New to unschooling and this group, seeking advice
dphock
Hi --
I'm new to the group and new to unschooling. We are on the verge of introducing this concept with our 14 year old daughter.
Our situation (and our path to unschooling) is this: C went to a traditional large elementary school from grades K thru 4. She liked school and always excelled academically, but had some social stresses -- she's pretty introverted, and it seemed that just being in a classroom with 20 other kids was pretty stressful for her. We moved her to a much smaller elementary school for 5th and 6th grades. During that time, C was diagnosed with Asperger's. She had a rough
time socially and began to have a lot of stomach aches and was miserable about going to school. She continued to get excellent grades, but hated school.
For 7th grade, we tried a tiny, new private school -- supposedly individualized instruction, etc. Well, that was not a good fit-- even tho the class had 12 kids in it, we saw that the teachers didn't discipline the kids and the classes were pretty chaotic. We were not impressed. Then C started having frequent, intense migraine headaches, frequently needing to miss school because her
headaches were so severe.
We pulled her out of school by Easter last year, and started home schooling. C was so pleased to be home and away from the school environment. Her migraines lessened. Our whole focus was making learning fun and trying to let her be the happy kid we'd not seen for a while. The spring and the summer went well, and she had a grand time exploring some camps and week-long summer activies.
One of those activities (a computer game design camp) was at STanford
University, where we learned of Stanford's online high school program. It's distance ed, with "virtual" live classes with interaction with other kids and the teacher. We thought that might be ideal, giving C a connection with peers but from a "save" distance, not isolating her too much, and with academics that
would challenge her. C was excited about giving it a try.
I must confess that we have been apprehensive about home-schooling because of our uncertainty about how WE can decide on and provide the curriculum. My husband is a college professor, I'm an attorney -- the "traditional" educational path has worked well for us, and we know that C is capable of doing pretty high level work. We didn't want to short-change her academic ability, and were just
uncertain about how we could manage home-schooling.
In any event, we got started in the Stanford program (EPGY " Educational Program for Gifted Youth") -- and while we are quite impressed with the humanities side of the program, we are seriously underwhelmed by the math and science side. We thought the teaching was minimal or geared to college kids -- although their admissions team denied it, we got the impression that the program is geared for
"type A", high-achiever kids who are doing work far above their age/grade level. And C's stress level went through the roof, with resulting depression and more migraines and stomach aches.
We have struggled along, but we are seeing her sink further into depression and anxiety and it is all focused on school. We have a "team" of a mental health counselor, a pediatric neurologist (for the migraines), a pediatric psychiatrist (for working with antidepressant medication) -- and they have been helpful and supportive. But still, C is sinking further and says she hates feeling the way
she feels, she wants to die, and wishes she could just go to sleep and never wake up. We see that most of the anxiety comes from having to do school. Any school. Despite working with stress management stuff, we're seeing the situation get worse, not better.
So, we have concluded that this child needs a different path. We saw her happiest and healthiest when we took the emphasis off of "school" and just played with exploring new subjects, reading, etc. We've decided that we would rather have a child who is emotionally stable and happy and interested in learning (which, generally, she is), than a depressed, anxious kid who has a piece of paper that says she did 8th grade thru STanford.
It's clear that the school path she has experienced has caused C to hate school and anything associated with school. The more we read, the more we think that allowing C to follow her interests is the way to go, at least for a while. But we are nervous and don't know how this will work, and we are concerned about doing this for the first time during 8th grade and high school.
Are there people here doing this for kids in the 14-18 yr age range? How does it work for your child? What is your child doing? Are you concerned about whether your child will learn what he/she needs to learn to get to college?
Of course, we've realized that it's stupid of us to worry about college when what confronts us today is a kid who is so miserable that she just wants to die. So we really have reached the decision that her emotional well being and good physical health are most important, and that if we just let her explore learning on her own for a bit,she might discover she likes learning instead of associating "learning" with "school" and hating it all on principle.
We are in a scary place, but we have concluded that unschooling feels like the way to go. But I sure could use some reassurance about how this will work with a 14 year old!
Thanks---
Diane
I'm new to the group and new to unschooling. We are on the verge of introducing this concept with our 14 year old daughter.
Our situation (and our path to unschooling) is this: C went to a traditional large elementary school from grades K thru 4. She liked school and always excelled academically, but had some social stresses -- she's pretty introverted, and it seemed that just being in a classroom with 20 other kids was pretty stressful for her. We moved her to a much smaller elementary school for 5th and 6th grades. During that time, C was diagnosed with Asperger's. She had a rough
time socially and began to have a lot of stomach aches and was miserable about going to school. She continued to get excellent grades, but hated school.
For 7th grade, we tried a tiny, new private school -- supposedly individualized instruction, etc. Well, that was not a good fit-- even tho the class had 12 kids in it, we saw that the teachers didn't discipline the kids and the classes were pretty chaotic. We were not impressed. Then C started having frequent, intense migraine headaches, frequently needing to miss school because her
headaches were so severe.
We pulled her out of school by Easter last year, and started home schooling. C was so pleased to be home and away from the school environment. Her migraines lessened. Our whole focus was making learning fun and trying to let her be the happy kid we'd not seen for a while. The spring and the summer went well, and she had a grand time exploring some camps and week-long summer activies.
One of those activities (a computer game design camp) was at STanford
University, where we learned of Stanford's online high school program. It's distance ed, with "virtual" live classes with interaction with other kids and the teacher. We thought that might be ideal, giving C a connection with peers but from a "save" distance, not isolating her too much, and with academics that
would challenge her. C was excited about giving it a try.
I must confess that we have been apprehensive about home-schooling because of our uncertainty about how WE can decide on and provide the curriculum. My husband is a college professor, I'm an attorney -- the "traditional" educational path has worked well for us, and we know that C is capable of doing pretty high level work. We didn't want to short-change her academic ability, and were just
uncertain about how we could manage home-schooling.
In any event, we got started in the Stanford program (EPGY " Educational Program for Gifted Youth") -- and while we are quite impressed with the humanities side of the program, we are seriously underwhelmed by the math and science side. We thought the teaching was minimal or geared to college kids -- although their admissions team denied it, we got the impression that the program is geared for
"type A", high-achiever kids who are doing work far above their age/grade level. And C's stress level went through the roof, with resulting depression and more migraines and stomach aches.
We have struggled along, but we are seeing her sink further into depression and anxiety and it is all focused on school. We have a "team" of a mental health counselor, a pediatric neurologist (for the migraines), a pediatric psychiatrist (for working with antidepressant medication) -- and they have been helpful and supportive. But still, C is sinking further and says she hates feeling the way
she feels, she wants to die, and wishes she could just go to sleep and never wake up. We see that most of the anxiety comes from having to do school. Any school. Despite working with stress management stuff, we're seeing the situation get worse, not better.
So, we have concluded that this child needs a different path. We saw her happiest and healthiest when we took the emphasis off of "school" and just played with exploring new subjects, reading, etc. We've decided that we would rather have a child who is emotionally stable and happy and interested in learning (which, generally, she is), than a depressed, anxious kid who has a piece of paper that says she did 8th grade thru STanford.
It's clear that the school path she has experienced has caused C to hate school and anything associated with school. The more we read, the more we think that allowing C to follow her interests is the way to go, at least for a while. But we are nervous and don't know how this will work, and we are concerned about doing this for the first time during 8th grade and high school.
Are there people here doing this for kids in the 14-18 yr age range? How does it work for your child? What is your child doing? Are you concerned about whether your child will learn what he/she needs to learn to get to college?
Of course, we've realized that it's stupid of us to worry about college when what confronts us today is a kid who is so miserable that she just wants to die. So we really have reached the decision that her emotional well being and good physical health are most important, and that if we just let her explore learning on her own for a bit,she might discover she likes learning instead of associating "learning" with "school" and hating it all on principle.
We are in a scary place, but we have concluded that unschooling feels like the way to go. But I sure could use some reassurance about how this will work with a 14 year old!
Thanks---
Diane
Faith Void
So, we have concluded that this child needs a different path. We saw her
happiest and healthiest when we took the emphasis off of "school" and just
played with exploring new subjects, reading, etc. We've decided that we
would rather have a child who is emotionally stable and happy and interested
in learning (which, generally, she is), than a depressed, anxious kid who
has a piece of paper that says she did 8th grade thru STanford.
It's clear that the school path she has experienced has caused C to hate
school and anything associated with school. The more we read, the more we
think that allowing C to follow her interests is the way to go, at least for
a while. But we are nervous and don't know how this will work, and we are
concerned about doing this for the first time during 8th grade and high
school.
Are there people here doing this for kids in the 14-18 yr age range? How
does it work for your child? What is your child doing? Are you concerned
about whether your child will learn what he/she needs to learn to get to
college?
*** De-schooling is the first place to start :-) For you and your child.
Here's a link to a wealth of information. http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
Find fun things for you and your child to do. Fun, not worrying about
academics, school or even learning. Play, laugh, re-discover joy. Its harder
than you think for some people. As a parent, you may want to learn as much
as possible about unschooling. There are many great resources, books, blogs,
vlogs, videos, conferences, etc al about unschooling. Sink in deep. Focus on
your own joy in learning, do you want to learn to knit? bake a cake? martial
arts? etc...what passions drive you?
"How does it work for your child?" My child has been unschooled since birth
and radically unschooled for several years, its going to look different. My
13dd spends her time, writing her novel (her passion), texting and emailing
friends, making videos, creating art, reading, going to live music events,
riding her bike. It might not sound like a lot of "learning" but its in
there :-) She just tried out school (because she wanted to) she caught up to
her age peers in a week. And was then bored by the work (easy and
uninteresting) and kids (boring and passionateness) after a month.
"Are you concerned about whether your child will learn what he/she needs to
learn to get to college?" I am not. First because college isn't necessarily
a goal. And second because I trust that she will learn what she needs to
know, when she needs to know it. She did that with school recently. She
never needed written math before but certainly learned that really fast :-)
She wanted to edit her book, she learned grammar and spelling because it
meant something to her. She now loves grammar!
College will happen if she wants it. Or it won't. She may discover a passion
that requires something other than college.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Of course, we've realized that it's stupid of us to worry about college when
what confronts us today is a kid who is so miserable that she just wants to
die. So we really have reached the decision that her emotional well being
and good physical health are most important, and that if we just let her
explore learning on her own for a bit,she might discover she likes learning
instead of associating "learning" with "school" and hating it all on
principle.
We are in a scary place, but we have concluded that unschooling feels like
the way to go. But I sure could use some reassurance about how this will
work with a 14 year old!
*** I am happy that you see that, its a huge step. If she has fears about
how she may do there are a wealth of blogs, vlogs by unschooled teens and
young adults.
I am not sure where in the country you are but conferences are all over.
There is a great one pertinent to your life coming up, The Autodidactic
Symposium, http://theautodidactsymposium.com/start.htm?keep_has_js=1 It is
in South Carolina.
Faith
--
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
happiest and healthiest when we took the emphasis off of "school" and just
played with exploring new subjects, reading, etc. We've decided that we
would rather have a child who is emotionally stable and happy and interested
in learning (which, generally, she is), than a depressed, anxious kid who
has a piece of paper that says she did 8th grade thru STanford.
It's clear that the school path she has experienced has caused C to hate
school and anything associated with school. The more we read, the more we
think that allowing C to follow her interests is the way to go, at least for
a while. But we are nervous and don't know how this will work, and we are
concerned about doing this for the first time during 8th grade and high
school.
Are there people here doing this for kids in the 14-18 yr age range? How
does it work for your child? What is your child doing? Are you concerned
about whether your child will learn what he/she needs to learn to get to
college?
*** De-schooling is the first place to start :-) For you and your child.
Here's a link to a wealth of information. http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
Find fun things for you and your child to do. Fun, not worrying about
academics, school or even learning. Play, laugh, re-discover joy. Its harder
than you think for some people. As a parent, you may want to learn as much
as possible about unschooling. There are many great resources, books, blogs,
vlogs, videos, conferences, etc al about unschooling. Sink in deep. Focus on
your own joy in learning, do you want to learn to knit? bake a cake? martial
arts? etc...what passions drive you?
"How does it work for your child?" My child has been unschooled since birth
and radically unschooled for several years, its going to look different. My
13dd spends her time, writing her novel (her passion), texting and emailing
friends, making videos, creating art, reading, going to live music events,
riding her bike. It might not sound like a lot of "learning" but its in
there :-) She just tried out school (because she wanted to) she caught up to
her age peers in a week. And was then bored by the work (easy and
uninteresting) and kids (boring and passionateness) after a month.
"Are you concerned about whether your child will learn what he/she needs to
learn to get to college?" I am not. First because college isn't necessarily
a goal. And second because I trust that she will learn what she needs to
know, when she needs to know it. She did that with school recently. She
never needed written math before but certainly learned that really fast :-)
She wanted to edit her book, she learned grammar and spelling because it
meant something to her. She now loves grammar!
College will happen if she wants it. Or it won't. She may discover a passion
that requires something other than college.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Of course, we've realized that it's stupid of us to worry about college when
what confronts us today is a kid who is so miserable that she just wants to
die. So we really have reached the decision that her emotional well being
and good physical health are most important, and that if we just let her
explore learning on her own for a bit,she might discover she likes learning
instead of associating "learning" with "school" and hating it all on
principle.
We are in a scary place, but we have concluded that unschooling feels like
the way to go. But I sure could use some reassurance about how this will
work with a 14 year old!
*** I am happy that you see that, its a huge step. If she has fears about
how she may do there are a wealth of blogs, vlogs by unschooled teens and
young adults.
I am not sure where in the country you are but conferences are all over.
There is a great one pertinent to your life coming up, The Autodidactic
Symposium, http://theautodidactsymposium.com/start.htm?keep_has_js=1 It is
in South Carolina.
Faith
--
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], "dphock" <dphock@...> wrote:
My 16yo isn't currently interested in college, but that's something that could change, for sure. Currently he's studying artisan blacksmithing (as opposed to farrier work) and apprenticing with a local wood sculptor while doing odd-jobs. Most of his friends are in their early twenties and he doesn't have much in common with high-school teens unless they're unschoolers or relaxed homeschoolers.
Something that can really help, when thinking about college, is to realize that students who wait past the usual age to start have more interest, better focus, more enthusism - and a better idea of why they're there. Your dd doesn't "have to" start college at 18 (or younger) to be successful. Some unschoolers start out in junior colleges during the high-school years, while others wait until their twenties, or find they don't need college at all.
My 8yo is the sort of kid who could very well be taking junior college classes during her late teens, and there are programs in my area that other home educators make use of. She's very interested in maths and sciences, but also in visual arts, so its hard to say which direction her passions will lead her. I don't worry about her getting "formal" education in preparation for any of that - I can see that she has a really love of exploring and discovering and is picking up even the underlying concepts of formal mathematics and even "hard" science as she explores. The concepts are the hard thing to teach! And since those are areas of interst to her we have some more formal books - tucked in with the stories and arts-n-crafts books, and no special emphasis.
This is very much how things went with Ray. He hated school and home-ed and it was stressing him out enormously. He was miserable. It took Time for him to recover from that! It might help you to read about deschooling - the process by which kids recover from school, and also about how "natural" learning looks. Here are some links to get you started:
http://sandradodd.com/beginning
http://sandradodd.com/pam/principles
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
Its valuable to know that it Is a process and can look a lot like a kid "doing nothing" for awhile. It can also help - a lot! - to do a little deschooling of your own, get some of those old school messages and assumptions out of your head. That's important because natural learning often doesn't look much like school, even for teens. It can look more like adult learning - trying new things, goofing off, making mistakes, getting all wrapped up in something... Adults don't always turn to classes to learn, although we sometimes do.
Ray was 13 when we pulled him out of school - its okay! there's still time! Give her plenty of time to recoup and decompress. Its good that you're already thinking in terms of supporting her emotionally first and foremost - that's an idea that helps unschooling "work" better, and its often one that's hard for parents to wrap their minds around. But when a person is under a lot of stress it impedes learning - you learn about stress and being stressed and not much more. When a person is relaxed and happy, learning is effortless! Even learning something challenging goes much much more easily.
Ray now works pretty dang hard pounding metal and trying to wrap his mind around the technical side of smithing, but because he's excited about it, he's happy to put himself through the challenge. This same kid was continually in trouble at school for not finishing his homework and seemed to need to be pushed to do anything.
My 8yo will also work hard to overcome challenges and learn new things - and most school parents find 8yos "need" a lot of pushing. That's not something magic or special about my dd, its an aspect of human nature. We *like* challenges, but on our own terms. Unschooling gives kids the ability to choose their own terms, to Choose to be challenged. Its exciting to see.
This next is sort of tangential to your main post, but still relates to unschooling in the whole-life sense, helping them learn to navigate their world and challenges.
My 8yo gets easily overwhelmed in crowds and very social situations - sometimes to the point of freezing up and becomming almost totally non-responsive. One of the things that helps her is having a portable game system! It lets her narrow her focus down away from People, catch her breath, and then decide when she's ready to interact. In social scenes it can look a little odd - one girl off by herself with her game, but as long as no-one tries to coax her out of her comfort zone she eventually makes the choice to interact with others.
That's really an aspect about what I said above about kids being willing to undergo challenges when they set the terms - as I said, the basic principles of how natural learning works apply to all aspects of life, not just academics. Helping your dd find her comfort zone and set the conditions by which she'll move out of it frees her up to learn more about the world, about herself, about people in general.
That's valuable stuff to learn!
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
> I'm new to the group and new to unschooling. We are on the verge of introducing this concept with our 14 year old daughter.Hi Diane! I'm Meredith, mom to "always" unschooled Morgan (8) and step mom to 16yo Ray, who's been through school at home, then public school, and now whole life unschooling (sometimes called "radical" unschooling). We love unschooling and love the fact that the same principles can be extended to all aspects of life - all life is learning!
>>>>>>>>>>
> Are there people here doing this for kids in the 14-18 yr age range? How does it work for your child? What is your child doing? Are you concerned about whether your child will learn what he/she needs to learn to get to college?****************
My 16yo isn't currently interested in college, but that's something that could change, for sure. Currently he's studying artisan blacksmithing (as opposed to farrier work) and apprenticing with a local wood sculptor while doing odd-jobs. Most of his friends are in their early twenties and he doesn't have much in common with high-school teens unless they're unschoolers or relaxed homeschoolers.
Something that can really help, when thinking about college, is to realize that students who wait past the usual age to start have more interest, better focus, more enthusism - and a better idea of why they're there. Your dd doesn't "have to" start college at 18 (or younger) to be successful. Some unschoolers start out in junior colleges during the high-school years, while others wait until their twenties, or find they don't need college at all.
My 8yo is the sort of kid who could very well be taking junior college classes during her late teens, and there are programs in my area that other home educators make use of. She's very interested in maths and sciences, but also in visual arts, so its hard to say which direction her passions will lead her. I don't worry about her getting "formal" education in preparation for any of that - I can see that she has a really love of exploring and discovering and is picking up even the underlying concepts of formal mathematics and even "hard" science as she explores. The concepts are the hard thing to teach! And since those are areas of interst to her we have some more formal books - tucked in with the stories and arts-n-crafts books, and no special emphasis.
>>So we really have reached the decision that her emotional well being and good physical health are most important, and that if we just let her explore learning on her own for a bit,she might discover she likes learning instead of associating "learning" with "school" and hating it all on principle.***************
This is very much how things went with Ray. He hated school and home-ed and it was stressing him out enormously. He was miserable. It took Time for him to recover from that! It might help you to read about deschooling - the process by which kids recover from school, and also about how "natural" learning looks. Here are some links to get you started:
http://sandradodd.com/beginning
http://sandradodd.com/pam/principles
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
Its valuable to know that it Is a process and can look a lot like a kid "doing nothing" for awhile. It can also help - a lot! - to do a little deschooling of your own, get some of those old school messages and assumptions out of your head. That's important because natural learning often doesn't look much like school, even for teens. It can look more like adult learning - trying new things, goofing off, making mistakes, getting all wrapped up in something... Adults don't always turn to classes to learn, although we sometimes do.
>>The more we read, the more we think that allowing C to follow her interests is the way to go, at least for a while. But we are nervous and don't know how this will work, and we are concerned about doing this for the first time during 8th grade and high school.*******************
Ray was 13 when we pulled him out of school - its okay! there's still time! Give her plenty of time to recoup and decompress. Its good that you're already thinking in terms of supporting her emotionally first and foremost - that's an idea that helps unschooling "work" better, and its often one that's hard for parents to wrap their minds around. But when a person is under a lot of stress it impedes learning - you learn about stress and being stressed and not much more. When a person is relaxed and happy, learning is effortless! Even learning something challenging goes much much more easily.
Ray now works pretty dang hard pounding metal and trying to wrap his mind around the technical side of smithing, but because he's excited about it, he's happy to put himself through the challenge. This same kid was continually in trouble at school for not finishing his homework and seemed to need to be pushed to do anything.
My 8yo will also work hard to overcome challenges and learn new things - and most school parents find 8yos "need" a lot of pushing. That's not something magic or special about my dd, its an aspect of human nature. We *like* challenges, but on our own terms. Unschooling gives kids the ability to choose their own terms, to Choose to be challenged. Its exciting to see.
>>she's pretty introverted, and it seemed that just being in a classroom with 20 other kids was pretty stressful for her**************
This next is sort of tangential to your main post, but still relates to unschooling in the whole-life sense, helping them learn to navigate their world and challenges.
My 8yo gets easily overwhelmed in crowds and very social situations - sometimes to the point of freezing up and becomming almost totally non-responsive. One of the things that helps her is having a portable game system! It lets her narrow her focus down away from People, catch her breath, and then decide when she's ready to interact. In social scenes it can look a little odd - one girl off by herself with her game, but as long as no-one tries to coax her out of her comfort zone she eventually makes the choice to interact with others.
That's really an aspect about what I said above about kids being willing to undergo challenges when they set the terms - as I said, the basic principles of how natural learning works apply to all aspects of life, not just academics. Helping your dd find her comfort zone and set the conditions by which she'll move out of it frees her up to learn more about the world, about herself, about people in general.
That's valuable stuff to learn!
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
Jan Smith
Hi Diane!
I am also pretty new to unschooling, and to the group.
I really wanted to wish you luck with your new journey. I started homeschooling my 14yom and 8yof this last fall. My son has not had the best experience "in school" and started struggling to produce grades because he was often very bored, therefor when unknown material was covered, the on switch didn't always come "on". However he always placed very high on the tests the schools required. He lost interest in school, learning, and began to hate reading, something he previously loved to do. While we tried at first to school at home, I quickly began to realize that he was doing more for himself and learning more when I just let him guide his own learning. I admittedly am scared that he will not learn what he is suppose to according to colleges etc. Yet in my heart I see the growth in my son in such a short time of our "the world is our classroom, even during school hours" attitude. I even see his love of reading returning more and more every day. By the
way I do refer to "our" learning, becauses this is not just my childrens journey. We as a family are all taking this journey, and my children seem to me to be understanding that learning is meant to be fun and that it is a lifelong journey.
We are all so much happier with an unschooling style of education in our lives:) !
Good luck to you and your daughter Diane. I have quickly learned that we are not alone on this journey.
Thank you to all of you out there that have helped me on my journey thus far!
I am also pretty new to unschooling, and to the group.
I really wanted to wish you luck with your new journey. I started homeschooling my 14yom and 8yof this last fall. My son has not had the best experience "in school" and started struggling to produce grades because he was often very bored, therefor when unknown material was covered, the on switch didn't always come "on". However he always placed very high on the tests the schools required. He lost interest in school, learning, and began to hate reading, something he previously loved to do. While we tried at first to school at home, I quickly began to realize that he was doing more for himself and learning more when I just let him guide his own learning. I admittedly am scared that he will not learn what he is suppose to according to colleges etc. Yet in my heart I see the growth in my son in such a short time of our "the world is our classroom, even during school hours" attitude. I even see his love of reading returning more and more every day. By the
way I do refer to "our" learning, becauses this is not just my childrens journey. We as a family are all taking this journey, and my children seem to me to be understanding that learning is meant to be fun and that it is a lifelong journey.
We are all so much happier with an unschooling style of education in our lives:) !
Good luck to you and your daughter Diane. I have quickly learned that we are not alone on this journey.
Thank you to all of you out there that have helped me on my journey thus far!
b prince
I am new to the group and to the idea of unschooling. I've loved reading all the wonderful info I can find, but time is short. I would love to find some audios on unschooling. Does anyone have any ideas where to check?
And the next question that I'm struggling with is how do you afford to unschool? I know that sounds really stupid, but I've read over and over again that if a child shows an interest you provide for it. My girls love horses and would love lessons but at $45/ hour each, I just can't do it. And that is just one example. I'd love to hear how you provide experiences/materials for your children without going broke.
Thanks
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
And the next question that I'm struggling with is how do you afford to unschool? I know that sounds really stupid, but I've read over and over again that if a child shows an interest you provide for it. My girls love horses and would love lessons but at $45/ hour each, I just can't do it. And that is just one example. I'd love to hear how you provide experiences/materials for your children without going broke.
Thanks
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], b prince <flyingtwinsmom@...> wrote:
There are real limits in life, and finances are often one of those real limits. The thing is not to think of limits as brick walls - there are almost always options! Not every option is a picture perfect ideal, but its amazing how looking for alternatives and keeping an open mind can produce opportunities you didn't even know existed.
How old are they? Do they actually want lessons, per se, or is it that they love horses and want to play horse games, get horse toys, run around and pretend to be horses, and now and then get to look at, pet and ride a horse? Lessons are a whooooooole different ball of wax than what most girls want from the "horse phase".
If they really did want lessons - how much would you pay for homeschooling curriculum? How much would you pay for materials and school clothes if they were in school? Those kinds of questions can be a good "reality check" when you're balking at spending money on something your kids desire.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
>>I would love to find some audios on unschooling.http://sandradodd.com/listen/
>> And the next question that I'm struggling with is how do you afford to unschool? I know that sounds really stupid, but I've read over and over again that if a child shows an interest you provide for it.*******************
There are real limits in life, and finances are often one of those real limits. The thing is not to think of limits as brick walls - there are almost always options! Not every option is a picture perfect ideal, but its amazing how looking for alternatives and keeping an open mind can produce opportunities you didn't even know existed.
>>My girls love horses and would love lessons but at $45/ hour each, I just can't do it.********************
How old are they? Do they actually want lessons, per se, or is it that they love horses and want to play horse games, get horse toys, run around and pretend to be horses, and now and then get to look at, pet and ride a horse? Lessons are a whooooooole different ball of wax than what most girls want from the "horse phase".
If they really did want lessons - how much would you pay for homeschooling curriculum? How much would you pay for materials and school clothes if they were in school? Those kinds of questions can be a good "reality check" when you're balking at spending money on something your kids desire.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
DJ250
Well, my dh works about 1 and a half jobsaccount manager at a medium-sized
company for his regular job and a wedding DJ for about ½ to ¾ of the year.
I watch an unschooling friends 4 boys on Fridays, which is quite helpful
for activity money for us! Weve been lucky to find a good barn that only
charges $25 an hour on purposethe owner has said for 35 years that riding
should be a sport accessible to the masses, not just the rich. I wonder if
you could begin there at the one youve found so far, with one lesson a week
and gain some experience and then volunteer at the barn. Thats allowed my
girls to be able to be at the barn for hours, grooming, mucking stalls,
letting horses out at the end of the day, and even exercising them. Look
around, you may find a cheaper barn! Ask at the local tack store. We
actually travel about 30 minutes FURTHER to go to this barn because the one
near us charges $45, like the one youve found. I asked our barn owner why
this other place can get away with charging so much and she said Because
they can! (I thought it was property values or something.) Sad!!
Im sure others can provide info on audios. There have been some wonderful
unschooling conferences (and still are upcoming!) that have recorded
speakers and such and you can purchase copies. Look on YouTube for the
momentSandra Dodd is on there, Dayna Martin, etc.
~Melissa, in MD :-)
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of b prince
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 10:22 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] New with quick question
I am new to the group and to the idea of unschooling. I've loved reading all
the wonderful info I can find, but time is short. I would love to find some
audios on unschooling. Does anyone have any ideas where to check?
And the next question that I'm struggling with is how do you afford to
unschool? I know that sounds really stupid, but I've read over and over
again that if a child shows an interest you provide for it. My girls love
horses and would love lessons but at $45/ hour each, I just can't do it. And
that is just one example. I'd love to hear how you provide
experiences/materials for your children without going broke.
Thanks
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2703 - Release Date: 02/22/10
02:34:00
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
company for his regular job and a wedding DJ for about ½ to ¾ of the year.
I watch an unschooling friends 4 boys on Fridays, which is quite helpful
for activity money for us! Weve been lucky to find a good barn that only
charges $25 an hour on purposethe owner has said for 35 years that riding
should be a sport accessible to the masses, not just the rich. I wonder if
you could begin there at the one youve found so far, with one lesson a week
and gain some experience and then volunteer at the barn. Thats allowed my
girls to be able to be at the barn for hours, grooming, mucking stalls,
letting horses out at the end of the day, and even exercising them. Look
around, you may find a cheaper barn! Ask at the local tack store. We
actually travel about 30 minutes FURTHER to go to this barn because the one
near us charges $45, like the one youve found. I asked our barn owner why
this other place can get away with charging so much and she said Because
they can! (I thought it was property values or something.) Sad!!
Im sure others can provide info on audios. There have been some wonderful
unschooling conferences (and still are upcoming!) that have recorded
speakers and such and you can purchase copies. Look on YouTube for the
momentSandra Dodd is on there, Dayna Martin, etc.
~Melissa, in MD :-)
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of b prince
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 10:22 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] New with quick question
I am new to the group and to the idea of unschooling. I've loved reading all
the wonderful info I can find, but time is short. I would love to find some
audios on unschooling. Does anyone have any ideas where to check?
And the next question that I'm struggling with is how do you afford to
unschool? I know that sounds really stupid, but I've read over and over
again that if a child shows an interest you provide for it. My girls love
horses and would love lessons but at $45/ hour each, I just can't do it. And
that is just one example. I'd love to hear how you provide
experiences/materials for your children without going broke.
Thanks
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2703 - Release Date: 02/22/10
02:34:00
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Faith Void
On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 10:21 AM, b prince <flyingtwinsmom@...> wrote:
My kids love horses too. All three of them. The two older ones have each had
2 horse riding sessions. We haven't figured out a way to afford regular
lessons but there are other things. My little ones do pony rides whenever we
can find them and have money. We have a few board games that pertain to
horses. We've done things and looked them up online here and there. If they
were more interested I am sure I could have thought of other ideas.
There are always many resources for any thing. You tube videos, movies, TV
shows, toys and games, video games, food, specialty shops, etc. We "shop" on
freecycle and craigslist. I hit thrift stores and discount places, yard
sales and trash piles. I ask friends and relatives to get certain things or
give them an interests (like E is into robotics) I look for community
resources, either in real life or on line. We create things all the time.
Also before you say can't, consider. Is there anything you spend $100 on
each month that doesn't serve your family's needs right now? Can you pinch a
few bucks from groceries and a few more from this or that, cut out a
restaurant meal etc. Get creative. Can you forgo organic fair trade coffee
and get a less expensive kind for a couple months? Think outside the box.
You still may not be able to do it. It is important to look for alternatives
and extraordinary ideas.
Our kids sometimes have to wait for things they want. It isn't because we
don't want them to have things or we thing that waiting will build
character, waiting is sometimes necessary. When the kids wanted an Xbox we
didn't have the resources to run out and buy one. We put it on our
collective vision board. We skimped and saved and worked towards it.
I just spent my youngest child's nap time looking for some activities for my
kids. We are really broke (not poor but broke) . I am needing to be very
creative right now :-) I scoured the libraries, community events, nature
centers, recreation places, museums (for discount days) and various
specialty places I could find that might have a free or cheap program that
one or more of my kids might like. I write them on our calendar.
Two resources that are invaluable to our family are our calendar and our
(collectively and individually) vision board. They really help me focus my
energies on what is important to us right now.
Faith
--
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Meredith pointed out some.
>
> I am new to the group and to the idea of unschooling. I've loved reading
> all the wonderful info I can find, but time is short. I would love to find
> some audios on unschooling. Does anyone have any ideas where to check?
>
>It is life, we afford what we can when we can.
> And the next question that I'm struggling with is how do you afford to
> unschool? I know that sounds really stupid, but I've read over and over
> again that if a child shows an interest you provide for it. My girls love
> horses and would love lessons but at $45/ hour each, I just can't do it. And
> that is just one example. I'd love to hear how you provide
> experiences/materials for your children without going broke.
> Thanks
>
My kids love horses too. All three of them. The two older ones have each had
2 horse riding sessions. We haven't figured out a way to afford regular
lessons but there are other things. My little ones do pony rides whenever we
can find them and have money. We have a few board games that pertain to
horses. We've done things and looked them up online here and there. If they
were more interested I am sure I could have thought of other ideas.
There are always many resources for any thing. You tube videos, movies, TV
shows, toys and games, video games, food, specialty shops, etc. We "shop" on
freecycle and craigslist. I hit thrift stores and discount places, yard
sales and trash piles. I ask friends and relatives to get certain things or
give them an interests (like E is into robotics) I look for community
resources, either in real life or on line. We create things all the time.
Also before you say can't, consider. Is there anything you spend $100 on
each month that doesn't serve your family's needs right now? Can you pinch a
few bucks from groceries and a few more from this or that, cut out a
restaurant meal etc. Get creative. Can you forgo organic fair trade coffee
and get a less expensive kind for a couple months? Think outside the box.
You still may not be able to do it. It is important to look for alternatives
and extraordinary ideas.
Our kids sometimes have to wait for things they want. It isn't because we
don't want them to have things or we thing that waiting will build
character, waiting is sometimes necessary. When the kids wanted an Xbox we
didn't have the resources to run out and buy one. We put it on our
collective vision board. We skimped and saved and worked towards it.
I just spent my youngest child's nap time looking for some activities for my
kids. We are really broke (not poor but broke) . I am needing to be very
creative right now :-) I scoured the libraries, community events, nature
centers, recreation places, museums (for discount days) and various
specialty places I could find that might have a free or cheap program that
one or more of my kids might like. I write them on our calendar.
Two resources that are invaluable to our family are our calendar and our
(collectively and individually) vision board. They really help me focus my
energies on what is important to us right now.
Faith
--
www.bearthmama.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The Coffee Goddess
>>And the next question that I'm struggling with is how do you afford tounschool? I know that sounds really stupid, but I've read over and over
again that if a child shows an interest you provide for it. My girls
love horses and would love lessons but at $45/ hour each, I just can't
do it.>>
Some ideas:
*Some stables will trade clean-up work for lessons.
*If you join a 4-H group, there are often people who will "lease" you horses for the year, for riding, care, etc. This also may be a way to contact people who have horses who are in need of exercise or just don't mind if you come over and ride.
*Check into scholarships.
*I have seen more than once on Craigslist, people looking for someone to exercise their horses.
*You can often just rent a horse for an hour ride for $20 or so, and perhaps it's the experience with the horses that your girls want, not the lessons. My parents bought me a horse when I was about 7, and I learned how to ride just hanging out, jumping onto her back from the fence, walking with her in the pasture, etc.
Also, think about what you or your husband does, either for work or hobby, that is barter-able. I am a coffee roaster, and I trade for EVERYTHING. People with horses need their dishes washed, their computers fixed, their cars washed, whatever it is you do;)
This is just about riding lessons, but it works for everything. A few years ago my daughter was very interested in cryptozoology. We went to the national convention (??Who knew there was one!), and she was invited to be a volunteer at the next convention--she had to work the ticket booth, and got free admittance to all the lectures! Situations like this are easy to find once you know to look for them! :)
Dana
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
play_jer_eyes
So, I'm new to this group (just joined about... oh, ten minutes ago!) and I know that in the introductory e-mail to the group it said we might need to lurk for a while, but I'm known for being a bit of a rebel, so here goes!
Just so you know that people do turn out rather well after pretty darn dramatic experiences in school, let me tell you a bit about my story. I was also a "brain" in school, did well on tests, but found it boring. My escape was to read, so I never lost that love (thank goodness) but I spent every school day sitting in the back of class waiting to get home where my *real* education would begin.
Then, in middle school, I had a principal who actually assaulted me. It turned out she had assaulted several other girls in the school (ten or eleven came forward; who knows how many were too scared). So, my mom and the parents of these girls took us out of school and we all started homeschooling together. We were all the smart, behaviorally challenged girls, and many of us actually looked pretty similar. Anyway, we had each other, something many people leaving school in the older years don't have.
I am blessed with dyslexia and I learn my own way, something the school tried to convince me made me stupid. I never believed it. My mom and I tried an Independent Study Program for a few months, before I finally told her I was either dropping out of school to join Cirque du Soleil or we were going to unschool. I had just finished reading Grace Llewellyn's book "The Teenage Liberation Handbook." My mom was skeptical (in fact, she asked all the same questions you are asking now) but she trusted me and we tentatively agreed I would have one year to try unschooling and then, for my "freshman" year of high school, I would use my father's address to go to a better school in a much nicer district.
In my heart, I knew I would never have to go back to school.
I did, however, take a few classes (drama, speech and debate, journalism) for one period per day at the *good* public school. They were fine with me taking first period, although I got tackled by truancy officers and security for ditching for the first few weeks! :)
Anyway, long story short, I love unschooling. I graduated at the age of 16 and worked full time for a year. Then I went travelling around the country, with nothing but a backpack and some art supplies. I made money selling art on the street. When I applied to college a few years later, they felt I had a *lot* to offer and gave me a full ride scholarship, elected me for Presidential Fellows (the most prestigious fellowship on campus) and gave me a job as a subsitute professor.
Every one of the girls who was initially assualted and allowed to homeschool/unschool (we all rebelled at the same time!) recovered and went on to lead really happy lives.
So, this rather loooong story is just meant to show you that, no matter how hurt your daughter is feeling right now or how scared you are, unschooling provides you the time to heal. Universities are, for the most part, overjoyed to accept unschooled students who have unique transcripts and abilities that don't necessarily fit the mold. And given time and support, your daughter will once again flourish.
By the way, I joined this group because now I am a proud mama of a 5.5yods who absolutely adores unschooling!
HTH,
Tamara in SoCal
Just so you know that people do turn out rather well after pretty darn dramatic experiences in school, let me tell you a bit about my story. I was also a "brain" in school, did well on tests, but found it boring. My escape was to read, so I never lost that love (thank goodness) but I spent every school day sitting in the back of class waiting to get home where my *real* education would begin.
Then, in middle school, I had a principal who actually assaulted me. It turned out she had assaulted several other girls in the school (ten or eleven came forward; who knows how many were too scared). So, my mom and the parents of these girls took us out of school and we all started homeschooling together. We were all the smart, behaviorally challenged girls, and many of us actually looked pretty similar. Anyway, we had each other, something many people leaving school in the older years don't have.
I am blessed with dyslexia and I learn my own way, something the school tried to convince me made me stupid. I never believed it. My mom and I tried an Independent Study Program for a few months, before I finally told her I was either dropping out of school to join Cirque du Soleil or we were going to unschool. I had just finished reading Grace Llewellyn's book "The Teenage Liberation Handbook." My mom was skeptical (in fact, she asked all the same questions you are asking now) but she trusted me and we tentatively agreed I would have one year to try unschooling and then, for my "freshman" year of high school, I would use my father's address to go to a better school in a much nicer district.
In my heart, I knew I would never have to go back to school.
I did, however, take a few classes (drama, speech and debate, journalism) for one period per day at the *good* public school. They were fine with me taking first period, although I got tackled by truancy officers and security for ditching for the first few weeks! :)
Anyway, long story short, I love unschooling. I graduated at the age of 16 and worked full time for a year. Then I went travelling around the country, with nothing but a backpack and some art supplies. I made money selling art on the street. When I applied to college a few years later, they felt I had a *lot* to offer and gave me a full ride scholarship, elected me for Presidential Fellows (the most prestigious fellowship on campus) and gave me a job as a subsitute professor.
Every one of the girls who was initially assualted and allowed to homeschool/unschool (we all rebelled at the same time!) recovered and went on to lead really happy lives.
So, this rather loooong story is just meant to show you that, no matter how hurt your daughter is feeling right now or how scared you are, unschooling provides you the time to heal. Universities are, for the most part, overjoyed to accept unschooled students who have unique transcripts and abilities that don't necessarily fit the mold. And given time and support, your daughter will once again flourish.
By the way, I joined this group because now I am a proud mama of a 5.5yods who absolutely adores unschooling!
HTH,
Tamara in SoCal
Gwen
I love horses. When I was young, my best friend had horses so I was able to, sort of, grow up around horses. I was so horse crazy! I read all the Black Stallion books, all the Margurite Henry books, if had a horse anywhere in the book - I read it! One of my favorite books was a coffee table book that had these glorious pictures of all the different breeds and information about each one.
The library is great for grabbing 15 books on a single topic! I saw a computer game at the library today that was all about horses. I know the Wii & DS have horse based games.
When I was a pre-teen, I traded yardwork for a chance to ride a friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend's horse.
Where we live there is a county Parks & Recreation department that offers lower cost classes. I've seen horseback riding lessons (4 classes/month, I think for $80 - ok, still not cheap)).
Last summer we visited a large animal rescue & they had several horses (and pigs & goats too!). The kids loved it. We were able to touch & feed all the animals.
Maybe you could arrange a tour of a local stable?
I've had great luck finding events at the local fairgrounds - maybe you could attend a 4-H horse show or something similar?
Gwen
And the next question that I'm struggling with is how do you afford to
unschool? I know that sounds really stupid, but I've read over and over
again that if a child shows an interest you provide for it. My girls love
horses and would love lessons but at $45/ hour each, I just can't do it. And
that is just one example. I'd love to hear how you provide
experiences/materials for your children without going broke.
Thanks
The library is great for grabbing 15 books on a single topic! I saw a computer game at the library today that was all about horses. I know the Wii & DS have horse based games.
When I was a pre-teen, I traded yardwork for a chance to ride a friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend's horse.
Where we live there is a county Parks & Recreation department that offers lower cost classes. I've seen horseback riding lessons (4 classes/month, I think for $80 - ok, still not cheap)).
Last summer we visited a large animal rescue & they had several horses (and pigs & goats too!). The kids loved it. We were able to touch & feed all the animals.
Maybe you could arrange a tour of a local stable?
I've had great luck finding events at the local fairgrounds - maybe you could attend a 4-H horse show or something similar?
Gwen
And the next question that I'm struggling with is how do you afford to
unschool? I know that sounds really stupid, but I've read over and over
again that if a child shows an interest you provide for it. My girls love
horses and would love lessons but at $45/ hour each, I just can't do it. And
that is just one example. I'd love to hear how you provide
experiences/materials for your children without going broke.
Thanks
Debra Rossing
> Also, think about what you or your husband does, either for work orhobby, that is barter-able. I am a coffee roaster, and I trade for
EVERYTHING. People with horses need their dishes washed, their computers
fixed, their cars washed, whatever it is you do;)
Just a caveat since this is tax-season: if you barter a product or
service that you would normally charge for, that counts as taxable. For
instance, if you trade your professional dog grooming skills for someone
else's baby quilt, and normally you charge $30 for a comparable dog
grooming, then that's $30 of "income" for you even though it's in the
form of a baby quilt. The flip side is that if it's not something you'd
normally charge someone cash for (like if you would put it in a yard
sale or do it 'just for friends'), then there's no tax liability
involved. So, check with a tax professional if you barter your
professional-type skills to make sure you don't end up owing penalties
or whatever that end up costing more than the baby quilt would have.
Deb R
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Joyce Fetteroll
On Feb 22, 2010, at 10:21 AM, b prince wrote:
examine. People are often raised with a definition of what "too
expensive" means without actually digging into the worth of something.
This is a generalized expansion on the word "can't" and doesn't
necessarily apply to your situation. What the finances are in your
house aren't as important as seeing the idea of "can't" more clearly.
"Can't" can mean someone's beginning the paycheck period
"luxuriously" eating franks and beans and by the end is doling out
rice and beans and burning scrap wood to keep warm. But "can't" in
that context applies to money. Bartering is still an option. It's
been around long before money ;-)
"Can't" can mean it falls into some vague definition of "too
expensive". As an example, my daughter hated taking showers in a cold
bathroom, but I knew space heaters were energy hogs and therefore
expensive to run. But "too expensive" really only applies to long
term continuous use. They're an expensive way to heat a house, but to
run a 1000 Watt space heater for an hour costs (here in Boston) about
10 cents.
Another example is from the Ramona series. In one book she wraps up a
box of tissues for her friend as a birthday present because she would
have loved to have the freedom to pull out every tissue in a box. Her
mother argued that it was a waste. But to put it in context, where
else can you have an hour's worth of entertainment for $1?
"Can't" is a huge insurmountable roadblock that blocks the direct
route. It's helps enormously to get rid of it. *And*, as a second
step, to look at alternative routes to the goal. Or whether the goal
can be met in other ways.
It also helps to involve the kids in working towards something. If
you find a path that's just $20/hour but even that's too expensive,
what ways can the kids work towards that goal? Maybe they can collect
returnable soda cans. Maybe they can find cheap stuff at Goodwill and
sell it for even more on eBay.
That's more about the idea of turning "can't" into "can" than
specific solutions that might help in your situation. But the focus
of the list is on helping people grasp the principles. It's more
about helping someone learn how to fish than about handing out fish ;-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> My girls love horses and would love lessons but at $45/ hour each,To add to what others have said, "can't" is one of those things to
> I just can't do it.
examine. People are often raised with a definition of what "too
expensive" means without actually digging into the worth of something.
This is a generalized expansion on the word "can't" and doesn't
necessarily apply to your situation. What the finances are in your
house aren't as important as seeing the idea of "can't" more clearly.
"Can't" can mean someone's beginning the paycheck period
"luxuriously" eating franks and beans and by the end is doling out
rice and beans and burning scrap wood to keep warm. But "can't" in
that context applies to money. Bartering is still an option. It's
been around long before money ;-)
"Can't" can mean it falls into some vague definition of "too
expensive". As an example, my daughter hated taking showers in a cold
bathroom, but I knew space heaters were energy hogs and therefore
expensive to run. But "too expensive" really only applies to long
term continuous use. They're an expensive way to heat a house, but to
run a 1000 Watt space heater for an hour costs (here in Boston) about
10 cents.
Another example is from the Ramona series. In one book she wraps up a
box of tissues for her friend as a birthday present because she would
have loved to have the freedom to pull out every tissue in a box. Her
mother argued that it was a waste. But to put it in context, where
else can you have an hour's worth of entertainment for $1?
"Can't" is a huge insurmountable roadblock that blocks the direct
route. It's helps enormously to get rid of it. *And*, as a second
step, to look at alternative routes to the goal. Or whether the goal
can be met in other ways.
It also helps to involve the kids in working towards something. If
you find a path that's just $20/hour but even that's too expensive,
what ways can the kids work towards that goal? Maybe they can collect
returnable soda cans. Maybe they can find cheap stuff at Goodwill and
sell it for even more on eBay.
That's more about the idea of turning "can't" into "can" than
specific solutions that might help in your situation. But the focus
of the list is on helping people grasp the principles. It's more
about helping someone learn how to fish than about handing out fish ;-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], "play_jer_eyes" <play_jer_eyes@...> wrote:
I always love healing-via-unschooling stories! It was really amazing just the first year Ray was home seeing the sullen, angry young person grow into a much happier, more thoughtful, more creative person entirely. Unschooling does wonders.
Its not a panacea, though, not some kind of magic bullet. There are problems and issues in life that are bigger than unschooling. I'm not saying that to scare anyone off, just to be clear this isn't snake oil we're peddling ;)
Unschooling does wonders because it works *with* human nature, rather than against it. Humans are marvelously resiliant and can have amazing reserves of grace and strength, and that's something parents pulling kids out of school (or agreeing to let kids leave) can work to foster.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
>> So, this rather loooong story is just meant to show you that, no matter how hurt your daughter is feeling right now or how scared you are, unschooling provides you the time to heal.****************
I always love healing-via-unschooling stories! It was really amazing just the first year Ray was home seeing the sullen, angry young person grow into a much happier, more thoughtful, more creative person entirely. Unschooling does wonders.
Its not a panacea, though, not some kind of magic bullet. There are problems and issues in life that are bigger than unschooling. I'm not saying that to scare anyone off, just to be clear this isn't snake oil we're peddling ;)
Unschooling does wonders because it works *with* human nature, rather than against it. Humans are marvelously resiliant and can have amazing reserves of grace and strength, and that's something parents pulling kids out of school (or agreeing to let kids leave) can work to foster.
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
b prince
Sorry I haven't replied to all yet. I haven't dropped off the face of the earth. I tend to like to read, re-read and think a lot before replying. Thanks to all of you that gave specific ideas on how I might work horses into their lives. I'm still working on it. But this has shown me that I must be more creative in how I approach things. For instance, I can't think of a time that I've really bartered for anything. I'm a bit nervous about trying it. Would you share some experience? How do you ask about this and what might I be able to barter with? I'm thinking I would just ask outright but that may be awkward in a business. As for things we could barter, I can think of my photography when I get my camera back, but after that I run out of ideas. I'm not sure how to put a dollar amount on it either.
Also, I've been thinking over Joyce's post about "can't." My husband hates that word. I find I use it too often to mean "won't" or some such. When we got married, he was teaching me wood working and wouldn't ever let me say "I can't do it." I think I need to apply that more to our lives now. We don't have extra $, but that doesn't mean that I can't come up with some way to work out the horse situation and unschooling in general. I think I'm a bit nervous about trying unschooling because (promise you won't laugh or flame me) it sounds expensive. I can see how my girls would grow if I could provide more opportunities for them, but I'm so new to this that I fail to see different ways to do that.
Which leads my mind to asking about your homes. We live with other family, so we haven't been able to find a way to "strew" things that keeps the house in order for others. Can you unschool successfully in a "picked up" house? How? I tend to like to leave books, art projects, etc out, but that is only acceptable for a few days at most before everything needs to be "put away" again.
I'm struggling now with keeping one of the girl's rooms tidy. She throws clothes all over the place, leaves stuffed animals and, well, everything out. You can barely walk in her room, but I'm stuck on the "best" way to deal with this. I could go in and clean up for her, but would she learn anything from this? I could ask her to clean up with me or I could just leave it go. I'm struggling by trying to look at it (and everything about our lives now) in unschooling terms.
Thanks
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Also, I've been thinking over Joyce's post about "can't." My husband hates that word. I find I use it too often to mean "won't" or some such. When we got married, he was teaching me wood working and wouldn't ever let me say "I can't do it." I think I need to apply that more to our lives now. We don't have extra $, but that doesn't mean that I can't come up with some way to work out the horse situation and unschooling in general. I think I'm a bit nervous about trying unschooling because (promise you won't laugh or flame me) it sounds expensive. I can see how my girls would grow if I could provide more opportunities for them, but I'm so new to this that I fail to see different ways to do that.
Which leads my mind to asking about your homes. We live with other family, so we haven't been able to find a way to "strew" things that keeps the house in order for others. Can you unschool successfully in a "picked up" house? How? I tend to like to leave books, art projects, etc out, but that is only acceptable for a few days at most before everything needs to be "put away" again.
I'm struggling now with keeping one of the girl's rooms tidy. She throws clothes all over the place, leaves stuffed animals and, well, everything out. You can barely walk in her room, but I'm stuck on the "best" way to deal with this. I could go in and clean up for her, but would she learn anything from this? I could ask her to clean up with me or I could just leave it go. I'm struggling by trying to look at it (and everything about our lives now) in unschooling terms.
Thanks
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Joyce Fetteroll
On Feb 26, 2010, at 1:16 PM, b prince wrote:
For some reason this society thinks children are some creature other
than human ;-) Conventional parenting has parents treating children
in ways they would never expect an adult to respond positively to and
that would damage the relationship they had.
If someone held a value you didn't understand or agree with and they
made you comply with that value, what would you learn from them? (It
has to be a value that you don't agree with right now, not something
your future self might agree with.) Might you conclude they had some
control issues? That they valued their values more than you as a
separate unique individual? That the best method they had come up
with to resolve conflicting needs was to be bigger and stronger and
make someone do their bidding?
If you see the need for order as something you value that you can
share with your daughter it's far more likely she'll join in when you
ask than if you do the above. (The asking needs to be a real question
where "No, thanks," is an acceptable answer.) If she experiences
clean up as something done joyfully with an end result that has its
advantages (its disadvantages too!) she'll have pleasant associations
with it.
*If* she's been made to clean, she will probably need a recovery
period. Even if you change, it will take a while before the change
feels real to her. Asking if she'll help will feel like a new way of
telling her to do it. She'll need the freedom to say no.
It may take a long time before she does any spontaneous straightening
up on her own. As my daughter reached puberty I could see the shift
in her. Tasks that *I* thought were simple, like matching socks and
folding towels, she had found overwhelming. But as puberty approached
she was able to do them effortlessly.
This should help:
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/
Down the right side are several pages about chores.
And Sandra Dodd has several pages too:
http://sandradodd.com/chores/
Joyce
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> I could go in and clean up for her, but would she learn anythingYes. :-)
> from this?
For some reason this society thinks children are some creature other
than human ;-) Conventional parenting has parents treating children
in ways they would never expect an adult to respond positively to and
that would damage the relationship they had.
If someone held a value you didn't understand or agree with and they
made you comply with that value, what would you learn from them? (It
has to be a value that you don't agree with right now, not something
your future self might agree with.) Might you conclude they had some
control issues? That they valued their values more than you as a
separate unique individual? That the best method they had come up
with to resolve conflicting needs was to be bigger and stronger and
make someone do their bidding?
If you see the need for order as something you value that you can
share with your daughter it's far more likely she'll join in when you
ask than if you do the above. (The asking needs to be a real question
where "No, thanks," is an acceptable answer.) If she experiences
clean up as something done joyfully with an end result that has its
advantages (its disadvantages too!) she'll have pleasant associations
with it.
*If* she's been made to clean, she will probably need a recovery
period. Even if you change, it will take a while before the change
feels real to her. Asking if she'll help will feel like a new way of
telling her to do it. She'll need the freedom to say no.
It may take a long time before she does any spontaneous straightening
up on her own. As my daughter reached puberty I could see the shift
in her. Tasks that *I* thought were simple, like matching socks and
folding towels, she had found overwhelming. But as puberty approached
she was able to do them effortlessly.
This should help:
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/
Down the right side are several pages about chores.
And Sandra Dodd has several pages too:
http://sandradodd.com/chores/
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenna Robertson
:) Does your daughter want her room cleaned up?
It's interesting that once we stopped trying to make/bribe/encourage/demand that our girls clean their rooms the one who was the most resistant to cleaning (would melt down at the mention of the word) turned out to be the one who most valued having a clean space. Now when her room gets too messy for her happiness I go in and help for a bit and then she finishes up. She's also the first kid to jump in and help now when we have friends coming over and need to clear space for activities.
Another really wants her room cleaned up but does not want to do it, so I try and get up there whenever I can, though we haven't quite gotten it to her level of happiness because she has the room that friends play in the most so the chaos gets recreated regularly. Her joy when I clean up her room is so wonderful to see :).
The third was the one who complained the most about how her sisters made messes when they all shared one room. Once we created a bedroom for her you couldn't even walk into it. Where ever she sits in the house, clutter gathers at her side. :) But then one day when she was having friends over she went upstairs and started cleaning up the piles. And she's increasingly willing to jump in and help in ways other than cleaning - making food, doing things for her sisters.
Particularly if you live w/ extended family, it's important for a kid to have their own space be respected and kept the way that they want it since they have less control over the shared family space. :)
:)
Jenna
What is essential is to realize that children learn independently, not in bunches; that they learn out of interest and curiosity , not to please or appease the adults in power; and that they ought to be in control of their own learning, deciding for themselves what they want to learn and how they want to learn it. ~ John Holt ~ How Children Learn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It's interesting that once we stopped trying to make/bribe/encourage/demand that our girls clean their rooms the one who was the most resistant to cleaning (would melt down at the mention of the word) turned out to be the one who most valued having a clean space. Now when her room gets too messy for her happiness I go in and help for a bit and then she finishes up. She's also the first kid to jump in and help now when we have friends coming over and need to clear space for activities.
Another really wants her room cleaned up but does not want to do it, so I try and get up there whenever I can, though we haven't quite gotten it to her level of happiness because she has the room that friends play in the most so the chaos gets recreated regularly. Her joy when I clean up her room is so wonderful to see :).
The third was the one who complained the most about how her sisters made messes when they all shared one room. Once we created a bedroom for her you couldn't even walk into it. Where ever she sits in the house, clutter gathers at her side. :) But then one day when she was having friends over she went upstairs and started cleaning up the piles. And she's increasingly willing to jump in and help in ways other than cleaning - making food, doing things for her sisters.
Particularly if you live w/ extended family, it's important for a kid to have their own space be respected and kept the way that they want it since they have less control over the shared family space. :)
:)
Jenna
What is essential is to realize that children learn independently, not in bunches; that they learn out of interest and curiosity , not to please or appease the adults in power; and that they ought to be in control of their own learning, deciding for themselves what they want to learn and how they want to learn it. ~ John Holt ~ How Children Learn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plaidpanties666
--- In [email protected], b prince <flyingtwinsmom@...> wrote:
Think of this - most homeschooling families live on one income, so chances are, most unschoolers aren't rolling in dough. My family gets by one one income, mine - and I'm working in a luxury portion of the construction bus (plaster architechtural details - anyone need a ten foot coffered dome in their living room?) so work is thin on the ground these days. We're scraping by.
It takes some practice thinking outside the box, but its the sort of thing you get better at over time. Several people suggested getting farther out into farm country to look for horse opportunities - small farms and the like. Those places tend to come with ready-made chances to barter labor. It won't be glamorous - you might end up watching a couple toddlers while another mom gets a break by taking your big kids out on the horse for an hour.
Most of my "strewing" doesn't take the form of me leaving things out, but rather in the form of having things on-hand and making them accessible. And honestly, I'm not the tidiest person on the planet, so sometimes I clean in order to make things accessible, if you catch my drift. I joke that I "unstrew". My house is less a museum and more like a rummage sale.
I'm most likely to actively "strew" when one of my kids is obviously bored, in the form of going out (or online) and getting something new (to us) to add to the mix, or digging around for something I picked up along the way that I think would appeal. The rest of the time its the kids who are leading the way - asking, wondering, busy with projects and ideas, and I get to be the helper, partner, facilitator or consultant.
Mo likes it when I sort her legos for her, but doesn't keep them sorted. Its too much work, when she's in the moment of creation, to put things Back - it impedes her creativity. And by the time she's done the mess is more than she can handle - its overwhelming. Over time she's gotten more comfortable with smaller messes. For instance, since its been cold, she's been playing a lot on my bed and is totally fine cleaning up the bed so that I can get in it at night. A mess bigger than the bed is too much, still. But two years ago a mess As big as the bed would have been too much. As she's getting older, she's able to handle bigger tasks naturally.
My 16yo just brought me a truck load of rocks. The rocks are big flakes of slate to cover a particularly muddy patch in our path - its been a wet fall and winter and we're very muddy, here. It was a Lot of work on his part! Loading and unloading rocks isn't a picnic. He didn't have to do that, he did it to be helpful. But like I said, its not the sort of "help" most parents look for. That's okay. I'd be washing the floors whether he was here or not - I wouldn't have a new stone walkway, though, if he wasn't around (and really, its a partial solution to the muddy floor, too, what a sweetie).
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
>I think I'm a bit nervous about trying unschooling because (promise you won't laugh or flame me) it sounds expensive.****************
Think of this - most homeschooling families live on one income, so chances are, most unschoolers aren't rolling in dough. My family gets by one one income, mine - and I'm working in a luxury portion of the construction bus (plaster architechtural details - anyone need a ten foot coffered dome in their living room?) so work is thin on the ground these days. We're scraping by.
It takes some practice thinking outside the box, but its the sort of thing you get better at over time. Several people suggested getting farther out into farm country to look for horse opportunities - small farms and the like. Those places tend to come with ready-made chances to barter labor. It won't be glamorous - you might end up watching a couple toddlers while another mom gets a break by taking your big kids out on the horse for an hour.
>>I tend to like to leave books, art projects, etc out, but that is only acceptable for a few days at most before everything needs to be "put away" again....Okay, I put those two quotes together to give you an idea - what about "strewing" in your girls rooms? And yours if you have one? Do those spaces have to stay neat by some "house rules" or can y'all shut the doors if the others get upset about mess?
> I'm struggling now with keeping one of the girl's rooms tidy.
Most of my "strewing" doesn't take the form of me leaving things out, but rather in the form of having things on-hand and making them accessible. And honestly, I'm not the tidiest person on the planet, so sometimes I clean in order to make things accessible, if you catch my drift. I joke that I "unstrew". My house is less a museum and more like a rummage sale.
I'm most likely to actively "strew" when one of my kids is obviously bored, in the form of going out (or online) and getting something new (to us) to add to the mix, or digging around for something I picked up along the way that I think would appeal. The rest of the time its the kids who are leading the way - asking, wondering, busy with projects and ideas, and I get to be the helper, partner, facilitator or consultant.
>>I could go in and clean up for her, but would she learn anything from this?Yes! She'd learn that you're a kind and thoughtful person who wants her to be able to find her things! If it annoys her for you to clean, then don't - some people do better with a bit of disorder, believe it or not. Its a perceptual style.
Mo likes it when I sort her legos for her, but doesn't keep them sorted. Its too much work, when she's in the moment of creation, to put things Back - it impedes her creativity. And by the time she's done the mess is more than she can handle - its overwhelming. Over time she's gotten more comfortable with smaller messes. For instance, since its been cold, she's been playing a lot on my bed and is totally fine cleaning up the bed so that I can get in it at night. A mess bigger than the bed is too much, still. But two years ago a mess As big as the bed would have been too much. As she's getting older, she's able to handle bigger tasks naturally.
>> I could ask her to clean up with me or I could just leave it go.Invite her to help if you're able to clean cheerfully, but be willing to accept "no" for an answer. Kids are busy people! All that playing is How they learn, its important work. So if they're too busy to help, work on being okay with that. As they get older, and are better able to manage time and appreciate others' needs naturally, they'll look for ways to help out. It may not always be what you expect, though!
My 16yo just brought me a truck load of rocks. The rocks are big flakes of slate to cover a particularly muddy patch in our path - its been a wet fall and winter and we're very muddy, here. It was a Lot of work on his part! Loading and unloading rocks isn't a picnic. He didn't have to do that, he did it to be helpful. But like I said, its not the sort of "help" most parents look for. That's okay. I'd be washing the floors whether he was here or not - I wouldn't have a new stone walkway, though, if he wasn't around (and really, its a partial solution to the muddy floor, too, what a sweetie).
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
gemlily14
horses are great, kind souls and generally good with kids.
others have already given some good suggestions, just thought I would add that maybe your kids could help out in a volunteer capacity with horses, say riding for the disabled. the barter is a good idea, maybe your kids could muck out stalls in exchange for lessons or a reduced price. I have found most people willing to find a solution that suits you and them, if you ask for help.
good luck
others have already given some good suggestions, just thought I would add that maybe your kids could help out in a volunteer capacity with horses, say riding for the disabled. the barter is a good idea, maybe your kids could muck out stalls in exchange for lessons or a reduced price. I have found most people willing to find a solution that suits you and them, if you ask for help.
good luck
--- In [email protected], b prince <flyingtwinsmom@...> wrote:
>
> I am new to the group and to the idea of unschooling. I've loved reading all the wonderful info I can find, but time is short. I would love to find some audios on unschooling. Does anyone have any ideas where to check?
>
> And the next question that I'm struggling with is how do you afford to unschool? I know that sounds really stupid, but I've read over and over again that if a child shows an interest you provide for it. My girls love horses and would love lessons but at $45/ hour each, I just can't do it. And that is just one example. I'd love to hear how you provide experiences/materials for your children without going broke.
> Thanks
>
>
>
>
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>