sharon

Hello Everyone and Happy New Year,
I have a question about testing. This is our first year of required testing (5th grade). I am debating about 3 different options.
1) Don't tell my dtr about the test, just take it myself and submit it.
2) Ask my dtr if she wants to take it or not.
or
3) Give it to my dtr and help her with it if she wants help.
I am curious about how other RU's deal with or have dealt with this. I am also open to other choices.
Sharon
P.S. Not sure if #1 is an option anymore. She is aware now that testing happens this year. Went to a dinner party tonight and someone asked the typical question, "Don't you have to test them at a certain age?" DD was with me when I responded to this question.

Nicole Willoughby

Hrmmm I think the answer to that would depend a lot on wether or not your daughter would actually be in danger of being forced to attend school if she did not do well on the test.


Nicole 





--- On Sun, 1/3/10, sharon <1drflmthr@...> wrote:

From: sharon <1drflmthr@...>
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] standardized testing
To: [email protected]
Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 1:17 AM







 









Hello Everyone and Happy New Year,

I have a question about testing. This is our first year of required testing (5th grade). I am debating about 3 different options.

1) Don't tell my dtr about the test, just take it myself and submit it.

2) Ask my dtr if she wants to take it or not.

or

3) Give it to my dtr and help her with it if she wants help.

I am curious about how other RU's deal with or have dealt with this. I am also open to other choices.

Sharon

P.S. Not sure if #1 is an option anymore. She is aware now that testing happens this year. Went to a dinner party tonight and someone asked the typical question, "Don't you have to test them at a certain age?" DD was with me when I responded to this question.

























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BrendaMarie Hoffman

My daughter also knows about testing for next year but I still plan to opt for #1 as my dd doesn't do well with worksheets, let alone tests.
 =^..^= BrendaMarie
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change.
The courage to change the things I can.
And the wisdom to know where to hide the bodies
of anyone who says "You're perfectly healthy, Fibromyalgia is all in your head."




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sharon

I am not concerned about whether or not she would do well. It is more a matter of putting her thru what I consider and unnecessary process. Thoughts?
Sharon

--- In [email protected], Nicole Willoughby <cncnawilloughby@...> wrote:
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> Hrmmm I think the answer to that would depend a lot on wether or not your daughter would actually be in danger of being forced to attend school if she did not do well on the test.
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> Nicole 
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> --- On Sun, 1/3/10, sharon <1drflmthr@...> wrote:
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> From: sharon <1drflmthr@...>
> Subject: [unschoolingbasics] standardized testing
> To: [email protected]
> Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 1:17 AM
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> Hello Everyone and Happy New Year,
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> I have a question about testing. This is our first year of required testing (5th grade). I am debating about 3 different options.
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> I am curious about how other RU's deal with or have dealt with this. I am also open to other choices.
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> Sharon
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> P.S. Not sure if #1 is an option anymore. She is aware now that testing happens this year. Went to a dinner party tonight and someone asked the typical question, "Don't you have to test them at a certain age?" DD was with me when I responded to this question.
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Jenna Robertson

Your daughter should be able to answer this question for you :) How does she feel about taking a test?  Ask her w/out putting your baggage into the question :)
 
Jenna


 
"What's the matter with you? All it takes is faith and trust. Oh! And something I forgot. Dust!"......
" Yep, just a little bit of pixie dust. Now, think of the happiest things. It's the same as having wings."                -  Peter Pan
 
 
 

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plaidpanties666

I'd ask her what she wants to do, personally, but first check and see what happens if she "does poorly" - are there consequences you'd rather not deal with? Be sure you have realistic information to give her. Some states don't even require you to turn the test in to anyone, just keep it on file, so the "results" are virtually irrelevant.

Its too late for this option for y'all, but anyone else who's looking at this sort of option in the future, one solution is to "hold back" your child a grade and then "skip" to the next the following year.

If its not the sort of test where you have to go to a facility, you and she can look over the test together and Then decide. She might want to try it, get bored and say "you finish it mama."

---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)

Marla

We have to do the standardized test for the first time this year, too (thanks for bringing up such an excellent question, Sharon!!). According to the New York state regs, you do have to send in the scores and if they are inadequate, you will be put on academic probation. Here's the section of the regs:

(v) If a score on a test is determined to be inadequate, the program shall be placed on probation pursuant to subdivision (i) of this section. A student's score shall be deemed adequate if:

(a) the student has a composite score above the thirty-third percentile on national norms; or

(b) the student's score reflects one academic year of growth as compared to a test administered during or subsequent to the prior school year.


So, there is a consequence for a poor score. And as I'm allowing my kids to learn what they want, when they want, that is a concern for me. I also know that being the person I am (I was very anal about school and tests and overstudied for everything - LOL. I don't know why, but to me knowledge was (and still is deep down inside of me)of the utmost value), I'm afraid that I will be impacted by any score she gets, and I don't want that.

I originally was going to do it as a game, here's a bunch of questions, let's see how many we can answer (with the use of books, google, etc.). But I know sometimes dd does feel academically inadequate because of her schooled friends or a show on tv. So, now I'm thinking I like Sharon's first option of not saying a thing and just taking it myself.

Marla



--- In [email protected], "plaidpanties666" <meredith@...> wrote:
>
> I'd ask her what she wants to do, personally, but first check and see what happens if she "does poorly" - are there consequences you'd rather not deal with? Be sure you have realistic information to give her. Some states don't even require you to turn the test in to anyone, just keep it on file, so the "results" are virtually irrelevant.
>
> Its too late for this option for y'all, but anyone else who's looking at this sort of option in the future, one solution is to "hold back" your child a grade and then "skip" to the next the following year.
>
> If its not the sort of test where you have to go to a facility, you and she can look over the test together and Then decide. She might want to try it, get bored and say "you finish it mama."
>
> ---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
>

Jenna Robertson

I checked in w/ my 13 yr old on this and asked her what she'd think of me taking a test for her and submitting it w/out telling her.  "That would be weird." 
 
As some one relatively new to unschooling, I'm trying to understand how taking a test for your child w/out telling them promotes trust in your relationship.  If you haven't asked your child what they want to do about the test it doesn't show trust in their ability to make choices/be a part of the process of their education.  It would seem that the fear of the school district coming and checking up on you would be more important than the integrity of your relationship with your child, not to mention your own integrity as a person. 
 
Jenna
 
 
 
 
 
 
"What's the matter with you? All it takes is faith and trust. Oh! And something I forgot. Dust!"......
" Yep, just a little bit of pixie dust. Now, think of the happiest things. It's the same as having wings."                -  Peter Pan
 
 
 

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plaidpanties666

--- In [email protected], Jenna Robertson <mamamole@...> wrote:
>> As some one relatively new to unschooling, I'm trying to understand how taking a test for your child w/out telling them promotes trust in your relationship.
***********************

It would depend a whooooole lot of on the specific circumstances. When Ray was still deschooling (he left school at 13) we didn't say much of anything to him about what we were doing in terms of placating the state - he didn't need one tiny bit more stress about The System, he needed to know that everything was being taken care of so he could enjoy himself at home.

---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)

Marla

Good point, Jenna! We've discussed testing on and off through the years, but not recently. So, I will ask my daughter what she would like to do and we'll take it from there.

I guess some of my concern was from my own baggage of hating tests and the judgements that were made about me based on them. I also don't want my dd to judge herself by them either.

I also had a bad experience when I first started unschooling my dd and the district threatened us with academic probation because they said that a 6 yo. had to be in 1st grade and couldn't be in Kindergarten (ironically I did that for the reason Meredith mentioned, to give us one extra year before testing). So, there may be some fear from that experience still there, too.

Anyway, thank you and your daughter for the helpful input!

Marla

--- In [email protected], Jenna Robertson <mamamole@...> wrote:
>
> I checked in w/ my 13 yr old on this and asked her what she'd think of me taking a test for her and submitting it w/out telling her.  "That would be weird." 
>  
> As some one relatively new to unschooling, I'm trying to understand how taking a test for your child w/out telling them promotes trust in your relationship.  If you haven't asked your child what they want to do about the test it doesn't show trust in their ability to make choices/be a part of the process of their education.  It would seem that the fear of the school district coming and checking up on you would be more important than the integrity of your relationship with your child, not to mention your own integrity as a person. 
>  
> Jenna
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> "What's the matter with you? All it takes is faith and trust. Oh! And something I forgot. Dust!"......
> " Yep, just a little bit of pixie dust. Now, think of the happiest things. It's the same as having wings."                -  Peter Pan
>  
>  
>  
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Nicole Willoughby

One other option after giving the child info and having their consent is let the child take it without giving them their scores and then if score isnt going to be high enough take yourself.

Also states often have 2 homeschool options ...is that a possibility? Like being under an umbrella school?...there are some unschooling friendly ones.

Nicole 





--- On Mon, 1/4/10, Marla <marla@...> wrote:

From: Marla <marla@...>
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: standardized testing
To: [email protected]
Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 5:55 PM







 









Good point, Jenna! We've discussed testing on and off through the years, but not recently. So, I will ask my daughter what she would like to do and we'll take it from there.



I guess some of my concern was from my own baggage of hating tests and the judgements that were made about me based on them. I also don't want my dd to judge herself by them either.



I also had a bad experience when I first started unschooling my dd and the district threatened us with academic probation because they said that a 6 yo. had to be in 1st grade and couldn't be in Kindergarten (ironically I did that for the reason Meredith mentioned, to give us one extra year before testing). So, there may be some fear from that experience still there, too.



Anyway, thank you and your daughter for the helpful input!



Marla



--- In unschoolingbasics@ yahoogroups. com, Jenna Robertson <mamamole@.. .> wrote:

>

> I checked in w/ my 13 yr old on this and asked her what she'd think of me taking a test for her and submitting it w/out telling her.  "That would be weird." 

>  

> As some one relatively new to unschooling, I'm trying to understand how taking a test for your child w/out telling them promotes trust in your relationship.  If you haven't asked your child what they want to do about the test it doesn't show trust in their ability to make choices/be a part of the process of their education.  It would seem that the fear of the school district coming and checking up on you would be more important than the integrity of your relationship with your child, not to mention your own integrity as a person. 

>  

> Jenna

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> "What's the matter with you? All it takes is faith and trust. Oh! And something I forgot. Dust!"......

> " Yep, just a little bit of pixie dust. Now, think of the happiest things. It's the same as having wings."                -  Peter Pan

>  

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sharon

Thanks to those who responded. One thing I love about RU is thinking outside the box. I never would have thought about option #1 (taking the test myself and submitting it) until I heard someone say it at an unschooling conference.
I appreciate the feedback about not putting my baggage on it. I asked my dtr if she wants to take it and she said, "Sure." I really don't think she has any stress about it, but I just don't like the idea of testing her (again, my baggage).
Marla, I like what you said about making it a game and we can look up answers together, if she wants to. It's all good.
Hugs,
Sharon

Jacque Valdez

Is there some place we can find out for specific states about the testing?
I did not think Arizona homeschoolers had to test but want to be sure as my
twins will be 5th grade next year technically.
Thanks for all the support and ideas you all offer on this list
Jacque

On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 10:31 AM, sharon <1drflmthr@...> wrote:

>
>
> Thanks to those who responded. One thing I love about RU is thinking
> outside the box. I never would have thought about option #1 (taking the test
> myself and submitting it) until I heard someone say it at an unschooling
> conference.
> I appreciate the feedback about not putting my baggage on it. I asked my
> dtr if she wants to take it and she said, "Sure." I really don't think she
> has any stress about it, but I just don't like the idea of testing her
> (again, my baggage).
> Marla, I like what you said about making it a game and we can look up
> answers together, if she wants to. It's all good.
> Hugs,
> Sharon
>
>
>


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Debra Rossing

>Is there some place we can find out for specific states about the
testing?

Google "Arizona homeschool" and you should be able to find a local/state
website on the subject. Or check NHEN.org - they have links to various
states' laws and such. I believe Arizona does not currently require
testing but definitely check it out yourself.

Deb R


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Jacque Valdez

Thank you Deb it does not appear they require it here. When we went down
town and filed our intent to home school the woman said ok you are all
thanks have a nice life I was a bit shocked but relieved to not have to mess
with stuff. It does say we have to fill out our forms every 3 years but I
know others here who have not done it in many more. Thanks again.
Jacque

On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 6:40 AM, Debra Rossing
<debra.rossing@...>wrote:

>
>
> >Is there some place we can find out for specific states about the
> testing?
>
> Google "Arizona homeschool" and you should be able to find a local/state
> website on the subject. Or check NHEN.org - they have links to various
> states' laws and such. I believe Arizona does not currently require
> testing but definitely check it out yourself.
>
> Deb R
>
> **********************************************************************
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
> are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
> the system manager.
>
> This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
> MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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>
>


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plaidpanties666

--- In [email protected], Jacque Valdez <jacque.valdez@...> wrote:
>It does say we have to fill out our forms every 3 years but I
> know others here who have not done it in many more.

Its good to check out the laws and know for sure what's required - and what's not! For instance, while where I live I'm required to turn in an attendence form, with names and addresses, I'm not required to give a phone number or email address - there are lines for these on the form, and I know other moms who have asked the secretary at the school board and have been told "yes, you have to fill out the whole form". In any case, its good to know the particulars and local homeschool groups will do better at letting you know those particulars than a national organization (or international email list ;)). Knowing the specifics, its up to you what to do about them. There are plenty of homeschoolers who don't comply with the laws for reasons that seem good to them, but its a good idea to do that as an actual choice rather than through ignorance.

---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)

Marla

I've known homeschoolers who haven't followed the laws and I've never given it a second thought (I figure to each his own), however, just this week there was a news story about a local couple that was arrested for "child endangerment," for not submitting any paperwork on their 4 children who they were homeschooling for the past 7 years. Here's the link:

http://www.cbs6albany.com/news/district-1269895-school-county.html

Just something to think about. It has become a big media story about what needs to change to make sure homeschoolers are held accountable. Yuck!

Marla



--- In [email protected], "plaidpanties666" <meredith@...> wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected], Jacque Valdez <jacque.valdez@> wrote:
> >It does say we have to fill out our forms every 3 years but I
> > know others here who have not done it in many more.
>
> Its good to check out the laws and know for sure what's required - and what's not! For instance, while where I live I'm required to turn in an attendence form, with names and addresses, I'm not required to give a phone number or email address - there are lines for these on the form, and I know other moms who have asked the secretary at the school board and have been told "yes, you have to fill out the whole form". In any case, its good to know the particulars and local homeschool groups will do better at letting you know those particulars than a national organization (or international email list ;)). Knowing the specifics, its up to you what to do about them. There are plenty of homeschoolers who don't comply with the laws for reasons that seem good to them, but its a good idea to do that as an actual choice rather than through ignorance.
>
> ---Meredith (Mo 8, Ray 16)
>