new online support group for parents against violent play
sunflowermom30
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/parents-against-violent-play/
in case anyone here is interested. the info is at the link above.
tina
in case anyone here is interested. the info is at the link above.
tina
gruvystarchild
--- In [email protected], "sunflowermom30" <sunflowermom38@...> wrote:
I have four video gamers, two of which play extremely intense/violent games and are also two of the most peace-loving humans you could ever meet.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
>I only let this through because I think it's a really good topic for discussion. I think that limiting your child's choices in video games and tv can be just as harmful as other limitations and kids are quite adept at understanding the difference between real life violence and game violence.
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/parents-against-violent-play/
>
> in case anyone here is interested. the info is at the link above.
>
> tina
>
I have four video gamers, two of which play extremely intense/violent games and are also two of the most peace-loving humans you could ever meet.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
I think the violence is in the parents side by not allowing children to play
pretend.
Pretend play ( depicting violence or any thing else) is how kids experiment the world around them.
i have a friend that thinks that stomping goombas on Super Mario games is violent.
I just shake my head.
One of my kids favorite pretend games is saving each other from evil things a la Super Mario ( yes we love Mario and the gang).
The other is being a calf and coming out of the cows belly.My 8 year old nephew love the game Left for Death and I got to say that it looks pretty fun to play.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pretend.
Pretend play ( depicting violence or any thing else) is how kids experiment the world around them.
i have a friend that thinks that stomping goombas on Super Mario games is violent.
I just shake my head.
One of my kids favorite pretend games is saving each other from evil things a la Super Mario ( yes we love Mario and the gang).
The other is being a calf and coming out of the cows belly.My 8 year old nephew love the game Left for Death and I got to say that it looks pretty fun to play.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/parents-against-violent-play/Standing between a real live person and something they love is far more
violent than a someone pretending to destroy something they know isn't
real.
It's using the principle of power over someone to stop them from doing
something you don't want them to do. There may not be blood but how is
it different than a big country invading a smaller country with a "peace
keeping" force to make them do something or stop them from doing
something.
That's the ideal you're modeling for your children for their conflicts,
pretty much exactly what you're trying to prevent them from doing.
You're saying it's okay to use your greater power to make someone
conform to your desires for them. *You* may see it as loving protection,
but someone being forced never can. It feels exactly like what it is:
control, force. It feels like "I don't care about you and what you want.
I only care that you conform to what makes me comfortable."
No matter how sincerely loving your intentions, they *can't* be felt
that way through power. The intent means nothing. The actions are saying
the opposite.
This is reaction to fear. While it makes sense that violent play will
yield violent acts, there's absolutely no evidence for that. (The
studies are flawed.) There is, in fact, counter evidence right among
100s of our own kids, that when kids are allowed to freely pursue their
interests, including violent video games, that they become quite the
opposite of violent. (Maybe pretend violence helps center them even more
by letting them play in a world where they can see violence begets
violence and it's not a loving world. It's fun to play in a world where
the rules are different but it's comforting to know they can shut it off
and not have to live there.)
If anyone here is thinking about controlling their children's video
games, do get yourself to an unschooling conference and see the older
children of long time unschoolers. You'd really never meet a kinder more
thoughtful group of kids. My daughter is a sweet heart who has played
violent video games and the most violent thing she's ever done in real
life is snuggle a cat who prefers not to be picked up.
There are loads of good relationship building help at:
http://sandradodd.com/videogameshttp://joyfullyrejoycing.com/ (down the
left hand side)
C'mon people. We're adults with 20+ years on the planet. We can come up
with much better ways to resolve conflicts than through power over
someone. We can find more relationship building ways of being with our
children than forcing our ideas on them. One way you can do right now is
play *with* them. Take off your cloak of disapproval and really be with
your child, enjoy their enjoyment, find out what it is they love about
the games. Play yourself. If you can't do that without disapproval, read
some. Your children and your relationship with them will thank you for
it.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shira Rocklin
Is it somewhat at our discretion, though, to try to shield our children
from certain kinds of violence (some of the really bloody and violent
games, the everyday news stories, etc...) if we feel they might be too
young for it? To clarify, I don't think I would introduce a 3-4 year
old to many of the games I've seen and heard about, but maybe a 6 year
old who is expressing interest, I might? I guess I mean, at what ages
do children generally develope the ability to tell real from pretend?
If I remember, for the toddlers and maybe preschoolers, its a bit blurry
for them.
I was so happy to be able to let go of my fears of gun pretending and
other violence when I started reading unschooling stuff. I love the
idea that children play out their fears :)
from certain kinds of violence (some of the really bloody and violent
games, the everyday news stories, etc...) if we feel they might be too
young for it? To clarify, I don't think I would introduce a 3-4 year
old to many of the games I've seen and heard about, but maybe a 6 year
old who is expressing interest, I might? I guess I mean, at what ages
do children generally develope the ability to tell real from pretend?
If I remember, for the toddlers and maybe preschoolers, its a bit blurry
for them.
I was so happy to be able to let go of my fears of gun pretending and
other violence when I started reading unschooling stuff. I love the
idea that children play out their fears :)
Jenna Robertson
"I love the
idea that children play out their fears :)"
:)
Children also play to feel strong or in control. I used to be very against violent types of play and I have children who can be quite sensitive about other people getting hurt (physically and emotionally). However, over time that has changed. Playing super heros and saving the planet from evil bad guys (or having global warming...) leaves them feeling very capable.. And I love the creative special powers they come up with!
As long as everyone feels safe in the game, it's all good. And the day that a friend's son was over and I found out later that he and the girls were playing WWII (a passion of the boys) I didn't even freak out! :) His father found out later and asked him, "What were you thinking?!?!" I really had no idea how much my girls really did know about WWII until that day when we were talking about what they'd played :).
It does depend on the child's sensitivities. And I don't think there's any need to go out of your way to introduce violent games to very young children. However, when my girls were little and the uncles were playing some game that involved blood dripping down the screen, they fact that I didn't freak out meant they didn't need to freak out. And the fact that they weren't bothered let me know that they were o.k. They were much more interested in spending time w/ their dad and their uncles than in what was going on w/ the game at that age.
On 9/11 our girls were 5, 2 and almost 1. We didn't tell them what was going on and we didn't watch any news w/ them in the room. We had the luxury of shielding them from something that was hard to cope w/ for adults and children alike. My cousin lives in a town where parents/friends/soccer coaches didn't come home from work on 9/11. She didn't have that luxury.. Just because it's out there doesn't mean your kids need to be exposed (games or real life) however if your kids are interested then it's time to figure out how to support that interest in a way that's appropriate to the child and their needs.
I don't watch the news, I don't like graphic images.
:)
Jenna
"What's the matter with you? All it takes is faith and trust. Oh! And something I forgot. Dust!"......
" Yep, just a little bit of pixie dust. Now, think of the happiest things. It's the same as having wings." - Peter Pan
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
idea that children play out their fears :)"
:)
Children also play to feel strong or in control. I used to be very against violent types of play and I have children who can be quite sensitive about other people getting hurt (physically and emotionally). However, over time that has changed. Playing super heros and saving the planet from evil bad guys (or having global warming...) leaves them feeling very capable.. And I love the creative special powers they come up with!
As long as everyone feels safe in the game, it's all good. And the day that a friend's son was over and I found out later that he and the girls were playing WWII (a passion of the boys) I didn't even freak out! :) His father found out later and asked him, "What were you thinking?!?!" I really had no idea how much my girls really did know about WWII until that day when we were talking about what they'd played :).
It does depend on the child's sensitivities. And I don't think there's any need to go out of your way to introduce violent games to very young children. However, when my girls were little and the uncles were playing some game that involved blood dripping down the screen, they fact that I didn't freak out meant they didn't need to freak out. And the fact that they weren't bothered let me know that they were o.k. They were much more interested in spending time w/ their dad and their uncles than in what was going on w/ the game at that age.
On 9/11 our girls were 5, 2 and almost 1. We didn't tell them what was going on and we didn't watch any news w/ them in the room. We had the luxury of shielding them from something that was hard to cope w/ for adults and children alike. My cousin lives in a town where parents/friends/soccer coaches didn't come home from work on 9/11. She didn't have that luxury.. Just because it's out there doesn't mean your kids need to be exposed (games or real life) however if your kids are interested then it's time to figure out how to support that interest in a way that's appropriate to the child and their needs.
I don't watch the news, I don't like graphic images.
:)
Jenna
"What's the matter with you? All it takes is faith and trust. Oh! And something I forgot. Dust!"......
" Yep, just a little bit of pixie dust. Now, think of the happiest things. It's the same as having wings." - Peter Pan
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
otherstar
I don't go out and deliberately expose my children to anything violent. On the flip side, I don't deliberately shield them either. If we go to somebody's house and they are playing a violent game, then my kids can take it or leave it based on their own comfort level. We have gone to visit family while they were playing/watching violent stuff. There is a good chance that a 3-4 year old will simply ignore it. I know my 2.5 year old ignores it. I watch the news all the time, usually in my room. One of my girls has always watched the news with me even when she was 3 or 4. She is very interested in current events. Whenever something bloody or violent is shown, we talk about it if it concerns/bothers her. Violence has never bothered her.
There is no magic age where children start to develop the ability to tell real from pretend. It is very different for each child. You can probably find some averages but averages don't apply to your unique child.
Connie
From: Shira Rocklin
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 11:31 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: new online support group for parents against violent play
Is it somewhat at our discretion, though, to try to shield our children
from certain kinds of violence (some of the really bloody and violent
games, the everyday news stories, etc...) if we feel they might be too
young for it? To clarify, I don't think I would introduce a 3-4 year
old to many of the games I've seen and heard about, but maybe a 6 year
old who is expressing interest, I might? I guess I mean, at what ages
do children generally develope the ability to tell real from pretend?
If I remember, for the toddlers and maybe preschoolers, its a bit blurry
for them.
.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.129/2606 - Release Date: 01/07/10 13:35:00
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
There is no magic age where children start to develop the ability to tell real from pretend. It is very different for each child. You can probably find some averages but averages don't apply to your unique child.
Connie
From: Shira Rocklin
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 11:31 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: new online support group for parents against violent play
Is it somewhat at our discretion, though, to try to shield our children
from certain kinds of violence (some of the really bloody and violent
games, the everyday news stories, etc...) if we feel they might be too
young for it? To clarify, I don't think I would introduce a 3-4 year
old to many of the games I've seen and heard about, but maybe a 6 year
old who is expressing interest, I might? I guess I mean, at what ages
do children generally develope the ability to tell real from pretend?
If I remember, for the toddlers and maybe preschoolers, its a bit blurry
for them.
.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.129/2606 - Release Date: 01/07/10 13:35:00
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
gruvystarchild
~~And I don't think there's any need
to go out of your way to introduce violent games to very young children. ~~
When you have older children it's pretty hard to keep it from the young ones. I didn't go out of my way to introduce anything in particular that was violent but by virtue of having four children very spread out in age (11 years between youngest and oldest) they see and hear a lot that might be considered "inappropriate".
I think most damage comes from assuming children can't figure what appeals to them and what doesn't and run with that.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
to go out of your way to introduce violent games to very young children. ~~
When you have older children it's pretty hard to keep it from the young ones. I didn't go out of my way to introduce anything in particular that was violent but by virtue of having four children very spread out in age (11 years between youngest and oldest) they see and hear a lot that might be considered "inappropriate".
I think most damage comes from assuming children can't figure what appeals to them and what doesn't and run with that.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
plaidpanties666
>>Is it somewhat at our discretion, though, to try to shield our children from certain kinds of violence (some of the really bloody and violent games, the everyday news stories, etc) if we feel they might be too young for it? To clarify, I don't think I would introduce a 3-4year old to many of the games I've seen and heard about, but maybe a 6 year old who is expressing interest, I might?Well, the idea of "expressing interest" is pretty significant! There are things I wouldn't offer my 8yo, or 16yo for that matter! Because those things aren't interesting to them. Ray hasn't the least bit of interest in a Spongebob game, and Mo's not terribly interested in God of War. At 4, Mo was more interested in games that were easy to play than anything else, and Grand Theft Auto isn't the easiest game in the world!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
If a young child is expressing interest in a game that would seem more to the tastes of an older, its useful to ask why? Is there an older sibling or parent who enjoys that game? That's a common reason. The child is looking to connect, and maybe other ways could be found for the younger child to get those connection needs met, ways that don't include forbidding the younger child from playing.
>>At what ages do children generally develop the ability to tell real from pretend?To some extent, I'm not sure humans ever lose that ability we believe all sorts of things on very little evidence at all, you know! Children, by nature, experiment as a way to learn about the world. Sometimes this experimentation is taken to mean they "don't understand the difference" between reality and fantasy. Its just as realistic to say that kind of experimentation is part of *how* they understand that difference. The difference between video game "physics" and real physics becomes apparent very quickly. The difference between a dead enemy in a game and, say, roadkill, is also obvious. The difference between the trash talk in a video game and saying something like that to a parent or sibling is something it can take longer to explore, because people react in a variety of different ways.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)