process this whole thing and even to think about it in new ways which was exactly what I was hoping for. It is so helpful to have a sounding board to bounce things off of as we learn to navigate this journey. It helps us to determine what part of our reactions are present and which part are from the past.
We had a long talk last night and have decided to withdraw our application to the school so we are officially joining the ranks of unschoolers and trusting that with commitment to a true vision of the life we want for our family it will come to be.
Thanks again!
Aimee
Thank you everyone! Reading through everyone's responses here and on a few other boards has really helped us to truly process this whole thing and even to think about it in new ways which was exactly what I was hoping for. It is so helpful to have a sounding board to bounce things off of as we learn to navigate this journey. It helps us to determine what part of our reactions are present and which part are from the past.
We had a long talk last night and have decided to withdraw our application to the school so we are officially joining the ranks of unschoolers and trusting that with commitment to a true vision of the life we want for our family it will come to be.
> An unschooling list isn't going to help you to figure out how to fit school into the mix. But it will help you to fit unschooling in with the work or how to care for two children while unschooling or a lot of other ideas.So it looks like this is an invitation we will certainly take you up on as all of this begins to unfold!
Thanks again!
Aimee
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], "aimeemwheeler" <apmama@...> wrote:
Its the usual *school yard* dynamic where kids don't have the option of leaving. Its not a "real life" scenario in the sense that adults have the option of walking away from conflict. Families have the option of leaving if a play-date goes sour or one child is having a rough day. In a school situation, kids are stuck. If you want to protect your child from being stuck, don't stick him in that situation!
Other people who have chosen those sorts of environments for their kids will tell you that kind of trouble is "normal" - and it is in a sense, its the norm in schools, even "better" schools. An adult-to student ratio that's closer to a home environment helps, but it doesn't address the biggest problem, which is that the kids can't choose, five minutes into the day or five minutes from the end of the day, to leave.
You can do that, of course - I have a kid who left school at 13 so I know kids heal from a great many schoolish hurts - but if you're seriously considering unschooling its a good idea to ask yourself why that's your first pick? One of the challenges of unschooling is figuring out how to think out of the box - its something that takes a bit of practice! And one way to learn to think out of the box is to take the "box" answer - school - and decide its not an option. So if school's not an option, how do you get your needs met? One of the marvelous gifts of Ray coming to live with us at 13 was that him going back to school wasn't a good option. Before then, I'd had school in the back of my mind as an option for my dd and I didn't realize that it was a wall around my thinking. It didn't seem like a wall, it seemed like a safety net! But the moment I realized/decided school Was Not an option for Ray, I found I had more ideas, my thinking opened up.
You said you aren't pregnant (or barely) yet, so there's time for you to come up with some ideas and options.
---Meredith (Ray 16, Mo 8)
>>there is often the issue of the usual childhood cliquish behavior and how that can play out with kids not standing up for themselves whether that is about what they want to do, how they want to be or not be touched, etc.***********
Its the usual *school yard* dynamic where kids don't have the option of leaving. Its not a "real life" scenario in the sense that adults have the option of walking away from conflict. Families have the option of leaving if a play-date goes sour or one child is having a rough day. In a school situation, kids are stuck. If you want to protect your child from being stuck, don't stick him in that situation!
Other people who have chosen those sorts of environments for their kids will tell you that kind of trouble is "normal" - and it is in a sense, its the norm in schools, even "better" schools. An adult-to student ratio that's closer to a home environment helps, but it doesn't address the biggest problem, which is that the kids can't choose, five minutes into the day or five minutes from the end of the day, to leave.
>we figured we'd utilize the school during his "preschool years" and then once the baby is a bit older and we have more flexibility move to a more to a traditional ... LOL... unschooling lifestyle.***********
You can do that, of course - I have a kid who left school at 13 so I know kids heal from a great many schoolish hurts - but if you're seriously considering unschooling its a good idea to ask yourself why that's your first pick? One of the challenges of unschooling is figuring out how to think out of the box - its something that takes a bit of practice! And one way to learn to think out of the box is to take the "box" answer - school - and decide its not an option. So if school's not an option, how do you get your needs met? One of the marvelous gifts of Ray coming to live with us at 13 was that him going back to school wasn't a good option. Before then, I'd had school in the back of my mind as an option for my dd and I didn't realize that it was a wall around my thinking. It didn't seem like a wall, it seemed like a safety net! But the moment I realized/decided school Was Not an option for Ray, I found I had more ideas, my thinking opened up.
You said you aren't pregnant (or barely) yet, so there's time for you to come up with some ideas and options.
---Meredith (Ray 16, Mo 8)
mrsvisionary
--- In [email protected], "riverkatie" <riverkatie@...> wrote:
Heidi
>I can validate the above statement as I attended an alternative free school (which was based on the Summerhill model. K-6th from 1964-1971. Bullying and cliques definitely went on despite the small enrollment of 30 students. I don't have a strong opinion as to how the home lifestyles of the children contributed to the bullying. Just conjecture on my part but I think the degree to which children are vulnerable to participating in or being victimized by bullying is variable. It can only be modulated by close parental involvement both in the "school" and home environments.
>
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> In my opinion all institutional settings have bullying going on. Even Summerhill, the original free school had this problem. If you send your child to an institutional setting he will be bullied and may actually bully others.
Heidi
Schuyler
If you've ever read the books of Narnia, the Voyage of the Dawn Treader starts with a huge bullying scene at a school alaSummerhill. Of course C.S. Lewis was very anti-Summerhillesque schools, so that can be taken into account. But it looks as though those sorts of schools can be harsh as well.
Actually, I went to an alternative school and loved it, but there was bullying that went on. I was called Skuzzler and had the truth of Santa Claus forced on me. I remember the response by other boys against the bullying boy was quite intense. A reverse bullying bullying, if you will. I don't recall any parents or teachers being involved. It was a quiet thing, among peers.
Schuyler
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From: mrsvisionary <heidi@...>
Actually, I went to an alternative school and loved it, but there was bullying that went on. I was called Skuzzler and had the truth of Santa Claus forced on me. I remember the response by other boys against the bullying boy was quite intense. A reverse bullying bullying, if you will. I don't recall any parents or teachers being involved. It was a quiet thing, among peers.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: mrsvisionary <heidi@...>
--- In [email protected], "riverkatie" <riverkatie@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> In my opinion all institutional settings have bullying going on. Even Summerhill, the original free school had this problem. If you send your child to an institutional setting he will be bullied and may actually bully others.
I can validate the above statement as I attended an alternative free school (which was based on the Summerhill model. K-6th from 1964-1971. Bullying and cliques definitely went on despite the small enrollment of 30 students. I don't have a strong opinion as to how the home lifestyles of the children contributed to the bullying. Just conjecture on my part but I think the degree to which children are vulnerable to participating in or being victimized by bullying is variable. It can only be modulated by close parental involvement both in the "school" and home environments.
Heidi
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Maya
Here is insight from a recent new mother of a 7 yo from India and a son of 8.5. We have only been back a week from picking up our daughter in India. Although our travel was challenging at times, we stuck together as a family unit and learned how to navigate life in another country.
Everything was going well until we got home. Our son of 8 yrs, started getting very upset and jealous of the new sister he always wanted. He is challenging us in every way, but is coming around quickly. She is very sensitive to his needs, which makes their relationship grow closer. With each new family member, there is are new relationships to be defined!
I guess what I am trying to say is that I am glad our son is part of this new journey of building family relationships and dynamics. If he can start to feel good about our time together and individually apart, he doesn't feel out of the loop. Instead, he feels the positive aspects of being a big brother and learning to work through challenges.
What has helped is his space (or running away to grandma's house next door) to process the new changes. Also, individual time with each parent, as well as together as a family has really helped. We are all learning about each other and redefining our roles in the family. This cannot be done if either one is in an institutional setting.
No matter the school, kids are bullied. How young do you want your son to learn this? Your sensitivity will guide you. If you need the space to rest before birth and after, by all means take it. Just be mindful that your child always knows your love and guidance will never pass, despite the testing they will exhibit with the changes.
We are learning to Just work through our new family by living in the moment!
Good luck! Trust your judgement. But the quicker you adjust as a family unit, the quicker bonding and free learning can happen naturally!
Maya
Everything was going well until we got home. Our son of 8 yrs, started getting very upset and jealous of the new sister he always wanted. He is challenging us in every way, but is coming around quickly. She is very sensitive to his needs, which makes their relationship grow closer. With each new family member, there is are new relationships to be defined!
I guess what I am trying to say is that I am glad our son is part of this new journey of building family relationships and dynamics. If he can start to feel good about our time together and individually apart, he doesn't feel out of the loop. Instead, he feels the positive aspects of being a big brother and learning to work through challenges.
What has helped is his space (or running away to grandma's house next door) to process the new changes. Also, individual time with each parent, as well as together as a family has really helped. We are all learning about each other and redefining our roles in the family. This cannot be done if either one is in an institutional setting.
No matter the school, kids are bullied. How young do you want your son to learn this? Your sensitivity will guide you. If you need the space to rest before birth and after, by all means take it. Just be mindful that your child always knows your love and guidance will never pass, despite the testing they will exhibit with the changes.
We are learning to Just work through our new family by living in the moment!
Good luck! Trust your judgement. But the quicker you adjust as a family unit, the quicker bonding and free learning can happen naturally!
Maya
mrsvisionary
I want to clarify that while I am a proponent of home education and especially "unschooling", I am not opposed to children attending "free" or any other type of school. I do believe, however, that it essential for the parents to be intimately involved in their children's education wherever it takes place.
Also, negative interactions and cliques between siblings in large families can be just as challenging as what happens at school. I state this not to be negative but to be objective in presentation of the facts.
Heidi
Also, negative interactions and cliques between siblings in large families can be just as challenging as what happens at school. I state this not to be negative but to be objective in presentation of the facts.
Heidi
--- In [email protected], "mrsvisionary" <heidi@...> wrote:
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>
>
> --- In [email protected], "riverkatie" <riverkatie@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > In my opinion all institutional settings have bullying going on. Even Summerhill, the original free school had this problem. If you send your child to an institutional setting he will be bullied and may actually bully others.
>
>
> I can validate the above statement as I attended an alternative free school (which was based on the Summerhill model) K-6th from 1964-1971. Bullying and cliques definitely went on despite the small enrollment of 30 students. I don't have a strong opinion as to how the home lifestyles of the children contributed to the bullying. Just conjecture on my part but I think the degree to which children are vulnerable to participating in or being victimized by bullying is variable. It can only be modulated by close parental involvement both in the "school" and home environments.
> Heidi
>